governor washington jean legions we discuss the gop's called personality the future the democratic party. the fight for reproductive rights and much more another hour of velshi begin right now. >> good morning, it is sunda for the 20 third week in this hour with the 2024 presidential primary. beginning to take shape and th shape of the country's shifting the very mating o being freed america's imagin differently by our two parties -- hopefuls picks themselves to the faith and freedom coalitio in iowa. according the evangelical vote for a lot. by donald trump was a headline who appeared virtually -- telling the audience a multitude of lies from possibilities of gende affirming care to falsely -- abortion rights. components to supporting the execution of babies afte birth. to claiming that he will nee to obliterate the deep state

and completely overall the fbi and the justice department whe and if he returns to the presidency donald trump announced his candidacy back in november taking up familiar vague lives last campaign. the election was stolen from him and expanding th persecution narrative, claimin that all the investigations of lawsuits in the criminal indictment against him are politically motivated. and by all appearances, th messaging is working for him very well. brand-new nbc news poll this morning shows 68% of republica primary voters believe that th investigations into donald trump are politicall motivated. and are designed to stop him from being president again i think that those voters must support trump now to stop hi opponents from winning meanwhile, nbc news report that president joe biden i expected to formally launch zealot reelection campaign thi coming tuesday, for years to the day after he announced his 2020 presidential bid on a platform of rescuing the country from a president who had allowed some white supremacist were quote, very fine people. but if you want to know what

life is going to be like under another biden term or a second trump administration under democratical republican control, you can see right now in livin color. the contrast between the quality of life in democratically controlle states compared to republica could strolled tate states i striking remember the context here. republicans have long claime there is a steady party of freedom. if you want lower taxes and th governor keeping us note o your business, you are republican come, join us they would say rick perry was known t campaign to lure businesses an residents out of california to bring them to the freedo loving tax haven of texas. the current texas governor gre abbott in 2020, there was kettle is a big companie relocating to texas for th freedom to operate without the heavy head of regulation the former governor sam brow back famously tried experiment in freedom from taxes in kansas setting hi state on a glide path to zer income taxes that is part of a tax cut plan that ran kansas's economy into the ground it's a little fuzzy when you'r

in a palace and get more for it whether any of it worked or not the message is always th same the red, stays republica states will give you freedom from government control. freedom from taxes and somberness are galatians what's that freedom mean do americans feel free in state where they lawfully truc wherein whether to have family do they freeze feel free o states where they're forced to give birth here they feel free in state where books are banning cannot choose what to read? how about where schools ar restricted from teaching students about black history and where teachers are not elect evening nanjin classrooms at lgbtq people exist? what parents of transgende children are under threat of the state forcibly removin their case from their care i they are caught seeking medica attention for them where children were gunned dow at school in the state government moves to protect th fire and companies are being sued that is what is happening in republican led states righ now. it does not sound a whole lo like freedom, not from government control from, fear no from actua danger to the livelihoods of anyone who is gay or trans or

person of color or a person wh could become pregnant. or a kid he was going to school which when you add it all up i a lot of people. but now the tables have turned now democratic governors are recruiting residents and businesses from red states t come live where it is really safe >> here in michigan we hav expanded rights for the lgbt community. we have expanded workers rights we have expanded reproductio rights we have made michigan a more competitive state that is goin to lure talent here and thes other governors an legislatures are trying to rollback those rights an targets people people are looking for a state where you could be who you are and have all the rights you've come to expect maybe then you should move t michigan >> other blue states governors are making the same, pitch fro california to new jersey t illinois in, democrati governors in 20 states launche a network back in february designed to strengthen abortio access and now we are includes no just capably states like california and new york bu swing states run by democrat like north carolina an

wisconsin and pennsylvania freedom is something tha americans are now turning to democratic states to achieve the republican party which one person's presented itself as the party of personal libert and rocketed evangelism is now so deeply obsessed with turnin back the clock and rolling bac personal rights as members are not even pretending to advocat small government anymore what freedom joining me now is democratic governor of washington state drayton valley he is the longest servin governor in the united state and the coauthor of apollo's fire, igniting america's clean energy economy he ran for president on platform of combat in climat change governor, good to see yo again. thanks for being with us thi morning. >> good morning. >> let's talk about some o this stuff just last night we heard the presidential candidates donald trump who was the former president the united state talking about how he's going t have to remake the justice department and this is all politicized. we have two realities here a republican party that is supporting the rolling bac rights of the state level in the federal level.

a president event on retribution and vengeance, and a hold of americans who ar just actually like to be their whole complete selves, whereve they live. this is an interesting dichotomy of people making choices about where to be. >> it. is and i would say that have t come back to this and i' certainly not the first one to say this but we have t understand what is fundamentally intact, unde attack in the united states. it is democracy itself when you hear the losing president lost the election an does not really well in th long run, democracy is still under threat and this individual who is still at large, at least for the moment is running around the country threatenin democracy in a continued refusal to accept election results. and the language he is using you hate to be two apocalyptic but the language he is using i one that other societies hav heard when they slipped away from a democracy into an

autocracy. so i would say this is muc more than sort of a blue versu red debates where we can hav those debates and have for centuries in this country bu the fundamental way of what we hold dear is under attack stil from this losing president that's why i think all of us t make voting decisions with the current fellow there who is no only creating jobs but creatin freedom across the unite states including in my state. >> let's talk recently when talked about on friday night which i'm beginning to think is-pocalypse and it is the rat which people are getting tha done in this country it is already remarkable tha is for most parents thei biggest fear now it is the largest killer o children, gun violence white people get gunned down last week because of the culture of fear in which w live that is actually something tha is very very serious and you have actually done something about this in washington state it goes back to a long time ag in 1994 when you remembe congress and you voted for the assault weapons ban. it cost you your seat back then,

but now you have one i washington state >> you bet we are doing three big thing this year. we are banning the feature sal of assault weapons, these ar weapons of war and how to be free from having a weapon of war in your school we are requiring safet training in a ten-day waitin period before you bring firearm. these measures have been shown to actually reduce gun violence, in other states where it has been done. and we are passing a bill that will hold manufacturer appropriately liable for their misconduct these are three common sense measures we know that it will have an impact and i think one of the thing that when we are talking about this subject today there are some things about freedom that you don't maybe associate with political activity it is a freedom to be able t have your cake go to school an not worry about getting shot that is a freedom issue. you have to be free to breathe arcades could not breathe clea air. it is one day passed earth day and markets could not have the

freedom to breathe because o all the pollution coming out from carbon and now we are suffering climate change i was out the other day and we lost half our size of ou glaciers and these are freedom itself and how we actually liv our lives and those things are under attack as well so yes we are moving forward against gun violence and i'm glad other governors and democrats are joining us that is where the action is in favor of freedom right now blue states. >> the other thing, let' remote with a size lgbtq and trans rights which are put become very popular places t attack abortion the current conversation tha we are in right now abou mifepristone, the most commo form of medication abortion an it was common form of abortion in america right now it is one that you and some othe governors took some steps to say that no matter what happen with this texas ruling and a the supreme court and the fift circuit court of appeal, peopl will be able to ge mifepristone in your state tell me about that >> well, this is the ultimat

freedom. this is the ultimate attempt t intrude on a woman's freedom in the most intimate decisio of their, lives weather to bea children are not there can hardly be a more intrusive and oppressive violation of freedom then th republicans effort to orde women to carry pregnancies t term and that is essentially what this is. so we have acted forcefully an aggressively we have ordered stockpiling of mifepristone before the texa decision and it is proving to be a very successful policy because no matter what the supreme cour does, it does not matter wha their role in regard to th texas decision we will be able to distribut this safe and effective an efficient pharmaceutical t women in our state regardles so i am glad we did that and i hope that the supreme cour will get their fingers burne and back off they may i think republicans are gettin

a little gun shy now we see governor desantis i saying the bill to effectively outlaw abortion in does not le anybody know about it becaus republicans and know that they are wildly out of touch with the basic value system o americans on the subject we acted aggressively and it's not the only thing we have t do we will see states to try to enact, i believe, travel ban as they have in my state o iowa idaho. we are providing free no choic in our state regardless of where you came from. we're gonna have to be ver creative in the years to come. >> governor, good to see you thanks for spending so muc time with us in the last two days democratic governor jay inslee of united states still ahead this hour, u.s military has evacuated embassy personnel in sudan we have an update on the developing situation right after the break. and the story behind alarmin effort is already underway t provide a civil war era law to ban abortion pills and eve rollback americans rights to access birth control plus, yesterday ukraine an

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the latest of the africa nation of sudan. i'm a fierce fighting in violence later today president biden ordered evacuation o nearly hundred u.s. embass personnel. they were elected to the capital city of cartoon. and they are, since the bide administration has suspended operations at the u.s. embassy this all comes after several days of violent clashes betwee tween the sudanese military an the paramilitary group known a rapid support forces which have been battling for control of africa's thir largest country. according to the world healt organization, more than 40 people across the country have been killed throughout the conflict thousands more have been wounded. in a statement release yesterday, president biden sai

quote, this tragic violence in sudan has already cost the lives of hundreds of illicit civilians. it is unconscionable, and it must stop. the party must implement a immediate and unconditiona cease-fire and allow unhindere humanitarian access and respec the will of the people o sudan. nbc news pentagon corresponden courtney kube's got more on th daring operation to extract th americans who are in danger. >> about 100 u.s. military special operations force undertook a daring mission o saturday to rescue u.s government personnel who hav been caught in the middle of a tense fighting in sudan' capital of khartoum. the mission began at 9 a saturday in djibouti u.s. troops flying 100 miles t sudan. but with the airport still closed in the city's roads simply too dangerous to drive, u.s. military had to land thre helicopters at the u.s. embass in khartoum. they were on the ground fo about an hour, managing to loa about 80 people includin several united nations diplomats.

one child, and a number of pets before flying them all to ethiopia to board planes invit fly on to djibouti u.s. embassy in khartoum is no shuttered, although u.s. officials say they hope it i only temporary officials have also said there were no injuries among those who were evacuated and tha many of them have already left djibouti today is the 31 is supposed to be the final day of cease-fire that was supposed t mark the muslim holiday of eid al-fitr. but it has been marked b violence even today there ar widespread reports of gunfir and artillery and even mor airstrikes one american was killed in the crossfire earlier this week bu it is clear that the biden administration does not plan t evacuate the other roughly 16,000 americans who are still in sudan at this time, sayin it is just too dangerous the state department is also warning americans that they ar not to get into private convoy to try to get to any of thes potential evacuation points, saying that they simply cannot guarantee anyone's safety if

they are to do that. back to you. >> that was courtney kube in washington russia continues to threaten the termination of its participation in the port an black sea grain initiative which has enabled ukraine to ship grain out despite a russian blockade after the break and we'll talk to the floor and therapist howard buffett who jus returned from his many trips t ukraine and who's foundation has played hundreds of million of dollars in humanitarian aid for the war torn country i bought the team! kevin...? i bought the team! i put it on my chase freedom unlimited card. and i'm gonna cashback on a few other things too. starting with the sound system... curry from deep. [autotune] that's caaaaaaaaash. i prefer the old intro! this is much better! i don't think so! steph, one more thing... the team owner gets five minutes a game. cash bros? wooooo, i like it! i'll break it to klay.

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citizenry. on friday ukrainian official say that rush again use thos drones to attack kyiv and th first truck on the capitol i 25 days. yesterday, officials fro united states and other nation met with ukrainian officials a the air force base in german discuss military aid and wha is needed to ensure a ukrainia victory. that meeting comes just days after the biden administration announced another round of military aid this one totaling 300 and $2 million. the u.s. has so far pledge more than 35 billion dollars since russia's full-fledge invasion of ukraine last february in addition to the military aid, ukraine needs humanitarian aid and lots of. it that is where people like m next guest come in joining me now is howard buffet, the son of warren buffett bu much more than that. he is an award-winning executive producer of rwanda and the river in the wall, and new york times bestselling author of multiple important books including 40 chances finding hope in the gray world and our border quick prices, a the mexican border feels the

drug academic across america also the chairman and ceo of the howard g buffett foundatio which sent its founding in 199 as focused on two main areas food security and conflict mitigation which are issues that have risen to the forefront o ukraine, because of that bruta invasion last year howard donated nearl 100 and $50 million to humanitarian aid efforts i ukraine. this, year the foundation plan to double that dedicating nearly $300 million since russia was full-fledge invasion last february, howard has visited ukraine seven time including two times to the front lines. as you can, see he is also a accomplished photographer. he has documented his visits and the one thing i did not sa about he was that you are farmer >> yes, sir. >> when it comes to food and grain and things the ukraine depend on you understand tha pretty intimately. so let's start with this las visit. we're gonna show some images from it. you are there also with richar branson and you play slowl money into this. some of what you saw that they need >> well, ukraine first of al

of this is a war on civilians. it really is it is a war on civilians and o agriculture and on global food security and on democracy an freedom and sovereignty. so when you take all tha together, they need a lot of help they need help on the fron lines of newly-liberated areas in terms of food assistance. they need help with civilian who are going to nee prosthetics, and they need hel with supporting the war crimes and crimes against humanity in terms of documentation and investigation. and then probably the larges thing that they're going t need help in, unfortunately it will take a long time, i de-mining. they said they almost 30% of ukraine is subject to land mines and of course there is all kinds of different lan mines the russians left behind but when they retreat from a area they mine it. and mainz are indiscriminate i terms of who they affect

so you're gonna have a hug impact on the civilian population >> you need a lot of things ar really interesting because o not things covered b government military assistance we give military aides, but in world war i or world war i trench warfare and these peopl are losing limbs >> i met with a young man i ca tell you two quick stories i met with a young man arthu about ten days ago who was 1 years old. he's just like any other teenager, he is in the wrong place at the wrong time an missile hits and the shrapne takes his left arm off and his whole life i different. and then i met with dennis, wh was fighting in bakhmut an lost both his legs in his left arm. the guy's attitude is amazing. he is 19 years, old wants to g back and fight in the fron lines. the impact of this on thousand of tens of thousands of people in terms of -- and it's trauma it is a future productivity, but i think that the thing that people have t understand is that russia does

not play by any rules. there is no international la that they care about it is all this inhumanity they are starting to see. the actions against people are really hard to understand. >> and as you said, it is a wa on civilians one of the things it is really interesting that you understan very well because you are a, farmer you have a farm i southern illinois, is that the ukrainians are farmers they are first and foremost. farmers they are producers o various agricultural crops and grains it's not even able to get a lo of it because of the agreement between them and russia in the world allows them to ship this grain out through the blac sea. that agreement may end on ma 18th, rushers continue to sa that it's not just bad for th ukrainians that's bad for the world >> think about this way. pre war, russia and ukrain exported 12% of all the -- consumed in the world. that is a huge amount. they are also huge exporters i

corn and wheat and a number of things so if the black sea initiative is not continued, it's going t have a huge impact globally. i mean, one and three families right now are food insecure in ukraine. but it goes well beyond that david beasley who just left th world food programme last year said that the eastern africa just to give you an idea, th food basket for a family wen up 55% you cannot increase that amoun in your food budgets across th world, especially in place like africa, i think it's no going to lead to additiona instability and conflict >> and we are seeing that, today right now in sudan we are seeing continue instability. in both cases there are hungry people who cannot get the food that they are looking for. most of our viewers do not hav the resources that you and richard branson have you have been deployed, yo have been instructed to deploy

your very big resources to certain things around th world. what do my viewers who car about what happens in ukraine, what can they do >> there are some great 513 c. which means they are registere here with the irs. there are some great organizations that are ukrainian as well. super humans, which does prosthetics. they are 513 seat now. they are helping civilians and veterans they're helping people get their lives back you can support prosthetics an you can support food aid o both the front lines and acros ukraine. but there is a number of organizations who ar supporting giving food out t people i think the food assistance is probably number one. and then if you have a littl bit more money, there is a continuing needs to support th investigation and documentatio of crimes against humanity so there are some really key things that people can do. >> there are groups that d that including alexander ridley's brother was part of

that group that is looking int getting that documentation together let's talk a little abou you've gone seven times, you'r going back to more times >> three times >> three times this year what is your sense of optimism about? it is the spirit you saw in th ukrainian people when you're there you get th impression they're going to wi this war >> i look at two different ways one is that i was in ukraine i 1991, part of the union in february of 91 the streets were bare and yo cannot buy much. people were not very friendl or happy i, saw and i would use las august is a great example. summertime driving on th sunday in the park in kyiv you've got people quit playing the guitar kids playing there is more hope in th middle of a war in kyiv toda than there was when he was par of the soviet union. so they are determined, an ukrainians not going to go backwards. not gonna give up freedoms they're gonna fight until th last person standing however, we have given enoug

for the ukrainians to fight bu we've not given them enough to win. that is not a strategy we're gonna have to step thi up along with europe and figur out what it is going to take it is not hard to figure wha it takes but were enough to do and give ukraine what it takes to be successful >> good to see you, thank yo for coming this way. when it was an early start for you to get here, but thank you we always appreciate it >> anything for, you. ali >> howard buffett is the chairman and ceo of the howard jean buffett foundation. still ahead on velshi, the supreme court turned back th clock nearly 50 years when i overturned roe v. wade but it could get worse we pull the curtain back on th efforts to revive a law from 1870, which could be used to rollback access to abortio pills and birth control.

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next week's velshi banned book club we are speaking with laure groff on her book fights and furious. spending two decades, fates an theories aren't from three perspectives our two protagonists are a married couple and - announced change chorus. it examines what individua agents the means within relationship, it has bee banned widely for being, quote pornographic including gross own state of florida, she tweeted a respons writing, my book fates and her is his number 49 in the banned books list probably because it contains

constant consensual adult se and abortion if any public school student want to sneak my book into their school library shelves, would be glad to mail you copy and quote. reading as resistance, as we have discussed be sure to tweet us with comments and questions o fights and furious to my story velshi dot com that's the militias obviously. you can see book suggestions we love hearing from a velsh banned book club members we go to hear from a lot of you on today's topic. like lowering off in her boo plates and furious, one of the fridge talk about portion on this show. up, next along which has not been enforced in 150 years i coming back to haunt us. shake 'n feed. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. how to grow delicious herbs: step one: use miracle-gro potting mix. that's it.

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pnc bank. >> anthony comstock is a nam you may not have heard o before for good reason. it comes to which once a

prominent influential public official who has now bee really getting to the ash up o history because he imposed a oppressive ideology didn't question americans persona liberties. he was a fierce and zealou anti vice crusader, a religiou fanatic who is obsessed with reading society the things h considered to be smart and tomorrow for a time in american history it is able to use his position and influence to get a serie of anti obscenity laws passe in congress. and dozens of stat legislatures that came to be known as comstock laws at the federal level, th comstock act of 1873 made it illegal to send anything through the u.s. postal servic that, was quote, obscene lew lascivious, a filthy, book pamphlet pitcher paper lette writing print or any other indecent character and clothes. what was considered obscene or lewd or lascivious was not wel defined. classic works of literatur like what whitman's enduring collection of poetry, leaves o grass, became targets of comstock's anti obscenit movements and got barred fro being sent through the mail fo

a period of time but comstock also became intrinsically linked to th modern reproductive rights movements. because under the laws h champions, we became illegal t distribute or be in possession of articles or materials relat to abortion and birth control. beginning 1910s a figure merge was determined to challenge th restrictions of th dissemination of information and materials related to reproductive health. margaret saying, it by the activists you want to educat the public about famil planning, openly defie comstock's invasive laws she was gutted the 1913 fo sending contraceptives through the mail and a couple of years, later she wanted to arrest you for opening the first birth contro clinic in america. arrested for opening a birth control clinic she of course went on to found the organization tha eventually became planne parenthood and her open defiance of these laws actually became emblemati of the eventual downfall of th comstock apt the comstock apt by others i part of the federal code t this day 150 years after was firs passed by congress

but has not been enforced fo decades. because of a series of legal challenges that are of essentially nude its power despite, that tom stocks stric antibodies statute as we'r gained relevance among som factions of the antiabortion crowd. in the post roe era. which has raised concerns abou how this long dormant law coul be revived and misused in th ongoing fight over reproductiv rights one of the most important case which stripped the act of it relevance was a griswold b connecticut. a landmark supreme court cas it was a milestone for the movement to legalize birth control. in 1961, the state o connecticut applied its versio of the comstock act to prosecute a estelle griswold it was then the executiv director of the states planned parenthood lead. and one of the groups of physicians for prescribing birth control to married women four years later, the suprem court ruled in favor o griswold finding the right to privacy extended to married couples an their right to use contraception. that ruling, however, only

apply to married couples the right of everyone else use birth control, regardless of their idol status, will be decided in a separate case later. all in griswold was an important milestone, both in the fight towards reproductive freedom and in challenging the constitutionality of comstoc laws but last summer, when th supreme court overturned roe v wade and handed down his decision on dobbs, a concurrin opinion by justice clarenc thomas included an alarmin suggestion that the court coul rollback reproductive rights even farther in his, opinion thomas wrote quote, a future cases we shoul reconsider all of this court substantive due proces presidents, including griswold and quote. every consideration of griswol in some sense would be a reconsideration of comstoc laws because comstock laws were a the heart of that case thomas's suggestion wa alarming at the time, even though it seems like a lon shot this consideration we also b underway earlier this, month matthe

kacsmaryk cited the comstock act multiple times it certainly would've banned the distribution of th abortion pill mifepristone if his roiling had not bee appealed for the time being. gus merrick is a controversial trump appointed judge who ha long been known for hi antiabortion views in hi conservative bands but his opinion in a particula case may have cracked the door open for antiabortion forces t weaponize this outdated 15 year old law to further choke off access to abortion care nationwide and that's where the fight could be headed next when you, return we're gonna continue this discussion wit two of the brightest legal minds i know on this ticop michelle goodwin and larry ziegler. ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas...

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goodwin, a professor the university of irvine law and author of the book policin leawood, invisible women and the criminalization of motherhood also - so glad professor you see davi law school the author of several book including her, latest row th history of a nationa obsession. good morning to both of you an thank you for being with that's a, mary you have a ne article in the atlantic this weekend titled the justice t pass on an abortion bill ban pale ban it has the subheading, until they hear about her case and in the piece you write tha the fda prevails and if it prevails in this current mifepristone lawsuit, quote, other anti abortion rights cases will soon be filed wit the hope of reaching the

supreme court. kaz merrick in the fifth circuit prepared the way for reading of the calm stock ac as a nationwide abortion ban and abortion rights upon u will file other suits to tak advantage. and quote. tell me a bit more about, this because i think there are a lo of people who are not as wel read is the two of you on this who are wondering how this i possible >> yeah, the argumen essentially is that we shoul ignore all of the relevant precedent on the comstock ac for recent decades and jus look at it's quote unquote plain language and anti-abortion groups suggest that this language means it is a crime to nail an drug or device or lay it to or adapted for abortion which they think means all abortion there are no abortions in an clinic or anywhere in americ performs today with things mad at home or in a clinic they all involve things sent b medical device distributors an drug companies antiabortion groups like georg kacsmaryk or reading this as a de facto, nationwide ban it is significant for them because they can never get a nationwide ban through congress they can never get voters to

endorse a nationwide ban and they're hoping that they don't need to their opening a conservativ federal judges to do it fo them, and get a conservative president and the doj to enforce that interpretation on the comstock act after 2024. >> so, michele there may b three or four possible lanes here one is the one that joe bide talked about the other day which is a people elected to congress that codify abortio protections. which is the other, side lindsey graham and tim scott o carolina and mike pence al talking about the fact tha there should be in the state hands, a positive ban on abortion and there is another one where the courts if they go shopping it will be finally you get a better cas and as mary says - this reproduction creates bigger bang on the watching give me your sense of the landscape. >> that is absolutely right. those areas you laid out and the latter one is when we will see more of because it is consistent with what we hav pre-dobbs. many people see dobbs as jus

one strike what they fail to realize is that between 2010 and 2013 with the rise of the tea party there was more antiabortion an more anti contraceptive laws that were proposed and actives than the 30 years prio combined so the efforts to foru shopping to try many different kinds of efforts to completely eliminates reproductiv freedoms of many types are wha are at stake well much attention is rightfully so spent on abortion, it is worth noting, velshi across the country there are efforts to dismantle even se education in school. something that was not controversial 30 or 40 years ago. >> it is old coincides with. we just did a real she banne book club, and i think it is all sort of of a sort. mary, what is worse? the idea that this one strik thing that people talk about this is not the end of abortion this is simply handing it back to the states. donald trump likes to use that

line and then there are others who, are saying no we actually want to codify. this one in the end is worse a national codifie congressional panel abortion or the draconian stuff tha we're seeing play out in state after state? >> i think they definitely a nationwide ban is worse becaus we've seen that even in very conservative states, and there is an opportunity for voters t weigh in directly, they weig in in favor of abortion rights losing that even in states tha are chasing to elect republicans to state legislatures and courts. so a nationwide standard is on that precludes that's kind o effort in the states and i think it is kind o fundamentally anti democratic. to have a lot of voters woul reject and that embodies norms of gender and sex and sexualit that were passed at a time whe women could not vote and so i think it would be muc better to at least giv supporters of reproductive rights the opportunity to wi over voters, which seems a least based on the evidence we have seen thus far, pretty

doable >> michelle, let's go back t the conversation about clarenc thomas and his concurrin opinion last year, in which yo brought up griswold. and the idea that we shoul look at some of these othe things he said a bunch of things that were alarming in this decision this one, i'm not a lawyer and i am not an expert on this, is it right to be a little bi alarmed that when he talke about, that that is cracking the door open to the calm stoc act and things like that to get new life? >> well, notably and justice thomas's concurrence, he opene the door to many dismantling's of constitutional freedoms including contraception. but notice that he was jus widening the door, because the supreme court is 2014 decision in burwell v. hobby lobby ha already cracked open that door with conflating contraceptio with abortifacients. giving corporations th entitlements to have religious views, and to be able to weaponize those against thei employees. who saw contraceptive access

so, he was adding to that. and it's also worth noting tha the one area that justic thomas left out of the various substantive due proces protections was that involving interracial marriage that which affects his lif personally so this is something worth paying alarm throughout. even more, so this is about dismantling of democracy you have been saying that. and it is true that is what is happening in these, times where the democratic process means a ver little despite the fact that the supreme court said tha this would be issues left to that process before i let you go, or you le us go, let's remember that the united states is the deadliest place in all of th industrialized world to be pregnant ranking 55th it is a deadly proposition t put people in this position. >> more dangerous, you hav told, me then rwanda or kenya. for a woman to be pregnant these are remarkable thanks, mary to your point

about about her case, th supreme court gets a bette case than they may act on it which is about a case look like? is it from a judge who was not cash, merrick which is not having documented history of abortion to reproductive rights? or is it just a better case on the actual merits of the case? >> i think a good starting point would be a case where th plaintiffs actually have standing and where they started likel didn't run there's a lot of procedura problems with this case. so i think conservativ justices who are excited about the thought of rolling bac access to abortion even wore michael look to this case an thought it was just too flawed i don't know in the cases i've seen working their way up th federal court, or at least the state courts involving the comstock act, have their own problems but one thing that is clear if you study the history of the abortion debate is that th antiabortion keep throwing things against the wall to see what sticks, and comstock is clearly become a very powerful tool both because it could mean a nationwide abortion ban, and

because it could mean more tha that as you pointed out so i think we are now going to see the end of, this even if i cannot pinpoint a case with history of procedural problems i think really what is stoppin the court here is the fact tha the play was probably did no have a right to be in court in the fort first place, given th issues of standing i timeliness >> michelle, let's not get som of the slippery slope things there's a lot of people an raphael that, said at least wa mifepristone in medication abortion which even at the time was the most commonly used abortion in the united states. and once that gets challenged, people say at least there is birth control. in fact, they are all of the sort i don't know why people wh didn't like abortion hav decided that they also don't like birth control but people are living thei religious beliefs or their personal beliefs inform ho women should be policed. >> it is really hard t describe this as anything othe than something that seem called like. something that is out of the 1

hundreds and the salem witch trials which also took place across the country where women of medicine were being targeted and literally burned at th stake. and that is the kind of frenzy that we are seeing notice this case that wa before george bush merrick these were petitioners that fo the last two decades could not get a judge to give a hearin to this. that is, no bush judge which one are bush to. no reagan era judgment eve taken up the challenge such as this there was never a time befor where the fda was pressed with to withdraw a drug from th markets which had undergon such thorough review and now we're in a time in which you are right, it is not just abortion. it is not just contraception it is not just sex ed. it is a time in which we shoul all be alarmed, because this i a flash. point this is a proxy for so much else in our democracy let's remember the very same states that are rolling back

reproductive freedoms are th states that map on to a slav map. i'm up on to a jim crow map. and these are the same day that are looking to dismantl voting rights, and also to infuse a religiously of city that is christian based in the classroom. we see that coming out of texa just this last week. and if we don't throw thes things together, it will be ou mistake. >> that is when you make tha clear line between what is going on with reproductive rights of what is going on wit democracy and freedom. i'm so grateful to both, i you. again thank you for being with as michelle goodwin is a professor at uc irvine law school and the author of the book policing the womb invisible women in the criminalization of motherhood. mary ziegler is a historia professor at ucla school, an author of multiple books including, row the history of national obsession that does it for me, thank you for. watching that rebecca accident on the warning from 10 am to noon eastern, it's day where you are. inside with jen psaki begins right now.