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>> imagine that? criminals on the street to get more crime instead, they let bad guys roam the street what better place to start than new york city. where videos of violence senseless attacks appear daily. >> jim jordan's new york city field trip this week is part of the radicalization of the american right joining forces with right wing media like fox and with the nra to create an atmosphere of vigilantism through a never-ending campaign of fear. also tonight how fox's settlement of the biggest media defamation case in history allows them to keep spreading dangerous misinformation but they do have many more legal challenges ahead, which you will probably never hear about on their shows. plus, 94 shots fired by police killing black motorist jayland walker, and none of the eight officers involved will face any consequences. we begin tonight with the

late art bishop tez monday tutu and what he said were the three hardest words to say, i am sorry. in 2014 he wrote, we can come up with all manner of justifications to excuse what we have done. when we are willing to let down our defenses and look honestly at our actions, we find there is a great freedom in asking for forgiveness and great strength in admitting the wrong it is how we free ourselves from our past errors. it is how we are able to move forward into our future. unfettered by the mistakes we have made. unfortunately i am sorry was too hard for fox to utter as part of its $787 million settlement with dominion voting systems. the largest settlement by a media company in history as vice news explains, there was no apology for repeatedly airing the lies that played a key role in convincing a large swath of americans that the 2020 election

was rigged which did irreparable damage to voter's trust in the democratic system not even a peep. and what that signals, which may not be all that surprising, is that fox's behavior is not likely to change well, except perhaps causing their anchors to use a self deleting text platform to exchange their true views about donald trump, their viewers and what's happening in the news fox is not out of the legal woods yet however when it comes to their coverage following the 2020 election. they are facing another defamation lawsuit from yet another election technology company, smartmatic demanding a whopping $2.7 billion in damaging that company made it clear after the dominion settlement was announced that it is not backing down in a statement, smartmatic said anyone on's litigation exposed some of the misconduct and damage caused by fox's disinformation campaign. smartmatic will expose the rest. showing a leopard never shows

its spots, fox responded telling axios, there is nothing more newsworthy than covering the president of the united states and his lawyers, making allegations of voter fraud except that judge eric davis already shut down that defense from being used in the dominion trial, telling fox's lawyers in a pretrial hearing, quote, just because somebody is newsworthy doesn't mean you can defame somebody and then there are the pair of lawsuits from former fox news producer abby grossberg alleging the network had a toxic workplace culture of discrimination and that company lawyers coerced and intimidated her to providing misleading testimony when she was questioned in a deposition in the dominion case. she was fired by fox after she filed her suit fox says her legal claims are, quote, riddled with false allegations. she also handed over several audio recordings that she made featuring rudy giuliani and other trump al lice admitting they had no evidence of issues with dominion voting machines.

fox failed to provide those to dominion to discovery leading to sanctions from the judge joining me now is jerry, the attorney for former fox news producer abby grossberg, thank you for being here i want to start with that last bit there. your client has apparently been subpoenaed in the smartmatic lawsuit, is that correct >> yes >> is there anything new -- because we know she does have some additional recordings, some things not turned over initially, is there anything new we're going to learn from her that we didn't already know from the dominion case? >> first of all, thrilled to be with you, joy. yes, there is plenty that's going to be learned from abby's documents and abby's testimony, if necessary, in the smartmatic case and, of course, in our two cases. you know, dominion, who we congr congratulate it was certainly a

history-making settlement, that they were able to achieve and that's because of the hard work of the lawyers and frankly the trueness of their cause. but they said that their lawsuit provides a road map for smartmatic abby grossberg is the star guide for that road map. >> talk about your case. lay out what the basis of your lawsuit is, because it does feel like she did describe a workplace environment for women was a nightmare. but that's something fox has settled lots of lawsuits the environment women are forced to work there the mistreatment of her anchor and pushing her to lie talk about your lawsuit and how you expect that to play out. >> sure. i mean, let me just say one thing that ties into the answer i'm going to give you which is that one of the problems that we have with the fact that at the end of the day fox didn't apologize, fox didn't acknowledge anything in the dominion settlement, fox has a

propensity to pay large s, theno what it was doing. to our lawsuit, going back to the ails era, we know that fox settled cases sounding sexual harassment, gender discrimination, et cetera in the 2015, 2016 to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and ultimately first that was -- those were private but ultimately they became public by some very dogged efforts by colleagues of mine and so, then we flash forward to sort of the end of abby's career at fox when she was on the tucker carlson show. and she was subjected to one of the most heinous and gross working environments i could imagine. i mean, you know, i've litigated a lot of these cases i've been doing it for 30 years. and i thought the kind of chauvinism and misogamy and just

inhumane behavior that existed on theunimaginable i mean, the c word bandied about like it was hello. anti-semitism, you know, signs being put on trees, christmas trees, calling them a hanukkah bush it was just unbelievable that this level of inappropriate behavior still exists in the workplace. and by the way, that's only two years after fox news was fined by the new york city commissioner of human rights the tune of $1 million and entered into somewhat like a consent decree promising it was going to change its stripes stripes remain the same. >> wow we just saw fox's willingness to settle for a record sum when it came to their lies about dominion as you pointed out, refused to apologize. meaning the people who watch fox news who probably didn't hear

any of the revelations about what tucker carlson and others really think about donald trump, what they really thought about the election, they're never going to hear it in your case -- >> i have to just interrupt. i want to say they're never going to hear it i would say that they are very likely to hear it in the near future because, remember, abby grossberg went from the frying pan into the fire. first she was at the maria bart romo show where she suffered classic glass ceiling discrimination, she ran the show by herself the weekend show for ms. bart romo was rated number one in the nation on sundays. and yet it had a staff of one, just abby. and the reason for that was because they were -- they had this -- what we contend is an almost elegant evil plan to essentially let ms. bartaromo go wild, if you will, and try to

gain some traction in the male-dominated world there and then only when they saw that legal liability was at their doorstep when the smartmatic case hit, did they cool things down and then they went about in a very, very inappropriate coercive way -- i mean, just an aside, the only thing that's riddled with inaccuracies is fox news's consistent and blatant misrepresentation of abby grossberg's position, what she did, and also what she said to them they contended in open court, this astounds me, it was wednesday of last week -- last day of the hearing before the trial, before jury selection, so fox news attorney's are excoriated for an hour because they essentially misrepresented rupert murdoch as not being involved in fox news >> right. >> not having an officer role. so after that hour, after that

hour, they then go -- they then say in open court that abby grossberg never told them about the tapes she turned over. a lie. >> we will be watching this case very closely hopefully you'll come back and talk about it as this continues. thank you so much for being here >> that would be great. >> we appreciate you being here. thank you. >> thank you so much. cheers let me bring in michael steele, msnbc political analyst, former chairman of the rnc and host of the michael steele podcast. i can't wait to be on there some time very soon. >> yes. >> you just heard what he said the toxic atmosphere at fox, to me, explains kind of what they're like on air. it kind of explains the kind of nastiness. it explains the misogamy because it's happening behind the scenes as well. but it also kind of really honestly, michael, explains a lot of what's happening in the party because republicans -- that's all they watch on capitol hill they're watching that, too and they're taking that in as a way you should act.

>> you raise a very interesting point. for me, what it speaks to more directly both at fox and within the republican party, is permission they are given permission to behave this way. as the lawyer just noted, the environment there was toxic. it was misogamy. it was gross well, that environment allows -- is allowed to exist because the higher up starting with the owner of the company reflects that back in the way that they go, well, you know, it doesn't affect me. i don't think that's really happened they turn a blind eye. they walk away that is similarly what you see playing out inside the gop the ugly behavior, the marjorie taylor greenes, the matt gaetz, it's not berated it's accentuated it's elevated. >> right. >> and it's given the permission it neen needs, which is like oxygen to keep going. >> i'm old enough to republican an iowa republican was run out of town in the party for saying

white nationalist things about replacement theory. >> yeah. >> and about there needing to be more white babies to replace our culture. >> yes. >> we're in a place where paul gosar is opening retweeting naziism and there's no problem with it. where marjorie taylor greene is breaking decorum, you want to talk about tennessee breaking decor rum and attacking her fellow colleagues and saying insane things daily. and where on television, you have tucker carlson who is now pushing replacement theory, demanding that the governor of texas pardon a man who threatened to go out and kill black lives matter protesters and then did shoot one >> yeah. >> and saying he needs to be pardoned despite the abject racism in his facebook posts or probably because of it it is a partnership the party and fox news they ain't going to change. >> no, they're not going to change not only are they not going to change, again, they double down and lean in towards why donald trump has dinner with a nazi, right? you talk about tweeting nazi tweets, i mean, let's sit down

and break bread together >> yeah. >> so you have this environment that is existent within the party that the leadership thought that they could manage and control. realized very quickly as some of us warned them at the time, you're not going to be able to control this because you don't even understand what it is. >> that's right, yeah. >> you don't understand what animates it. and so they are now sucked into it further to the point where we watch, as the gavel from the speakership is given to marjorie taylor greene. >> 100%, yeah. >> which under any other republican leadership at any other time the party's history would never happen. >> the republican party shares with fox news right now is that neither of them, as you said, are leading the party. >> right. >> they're being led by the base but the base at this point, the loud part of the base, is the furthest right, most extreme, most, you know, christian nationalist -- >> they have been looking for a long time. >> they finally tyke over the party. there was a time -- you were

chairman during the tea party era. you had big, wealthy donors funding the tea party in order to create a grass roots moment they could stay grass roots. at this point it's above them now. the base has gone out of control and no one -- >> what's historical, those donors moved on. they're not supporting half of this they now because of the changes in our campaign finance law with citizens united, they've got -- they're dancing with their own operation. so they're not even really funneling that kind of money that we used to see into these organizations and these operations in candidates a lot of that is grass roots money. donald trump's dollars are coming from rank and file activists out there. >> if fox news doesn't have to admit that they lied about the election, if they can just pay it off that they did what the women who roger ails and others were harassing if all they have to do is pay money and bill that as a cost of doing business, who has the moral authority to tell this third of the country that

still doesn't believe that the election in 2020 was fair, that it wasn't. because we have seen what they can do when they feel wronged. they did it on january 6th. >> what's corrosive about that, first off, no one is going to tell them. >> no one, yeah. >> what's corrosive about that third becomes a little bit more, becomes a little bit more. why? because there are no consequences. >> that's right. >> you're right. fox has baked this into their -- >> cost of doing business. >> cost of doing business. they don't have to apologize for it and how do you know how they've set themselves in the course of this, that behavior that you led into this conversation with was on going before the trial even really got under way. >> that's right, yeah. >> they didn't cut back. tucker carlson was still putting crazy out on the air waves people were still gobbling it up fox has made the calculation that the most important thing to them is that base -- >> keep them happy. >> keeps the lights on and allows them to get away with

what they're getting away with. >> i never thought you could have a show as openly racist as tucker carlson's show. nicknamed white nationalist television for a reason. you can do it for a reason >> buckle up, it gets worse. more of it is coming. >> michael steele, thank you my friend scaring is caring. up next on "the reidout" -- the nra and conservative media teamed up to stoke fear, anger and resentment to sell more guns and attract more viewers at the expense of innocent american lives. "the reidout" continues after this ♪ more space... gotta sell the house. (vo) oh..open houses or, skip the hassles and sell with confidence to opendoor. wow. (vo) request a cash offer at opendoor dot com my mental health was much better, but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight.

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♪ it's actually not uncommon to knock on someone's door, at least it shouldn't be. plenty of folks knock on doors the girl scouts used to do it during cookie fundraising season sometimes little kids selling candy bars, census workers, salespeople and election years, those essential election canvassers maybe a community member running for office that part of american life, it seems dead these days, doesn't it i mean, who would feel comfortable doing any of that with the tragedies that we so often hear about a 16-year-old boy shot for going to the wrong house to pick up his younger brothers a 20-year-old woman shot dead after her boyfriend pulled into the driveway of a home they mistakenly believed belonged to a friend and now, two texas cheerleaders shot, one critically after one of them mistakenly got into the wrong car in a grocery store

parking lot. this is, at least the third time in a week, that a young american was met with gunfire for making an apparent mistake. there's this running theme in america today where so many people walking around or behind those neighborhood doors are so heavily armed and paranoid and more and more of these people feel increasingly empowered to shoot people based off this constant fear that danger is lurking everywhere i wonder where that paranoia seems to be coming from? thinking, thinking, thinking >> high crime. >> america's crime crisis. >> crime is a disease. >> we need crime control >> murder, assault, anarchy in the streets of our entire country almost violent offenders, they are roaming the streets. >> the point is disarming you so you can't defend yourself against their plans for you. >> the issue is not too many guns the issue is too many thugs, hoodlums and savage criminals on our street >> what you're seeing is the outgrowth of fox and other right wing message constant message

that people who don't look like you or worship like you are out to get you when you combine that with a country that has more guns in civilian hands than any other on earth, and nra-backed laws that encourage people to use them, well no wonder we can't ring someone's doorbell anymore joining me now, ryan buss, a former firearms executive and author of "gunfight. i am just going to let you talk because, you know, it feels to me like we have created a society in which the door to door sales men that sold my mom encyclopedias would be tearfied to do that now because everyone is shooting. >> you know, joy, thanks for having me. you're exactly right look, what we're living in now is a manifestation -- it's the commercial marriage or the marriage of a commercial operation that the nra helped, you know, develop and foster, and a political operation that the nra helped develop and

foster they handed it off to donald trump. and we're living with the repercussions of it. it's incredibly -- it's based on fear it's based on hate and when you have the sort of irrational fear and hatred that the nra, they really had this instinctual -- they had a lizard brain sort of idea that this could drive irrational political outcomes so as we all think about -- we scratch our heads about how did my aunt vote this way and why do people in my workplace hate me over politics. it seems so irrational well, it is irrational, but fear makes people do irrational things when you combine that with an overt marketing policy and strategy from the firearms industry, that basically taps into that fear, and then propagates that fear and fuels that fear, and donald trump puts it on steroids ever more, consider this, there were 56 million guns sold in the united

states public between 2020 and 2022 56 million and a lot of those guns, unlike the good old days of gun ownership, i remain a proud gun owner. i hunt and shoot with my boys every chance we get, but we believe in responsibility. we believe in the sort of gun ownership that you don't wear it on your sleeve you don't own guns because you hate people. you're not trying to own the libs and damn sure not trying to shoot the libs and i think what we're living with now is manifestation of all of this just run amok. >> the thing is the vast majority of gun owners agree with you and wouldn't let their kids poeds for a picture with the gun aiming at the camera you have a good percentage of the country who own the preponderance of the evidence of the weapons and firearms and main lining things like fox news, constantly saying black lives matter is terroristic. black people are coming to get you. it's all crime it's all crime and you know, what's frightening about that is that the nra has pushed these laws like stand

your ground that i think have convinced people, always been racist people, now they think they can get away with shooting people because of those laws. >> yeah. we are living with that now. i think just like the politics of the right, just like the politics of the republican party, they think, you know, michael steele made the point, basically they built this campfire and thought they could stay warm by it, but the wind came up and it's blowing across the country. this is going to engulf all of us it's going to engulf republican kids and white kids and black kids and hispanic kids why that sort of hatred in the dark on a doorstep or in a car with a 20-year-old girl pulling up the wrong driveway, that sort of hatred does not discriminate. so when you have a system that arms these people and then fuels them with this just sort of incendiary rhetoric from their media sources, i got news for you, and as michael steele said, this is not going to get better.

it's going to get a hell of a lot worse and it will be up to us to fix it. >> it's ended empathy. the mcbride case a few years ago. this woman had a car accident. staggers toward a house. asking for help. she ends up getting shot and you got to wonder what's going on in the minds of somebody who would do that or shoot little ralph yarl who is a kid who rings your doorbell. who goes to the door when they hear the doorbell with a gun in their hand that is a huge deterioration in our society. >> look, if you have been told that you have to own guns, that half of the world is out to get you, that you are in existential crisis, that people literally want to snuff you out. watch fox news for ten minutes hell, i would be afraid. you can't help but do it then you turn to firearms marketing and the firearms markets tells you it's now off the rails. it now tells you to be afraid. it now tells you to buy guns because you need to be ready

because some 16-year-old honor student is going to come to the door looking for his brother what are we? we have chosen to do this to ousts as a country we have to unchoose it >> i agree i can't imagine the mom of this young lady who pulled into the driveway of a house and is now dead at 20 years old just for driving into someone's driveway i can't imagine what her mom is feeling right now. she lost her daughter for literally no reason. and as you said, to firearms, you know, lust, and hate and fear and panic it's sad ryan busse, thank you so much. i really appreciate you being here to talk about this. still ahead, how republicans are able to retain power despite the unpopularity of so many of their policies and positions we'll be right back. i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! really? dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well you could end up paying for all this yourself.

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♪ as you look at america today, you see a country divided. half of the states which happen to be controlled by republicans are moving with blinding speed to strip millions of americans of their basic rights. they are passing more and more pro-death gun laws leaving their states a wash in guns and death because of their lack of leadership, gun violence is now the leading cause of death for children and teens and murder rates in red states are 23% higher than in blue states republicans are banning books. and any speech that dares to

address our troubled path or the existence of lgbtq people. and if you object, they will punish you whether you are a major conglomerate or small time public library they're also happy to punish citizens if they question their policies republicans in ohio, missouri and florida are pushing back against ballot measures, looking to make it more difficult to pass citizen-led initiatives god forbid you decide what you want for your state. and god forbid they see a repeat of what happened in kansas or michigan they wouldn't want women actually deciding what they do with their bodies. time after time their policies are proven disasters for americans, but they don't care and they don't care if majority of us don't want it. they do not care that a majority of americans support reproductive rights. they do not care that majority of americans support stricter gun laws they do not care that a mar ma jurorty of americans support being woke or caring about social injustice they do not care that the majority of americans support

teaching their kids about the on going effects of slavery and racism in public schools they do not care that vast majority of you do not want them banning books. they do not care about what you want because you, their constituents, are just standing in the way of what they want there is no clearer case of that than district judge matthew kacsmaryk, the religious extremist who believes gay people are disordered and that being transgender is a mental disorder and who decided that every single woman in america should be denied the use of mifepristone, an abortion pill the go-to judge for republicans who want to impose their beliefs on the rest of america and boy did he deliver just a few weeks ago he decided what all american ladies can do with their bodies. telling us, we aren't allowed to use mifepristone to manage an abortion his awe though tear can ruling unleashed chaos across the country and left healthcare

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temporary extended mifepristone until friday at midnight nothing good ever happens after midnight now, the last time that we waited on the supreme court, the six christian conservatives stripped american women of our constitutional rights my good friends noted was a curiously spot on christian version of something republicans used to pretend was coming to threaten america. sharia law take a listen. >> if you believe that you don't want people to have abortion rights, but you live in america which constitutionally says you can't impose a state religious belief on everybody else, but you do it, that's actually sharia that's actually what everybody else is complaining about what sharia is. you've taken the good book and made that the law book something that muslims never did in america or couldn't do in american if they wanted to. >> little by little these judges are getting what they want, which is for their particular version of right wing

christianity to become the law of the land. in other words, minority thee cattic rule. joining me now is co-chair of american bridge and former president of planned parenthood. thank you for being here and i'm sorry that we only get to talk during these dark times like these how do you understand what the supreme court has done and how that affects the chaos that we're seeing in terms of abortion access across the country? >> well, the tough thing is, joy, everyday women wake up, you know, medical providers, doctors wake up and we're living in this political chaos, just waiting to hear what the next decision is so now the supreme court has pushed this decision to friday night, which of course, as you say, is not a great time to get this kind of news. the fact that the supreme court is even delaying this is worrisome to me because this is a case that never should have been brought there is absolutely no healthcare reason to end access

to mifepristone. as you've said, this is a drug that was approved decades ago and been safely used it's the most commonly used form of medication to terminate pregnancy. and the fact that we're even having this discussion is absolutely insane. this is -- just like dobbs was something we had never seen, constitutional right taken away by the supreme court, we have never had a federal judge say he knows better than the entire medical establishment including the fda about the safety and efficacy of a drug >> well, i mean, i think the standing question is one that has galled a lot of the lawyers we have on the show. the supposed people with standing are conservative doctors who say they may in some instance have to treat a woman who at some point took mifepristone and winds up in the e.r. your job is to treat women in the e.r. the standing thing is wild but what i want you to comment about, alito when he wrote this ruling, one of the concurring

opinions was by kavanaugh. i'll set aside he was credibly accused of sexuality assault and now decides whether we get to have mifepristone. this will go to the great laboratories of the states but now it appears that they're taking that back so the scary way to look at what the supreme court is doing is they're taking this long, because they're trying to find a way to square what he said, what he promised, and what they really want to do, which is to find some way of supporting what this texas judge did in upholding it is that what you fear? >> yes i think -- look, it's really important to understand that the dobbs decision they somehow said, oh, this is now going to be so simple it's just going to go back to states but of course it's been chaos ever since and we're seeing state by state by state make different decisions. and as we just saw, of course, governor desantis in the dark of night sign almost total abortion

ban in the state of florida, which is creating total chaos for women across the country but now this -- if, in fact, the supreme court allows this right wing judge in amarillo, texas, to take away mifepristone from every single person in this country, that is effectively the first step towards a national abortion ban which as you say i think is probably the goal after all. one of the things, too, i just have to point out is that, yes, there were a handful of doctors who brought this case in amarillo, but it's really important the american medical association has soundly and resoundingly said this is bad medicine this is bad pred yur so the medical community is horrified a single judge could take away access to a very important and effective drug that's used not only for abortion but also for miscarriage management in this country. >> yeah. well, i mean, and drug makers, including the maker of the generic version of mifepristone are saying, hold on a second, they're seeing this is a

business issue, too. and then what happens when the same kind of people who dislike abortion also don't like mrna vaccines and decide mrna has to be drawn off the market. well mrna is now used for cancer treatment. we don't want to take the vaccine, so we want to dump those, too that is a slippery slope what do you make of the religious argument you have jewish groups suing in florida, wait a minute what about our write they believe that for jews all life is precious the decision to bring new life is not determined by state fiat. in jewish law abortion is for many reasons not permitted by florida law. what about our religious right what do you make this one sect of so-called christians are the ones deciding how all of us have to live? >> well, i think the point is, joy, people consider decisions about pregnancy to be deeply

personal some of them think they are religious decisions but at the end of the day, they are decisions that pregnant people with their families or their medical providers need to be able to decide and that's why you're seeing all across the country in election after election people reject politicians who are saying we're going to make these -- take away these decisions from you and we're going to place it in the hands of politicians i mean, we just saw this happen in wisconsin we're seeing independent voters, republican voters saying no, no, no these are decisions that are not political. these are decisions that are personal somehow the republican party seems to have missed this message. but i feel like this is going to continue to happen until they finally wake up and realize this is an american value, the freedom to make your own decisions about your pregnancy and about your family. >> absolutely. that is supposed to be what liberty is, the freedom to control your own body. thank you very much. up next, an ohio grand jury refuses to indictment any of the officers who fired 94 slots at

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sick and tired of being sick and tired. i'm tired of having this conversations. i'm tired of the fact that, no even in akron, ohio, can we ge justice when 90 bullets. it's not enough. what does it take? i'm having a hard time sitting

next to a family that' struggling because i feel their pain. because we all feel their pain and we can't get justice >> this week, the city of akron, ohio, is grappling with a gran jury decision to not charge th police officers who shot and killed 25-year-old, jaylan walker, last summer. ohio's attorney general says the grand jury determined th officers were legally justifie in their use of force, we will begin at a traffic stop for an alleged darkened license plate turned into a car chase. officials claim while police were chasing walker, he fire one shot, before jumping out o his moving car and running away those eight officers chased hi and fired 94 bullets in less than seven seconds 46 of which hit walker the officers claimed walker ha reached for his waist band, an that they did not know he ha left his gun in his car. by the way, having a gun i your car is completely legal i the open carry state of ohio

hundreds have gathered thi week to protest the no indictment decision. while walker's family and loca leaders are calling for th justice department to open a investigation into the akron police department. joining me now is charle holman junior, civil right attorney and msnbc legal analyst. charles, walk through this wit me this is a doordash and overreach driver, who's drivin and has a very minor traffic situation. and it turns into 94 shots, 64 going into his body, and yet no indictment. as a former prosecutor, can yo make this make sense for me? >> i can't, joy. the only thing i can say i response to it, american policing continues to be broken and we continue to ignore that we should've just highlighted, is exactly the problem if you look at the narrative, point you to the numbers jayland walker is one person there were eight officers wh were involved here with us f - apprehension of the eight officers who were involved, only two of thos officers chose to utilize, non-lethal force in trying t

apprehend mr. walker at no point, as anyone actuall confirmed, mr. walker fired shot at the police, as he wa attempting to continue to move forward. now, here's the other thing want to point out about th numbers. two officers used an on lethal force, eight officers in pursuit as far as it apprehension, and over 90 shot at this man. we know that, when you tal about the situation, there's a different thing what you can d and what you should do and police in this situation and had a litany of othe options that they chose not to explore when it came t bringing him into thei custody. and that is the problem. >> 64, i meant 46 shots, i mean, it's not as if that makes it any better there are photos, grisly photos, that have been leaked out of the police department, you'v seen them, i've seen them. they are horrific. they are too horrific for us t show on our air tonight. you can see a body that is literally riddled with bullets

and yet, after police rained bullets down upon this young man's body, they handcuffe him. what sense does that make? this sounds like narrative building by the police, it obviously worked >> of course it does it also highlights the transparency which is why th community in akron continues t push this is not to the situation about jayland walker, ther have been problems with th community and akron policing for years. this is just an example of how this has gotten so out o control. we're talking about a complete lack of transparency, thes officers identities have bee kept hidden, they are still on the force. we don't know what investigation was held, we don't know what the results of the investigation were, and in front of the grand jury, w don't know what evidence was and was not presented. i can tell you, as a forme prosecutor, there are very few cases that i've wanted to ge an indictment on, that i presented to a grand jury, and i did not get it to -- do with that what you will what i'm saying to you, th lack of transparency, al around, from all different

facets of what we've seen here should be alarming and concerning and it is exactly why people in the community ar pushing back in akron, ohio, right now. >> we thought after tyre nichols, when they immediately released not just the names bu the photos of all of the mainl african-american polic officers involved in tyr nichols death, we were gonna set a new standard here. we are gonna get thi information, we didn't i will note, i'm ver particular trusted in this, yo are a former prosecutor. assistant journey -- is a career prosecutor who presented the evidence t the grand jury, which had, i believe, only two black member on this grand jury called walker a, quote, good man who is acting totally ou of character that earl morning. what do you make of that presentation to a grand jury about the dead man >> i think it's important, tha audit is understand that, th strength of your presentatio to a grand jury is a prosecutor, is only as strong as you narrative. it's also only as strong as ho much you challenge the witnesses that you put on th stand. so, for example, a polic officer gives on the stand and

said, well, we heard over th radio the shots were fired, or that there was a shot fired. and you don't challenge that narrative as if to say, well did you notice any of th windows were blocked out did you see a hand did you actually hear a shot yourself did you see anyone hit by shot and so on and so forth the narrative that you allow this to stand for the gree jury can be one that wil prevent them from returnin with a true bill all those things are reall important, if you're characterizing, or mischaracterizing, mr. walker' behavior in this moment, tha has an effect as to how that grand jury perceives the cas you're presenting to the department >> we know that there was no drugs in a system, no alcoho in assistant, none of that that is a matter, you should b executed even if you did hav drugs and just amounting lik that there is a civil lawsuit i this case, these cities ar paying out multi millions of dollars, but not reforming their departments. that doesn't seem like sound policy to me >> it doesn't, joy i've said it before i'll say i again. american policing culture in the spirit evolves and

aggression in service an protection until we change into a publi safety model, and a public service model, america policing, we are going t continue to see these high bills being paid out b municipalities, which, by th way, and of being on the backs of poor people when taxes ar raised in those very cities. so, it's a circular effect we over police communities then we pay them because w make mistakes when we over police them, or we violate the rights, and then we charge the to actually be able to pay out the settlements. that's how the cycle works and that's exactly how america policing needs to be reformed. >> we're gonna keep up wit this case, and see what happen and whether the feds jump into it charles coleman junior, than you very much appreciated. that is tonight's read out, al in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in i think there's a sense amon fox viewers, there's really no side that's gonna pierce their bubble >> fox news resumes it