to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. >> then velshi, majo comcast business. powering possibilities™. developments dan fierce fighting has broken between rival generals who are supposed to be working to give him the country over t civilian rule. late last night, president biden announced of the unite states military has evacuate

americas diplomatic personne from the u.s. embassy in the capital city of khartoum there are still thousands of private american citizens stuc amid the fighting. we're following the stor closely. going to bring in the latest throughout the next two hours. mike pence is finally come out strongly against donald trum on one key issue, not the on you think. we'll get the latest from iowa where they both spoke to conservative evangelicals last night. for today's meeting of the velshi banned book club, we're paying tribute to the public library. once a community fixture, safe haven to explore differen worlds and learn new ideas, it has become the battleground fo the ideological fight over books. nowhere are libraries unde greater threat than in texas that's where we're heading t talk to shirley robinson executive director of the texa library association about th fight for the freedom to redeveloped she starts now it is sunday april 23rd, i'm ali velshi we begin with the republican

presidential primary takin shape this weekend a republican candidates an hopefuls flock to the annual iowa faith and freedom coalition spring kickoff event to court the evangelical vote. former president donald trum joined the event virtually while the former vice presiden mike pence and south carolin senator tim scott or expecte to join the race appeared in person one notable perspectiv candidate, florida governor ro desantis, was nowhere to b seen we got a brand-new polling thi hour nbc news four's national pol ahead of the 2024 presidential election we're gonna get to tha momentarily. of all the candidates potentia candidates who appear on stage in iowa last night, no one has a strategy that seems likely t succeed with republican primar voters except one that is donald trump the disgraced twice impeache ex president who lost his part the past three elections and i now made history as the firs former president to be criminally indicted. hard to believe that the perso to whom that a resume is attached is the person who

murrell can voters would continue to choose to represen them the gop by all appearances remains at donald trump' party. arbery knew nbc pollin released just this past hour shows that 68% of republican primary voters believe that th investigations into donald trump are politicall motivated. they are designed to stop hi from being president again and that they must support him and now to stop his opponent from winning does 26% say that given th investigation into donald trum importance emanated candid who will not be distracted someone else should be nominated who can focus only o beating joe biden. such a cool like following thi hard to beat, as you can see florida governor ron desanti is once seen as trump's most formidable challenger spent th week losing endorsements and fighting with disney as he trails trump by 15 points. he is by far the closest o trump's heels. mike pence is --

40 points behind - but he's been hinting at a presidential run for months. he's been seen according evangelical voter, spendin recent sunday speaking i churches around the country. writing a book all about his fate and now showing up in a big wa at this weekend's christia conservative gathering in iowa so far, pence has been hesitan to directly take on donald trump in any meaningful way. last night, pence specifically pointed to an issue where he disagrees with his former boss and that is on abortion. some donald trump ha reportedly said he thinks th issue is best left - left up to the states which is what conservative supreme cour justices agreed with a las year in overturning roe v. wade and it's resulted in draconian abortion pants and state regimes a forced birth takin over huge swaths of this country. it has also been deepl unpopular with the america people but for pence, doesn't go fa enough he wants the federal governmen to ban abortion so it is not a safe anywhere. >> i would certainly support

any pro-life legislation tha came before. me i do think it's more likely that this issue is resolved at the state level but i don' agree with the former presiden who says this is the state only issue we've been given a new beginning for life in this country. i think we have an opportunity to advance the sanctity of life move it ever closer to the center of american law supreme court didn't turn th issue of abortion with the states, they turn it over to the american people. >> pence was definitel delivering this very message t the one place in the country that it would seem likely to resonate among deeply conservativ evangelical voters in iowa but if it strategy is to make play for the religious right it's, not working so far for mr. 6% the post political - making the case that the value voter ring in the republican party simply doesn't exist anymore. mike pence himself with hi real evangelical street cred

gave evangelicals the cover to overlook donald trump's obviou moral failings and now those voters are jus mega voters. in spite of all of his losse in liabilities, there are stil plenty of those voters i donald trump's party for des moines iowa, and we se capitol hill - my friend ali vitale for thi version of the ali v. segment. she is the author th remarkable book electable. why america hasn't been a woma in the white house yet longtime political journalis and friend michael ashore also georges good morning for bot of you ali, you have been a speakin specifically to these voters who are gathering at this firs big gathering of conservativ evangelicals tell me what your hearing. >> i think it's really fascinating. especially as we track specifically on this issue o abortion we watch of close the way that it played out in the 202 midterms that something when i talk t republican operatives in washington, it's a lesson they won't soon forget. when you look at the way tha

these candidates are now being forced to talk about thi issue. in large part because as candidates don't want to set their own parameters on this i mean that for people like ti scott and others who last week when i interviewed them abou this, said that he would sig literally in his words the mos restrictive ban or the mos conservative band that congres could send him when republican candidates don't set the parameters, ali, state legislatures will do tha for them it's why we're seein republican candidates no forced to respond to six-wee fans, outright bans. in the case of trump and pence now, this really fascinating dichotomy happening where ther is a clear push to be to the right of former presiden donald trump on the issue of abortion even though at gatherings like this one i anticipate that i would find most voters who want to hear rhetoric like that apparently, not a so watch. >> i think that some of ou republican friends have gone too far in a saying absolutely not.

being a woman, with thre granddaughters and one daughter, i definitely have an opinion that if something would happen incest or rape, absolutely tha avenue should be available >> do you think the abortion pill should be banned? >> no, i don't think it should be banned because again, i somebody finds out there pregnant and it was incest o rape, absolutely, whatever w can to help them with, w should >> look, you heard from that voter there, ali, th fascinating way that this is playing out among voters, even conservative evangelicals ther who would attend an event like this one on a saturday night nine months before the caucus. it is not a clean winner for conservative republicans t talk about being restrictive o abortion and the more they have to talk about it in a primary, the harder it becomes than in general election to. we're talking short term gam and long term political game o this too >> that's the interesting part

about this michael, help us handicap. this you got - roe first, you had lindsey graham saying let's do this in congress what's been abortion as congressional priority mitch mcconnell said no way, not in her getting near this thing. you've got at least legislatures as ali said tha are much more conservative generally speaking than th republican party writ large. you've got tim scott sayin hillside the most restrictiv abortion stuff you can get you have mike pence really leaning into this. alleys right, might get yo some primary voters. it's not where the america public is. >> it's not where the public i and it's not - i'm sure ali was there as well in 2015 when i was in iowa covering this thing. you had at these primary voter who said absolutely, they woul not ever vote for donald trump because of where he stands o conservative values. dad went back a year later whe he was the nominee in the roya saying okay, we can do it, w can hold our noses and do this we can elect somebody who will give us our judges, ou justices he did that, he gave them thre

supreme court justices now, this is a group of people that has voted for donald trum twice in the general in 2016 in the general in 2020 it doesn't mean that their beliefs are they looted. but in fact, it means they are less likely to be bringing somebody like donald trump given what they asked for. as to what ali was coverin this weekend at the conference these are people that ar trying to figure out a way after seeing what happened i the 2022 midterms. trying to figure out a way t make this issue play nationally make it play in a presidential election without compromisin their own conservative beliefs not something they do very well >> use an expression that some of these candidates, these people running for president against all trump to want to set their own parameters they're getting the jostle right a little bit on the list of people who ar likely candidates or declare candidates you go down that list and ther are people with that opportunities to set the parameters -- mike pence did have parameters

once when he was a governor, when he was a member o congress tim scott has not really carve out a lane for himself in th last few years donald - rhonda sentences latest look a much like donald trump as he can. a gates asa hutchings -- carded his own line. chris christie targeting back. in he's a guy who's taking strong positions that ar against all trump. dawn from still running so far ahead of everyone else how does this play out >> elie? >> i think it plays out kind o how the polls are showing it's gonna play out i am of the minds that partl because i covered trump in 201 and 2016 and we just watch wha happens over the course of a primary. it's hard to predict nin months in advance. at the same time, at the polls have been so consistent. i also think the striking thin is the ways that what i'm doin my other day job in washington on the hill. there are still republicans wh might i want to talk about trump. but they will certainly not

speak against trump. the fact that we're seeing day after day, rolling out more an more endorsements is the fac that he's trying to show tha he is still the de facto ahead of this party. frankly, no one that i can fin in washington. is willing to tell me an different at this point. i think the other thing that striking to me is that if yo look at our new nbc poll that' out this morning, yes, the horse race stuff is really fascinating. i also think there's one particular number there. that really caught my attentio which is the 47% of american who say that they're going t vote for the eventua republican a nominee and it takes me back to th main lesson that i learned after 2020 and that i really been focused on and put al these elections through th months of after. which is that in 2020, yes more people voted. yes, it was unprecedented fo so many reasons. donald trump earned more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016. joe biden won more votes tha both of them, certainly, he' the president of the unite states i think it's something to pray for -- all of a secret mightily tha even after the four years of the trump administration, vote still wanted more trump and

do think that even though he i now someone who has been twice impeached, wants indicted, all of those things should b working against him. these polling numbers take all of that into account and still almost half the country says they would vote for th eventual republican nomine knowing full well that the polls tell them that is likely to be donald trump >> let's talk about that par of things, michael, the idea that a 68% a republican primar voters believe that the charge against all trump ar politically motivated and that it is their responsibilities t stand between politicall motivated charges agains former president and anythin else >> that's clear. that number is overwhelmin 68%. you also look at this when you talk about these other candidates whether it be team scarred o asa hutchinson even iran desantis in particular the ones that ar looking for that language we talked about these are people that have sai that they're there to unify th party. that they need to go back to

bring the republican party together the republican party according to this poll and according to lot of the reporting that i'll easton the republican parties prett unified and are unified behind this guy whatever comes his way, they'r trying to stand in the way up. he's our active primary voters of the republican party. these are not independents these are not democrats that we're talking about -- what it does give is the sense that there is -- a shield around donald trump -- afraid to get in between you have something like chri christie - terribly lost all of trump - he seems to be somebody who is not afraid to attack donal trump. those sorts of things ma happen but it doesn't seem lik it's going to be easy for hi to break this wall >> thanks to both of you, grea to see you both, thanks fo being with us this early morning here both of you at earlier times

and so we are so we appreciate it nbc's aly battalion des moines iowa, political journalist michael shore. we're following breaking news, by the way, out of sudan where u.s. embassy staff have been evacuated from the capital o khartoum as a tense and deadly fighting between two warring factions o exonerated the latest in just a bit plus just how bag should congress be? right now, one house membe represents about 700,000 peopl more or less depending on th state. i know matt wizard but tha seems like a lot of people for one member of congress t effectively represent. later on, all beach on by th democratic governor of washington to -- discuss how freedom sugges another word for who's running your state on this week's meeting the velshi banned book club, w focus on the importance of libraries and librarians amids new attempts to defund and eliminat tedhem across the country. nt -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer

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i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. >> when the founders wer that and the paycheck. establishing the first iterations of the u.s.

government, the purpose of the house of representatives was proportional representation. it wasn't its only function in the founders eyes, federalis papers, james madison wrot that those elected in the hous are quote to be the great body of the people of the unite states, and quote. the washington post columnis daniel allen has written extensively on the need fo house reform in a recent column, she points out some key principles that the founders hope the house of representatives would ensure two of those principles were popular sovereignty, meaning that the government is at th will of the people and do dependence on the people meaning the representative would be beholden to their voters rather than to thei donors -- the principle of popular sovereignty pointed toward a governmental frame that it would flex and adjust with the ever-changing shape of the people the house was supposed t provide the necessar elasticity turning, over every two years and continuously growing and quote. when the house was established the founders decided that they

would have won a representativ per 35,000 constituents. with each state having a least one representative initially the house wa designed to have - congress supposed to grow an reapportioned some of th population of the nation increased and shifted and it did. until about 100 years ago in congress capping are of ou positives at 435 somewhat arbitrarily despite 100 years and nearly 200 million more america citizens, the says the house o representatives hasn't changed today it, house members ar present roughly 762,000 people each 20 times more than initially designed by the founder. that number is on track to reach 1 million by mid century similarly operating develope nations including in a group called the organization fo economic cooperation and development, america is th only democracy that has no adjusted the size of thi legislative assembly we have the highes representation ratio of an comparable democracy by a very long shot.

again, our average numbe constituents per representativ since and more than 760,000. at the next highest comparable nation is japan, the ratio i roughly a third of hours neil allen lays out curious wh a bigger house would serve principles, our founding principles with an average of more than 750,000 people per represent constituents are almos completely removed from thei elected officials. there aren't enough resource for office to properly mee constituent needs. impossible for lawmakers t actually understand at the wants a needs of the peopl that they are supposed t represent. not only because of the shee size of each district becaus of are often dictated by a lot of - the loudest voice in the roo and powerful and highl organized political action and lobbying groups, the loudest voice in the room is often whe has the most money, no necessarily the voice of the people more seats means more options. more opportunities for a presentation a wider range of viewpoints in a body that more closely reflects the people represents

those who oppose house expansion might be like th founders apparently were concerned about the capacity o their physical building. there is also a real hesitatio about a bigger government. one of your house be able to get anything done. it wouldn't really get u closer to congress being a bod of the people? one thing is clear by effectively representin more people, elected officials are beholden to fewer. subway keeps upping their game with the subway series. an all-star menu of delicious subs. like #6 the boss. meatballs with marinara and pepperoni.

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the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. they need their lawn back fast and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass. it grows grass 2 times faster than just seed alone. giving you a stronger lawn. smell that freedom, eh? get scotts turf builder rapid grass today, it's guaranteed. feed your lawn. feed it. >> for the break, i talk about the size of congress about the general purpose of the house o representatives was to represent american proportionally as the american population i grown, the size of the house has not. daniel allen, a columnist fo the washington post writes extensively about this whatever recent piece is title just how big should the hous be let's do the math. daniela joins me now she's a director of the -- ethics for - founder of the alamo for democracy renovation at harvar and authoritarian book including upcoming justice b

means of democracy danielle, thank you for bein with us. >> my pleasure, thank, you ali he did a great job reviewing the issue just now i really appreciate that >> thanks to you for publishin on this. it makes us think about things that we don't often thin about. i think the reaction of most people if you asked him is w have way too many people i congress they don't get enough done there. when you look at other countries, you compare them, they have a lot more representatives. give me a sense of wha expanding the house would do for the american people. >> that's right, it's true, lot of people do say i can't stand congress as it is. what are you talking about danielle more of them really come o now. or they'll say haven't thought about that at all. that's really interesting idea it's true that you make th comparison to other countries. you realize the britis parliament is bigger than ou house of representatives is. -- populations are much smaller they still have functionality. the important thing is that if we could shrink the size o districts again. bringing representatives close

to their constituents. you will get mor responsiveness you will get bette constituents services. you also get what the founders called to dependence on th people it'll mean it's easier to hold elected officers accountable money will have less influence than it currently doesn't ou politics >> one of the things you write about is the impact of socia media has had on democracy that social media fundamentall undermines the role of the representative here's what he wrote james madison anticipated that the breath of a broader public are very reversing mountains would protect against th formation of dangerous faction because will be hard for peopl with extreme views to find eac other and to coordinate. because a geographic dispersal people would have to go to representatives to get their views into the public sphere and this would mitigate th impact of faction, and quote tell me about that >> absolutely. the beginning idea, th founders were very concerned about factionalism and tribalism. they lived through a polarized

time full of conflict as well. in the 1780s, the firs congress couldn't get a quorum they couldn't pass a budget. they couldn't pay war debts. they worked on the constitution they decided to write th constitution to solve thos problems the solution was supposed to b a stronger system of her presentation that meant not director mark received but it was also the idea that geographic is partia itself would keep people wit extreme views from fightin each other they would have to go throug representatives to get their views into the public sphere that doesn't work anymore. we cannot depend on geographic dispersal to be a break on factions. we have to find othe approaches increasingly says the house, having smaller districts wil help i think of this partly a solving the george santo problem. why was it possible for george santos to get through with eve a fraud that he had his record partly because there was n direct knowledge of him within the community of people voting for him. we could bring that ratio down again. we cannot restore the notion

that people are more connected to their constituents. their constituents can know wh they are we can better process who' getting elected into office. >> you co-chair the bipartisan commission on democrac renovation with the american academy of arts and sciences. the commission published our report and it floats seven a potentia path to expanding the house. depending on which one you loo at, it could increase the hous from a 500,000 - 500 members one of the plant as more than 900 representatives of some of these options rely o historic ratios. if you take the founding ratio of 35,000 constituents per representative, you and avoi about 9000 representatives what a path makes more sense and how big should we get? >> there are two realistic pas on the table right now both put forward by members of congress representative - from oregon has put forward number of 585 based on what it called the deferred maintenanc rulo explain that in a second

representative - has put forward a number of 57 pesos called the wyoming rule. the maidens for with the ide that when we kept the house in 1929, 435, ever since then states have had to lose seat to give them to other states that were growing. as we stayed for another 85. california lost seats of tha another seed could go to a smaller state. as an example. if we took back all those etha given away over the century, that would bring us to tha number of 585. it would catch up really for deferred maintenance where we should've been adding seats as we were growing rathe than the housekeeping states t get it to -- the wyoming rule would take th population of the smallest state, wyoming, and making tha the basis for the ratio betwee a representative and a constituents that would put the ratio a about 580,000 people and would give us 572 members of the house. >> that still more than te

times bigger 15 times per given what th founding fathers were thinking about. so much to talk about here i thank you for the work you'v done on this the work you will continue t do i encourage -- you and i will talk about it some more. thank you. >> thanks so much, take good care >> a professor in the director of the center for ethics o harvard university founder of the allen lab for democracy renovation and the founder president of democracy on today's meeting the velsh banned book club were taking - we're talking libraries in librarians we asked velshi banned boo club members to send u memories from their loca libraries. overall by the number of poignant stories you sent in the library is so many thing to some new people but mos people describe it as a safe place to explore the world carol g writes in part quote i grow very affluent village about 20 miles from minneapoli in an abusive home with alcoho appearance in the 50s and 60s. had an op-ed for the tin library and kind librarian, would've had no place to escape my library card was among th

most precious possessions. i'm sure i checked out many of those now banned books there a i've read most of them librarian libraries are unde attack on the front lines of this book banning culture war. velshi banned book club is coming up.

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megan fitzgerald megan, how this evacuation com together >> ali, what we know is that the u.s. has said days ago tha they were deploying u.s. troop in the military base i djibouti we knew that they were there for the reason of trying t evacuate u.s. citizens diplomats. we did not know a. in this morning, sunday mornin is when that mission was executed the president saying that he was successful that they successfully airlifted some 70 u.s. government officials from th capital city there are still some 16,00 more citizens that are in suda right now. we know that governmen officials have told ou pentagon team that right now it's too dangerous to do that large-scale evacuation they went on to say that u.s military is preparing for al contingencies including larger evacuation mission. no word yet on when or if that will happen. what we're seeing right now is this mass exodus, where othe nations are quickly trying t remove their people from thi

country. the uk confirming that the were able to remove diplomats. we know what the netherlands i doing the same the french said that they're working with their allies to try and executed these evacuee shuns. germany quickly trying to ge their people out because wha we're seeing is this rapidly deteriorating situation. the sudanese armed forces in the pell-mell terry ha multiple opportunities for a cease-fire the latest on friday when they both agreed buttered we know is that that has not been upheld. we've heard gunfire reports of gunfire and explosions happening in the capital i throughout the country people are in a desperat situation. they're running out of food. running out of water in many cases, people are bein told to stay indoors we know as you mentioned, we'r talking some 400 people that have been killed more than 3500 people that hav been injured at. the majority of the hospital in the capital city are in operable because they have bee either without electricity o they have been bombed. you've got these injured peopl

that can't leave their homes because it's too dangerous but even if they could, ther are so few places for them t get help desperate situations tha continue to deteriorate. which is why we are seeing these countries around the world trying to act quickly. to get their people out. ali. >> watching closely with you megan fitzgerald for us in london republicans have - pitching red states's -- regulations and big city crime or gonna talk today about what freedom really means doesn't mean low taxes o doesn't mean the ability t live freely. as an lgbtq person and get health care for tran kisses aside yourself. whether to give birth or cente cut school without fear that will be gone down in their classrooms increasingly it's democratic governors who are pitching their states as the safe haven for freedom loving americans i spoke to one of thos governors on friday night. jay inslee washington. hinge on me now the top of the hour >> now people understandin that this is a huge majority o americans demanding action

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house -- ban any sexually explicit book at first who are very. even restrict material fro students who have parental consent to read them as is often the case with bill of oppression, it has innocuou mnemonic urging title. they call it the reader act. despite the fact that it's largely the opposite while texas representative debated the merits o literature in the chambers educators, activists, libraria said on the marble floor of th capitol rotunda and red titles that will undoubtedly be removed from shelves like lgbtq+ stories of love ar painful once exploring sexua salt when democratic representative

argued that not all books that include sex are bad. quote i could abuse of about sexual assault to define wha had happened me. sometimes our teens had to liv adult lives. that's part of their experiences every single day and quoted the bill passed, 95 to 50 to vote now heads to the state senate. if you drive an hour and a hal west from the texas stat capitol building in austin you'll hit orlando county. the small community abou 22,000 residents it's become a national symbo for ultraconservative book censorship efforts and likel an example of things to come across the country local officials ther threatened to close th country's multi branch library system entirely. rather than to allow books deemed pornographic filth an quote to remain on a shelves now he's one librarian susan baker was fired after sh refused to remove the books. the new report from our friend and pan american a nonprofit dedicated to the freedom to read and write foun that book bans are on the rise across the nation. 1004 and 77 cases abou

criminals from july to decembe in 2022. that's up from 1149 cases in the previous six months. which state had the most the most instances of book bans? 438 of them? in texas these numbers are alarming they don't fully reflect o these book banning efforts mean another of cannot show you how badly a young reader may nee the point and storytelling i david -- two boys kissing or the syri depiction of sexual assault in lori halls anderson speak. both age-appropriate velsh banned book club features. they don't reflect what it means for the thousands of librarians like susan baker in texas and across the u.s. wh won when we become the front line of defense, risking their careers, reputations, sometime their personal safety in thi vitriolic unrelenting cultur war. libraries means so much to generations of readers parents and communities like thi velshi book club member eva -- who emailed to tell me about her experience at her loca library. writing in part i am the ninth of ten children born to my

parents in the 40s and 50s neither are my parents wer able to go to school be on the eighth grade, because bein black, they had to pick cotton in the south my mother was equall passionate about us knowing ho to read. so much so that you walked int the library to get books t read over summer vacation. once read the books, we have t tell you what those books fo about. i still hold the memories of those family discussions close to my heart. after the national the books she take us back to th laboratory the books in, and then grab some more. being poor, at the library was her way of keeping u entertained as well as educated we had so many people right in with equally emotional recollections of their local libraries. today's meeting of the velsh banned book club will pa tribute to those deeply crucia spaces we're focusing on librarians everywhere and specifically in texas, librarians have becom notches keepers of literatur but the founders of th nation's next generation right after the break, i'm joined by surly robinson excited director of librar association. nation's largest state library group. they're hosting their annual

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is surely robinson, executiv director of the texas librar supposition. thanks for being with us, want to be getting you reaction to the bill that we'r talking about that was passe the texas house. targeting so-called sexually explicit books the name of the bill, things that the targets, sounde

popular -- sound like think that it would popular peel but it is censorship >> it absolutely is censorship we have worked tirelessly over the last few months with our lawmakers elected official here in the state to make sure that the aim of this bill is not going to creat restrictions and getting reading materials into the hands of students. there are a couple of elements that would - we are still working on with our lawmakers here in texas. one it would be a rating syste that would be very challenging for book offenders t implementing a very sill across the distribution of books into our schoo libraries. gonna create a lot of chaos an confusion. couple of other elements would really increase the timeline for making sure that libraries are able to provide a -- materials to complement what's happening in the classroom making sure that the lates booking a series is availabl

for our avid readers in ou schools. lots of concerning element that were really trying to wor with our lawmakers on. but are gonna create a lot o complications for education in the state of texas >> how do you answer the question when people say, this is about a filth and pornography and a sexually explicit material? had to make that distinction the stuff that they're calling pornography nfl sometimes is experiential and that reader may need to know about other people's experiences and secondly, we are sort of not a error that would be doing that we do actually have a firs amendment of we do have the ability to writ things that you have the ability the choices to pic them from library or not tak them from the library. it's freedoms that we're removing here. >> that's absolutely right first and foremost, we have to remember that librarians are trained professionals. they haven't masters degrees library science, they operat under industry standards tha are approved by their locall elected boards to make sure that a collection

reflect the unique and diverse the meats of that particular community. it really is all about local decision-making and making sur that students have access to the books that they need and the time that they nee them it's a really important to kno that appear and has th ultimate right to choose and t work with their child to ensur that the values of their famil are reflected in the materials of their student is reading. that they don't have the right to choose and determine what other parents students read. it is suggestive definition of filth and pornography. it is denigrating the -- four librarians, they're being called - no professional should eve anyone should ever be called really needs to stop we need the public to make sur that they are in conversatio with our librarians an supporting them in this very challenging time >> you wrote an op-ed for th

last american statesma entitled book bans are about winningelections, no protecting children. you write the text libra's a sham will be silent while th rights of parents and students are chipped away under the guise of protecting kids refused to go about our jobs professional educators and librarians dedicated to th advancement of knowledge, ar targeted for crimina punishment just for doing thei work let's talk about that and th tenor you just described tha the change in the tenor toward librarians who very much lik other officials includin teachers and election worker don't get in it to be in som sort of a culture war. they are - it's quite simple, the understand the complexity abou knowledge being not one part or not biased. it's just knowledge. >> that's absolutely right we know that libraries are places a voluntary inquiry this is the one of the las free public spaces where individuals can go and they ca

find materials to answer whatever questions are in thei minds. librarians are one of the most trusted professions an unfortunately, at a time where we are seeing record shortages in a workforce and educators leaving the profession we're seeing that abou librarians as well there is a lot of chaos an confusion in the profession. right now, we're seein individuals who are afraid for their jobs they're being attacked o social media simply for doing their jobs. without any sort of agenda they're just following their professional training and thei approved policies. we're seeing individuals approached in places in thei community. it's a really challenging time for the profession and w really need to turn down the temperature or on this conversation and make sure that we're abl to protect these reall important tenants of our democracy. the first amendment. >> our producer found an

interesting image from a local library new jersey i wanna put it up. it's a little hard to read it's titled tough topics it includes topics lik bankruptcy, the loss of a child, rape and suicide at the bottom, small print hard to see it says everything you want to know but don't really want to ask as librarians, we're not her to judge we're here to help this is an important part of books with tough topics. you can go to the library an take the book out. if you confided, you can tak it out and you don't have to have the conversation with anyone if you don't want t have it. this librarian ensures he wa making that point that we're here to serve when it comes to tough topics, not to judge >> it is so true especially our public librarie in our school libraries ar really places of escape an connection to the world. public libraries in particular offer incredible services to their communities. things that you wouldn't normally think of. it's not just a place to g pick up our next great book bu

it's also a place that can hel do your taxes or define access to grief counseling. even to being able to talk t someone about a tough situatio that you might be facing him t find connection to a book or a resource or community servic that she might not have know about. we absolutely have to protec our libraries and ou librarians and know that their reach especially in our s'more -- is so incredibly important it really is the life and th heart of the community both in a school and for a publi library receive things lik tele-health resources bein offered in some of ours mall - those are incredibly vital resources. >> charlie, thanks much fo your time and work that you ar doing in texas diversification a great thanks to libraries an libraries across the country surely is the eighth directo of the texas library

association. thank you. straight ahead, democratic governor washington jean legions we discuss the gop's called personality the future the democratic party. the fight for reproductive rights and much more another hour of velshi begin right now. >> good morning, it is sunda for the 20 third week in this hour with the 2024 presidential primary. beginning to take shape and th shape of the country's shifting the very mating o being freed america's imagin differently by our two parties -- hopefuls picks themselves to the faith and freedom coalitio in iowa. according the evangelical vote for a lot. by donald trump was a headline who appeared virtually -- telling the audience a multitude of lies from possibilities of gende affirming care to falsely -- abortion rights. components to supporting the execution of babies afte birth. to claiming that hwi