supreme court hasn't ruled i all of the issue of abortion since the conservative majorit decided to overturn roe v. wad less than a year ago as typical, when the supreme court makes a ruling on an emergency appeal, the more g i majority did not provide a opinion to explain that ruling nor do we know exactly how eac justice voted except for justices samuel alito an clarence thomas both of whom voted in the order that they dissented with the majority. but, this situation is far fro resolved the case will now go back to the fifth circuit court of appeals which is considered to be the most conservative court in that country where it wil be argued in front of a thre judge panel beginning on may 17th meanwhile, there are at leas two other cases regarding th legality of messy purse stone. in a separate case out o washington state, a judg recently ruled that the fd must preserve access to th pill although the ruling in tha case only pertains to the 17 states and the district of columbia that signed on as plaintiffs and just three days ago, genbiopro, the manufacturer of

the generic version of matthew stone filed a new lawsui against the fda in a bid t ensure that its product doesn' get pulled off the markets adding yet another strand of complication to this entir issue. because of how contentious and confusing and conflicting th situation has become in just a matter of days, it is almost guaranteed that regardless o how the fifth circuit rules in next month's hearing, it wil be appealed again and wind u back at the supreme court in a later date joined now by nancy nort president of the ceo the cente of reproductive rights nancy, good morning to you thank you for being with us on trying to get a sense for m viewers about where we are whe we woke up this morning. some say this is something t celebrate, others say we wer rolling backwards and we jus stopped rolling for the moment well let me just start with, i certainly am hugely relieved was last night, woke up this morning. still hugely relieved that a least for the next, i don' know, six weeks, two months we are going to be able to have

medication abortion, mifepristone, available as i was before this litigation was filed after tax means. that is really important it is important for patients across the country right now so that is the good news par of it. and there should be relief there. but, as you point out we are not out of the woods by an stretch of the imagination we shouldn't have ever bee here to begin with this lawsuit, manufactured organization founded i amarillo just to get this judg in texas that they knew woul rule with them, should've been thrown out at the outset so, it is troubling that we ar going to go through this whole appeals process in the fifth circuit. depending on which three judge and up in that panel either we will have a scen decision to throw this out o we will be back in this worl of false facts being promote and really this case shouldn't be here to begin with. >> so a lot of people like you

who have spoken with it said that they do expect will g back to the supreme court. we don't get much of the supreme court. it was a four-page decision. not detailed at all. we just know from two of the justices because they said tha they sent toledo and thomas. what is your sense, if you wer to read the tea leaves, what i going on because this is likely going t end up back at the supreme court. >> well, i have given up long ago trying to read the tea leaves. of the supreme court but, when you hear she jus recognizes that this is a very different world from the world of overturning roe v. wade which is a constitutiona decision wrong headed, but this is abou how a specific expert agency the food and dru administration which is give great deference and should be. this is just about administrative law and no rule around administrative law an whether or not when an agency, here the fda, makes a decision is it arbitrary income precious?

that is what they have to show this is our drink and coul crush is 23 years ago. they had the science, they had the evidence, and then that ha only gotten stronger that 23 years since as 5 million women have used medication abortion. as more studies have come out, as the world healt organization has found it to b an essential drug. so, it is a very different world from overturning roe v wade and any judge that looks a this, as a should under the la of administrative law, it ha no merit >> let's talk a little bit about what the solution look like the president says the solutio is going to be americans like congress that will codified th rights that we thought we held in under very versus wade. is that your view? >> well, we need to have the women's health protection act, which has been introduced in the house and senate, pass the house twice last year. with the exception of

filibuster we need to have that enacted so that we could restore the right to abortion in every single state in the united states in the district o columbia where it is a beloved out. we do that when it's all protection act they would need to be member of congress willing to do that and people are realizing now since the reversal of roe, tha congress does have the power t fix this >> how do people like this where the idea that th majority of americans believ that the access to abortio should be legal, which is very different question than whethe not you like abortion. that is not a relevant question i don't like getting m appendix out either but th right to have that done is something we need to preserve. how do you square the idea tha most americans do not want these restrictions, they demonstrate that in mid term elections, they've mehme demonstrated in wisconsin, and yet there are not the votes in congress or in the senate to get this done? >> well, it is just going to b a matter of time and it is going to be a matter of th vast majority of americans who support abortion rights an

making that support visible. and, what we are seeing is tha it is a fast changin environment. you look at this case and th mid upper stone, we had majo pharmaceutical companies comin in and not just saying let's make the regulatory process, but also weighing in on th fact that the approval of th person shown itself was valid. so we are going to see a lot o different actors coming into this the afl-cio supports the women's health protection act. that endorsement just came i when it was reintroduced so it is a changing environmen and the vast majority of the public needs to make tha support visible and we'll ge it done. >> what is your sense of the fact, you are distinction abou the administrative state or th administrative part of thi decision-making by the supreme court is crucial here. others would have you believ that it is not an overreach by the fda or degree just air b the fda, that it is a dangerou drug >> right, it is not whatsoever it has been proven again and

again to be safe and effective what i'm hoping is getting through, while there's a spotlight on this as mor americans understand that. that medication abortion is safe and effective method of ending a pregnancy and, righ now it can be done b telehealth with a health car provider so it is really important that people understand how availabl this is. because it is about a choice b most people in the unite states who decide to terminate a pregnancy. >> nancy, good to see. you nancy northam is the president and ceo of the cente for reproductive rights. joining me now kimberly atkins store, senior columnist with a boston globe opinion she is a co-host of the sister in law podcasts. an msnbc political analyst and understands the law intimately kimberly, good to see this morning. let's talk a little bit abou what happens next. we discuss with nancy some o the stuff that could happe politically down the road. but there is certainly in th next 3 to 6 weeks a very important legal row that we ar going down this case now is back to the fifth circuit court of appeals and there will be oral

arguments on may 17th. >> yes and that will be the next time that we will hear argument hashing this out of the fift circuit. i think that best way to think about this is the road to th supreme court. because, ultimately, this that is where this is going to en up it may take a couple troop there. maybe once on the procedural issues that we have been talking about. whether the state stays in place or traditionally at th end for the supreme court to rule on this more traditionall on the merits of this case that is likely going to happen next term because the suprem court has barely gotten throug its docket for this term i doubt that it would try to rush us and decide this before june but what we will see is likely if we are guessing, that the state that we have in plac keeping the status quo wil remain in place while all of these issues and not just this case out o texas that the other cases tha you mentioned out of washingto state that are directly in

conflicts in texas, that i creating literally chaos i terms of how that the person i characterized, its availability and it will be up to the supreme court ultimately t decide so, really this is just a wa to gain a bridge to that final decision >> so we always need to, whe thinking about supreme court decisions, think about unintended consequences here this is largely motivated by people he would like t restrict abortion access but the argument being used is that the fda had a fault processor that the drug is unsafe or that these decisio should be removed from the hands of the fda all of these could hav unintended consequences down the road the idea that we are allowin and testing in the should to b put aside for what seems to be political gain >> that is absolutely right. what we are seeing here is, ou judges and justices stepping

into a role that they were never supposed to be in. congress dousing needed to the executive the authority to regulate drugs in america. that is one reason we don't want different rule and different parts of the country. that would make it ver difficult for doctors, patients, for everyone so we have to vintage to the fda to their experts which drugs are approved and how the are distributed throughout the country. that is the way that this is set up what is actually happening her is that judges are stepping in and second guessing thos experts and saying, no, we don't think he should approv that drives first place 20 years ago. or, we think that thes additional regulations that yo imposed aren't right so in our judgment we are going to rol those back think about all the areas that could be affected. we already know that the supreme court in the past have sort of look to scans out th broad authority of the administrative state of th executive branch of thes agencies like the epa, for

example. this could be another exampl of that. and that means that any number of drugs could be in the crosshairs we can talk about cros contraception, we can talk about other things so, this could open up a big pandora's box depending on how the court rules at the end >> i wanna go deeper on this with you i think we'll have to have a different conversation about the administrative a state but on april 10th, following the initial ruling from judg kacsmaryk, you wrote in th boston globe what kaz merrick' order also does is get the conservative antiabortio extremist game away. there was nothin constitutionally principle about the decision to overturn roe v. wade. it was never about state rights, or substantive due process running back it was an outcome that drive ruling designed not only t legislator portion access from the bench but to open the door wide for other conservativ judges to follow suit. federal listen principles pete dammed, and quote. what is what you wrote there mean for the legitimacy of the supreme court in legal system?

because so many of us pin ou hopes to the idea that when th world gets too politicized maybe they will say this >> yeah, for 50 years, ali we have been told that the issue of abortion was one of the threats. it was something that took out of the hands of voters and individual states to decide fo themselves what sort of rule on abortion they wanted. and that was that. that was the basis of the jobs decision to cut down roe v wade not a minutes after the dobb decision came down you saw antiabortion activists saying, now we won a nationwide ban. which tells you everything tha you need to know this is an outcome driven push to rollback no access to abortion it had nothing to do wit states rights, nothing to do with federalism. the whole idea by the fda, tha is a federalism issue that the don't seem to care very much about. so this seems like wha conservatives want to do i reach an outcome and they will use whatever legal theory they want to get their, and that' what it wants to get there t get to the next step

this completely undermines wha the constitution is supposed t be this completely undermine th idea of originalism and keepin to the true meaning of constitutional construction, this is activism i don't even call. it's >> the things that th conservatives often warned would happen if you put liquid on the supreme court kimberly, good to see my friend kimberly atkins store into the senior columnist for the bosto globe opinion and msnb political analyst. isaac newton's third of motion say deeds that for every actio there's an equal opposit reaction fox news's and the foam pillow guy found that their actions spreading lies about the 202 presidential election, hav reactions and price you want that plus, more republicans are jumping into the presidentia race, but does anyone othe than trump have a past nomination now that maga seems to be the core tenets of the party? at seven months after hurrican iran, the recovery continues t commemorate earth day the city of cape coral florida is introducing its, it' conducting a mouth of citywide

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conceived of as a radical call for change to spread awareness about the dangers of pollution 53 years ago president biden marked the day yesterday with both words an our action issuing an executiv order to create a white hous office of environmental justic to coordinate environmenta efforts across the government. now, the order ver specifically direct federa agencies to invest invest in disadvantaged communities that are disproportionately affecte by climate change an pollution. meanwhile, the city of cap coral florida also takin action it is a community that has bee devastated by the effects of climate change of the severe weather that it causes in december, the city of cap coral florida was battered b hurricane ian and much of th debris from the storm remained

straight about to this day this day, the community is planning a citywide cleanup. nbc's stephanie stanton is i cape coral this morning. stephanie, good morning to you what are the specifics o the earth plan there and wha is the overarching goal of it? >> yeah, good morning to you ali and happy earth day. as you said, hurricane ian mad landfall here seven months ago in the cape coral area and i caused massive and widesprea devastation. what is also interesting i that the national hurrican center, you may not know this, but earlier this month actuall reclassified in as a categor five so, a monster storm more tha 100 people died as a result. and that storm caused more tha 100 million dollars in damage. so, to commemorate earth day a he said, the city of cape cora is doing a widespread cleanup. volunteers are coming here fro all around, and they are focusing that cleanup on the smaller trashing today which still remains in many parts of the city here's a couple of interesting facts that you may not kno

provided to us by the city o cape coral hurricane ian was the fift largest storm in u.s. history. it basically left behind 4.5 years of construction an demolition debris, and seven years of vegetated debris. and officials tell us, while a lot of the major work is still being done and has been cleane up, the major larger structures, there's still a lot of smaller debris that remains. >> i've been coverin hurricanes for probably clos to 20 years and, interesting that you mentioned that wa recast classified to a categor five it was the fifth larges storm. because as i was there coverin in, i was thinking to myself this thing feels a lot bigge than we thought it was thank you for the coverage o this we appreciated, stephani stanton in cape coral florida. meanwhile, we've got breakin news regarding the deadl conflict unfolding in th nation of sudan. in a statement, the united states embassy in cartoon says quote to the uncertain securit situation in car to end th

closure of the airport, it i not currently safe to undertak a u.s. government herniate evacuation private u.s citizens that follows a statement mad by sudan's army chief saying that the troops woul facilitate the evacuation of american and other foreign diplomats and citizens in th horine coming hours. the pentagon has started i deploying additional troop into booty in the event than evacuation personnel as needed and meanwhile, nbc news ha learned from two sources familiar with the planning tha the biden ministration i leaning towards evacuating u.s government personnel fro sudan. there are several dozen u.s. diplomats there, but many more private u.s. citizens includin about 16, 002, many of whom ar dual nationals more than 330 people died in the fighting which erupted several weeks ago between tw generals who were vying fo control of the country we will follow this fast movin situation and bring you th latest as it comes in. well, you know the old grade school adage that raised o

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it's guaranteed. feed your lawn. feed it. full glimpse of the big mone behind the big lie starting to dominion votin systems forces fox news, and what was meant to be the media trial of the century fox avoided the republican embarrassment of a weeklon trial in an on air apology after an 11th hour settlemen with domains lawyers fox still get it where it hurt though, having to shell ou almost 700 and $88 million for knowingly feeding its audience lies about the 2020 election for context, that is the biggest known media defamation settlement in history. at least for now to mitchell has a handful of suits against members of trump's inner circle, one of them get to just a second. and the other voting companies suing fox news, smart, matting is asking for more than triple

that and smartmatic does want it to go to trial. now, speaking speaking setting your own money and fire, america's most famous foam pillow salesman mike lindell was so sure of his 202 election fraud claims that h dangled $5 million in front of anyone who could prove otherwise. he even gave a creative name the prove mike wrong and challenge. lionel launched the contes back in 2021, at a cyber symposium in north dakota just months after joe biden's white house when he assured the crowd that no one in the room could refute his data showing that china ha interfered in the 2020 race. a 63-year-old software exper from nevada took a stab at it. >> within a few hours, i slipped out of the room wher everybody was looking over the data i went back to the hotel t write up a report. and i called my wife and i talked to her quietly and said, start thinking about wha you want to do with $5 million >> that man, robert seidman,

ended up being the sole entr in the prove mike wron challenge and prove him wron he did zeidman, who voted for trump himself, concluded that th data was nonsensical and unrelated to the 2020 race and at times looked like someone had quote, randoml typed letters into a wor document, and quote. two absolutely no one's or surprise, lindell refused to pay up now he is being force to after a panel ruled against in this week lies can be expensive. it can be even more expensiv when the man on whose behalf you are spreading lies is th former leader of the free worl and has so far escaped consequence himself. but, are we starting to see shift? accountability for those who lied for trump, because of trump, or for their own gain joining me now is chris matty. he is a former assistant u.s attorney he has gone head to head with known proven peddler of lights alex jones backing of ever he won the case against alex jones and infowars representin the surviving family members o sandy hook chris, good to see you again i'm glad you got a night o sleep. yet i djokovic of hours ago.

let's talk about this. the alex jones case was, lik tennis, it was obvious it was not complicated stuff and yet, people had intel thes liars to account until those sandy hook families decide that they would. tell me how you won that cas and what was novel about it? what is novel about holdin letters to account -- >> well, the reality is that w had a defamation cases going back before the constitution was even signed. because our founders recognize that allies deserve no protection in a democracy. and so, what we looked at wher the statement alex jones had made over many years, callin the families actors, sayin that they were a part of a plo to strip americans gun rights. and we knew that nobody in the right mind would ever believ that the shooting was faked. and so when we brought ale jones to trial, he was force to defend those lies not a fan of his audience whic takes what he says chapters, but in front of a neutral jury that used their common sense

and understood not only that the lines were so obvious, but the damage that they cost wa so catastrophic over many many years. and so, these cases often don' see the inside a courtroom when they do, it i extraordinarily compelling because ordinary peopl recognize and are tied at very young age how bad lying is and these days, when lines are spread across social media t such catastrophic extent, they are even more harmful. >> 788 billion dolla settlement with a lot of money it is not actually enough to sink or close an operation lik fox. but certainly, the settlemen or the ruling that you got against alex jones, 1.4 billio dollars, should have bee enough to sink him several times over what is the status of gettin that money from alex jones >> well, it is no surprise tha alex jones of enforcemen bankruptcy protection. as soon as they realized the were going to be here with a number like this we are down in the souther district of texas in bankruptc court fighting every day t

make sure that alex jones does not get the shelter of bankruptcy court that good faith but bettors ordinarily get. and we are confident that as that process goes on, alex jones personally and infowar will have to pay every penny that is available to these families but it takes a little bi longer than it should. >> >> do you cases like this the fox settlement, th smartmatic case, do they put a chill online do you think that people wil lie less or that liars wil feel a little bit left in bold and as a result? >> i think we have a big corporate media organization like fox, this will act as a deterrent for a time but you have to understand tha there is a whole far-right ecosystem largely on line that is spreading lies like thi every day. so i think what you are goin to be seeing is more more case being brought agains podcasters, online outlets that really specialize i promoting disinformation and are doing so in a way that

is taking advantage of socia media platforms like twitter fast facebook, truth social, and others to spread those lies and what we really need to get to is a point where thos platforms can be hel accountable for the virality o the content that they pushed out. and that is why there ar innovative lawyers right now seeking ways to bring cases to get around section 2:30. and i hope congress will actually reform section 2:30 because these online socia media platforms are really the fuel that allow flies to do th damage that they do the states >> so this is probably a bigge bites than we can chew off for this conversation and we can d it again but you say that lies pu deserve no protection. our founding fathers thought that and others that chauvi themselves in these cases, including auctions and fox, sa we have a first amendment. you are constitutionally led t live we are truth on that >> right i mean, obviously the firs amendment is brought in that scope and it is designed t promote different ideas,

different opinions, either ver unpopular opinion so the peopl can choose for themselves th point that they want to hold but the first amendment ha never protected lives. and that is for supposedly a reason in a democracy rely on the population to distance to be well informed in order to make decisions that affect thei lives. they can't do that if they are doing it based on lies and dishonesty and that is why the firs amendment holds the line whe it comes to deceit and dishonesty what we are seeing right now i a push back against these lies and dishonesty but we are also seeing the diversity of cost. it is no coincidence that we had a january 6th insurrection following lies about tha election that is what lies lead to. violence, disintegration o democratic society and that is why the firs amendment notably doesn' permit alive, but the firs amendment is supposed to stand against lies >> chris, it is good to talk to you thank you for being on wit us twice in 24 hours chris mattie's former assistan

of the united states - and the lawyer for the sandy hook families in the alex jone defamation case. coming, up republica presidential hopefuls ar converging in iowa today can anyone let russell the party of lincoln and raega away from donald trump we will discuss that next, o velshi velshi helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. ♪♪ open talenti and raise the jar to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to flavors from the world's finest ingredients. and now, from jars to bars. new talenti gelato and sorbetto mini bars. ♪♪

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2024 gop primary race wher voters get familiar candidates most of the big names will b there to deliver speeches. there are some notable absence this year. both nikki haley and ron desantis, whose has no officially declared that he is running, yet are skipping. yet but donald trump, though appearing virtually, is stil considered the headliner he is set to close out the event tonight. despite indictment, and litany of other legal woes either most of which would tak other political careers and th fact that he lost last election donald trump remains the overwhelming favorite for th nomination this time around. according to a wall street journal poll last week, trum pulled in 48% of the support among likely republican primar voters the next person closest to him is desantis, who is 24 point behind desantis was once again, onc considered trump's strongest potential competitor, but in a hypothetical head to hea matchup, trump is now double digits on the florida governor 51% to 38% in fact, more voters backe trump today than they di before he was indicted when the same poll was taken

back in september, decembe desantis having a double digit lead over trump of 14 points but, it has been a tough tough week for rhonda scent as he wa trying to beat trump at his ow game a strategy that filled i spectacular fashion this wee as trump has bee systematically peeling off support in desantis's ow backyard trump has now won the suppor at the majority of florida's congressional delegation including the representative who took over on desantis's ow seat in congress and one particularly humiliating case earlier thi week, a texas congressma endorsed donald trump on his way out of his meeting with ro desantis in washington but, there are republica hopefuls who seem to be trying to carve out a space as an alternative to trumpism. trump's own former running mat and vice president mike penc and south carolina senator tim scott are leaning into the conservative christian value that once drove their voters t the polls. but, the folks at politico are making a strong case thi weekend that that evangelica lane of the republican party n longer exists.

that trump has effectively killed off the notion of the republican values for. writing in part, quote, though evangelicals were initiall skeptical of trump, he's reall gained their trust his running mate in 2016, pence, gave them permission to look past his crude remarks and his reputation for philanderin among other concerns and to embrace trump as an unlikely but effective champio of their top moral causes. with trump's election as somewhat only glancingly 4 million with the fate, evangelicals no longer rely on kate kicking a candidate theological tires, and quote so the question becomes, how could anyone russell the republican party away from trump if it doesn't work t take over trump's own lane, an it doesn't work to work in another lane traditionally americas two mai political parties have tried t be big tents with lots o different issues and values as part of thei platforms to help attract lots of different types of voters but donald trump has turned th gop into a one lane that muc smaller tent party that comes with personality,

really when the party's only real value is maga, it is hard to imagine anyone other tha donald trump leading it. joining me now to discuss this jennifer reuben, an opinio writer for the washington post an msnbc political analyst and the author of renaissance, resistance how women sav democracy from donald trump. also joining as, hubert evens. a senior adviser for the lincoln project. he served as chief strateg used for mitt romney's 201 presidential campaign. he is author of the book, it was all a lie. how the republican party becam donald trump welcome to both of you and i invite you both to pok holes in that thesis but, stewart, let me start wit you. because when mitt romney ran fundamentally it was still a much bigger tent party, and yo knew who written mitt romney was. and most people of asked about him and his priority could probably identify him. where are these lanes now an who can own them in th republican party >> look, i think you nailed it when mitt ran, it is reall fascinating to look back i retrospect you could see this craziness i

the republican party and, we would sit in these rooms and look at these an basically there was nothing yo can do about it. you had to sort of come to thi and say, if the party was goin to go crazy, it was going to a crazy. you can adjacent we shouldn't try to get out in front of that. and romney ran on the economy, and basically take the positio in the primary if you are going to beat me, you have to beat me on the economy. and eventually nobody did. but it was not a prett process. it came down to brick center a and new to gingrich. not exactly giants of th political world. i think the hardest thing to accept is the republican party has not been hijacked. the republican became what i wanted to be and, donald trump is a logical representation of that and since marjorie taylo greene, they are sort of mayer images of each other they are angry, they'r outrageous, they are not involved at all in the process of governing

and they represent a increasing minority of where america is and certainly where it is going. >> so jennifer, let's look a the people who have stunts ability running against donald trump right now. ron desantis has staked ou donald trump's lane. he wants to be donald trump in that lane. mike pence, as we, said gave permission to evangelicals and people of faith to say, hey, you can look pass to donal trump's stuff. tim scott, he had an opportunity years ago to establish a lane he simply didn't same thing with nikki haley. what happens now there are all sorts of peopl who have very are runnin against donald trump, but he has a remarkable ability t pick people off one at a time. >> he really does. and, let's face. that i take a little bit of jo in predicting that ron desanti was going to crash and burn. he is a jerk, and it is hard t disguise being a jerk when you are running for president of the united states. he just is not ready for primetime. and, i think the disney episod

is going to look like a little marco episode in retrospec making him seem small and pett and rather silly, frankly. so the question is, is there a alternative? and, i think that it must come around to the position tha they do is which is, i'm not sure there is that is what the republican is that the republican party an its allies at fox news and the right-wing media have done suc a bang up job of radicalizing, lying to their base, that that is what these people now believe. and that is what they want and now the monster, lik frankenstein, is out o control. what, we are going to tell these people, we need someone little less crazy in order t win? they are not interested. are you going to tell thes people, we actually have t have a plan for governing? they have been told for ho many years, you don't. this is all about performance. so, this is a problem of their own making and, i am increasingly skeptical that they will fin someone who, first of, all hands i don't want to say th

gravitas there is no gravitas the republican party but kind of the strength, th moxie to actually take o trump. everyone is so darn scared o him and is so afraid of th mean tweets and frankly hi very radicalized supporters wh are, as we, no armed to th teeth. that no one really wants t take a swing but, beyond that, they don't stand for anything it is not enough to say i am trump but less crazy who wants that if you want trump and you want crazy, lie would you want less of that? and then at these people, yo could absolutely come up with list of proposals, a list of ideas. they have. none none of these people have a tax plan, they don't have health care plan that is not their business government for them is just an opportunity to perform, to get on fox news, to gin up the bas and to ravel rows. and, frankly, they have become what the democrats long accuse them of being. homophobic, racist, xenophobic

and now they are stuck wit these people so, maybe trump will be th nominee after all of this. but, i will say with great confidence that he onl represents about 30, 35% of th electorate as a whole. so that is no way to govern. it's no way to put togethe more like an electoral majority and getting behind him it ma satisfy the republicans, but then they are looking for bruising in 2024 and, god help those down-ticke reach up to republicans becaus they are going to get wiped ou too. >> we're gonna talk about, tha will talk about what is goin on in the states we come back. jennifer reuben a jury stevens stay with. me i will continue thi conversation after a quick break. break. ♪ (vo) love is bigger than ever. the three-row subaru ascent. dog tested. dog approved.

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of talking about the ballo race

i wanna talk about down ballot in state race. where, we get obsessed wit these presidential races, bu the important stuff happens at the state level, for local level, and that is eve crazier. then some of what we are seeing we are seeing some of thes republican legislatures. we are seeing what they did in tennessee the other couple weeks ago. and, it is entirely normal t do that. in fact, there are majoritie and super majorities o republicans in these state which don't match th populations. but, some of them ru unopposed. the country is coming apart at the threads at the local and state level. >> look, i think that we hav to grasp the fact that this is just the beginning we are not at the end of anything political parties take o personalities like sport teams. and the personality of the republican party is very aggrieved, it is very angry. it feels that if it can do something because it's a house of power, that gives them th right to do something. all of the kind of norma guardrails of, we are not goin to do this because it is wrong

it will be bad in the long term those are all just thrown away i mean, at the essence o democracy, if somebody has t be willing to lose and, the republican has decide that it is not willing to lose so we now live in a world in which the majority o republicans do not believe tha they have a legally electe president. so, they don't believe tha they believe that they live in a democracy. and we have never had a divide like this before in th country. and i don't think it has reall hit us what it means that the 24 election is goin to be not amount to partie with different political views it is going to be about on party that is trying to depose an illegal occupier, and the other. so, there is no history of any democratic movements becomin more democratic when they ge empowered. >> yes, it is always the other way around >> so jennifer, what happens to. u.n.i. have had this discussio a lot of times i keep asking the same question,

i will be no defense in on day. what happens to people who are libertarians they like small government they are old-fashioned conservatives. and i don't mean that pejorative way i just mean, it may have polic that they don't really want to vote for democrat. they will, because they're o the same side of democracy i democrats. what is the, four years, eight years of waiting like, at some point does thi existing republican party sort of fizzle? because if you look at the state level, it doesn't look like this republican party i in danger. >> no. and, still raises a really important point which is that, at the state level they have used gerrymandering to such an extent that they have gotten themselves into office where they are beyond really control at least with the senate and in some, states in congressional districts ther is an opportunity to hol people accountable in the states there's no way t hold people accountable becaus they have carved out those districts in such a way that people really don't have a choice about who they vote for so, i think it is going to tak

a very very long time for them to come out of this. i have never been one who said that the fever was just goin to break one day, or that they will come to their senses. it is going to take, i, thin cycles and cycles of losing at the national level before they kind of get the idea that this is a losing proposition and it gets harder to raise money whe you're always losing and, it is less fun when you are always losing. so, this is a long trudg through the muck that we are all going to have to live with and, as obvious as it seem that donald trump is totally unfit to be president, totally morally, intellectually, i every way you can name shoul not be in the white house, i he is the nominee he will ge millions and millions of votes and that is what continually scares me. is that there is a very larg segment of america that is n longer reachable by reasons, b moral persuasion, and i totall agree with the political cas

the position that he began the segment with, the ha essentially what these peopl have become is not christian voters or values voters, the become racial and cultural warriors and they look upon politics no as existential threat to white power. and, when you look at it i those terms, what is democracy mean we are fighting for ou survival we are fighting for wester civilization and when you hear that, th alarm bells go off because tha means that they have to find western civilization and america in such a way in which they have all the power. >> those used to be french views in the republican part and now they are central to th operation. thanks to both of, you as, always we are shaded jennifer reuben is an opinio writer for the washington post and ennis nbc analyst. and author of the book resistance stuart is a chief strategist

for mitt romney's presidential campaign and the author of the book, it was all a lie, how th republican party became donald trump. well, that does it for me. thank you for watching catching back here tomorro morning from 10 am to noon eastern. dover get velshi is availabl as a podcast subscribe and listen for fre wherever you get your podcasts stay tuned, richard louis pick up our coverage right after quick break. quick break. that's why you choose vmware. with flexible multi-cloud services that enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you keep your cloud options open. (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good.

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