no spect decision. doesn't mean it might not happen in the next couple minutes so stay dund to "deadline: white house" which starts right now. hi there, everyone happy friday, it's 4:00 in new york so it turns out that the massive $787.5 million settlement in the dominion fox news case will not mean the end of the steady drip of damaging revelations involving fox and those who used fox to pedal the big lie to try to overturn an election and by extension our democracy. take, for example, this from former fox news producer turned whistleblower abby gross berg. this is ted cruz on november 7, 2020, the day president joe biden was projected to be the winner by all of the networks of the 2020 election. he was on a phobe call with fox's maria bartiromo stressing

the need for proof of any actual election fraud listen. >> it can't just be, you know, somebody tweeted this. it's got to be demonstrable facts that can be laid out with evidence because that's what a court of law is going to look to, not just an allegation, but actual facts and so i feel i'm hopeful -- you know, i'm hoping rudy comes on the show tomorrow and he has some of those facts and i hope the legal team continues to lay out the specific evidence because that's what it's going to take to prevail in court. >> they were all pinning all of their hopes on rudy and sidney powell explains why team trump would go on to lose 61 times in court, judge after judge after judge in courts all across the country, some of those judges appointed by donald trump himself, as well as the united states supreme court dismissed trump's claims of fraud and his attempts to overturn the 2020 election through the courts

and they lost because as they very well knew, as ted cruz knew, there wasn't any evidence of fraud recall what former arizona house speaker rusty bowers testified to before the january 6 select committee about a phone call, a meeting he had with rudy giuliani >> at some point did one of them make a comment that they didn't have evidence but they had a lot of theories? >> that was mr. giuliani. >> and what exactly did he say and how did that come up >> my recollection he said we have lots of theories, we just don't have the evidence, and i don't know if that was a gaffe or maybe he didn't think through what he said, but both myself and others in my group, the three in my group and my counsel, both remember that specifically and afterwards kind of laughed about it. >> i guess it could be funny, but the harm it's done is undeniable, right? there was never any evidence, the lack of, quote, actual facts and specific evidence as druds

and rusty bowers put it. as ted cruz puts it during a phone call on november 7th with maria bartiromo, but it doesn't stop him from working as a senator to overturn the election result here he is on january 6th. even though he knows there is no evidence, objecting to the certification of president joe biden's electoral college win. watch. >> i want to speak to the republicans who are considering voting against these objections. i understand your concerns, but i urge you to pause and think, what does it say to the nearly half the country that believes this election was rigged if we vote not even to consider the claims of illegality and fraud in this election. >> what cruz and what fox still can't grasp is that half the country believed that because they were lied to by people like ted cruz and fox news. cruz unsurprisingly did not respond to a request for comment

from msnbc and today there's more we have more evidence today showing that members of trump team -- team trump, easy for me to say, had their own doubts about whether the people who claimed to have the goods about election fraud actually ever had any of the goods about election fraud. in an audio recording that is exclusive to "deadline: white house" peter navarro who played an integrate role in peddling election fraud claims expresses his own doubts about attorney sidney powell's claims and her credibility. here he is talking to abby groz berg more than two weeks after the insurrection. >> sidney powell she ends sends me stuff by mistake, there is an abby in her office -- there is an abby in her office and this whole -- through the whole flynn trial she sends me stuff and frantically calls me saying

please delete t it's confidential. >> that horse is out of the barn, right? >> so she just basically sent me something on signal on my phone. i'm like i wonder what that is but i'm not going to open it because i don't want it to be evidence and then comes the call two minutes later please delete it, that wasn't intended for. >> you well, you have no idea how much damage she did to our evidence she really -- she really -- i'm telling you, abby, when the history is written on this, she was like the turning point in our inability to prove the case because she was like so far out there that people like pulled back we were on the verge of some breakthroughs in the state and state legislature and then that [ bleep ] happened and it was like katie bar the door it was like damn damn just not good. >> interestingly in the statement to msnbc when we were going to play this tape peter navarro didn't walk away from any of it, in fact, he doubled

down on the statements he made about siddy powell saying, sidney powell is basically the worst thing that ever happened to the election integrity issue. as always i'm being candid with abby grossberg just as i'm going candid with the american people. doubts about the veracity of their fraud claims about whether there was ever any evidence of election fraud revealed in new audio recordings is where we start today. joining at the jerry filipatos, you were the attorney representing abby in her ongoing lawsuit against fox news. >> yes. >> i think there's some mistake to think that these matters are closed but they are not at all. >> not at all closed abby has two lawsuits, one in delaware where she is esse essentially alleging there was a civil conspiracy to throw her under the bus, get her to testify falsely, to cover up fox's misdoings in that case and that case is ongoing in

delaware and then a case in the southern district of new york which is a very unique, even for me who has been doing this for 30 years, practicing employment discrimination law, uniquely strong case alleging gender discrimination, glass ceiling discrimination, failure to promote, she didn't get an executive producer spot, although she was a one-woman show along with maria bartiromo and then ultimately was replaced by a man, and then even worse, jumped out of the frying pan into the fire and went to the tucker carlson show where she was subjected to one of the most vial toxic work environments i have seen in my 30 years of practice. >> i've heard some of -- and i've read some of what -- of what you and she are alleging and i want to deal with all of the second -- but let's deal with the first one first. >> sure. is it a crime to not comply with

discovery? >> it's not a crime, but it's a serious offense, both for a litigant and for an attorney probably even more serious for an attorney. i have to say i'm shocked at the conduct that went on here. i mean, as i said, i've been practice ago long time, i don't have to say t you can just look at my face, but i've prepped a lot of witnesses, i used to -- i will give you a confession since we are both greek, i used to be on the other side and do defense work early in my career so i've prepped witnesses on both sides of the fence and there is nothing wrong, as an attorney, i mean, what you're supposed to do is marshall the evidence in favor of your client, you're supposed to, you know, lego build the wall of either prosecution or defense in order to make your case. that's different from actually denying the evidence, actually affirmatively coaching your client to per jur themselves

the client you are supposed to be protecting as a matter of professional responsibility and that's what they did to abby grossberg. that's way off the charts. to stand up in open court and to actually continue to lie, which i guess sometimes they say, you know, you can see a dog looks like its master, i guess the fox attorneys look like fox, they trade in lies, they just -- the truth isn't important to them. so for them to stand up in court and after they are excoriated by the judge in delaware saying to them you can't say that -- as they represented in discovery -- that rupert murdoch is somehow in charge of fox news and therefore you didn't have to produce all this evidence, which they ultimately had to produce, so the judge yells at them, this is like the wednesday before the case actually goes -- is supposed to go to trial and then settles. he yells at them for like an hour and then he finishes that

and then one of the attorneys stands up and they start to deal with the abby grossberg's evidence she presented in that case that was pretty significant and the fox attorney says, oh, no, no, she never -- she never told us about those tapes. i mean, we never knew about them at all and abby, you know, will swear on a stack of bibles, she has already that she told them very clearly she had those tapes and she turned them over we find digging through all this stuff without getting into the weeds too much that they clearly knew and they clearly held the evidence back because they wanted a strategic advantage, and broke the rules. >> let's talk about where the evidence was so the recordings that got the judge so angry were recordings she made working with maria on a weekend program. >> right. >> she sits with the fox lawyers and tells them about this program where she has recorded pre interviews, people did that all the time. >> sure. >> my team did one with you. >> yes. >> and then she does, what, she gives her phones to the lawyers. >> says here you go.

>> what is the normal practice she's told them about her practice, where the recordings are, she's turned over her phone. what should fox have done? >> they should have listened to the recordings and determined whether they were relevant to the outstanding requests for discovery by dominion and then they should have produced them or at the very least -- because i think on one of them there was the issue of reporters privilege, they should have produced them on a privilege log. they didn't say anything about anything until we filed our complaint in the delaware court and put it -- i don't want to get into the weeds but put in a corrected err rat at that sheet. >> her depo gets corrected >> she gives a deposition after they coach her and intimidate her and throw her -- there's like four attorneys, spent four days with her. you never spend four days with a witness, it's just ridiculous. anyway, she goes in for her deposition, gives her deposition, what's supposed to happen after that is you're

under delaware law you're supposed to get a transcript of your deposition so you can read it and make sure it's correct, you didn't say anything you didn't mean to say, nothing was mistranscribed, et cetera. five and a half months later only after i started to represent her and we've asked six, seven times does she get her deposition transcript. >> why >> i've said on other shows i don't spend any time trying to read fox's mind. >> i want to know if you think she's the only person who told fox's lawyers -- >> i don't. >> -- where there were recordings and potential evidence that they didn't then when they were handed that fox employee's phone download and turn over to dominion as part of discovery. >> for a fact i can only talk about abby's experience. i will tell you that i have had conversations with others close into that litigation because, remember, we weren't technically in that litigation, we had our own case, but at least the pattern of incomplete and obviously coached answers in

depositions was not just observed in abby's deposition. >> let's talk about the workplace. so she works for maria, that's where some of these recordings are made. >> right. >> she is at tucker carlson most recently tell me what that was like for abby. >> i will just take one step back and explain why she went from maria to tucker's show. >> sure. >> you know, she had two and a half years with maria and she's often said maria was an idol for her, she used to watch her on cnbc and maria was a trailblazer, the first woman on the floor of the stock exchange. she was a respected journalist when fox came and heavily recruited abby, who was at cbs evening news at the time, she didn't go right away, she had an opportunity for a few other shows and finally when the maria opportunity came up she went because she thought it would be great. she quickly found out that it was really maria and abby, these two women in this highly

chauvinist i can horrible place. she was there for one week before one of the senior producers said to abby, oh, you know, maria, you have to tell us everything she does, she's menopausal, she's crazy, you know, and then afterwards when they saw the two of them together, after maybe like a year, then they started -- a lot of the male executives started to just ignore them and wouldn't give them credit i think abby told me a story about she was the first -- they were the first to have trump on after he lost the election huge get, right? and some discussion with one of the senior producers, i think it was david clark who is her supervisor, he characterized that as, oh, just silly weekend fluff. so that was the kind of attitude that they were up against and eventually that led to abby not being given the executive producer title, although she was

the only one working on the show with maria and it was the number one rated show i think on the weekends in general, not just fox. so she figures out this is not going to work for me, she's also feeling kind of, you know, queasy about maria's very at that point, you know, buy in into the big lie and she's trying to push back, abby is trying to get some informed objectivity in the room -- >> does abby believe joe biden won the election >> oh, yeah. >> when does she come to believe that >> well, she started to have suspicions about, you know, the big lie probably a week or two in, right? >> so she entertains the conspiracy things for about a week. >> right and then she's doing her job and she's trying because she is -- you know, she is the producer. >> i get it. but i think maria still does so i'm trying to figure out when -- >> we can't read maria's mind but that's what it seems like. and abby feels -- i've spoken to her about this a lot

i mean, she said to me, you know -- first of all, hypothetically she said to me because i can't say anything she told me because then we would lose all attorney/client privilege but she might say something to me like the only thing i have to hide is that i believe that for a week. that's what embarrasses me so you get the fact that she's really at this point feeling -- >> now that she's in your hands, she's your client, she's trying to correct the record, she's worried that that might be a vulnerability? >> i think she just, you know -- it's human nature. >> public perception. >> you feel stupid when you do something -- >> i get that. can you say more about this -- you said you were sort of on the defense side before. what does it say to you that a company that really seen from the outside to have paid a hefty price during the me too years, i mean, there are women who are known for coming out and telling the truth about fox news and it seems to have absolutely put another senior woman in their newsroom through the wood

chipper. >> yeah, i think that it doesn't say a lot for fox's ability to abide by norms, abide by rules, abide by the law and it says a lot for its arrogance. i often call it, you know, an onion of arrogance, you keep peeling and it just starts to stink more and more. i think that what our greatest worry is is that, you know, fox is not going to change and at this point abby has been put into a position by fox, throwing her out there, trying to effectively throw her under the bus of a $1.6 billion lawsuit, you know, she had some senior executives a couple months before -- before the trial started to heat up or before she left, rather, this was -- you know, the dominion lawsuit is all your fault because you didn't put up -- >> full screen.

>> she pointed out, no, i did put up the full screen at some point she says to herself i have to defend myself, i have to make sure the truth is known first of all about what happened to me and secondly about what fox has done. so we are committed to going through this until the end, until fox acknowledges its mistakes, acknowledges that it lied about abby and that it lied about the election >> is part of that helping smartmatic make its case against fox? >> well, i would say two things. one, on a moral ground i was, you know, very heartened to hear smartmatic's lead attorney i think yesterday say that as far as he's concerned smartmatic isn't settling until all the truth comes out and there is a public acknowledgment by fox that they misrepresented the facts and we want that and we want that regarding abby as well and we won't rest until that happens. technically speaking, yeah, i think that abby's civil

conspiracy case that's in delaware is really the sinew between the dominion case and the smartmatic case because she -- a lot of the common players are involved that she has certain evidence about and one thing to say about abby is that she keeps the receipts so there is a lot of evidence. >> and it's my understanding that she investigated her own case. >> yeah. >> so in terms of being able to surprise her, the two of you have the facts and the research and have done the discovery that fox didn't do, is that accurate? >> it's fair to say. >> what is your sense in terms of what she possessions that we in the public haven't seen how damaging is that to fox? do you think she was a factor in fox deciding to settle >> again, i can't read fox's mind, don't even try, but look at the facts, right? i mean, in my business you put cases together through circumstantial evidence, most of the time, especially in discrimination cases, you know, typically you don't have a smoking gun when a player says i'm firing you because of your

age, your gender, your race, et cetera so you have to put the pieces of puzzle together. if you have a case that hasn't settled and really everyone -- every lawyer says that, you know, when you settle a case on the courthouse steps you've really failed your client on both sides because you shouldn't have to go through all of that pain and especially in this case from fox's perspective to have all of that stuff come out and to have, you know -- to be on the eve of having your chairman on the stand so it should have been settled much earlier, but it wasn't, and maybe part of that was smartmatic holding the line, but i'm sure if smartmatic was, you know -- took $787 million last week they probably would have taken it three months ago, right? so i think that there was something -- something happened and the one thing that i can think that happened was that abby came forth with a lot of evidence that they're still trying to suppress they just filed another motion, they've now lost i think three

motions trying to gag abby and they've just filed a fourth or at least a letter in delaware. >> i know you said to my colleague ari that law enforcement has been in touch about the recordings what can you say about that? >> i can only say that we are in communication with numerous law enforcement agencies about the tapes that we've made public and we've informed these law enforcement agencies that there are more tapes we're sifting through upwards of 90 tapes. >> are you concerned about -- i mean, i think about women like cassidy hutchinson and gretchen carlson and others who have sort of taken the stand against either fox specifically or this trumpy wing of the party, i think about the witness tampering that took place with cassidy hutchinson are you worried about her as a person >> well, i mean, i worry about my clients all the time and i worry especially about a high-profile client, but, you know, some lawyers say you are only as good as your client and, you know, i'm blessed to have a

wonderful client she is amazingly courageous, resi resilient, educated and smart and she has photographic memory. she knows the case better than i do and i spend a lot of time studying the case. >> has she heard from maria bartiromo? >> i haven't had that discussion with her probably -- within the last six months or so i think at some point, but they left, you know, as far -- i will say this, i haven't heard anything that they have had any kind of acrimonious exchange. >> how about tucker carlson? >> no. i mean, she never had much of a communication with tucker carlson. i mean, you know, it was funny, one of the -- you said you wanted some of the sort of the hollywood behind the scenes stuff, right >> sure. >> so when abby testified at her deposition, remember they're hammering her to get her to say exactly this or that and they had shown her an email or text,

i'm not sure which, where tucker carlson used some -- some vile misogynistic language and this was as she was transitioning, not the key piece of the story, the deposition prep and the actual deposition happened as she was going from maria bartiromo to tucker carlson. so in deposition prep they show her this email and they say, you know, dominion's attorneys might show you something like this and say are you offended by it, right? "c" word, all sorts of horrible stuff. >> i can only imagine. >> which was banned yeed about like hello apparently in the newsroom there. >> not surprising. >> they prep her and get her to say, well, i didn't really -- didn't happen while i was there, i'm just starting there now, i can't say. right? which of course was not truthful she didn't feel truthful to her and we correct it had in the

errata sheet so after the deposition this comes out somehow and -- to the -- you know, david clark and others so they have an abby day where they get bagels and coffee to congratulate her for, you know, sticking up for tucker and making sure that he didn't get into trouble. >> oh, my god. oh, my god i can't -- yeah, wow let me just do this in the spirit of housekeeping and fairness this is fox's statement on abby to the "new york times," quote, we will continue to vigorously defend fox against ms. grossberg's unmeritorious legal claims which are riddled with false allegations against fox and our employees at fox news spokeswoman said we will see if the bay gel breakfast is among what they are claiming to be false let me ask you one last question -- >> can i respond to that shoo sure. >> where is the camera >> your camera right here. >> i'd like to speak to fox's

attorneys and i've said this in letters before so i will just do it on tv. >> sure. >> i challenge you to debate me, i will go on fox air with any of you, all of you, and you can show me one place, just one in any of our public pleadings where we have said a false hood. i can show you probably 50 in yours. >> well, there you have it a challenge to, i think, ari melber would be better suited to moderate so i'm going to stay out of this one. >> sorry i really wanted -- they've really upset me. >> you are clearly committed to your client and to helping us as the public understand what's going on behind the scenes at fox news not just related to the dominion case but abby's case. thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. when we come back there are new details from jim routen berg at the "new york times" on what was the absolutely nonstarter for dominion, the no-go zone and what the fox news hard line was in the final negotiations as

well as how rupert murdoch himself factored into all of it. plus a nation armed to the hilt with guns along with more self-defense laws empowering americans. we will take a another look at how both of those things combine with mistake everybody makes in their own lives are yielding deadly consequences. later in the broadcast the supreme court is expected to weigh in by midnight tonight on whether a pill used by millions of american women for miscarriage, health care and abortions should remain available and legal. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ways get the e not part of it but the whole upstairs the whole downstairs the whole fridge and the whole secret nap room because is it really a vacation home if you have to share a house with a host? ♪

only with vrbo way day! shop wayfair's biggest sale of the year! ♪ on april 26th and 27th. get bedroom furniture up to 60% off! area rugs up to 80% off! kitchen and dining furniture up to 60% off! and free shipping on everything! plus, pay your way with a wayfair credit card. save big this way day. april 26th and 27th. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need. ♪ (vo) verizon small business days are coming. april 27th through may 3rd. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon.

give your small business one tech solution that checks all the boxes. it's all here with the comcast business complete connectivity solution. peace of mind with cyberthreat security. the power of the largest, fastest reliable network. plus, save up to 75% a year with comcast business mobile. the complete connectivity solution. from the company powered by the next generation 10g network. get started for just $49 a month. and ask about an $800 prepaid card. comcast business. powering possibilities™.

there's some incredible

brand-new reporting today on just how that massive $787.5 million settlement came together "the new york times" reports that at first both sides were determined and set to go to trial. from that reporting, quote, one of dominion's biggest asks was a nonstarter for fox that's a public apology from the network for its role in implicating dominion in a fictitious algorithmically driven scheme to steal the 2020 election from donald trump fox's insistence on no admission of wrongdoing at all was a nonstarter for dominion. the two companies whose lawyers exchanged dollar amounts over the weekend were also far apart on a settlement number but their positions began to soften as they barrelled toward trial. once again from "the new york times" over the weekend lock land murdoch intent on finding a way to a deal had given his team the go ahead to raise the dollar amount the company would pay and during those talks as the fox offer increased, dominion

softened its bottom line about an admission of wrongdoing the compromise an acknowledgment from fox that it understood judge davis' pretrial rulings against the network, including that the defamatory dominion conspiracies fox had aired were objectively false. joining our conversation "new york times" writer at large jim rutenberg, his reporting is what we've been reading from and msnbc host legal analyst katie phang who has talked us through this entire trial that wasn't all week long, she was in the courtroom at the start of what was supposed to be day one jim, take me through your reporting, it's fascinating. >> thanks. great to be here, back from delaware. >> quick trip. >> quick trip. quicker trip than we expected, not that quick i will say there was so many drama as katie knows, we were sitting in that courtroom as opening arguments were going to start but what we didn't know was how much frenzied action there was behind the scenes. as we reported, but this was new

to us yesterday is that lock land murdoch, the leader of the company, the son of rupert had given the go ahead to lawyers over the weekend gave a higher number and the higher number was critical, however, it still isn't even until the jury is impaneled is that they get into the negotiation where the number comes high enough to have dominion soften on what it expected in temples of an apology as we understand it. but we also understand that the wrangling is going through about what fox will say after this, what everyone can say after this, goes on through the end. the statement that comes out really let down a lot of fox -- i mean, fox critics, but as far as dominion's attorneys saw it, they said afterward the number spoke for itself and at least they got fox to admit there were judicial rulings found before the trial that dominion conspiracy that were at issue here were false and kind of defamatory per se, so fox was at least acknowledging the rulings

happened and in fact they would have almost certainly kwibld or disputed those rulings had they gone through an appeal process. >> what is amazing is if you engineer it the other way this was an $800 million lie. if you take it the other lie at the end of the day this was how much was fox willing to pay to never tell their viewers the truth, katie >> well, yeah, you know, to jim's point it kind of reminds me of a duck kind of very poker face chill on top of the water that the feet are furiously going underneath the water and you don't see what's going on. if you were to watch the dynamics in the courtroom you would have seen that they were inching their way towards a settlement there was no way judge davis was going to sit for an hour and a half, two hours without action going on two, most importantly, people need to understand for a deal this big to happen, the negotiations were constantly taking place this is not something that you scribble on the back of a napkin and say here is the deal, the actual deal terms were already

being hammered out i said this two days ago, three days ago, it's all a blur. it's not until you see the whites of their eyes and the eyes being the jury. when you have a jury sworn in and impaneled that is when it gets real and when you need to find and have that gut check as to what you are willing to put on the line. for fox it wasn't just stroking the check to be able to get this done, it was not adding to the increased exposure to the company in terms of its brand, it's reputational quality of what it is putting out and i say that in quotes because what is the quality there. i wanted to touch on something that abby grossberg's lawyer which i found to be incredibly compelling it's the idea that honesty when it comes as a lawyer, what i'm disappointed the most about this is the fact that the special master order entered on tuesday morning basically saying fox, you did exceptionally bad

misconduct, i am putting a special master in place to hunt down how bad that was, i think that that actually hurts the judicial system more so than not having fox come out and actually say that they lied because the through line, before the november 2020 election, to the date of the election, november and december of 2020, january 6, 2021 up until this week alone where the lies are still being perpetrated on fox the through line are lies. if you don't hold the people that actually are the megaphone for those lines from the hosts orto the lawyers themselves responsible and accountable, then where do you actually find accountability which is why the smartmatic lawsuit, abby grossberg's lawsuit, the shareholder derivative lawsuits i'm harping on those because thoseare stil going to be knocking at fox's door saying pay up or shout up, right, and we're going to see what's going to happen. >> speaking of paying up, i mean, jim rutenberg, what i sort of wrote down three different

places on my notes was 90. abby grossberg has 90 recordings, i think we've heard three. how much of this was about not -- the other thing, and this is so sort of behind the curtain, but our viewers have sort of lived through seven years of covering trump and fox and so i want to have this conversation otter is a program that people use when they're doing a lot of interviewing, i don't know if either of you use it in your work, but she says to her lawyers, we did our pre interviews on otter and she she takes her phone and she says, go get it they do nothing. i mean, how many -- and, again, i don't know the pre interview practices of other eps at the network or other people recorded things, but i think this looming question of discovery that wasn't, i guess i will just -- to katie's point i always wonder how much thatplayed into the settlement, jim. >> look, i do not have reporting that specifically says that played into the settlement,

however, it's kind of part of a stew that did play into the settlement which was that fox had a trial kept getting cross wise -- their lawyers kept getting cross wise with the judge. what a horrible way to go into what was already going to be a tough case no matter what just the optics of all of this and that was a big part of the pretrial optics were in this mix you could see lachlan murdoch already not want to go take the stand himself, not want to go see his father grilled, not want to go see his hosts grilled. a judge who is going to be predisposed to rule against them on whatever objections could be happening during that questioning, you see it all as a reason to say to the lawyers, move up that number, let's find a way out of this. >> moving up the number is exactly what smartmatic is doing at this point. katie, let me -- let me play this, this is a smartmatic attorney, eric conley. >> you have a number in mind that you would settle for, you know what fox just settled

dominion for will you settle for that number or anything less >> i think the way i would answer that is my client looks at that and will say that that is a good start for where the settlement numbers go and they need to go up from there there is a big difference between dominion and smartmatic. dominion is a great company, they are focused in north america, smartmatic is a global company. smartmatic is the only company that actually operates globally in this industry so when you are talking about the damages that the companies are experiencing, my client suffered global reputational harm five continents they've done business on and they've suffered reputational harm in all five of those. you are going to need to see a very significant number to come even close to making my client whole because of that. >> so, katie, i'm sorry to have a little skepticism, television

negotiations, but this idea of sort of the size and scale of the company, the damages it suffered, you add that to this contaminated discovery process, as the judge found in the dominion case and i wonder where you put at this early stage smartmatic's legal strategy moving forward >> yeah, i mean, look, let's be honest, there's posturing and a little bit of posturing that happens on the public court of opinion as well as when it happens in the courtroom i will say smartmatic is actually procedurally at a very good stage, it survived an appellate review by motions to dismiss filed by fox and certain defendants remain inside this litigation smartmatic is taking the position that its damages model as you heard from the lawyer is global reputational harm in this instance fox has responded and i can't quote it verbatim but i will say this, fox's response to smartmatic's posturing has been their damages model is flawed. note that fox didn't say we didn't say anything wrong, fox doesn't say that smartmatic is

wrong from a liability standpoint, it's just, quote, the damages model is wrong let's speak frankly because it speaks to the dominion lawsuit a lot of people are upset about the fact that there wasn't a cross the finish line go to a jury verdict condemnation of fox news in the dominion trial, but eric connelly is a lawyer left representing a business, this is a commercial decision to be made i don't know how much money fox is willing to put on the table to put smartmatic's lawsuit go a away they are claiming $2.7 billion let's see if they come close. >> amazing thank you to both of you for getting us through the last -- i know it was a short delaware spurt, but there was a lot of expertise you shared in all of the days and weeks leading up to it thank you to both of you, jim rutenberg and katie phang. catch katie's show tomorrow and sunday and every weekend morning on msnbc a very short break for us and then there's new evidence today

about guns and as they become more and more available, more commonplace, how everything we do in our normal lives becomes a risky undertaking. we will explain. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data it do in our normal lives becomes a i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. mara, are you sure you don't want -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are --

exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie! frustrated by skin tags? dr. scholl's has the breakthrough you've been waiting for. the first fda-cleared at-home skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment.

april 27th through may 3rd. clinically proven to remove skin tags now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. (smelling) ew. gotta get rid of this. ♪tell me why♪ because it stinks. ♪have you tried downy rinse and refresh♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. think about this, one in five american households purchased a firearm during the covid pandemic about 60 million guns or enough to arm every man, woman and child in pennsylvania, ohio, michigan, virginia, arizona, tennessee and new mexico

combined, just between the years 2020 and 2022. that is a rate of about twice what it was 15 to 20 years ago of note, during the pandemic according to data from the nonprofit trace, 15 million americans bought a firearm for the very first time. as if we needed any statistics at all, though, to tell us what's happening, the united states is a powder keg flush with deadly new weapons. there are scoot shoolings, there are mass school shootings, there are shootings happening at grocery stores, parties, churches, dance halls. they happen about once a week. 88 lives in 111 days then there are the accidental shootings we don't pay quite as much attention to those but we probably should. the heartbreaking ones we have covered on this program every day this week. so that third category is the subject of some impressive reporting in the "new york times" that makes the connection between the ongoing domestic arms race, that's what we have here and the everyone is out to

get you mindset cultivated and permeated by the far right quote, each one of these incidents resulted from unique events, but activists and researchers say they stem from a convergence of bigger factors, increased fear of crime and an attendant surge in gun ownership, increasingly extreme political messaging on firearms, fear mongering in the media and marketing campaigns by the gun industry that portray the suburban front door as a fortified barrier against a violent world. joining us now political strategist and msnbc contributor matt dowd and the reverend al sharpton, the president of the nash annual action network matt dowd, you live there in texas, the real world where red america and blue america can sometimes clash violently. maybe this arming of america that took place during the pandemic was less of a shock to you, but just the numbers of guns that are out there and the level of rage and fear of our

neighbors, just feels like something we can't -- can he want put the toothpaste back in the tube what do we do now? >> well, i'm glad we're having this conversation because -- and i know we've talked about guns and the trauma that it causes and all that have and i'm glad the reverend is here with this because i think it's more of a spiritual crisis that it has revealed in us in our country. you've talked about this before but what's happening, all of this is happening, guns are being bought, there's 400 million guns in the country, 320, 330 million people in the country, more against than people in our country, but what's happening is americans are becoming simultaneously more fearful and more isolated. that combination of more fearful and more isolated feeds intothi state, blue state, we're going to deal with that and we say we're going to take care of our neighborhoods and communities of interest now by what's happening is

because people have become more isolated and now are driven in large part by the fear part of their brain, it's now created an opportunity where not only are you afraid to knock on somebody's door, whether it's a vote or something, you are now like can i even tend to my neighbor if they are in need can i even go next door if their tree has fallen down and knock on their door and seek to help and that -- that -- and i know i'm going to phrase something joe biden talks about, the soul of america, when we no longer have those bonds of community and bonds that bind us together, then our democracy really is in fundamental peril. if we now are in fear of our neighbors, because they either -- they own guns or we think they might own guns and then we simultaneously become more isolated, that is a recipe for a huge problem i will point out in the history of our country when we have gotten to those places, usually the result of those places can very, very bad policies and

certain groups of people being victimized the internments of japanese was the combination of fear and isolation, the espionage act before world war i was the result of fear the indian removal act was a result of fear and all of that, and all of those things are a result of when fear combines with isolation, bad things happen >> rev, the important point that if you grow up black in america you have had that fear of being shot by accident or on purpose for your whole life and that some of the coverage even of the last week is that in some ways we all -- anyone who gets into the wrong car or opens up the door to the wrong uber, knocks on the wrong door, pulls into the wrong driveway may be experiencing something that a lot of communities have lived with for a long time. >> that a lot of communities

have lived with for our entire lives. i think that that is not to say that, oh, now you understand what i'm saying, ha, ha, ha, that's saying we need to do something about it because i agree with matthew dowd's assessment, agree with matthew assessment it will start to scapegoating segments of people to try to relieve that fear. at the same time what embellishes is the stand the ground law the 16-year-old black kid shot in kansas city by an 84-year-old white man whose grandson is saying that he was bigoted he will use stand your ground laws as defense we have to be outraged

to shoot at a girl in a car. cheerleaders some that just drove into a driveway every community must denounce this as i would the apparent racial shooting in kansas city because even the head of the police said -- the prosecutor said it was racial overtones i think we need to deal with law and the environment as we set as the culture. there's a spiritual element to this because we have dealing with all of our own feears becoming realized with a gun in our hands. >> for people that go door to door for a job or on elections

or march of dimes. i want some today advice i have to sneak in a quick break. we'll be back on the other side. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. how to grow delicious herbs: step one: use miracle-gro potting mix. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. as someone living with type 2 diabetes, i want to keep it real and talk about some risks. with type 2 diabetes you have up to 4 times greater risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. even at your a1c goal, you're still at risk ...which if ignored could bring you here... ...may put you in one of those... ...or even worse. too much? that's the point. get real about your risks and do something about it. talk to your health care provider

about ways to lower your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. learn more at getrealaboutdiabetes.com ♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you.

(vo) verizon small business days are coming. april 27th through may 3rd. you need now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. hey, dad. i got an a on my book report. that's cool. and i went for a walk in the woods and i didn't get a single flea or tick on me. you are just the best. -right? i'm great. -you are great. oh, brother. this flea and tick season, trust america's #1 pet pharmacy. chewy. - double check that. trust america's #1 pet pharmacy. eh, pretty good! (whistles) yeek. not cryin', are ya? let's tighten that. (fabric ripping) ooh. - wait, wh- wh- what was that? - huh? what, that? no, don't worry about that. here we go. - asking the right question can greatly impact your future. - are, are you qualified to do this? - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - yeehaw! - do you have a question? - are you a certified financial planner™? - yes. i'm a cfp® professional. - cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest.

that's why it's gotta be a cfp®. find your cfp® professional at letsmakeaplan.org. a question for both of you we have done work and been under an and run for office. if you are running for office do you do anything differently knowing that ringing a bell would expose you to being shot or violence, matt?

>> i mean, that's a really good question because you have to provide for the safety of anybody that works for you if somebody may own a gun and you have to be cognizant if we are isolated they win. the forces of hate and division win. we sit in isolation they win with everything that's broken down in society and the technology provided is so easy to be isolated if we can't stand in front of another human being and see them for who they are then division wins. >> if you are running a campaign and volunteers going door to door to you send them? >> it is a very, very serious dilemma. right now we are involved in civil rights campaign. you don't know

i think that influencers must s.t. start talking about the downward slope of feeling safe in the country and do things about laws that embolden people to shoot first and shoot questions later because they feel there's no liability in criminal law they will face. >> i think this is one of the most bat bleep crazy things, twists, the country has taken. i have a 11-year-old i wouldn't let him ring a doorbell anyone. someone could be raging away with a right wing propaganda about a zombie crime wave and come to the door and terrifies me if people don't think there's a silent majority living in fear

it is nuts thank you. we are getting close to the self imposed midnight deadline don't go anywhere. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. there's a story in every piece of land. written by those who work it. like the upshaws. the nelsons. and the caggianos.

run with us and start telling your story. (vo) in two seconds, eric will realize (man) [laughs] (vo) they're gonna need more space... gotta sell the house. (vo) oh..open houses or, skip the hassles and sell with confidence to opendoor. wow. (vo) request a cash offer at opendoor dot com

everything's changing so quickly. before the xfinity 10g network, we didn't have internet that let us play all at once. every device? in every room? why are you up here? when i was your age, we couldn't stream a movie when the power went out. you're only a year older than me. you have no idea how good you've got it. huh? what a time to be alive. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. the future starts now.

this case should have never even been heard. this is so extreme that one judge in amarillo, texas, decided he had the power to rescind a fda approval of a drug approved for decades and the ability of women everywhere to access this medicine not only for abortion care but also for miscarriage management is literally at risk. >> hi again, everyone. 5:00 in new york the united states supreme court has until midnight to weigh in on the case that never should have been heard in the first place. one that if upheld would have

dire and immediate consequences for every woman and family in the country. the court's decision could come at any minute. whether a commonly used miscarriage management and abortion pill called mifepristone will be accessible to women across the country. they are considering a recent decision by the u.s. court of appeals to roll back access to pre-2016 levels where the usage is expanded. the expansions allowed it to be used through ten weeks of pregnancy and sent through the mail "the new york times" reports this experts say removing the mail option would have significant consequences mifepristone is widely used in the country, more than half of abortions in the u.s. are done

with a two-step medicine regiment mifepristone is one of the two steps. with the supreme court's decision is the overhaul authority of an agency the fda. president of the american medical association said that this ruling could be one of the most brazen attacks on americans' health yet writing that if the mifepristone is questioned other drugs could come under scrutiny. after three years of politicization this would include challenges to many vaccines we should expect lawsuits against common types of safe birth control including emergency contraception. also drugs used to treat cancer

and arthritis. the drugs to prevent or treat hiv and medications for gender affirming care maybe promising drugs and treatments of s.t.e.m. cell technology to treat alzheimer's, parkingson's and diabetes. quote, we simply cannot be a country where your access to the care you need is decided by the whims of ideologically driven judges a waiting the supreme court decision is where we begin the senior editor and legal correspondent for slate. also joining us former u.s. district attorney and with me at the table dr. roy.

dahlia, i won't cover the story as though it happens in a three-ring circus while the crisis for the supreme court happens over here. they're one and the same part of the reason that the supreme court has low approval ratings is the ethics crisis that it is facing in large part due to clarence thomas but a lot of it is being out of the mainstream of american thought. 85% of americans think abortion should be legal in certain or all circumstances. 85% issue and the supreme court is with the 13%. >> you made this point in your opening and i think it is really essential to understand that the fundamental promise/lie of the dobbs decision is that this was going to go to the political branch es and the states the court was getting its out of

the abortion administration business yet here we are less than a year after dobbs with a nationwide injunction from one judge in texas who sees fit to make a determination for the country and it will fundamentally change the right of states to govern themselves everything we were promised in dobbs and told about kicking this back to the people and don't forget justice alito, work this out at the polls, all of that was not true. the important thing you are saying and we have to center this in the conversation is not the court is on the side of the tiny minority but that the court is in the business of making it harder for people to do what they want at the polls so when the court says sort this out with elections we understand

this isn't just an abortion problem but a court problem. >> when you start to unravel, barbara comstock, making it impossible to receive the care is the point when you look at eliminating the option of having medication mailed to you, if the supreme court agrees providers will not mail pills to patients but the comstock acts over broad language could make it illegal to transport to clinks, pharmacies or clinics. the next republican president probably would enforce the ban we have reported on great local stories of ob/gyn making plans with custody if they go to

prison for doing their jobs. what do we living through in your view, barbara >> it is a really strange time the comstock act is a very old law that made it a crime to send on scene materials through the mail extended that to medication for abortion is quite a stretch. not something contemplated when that law was put on the books. there are two other arguments in this case that should make any lawyer's head explode. regardless of what you feel about abortion law is standing ambassador case should be heard there should be a real matter in interest a real harm. these doctors have a theoretical harm if someone uses the medication and goes wrong and they are the doctor that has to help complete this abortion

their rights will be violated. that alone should be enough to dismiss the case a judge could overrule a decision by the fda that a drug should be on the market. it has been for 23 years if this case is allowed to stand no drug on the market is safe. pharmaceutical companies will not have the assurances they need for the manufacture of drugs. if this were any other issue but abortion the supreme court would have thrown the case out and the only reason they take the time is because it's such a hot button cultural issue. looking at this on the law this case should not be in the court. >> barbara mcquaid, i appropriated the comstock act which i asked you about with former republican barbara comstock's name and you didn't blink, flinch. my legal follow-up question is,

why isn't there anyone -- is it surprising to you that the block of six on this won't act on the exclusive treatment for abortion rulings that are so legally unsound? >> i don't know. i wonder if that's not the reason we had the delay. they said they would get an answer on wednesday night. they extended the deadline to friday night that suggests there's disagreement on the court. this should be a no brainer. grant the stay or dismiss the case and this suggests there's a difference of opinion there. >> so dr. roy, i don't want to go longer without talking about the real consequences for women. >> let me be explicit.

abortion care is health care reproductive care and women's care is to littized and needs to stop decisions are being made by judges, elected officials about medications like mifepristone approved by the fda over 20 years ago. this is a medication that been used safely by over 5 million women in the united states to safely terminate pregnancies the fact that the judges and officials are making these decisions and the removal of the approval of medications is to me and many colleagues shocking it is reckless and medically reprehencible. as a doctor and as a woman of color, south asian descent taking care of underserved women who will be impacted by this

ruling, it is -- makes me livid to be honest this is going to impact so many people the association of american medical colleges shows that the states that banned abortion are seeing a 10% reduction in ob/gyn applications. >> what does that mean >> you have displayed several repercussions. if there are fewer people -- we are talking about young women and men who have completed medical school, gone into medicine because it's a calling just like for men and they have chosen or wanted to go into the profession but now given the rulings and the restrictions on the work to do and the services

to provide they decline not to do that. obstetrics includes miscarriages, cervical cancer, these are all medical health conditions and surgical that women to this day every single day experience and with fewer people in these fields there will be impact to people in rural communities. this is reprehencible. >> dahlia, the tragic collision between what the science says and what our hyper politicized supreme court is expected to do, they could surprise us i would be thrilled if that happened is that the they don't care. they are so far -- it would appear -- immune from public sentiment or the preservation of

a doctor, patient relationship annihilating the fda seems like a really new low even for this version of the supreme court what's your thought on that? >> i have long passed the day when i say to you i think this is the thing that's going to make the justices break. i think i gave up a year ago saying this. any one of the things that the court is nominally on the hook for, thomas' ethics revelations, being so, so far out ahead on the skis, the public approval, doesn't seem to bother them. just in light of dr. roy said if you are an og/gyn in this country trying to figure out in the next seven hours the state of the law, a patient with a nonviable pregnancy and trying

to figure out what the state of the law is and medicine, this is not the way we do things i'm mindful of what matt said in the earlier segment that everyone is a law unto themselves and the court in that chaos seems not to be bothered at all >> what should doctors do that don't know what to do today? >> doctors have to manage so much it is a whole medical team doctors, nurses, specialists taking care of this individual patient. they already have to know so much information about that condition and now to understand the ever-changing, evolving changing rules and laws that are archaic. this is about oppression of women and the ability to make -- have bodily autonomy i don't know how doctors will be able to keep track and then face

legal and criminal ramifications? this is not why people into this profession you see the repercussions of this not only fewer people going into residence sys but mrnl medicine. >> you could be in the emergency room, too. >> complications happen in the emergency department this is widespread repreaccusations. >> so took me until the end of the last hour to say it's insanity this is 16 minutes and it is insanity to me the ethics of the supreme court, they're not separate from this crisis of credibility that the court has. this is nbc's latest reporting that senator durbin asked chief justice roberts to testify about the ethics rules on thursday to testify before congress in early may about rules for justices and potential reforms. durbin said in a letter that

last addressed ethical issues in a 2011 report. since then there's been a steady stream of revelations of justices falling short of standards expected of other federal judges and of public servants generally barbara, 2011 was a long time ago. it was another time and place. and it was actually a time when the supreme court was complete 20 minorities more popular than it is today. >> yeah. the supreme court makes the argument that their justices should be shielded from the laws that apply by other laws created by constitution and not statute and a separation of powers problem but that argument falls flat when you have members of the executive branch to abide by ethics rules and the legislative

branch i don't see how it diminishes to comply with the ethics rules when i was in government i could not take free stuff. it might compromise me or the appearance of compromising me. you couldn't have free meals go to banquets you couldn't get -- go on a super yacht to new zealand and indonesia and subject to financial disclosure forms shows the sources of income from everything all of it has to be disclosed. the idea that the supreme court is somehow above that really i think is what is contributing. they have other problems but if john roberts cares about the institution of the court this is a way to immediately make things

better. >> a way to immediately make things better. dahlia, will he? >> i think it's some point he will probably after the end of the term agree to come testify while it is years since he talked about ethics he devoted the speech on new year is threats to judges and justices so in his view and the view of the other justices and you talked about justice alito suggesting that the dobbs leak opened them up for attacks they look at this scandal and this drop in popularity and all of the drama around it as fundamentally a question about attacks on them and how they frame it and see it. i don't think that they are in any way susceptible to the notion that people are going to suffer people will ultimately die and

be incarcerated and in the telling of the story the real victims every time are them. >> dahlia, how did they get so detached and distant from the american public? >> i think in some sense they always have been by design that's the nature of life tenure and a stretcher 100 years ago that looks like a greek temple right? it is by design they are not subject to the whims and pressures of the american public so in some sense we built it that way i think that the court is singular in my lifetime and reporting not only in being unbothered by the disdain that the public feels by the lack of confidence but the circular notion that the folks to blame are the press or the public. what's weird to me is an almost

complete inability to take a hard look in the mirror to say again this goes to barb's point if we want it to stop we could stop going on yachts this is not difficult. to say that's our fault, the fault of the press, the people banging on about ethics. what's weird is that they think they're not immunized enough. >> the ethics lawyer for the bush white house we could not drink a diet soda purchased by a reporter or anyone, i'm not kidding. thank you. when we come back, the secret republican donor retreat where lawyer and big lie promoter said do whatever it takes to make it more difficult to vote

the strategy is clear. suppress the votes of people who don't vote for republicans top attorney elias will be the next guest plus a massive walkout by florida high school students just days after governor desantis' don't say gay law extepided through 12th grade later, hopeful news. voters reject the extremism so far. far right candidates are losing and losing badly "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. with scotts turf builder triple action! gets three jobs done at once - kills weeds. prevents crabgrass. and keeps it growing strong. get a bag of scotts triple action today, it's guaranteed. feed your lawn. feed it. (vo) verizon small business days are coming. april 27th through may 3rd. it's guaranteed. now is the time to partner with our experts.

get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. that's some bad luck brian. and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky...day [crash] so today is your lucky...day for a great low rate, go with the general. get refunds.com powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. getrefunds.com has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes. go to getrefunds.com to get started. powered by innovation refunds. (janet) so much space!... go to getrefunds.com to get started. that open kitchen! (tanya) oooh definitely the one! (ethan) but how can you sell your house when we're stuck on a space station for months???!!!

(brian) no guys, opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. (janet) nice! (intercom) flightdeck, see you at the house warming. - you like that bone? i got a great price on it. - did you see my tail when that chewy box showed up? - oh, i saw it. - sorry about the vase. - can we just say vase like normal people? - fine. - i always wondered what it would be like to have a tail. - maybe you did one time. and maybe a thousand years from now, i'll be tail-less using that chewy app to get you great prices on treats. - i'm pretty sure it takes more than a thousand years- - vase. - pets aren't just pets. they're more. - vase! - [announcer] save more on what they love with everyday great prices at chewy. (air whooshing) (box thudding) our customers don't do what they do for likes or followers. their path isn't for the casually curious. and that's what makes it matter the most when they find it. the exact thing that can change the world. some say it's what they were born to do... it's what they live to do... trinet serves small and medium sized businesses...

so they can do more of what matters. benefits. payroll. compliance. trinet. people matter.

brand new reporting in "the washington post" takes us inside the room where big money donors urged to restrict voting ahead of the 2024 election "the post" obtained a copy of the slide show presentation prepared for gop lawyer clita mitchell. she helped push the big lie and former president trump pressured georgia officials to reverse the election loss there. "the post" reports that it's unclear how she stuck to the prepared slides but the presentation offered a window into a strategy that seems designed to reduce strategy including students and those

that vote by mail both of which tend to skew democratic. the post adds that it listened to portions of what mitchell said through recordings and while nbc news did not verify the clips here's a sample where mitchell discussed limiting campus voting. >> what are these college campus locations and polling? what is this young people effort they basically put the polling place next to the student dorm so they just roll out of bed and vote. >> pulling the alarm on the fact that college students can roll out of bed, put on the clothes and vote what's wrong with that "the washington post" reports that she didn't respond to the request for comment. founder of democracy docket joins us right now

it is nuts it is nuts when they put it in writing and say it out loud. i guess that's why we need federal voting rights legislation. what do we do now? what is the today strategy for the states plan to make sure that college students can't get out of bed and put on the clothes and go vote? >> two things. first, acknowledge how outrageous it is we have been experiencing now under donald trump 2017 to the present a normalizing of outrageous behavior. here it is one of the most prominent republican lawyers tal talking about howthey can prevent college students from voting republicans are big talking about the constitution and the amendments and how we have to abide by the amendments.

whatever the outcome may be. the 26th amendment to the constitution passed in the 1970s precisely to ensure the right of young voters to vote and not have the votes suppressed. so that's the first thing. second thing is to acknowledge that we are not going to out organize voter suppression the other side is arming through litigation they are arming the right to deny the right to vote she is focusing on young voters. we need to recognize that this is not an origganizing problem this is not a messaging problem. this is a fundamental attack on voting rights and we need to treat it as the fire that it is. >> you said profound things on this show. we are not going to out organize voter suppression.

to your point everything went back to business as usual. what is the -- i agree with you on the substance and the appropriate response but how do you get everybody else to come when you pull the alarm? >> i don't know. that's the great mystery isn't it >> yeah. >> right like we are watching democracy be dismantled and attacked whether we see in mar-a-lago with the records and the outrageous decision out of district court in texas that the fifth circuit -- by the way, when i litigate there they tell me that my voters don't have standing how the hell the doctors have standing shows the hypocrisy of it all to your point all i can do is

scream at the top of my lungs that we need to do everything we can every single day to combat the assaults on democracy and voter suppression and that's all i can do you know i talk to you about it it is all you can do. >> listen. i also think that there's a false sense of relief that some democrats and democracy loyal republicans felt after the midterms voters had democracy on the mind three things were happening. you were screaming liz cheney and the 1/6 select committee broadcasting how he sought to destroy democracy. and to your points these things are happening all the time and i wonder how you think we sustain a national conversation about voter suppression and democracy ahead of the next

election you have a lot of followers and fans here. >> yeah. two things going on that we can't paper over we brought a lot of litigation and won. the state of georgia tried to prevent saturday voting on the saturday after thanksgiving. we went to court and sued and tins of thousands of georgians, majority black, able to vote let's not underestimate the role that played. turnout among black voters was not as robust in the midterms as before the fact that we, that crazy election deniers didn't win doesn't mean that the suppression doesn't take a toll. as we see the republicans and conservatives go into overdrive

it is important that we continue to see the leaders of the pro voting rights continue to hammer the importance president biden played an important role to do that. i'm sure he will do so again in 2024 everyone needs to be saying it is not okay and people who have the wherewithal to bring litigation need to do that and like you do to have mega phones and call them out need to do that the role of the january 6 commission how the media covers the trials that donald trump is involved is really important those are fundamentally democracy litigation by another form. >> you always give me something i write down and hang on to. we are not going to out organize voter suppression will be part of that. thank you. >> thank you. it may be the why for why the republicans are trying to

suppress the vote of young people images like this one from florida where students staged a walkout to protest what they call the right wing takeover of public schools and education that story is next ing double, or...your bloodshot eyes have you seeing red, it's not too late for another treatment option for thyroid eye disease, also known as t-e-d. to learn more, visit treatted.com that's treatt-e-d.com. family is just very important. she's my sister and, we depend on each other a lot. she's the rock of the family. she's the person who holds everything together. ♪♪ it's a battle, you know i'm going to be there. keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer

with two different types of medicine. in a clinical trial, keytruda and chemotherapy was proven to help people live longer than chemotherapy alone. keytruda is used to treat more patients with advanced lung cancer than any other immunotherapy. keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you have advanced nonsquamous, non-small cell lung cancer and you do not have an abnormal “egfr” or “alk” gene. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, muscle pain or weakness, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. there may be other side effects. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including immune system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, received chest radiation,

or have a nervous system problem. it feels good to be here for them. living longer is possible. it's tru. keytruda from merck. ask your doctor about keytruda. ♪ well, the stock is bubbling in the pot ♪ ♪ just till they taste what we've got ♪ [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. now, where were we? [ cheering ] i screwed up. now, where were we? mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl!

woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. making voices heard walking out of school to protest the expansion of that state's don't say gay bill through 12th grade

as state governments are ramping up the assault on the right to exist. some hostile towards transgender individuals and students 14 states have passed laws to place restrictions on the trans community like sports bans, bans against gender affirming health care one trans lawmaker in montana state representative zoe zeffer is silenced for not apologizing at warping legislators if they push through legislation kids would die. >> if you're forcing a trans child to go through puberty when they are trans is torture. you should be ashamed. if you vote yes on the bill and the amendments i hope when from's an invocation you see the

blood on your hands. >> for telling the truth she is misgendered by the house speaker until she apologizes joining us is the chair of the department of african american services and the editor at the bulwark. we started the dehumanization that's necessary for the political attacks to work. i want to deal with that part of it they said i'm not trans but willing to listen and not putting myself in the medical decisions. why is the gop >> why is the gop? that's a big question for a friday i think they see this as a political win. i just think it's as simple as

that there are -- you saw this in the virginia governor's race the first example thinking that the republicans could get some ground here thinking that the parents are concerned or unhappy or nervous about the schools and natural. i think republicans have taken that and distorted it to say now we can drive this wedge. we can feefr monger about teachers indoctrinating the children to be trans it is the same playbook back to the gay teacher scares in the 1960s and '70s it is the same playbook for 70 years but i think the republicans thought they lost this fight but saw this opening on trans issues and the opening coming to younger kids and then expanded it started k-3 and now k-12.

started with trans bathrooms and then sports teams and teachers can't talk to students trans at all about the gender identity. a lot of times you heard from gay and trans kids in the red parts of the states like florida and teachers are the person they can confide in right? for whatever reason the parents at home might not be as welcoming and ready for it the really bad cases might be hostile to it. to their self discovery. so i think that what has happened here is that's gotten pernicious as republicans feel like it's politically a winner what ends up happening is getting the far oversteps and what we see in florida with the k-12 in particular. >> tim, listen

i don't pretend to have all the answers or all the wisdom or any expertise but anyone with a kid prays that whatever your kid goes through in their life is treated with kindness and not cruelty. i guess that that's a majority position in this country still kindness not cruelty how do you make the cruelty a political loser? >> like i said, i don't think that it's becoming a political winner right? there's a huge overstep on the republican side with cruelty the kids shouldn't have to protest. they should be in school learning about whatever is appropriate for their grade and forced to march in florida clearly you see a backlash but i think that republicans see particularly in certain areas some parents and opportunity to

say, hey, to try to paint this -- not as cruelty but the teachers are indoctrinating the children whose parent's rights are we talking about? when republicans talk about the rights it is only the rights of white christian parents that don't want the kids to know about gays at all. we took our daughter to tour a florida school we walk in and you know if you know any 5 or 6-year-olds they said to the teacher she has two -- what's the deal with that two dads was that -- is that her parents? any good teacher says, o yeah, i had one mom. some people have a mom and a

dad. anyone can do this that republicans are trying to make that into something nefarious and scare people is over the long term a loser. i think they prey on anxieties and fears about the changes on the issues for short term benefit. >> eddie, over the last i think four weeks we have seen kids marching for gun safety, against the discriminatory bills in florida, on behalf of their fellow students. victims of gun violence. the kids are not all right but they are perfect are you seeing something in the kids just basically saying wtf, america? >> yeah. i think so i think we have a generation of young people coming of age in

the midst of cascading crises. one could call them as a catastrophic generation and concluded i think at least the students i see and our way of lifer is broken. and that conclusion opens up space. right? for them to imagine a different kind of world and a world to fight for. it opens up space to long for order. it is no guarantee they reach for a more progressive politics but the current system is broken so they're reaching for ways to fight for the world they want. we saw it in wisconsin college voters off the charts. in tennessee kansas city. now florida. it is a judgment about the society as it were. >> yeah. the last story is connected to

this story the slide show saying, what's going on something is broken here college kids can wake up, get dressed and go vote. we have to sneak in a break and enth more eddie. we'll be right back. i'm a palm springs hotel. i got the desert air, sun-kissed pools, and shady hideaways. i'm looking for someone who can decide on a friday that a one night commitment on a saturday is a fine idea. maybe you heard of the rat pack? they hung out here all the time. so, pack a bag. or don't. you could be here in a few hours. meet me at hotels.com progressive makes it easy to save with a quick commercial auto quote online. so you can get back to your monster to-do list. really? get a quote at progressivecommercial.com.

when it comes to reducing sugar in your family's diet, the more choices, the better. that's why america's beverage companies are working together to deliver more great tasting options with less sugar or no sugar at all. in fact, today, nearly 60% of beverages sold contain zero sugar. different sizes? check. clear calorie labels? just check. with so many options, it's easier than ever to find the balance that's right for you. more choices. less sugar. balanceus.org

way day! less sugar. shop wayfair's biggest sale of the year! on april 26th and 27th. get bedroom furniture up to 60% off! area rugs up to 80% off! kitchen and dining furniture up to 60% off! and free shipping on everything! plus, pay your way with a wayfair credit card. save big this way day. april 26th and 27th. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need. ♪ living with diabetes? glucerna protein smart has your number with 30 grams of protein. scientifically designed with carbsteady to help you manage your blood sugar. and more protein to keep you moving with diabetes. glucerna live every moment

as someone living with type 2 diabetes, i want to keep it real and talk about some risks. with type 2 diabetes you have up to 4 times greater risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. even at your a1c goal, you're still at risk ...which if ignored could bring you here... ...may put you in one of those... ...or even worse. too much? that's the point. get real about your risks and do something about it. talk to your health care provider about ways to lower your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. learn more at getrealaboutdiabetes.com eddie and tim are back eddie, say more about you students and we have seen young people take to the streets to

try to get our attention, i think. to say this is not okay. this is not the country we want to live in. >> right i mean, these are the students that have grown up and going to school and having shooter drills, who student loan debt to school and having shooter drills these are the students who student loan get has surpassed all other debt these are the students that feel we have handed them a shattered world. they are holding us to account and they are going to fight for it but what's interesting is what we are seeing, is this bifurcation. for republicans, they have two views, liberty for them, authority for the rest of us that is at the bottom of tim's question, liberty for them, authority for the rest of us how do we undermine the cruelty as the underlying proposition? we have to fight robustly for a

world that shatters the selfishness that makes the cruelty possible does that make sense >> totally and i think -- >> i'm stuck on that question. >> no, look, i think my mission in this two hours is to find evidence which way we're going i ask people all the time, who's winning? there's evidence in some of the school board races around the country, we focus coverage around them, around here we met some people who are unlikely heroes i want to read you something from politico that goes a little distance towards answering e eddie's question candidates trounce their opponents. the winning record that was noticeable where conservative candidates emphasized agendas based with race, gender identity and parental involvement in classrooms it's friday, 5:51, waiting for the supreme court. i am cautious about being

optimistic under these circumstances. but it seems like you make the choice stark, you know, i don't have all the answers, but if i have to choose between something cruel and kind, most people hopefully will choose the kinder route. do you think some of these electoral results can let us say that, that most people will reject cruelty >> i hope so that's a good spin on it i'll put it this way, i think you've got to fight. you've got to fight for it, right? you have to make your case and i think that the democrats were on their heels, particularly around covid and these school fights. i think there's a coalition of parents, rightly or wrongly, that wanted more opening in schools, et cetera, et cetera. >> every parent, let me just say -- every parent knew they were inadequate as teachers. >> exactly

that's for a show with more time but, you know, the republicans were on offense then here's what's happened in the meantime republicans tried to press that advantage to do a lot of insane stuff with these school boards all of a sudden it's like you want the person with the maga hat screaming at a school board meeting deciding the curriculum for your kid or your teachers deciding i think that there is similarly a large coalition of people that have decided we want the teachers deciding the curriculum, not the maga activist parents but you have to argue for that and turn people out to these school board elections you have to engage and the democrats are starting to do that >> republicans need voters to hate the teachers unions, but most people love their kid's teachers and so they need you to hate what you can't see and it's discordant with the experience in most people's lives. >> absolutely. how many of us can point to that

teacher that put something in us that laid the pathway for us to become who we are? even though you have republicans trying to demonize teachers, we know that every child, every parent knows that some are putting a crown above their child's head so we want to celebrate them at the heart of this, everyday, ordinary people, if we are going to have to fight, we are going to have to fight for right and fight against cruelty, period. >> i thinkha tt's right. i'll march with you on that. thank you so much for being here on a friday. thank you very much for this conversation another break for us we'll be right back. diarrhea. ♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief... when you need it most. ♪ well, the stock is bubbling in the pot ♪ ♪ just till they taste what we've got ♪ [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. now, where were we? [ cheering ] (water splashing)

hey, dad... hum... what's the ocean like? ♪ are there animals living underwater? ♪ is the ocean warm? yeah, it can be very warm. ♪ you were made to remember some days forever. we were made to help you find the best way there. ♪ how to grow more vibrant flowers: step one: feed them with miracle-gro shake 'n feed. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. how to grow delicious herbs: step one: use miracle-gro potting mix. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow.

i brought in ensure max protein, with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar and nutrients for immune health. ♪ one last thing today, it's a big one. a tease for next week. nbc news learned that is when joe biden is preparing to make his bid for re-election official the 2024 video announcement could come as soon as tuesday. joe biden has teased for months that he will make his reelection

campaign official at some point, but nbc news has learned that white house advisers and campaign staffers have been sent signals in recent days to "get ready. the timing is likely, anything but a coincidence. next year is the four-year anniversary of joe biden's 2020 campaign launch. another break for us we'll be right back. or...if your itchy eyes have you itching for a fight, it's not too late for another treatment option for thyroid eye disease, also known as t-e-d. to learn more, visit treatted.com that's treatt-e-d.com. progressive makes it easy to save with a quick commercial auto quote online. so you can get back to your monster to-do list. really? get a quote at progressivecommercial.com. when you have chronic kidney disease. there are places you'd like to be.

like here. and here. and here. not so much here. if you've been diagnosed with chronic kidney disease farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. a rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. and don't take it if you are on dialysis. put yourself in the driver's seat. make an appointment to ask your doctor for farxiga for chronic kidney disease. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪far-xi-ga♪ a man, his family, and his tractor, penny. these are the upshaws.

and this is their playground. there's a story in every piece of land, run with us on a john deere tractor and start telling yours.

thank you so much for letting us into your home for another week of shows. we are so grateful "the beat with ari melber" starts right now hi, ari. happy friday >> happy friday. thanks welcome to "the beat," everyone. i'm ari melber we begin this friday with some real big news. we have a very exciting show for you, i can tell you there's a couple of things coming up but the special counsel was back at it today. jack smith has been closing in on many aspects of these trump plots and he's again questioning one of the most senior people in trump's orbit as we have been reporting from the beginning of his political era, 2015 or so. all the way through the arraignment. we're ta