the reputation of chief justic john roberts who has so far no responded to the pressures t do something about all of this mark joseph, thank you so much always a proud leisure always appreciate your insights that's all in on this monday night. the rachel maddow show start right now. good evening, rachel >> much upgraded, nice to se insights that is "all in" on this monday night. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening

>> ayman, nice to see you. thanks at home for joining us. so if you got in your car and you drove out of oklahoma city, you drove southeast out of oklahoma city about four hours, before you left oklahoma state limits, before you crossed the border, the last place you would hit is mccurtain county, oklahoma you can see it on the map in the farthest southeast corner of the great state of oklahoma. it borders arkansas to the east and borders texas to the south and in mccurtain county, in that part of oklahoma, the local newspaper there fittingly is called "the mccurtain gazette-news" and "the mccurtain gazette news" is a print only newspaper. if you want to read its reporting it's like the good old days, you have to wait each week until the hard copy of the paper hits your doorstep and then you can see what they've reported on now, like all good local news outlets online or in print or both, the staff at "the

mccurtain gazette-news" make it their business to make sure they are diligently covering the local government in their corner of oklahoma, so they're the people who show up to things like, you know, county commissioner meetings where the agenda is buying equipment for the local volunteer fire department or road repairs or stuff like that. at the end of the day these local reporters see it -- see it as their job to make sure that local citizens know what their local government is doing. and also as sort of the flip side of that same coin, they're making sure that the local government in that area, county officials in that part of oklahoma, they're held accountable for what they do so making sure citizens are informed, making sure that local officials know that everybody knows what they're doing, it means covering a lot of these, you know, mundane comings and goingings of local governance. it means a lot of shoe leather and going to a lot of often boring meetings.

the thing is, though, every once in a while despite its day-to-day mundane character at the best of times, every once in a while reporting of that character, reporting like that turns up something that is not at all mundane and that is what has just happened in mccurtain county, oklahoma last month on march 6th the mccurtain county commission held one of their normal meetings which are usually boring affairs for all the right reasons. but staff from "the mccurtain gazette-news" went to that meeting to cover it, and after the meeting the longtime publisher of the paper, bruce willingham decided he was going to do something out of the ordinary he decided to leave a voice activated recorder inside the room where the commission meets and the reason he did that is because he suspected that the county commission in mccurtain

county was continuing to do county business after the meeting had ended, and that would have been in violation of the state's open meeting act this publisher from a local paper essentially thought that the commission was trying to do business affecting the people of the county without looping the public in to what they were doing and that is something that is not allowed under state law, so this publisher, bruce willingham, he made sure what he was doing was on the up and up when he left that recorder and told the associated press i talked on two different occasions to our attorneys to make sure i wasn't doing anything illegal but he left the recorder there it's voice activated and then he went back and collected it and when he collected that recorder he did discovered there was a lot more going on after the close of the county commission meeting, more than just the violation of the oklahoma open meeting act that he had suspected here is how "the mckurtening

gazette-news" headlined it, on their front page this week, quote, county officials discuss killing and burying gazette reporters. there's an audio recording the audio of this conversation was released this winter by "the mccurtain gazette-news" and it is horrifying. in the audio recording you can hear the county sheriff talking to another official from the sheriff's office as well as the local county commissioner and it appears that the officials are sort of bluntly talking amongst themselves about killing the publisher of the local newspaper, bruce willingham, and his son, yes, who also works as a reporter for "the mccurtain gazette news." this is apparently due to the fact that the paper has

published unfavorable stories about the sheriff's office in the past, but regardless of what caused any sort of bad will here, the conversation that follows is disturbing. so if you don't want to hear it, now is your chance to hit pause or turn me off but here we go here it is >> they're insignificant in my life they bring -- >> the old saying is -- >> what goes around goes around. >> it will, i told you it will i know where two big deep holes are here >> i know where two big deep holes are if you ever need them. well, i've got an excavator. well, these were already predug as if what they were saying was not clear enough they also discussed the ins and outs of what it would take to hire a hit man to do the job. >> but the thing of it is, you know -- >> we actually - >> i have known two or three hit men. would cut no [ bleep ] mercy in louisiana because this is all mafia around --

>> yeah, but here's the reality. if a hair on his wife's head, chris willingham's head, or any of those people that really were behind all that, if the hair on their heads got touched by anybody, who would be the bad guys >> who would be blamed for it? >> yeah. >> i've known two or three hit men. they're very quiet guys. they would cut no bleeping mercy. oh, yeah but if a hair on his wife's head, the reporter's wife's head was touched -- in another part of the recording a voice identified as the county commissioner laments the fact that lynchings are no longer common practice, that is no longer something you're allowed to do. >> i heard it the other day i said 12 or -- let's get 20 they don't have a goddamn clue

what they're getting into. i'm gone that tell you something if we was back in the day you take a damn black guy and whoop them -- >> i know. >> take them down to mud creek and hang them up with a damn rope but you can't do that anymore. they got more rights than we do. >> you take a damn black guy and whoop their ass and throw them in the cell. now it's not like that anymore i know, take them down to the mud creek and hang them up with a damn rope. but you can't do that anymore. they got more damn rights than we do. they got more rights than we got. nbc news has not independently verified this audio. we reached out to the sheriff's office by phone. they told us they had no comment at this time and reached out to the county commissioner who apparently has his voice on that tape we have not heard back from him. but we will tell you certainly everybody in the state of oklahoma appears to be taking

this matter rather seriously the publisher of the newspaper says he's turned over these audio recordings to the fbi and to the oklahoma attorney general's office and says he's also already had several conversations with federal investigators. the governor of the state of oklahoma, kevin stitt, has called on the officials who were heard on these recordings to resign again, the governor is call on these county officials to resign he's also asking the oklahoma bureau of investigation to look into this matter the state representative for the area has also demanded that the sheriff resign and others resign the local mayor has also demanded these resignations. look at this this morning more than 100 people gathered outside the mccurtain county sheriff's office to protest and to demand that these officials leave their post over these racist and violent comments talking about how they wished they could lynch people like you could back in the day.

they wish you could whoop people's ass and throw them in the cell you can't do that anymore. they got more rights than we got now. and mccurtain county, oklahoma, is not the only place dealing with a local upheaval that is now making national news we're also keeping an eye on akron, ohio, 25-year-old man named jayland walker, no criminal record. one traffic ticket, was driving his car last june, akron police said mr. walker's car had a broken license plate light because of that they tried to pull him over according to police, walker did not stop. police say walker fired a single shot from his vehicle. he exited his car and began to run away, police officers chased after him and then they shot at him. they shot at him dozens of times. they hit him dozens of times akron police have released body cam footage of this incident

i will warn you before i play it, this video is not for everyone if you do not want to see this, i'll give you again once again a chance to look away or hit mute. but here it is [ sirens ] [ gunshots ] >> we paused the video there but the audio continues. each one of those pops you hear in the audio is a shot fired by police eight different police officers fired a total of 94 bullets. 94 bullets fired at one man. they hit him in the heart, the lungs, the liver, the intestines, they broke his rib, jaw, both his leg, in all they hit him with bullets 46 different times. he died on the spot and then as he laid there dead they handcuffed him police say the reason they shot and killed jayland walker is because he reached for his waistband as if he were about to

shoot them that would have been impossible after they killed him. they say the gun the police he used to fire that single shot from the car, that gun was still in his car, which means he was unarmed when they fired nearly 100 bullets at him and put 46 bullets into his body. again, and then handcuffed him when he laid dead on the ground having been shot 46 times. after jayland walker was shot and killed in akron the ohio attorney general's office led an investigation into the incident, a special grand jury was then impaneled to determine whether charges should be brought against the eight police officers who shot at mr. walker. today that special grand jury delivered their decision, the grand jury determined that those eight officers who killed jayland walker were justified in that use of force. and there will will be no criminal charges the identities of all eight officers will continue to remain anonymous. they will all stay employed by the akron, ohio, police department

over the summer in the immediate wake of the shooting the city of akron erupted into large ongoing protests for days to protest this killing given that history, given the public's previous visceral reaction to this case, before the grand jury's decision was even announced today authorities began to lock down the city of akron. police barricades were set up around the courthouse. city hall had its windows boarded up schools and universities canceled in-person classes so far tonight in akron things are quiet. this was just before sundown outside the akron courthouse four protesters who were reportedly saying, no justice, no peace keeping an eye on akron tonight and in the coming days, to see how that story about jayland walker develops. we also have our eyes tonight on the great city of kansas city, missouri on thursday this past week a 16-year-old boy was sent out by his mom to go pick up his two

younger brothers, his two younger brothers had been at a friend's house, but this young man, 16-year-old young man, his name is ralph. he got confused by the address he accidentally rang the doorbell at the wrong house on a nearby street, one street over, he was going to what he thought was the house where his younger twin brothers were staying with a friend he went by accident to the wrong house on a neighboring street and an 85-year-old white man who lived at that house answered the door, and according to court documents when the man saw 16-year-old ralph yarl on his doorstep, he shot him twice, once in the head and once in the arm. according to prosecutors ralph yarl never entered the man's home he was shot through the glass of the front door for the first shot miraculously ralph yarl survived he got up and ran away he reportedly had to go to three

different homes before someone agreed to help him mr. yarl has been in the hospital since thursday night but he was discharged this afternoon. he is now at his home recovering his mom is a nurse and she's been caring for him. the man who shot him allegedly first through his glass front door and then opening the door shooting him again while he laid on the porch, that man was taken into police custody on thursday night, the night the shooting happened but police let him go just hours later there were protests in kansas city over the weekend pressuring kansas city officials to take the man back into custody to file some kind of charges against him. protesters marched to the neighborhood where young ralph yarl was shot. they stood in the road they chanted justice for all justice for all. [ crowd chanting ] tonight, monday night, four days after the shooting took place the county prosecutor announced that the man who shot ralph yarl will be charged in the shooting. he'll be charged with two felony counts including first degree

assault. when the prosecutor announced the charges he said there was, quote, a racial component to the case the mayor of kansas city said he is relieved to see what he's called a first step toward justice for young ralph yarl but also expressed what could only be described as exasperation at what the shooting represents for black people living in this country. he said, quote, you've heard about driving while black. you've heard about all the other issues that black people confront in life can you not knock on the door while black? it's almost like you can't exist. joining us now is the mayor of kansas city, missouri, quinton lucas. mr. mayor, thank you so much for being here i know this is a difficult time for your city. >> it's good to be with you. >> first let me just ask you if i explained that in a way which is in keeping with your understanding of these events,

have i got anything wrong or is there anything important i left out here >> you know, i've read the probable cause charging statement and probably just the most heinous part is that the gentleman who shot -- i shouldn't say gentleman, just the criminal, the defendant, an 85-year-old man shot because he claimed he was scared of this black teenager and i say a black teenage boy, not because of an insult, more because of the fact that this is a kid, this is a kid who was sent out by his mother to pick up his younger brothers the sort of thing that should be normal and routine and, indeed, is and in our community tragically last week, it was something that could have taken this boy's life. >> this young man is accomplished he's a musician. the superintendent of north kansas city schools today said he's an excellent student, maintains a stellar gpa while taking college level courses lots of people going on about his talent as a musician, his affiliation with the

metropolitan youth orchestra and the marching band. can you tell us anything about his condition and how he and his family are doing >> i talked to his mother today. she is a strong woman. i could tell during our time just visiting, the last several days i know have been overwhelming for them. so many people who have reached out, so many people who in support but also a number of questions, questions about why, why delay in charges i know that's a question that's come up. why and how can something like this happen. and the neighborhood in kansas city, which is predominantly white, this question that i know many black parents face and black people generally they move there because of good schools, because of good opportunities. but what do you lose in exchange does your child, do you lose your humanity in exchange just from existing while black in certain areas? what we need to work on in kansas city and i would say nationwide after this is how do we make sure that we get first

of all that it's clear that this is not right, that this is not something that's accepted and this fear, this fear of black youth, of black people, you talked about it through the entire show is something that we need to confront and call out and address and we need to not have the narrative just be state legislators against diversity training including in my own state but instead frankly people recognizing the bias that lives within so many of them, so we don't see things like this again and again. >> one of the things that i've seen discussed in the wake of this shooting is the so-called stand your ground law, which missouri's had for a number of years now, since i believe 2016. is there any sense in which that stand your ground law is implicated here? obviously this is a gun crime. if this is being prosecuted as a crime it is a shooting that was only able to exist because of the gun in the owner's

possession but the way you are allowed to use your weapon is governed according to a law designed effectively to prevent home invasion. is something like that going to be implicated here in terms of this young man having rung the doorbell posing no threat to this family or this home, but nevertheless those sorts of laws are seen in other places having muddied the waters around encounters like this that end in shootings. >> we have seen the gun lobby change what is core common sense. i said this earlier but i'll repeat it again, if this is the sort of thing where stand your ground can be enforced then every u.s. postal worker, every amazon delivery person, every pizza delivery person, every girl scout volunteer, anybody knocking on your door now becomes somebody who is subject to be shot and i think particularly and i say this as not just a mayor, not just as a person in this community but as a black man and a black father to recognize the additional risk

that people of color, that black people disproportionately will face because of defenses like this, it concerns me greatly so i do hope that this is a case where there is a conviction, but more than that, i hope and i pray, i don't know if it will happen but that some of these legislatures that allowed guns to be used everywhere and any situation finally say, you know what, this is a kid. this is a good kid who did not deserve this and what their fetishization of gun laws have done, this expansion of gun rights and protections so people are using them outside their cars and homes and now standing inside his home because he was just scared of a black person at his door, this needs to be pushed back against so we actually have responsible common sense laws that aren't threatening the lives of our sons and daughters in our community. >> mayor of the great city of kansas city, quinton lucas, mr. mayor, i know this is a difficult time for your city thank you for taking time to be

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there's a worlds collide kind of moment in the news a quick piece of tape. the first guy you will see in this is someone you will recognize. you might recognize what he looks like

you will definitely recognize his voice. you'll remember him from the january 6th investigation and their televised hearings his name is rusty bowers, you'll remember him in -- from our national drama over the past couple of years in that crucible moment when we were deciding if we would stick with elections or if maybe we won't do that anymore when the outgoing president was calling officials around the country telling them to throw out the election results and just keep him in power instead. you will remember rusty bowers, he was the republican leader of the arizona house of representatives, and he got that pressure from former president trump. he got so much pressure to throw out the election results, he got the kind of pressure that turns coal into diamonds, but rusty bowers stood up to it. he didn't do it. and, you know, whatever else there is to know about rusty bowers in arizona as a political figure and a man, he would not throw out the election results from arizona when donald trump demanded that he do it

and as a consequence rusty bowers, well, a, was thrown out of office by arizona republicans, they couldn't stand for that but, b, i think it's inarguable that rusty bowers earned his place in u.s. history as a key man in a key role in a key moment who helped save democracy. at great personal cost to himself. so you'll remember who rusty bowers is and i do think he has a unique place in this crucible moment that we are having in the history of american democracy. you'll see him here in this tape this is from march of last year and you'll see him here with another man who will also go down to history for the great personal cost he has paid also for trying to save democracy >> speaker bowers. >> members, we are honored today

to have vladimir kara-murza with us i would consider a very brave position as a dissident, but chiefly as a politician author and historian, mr. kara-murza has been twice poisoned by the regime in russia and obviously he's with us today he is a powerful voice of the opposition to the current regime in russia and we asked him to come we would like to give him a few minutes to talk to you if we could. [ applause ] >> thank you, mr. speaker, for the very kind introduction,

mr. majority leader, mr. minority leader, ladies and gentlemen, dear friends, it is an honor to be here in the arizona state legislature. >> rusty bowers before he was censured by arizona republicans, before he lost his seat in state politics because he wouldn't overturn the election results to keep former president in office, that's rusty bowers in the arizona state legislature introducing vladimir kara-murza. you have seen him on the show and on msnbc and may recognize him as one of the most high-profile opposition political figures in russia. the reason we have that tape of him in arizona with rusty blowers is because march last year, just a year ago vladimir kara-murza was invited to speak to their legislature about the war that just started and about russia having just invaded ukraine and started their war -- having started their war there

that speech in arizona that he gave, authorities in russia used that, they cited that speech in particular, the one in arizona at the arizona state legislature, they cited that as reason to arrest kara-murza when he returned to russia for the grave crime of calling russia's war in ukraine a war and you're not allowed to do that and for the grave crime of criticizing russian president vladimir putin for starting that war and the grave crime of criticizing vladimir putin for turning russia from what should be a democracy into instead a dictatorship well, today vladimir kara-murza was sensed in russia to 25 years in prison. it's the longest punishment ever handed down to a kremlin critic since the fall of the soviet union. the only opposition political figure in russia who is more well known than kara-murza is alexei navalny

he's already been imprisoned and had news in the past few days that alexei navalny ha become so ill while in prison an ambulance was called several days ago his lawyers believe he is being poisoned inside prison and that sounds like a farfetched thing to claim except for the fact that except navalny ha already been poisoned in a nerve agent attract in 2022 and as you heard rusty say kara-murza has twice been attacked with poison having barely survived each time now like alexei navalny they sentenced him to a long term in prison they sentenced him to 25 years in prison. that treatment of opposition figures, that is part of how russia is waging this war that they started in ukraine and a dictator's war against their own people i mean, in russia for anyone it's a 10 or 15-year prison sentence if you call the war a war.

you cannot use that word for it or you go to prison. there is not a single high-profile political opposition figure who is still free today in russia and now they're handing out 25-year prison sentences for grave crimes like expecting a speaking invitation from rusty bowers at the arizona state legislature. that's one way they're waging their war. another way is by locking up all the press. it is no longer legal to operate effectively a nonstate controlled news organization in russia and one american journalist, evan gershkovich, is in russian prison today having been charged with espionage for the grave crime of working as a reporter inside russia. today finally the u.s. ambassador to russia was allowed to see mr. gershkovich in prison it's been more than two weeks since russia locked him up they only let him have his first visit from the u.s. ambassador

today, ambassador lynn tracy said mr. gershkovich is in good health and he remains strong she also reiterated that the u.s. government is demanding he be released. so that's another way that they are waging this war right now. still another way that they're waging it is weirdly this. after a lot of online sleuthing by disinformation researchers, particularly russian disinformation researchers, "the wall street journal" has just published this bizarre report about one of the largest most widely followed pro-kremlin pro-russia, pro-putin social media networks on earth. first of all, the amazing thing that they report is that this network apparently is controlled by an american woman who is reportedly pretending to be russian. she is pretending to have been born in eastern ukraine, she was not born in eastern ukraine. she was born in new jersey, but

she's claiming to be of russian origin and she is not. she has been reportedly running this major online network supporting russia in the war in ukraine with accounts on telegram and twitter and youtube and spotify. there's even a podcast where she apparently speaks in a kind of fake russian accent. "the wall street journal" is describing her linked social media accounts as a prominent online voice supporting russia's war in ukraine describing it among the most widely followed english language media outlets promoting russia's views all run by an american woman pretending to be a russian and with "the wall street journal" is reporting now is amazing on a few different levels you know the classified documents that were allegedly posted online on that gaming server, that discord gaming server by that 21-year-old massachusetts air national guardsman who's now been arrested, part of the myster

around that story has not just been how did a kid who looks like he's 11 get access to documents that secret? another part of the logistical mystery has been the timing of it all because this young man allegedly posted all these documents, classified documents, he posted them online starting in december and january. but they didn't come to public attention until much later, until this month well, according to "the wall street journal" part of the reason that happened the way it did, part of the reason these documents finally came to public attention after languishing on this gaming discord server where nobody was noticing them is because one particular social media account with a big following, this one social media account with a big following for being pro-russian and pro-putin, the run secretly by this american woman, her telegram account started posting these documents a couple of weeks ago on april 5th so the massachusetts airman had been posting them on this discord server and the network she was

working published them and has a large following by pro-kremlin, pro-putin, pro-russian interests, big russian accounts started picking them up only after she posted them to telegram and started circulating them more widely and that's when the pentagon noticed them and started investigating. in other words, the documents were basically unnoticed sitting there on obscured gaming server chat rooms and didn't get noticed at all until the big pro-putin social media account put them into circulation. there's a bunch of things interesting about this one, this pro-putin social media network which played this key role apparently in circulating these classified documents, the woman who reportedly runs that network is not only american, even though she claims to be russian, but until november

according to "the wall street journal" she was in the united states navy stationed at whidbey island that seems like a problem. another point here perhaps a bigger problem here is that there is a fox news channel problem associated with this in this whole scandal about these classified documents being posted online, you might have heard along the way that some of the documents were altered, so it wasn't just that this was a classified material that the public was never supposed to see, part of the issue here was that some of these documents were altered from what they originally said. well, according to "the wall street journal" the changed documents, the doctored documents were the ones posted online by this woman or the network she was running, this pro-putin, pro-russian social media network that put them into wider circulation, specifically what was changed

well, one was changed to make russian casualties in the war look way lower than they were. and to make ukrainian casualties look way higher than they were it made it look like russia was doing way better in the war than they are and look like ukraine was losing really badly. another way to put it is the way they put it when they discussed it on fox news >> the second thing we learned from these slides is that despite direct u.s. involvement, ukraine is, in fact, losing the war. seven ukrainians are being killed for every russian >> ukraine is losing the war ukraine is losing the war, seven ukrainians are being killed for every russian. that's not actually what you can learn from the slides. that's what you can learn from the documents that were allegedly posted online by this massachusetts air national guardsman arrested that week

but then in order to get that seven ukrainians killed for every russian killed, in order to get that, you can only learn that from the slides that were crudely doctored by th pro-russia pro-putin media network that circulated the classified information in the first place but only reportedly after changing the documents to try to make it look like russia's war is going way better than it is so how did these documents get into circulation this weird pro-russia social media network affiliated with somebody who just got out of the u.s. navy, that is the network that also circulated the fake documents that were altered crudely to make it look like russia is definitely winning the war and ukraine is definitely losing and that's the document that fox news highlighted on their network last thursday night. so the fox news channel, of course, is going to have their big day in court starting tomorrow it was supposed to start today but it was delayed till tomorrow that led to lots of speculation

that it wouldn't go into trial and they would settle. it now looks like they are going to go into trial tomorrow so we shall see. i should tell you also that last night a federal judge threw out a motion for a mistrial, a motion to dismiss the case that's pending against one of the proud boys members who is on trial for seditious conspiracy for his alleged role in the attack on the u.s. capitol january 6th. remember the fox news thing where fox news primetime was going to blow the lid off the january 6th investigation hoax by showing all the security camera footage from that day that they didn't want you to see? well, one of the proud boys defendants actually tried to cite that fox news footage in his court case to have the judge throw out the whole case against him since fox news said january 6th was no big deal. well, the judge last night laughed that out of court in every respect saying there would

be no mistrial, no dismissal, that fox news had not actually shown anything exculpatory to these defendants at all. so we will see what happens in that proud boys seditious conspiracy trial headed towards closing arguments now, the fox news sort of false story about what happened january 6th has not been enough to rescue those defendants from the fate they will ultimately have handed down against them by the court. we'll also see what happens in the fox news dominion voting systems defamation trial that is due to start tomorrow and see if fox news lying deliberately about the election results is going to have any legal consequences or financial consequences for that network. we'll also see what happens in the classified documents leak trial, that 21-year-old massachusetts airman is due back in court on wednesday. we'll also see what happens with what "the wall street journal" now reports is an active fbi investigation of the american woman running this pro-russia pro-putin disinformation social

media network, which reportedly played a key role in circulating those classified documents getting them into the bloodstream online and which apparently succeeded in getting completely faked pro-russia disinformation unpasteurized and filtered on to the highest rated hour in the fox news primetime lineup last thursday night we'll see how all those cases and investigations turn out. but what a world, huh? if you're the kind of person who gets unnerved by the intersection of very far right, very partisan u.s. politics and our national security, well, those things are colliding and that intersection is getting very weird and very intense right now. we've got more ahead on that stay with us

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so it's the young airman in massachusetts, now it's a navy veteran, a woman discharged from the u.s. navy in november in washington state the first report came today from usni news, citing two defense officials, feds investigatin former sailor behind pro-russian social media accounts. then late this evening "the wall street journal" updated their reporting, fbi investigating ex-navy noncommissioned officer linked to pro-russia social media account. quote, the fbi is investigating activities of former u.s. navy noncommissioned officer who oversaw a social media account involved in the spread of

intelligence documents allegedly leaked by airman first class jack teixeira. "the wall street journal" reported yesterday the woman, sarah bils, administered several pro-russian outlets while in uniform. the scope of the investigation into ms. bils who left the navy in november couldn't be determined one official said she had actively under federal investigation but the circumstances of the content of the investigation are unclear at this time. joining us now is mary mccord, executive director of the institute for constitutional advocacy and protection at georgetown law center and former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the department of justice. nice to see you. thanks for being here. >> nice to be here. >> so i'm muddling my way through these stories, i think, like any layman but have to ask you with your background, if it is of greater concern to you or of less concern or is it beside the point that the two people in these two stories, one with a classified documents leaked allegedly, one with them widely

circulated allegedly, are both people with active or recent ties to the u.s. military? >> it's hugely concerning. we are talking about people who swore oaths to the united states people who -- now, it's unclear what access sarah bils had when she was in the service we do know teixeira signed a nondisclosure agreement that says he understands the law and will not mishandle classified. he won't take it home. he won't transmit it to anyone else he won't share it. he won't talk about it he signs that knowing it is unlawful to violate that nondisclosure agreement, but more importantly he and ms. bils took oaths to the united states and they know that what they're doing, particularly, you know, mr. teixeira knows even if he thinks he's just going to put this out in his discord chat

group of gamers, once it's out there he knows he has no control over what happens to it. even though ms. bils is out of the military she spent enough years to know this kind of damage could do. it is hugely concerning that these are people america entrusts with being in our military. >> we're learning about the circulation dynamics of these documents. they appear to have been posted on lean-in january, maybe as far back as december maybe, what "the wall street journal" and other sort of online sleuths following the stuff have been discovering is that the place they first got wider circulation is when this very heavily followed pro-russia account allegedly operated or network allegedly that includes this navy veteran, they posted them on their well followed telegram channel other russian and pro-russia accounts picked them up from there and circulated them from there given what we know about the

nature of the documents and what we've seen about where they circulated and who circulated them, what do you think of the damage that's been caused by this leak and by the way these have gone around >> you know, there's so many documents even beyond the ones posted on the russian social media web page or whatever it is that cover such a wide variety of areas, but what's really concern something how recent it is, and, you know, i have a been a little surprised in some ways about some of the reporting that does get into the details of some of these documents because sometimes when the government is really, really worried about the harm from certain classified documents that have leaked they will reach out to the media and ask to, you know, keep certain things quiet for a time period other times they may think, look, it's out there, there's going to be sort of less reputable news organizations that will promote it maybe say different disinformation about it and so we'd rather trust the reputable news organizations, so

the government is still assessing the damage from the documents that have already been released they'll be doing a full intelligence assessment, but now when the revelations about sarah bils they're also i think going to do a deep dive into her history to determine if while she was in the service or any other time what are her connections with, you know, russians what are they are connections with putin and his allies if any. is there anything else she might have been doing when she was active duty? what were her level of clearances so there could be more here that we don't know about. >> one of the dynamics you learned about very earl i london whenever you start at any level of the media is any time there is a leaked document you have to assume that there is a good chance it's also a false document. >> that's right. >> anything that's leaked usually can't be verified because it's been leaked now that we have seen one of these apparently doctored documents frontlined or front paged on primetime fox news as if it were real information, i

wonder if the government has to contend with sort of balancing the harm that could come from validating the veracity of some of these documents versus pointing some out as doctored. they could come out and say these documents aren't true but that would imply that the other ones are. >> that's right. that's the quandary and when i mentioned that sometimes the government will reach out to the media to say, you know, please keep this quiet, they're making that calculated decision and they're making a decision for that purpose to declassify in order to protect the national security, right, so here that's the very analysis they'll be doing, right if we acknowledge or say these things are doctored it implies the others are real and that's got to -- the equity holders, the national security agencies and intelligence community who own that information, the information they collected they've got a say in that about whether the government will confirm or stay quiet on authenticity >> mary mccord, former acting assistant attorney general for national security at doj, thank you. it's really good to have you here we'll be right back.

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if you are a procrastinator when it comes to getting your taxes done, first of all, i feel ya but, second of all, you got yourself a little gift from the gods of weekends and holidays this year. this year the usual april 15th tax deadline fell on saturday. that was the 15th. then, of course, the 16th was sunday, then today is monday which is a weekday but even though it's already april the 17th it is still not federal tax day because today is emancipation day in washington, d.c. emancipation day is a holiday in washington, d.c. that celebrates the end of slavery in our nation's capital in 1862, 3,000 people set free by law eight months before the emancipation proclamation freed enslaved people in the south. harper's weekly recorded the d.c. celebrations of emancipation day in 1866 in this sketch "harper's weekly" described a

gathering outside the executive mansion which is what the white house was called back then there were cannons to celebrate. this year there were no cannons, but in d.c. there were fireworks and concerts festivities went on all weekend long in washington, d.c. this weekend. all the way through today, emancipation day, 2023 it's a local celebration for washington, d.c., and because it affects the irs, just like a federal holiday would, it also means the deadline for filing federal taxes was not saturday, was not sunday, was not today, 17th but tomorrow, the 18th. they gave you a little more time use it wisely. that's going to do it for us here tonight thank you for being with us. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. here in manhattan the scales of justice are weighed down by politics for the district attorney justice isn't blind. it's about looor