do about it?

and the gop's dog and pony sho comes to manhattan jim jordan's desperate attempt to attack the man holdin donald trump to account. good evening, i'm mehdi hassan tomorrow morning in a court in wilmington, delaware, fox will finally be put on trial for it lies the media giant is facing landmark defamation case fro dominion voting systems, who allege that fox knowingl pushed false claims that they're voting machines rig th 2020 election. they didn't. and the days and weeks after that election, fox and its hos devoted hours of primetime t coverage to the voting machine company. >> to minion voting systems.

>> dominion voting systems >> dominion voting systems >> dominion voting systems >> dominion voting systems >> dominion voting systems >> dominion. >> dominion voting systems >> dominion voting systems >> now, over two years later fox terrific tucker carlson, and sean hannity, and even found a rupert murdoch me if i themselves on the witnes stand. and the stakes here could no be higher. dominion is seeking 1.6 billio dollars in damages, which coul pose an existential threat t the company. fox, for their part, dispute minions allegations. and statements, fox as the networks and its host were merely reporting on th extraordinary claims o election fraud by then president donald trump and his acolytes, and that dominion' cases an attack on the first amendment. and legal filings, the right-wing network is borrowin a defense originally pioneered by none other than the liberal new york times in fact, fox's defense release entirely on one specific decision from the supreme court,

new york times v. sullivan see, back in 1960, the times printed this full page ad take out by civil rights leaders wh are trying to raise money fo the civil rights movement. the ad describe what it quote, an unprecedented wave of terror, police violence agains peaceful demonstrators i montgomery, alabama. what it described was mostly accurate, but some of th charges, some of the exhibitions turn out not to be true for example, the ads had polic ringed a college campus wher protesters were, his claim was later found to be exaggerated. back in alabama, montgomery, police commissioner l sullivan saw that ad and sue the times, alleging libel. though he was not named in the ad, sullivan said he and his officers had been defamed. the case made its way from alabama all the way to the supreme, where the justice came down with a highl consequential decision in a unanimous ruling, the court ruled in favor of the ne york times, establishing tha in order to prove liable, public figure must show that the personal entity who made the statement was not only mad

a false statement, but the person or entity acted wit actual malice. meeting, and i quote, that the state that was made with knowledge of its falsity, or with reckless disregard of whether it was true or false which brings us back to fox. the judge in that case has already ruled that on ai statements made by the network host about dominion voting machines were in fact false. it is no longer an ope question, there. now it's up to dominion to prove that fox publish those false statements, either knowingly, or with a hig degree of awareness that the were false, the standard set i sullivan for that, we need to know what was happening not only o camera, but behind the scenes. thanks to a trove of unseale documents contained within dominion's lawsuit, we now hav a pretty good idea, text messages, emails from thos court documents show that fo are lowering him sent this text, calling trump lawyer city fog, a complete not, and claiming quote, no one will work with her did it with rudy giuliani.

murdaugh himself also took shots at giuliani, specificall now that infamous press coli for inspiring hair dried dee disaster, calling it stupid an damaging then you have tucker carlson with one text exchange with an employee set of trump, i hat him passionately in a separate text, carlso even called the ex president demonic force, in a destroyer, as you do. now admittedly, i have personally enjoyed sharing i embarrassing exchanges hypocritical exchanges tha were included in court filings but as brian stelter, the medi commentator pointed and vanity fair, calm day one of the trial, tomorrow, none of those text will actually matter that much quote, what will matter of the circumstances around key moments in november, decembe of 2020. and weeks after the election did fox have actual knowledg it was spreading lies abou dominion did it act with, reckles disregard of the truth to that point, here are th messages we should be paying attention to again, revealing those unseale court documents.

for example, shortly after the election, fox eoc and scot sent this email to an executiv blasting the networks fact checking of trump. she did like the fact-checking she called it bad for business murdaugh's in the specialist paul ryan, a board member of fox corporation former house speaker, about one of th networks primetime stars sea hannity, the fox boss said the situation was a wake up call for hannity, who claim had quote, been privately disguste by trump for weeks, but wa scared to lose viewers and then there's this, earlier this week msnbc alex wagne obtained exclusive audio giuliani had been into foxes maria bartiromo that he had no evidence to back up his voting machine conspiracy theories, that conversation took place o november the 8th, 2020 that same day, bought to rom interviewed another one of trump's lawyers, sydney powell have a listen. >> sydney, we talked about the dominion software. i know that there were votin irregularities tell me about that >> let's put it mildly, th

computer glitches could not, and should not have happened a all. that is where the fraud took place, where they were flippin votes in the computer system or adding votes that did not exist. >> dominion alleges that bartiromo was told there was no, there, there when it came to trump's election lies, specifically dominion. and yet, she sat back and di nothing as powell parables lef millions here's a thing, this isn't a problem that's just in foxes past, just last week donal trump was back on the networ pushing his same election lies without any pushback in fact, with the encouragemen of host tucker, i hate trump carlson. and that is why this trial i so important, it is not just a abstract legal case, this goes to the heart of protecting our democracy. we've learned the hard way wit election deniers, the politica pressure doesn't work. shaming doesn't work, an fact-checking sadly, does no

work now it seems the only way we can stop the big lie is in court. let's discuss more with nicole hammer, political historian, who specializes in the media and, conservative media. she was also the director of the rogers centre for th american center vanderbilt university author of partisans, consecutive conservatives wh we may politicians in th 1990s. catherine ross, first amendmen expert, professor of law a george washington university she's author of the book, al right to lie also with us, angelo kara son, president of media mass -- that debunks conservative on air online thank you for joining me nikole, is this demeaning case an existential threat to fox two israeli haitians assures it is to his financial bottom line, and its influence over america politics >> so probably not to it bottom line. it would be about the same siz judgment as alec jones faced for his own defamation case in the sandy hook cases, and that

for jones is going to be existential. for fox, this represents about half of three months income. so they will still be around but it does i think, have some real ramifications for fox not necessarily in the judgmen itself, but in all of thos behind the scenes emails, an messages, and text that even talking about. it exposes, and gives evidence for something that fox has bee saying for a long time, that there was a well of church and state between news an opinion, that clearly is not the case >> angelo, you've been fox watching for years, documentin the lies did you ever think it woul come to this, where we are seeing the inner working of th networks say one thing on air, and then another to each other in private >> i think, eventually, that i the part that i find remarkabl about this entire thing is that, everything we are seeing about how they conduct themselves of the million, i think this is

the thing that everyone need to let seep in every single interacts tha they've had, all these emails, all these communications, th intentional nippy latium, none of it seemed abnormal. not a single response said well that's a different thing, that is new for me, i don' know how to react when the box tells me a liar stop fact-checking things that is a significant part sort of to your question, it demonstrates that this is norm for them. so what we get is a keyhole, about how fox operates in ou daily basis, we're just gettin on one topic this is inevitable this is the same thing after the phone hacking scandal, onc you pierce that veil, you se into fox news that is rotten t the core, they are organized around getting money, but also power. if the ends justify the means, you know once you get under th hood is going to be pretty dirty. >> looks pretty dirty from where i'm sitting, but i'm n lawyer catherine, you are a lawyer, your law professor fox as the first minut protects them, the sulliva ruling protects them does it in this case defamation cases are

notoriously or to prove, and when >> first, mattie, i have t thank you not just for havin me on for your excellent introduction, that was the perfect summary of sullivan, and why it is so important so, in my view, if this case does not satisfy the sulliva standard of actual malice, i other words, knowledge that th statement is false, or reckles disregard for the truth, and ignoring what would caus reasonable people to pause and find out, then no case wil ever meet the sullivan standard so, if we are to have a mean of pursuing defamation against news organizations, if w consider fox a new organization, and this cas doesn't mean we have nothing left and defamation law of a public figures, and matters of public interest. this is an extraordinary case, we could barely imagined facts

like this, including those behind the scenes, communications because most people are a lo more careful with this say, an one risk is, that medi organizations like fox i they're already like fox wil become more cautious in th dialogue between the courts an the people who need to be more careful. but right now we have an extraordinary example and think there could not be a stronger case by dominion. >> well i only refer to it i fox, and that tells you abou whether i think it's news or not. nicole, do fox viewers have an idea what is going on? i mean, they are not being tol about on the network they watc interest every night, how abou conservative media more broadly? how close are the newsmax, i of oann's paying attention >> so far they are not spendin a ton of time looking at it certainly the secede through, in the sense that there ar conversations happening here and there are conservative radio, conservative podcasts but it really isn't somethin

that is getting a lot of attention, or a lot of time, the kind of debunking of all o these election lies is not something they're spending a lot of time on now oan, and newsmax have thei own things to be concerned about when it comes to dominio suing networks for spreading election falsehoods, but so fa it's just not something that i taking up a lot of space i conservative media >> angelo, you posted fastening threat on twitte expanding something else going on the back on this tomorrow fox's carriage run unadilla sh oceans, aka how much money fox makes for being on cable kenya's very briefly explain t our viewers why this case coul affect those negotiations, why it matters so much to foxe bottom line? >> yeah sure a part of the reason why fox news makes as much money a they do is because they have got the highest cable carriage rates, amongst any cable new channel, they are most secon most expensive channel on ever once, capabilities pianist everyone on basic cable. that is because basically afte glenn beckett fired for losing

all of his advertisers, fo news had a sort of shift i their business model, and they did not want to be a commercia tv channel that was beholden t what was commercially viable what advertisers wanted. they leverage their audience t call their cable companies all the time, they lie to thei companies, they said uk become is about to take fox news away from, you they are censoring us, they have a liberal agenda, yo had better call. and basically for the last decade fox news has been getting their audience t increase everybody in th country's cable rates by artificially inflating the demand for fox news. this has nothing to do wit viewership, it has everythin to do with the sort of energ that - >> and if they lose this trial if they lose this case that' going to affect those surely >> oh without a doubt. the negotiations are happening this month the same time that they're going to be in court, the cabl companies going have to decide whether or not they want t give fox news significantl more money it's going to be a tough sell, i skating uphill >> catherine, last word to you if you are the dominion lawyer

in court tomorrow, what on text or email or behind th scenes conversation was really focusing on to show malice t that jury? >> i like the fact they ar asking for one example, becaus what we've lost sight of her is that because there are so many examples all you have t do for defamation is one time, you don't need a pattern so, there is such an abundance of damning statements, it migh be when maria bartell lomo sai to sydney powell i know that there were compute irregularities, and then she spend her -- i know is a very far distanc from foxes bra for defense which the judge has disallowed we were just letting peopl express what they thought. that is not what happened. >> it is a clip we playe

earlier, it we fasteners the what happens in court this week nicole, ross, angelo thank you for setting the scene fo tomorrow from viewers tomorrow morning thank you so much. coming up, to declare or not t declare? to disclose, or not to disclose? these are questions justic clarence thomas has a histor of struggling with the newest revelation in his own ethical saga, that i coming up after a break, do no go away. tle. it cleans better, and doesn't leave behind irritating residues. and it's gentle on her skin. case, closed! it's gotta be tide.

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have learned supreme court justice clarence thomas has a, taken a bunch of luxur holidays from a billionair donor which he did not declare according to reporting fro propublica be, that same donor about hi and his mother's home, a fac thomas also did not declar clearly in violation of th law. and see, that he is been

declaring income from a real the state from that has no existed since 2006, accordin to reporting today from th washington post. is it anyone or not there ar now calls for clarence thoma to appear in for the senat judiciary community, even be subpoenaed by them if need be? and yes, there is a preceden for submitting supreme court justices in 1953, the house on american activities committee subpoenae justice tom clark. so why not thomas? what happened to accountability? joining me now to discuss al of this is mark joseph stern senior writer at slate coverin the courts in the law, and brittany packnett cunningham nbc political analyst. thank you both for joining me. britney, i want to start wit you in this report from th washington post today. the article quotes that this misstatement is among a series of areas of missions tha thomas is made of financia disclosure forms people make errors when it comes to forms, they do. but at this point, doe clarence thomas deserve th benefit of the doubt he's clear not being transparent, or honest about his finances, and financia disclosures overall?

>> absolutely not. the point that you made, mary, may this is not an aberration. this is the pattern, this is a least the fifth time since 201 that he has been found to be i ethical violation, potentially in violation of the law. and in 2011, he does explain i away that he misunderstood the form sure, that happens, but thes are forums that have bee filled up by people for decade prior, and decades since not only will see just able to explain it away, he's been abl to keep his seat irrespectiv of this pattern. if it is this easy to keep scamming the american people during a lifetime appointmen in a seat that has to be confirmed by the full senate, don't understand how we ar supposed to continue to have trust in this iteration of the court, or the institutio itself because this isn't just abou justice thomas's malfeasance this is about being able to go this long and engage in this

kind of pattern for so long, without any kind o accountability or impeachment. it is difficult for th american people to express a level of trust in an institution that continues t allow somebody to make terribl policies from the bench, and then to be unethical about it. >> but they don't trust th supreme court, the trust ratings are falling by recor levels, record lows. mark, the washington post piec also says that thomas received a $750,000 from this defense firm, ginger limited partnership, defunct since 2006 in comparison, his salary this year's $285,000. so word we think all that extr money is coming from again, as it isn't a typo, a filing error, or is this, like the house said, something much bigger potential violation of the law >> well it's very clear that justice thomas is raking i money from this particular investment, which makes it all the more concerning that he wa misreporting them on these forms. we should be clear the kind of forms that hundreds of

thousands of government worker have to fill out, and most people sweat the details on great deal, because they kno that there are serious penalties for doing it wrong even a minor miss statement ca be job ending unless you are supreme court justice. but i think what we are seeing here is, again, the fact tha clarence thomas wants to liv the life of a super wealthy la firm partner, or gop activists or whatever. the kind of guys he hangs ou with, but he is on a publi servant salary yes it still $300, 000, but fo him he probably thinks i a getting dramatically underpaid so he is trying to find ways t make up that gap sometimes he takes a private jet, owned by his friend around the country sometimes he allows his friend to purchase property and spruc it up, potentially inflate values sometimes he has a stake i these very questionabl investments that here bringing lots of money that he did no disclose properly. all of it is extremely conservative concerning for public servant who is supposed to be so trustworthy

we don't need a coat of ethics for him. >> a public servant who is supposed to be one of the to nine legal minds in the entire country, but cannot filleted for murder centrally ethic rules are? that's funny brittani, the undisclosed seal the homey partly owned, an that his mother carried on living and after his billionaire power harlan cro bought it. it looks like a clear violatio of the law we are a lot of democrat saying these days that n former president should be above the law, but shouldn't know sitting core suprem justice be above it either shouldn't democrats are goin after the clarence thomas' misdeeds much harder than they are? >> i absolutely believe they should look, there is a necessity o precedent being set here we have to make sure that just like donald trump is not above the law, that no supreme court justice, no matter who confirmed them or what president nominated them they should not be above the law either, because if they are, how can we actually trust them to judge the law, and measur the actions in the lives o americans against th constitution but i look at clarence thoma

as somebody who, in my opinion never should've been on th bench in the first place we should not even be talkin about this investigation because he should have bee impeachment defended that ginn thomas, his wife, was workin so hard to overturn th election, and emailing 20 some odd republicans in arizona trying to get them to overturn illegal election, right? in my opinion a narrative on the bench in the first place i we are to believe professo anita hill with that i absolutely do. here is someone who was show themselves to be continuousl untrustworthy, and there is no reason why the democrats, an anybody who values democracy shouldn't be going after him until this thing is fully over >> last quick word to you mark we are hearing different thing from different people. michael to mask in the new republics have subpoenaed him, pushing for the senate judiciary community, a frien of the show dean abdullah says special counsel. aoc says impeachment what is the right way to encountered thomas clarence? >> we started with a hearing o

a subpoenas a good first step. we have to remember that clarence thomas has been 3 years choosing all of th environments in which sh speaks choosing what's questions he has, asked choosing what audiences before him he has been able to massage, and finance his public image s perfectly up until this point, because he has absolut control. trying to get him before a skeptical senate panel requiring him to answe questions honestly under oath, where he hasn't approved the questions beforehand, where he does have an obligation to the truth. that would be his firs experience doing that since hi confirmation, and i think it would be a very healthy firs start. articles of impeachment migh come after that, it might be a good way to try to force him before the committee if he refuses to testify, but this i not something that democrats should pass off to the judicia conference, this fall squarely within their jurisdiction an they need to act now >> they also do to fully function senate judiciar committee which they don't hav because of dan feinstein, bu that's the story for their day we're moving on to something else mark, brittani please stick around, we're going to carry on this discussion after

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on dangerous laws that further erode gun safety our communities need, an deserve better in louisville, two people were killed and four wounded in a mass shooting at a crowded park there were no suspect in custody immediately after that shooting,and police aske anyone with information to contact investigators. the incident comes less than a week after six people were killed in a louisville ban shooting and in dadeville, four peopl dead 28 injured after a mass shooting at a teenager's birthday party police did not say if an suspects were in custody, bu did say there is no curren public safety risk from that shooting more on the mehdi hassan show, right after the short break fo you. actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. (vo) with every generation, gamechanger for my patients- the subaru forester has been a leader in crash safety,

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the one italy is unclear, we will bring you more informatio on this developing story as we get it now, we often hear fro republicans how they are all about states rights, and against big government, except when they are not. how stitches region jordan's leading his committee to a field hearing in new york city tomorrow, a community 500 mile away from his own district t intimidate, basically, a local elected prosecutor what was this prosecutor's crime, his offense going after the gop's cult leader, former president donal j trump. for that, jordan's minions are doing everything they can to interfere with manhattan d.a alvin bragg's case against trump. bragg tried to fight back by suing jordan, and asking a judge to block a subpoena from jordan seeing testimony from former assistant va who worked on the trump of manhattan. the judge, a trump appointee declined his request let's be clear, what we ar seeing here looks like up truc strain, looks like intimidatio from a publicans in congress and it's all in the service of the twice impeached and no

indicted ex host of th apprentice let's bring back my panel, brittani and mark are stil with me. brittani, this is what the gop has been reduced to, attacking dea bragg as a soros funde prosecutor, trump calling hi an animal. bragg is now getting death threats, and yet republicans don't care, they're up in th head with political stunt it's like this field hearing in new york tomorrow. >> i mean, they reduce themselves to this right this is a group of people wh always says one thing and does another, and playing political games when it comes to issue of violence, instead o addressing access to guns an wage stagnation, the thing that actually caused crime a the roots, they are not al about that they want to make sure t express some kind of retribution for the guy who is currently tanking their party. the idea that they would tak on this kind of retributio against somebody who has bee trying to actually ensure level of safety for the grea

state of new york, i think, is something to you for us to pay critical attention two they got molly whopped i 2022, and they're making sur they're playing all the righ political games, and making al the political news for their base ahead of 2024 that's all this is, it i incredibly dangerous >> mark, dea brags suit agains jordan was thrown at me a trum judge. but how else do we describ this behavior from the jim jordan gop led house judiciary committee, other tha intimidation and obstruction >> i mean harassment could als work here. using the courts, and here at trump appointed judge to try t harass the lawfully electe district attorney. i think it is especially ironi because of course republican as you know the talk about federalism, states rights. we'll hear the allegation is that donald trump violated state law, and it is the sovereign states authority t prosecute that you see republicans complaining, oh world dea bragg he's electe

he took contributions hi political, here's a news flash virtually all state leve prosecutors are elected. they are all politicians so if the line here is tha former presidents cannot b prosecuted by elected stat prosecutors, when it reall translates to is that al former presidents have total impunity when they violate state law. that is not division o federalism that the founders laid out the constitution, and i don't think it's when th courts will ultimately accept. >> and of course is a bigger issue here, brittani you can't turn on fox for example withou hearing or dangerous blue bi cities like new york are and yet here is a char comparing new york city's crim rate per capita in 2021, wit those in bakersfield california, which just happens to be the home of speaker kevi mccarthy murder rate, burglaries higher in bakersfield than in new york so by their own logic, by th gop's logic, should democrat on the house judiciary committee go bakersfield nex and hold a hearing on thei

crime rate >> the democrats aren't gonn do that because they'r actually trying to focus on th thing that are going to trul keep communities safe, and not police kind of political games at the gop avenue some selve to if we are talking about logic, i generally do not apply tha to this area of the republican party. look, ted scott is havin trouble stringing together a coherent sentence abou abortion, kentucky is runnin gop candidates that want t close the department o education as opposed t worrying about the two mas shootings they jab had in just a matter of mere days, and the tennessee leader, the go leader of the tennessee hous is, allegedly, having an affair, right? and he supposed to be leadin the party of family values i his state while these oustin people who are protestin against gun violence so i need the gop to go an focus on something that matters, because they have plenty t worry about. it's not about theatrical, and trying to defend somebody who, as you said, is a cult leader.

gone violence just past ca crashes as the number on killer of american young people, and we have to make sure tha if you are actually going to claim to be the party of famil values, that you put, as i sai yesterday, your policy where your mouth is. be the party of family value that you said that you are because this is not it >> because there are so many gop controversies around the country that i tried in vallow my day job, including out of tennessee, i didn't actually know about the one you mentioned, the alleged scandal in tennessee and all of speaker. i assume he denies, it we don' know about that, interest in the raids that i have all of a speaker's case undergo two of the two democrats who were expelled an came back. mark, what happens when foll willis maybe indict trump in fulton county, georgia does jim jordan take us fiel trip wrote to georgia next t intimidate that the? where does an end, how does system function like this? >> well, the system can' function like this, and i thin it's part of the point here. i do think jordan will go down

to fulton county and try t allege that this is anothe partisan prosecution, a witc hunt and he'll trot out all these crime statistics without acknowledging that so many members of the house gop conference district with far higher crime if they really want to address those issues, they could resig from the house and run for state senate, or state house and try to pass real gun control laws, and reform the laws that are allowing these mass shootings, and riva violence but i think that's a incredibly dangerous precedent how many times through souther last decade, i know? but this is about blocking states sovereign ability t enforce their laws against criminals who violate him, i is about creating impunity for a subset of republican elite to flout the law that is not line order, it is real threat, i think, to federalism, and to thi country's law enforcemen system if anybody in the republican party really wants to stand up for the police, for la enforcement, they should b

defending these prosecutor because police in la enforcement who are carrying out their orders and makin sure these cases run smoothly. >> mark joseph stern, thank yo as ever for analysis brittani, i need you to stic on for one more segment, because next, the gop arrest i to defend, and even pardon a man who we just found guilty o murdering a protester. and it turns out to be, shoc or, a racist stick around it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say, ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. hey, man. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance. so you only pay for what you need! whoo! we gotta go again. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ moving forward with node- positive breast cancer is overwhelming. but i never just found my way; i made it. and did all i could to prevent recurrence.

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friday april the 7th, a u.s. army started name daniel perry was found guilty of murderin black life matter proteste garret foster at a demonstration in austin, texas in the summer of 2020. perry shot falls for multipl times, and a jury of his peers deliberated for 17 hours before coming to unanimous guilty verdict and yet, the very next day after fox's tucker carlson scheme to daniel perry's defense on his primetime show, the very next day texas go

governor greg abbott announced he was working as lovely a texas law allows regarding the pardon of sergeant perry the pardon republicans like marjori taylor green, in jackson defending perry and demandin he be let go gop congressman dan crenshaw said, thank god that perry was on course for a pardon, an even said he should also b compensated. daniel perry, new hero of th gop, there are new culebra, th new rittenhouse. put aside to the fact that unlike kyle rittenhouse, danya perry was found guilty o murder in a case where the facts were pretty clear, he drove through a red light into a crowd of bl protester, and opened fire multiple times to yes, was legally an openly carrying a ak-47, but according t witnesses did not have i pointed at perry so perry was not acting in self-defense, he was not standing his ground. here is what we've learned about daniel perry since the guilty verdict since republicans have falle over one another to defend him according to 76 pages of

documents unsealed by the judg last week, and shared lombardi houston chronicle perry sent private messages fo years containing racist memes, and defending the killing of protesters and muslims for example in a 2019 message, perry wrote, it's too bad we can't get paid for hunting muslims in europe. in june 2020, he reported blac lives matter protesters as monkeys and said, i am a racis because i do not agree wit people acting like animals a the zoo. now, when these texts an social media posts came ou last week, i initially photo ourself, so it gop maybe the should have waited a bit befor turning this odious sky into their hero, their new martyr but now i am thinking sadly, the statements from perry, thi clear evidence of his racism and his violent hatred towards minorities will just make hi more popular in right-wing circles, not less. given the bigoted state of the modern gop brittani pat nick, coming in who is still with me brittani have got to ask, mean, is it the case that th

gop are willing, they're supposed to be the party of la or, or the tough on crime party, yet they're defending a violent, racist murderer. is it the case, if you kil people who the gop don't like, don't sympathize with, they'll defend you and it's that simple >> sadly it is that simple i think that we have all com to realize, whether we knew it or not, whether we want to believe it or not, that the go does not care about bein hypocrites if they did, then else calling on hypocrites all the time would have actually shifte their operations, their beliefs, and their strategy instead what happens is they doubled down, they actuall entrenched themselves deeper i their hatred, especially o minoritized, and marginalize people this kind of behavior is the kind of behavior we saw with kyle rittenhouse, but i will take you back even further because i remember the numbe of fund-raisers and seller about tory dinners that were hosted for police officers who killed black people.

i remember, specifically, when the nra did not come out o behalf of black victims wh were armed in open carry states, but were still killed by the police so this kind of hypocrisy is sadly consistent with the gop, and as long as the groups of people like police, like racis vigilantes, just like garrett, are willing to do the work o the gop by carrying out thei power orders, then they ar okay with being hypocrites they are okay with those lives being lost they are okay with making sure that their power is held by an means necessary. >> indeed, by any mean necessary. even if that means defending our like daniel perry. brittani panic cunningham, thank you for your analysi tonight, i appreciate it >> thank you >> coming up next hour with man moody john leguizamo o discusses the premier of his new six-part series, leguizamo does america celebrating latinos across the country stacey plaskett will discuss

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as ever, we'll be back her next sunday at 8 pm eastern. you cannot find the show on th msnbc hub on peacock

now, let's turn to handed over to my good friend eamonn amen, before i go, i love doin tough interviews with people i power. i wrote a book about it, as yo know to watch car crash interview where the interviewer gets owned by the interview we, it' painful for me yet, here we have lesley stahl interview marjorie taylo greene two weeks ago, and this week, james clayto interviewing elon musk both were disastrous have a watch >> we fact checked before i go to this interview. >> have you've fact-checked al my statements from kindergarte through 12th grade and college and as i paid my taxes and never broke a law? i got a few speeding tickets we need to talk about those two? because i think where you're going down is the same attacks that people of attacked me wit over and over and over >> he must of at some poin seen - i'm asking for an example. >> right

and i'm saying - >> by then i say you don't kno you talk about >> really? >> yes, because you can't give a single example of hatefu conduct. not even one tweet and yet -- >> we'll, that's a false what i claimed was there are many organizations that sa that that kind of informatio is on the rise whether -- >> what those two awful clip tell me, ayman, it's too man in our liberal mania is that too many people have learned nothing from the era of trum and are getting steam rolled b their bad faith interviewees that bbc reporter, ayman, wa given 20 minutes notice by mus for that interview he shouldn't of agreed to it i he wasn't prepared wit followups, specific examples in 20 minutes. the mosques and mtg's of thi world love doing week an

credulous interviews like that don't they >> not only do they love it. you know what's so telling about these interviewers, mehdi? all you have to do is look a how elon musk and marjorie taylor greene reacted to those interviews after to know how they went. elon tweeted out, the bb interview last week wa exceptional and illustrating why you cannot rely on the media for truth. and for her part, green, who's never said anything nice about anyone in the mainstream media suddenly heaped praise o lesley stahl, saying that sh respects her even if she disagrees with her on some o these issues like suggesting nancy pelosi should be executed, or jewis space lasers - i mean, that's one thing to se this happen on fox, or someone like donald trump is given hours on and to spew his lie by stenographers like tucker carlsen, but it is s disheartening when you see far-right extremists lik greene or --

greene or disingenuous actor like musk -- no pushback to expose them how harmful they are to free speec and democracy. i said the staffing one in the media who might be watching, and to your point, mehdi, th get is never more importan than the content of th interview. if not prepared, don't do th interview just to boast that you got an exclusive >> you hear. well said. i totally agree. >> mehdi, great show is always great to see you, enjoy th rest of your evening off >> coming up on ayman, som breaking developments on the dominion. trial -- push back one day. what, if anything might that indicate, and wha will happen when dominio finally gets its day in court? plus, republicans hold a sha hearing against alvin bragg. i'll speak with democratic congresswoman stacey plasket