voters who believe very differently than them. >> it is fascinating stuff certainly recommend people checking out on "axios." senior political reporter for "a "axios," eugene scott, thank you for joining us today. thanks for getting up "way too early" with us on this tuesday morning. it's a jam-packed day. "morning joe" starts right now hi, i'm jimmy fallon, one of the few tv personalities who still is employed. tucker carlson, don lemon, what the hell is going on out there? everyone is talking about this fox news announce d they're parting ways with tucker carlson. [ applause ] some people aren't sure what led to his exit, but fox said they can think of almost a billion reasons why. >> good morning. welcome to "morning joe. it is tuesday, april 25th. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too

early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire former white house director of communicationspalmieri she's co-host of showtime's "the circus." pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post", eugene washington attorney and contributing columnist for "the washington post," george conway joins us this morning. >> great to have you all here. willie, why don't you hold up "morning joe's" official newspaper of record. what's on the front? >> it's happening. joe, it's happening. aaron rodgers coming to the new york jets. leaving the packers. it'll be an exciting new era for the team that's not been to the playoffs in a dozen years. >> it's going to also be very, very exciting for headline writers at t"the new york post," as conspiracy theories spill out at press conferences my god, this is like a dream come true for the headline writer at "the post.

>> jets fans are excited they've needed a quarterback for a long time. they had zach wilson a coupl years, an early pick that didn't quite work out the way they hoped. they got their man he was an mvp just two seasons ago. he can still sling it. y yes, he does come with a lot of extra story lines, as well >> jonathan lemire, the jets had a pretty good team last year, top to bottom. quarterback problems, obviously, but they started off strong. aaron rodgers could be a puzzle that fits right into their plans. might be, i don't know, might be the vaccine that they need to get rid of loser-itis. >> well done, joe. you did your research before that comment yeah, the jets have a strong defense, have good skill players. this is the move you make when you're one player away rodgers showed signs of slippage last year. he is certainly an upgrade to what they've had, frankly, ever, at the helm of the jets.

if he goes into a darkness retreat in the middle of the season, may cost a couple games. >> hopefully he is well, willie, and doesn't blame conspiracy theories surrounding jeffrey epstein on, say, a defensive scheme that doesn't work during, you know, a game against the patriots or something else you know, again, there's a lot of material for "the new york post" headline writers. >> he has, apparently, thoughts and theories about 9/11, also, which might be interesting to the new york media. >> awesome. >> fantastic. >> we will see mika, i understand we have some news that might be little bit more important than aaron r rodgers to the jets. >> we do. president biden officially running for re-election. this just happened he announced his 2024 plans in a new video out right now. exactly four years to the day after he jumped into the 2020 race take a look.

♪ >> freedom personal freedom is fundamental to who we are as americans there's nothing more important, nothing more sacred. that's been the work of my first term, to fight for our democracy. this shouldn't be a red or blue issue. to protect our rights, to make sure everyone in this country is treated equally, and everyone is given a fair shot at making it but, you know, around the country, maga extremists are lining up to take on those bedrock freedoms cutting social security that you paid for your entire life, while cutting taxes for the very wealthy. dictating what health care decisions women can make banning books and telling people who they can love. all the while, making it more difficult for you to be able to vote

when i ran for president four years ago, i said we're in a battle for the soul of america we still are the question we're facing is whether in the years ahead we have more freedom or less freedom, more rights or fewer. i know what i want the answer to be, and i think you do, too. this is not a time to be complacent that's why i'm running for re-election. because i know america i know we're good and decent people i know we're still a country that believes in honesty, respect and treating each other with dignity that we're a nation where we give hate no safe harbor we believe that everyone is equal, that everyone should be given a fair shot to succeed in this country >> thank you for choosing us >> every generation of americans have faced a moment when they have to defend democracy stand up for our personal

freedom. stand up for the right to vote and our civil rights and this is our moment ♪ >> we the people >> love you. >> so if you're with me, go to joebiden.com and sign up let's finish this job. i know we can. because this is the united states of america. there's nothing, simply nothing we cannot do if we do it together >> all right that video released by the

biden-harris campaign moments ago. jen palmieri, i heard key phrases we've heard before from president biden, let's finish the job. what we can expect in the next few weeks? will democrats get behind president biden? >> um, yeah. if anything thought they could beat him, they would be running. you know, the fact that there's -- i think they're going into this race with a great record of accomplishment, a lot more that can be done. you know, biden even laid out an agenda in that video l low approval ratings, it is a difficult time to be president it's a divided country if somebody thought they could win the nomination, if somebody thought they could do better than him in the general election, they would be running. nobody thinks that because they think that biden is the person that we have coalesced around four years ago, and still the best person to unite the country. if it's trump, that's the best

move, and if it's not, biden proved in the midterms he can also defeat trumpism, even if it's a different kind of maga republican that's at the head of the ticket. >> gene, for all the polling we've seen, where even democrats say, "we don't want joe biden to run for re-election," if you ask the second question, which is, "will you vote for him if he does," of course they will. >> of course. >> it is keeping others out of the race >> exactly. >> the video goes at extremism which we've seen from republicans, abortion, guns, things like that. >> you saw cameos by marjorie taylor greene and ron desantis, interestingly. i don't know if we saw donald trump or not we certainly saw desantis. yeah, that was -- that's the argument a big part of joe biden's argument in 2020 was, reason i'm sanity and this other party is crazy, so please vote for me that's going to be the argument

again. >> and the argument, john, which is similar in 2020, which is, we need to stop donald trump from sitting in the white house joe biden did that job in 2020 it's his job again in 2024 the age question is out there. it's not us saying it, it's polling that says it, even among democrats who support joe biden. he'll be pushing his 82nd birthday on election day he'd be 86 the end of his second term we should point out, donald trump would be the second oldest president. he is about to be 77 years old. >> just a few years younger there. this was -- the president has, since taking office, said it was his expectation to run again he always would caveat it, that he is a believer in fate he acknowledged that things could change, but this was always his plan. it's going to be a very slow election ramp-up here. this is about raising money. this is about starting the fundraising process for the money that's going to be needed for what will be an extraordinarily expensive general election campaign. today, though, he is giving a speech about his manufacturing plant. he is going to be addressing a

union in d.c., which is appropriate enough the vice president today addressing about abortion rights that is the pillars here it's the economic comeback, and it's the women's right to choose and personal freedoms. those are what this administration has been about, and that's what this campaign is going to be about. yes, a potential rematch with donald trump looms that's a race this white house likes. they think that they would beat him again. we're obviously a long way from november 2024, but that journey starts today. >> joe, we also noted, the four of us at the table, a lot of vice president harris in that video to go along with the message about extremism on the other side >> yeah, i mean, there's been a lot of talk about the vice president and are they going to replace the vice president you always get this, by the way. you always get this. the vice president is always turned into a secondary figure, for good reason, but also a lot of people leading up to re-election campaigns say, are

they going to dump no, she's there. >> she's their voice on abortion. >> she has been their voice on abortion she had a successful trip to africa gene robinson, there's absolutely no reason why they should upset the apple cart, as is said. >> yeah. >> joe biden not only beat donald trump, joe biden did something that no democratic -- well, actually, no president has done since 1934 with fdr. >> right. >> he actually picked up seats, governor seats, in his first midterm re-election. also did, obviously, extraordinarily well leading the party during the midterms in the united states senate, as well, and wildly outperformed kevin mccarthy's own expectations in the house. these numbers, these soft numbers, this matters as much as the soft numbers in the summer and the fall of 2022. >> yeah. >> people whining, democrats

especially, whining and whimpering and bedwetting about how weak joe biden, go back to what you were saying in the summer and fall of 2022, how there was going to be a red wave it never materialized because biden is normal. there's craziness everywhere when people pick up the phones, they go, "oh, my god, i'm so excited about hope and change. it's morning in america. z zippity-doo-da." is that what they do no they go, "he's all right." then they go to the polls and say, "there's normal." there's not the fascism, not the radicalism, not the violent overthrows of governments attempted. this is a guy that does his job, works with republicans, gets things done. it may not show up in polls a year late every, but that's something that probably will put the democrats back in the white house for another four years. >> i think it probably will.

i mean, you know, all the hammering -- god gave democrats hands in order to wring them, right? that's what democrats do >> so true. >> frankly, i think the sort of, you know, will they dump the vice president it's been particularly, and i think unfairly, intense about this vice president, about vice president harris she connects with parts of the democratic base in a really important and valuable and significant way that i think people don't acknowledge enough. so this is the team. this isthe team that won in 2020 this is the team that's going to run again in 2024. and make the same argument, i think, that they made, except they have the accomplishments also to tout then the abortion issue, so salient now, that'll be a big

part of this campaign. >> to that, jen, there was never any suggestion president biden would dump the vice president. how prominently she features in the video is what aides have been saying. there is an understanding the vice president will play a more central role to the campaign this time around it is due to the president's age. he'll be 82 years old for a second term in office. she is, indeed, one heartbeat away the republican attacks already started, and they'll make the argument the biden team wants to say, we're comfortable with this choice, excited about the choice, and she is part of us. >> i mean, that was a very -- we saw her a lot in the video that was a deliberate thing. i know from doing these kinds of things, these kinds of videos before, you think really carefully about how you're going to present the whole team, those two as a pair. it does show, i think, that, you know, i've written a lot about this, about how she's -- about

how harris, in particular, first woman, first woman of color, is sort of covered in this job and treated in this job. but when you see what she's actually doing, the trip down to nashville, all of the work on abortion, a lot of the work on voting rights. >> all the foreign policy, too >> the trip to africa. >> incredible in foreign policy. >> these are key, key issues for the biden-harris team. they want to show you, this is part -- this is our leadership team she's very much part of it it's smart to back her that way. >> yeah. we're going to move to the surprising announcement from fox news yesterday, that it has parted ways with right-wing host tucker carlson both "the new york times" and "the washington post" cite a source who say the decision to let carlson go was made on friday by lmurdoch, the head of the corporation, and susan scott, the chief executive of

fox news media. >> by the bway, i don't buy tha. i mean, anybody -- i have to stop right there anybody that has dealt with fox news over the past several years, they don't believe that either this was a decision made by rupert murdoch doesn't want to go on the stand again. let's bring in george conway here he doesn't want to go on the stand again. he doesn't want to face any of this. >> there's more lawsuits. >> yeah, more lawsuits >> similar. >> again, i'm really surprised i mean, i understand reporters are fed what reporters are fed, but the first story was correct. it was steve batallio from the "l.a. times" saying this decision came from rupert murdoch. every time i talked to somebody over the years saying, "who is calling the shots? why aren't there guardrails around tucker carlson," i heard the same thing "he and locklan are tight, but it goes to rupert. rupert would make the decision, and he is disengaged."

the truth, it seems, slipped out at first, and that is that this was a decision made by rupert murdoch. come on, who is going to fire the most popular host, one of the most popular hosts in fox history? it ain't going to be anybody under rupert murdoch, is it? >> impossible. it was their highest rated show. it was their show that made the most money you know, it goes up to rupert if anything goes up to rupert murdoch, it'd be that. he'd be he misremiss as the chan of the board not to have input in the decision. it's absolutely right. thestory that it was something made at a lower level is just popp poppycock. the fact of the matter is, susan scott has just, you know, almost as much culpability for what has happened to fox news and the $787.5 million payout as some of these anchors. she was the one, she was the deck officer

she should go, too >> i'm wondering, george, if you see any alignment here with the future lawsuits that are coming down the pike, that are similar to the dominion lawsuit, which, of course, ended in a $787 million settlement are they getting their ducks in a row, dealing with the same problem, saying the problem is gone, or do you not see a par little or connection here? >> that's an interesting point i mean, i think you can go two way on this. one, you could decide to fire him before all these other lawsuits get resolved because you want to be able to show that you're trying to clean house on the other hand, it's kind of an admission of liability, in a way. i mean, it's an admission that your people, at least some of them, engaged in misbehavior

i think the reason the former choice was made, to get rid of him now, $787.5 million settlement payment is a floor for the smartmatic case. the truth has already come out, and so that's why, i think, they decided, let's just do this now and get it over with >> there is the question of the inner workings of fox news and what prompted this, and then it's the role of tucker in our american culture i think you understand that better than anybody, sitting around the table here, which is, you have people from all over. you had podcasters and talk show hosts, the former president of the united states and other prominent figures in the republican party, members of congress, lamenting this decision, saying that tucker, in some ways, was as big a figure recently as someone like rush limbaugh what's your reaction to this

>>. >> i thought, yesterday, it was one of the more surprising announcements. bill o'reilly sometimes got higher ratings than tucker carlson, but tucker carlson held a unique position in the debate over the future of america we've had a debate in america. there have been people on the trump right that have turned their back on western democracy, that have turned their backs on basic american freedoms that ha declared war against some institutions that conservatives used to actually be the most strident defenders of. the men and women in uniform, tucker carlson said they were woke and the military was going to bring helicopters that they used against the taliban in afghanistan, they were going to come use them against americans. it was a sickening, sickening

attack of the proud men and women who serve in uniform every day and protect our country. same thing said about law enforcement personnel. the same things said about our college campuses which, again, i've been critical of for years. but this idea that they're completely bankrupt and nobody is learning anything there is absolutely preposterous. our universities are the greatest on the planet people all over the world send their children here. again, attacks on the intel community. there's a straight line, george conway, if you look. there's a straight line in the support for autocrats, people are autocratic urges who actually despise western democracy. despise freedom. despise the rule of law. despise a free press they're always attacking it.

it's donald trump in united states viktor orban in hungary. vladimir putin in russia those three. i guess that's sort of the line that goes straight across, the through line tucker carlson, in the opinion of me and a lot of people who actually been long defenders of western democracy, was on the wrong side of every one of those -- the debate surrounding those leaders. seemed to embrace the autocrats and constantly mock the institutions that uphold western democracy. >> that's absolutely right remember, tucker is the guy who went to budapest to hang out with orban he's been supportive of putin's position in the ukraine war, which is the united states has no business defending democracy

there. it's really a business of russia's, and ukraine is really part of russia, or at least crimea is. that is absolutely -- and that's the appeal of -- that's his appeal to the maga base. they don't want to think for themselves democracy is complicated democracy is messy democracy is diversity we don't like that, these people who watch fox news tucker appeals to that not just the authoritarian streak, but lso, you know, the great replacement theory he wants to gin up the right, you know, with racism. >> we should also note that tucker carlson has the january 6th security tapes from kevin mccarthy curious what happens to those now. >> i want to know about that. >> gene, i want to bring you in on this. this didncan't be overstated, t joe's point, the loudest voice in conservative media. the timing of this as the gop primary starts to shake outm

i heard in the minutes after this announcement, several people close to former president donald trump who was outraged, already calling for trump supporters to not watch fox news donald trump jr. went on publicly to condemn the decision in the early stages of this race with trump in the lead, desantis trying to find his footing, other candidates jumping in, how will this departure impact that? >> it depends how fox plays it from here on out i mean, how do they -- they're not going to have a permanent host to replace tucker immediately. but how does the tenor of fox news deal with this republican contest? you know, trump or desantis? trump or not trump, basically? where is their emphasis, and where is their tilt? we'll find out i don't know what they've decided, frankly i don't know which way they'll go i do know, it is extraordinary we're talking about a cable tv

host, and a lot of people watch fox, but not all that many compared to the u.s. population. it's the lead story in "the new york times." it's the lead story in "the washington post. you know, it's an incredible moment it's not the lead story in t"the new york post", however, led by rupert murdoch, which led with aaron rodgers. >> front and back. >> it has tucker as a little sort of thing inside, you know, tucker is going. we wish him well. >> jen, it is interesting. we were talking about donald trump was on newsmax last night and was asked about this it was a tempered for him anywayan anyway he said, yeah, i was surprised by the news. tucker was terrific to me. it wasn't a broadside against fox news, which i suspect he knows he'll need during the campaign here. everyone said, you know, when bill o'reilly left fox news, the place would crumble. here comes tucker, arguably the

most influential host in their history. >> i do find it perplexing remember, last week, we heard that jannine and maria could get fired, telling lies and believe them tucker is fired. nothing about sean hannity or laura ingraham didn't trump do an interview with tucker? he was being let back in after being shadow banned from fox for months. >> yeah. >> he did an interview with tucker it was the first time since september he'd done one. then he gets fired, right? you know, fox seems to still be trying -- i don't know it's very possible they don't know what they are doing i mean, i know in politics a lot of times, people think things are more complicated and orchestrated than they really are. but they don't seem to have

figured out where, you know, they are in relation to trump. and, you know, tucker carlson has a big following. it's 2023. he could go somewhere. he could have his own platform he could go to another outlet and, you know, possibly take viewers with him. >> maybe the others aren't as critical of fox management in their texts and in their -- >> could be part of it >> it will be interesting to see how this plays out i think there are legal questions about whether or not there's more fallout from this within fox news. and i think the question about the january 6th tapes is a really big one what exactly what happens to those? do they stay in his possession still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> again, it just shows how ridiculous. >> i know. >> outrageously irresponsible it was of kevin mccarthy. >> oh, don't even start me we're trying to go to break. >> to send security tapes to a conspiracy theorist.

>> yeah. >> again, just mind-bending, that he sends this information to somebody who is supporting an insurrection against the united states of america. and provides security tapes. that's what any insurrectionist, future insurrectionist would be want to see. >> it's frightening. >> really frightening. >> still ahead -- >> kevin mccarthy needs to get the tapes back. >> he does. >> and he needs to get lawyers to have documents signed that they're not going to be used anywhere else in the future or any of its contents revealed. >> i wonder why only kevin mccarthy has say over those security tapes i mean, i understand -- >> runs the house. >> -- he's the speaker, but there's got to be some way for others to put some control over it. >>shocking it puts the capitol hill police in danger. it puts members of congress in danger. >> i agree. >> it puts everybody in danger that works at the united states

capitol, but he did it like you said, where are the tapes now? >> where did they go ahead on "morning joe," fulton county district attorney has been investigating trump for alleged interference in the 2020 election she's out with a new timeline for when we could see a possible indictment plus, democratic congressman jim clyburn, whose support was critical to biden's 2020 white house win, is our guest on the heels of this morning's re-election announcement also ahead, the latest from sudan, where a temporary cease-fire has been announced, as some americans still struggle to exit the country. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. 33 past the hour welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful shot of the white house. so lush this morning in washington, d.c. so we're going to find out this summer if former president donald trump will face charges in the fulton county, georgia, investigation into possible election interference. fulton county district attorney fani willis said she'd announce a decision on charging during the state superior court's fourth term, which begins july 11th and ends on september 1st there's your timeline. if charged, it would be the second criminal indictment of the former president trump is currently facing charges in manhattan on 34 counts of falsifying business records. he's pleaded not guilty in that

case and calls the georgia probe politically motivated. the new timeline comes from a letter from the district attorney to the fulton county sheriff, asking the department to get ready for any potential response to her decision a spokesperson for the d.a.'s office has declined to comment what do you make of that >> what i make is what claire mccaskill said yesterday on the cold show, justice delayed is justice denied george conway, why doesn't she just wait until, like, the start of the paris olympics in 2024? maybe when the flame goes up for the olympic torch, drop it then. maybe she can wait until 2027. this is ridiculous this call was made on january 2nd of 2021. we had a grand jury impaneled. they came back with multiple suggestions for indictments. she continues to delay again, what's the problem with

that first of all, they'd had all the evidence for a really long time. secondly, the closer this comes to election season, the more political it looks, the more politicized it will be i just -- again, i just have absolutely no idea why this has not been -- why this indictment hasn't been dropped a long time ago. it is one of the most serious of the charges against donald trump, and it appears to be, at least on the surface, one of the easiest to prove >> well, i, too, agree that i would rather see the case brought sooner rather than later because i really think it's not helpful to have these cases brought too close to the silly season, the election season. that being said, it's not quite as simple a case as you have just made it out to be if it were just about that one phone call, i would agree with you. that phone call, i think, was

pretty damning evidence that raffensperger recorded about trump trying to coerce him into finding the exact number of votes. but there's a lot of other things the fake electors are a big issue. and we've seen papers recently that show there may be some of those -- it may be that some of those fake electors are flipping on one another that's a big development that's something that's worth her pursuing >> gene, though, we already had a grand jury in georgia. i'm not exactly sure why they have a fake grand jury and then a real grand jury. that seems really bizarre. >> yeah. >> we have a grand jury. they're coming back. breaking news, okay, they're suggesting numerous indictments. then the next day, oh, she doesn't have to follow that grand jury they have to now impanel a real grand jury it seems duplicative this just seems like it's taking an awfully long time again, i understand. i understand you have to build your case, but, my god, does it

really take -- we're at 27 months now i just don't understand the delay. >> yeah, it is a really weird system in georgia that they're using, where they have the grand jury to look into all this, goo o over all the evidence, then make their recommendations. then they have to bring in a whole other grand jury prix presumably, they don't go through as long a process with this new grand jury, and they can get to a conclusion more quickly. like everybody else, i'm frustrated if it is going to happen, let it happen and let's get on with it. but i do take george's point about the fake electors who may be flipping. others, who knows? maybe flipping remember when donald trump went on a rant about how, "i hate all this flipping, all this flipping"?

well, it may be happening in georgia, and it'd make a stronger case. after all, you want a strong case if you're going to charge the former president. >> apparently, we wait until the summer to hear about that. meanwhile, jury selection in the lawsuit brought by a woman who accused donald trump of raping her is scheduled to begin today. magazine columnist, carroll, said trump assaulted her in a department store in a dressing room in new york in the 1990s. trump denies it, saying the alleged incident never happened. carroll is also suing trump for defaming her with his denials. the lawsuit is a civil case, meaning trump does not face any charges. a jury could, however, order him to pay carroll monetary damages that experts say could amount to millions of dollars. trump has indicated he likely won't attend the trial due to, quote, logistical burdens. george conway, donald trump infamously said a few years ago, this didn't happen because, quote, she's not my type, talking about carroll. can you explain how the statute

of limitations, there is a carveout in the law that allows her to bring this lawsuit for a year here. >> that's right. the original lawsuit that jean carroll brought was for the defamation that he engaged in wen h in 2019 when he said, basically, she's lying. claims of sexual assault for people were sexual assaulted many, many years ago, they have a window of a year or two to file old cases it wasn't designed for this case, but it was designed generally for these old sexual harassment or sexual abuse or rape cases that have been sitting there over time and the victims never reported it. that's what allows this case to proceed also as a civil rape trial. it is beginningoing to be a fas, fascinating moment.

>> all right george conway, thank you very much for being on this morning a lot going on coming up, the latest on the stalemate over spending on capitol hill house speaker kevin mccarthy is moving forward with his original plan to raise the debt limit despite concern over support among his caucus plus, senator joe manchin played a key role in passing the inflation reduction act. now, the west virginia democrat is threatening to vote to repeal the landmark legislation we'll tell you why. alsoahead, significant changes in staffing and funding are taking effect at the irs steve rattner joins us with charts on what it means for taxpayers. "morning joe" will be right back i only need 11,000 votes fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. so, look, all i want to do is this i just want to find 11,780

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45 past the hour what a beautiful day in washington as millions of americans wait for their tax refunds with the april 18th filing deadline behind us this year, significant changes in staffing and funding at the irs have started taking effect our next guest says that's good news for those who follow the tax laws, bad news for those trying to cut corners. former treasury official, "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner is at the big wall with his charts. steve, the funding has revived irs staffing and also

enforcement. explain what that means. >> sure, mika. today is a particularly good day to celebrate an important achievement of the biden administration, which is, in effect, reform, revitalize, whatever you call it, the irs. let's look at the numbers. what you see here is irs staffing going back to 1992. it has been going all the way down from almost 120,000 staff members down here into the 70,000 range that really was the republicans trying to starve the beast if you cut off funding and staffing for the irs, perhaps people cannot pay their taxes as religiously. in fact, that's what's happened, as i'll show in a second but this has all changed it changed a bit with the cares act pushed through by democrats, which increased funding for the irs. $80 billion in the ira is going to take staffing all the way back up to here. not all the way back to where it was, but a big, positive boost why is the cut in staffing so important? here's what happened to the chances of an american getting

audited. if you had over $10 million of adjusted gross income back in 2010, you had over a 20% chance of getting audited that drop, drop, drop, dropped, and now you're duown here under 5% for 2019, the most recent year we have audit statistics for of the percentage of people getting audited. not all that is staff. that staff will go to a bunch of things, but a lot will be to fix this problem and get americans to pay their fair share, as the president has been promising. >> some of the funding, as we move too your second chart, is hiring staff 80,000 new staff at the irs. contrary to claims we heard from prominent republican senators, these were not people coming to knock on your door with ar-15s they were manning computers and answering phones. >> exactly right, willie to your point about answering phones and so forth, look at this this uses a lot of the money that cares put in place, and

it'll get better as the biden money comes into place if you look here, you'll see that just last year, one year ago, if you called the irs, you had maybe a 15% chance of getting your call answered in 2023, the tax season that just ended a week or so ago, that number went up to almost 90%. similar to that, last year, if you got through to the irs, you got put on hold. you waited for 27 minutes, on average, to get your call answered today, you're waiting less than five minutes to get your call answered so they hired 5,000 people using cares act money to improve the service, and this is what you're getting. it's going to get better as they continue to hire more of those 87,000 people who are not carrying ar-15s, as you said. >> that's good news for regular people trying to get their tax refund, for example, that previously was taking a long, long time. let's move to your third chart, steve, where you say irs funding is shrinking the deficit and

going after the tax gap. how is it doing that >> so when people don't get audited, they tend to start to cut corners. i'm not saying they're tax evaders, but i think you can call them tax avoiders not necessarily paying every penny of tax that, under the rules, they should pay there have been estimates done on this. treasury did an estimate in 2016 using numbers from 2014 to 2016. what they found was that americans paid an average each of those years of $2.8 trillion in individual income taxes the irs collected $68 billion through its audit process and getting people to pay what they owe. there's another $428 billion a year that the irs was not collecting because it didn't have the staff, basically, to enforce its rules. as that happens, here's what the congressional budget office thinks is going to happen. the pink down here is the

additional $80 billion of funding that biden and congress are providing to the irs all this green are the extra revenues that they project they will collect between now and 2031, $177 billion of extra revenues, which gives you a net cumulative of $100 billion of deficit reduction over this period of time, between now and 2031 not only are we going to get, w hopefully, people to pay their fair share of taxes, we'll make a noticeable dent in the budget deficit, which we all know is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. so it is a win-win for everybody except people who are trying not to pay what they really owe to the irs. >> yeah, some important numbers in there perhaps most important of all, steve, to your second chart, four-minute hold times we're down to with the irs only take so much of that music. that's some good news. former treasury official, "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner, thanks so much. ahead, we'll look at the

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of the senate gop's campaign arm, made the announcement on donald trump jr.'s podcast >> the best four years i've had in the u.s. senate is when president trump was serving in the oval office. we had a country that was respected and strong joe biden has empowered and emboldened our adversaries by his weakness he shivers under his desk during the day, and our adversaries now are getting increasingly bolder. that is very, very dangerous for the world. he's got one more thing that we got to finish up, and that is, let's finish building the wall and finish securing our southern border to protect our communities. i'll tell ya, don, meth and fentanyl, the drugs are destroying so many montana communities. for these reasons and many other, i'm proud to endorse donald j. trump for president of the united states. >> you have the head of the campaign arm of the united states senate saying, we are with donald trump at the point >> yeah.

>> donald trump lost them the senate. >> exactly i think that's why. >> many, many times. >> i think he wants trump inside the tent, and i think he is hoping he'll get better candidates, or at least not get saddled with the likes of herschel walker and dr. oz so if he tries to keep trump close and keep trump happy, then maybe trump won't, you know, give him the next insane candidate who can't win. >> is this, jen, a sign that the trump campaign is being professional this time around, lining up early endorsements we talked about how they out maneuvered governor desantis in florida for the lawmakers there. it is another step in the right direction, building momentum. >> they've been doing a lot of things behind the scenes that we don't necessarily see. i'm a democrat i wouldn't have exposure to it they're pretty smart the fact that, like the trump staff that i would talk to say, it matters that desantis isn't charming and matters that trump

is i don't see that charming side of trump, but he writes letters to people. >> yeah. >> he works endorsements and does these things that, you know, actually do matter. >> yeah. >> that's a smart move for trump. i don't know if it is for daines. >> it is smart for trump, and i think it makes a difference, actually it made a difference in florida. >> so far, the trump campaign is focused solely on ron desantis, looking to get him out of the way as donald trump steamrolls to the nomination potentially. gene robinson, great to see you, particularly at the desk in new york come back soon. >> great to be here. coming up, president biden officially launches his bid for a second term, just this morning. plus, a chapter closes on cable's trump war. we have new analysis of yesterday's high-profile network exits. we're back in 90 seconds

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four years ago, i said we were in the battle for the soul of america, and we still are. the question we're facing is whether in the years ahead, we have more freedom or less freedom, more rights or fewer. i know what i want the answer to be, and i think you do, too. this is not a time to be complacent that's why i'm running for re-election. i know america i know we're good and decent people i know we're still a country that believes in honesty and respect and treating each other with dignity

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let's finish this job. i know we can. >> president joe biden made it official this morning, he is running for a second term. that was part of the video announcement that he posted at the top of the 6:00 hour of "morning joe." wher welcome back it is tuesday, april 25th. jonathan lemire and jennifer palmieri are still with us joining the conversation, former senator and now a political analyst, claire mccaskill. msnbc contributor mike barnicle. and writer at large for "the new york times" and the "sunday magazine," jim is with us. >> we'll talk about the major news from fox. first, mike barnicle, your thoughts on president biden's re-election announcement >> you know, i thought the announcement was pretty skillful in the sense it gives you an introduction into joe biden, again, another introduction. his calmness, his deliberateness, his avoidance of calamity, his desire to calm

this country down. he's going to walk us through it he's not going to run through it he's going to be joe biden i think he's very familiar to people he's become more familiar. he is going to stand out in an age where people are yelling and screami ing on both sides of the political aisle. yet, here he is, just the facts, man, calmly, deliberately, and pump the brakes on the riotous atmosphere that we cling to each and every day in the news. >> you know, claire, i was told very early on when i started campaigning against an incumbent that, when you're running against anybody, it's all about contrasts. what's the contrast you take to voters with joe biden, we do have that calmness nobody is calling him mr. excitement nobody is shouting out "hope and change." nobody is shouting out that it's morning in america

you have a guy that's calm it doesn't excite many people, but it may make the difference where the normal is carnage, retribution, american carnage and "i am your retribution." talk about the contrast and how the light touch, the low key approach may be the most dramatic strategy this year. >> you know, i was interested in a poll when i saw it over the last couple weeks that tried to measure how people felt about the two parties in terms of extremism. because there's always an allegation by those in the republican party that, somehow the democratic party is full of extremists not anymore in america most americans agree that the republican party has become very, very extreme that's the contrast. the contrast is between somebody you know well, somebody who

represents the norms of this country, in terms of uniting people and appealing to our better angels and looking up rather than down as opposed to a party that has been captured by a small minority of people, and they're doing things in my state and many other states that are abhorrent to independent voters. whether it's forcing a birth, government-forced birth on a rape victim, whether it's the carnage of guns in this country and a refusal in the republican party to recognize that that's part of the problem. all of those things are in joe biden's corner let's remember, joe, let's remember, this is a binary choice this isn't a referendum on joe biden. this is, who do you like better? i think joe biden is in a pretty good place right now. >> jen, you've run presidential campaigns. particularly intersested in you view of what we saw this morning in this rollout. also, sort of a continuation of the message of the white house

reading what happened in the midterm elections just a few months ago it was a lot of people in this country saying, whoa, a lot of you have gone too far, whether it's on guns and the school shootings we've seen in recent weeks even, and on abortion. just yesterday, north dakota passed a six-week abortion ban with only slim rape, incest, medical emergency exceptions, up to six weeks and nothing after that republicans kind of burrowing in on those positions, and the white house saying, we agree we think they've gone too far. >> it's a big moment in american history, and it is hard to p capture that in a video, but he did a good job do you want more freedom or less, more rights or less rights he's bringing it to the high level. democracy is at stake. fundamental rights for women are at stake that's what's happening in this election also talking about, they have a solid record of accomplishments. a lot of people are still not feeling great about the economy. they need to prove these things are working. they have, you know -- they can do that over the course of the next 18 months until the actual

election an agenda. those are things you have to prosecute the argument on. don't just rely on the contrast, but the contrast is fundamentally there. the contrast with trump or whoever the maga republican is, you know, if it's desantis or someone else, in terms of rights that they continue to advocate to take away from women, democracy being under threat, voters get it. they turned out in 2020 in huge numbers to vote for him. they turned out in '22 in big numbers to vote for democrats and to reject the election deniers. you have to prosecute that argument the high level of what is at stake in terms of democracy, as well as accomplishments, what you'll do for people in their everyday life. >> it's worth noting the remarkable journey biden has come third bid for the presidency in 2019, remember, he failed so poorly in iowa and new hampshire, and then south carolina, with the help of congressman clyburn's endorsement -- and we'll talk to him soon -- rallies to not just

win the nomination but the presidency now, unchallenged. no one, no credible primary threat no one from the democratic party. he has the party behind him. you know, despite concerns about the economy or his age, he can point to a robust legislative record and, we should note his leadership on the world stage with the war in ukraine. rong position heading forward into a ve president, kamala harris, also featured prominently in that video. we'll talk more about this coming up. we turn now to the major move from fox news the network is cutting ties with right-wing host tucker carlson amid allegations of sexism and bigotry within his staff according to "the los angeles times" which cited situation, carlson's exit is related to the discrimination lawsuit filed by

abby grossberg, the producer fired by the network last month. justin wells has also been terminated here's what grossberg told nbc's cynthia mcfadden in an interview a few weeks ago. >> after being denied a promotion, she moved to tucker carlson's show. >> women were objectified. it was a game. it was a sport female politicians who came on the show were mocked there were debates about who they'd rather sleep with c-word all the time. >> the network has called grossberg's claims, quote, unmeritorious, excuse me, and riddled with false allegations it was also reported that murdoch was concerned about tucker's coverage of the january 6th attack on the capitol. nbc news reached out to carlson for comment and has not yet heard back we've heard grossberg's attorney

talking about some of the evidence they have if this were to move forward with carlson still in place. >> right. >> could be tricky for them. >> yeah. jim, it's still probably going to be tricky we had a lot of different people trying to pinpoint exactly why tucker carlson had left. maybe it was the lawsuit by the producer that alleged anti-semitism, bigotry, misogyny maybe it was the ray epps embarrassment, the lies about january 6th that "60 minutes" highlighted a couple nights ago. maybe this was his part in the $780 million lawsuit or the $2.7 billion lawsuit coming up. maybe it was the insults against the front office at fox news maybe it was actually, choose e, all of the above at some point, rupert murdoch say, "i don't want to go on the

stand. >> future cases. >> "with this guy still, with me having to answer for this guy. at some point, rupert murdoch said to himself, "i'm rupert murdoch. i'm bigger than any host i don't have to put up with this." >> yeah, well, certainly all of the above seems to be at play here, absolutely let's not forget lachlan murdoch either, rupert's son who is now officially running the network, the successor to the throne as of this point. they had gone through so many sexual harassment scandals over the years. let's not forget, they lost their founder, sort of the god of the network in the beginning, in the earlier years, roger ailes. they lost their previous top star, bill o'reilly, due to sexual harassment allegations. this isn't quite harassment but it is in the same universe they don't want to be near it. the dominion case, had it gone to trial, you were going to hear a lot more of this, which was

also going to be obviously highly problematic. >> jim, you were in delaware we talked to you last week outside when the set mmetlement reached in the dominion case it says tucker's firing wasn't about the dominion case, but did rupert murdoch, did leadership hear from the board, perhaps, saying, we can't continue to write $800 million deaf nation che -- defamation checks, and there is probably another coming with smartmatic, do we know if that was involved >> we know paul ryan was a member of the board. his word carries a lot of weight, and there's no way that any board at any major company is going to put up with suit after suit after suit with these indications that -- this obvious misbehavior inside the offices of one of the major stars. again, we'll see the maybe they deny the charges. we'll hear more about that

any responsible board would have to say that. >> jim, from your poinreporting understand that lachlan murdoch and tucker carlson were fairly close, or seemed to be fairly close. do we know yet who made the call to tucker carlson to tell him it was over, that you're done was it lachlan, rupert do we know >> my colleagues reported that lachlan and suzanne scott decides friday night it has to happen, but scott makes the call it is yesterday morning. tucker is, by all accounts, completely blindsided by this. in terms of the closeness between lachlan murdoch and tucker carlson, as i've understood it over the last fefew months, maybe a year, the supposed closeness was definitely changing. lachlan was souring a little bit. because tucker carlson was using

the supposed closeness as license to do whatever he wanted it became almost an unaccountable agent within the network. that was also so clear in this dominion cdocumentation. >> claire mccaskill, so this questions come to mind the first would be what of the january 6th tapes, which i don't think anybody here has an answer for. raise your hand if you do. then i just wonder if some of the questions that come to your mind, especially with your legal e expertise, is are there possibly some aspects of this that have to do with the very similar lawsuits down the line that will be using some of the same evidence perhaps is there more news to come out of fox news as they prepare for those cases. of course, rupert murdoch himself was very close to being put on the stand and cornered and sort of forced to account for this >> yeah, as a lawyer, i

understand why they didn't want to fire him before the dominion case was concluded that would look like an admission of some kind of liability. and i do think that smartmatic, the other company that's suing them over the same kind of allegations, i think they'll end up getting a settlement, too, rather than there being a trial. the case that i think really was weighing on fox was the abby grossman suit. she is going to be on nicolle wallace' wallace's show this afternoon. her lawyer says she has 90 tapes, 90 tapes of various conversations that are relevant to her claim that's a lot of evidence that is very difficult to overcome so i think they wanted him gone before then. you know, the interesting thing to me is, what is he is going to do i know that everyone was in a tizzy, oh, fox is going to lose all their viewers.

but i remember the same thing when glenn beck left >> right. >> i remember the same thing'ret by the way, has anyone seen them lately i haven't. i'm not sure many people have. i think this is a very tough thing for tucker carlson he really has no place to go that is not a step down. i think that's why you haven't heard much from him at this point. maybe from his 3 million viewers, but not from the vast majority of america or from him. >> brett stevens had an interesting, interesting column this morning in "the new york times," talking about possibly his future also, the missed opportunity that a lot of conservatives are feeling about fox news in general. there could have actually been a center right news program without the crazy that would have been a nice counterbalance.

that opportunity obviously missed we'll see what happens moving forward. claire, i want to ask you about something that you talked about yesterday. that is, the limited impact that any cable news show host, as much as it, of course, would break our hearts to hear this. i've always done the math when people say, oh, so and so is destroying america such and such is destroying america. i go, okay, well, pick the top news hosts they have 3 million viewers a day. top news host, 3, 3.5 maybe million viewers a day. 330 million americans. 150 million, 160 million americans vote in elections. you have this brilliant insight, the only thing that people like tucker carlson do is radicalize their base and make them unelectable to the other 125 million americans who don't watch cable news >> yeah. you know, in a backhanded way,

tucker carlson did the country a favor. because he drove people to extreme positions that -- and these are the people that make the most noise, joe. these are the people that called our offices when we were in congress the people who make the most noise have the strongest, most passionate feelings about any subject. that's who his audience was. and they have made so much noise that they have brought the republican party to their knees at the altar of extremism. tucker carlson has a big amount of responsibility for that and it is that extremism, as i mentioned before, that is the very best thing going for the democratic party because independent voters, suburban voters, mothers all over america that are -- think it's just exactly great to click their child in a car seat because they're required to for the child's safety, then send them off to a school where there

could be an ar-47 slaughtering innocent children as they sit at their desks. they are tired of this tucker carlson really is, in a large degree, responsible for this radicalization of the republican party you see it all over capitol hill frankly, on many of the other hosts on fox news. i'm not sure they're making the republicans any more electable they may make them a little more noisy and crazy, but not more electable. >> jim, what is your sense of the impact of all this on fox news demise had been written before, as claire points out we talked in the earlier hour, when bill o'reilly left, everyone went, there goes the tent pole, and then tucker carlson becomes the most popular host getting rid of tucker here, the huge dominion settlement, maybe more to come, does this change things at all? is the culture changing? is the leadership taking more seriously some of the problems inside fox news. >> first of all, i'm reminded of an old story

when fox news lost one of their big stars in 2001, paul lizon, roger ailes said, i can put a dead raccoon on the air, and i'll still get the ratings there is a history of fox losing talent and it doesn't affect the network. these are different times. there are new challenges from the right. tucker carlson does have a fan base that will be angry. that's what drove them to distraction in the interim after the election, when they moved into more conspiracy, stolen election content it really remains to be seen because that network has gotten where it is by pushing boundaries, by going to places that cable news had never gone before so we'll see sorry, i'm still afraid to predict, but they'll survive this. >> yeah. the other difference here is there is a former president who will weigh in as much or as little as he wants, probably as much writer at large for "new york times," jim, thank you for your

coverage and being on early this morning. >> thanks, jim. ahead on "morning joe," we'll be joined by one of president biden's top congressional supporters, democratic congressman jim clyburn, on the heels of this morning's big re-election announcement plus, a look a what we can expect when jury selection gets under way today in a lawsuit accusing former president trump of rape. and the behind the scenes story of the good friday agreement. joe's exclusive conversations with the architects of the historic peace deal that almost didn't happen. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ hey, man. nice pace! clearly, you're a safe driver. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! [sfx: limu squawks] whoo! we gotta go again.

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the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day, will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for free speech,

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to become a guardian of liberty today. (music throughout) get the royal treatment. join the millions playing royal match today. download now. >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ for decades, a period of intense violence known as the troubles ravaged northern ire ireland. 25 years ago, world leaders, politicians and belligerents from all sides locked themselves

in a room and hammered out an historic peace deal. here is the story of how it all came to be ♪ >> the ira member, russell, escaped from prison five years ago, after he was turned over to police in northern ireland, bombings, shootings and attacks on police broke out. >> in december, the ira claimed responsibility for this bombing in central belfast >> for three decades, there has been a bloody war on the streets of ireland

there was a generation of hatred and violence. >> soldiers opened fire. 14 people were killed. the outrage over the slaughter and the guns used to seem rev revenge. >> the inevitable confrontation. >> growing up in the '60s and the '70s, nobody could have ever imagined peace would come to northern ireland. >> i was actually living in england, going to school when the trouble started. i saw it unfold from the beginning until the end. i just hated it. i came to ireland a couple times when i was a student i loved it wanted something to happen >> just sailed from mullaghamore

with his family. it was exploded, and only bits of wood were found in the water. there was an explosion, and the boat disappeared the provisional wing of the irish republican army claimed responsibility, calling it an execution. >> growing up in the states, you'd see, of course, the assassination, the bombing, the bombings you'd see all the strife going on in northern ireland, the troubles how in the world did you get from there to where you were 25 years ago? >> and where we are today. >> yeah, it is interesting i was growing up during all the time of the troubles >> it was the ira's boldest assault on the british government most of britain's officials were in the grand hotel from the time the bomb went off. parts of seven floors collapsed. the ira managed to plant the 20-pound bomb in a room, though the hotel had been off limits since monday to the general r

public thatcher is known as the iron lady, and she seemed unphased, efb even though the bathroom in her sw suite exploded she had been in there seconds before the explosion. >> fact of terrorism, mons monst monstrosity. we were able to do it because it was the political leadership i mean, in northern ireland, parties prepared to move on and to try to embrace a different future >> you and president clinton, you were insistent that jerry adams and shi feng be involved why? there was a lot of trouble. >> trouble started in the '60s there were two efforts to make a solution before us one was '74. didn't work. then the next one was 11 years

later, '85. the violence got worse and worse. '85 didn't work. again, people tried their best '98 then we calculated that the reason the other two didn't work, talks were inconclusive, the people causing the problems weren't at the table. we had to devise a way, which was risky, of being able to bring in people from the s shi feng. >> what did this mean? >> the biggest thing was stopping the killing i was in school when the trouble started. you know, every day, i went from being kind of two years from the end of second level, then through college, then through work, you know, then all the way to politics, up to prime minister, and the trouble was still on so the main thing was stop the violence, stop the killing every day, the story was, you know, the bombs, who was killed, what funerals were on.

>> simply by landing here, air force one made history as the first american president to visit here arrived to the most enthusiastic crowds he's seen in some time. they pushed back police to meet the president who, like one in four u.s. presidents, claims roots in ireland it was unmistakably a day of events designed for the president and decidedly pro-peace, beginning with an arranged curb-side meeting with the head of the political wing, jerry adams, head of the s shi feng. >> the british were angry at you, for not just adams but also the handshake in belfast. >> yeah. >> the british government. jerry adams said they were trying up to the last second to stop you from doing that. >> they were you have to, at some point, be willing to talk. if you make an agreement, be willing to trugs trust. i thought, you know, that's a universal principle. it ought to apply here i thought, if they got going, they might keep going.

if they had the right sort of guidance in a situation like this, it's been going on for 30 years, where a lot of innocent people have been killed that didn't have anything to do with politics on either side, there's a lot of adjustment vinvolved people have to get used to the fact that, in order to get well, they may not be able to get even >> a large van was hijacked by a man and a girl they were later joined by another man. the driver was ordered to park beside the hotel the people inside were given 15 minutes to get out 45 minutes passed. then the bomb went off >> bill and i came in 1995, and i was just remembering, you know, we stayed at the europa hotel here in belfast. it is the most bombed hotel in

the world. bill said, you know, if we're going to ask people to take risks for peace, if we're going to ask people to give up their, you know, ideas about what they should get and make a compromise, we have to show that we're willing to connect to them and make a stand ourselves we saw firsthand that this was going to be an arduous undertaking. although it is a short period of time in history, a couple years, really, that led to the good friday agreement, it happened in large part because the people of northern ireland wanted it they finally had had enough. they said, "we've got to do better than this." >> everyone was prepared to take risks, and then the people who could affect it most deeply were prepared to work on it leaders were prepared to think differently. ireland was a changing country there was a different feeling, if you like. yeah, it came together then we had people from the outside, in this case, president

clinton, who had both the intelligence to understand the issue and the application to work at it >> yet, with everybody working together, you describe, you've described how this came together at the last second it was crazy. >> yeah, we were literally locked up in this not very nice building for days. >> george mitchell was smart on that one get them in a -- i heard about this building. jerry adams actually said, it was not a very good place to negotiate. >> it was a horrible place to negotiate. it was horrible. no proper facilities the building was not conducive at all and then as the days went on, because, originally, i was supposed to come, we do the agreement. when i got to northern ireland, the whole thing collapsed, effectively, because there was no agreement we had to do days of redrafting and, you know, i must have had about six hours' sleep in all the three days

but as the thing went on, it just became almost a pressure on everyone you thought, you cannot go out afterwards and say, okay, i'm afraid there's nothing so there was a huge pressure on the people inside the building >> i believe that today, courage has triumphed. i said when i arrived here on wednesday night that i felt the hand of history upon us. today, i hope that the burden of history can at long last start to be lifted from our shoulders. >> the people got out ahead of the politicians. they were sick and tired of people dying they were tired ofwalking down the street at night. when the good friday accord was put up for a vote, it passed by 94% in the -- in ireland, also 71% in northern ireland. it showed you that the people got out ahead of the politicians in a way and gave them the

courage to do what had to be done. >> the parties have made brave decisions. they have chosen hope over hate. the promise of the future over the poison of the past in so doing, already, they have written a new chapter in the rich history of their islands. >> you had said that the good friday agreement was more of an agreement that was very complex, that it was more of an agreement to go on a journey together than it was to reach a destination. >> i don't think the agreement is so complex. you know, you can't understand anything about this place unless you consider the journey and the context of the british colonization of ireland. people were denied basic rights. part of the agreement was rights, your rights. it isn't a destination it was an agreement on the

journey, with an agreement on the destination so people can decide, which is a huge breakthrough, whether they want to live in united ireland or with the union we didn't have that until the good friday agreement talks. it's much better despite frustrations some people may have it's much better than it was before we had the agreement. >> these days, british troops in northern ireland's rural border areas are being attacked more often by the irish republican army it is felt this is happening because the british soldiers have been beating the ira badly in the cities and towns, thus forcing the terrorists out into the countryside near their hideouts in southern ireland in general, the soldiers' work has bolstered public confidence. this has helped pave the way for political developments that raise hopes of peace after four years of bloodshed. >> what does this mean 25 years later to you personally and also

to northern ireland? >> it was a great moment for american diplomacy and leadership to help, you know, end a conflict that took 3,700 lives, one after another for so many years you know, the damage and the distrust and the division was so deep to see what consistent diplomacy can actually produce when people who have very different, opposing ideas about what they want for their own future, will take risks to compromise, to get to peace. >> the chance to live in peace the chance to raise children out of the shadow of fear. >> today, it's about the promise of a bright future, a day when we hope a line can be drawn under the bloody past. >> i think northern ireland is a peaceful place we had huge support from the united states. you know, a lot of support from the european union it's made a huge difference to this place

this place has gone well there are a lot of investments it'll be far better, far better a day if we can just move to the next day. >> i don't think we should be fueled by hatred hatred is a poison, and we should eradicate that from our thoughts and from our hearts move forward on the basis that every human being has the right to take the day. treat people the way you'd want to be treated yourself. >> how difficult was it for you to talk to members of your party, to talk to the british public, i guess to talk to the royal family, and say, "we're going to sit down with shi feng. we're going to sit down with jerry adams. we're going to sit down, also, with people who are responsible for the killing of people that you knew and loved"? >> it was very difficult i sat with people, the families of those that were killed in the terrorism. what do you say to them? they say, "you're sitting down

with my child's murderer, and you're shaking hands with them." in the end, it is strange. interesting thing about human nature, they divided into two categories the people who couldn't forgive you for it, and the people who said, "okay, i understand," and provided, "you can tell me if you get this agreement, someone is not going to suffer like i have suffered, their child is not going to die like my child died, then you do it." >> the appearance of 8-year-old catherine hammel, whose innocent welcome to the president turned sad when she spoke of the death of her father, murdered in their home when she was 6 months old, in her mother's arms losing a father in the war of catholics versus prod stents. >> my first daddy died in the troubles, the saddest day of my life i still think of him ireland is nice and peaceful i like having peace and quiet for a change, instead of people shooting and killing my christmas wish is that peace and love will last in ireland forever.

>> when they talk here about the troubles, it's often capitalized a vivid and recent memory. the president tried today to capitalize on this visit to further the peace, promoting a new era and promising ireland a partner. >> if you enter that era determined to build a new age of peace, the united states of america will proudly stand with you. [ applause ] >> joe also spoke with president biden in ireland about the stability the good friday agreement brought to the region, even as new challenges emerge. >> we have in the united states thousands of employees that are irish-americans -- irish, excuse me, in america a lot of american corporations invested here, as well i think we're on the cusp of some really -- to make progress

that my grandfather thought would never occur. >> right it is fascinate, the progress that has been made, as you said over the past 25 years, but they don't even have a functioning government they haven't since last may. >> yes. >> i'm wondering, what message do you send to them to get them moving back forward? because brexit has really crippled this process, hasn't it >> well, but the british have come along and come up with another approach dealing with the next piece of this to move i think it's going to work look, one of the things people are looking for, they're looking for economic growth and prosperity wen th when that occurs, it only occurs in circumstances s where the institutions are constrong i'm convinced in talking to the leaders -- excuse me -- that they're contemplating that, trying to get the votes in their own operation to get i done. i think it is going to -- and i

think, look, i think that the british prime minister has gone out of his way to try to make it work. >> now, nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella has more on the progress we've seen over the past quarter century and where things also have stalled >> reporter: easter in northern ireland, the start of the marching season when protestants and catholics parade the two sides divided. >> you can see the fencing over there. >> that fence right there. >> that is the part of the peace line in west belfast. >> reporter: paul donnelly is a tour guide, walking visitors through the history of the troubles so we're in the year 2023. >> 2023, yup. >> reporter: 25 years after the good friday agreement was signed, and there's still a fence separating protestants and catholics? >> absolutely. that fence is now longer than

the berlin wall. it's been in place longer than the berlin wall actually stood pre-1994, even after, you had helicopters in the sky you had police and army roadblocks in an area like this, continually stopping and searching. ♪ >> reporter: enter the lead singer for the boomtown brats, the irish rock band, one of the few to head north of the border to play belfast in the 1970s >> the audience were insane. you know, really insane. it was the best fun ever i was pretty outspoken about my views on the murderers and the killers. we would have a heavily armed presence in our guard for that reason that's how pathetic it was a pop singer in the top ten shooting his mouth off, and he needs, in front of a three-armored cars, armoured ca

>> reporter: 25 years later, in some ways, the past is still alive. these gates and others around the city are locked every night, separating catholics and protestants. >> i didn't meet a catholic until i was 14. >> really? >> yeah. >> reporter: sam grew up in a staunch propetestant unionist family now in the punk band gender chores, singing about affordable housing, lgbtq rights, not the divide. >> we're getting really fed up with it because, you know, it's politics focusing on a time that's already passed. they can do nothing about it whereas, now, there's, like, so many things that need action and attention. >> reporter: among those things,

brexit malachi is a northern irish journalist and author. >> we have the democratic unions party boycotting the institutions of the agreement, the parliament and essentially sharing parliament, which they need to be in for it to work they are boycotting it because they are pro-brexit but opposed to the compromises arrived at to make brexit work, to improve trade between northern ireland and the european union, the rest of ireland, in other words >> reporter: but there is progress >> good friday agreement is a classic illustration of what politics is capable of doing and undoing. it's capable of undoing a war in which 3,500 people were killed murdered, tortured, kidnapped, maimed and 50,000 were injured. the possibility of just shooting it all out until everyone is

exhausted is always there. if there is a political el egane elegance, an intelligence, history can be negotiated with that's what happened. >> reporter: kelly cobiella, nbc news, belfast, northern ireland. coming up, we'll have the very latest on diplomatic efforts in sudan the state department says a temporary cease-fire is in effect this morning, as thousands of u.s. citizens remain inside the country where rival groups have been fighting for control. "morning joe" will be right back

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come again. -sorry, what was that? introducing the next generation 10g network only from xfinity. the future starts now. we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. morning in sudan after violence prompted evacuations of foreign nationals there. secretary of state blinken announced the cease-fire yesterday afternoon.

rival military groups have been battling for control of the country and previous cease-fire attempts have failed >> reporter: the race is on this morning from sudan in case the shaky 72-hour cease-fire between two warring generals breaks down while europeans have been taken out the best way out is by road. long drives to egypt, ethiopia for increasingly port sudan on the red seacoast while the united states is not running convoys and has no plans for a mass rescue the administration says it is providing information and watching from above with drones. >> some convoys moving people out, some of them have

encountered problems, including robbery, looting. >> reporter: the united states is also positioned a warship off the coast near port sudan in case a military evacuation is ordered or to provide medical care another ship is on the way but getting out is not a simple drive. shortages of gas, food and price gouging mean people have to improvise. this woman is an american travel writer who yesterday stranded in khartoum this morning is out of the capital for safety. >> i'm near a school turned into a refugee camp yesterday i fled khartoum and hitchhiked south there's no access to cash so i left with $20. >> reporter: foreigners are leaving sudan or trying to but many worry the fighting will get

worse once most are gone and the world's attention turns away. >> richard engel there. next, a live report on president biden's launch of the re-election campaign this morning. it is official we'll be joined by the co-chair of the national campaign, representative jim clyburn joins us when "morning joe" comes right back ♪♪ with skyrizi, most people who achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months... had lasting clearance through 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections, or a lower ability to fight them, may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. ♪nothing is everything♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. first, there's an idea and you do something about it for the first time with godaddy.

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i know america i know we're good and decent people a country that believes in honesty and respect and treating each other with dignity. that we're a nation where we give hate no safe harbor everyone should be given a fair share shot to succeed in this country. ♪ every generation of america

faced a moment when they have to defend democracy, stand up for personal freedom, stand up for the right to vote and the civil rights ♪ and this is our moment ♪ ♪ >> god love you, man. >> to biden! ♪ >> so if you're with me go to joe biden.com and sign up. let's finish this job. i know we can. >> that was part of the video released this morning announcing president biden's re-election campaign welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, april 25.

jonathan, michael, jen is with us and we have national affairs analyst john heilemann, host and producer of "the circus. what do you make of the president's video released at 6:00 a.m. this morning, heilemann? it seemed in a way very normal >> yeah. that's the brand, right? normalcy is the brand. >> it's nice. >> joe biden has a talent around him. making a good ad think about the ads in 2020 they were really strong piece of political communication. this is a strong piece of political communication. being not just normal but there's joe biden emotion. >> absolutely. >> forward motion. >> three takeaways finish the job i know america i know its history and people. and kamala harris. >> this is not a nation of hate. >> yes i'm a man who's been doing stuff

and has more to do the underlying thing they deal with is a notion of americans comfortable with the idea of an octogenarian president i have more stuff to do and in my sights. >> the argument is made about the age. i had an investor call me up saying joe biden should say if warren buffett quit at 82 there's people that wouldn't have made millions and millions of dollars because he had one of the best decades in the 80s. there are a lot of different arguments like that. i guess does it not matter that these first couple of years doesn't matter to voters

he won bipartisan legislation after another. does that matter >> clearly it does matter and mattered in the performance of democrats in the midterm it matters i do think that the reality that's out there for a lot of people is that people know grandparents and people recognize that this job is incredibly challenging job in any way a grandparent in the 80s you know that they are not what they once were. you see it in the polling. it is not an irresolvable conflict but it is not just a republican thing. democrats have the same concerns they're not dispositive. they're not fatal but they are things that it is one of the things that joe biden is going to have to address because

people across parties are -- want to make sure a guy in the 80s up to the job. that is a thing to be confronting from now all the way to election day i imagine. >> willie, an insider at the white house told me yesterday it is critical that joe biden seems like he wants to do this he is excited to do this and ea eager. not because he has to stop donald trump again has to be joy in the battle for joe biden. right now some of the white house are afraid that he is doing it out of a sense of duh the i to stop donald trump doesn't translate as well on the campaign trail as saying i want to do this i'm excited to do this and we're together let's take america. >> this is a different question. he is running in 2020 where he

could because of the pandemic needed to be home. couldn't be with crowds. can't make that argument anymore. this is a stren rous campaign on the trail over the next year and a half not immediately. out raising money first before he gets out into the country but this will be a very different campaign four years older than in 2020. joining us now correspondent mike memoli with more on this. you have covered joe biden for a decade or so what was the story behind the launch, the timing and the message when it rolled out this morning? >> this was never in doubt right? didn't matter how many times president biden said he intended to run for re-election but mystery until the campaign video popped this morning at 6:00 a.m. the first takeaway is the degree to which four years ago

president biden putt donald trump front and center said this is a battle for the soul of the nation this morning it is clear that trumpism if not trump himself is a threat to the freedom and the values of the country. a fascinating moment 36 secs in seeing donald trump in a half embrace with desantis and that if it is not trump on the ballot it is somebody like trump. second takeaway as you mentioned is vice president harris she is in the video 11 times president obama's announcement video didn't include vice president biden at the time. >> wow. >> shows the fact that - >> wow. >> republicans have made kamala harris front and center. nikki haley talked about joe and kamala over and over again

we'll see her play a big role on a major issue which is abortion rights the last and this speaks to the length of time covering joe biden is he is since running for the senate in 1972 has had a clear idea of what he thinks government is about and the democratic party and seeing in this video and seeing what that looks like biden advisers say he will run on the legislative accomplishments. when hillary clinton lost i spoke to him after saying that the democratic party, had been an elitism and not enough focus on the middle class and driving the presidency and the re-election campaign and see that clearly because the public event is a rally with union workers here in washington guys >> all right

mike memoli, thank you the marathon has begun put on the running shoes, baby thank you so much. mike, we were talking about joe biden's age. he is 80 donald trump turns 77 in a couple of months and not a paradigm of healthy living habits i think it is a contrast with desantis in the republican primary but that would be a great contrast for republicans up on the debate stage not so if it's donald trump and joe biden. >> yeah. the republicans will set up a contrast i don't think there's -- the president is not going to spend a lot of time talking about that contrast because it is so vivid in the minds of people six weeks, the abortion stuff state to state book burning the larger context of the

announcement is seeing joe biden really reintroduce himself to the country if that's possible after all these years as joe biden, i know you. i know the american family, the difference between heart ache and success. i know winning and losing. i know what your lives are like. i know what it is like to be behind on a mortgage payment and a car payment, raising children. the troubles, the torment, the successes. i know all about it because i'm a middle class guy even though i'm president of the united states i'm familiar with how you live identify himself with the american family. >> joe, i think mike barnacle, you encapsulated it well

i would sadd that he would say know grief and loss. america does know him and he needs to re-emphasize that but he feels a sense of duty there's the obvious threat of donald trump and everything he britos the table but unlike a desantis joe biden enjoys being with people. you can't stop him sometimes ask the staff. so there may be a sense of, well, would i rather be with my family and grand kids but i have to stay in he will enjoy himself. >> we shall see. let's bring in congressman jim clyburn of south carolina ser serving as national co-chair of the re-election.

jim, always great to see you what are your thoughts today four years later >> thank you for having me look we have a tremendous opportunity now to continue what i call a course correction. i do believe that joe biden feels very strongly that our country got off track in our pursuit of a more perfect union and hess dedicated to the proposition that we are back on track and we should continue moving forward i don't believe this is about stopping trump this is about continuing our pursuit of a more perfect union and glad to be a part of it. >> john heilemann? >> i'm curious about what you think. every incumbent president has certain challenges

what do you think are the greatest challenges joe biden has to face? we have been talking about reintroducing himself to the american people. what is the hill to climb to put himself in the position to win in november? >> two things. i think the president is going to have to deal with the whole issue of age he is 80 years old i'm 82 i do believe that he is up to task that is something that we cannot pretend is not on people's minds. so i think he has to show the energy that he is showing over the past several months and continue to pursue an agenda that will as he says build this economy from the bottom up and from the middle out so that people can feel a part of this you know, in politics i think it's one thing to tell people

what you going to do but people have to feel you i think that that's joe biden's long suit. i don't think people pay enough attention to that. just to hear somebody is one thing but when you get the feel that this person is feeling my pain, this person understands what i'm going through that is what makes the difference and that's why people keep underestimating him. you can't see feel you just got to feel it. >> congressman, it is jennifer how do you think -- biden has legislative accomplishments. a lot of american people don't feel the effects of the accomplishments. how do you talk to people so

that they understand what they accomplished for people and the difference it makes in their life >> i think they feel it. we will build out 100% of the internet in three to five years. most people because two thirds of the money to do it is coming from the rescue plan but people see the local governors making those announcements and don't connect it back to joe biden's rescue plan. and that is the thing that we have got to do get people to see what's happening with the insulin costs capped at $35 a month, that is because of the inflation reduction act. while you get the internet is not just of the infrastructure bill but it is also the rescue plan these plants that are being

built, we announced in south carolina the plant that volkswagen is building in columbia, south carolina plants up in new york, out in ohio, connect those back to this legislation that we have passed why when i see the classmates that came back from vietnam and got forgotten, when we did the pact act we picked up those vietnam veterans who got overlooked getting 10 and 20% and should be getting 80 and 90% disability. we fixed that in the pack act. in addition to what we did with the burn pitch in afghanistan and iraq we got to talk about this. we got it there. and people can see it, feel it i believe we've got to get them to know this is joe biden and

the vision for america. >> we noted several times watching the video the presence of vice president kamala harris throughout the video i'm curious how important she will be in this campaign and the potential re-election of joe biden. >> she is going to be very important. i think that we have got to notice the fact that the two big issues out there, one has to do with reproductive rights i have three daughters i know what the conversations are with them. i know how they feel about what's going on in the state legislatures and the sprupreme court has done we think she will be very, very important to the president she is demonstrated that she is also connected on another level. when she went down to tennessee i watched her and saw in her the future of our party and our

country. i do believe those last two big speeches she's made people felt her and they will feel her throughout this campaign. >> all right >> national co-chair for president biden's 2024 re-election campaign, congressman jim clyburn -- >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you sh everybody. >> john, republicans already attacking kamala harris. they think that's going to be an issue. listen i understand he's 80 years old. people always overthink this stuff. i have never met a person that voted for a candidate, presidential candidate because of the vice president. hasn't happened. maybe help bring a state over once in a while. >> almost never. >> attacks against kamala harris

leaves people going -- whatever. >> another thing that is done primarily to whip up frenzy within the republican base she is a black woman. >> she is a black woman. >> they're not into that there's a thing about a vice presidential choice. if you clear the bar and pick someone who is qualified to be president that's it. nobody cares about dick cheney or al gore or mike pence they had no consequence at all going forward. joe biden, there are people on the right with harsh things to say but you won't carry on the basis of attacking kamala harris jim clyburn mentioned it age. think back six months ago they

didn't know whether they wanted joe biden to run or not. the party coa lessed behind joe biden. it is going to be a huge problem. it is a huge task but the problem has the unity. he is their horse. >> it is like you don't talk about it just like jim said, you feel it. >> he has to have a campaign that's in motion needs to be a man in motion. by the way, that doesn't mean flying all over the country but everything that you do is forward thinking and talking about the future donald trump is talking about the past listen i have been around politics to know americans rather vote for an 80-year-old guy talking about the future than a 35-year-old

woman or guy talking about the past they don't want to the republicans all they want to do is talk about the lost cause. all they want to do is talk about how things used to be. >> perpetual - >> on the ranch in yellowstone come on, kevin costner finish the season strong but they are on what they consider to be yellowstone and a reason why it's so extraordinary. it is about a guy who's holding on to the past when it is irrelevant the world is passing by. he will do anything including kill people to hold on to the past and that's cool. on tv. to watch on tv but it is not political campaigns. people are interested about the future. >> mika is a romantic.

she is nostalgic but the mixture of a nostalgia and grievance is toxic that's where the republican party landed nostalgia for a country that never was for people left out of the american dream and also that kind of sense of grievance it is taken away from us that is a curdled milk in the mouth. it is a bad message. tastes bad when you -- smells bad when it comes out. tastes bad. >> yeah. >> thank you >> yuck! >> on the elemental base level when you talk about faith, americans talk about faith and returning back to being a christian nation, to be a nation of judeo christian values, they have replaced what my grand mom

would sing about the religion with the beatitudes and the prodigal son, the sermon on the mount and bless reasonable doubt the merciful and replaced it with a toxic christian nationalism with politicians talking about if jesus had an ar-15 he could have shot the way out of being crucified and the people who talk about being such great christians putting weapons of war in the children's hands to celebrate the birth of christ now listen maybe in your very small community in the small world maybe that's your idea of christianity wasn't jesus' idea christianity. more importantly, not what middle americans remember

growing up even when they claim to want to go back to this mythic past it is a more violent, resentful, angry past the people in middle america who decide who wins election - >> thank you we'll have more on the seismic shakeup at fox news with the ousting of tucker carlson. also ahead -- fulton county district attorney willis out with a new timeline to see an indictment against donald trump for election interference in georgia. you are watching "morning joe. we'll be right back. >> look at pensacola, florida. >> nice. my asthma felt anything but normal.

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we're going to move now to sur t surprising announcement from fox news yesterday that it has parted ways with right wing host tucker carlson. both "the new york times" and "the washington post" cite a source who say the decision to let carlson go made on friday by ceo of fox corporation and susan scott the chief executive of fox news media. >> i don't buy that. anybody -- i got to stop right there. anybody that has dealt with fox news over the past several years, they don't believe that rupert murdoch doesn't want to go on the stand again. let's bring in george conway doesn't want to face this.

>> there's more lawsuits that are similar. >> i'm surprised i understand reporters are fed what reporters are fed the first story was correct. "la times" saying this decision came from rupert murdoch who's calling the shots? why aren't there guardrails around tucker carlson? they're tight. but it goes up to rupert he is making that decision and disengaged so the truth it seems slipped out at first and that is a decision made by rupert murdoch. who will fire one of the most popular hosts at fox news? nobody under rupert murdoch. >> it is impossible. it was the highest rated show. the show that made the most

money. so it had to go up to rupert it would be -- he would be remiss as chairman of the board not to have involvement in the decision i think the story that it was something that was made at a much lower level is poppycock. susan scott has almost as much culpability as the anchors she was the deck officer she should go, too. >> i'm wondering if you see align wmt the future lawsuits down the pike similar to the dominion lawsuit that ended in a $787 million settlement. you wonder are they getting the ducks in a row saying the problem is gone? do you not see any potential

parallel or connection here? >> that is an interesting point. i think you could go two ways on this one is you could decide to fire him before all these other lawsuits get resolved to show you are prying to clean house. it is an admission of liability in a way it is an admission that your people at least some engaged in misbehavior. i think the reason why the former choice was made, the first choice is made is that the $787.5 million settlement payment is basically a floor for the smartmatic case. they have already -- the truth has come out and so, that's why i think they decided let's just do this now and get it over with. >> there's a question of the

inner workings of fox news and then tucker's role in the culture, not just conservative but american culture you had people from all over and prominent figures in the republican party lamenting this decision saying that tucker in some ways as big a figure recently as rush limbaugh. what is your reaction to all this >> i thought yesterday was one of the more surprising announcements. i know that bill o'reilly sometimes got higher ratings than carlson but tucker carlson held the unique position in the debate over the future of america. we have had a debate in america. there have been people on the trump right that turned the

backs on western democracy, on basic american freedoms, declared war against institutions that conservatives used to be the most strident defenders of the united states military the men and women in uniforl carlson told the followers that they were woke and the military would bring helicopters against people in afghanistan, taliban in afghanistan and come use them against americans. a sickening, sickening attack of the proud men epa women who protect our country. same thing about law enforcement personnel. same thing said about our college campuses which are again i'm critical of for years but this idea that they're completely bankrupt and nobody is learning there is

prepo preposterous people all over the world send the children here. and again, attacks on the intel community. there's a straight line. if you look there's a straight line and the support for autocrats or people with autocratic urges who despise western democracy and freedom, despise the rule of law, a free press and attacking it it's donald trump in the united states victor orban in hungary and vladimir putin in russia and those three. that's sort of i guess the line that goes straight across. tucker carlson in the opinion of me and people who actually have long been defenders of western

democracy on the wrong side of every one of those -- the debates around the leaders and seemed to embrace the autocrats and mock the institutions that uphold western democracy. >> that's absolutely right remember tucker's the guy that wept to budapest to hang out with orban and supportive of putin's position in the ukraine war which is that we have no business, the united states, to defend democracy there it is really business of russia. he is that -- that is absolutely -- that's tay peel of him to the maga base to make things simpler for themselves. democracy is complicated, messy,

diversity. we don't like that, these people who watch fox news and tucker appeals to that. also, the great replacement theory gin up the right and with racism still ahead on "morning joe," the fulton county district attorney has been investigating trump for alleged interference in the 2020 election and out with a new timeline to see a possible indictment. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be rhtig back. and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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the future starts now. we are going to find out this summer if former president donald trump will face charges in the fulton county investigation. fulton county district attorney willis said she will announce a decision on charging during the state supreme court fourth term

beginning july 11 and ends on september 1. so there's the timeline. if charged it would be the second criminal indictment of the former president trump is facing charges in manhattan on falsifying business rords. he has pleaded not guilty in that case and calls the georgia probe politically motivated. new timeline comes from a letter the district attorney to the fulton county sheriff asking the department to get ready for any potential response to the decision a spokesperson for the d.a.'s office declined to comment. >> claire mccaskill said yesterday justice delayed is justice denied why doesn't she start wait until the start of the olympics in paris in 2024?

this call was made on january the 2nd of 2021. we had a grand jury impanelled they came back with multiple suggestions for indictments. she continues to delay and again, what's the problem with that? they had all the evidence for a really long time secondly, the closer this comes to election season the more political it looks, the more politicized it will be again, i have absolutely no idea why this has not -- why this indictment hasn't been dropped a long time ago. it is one of the most serious of the charges against donald trump and it appears to be on the surface one of the easiest to prove. >> i, too, agree that i would rather see the case brought

sooner than later because i think it's not helpful to bring the cases too close to the silly season, the election season. it is not quite as simple a case as you have made it out to be. if it were just about the one phone call i would agree with you. and that phone call i think is praet damning evidence that raffensberger recorded about trump trying to coerce him the fake elect tors are a big issue and that we seen some papers recently that show that may be some of the fake electors are flipping on one another and a big development and worth her pursuing. >> gene, we had a grand jury in georgia. i don't know why they had a fake and real grand jury. seems bizarre.

they're suggesting indictments she doesn't have to follow that grand jury they have to impanel a grand jury seems like it's taken an awfully long time. i understand i understand you got to build the case but, my god, we are 27 months now i just don't understand the delay. >> yeah. it is a really weird system in georgia that they are using with the grand jury to look into all this and go through the evidence and then sort of make the recommendations and then bring in another grand jury presumably they don't have to go through as long a process with the new grand jury and they can get to a conclusion praet quickly so like everybody else i'm frustrated if it will happen let it happen and get on with it but i do take george's point

about the fake electors who may be flipping. remember when donald trump went on the rant about i hate this flipping, the flipping it may be happening in georgia and would make a much stronger case and you want a strong case if you charge former president trump. a look at the emerging 2024 campaign when "morning joe" comes right back ♪♪ allergies don't have to be scary. (screaming) defeat allergy headaches fast with new flonase headache and allergy relief! two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good!

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editor maggie mcgrath and huma abedine. great to have the team back together again maggie, this report by wells fargo, what did it find? >> this is striking. it found that the number of single women in the labor force increased by a factor of three over the last decade yet the pay gap for the women over the time not only persisted but increased by nearly 4% single women make about 92% what the male counterparts made down from 96% ten years ago this may not sound like gigantic numbers but there are huge implications for wealth building wells fargo also found that single women have 18% lower net worth than their male counterparts because single is defiened as folks who may be divorced or

separated or widowed or have some economic benefit from married, that is a bigger gap for never-married women. they have 29% lower wealth than their male counterparts, which is hugely concerning we know women are living longer than men. >> do they give a reason why this is happening? >> i talked to wells fargo senior economist sarah house, because i do think it's counterintuitive she pointed to three big fa factors. the first is caregiving. women do a disproportionate amount of unpaid caregiving in this country the second factor is the implicit bias about the value of women's work that can affect our pay. finally, occupational differences. gender differences and choice of field is the biggest driver of the gender pay gap there are fields like s.t.e.m. that are still male dominated.

women are only 28% of that workforce. those male dominated fields are often higher paying than fields that are female dominated, like education. >> you worked for many years with hillary clinton, who's always been a stronger proponent of closing the wage gap. is there anything more that can be done from a policy perspective? >> i think of the many forms of discrimination women have faced in this country, one of them is not being paid equally for equal work there are three things we should be doing first, updating and strengthening current laws that exist. it has been illegal since 1963 to not pay women the same amount as men and just last month congress introduced legislation that strengthened that 1963 law to ensure employers are held accountable and women have an

avenue for gender discrimination in the workplace the second thing is transparency women need to know what a job pays we know that women tend to under value themselves as it is. to go into a work space and understand what your colleagues are being paid and having those conversations is important the third thing is cultural. we need cultural change. not all business is done in the work space how many men do deals on the golf course or at ball games how women network, how we are together supporting each other, that's how we push the ball forward and ensure equal pay for women. >> equal pay was a key issue at the 30/50 summit we have a third coming up next march. connections, cross-cultural connections were made and these topics were addressed head on.

what we all found is there is strength in numbers. the incredible conversation with hillary clinton, billie jean king, gloria steinem was there a key take-away for you from that summit >> absolutely. you have three women who have made us loud and uncomfortable for decades about issues, including equal pay. the fact that we went into that conference with the u.n. report saying that at the current rate it will take 257 years for there to be gender equity around the world. it is urgent work. the fact that they're showing up for decades having these conversations and my biggest take-away was the importance of things like the summit we did. that was mentoring and networking you are taking a group of women who have figured it out and put them together with a group of

women trying to figure it out, sharing values of experience, of the confidence you know, the work is now more urgent than ever, which is why all of us there are so committed and we continue to be. >> it really is urgent maggie, at the summit we had the honorees from the forbes 50 over 50 list with know your value in attendance right now we're seeing dominations for our next class of women who are proving that success has absolutely no age limit. there's a long runway. tell us how nominations are going. what do people need to know? >> there's a shorter runway to get your nomination in our deadline is june 1st as i tell people, sooner is better than later. as we are combing through the nominations, we are looking for stories of women born in 1972 or earlier who are stepping into their power in their 50s, 60s,

70s and 80s. we're not just looking for people who might have started a company at 30 and have been doing the same thing for the next 30 years. we want to see people who maybe started something new at 64 and took it public a few years later, who broke a glass ceiling by becoming a first in her industry we are looking across all sectors of work. i mentioned s.t.e.m. and education earlier, but arts and math and music and anything you can think of above all, i want to make this very clear we don't repeat people on this list once you're on the list, you're always a part of the community we're looking for a whole new class of women, which means if you didn't make the list in 2021 or 2022, now is your chance to try again. tell us what's new tell us how your business as grown and you have a really good shot of making it this year. >> if you were rejected because you're 49 and not 50 yet, you can try again now that you're

50 maggie mcgrath, huma abedin, thank you so much for being on to get more details about our next 50 over 50 list or to submit a nomination head over to forbes dotcom or know your value dotcom. next, more on the shakeup at fox news what tucker carlson leaves behind as he is shown the door plus, while donald trump could face new criminal charges in georgia this summer, the trial of a separate civil lawsuit against the former president kicks off in new york city today we'll have the details straight ahead. my active psoriatic arthritis can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin

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coast. we've been up and running for three hours. jonathan lemire and mike barnicle are still with us for the fourth hour. >> i got to ask. so, mike, i was doing this special last night when i started the special on -- >> it was very good. >> thank you so much, sweetie. when i started this special on the clintons, which we played some of. it was just incredible what they did there. the red sox were ahead 4-1 when i got off the set, they were behind 5-4. what in the world happened >> well, what happened is, they lost the game, obviously >> thanks, mike. >> they missed a couple of critical situations at bat the relief pitching was not great. the red sox are the red sox, joe. this is the way it's going to be for the rest of the year

the red sox are basically maybe a .500 team. that's the reality of it they could get better as the season goes along, but we'll see. >> can i say, jonathan lemire, though, they are a fun last place team it is mr. toad's wild ride is that still a ride have they taken that one out it is up and down and up and down and i mean this. last place, yes, but they're a lot of fun to watch. >> you and i are rarely serious about the red sox, but this team is chris sale was not great >> why did they make him ride a bike to the mound? >> yeah. he fell off halfway there. but he, like the red sox, feels like sort of a .500 pitcher last night. this team has heart.

they've had a bunch of comebacks all right. >> i don't think they're a lot of fun to watch. they have a $230 million payroll. >> they're deeply flawed and they certainly have misused their resources. but at least this team has some fight. i appreciate that. i think alex cora is getting the most out of it he can. >> willie, i guess what do i know i watchi ishtar and heaven's gat once a week. but the sox are a lot of fun to watch. >> it's a shocking number at the top. 20-3 that shouldn't happen. the rays are 20-3. you have to go back to now the late 1800s to the white stockings. >> who, mind you, are not the precursor to the white sox they're the precursor to the cubs. >> you have to go back that far to find a start.

they're unbelievable they hit, they field, they pitch. they're a great team it's fun, if you look at the top of the standings in the big leagues, minnesota is in first place, texas rangers in first place. how about pittsburgh the pirates are in first place and the arizona diamondbacks for now are in first place in a very crowded nl west. fun season. >> mike, how loaded are the padres my lord. xander is having a wonderful year there. >> that's right. [ laughter ] >> mike is down today. >> xander bogaerts everybody loves him and they're going to love him in san diego he's off to a terrific start he's not playing shortstop for the red sox, which is where he ought to be.

>> they got rid of babe ruth the over day too can you believe that president joe biden is officially running for reelection he announced his 2024 plans in a new video this morning exactly four years to the day after he j jumped into the 2020 race. kristin welker has the latest. >> reporter: this morning, it's official, president biden unveiling his reelection campaign with a new video. >> this is not a time to be complacent that's why i'm running for reelection. >> reporter: the president urging voters to help, quote, finish this job. >> when i ran for president four years ago, i said we were in a battle for the soul of america, and we still are. >> reporter: in the video, which prominently features his vice president kamala harris, mr. biden also making it clear he plans to carry out his attacks

against so-called maga republicans into the 2024 campaign, taking aim at the gop over cutting taxes, voting, abortion and lgbtq rights. >> around the country, maga extremists are lining up to take on those bedrock freedoms. >> reporter: donald trump leads the gop field, but the president is facing a skeptical public his approval rating is underwater, with many citing the 80-year-old president's age as a major reason why something we asked him about following the midterm elections. >> how does that factor into your final decision about whether or not to run for reelection >> it doesn't. >> what's your message to them >> watch me. >> reporter: overnight, former president trump accusing mr. biden of a calamitous and failed presidency our poll shows 6 in 10 americans are opposed to mr. trump making another white house bid. support for one of his potential

rivals florida governor ron desantis slipping in recent months, desantis on a trade mission in japan, asked about that decline. >> i'm not a candidate, so we'll see if and when that changes >> smooth as silk, baby. he's smooth as silk. he's the natural he's like robert redford in the natural. smooth swing to the upper deck in right field >> no, no. >> you're trying to console poor mike about the red sox you go, well, least the games are short. [ laughter ] >> god bless the pitch clock red sox are gonna be fine. so, mike, let's talk about the arc of american history.

i think probably the most tumultuous and four of the most dangerous years since joe biden announced that he was running, again, because of charlottesville, he felt the duty, he felt the need to come in and knew that after charlottesville there had to be a push back against the authoritarianism, the racism, the hatred of donald trump where are we four years later? we've seen, of course, fox news pay $800 million for lies. we've seen people that stormed the capitol on january 6th sitting in jail for years now. we've seen justice come to most everybody but donald trump perhaps that justice will be delayed, but it will not be

justice denied where are we as a nation four years later after his first announcement for president >> i think jonathan would bear me out on this, people around the president, people who work with him each and every day know that when he gets the overnight intelligence reports, when he gets his briefing at 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning, the growth of white nationalism in this country really bothers him it's right up there at the top of the screen in terms of the president's daily briefings. the strength of potential authoritarianism in so many republican candidates so far really concern him it's not nostalgia that worries him. it's that he thinks this country is in peril. all of this, the troubles of

this country, i think his basic aim would be to calm this country down, not resort to something 1950s "father knows best" tv programs, but just to restore some sense of normalcy to this country and talk about the american family again, talk about families in peril economically, families that worry about their children's education. those are the things that drive joseph r. biden still and forever. >> he's implicitly saying i'm here to push back against the extremism. you've watched over the last seven or eight years and some of the themes that worked for democrats in the 2022 midterm elections, which is to say protecting abortion access, pushing back on guns given the mass shootings we seem to see almost every day in this country and pushing back against the election denialism that so many republicans leaned into in 2022.

it's that buffer against the things that worry a lot of people in this country. >> it's this idea that the republican party is the party of extremism now and they're out of step with the american people on issues like abortion, on guns. also, in this ad, one of the images that struck me was a stack of books, books that have been banned in florida and other states by republican governors and republican state legislatures, which is another culture war issue that this white house says they're going to take on there was some back and forth as to where to whether he would do this. if donald trump or somebody like him were not looming, maybe he wouldn't seek a second term. the belief that president biden is the democrat best suited to beat him, there was no choice. >> clear from that video and from talking to congressman jim

clyburn on this show who is working with the white house on this campaign that vice president harris will figure prominently in this 2024 campaign. we turn now to yesterday's stunning announcement from fox news, the network cutting ties with right-wing host tucker carlson amid allegations of sexism and bigotry within his staff. according to the "los angeles times," whichcited sources familiar with the situation, quote, carlson's exit is related to the discrimination lawsuit filed by abby grossberg, the producer for the network justin wells, his producer, as also been terminated the l.a. times also reported that rupert murdoch was concerned about carlson's coverage of the january 6th attack on the capitol. nbc news has reached out to tucker for comment and has not

yet heard back. >> we've been saying right-wing host a good bit this morning i take issue with that i mean, ronald reagan was called a right-wing politician, margaret thatcher, william f. buckley, barry goldwater, russell kirk this is something far more toxic. there's a far more authoritarian strain here, mixed in with, obviously, a lot of extreme far-right positions. but this is trumpism, authoritarianism. >> or many would call it fascism. that's where tucker took his show there were so many problems, we could spend the next hour listing the concerns that he brought to the table for our democracy and for the people who trusted him to be given facts as opposed to fiction. >> let's bring in "new york

times" reporters nick confisori and jeremy peters. we saw, jeremy, with tucker and other fox news hosts, they would deliberately lie to their audience night after night after night. then they would go off the air and say how disgusted they were with some of the things they were saying, what their guests were saying, but they kept doing it. >> i think your point, joe, about the term "right wing" and how we apply it today is a perfect one to underscore what tucker carlson and trump and their i'd dealogical allies have done to the discourse. they're pushed extreme hard right stuff into the mainstream of the american party.

>> false things. >> yes >> they have said things and i can only say this because we've seen the discovery, things they knew were lies there was always this debate i knew tucker when he was at ms. i knew tucker for a while and i liked him. i was nice to him. he was nice to me. we had good conversations. rachel maddow the same so people would always ask willie and me, does he really believe all of that stuff? you just say, i don't know then i saw the dominion discovery and realized, no, this was all an act it was all a show. he was the one that said harsher things about donald trump than most guests that came on the show. >> than you even, right? what he's revealed himself to be through this discovery is a political performance artist, someone playing to the audience, somebody who his producer at one

point says to him, hey, we didn't talk about voter fraud last night and our audience noticed and they were kind of ticked off by that and he says, yeah, i guess we should have, but i just hate this stuff, but he didn't say stuff. that shows you the extent to which at fox news from the hosts up to the highest levels of the company, there is an overriding concern about maxmization of ratings and profit when their audience didn't want to hear the truth that they found inconvenient and uncomfortable, then many hosts and producers at the network said, all right, we have to prevent them from switching the channel to newsmax, so let's give them more of what they want. >> i'm glad you brought up newsmax. willie, this has all been brought into the sharpest of

relief by what happened between election day and the end of january, where we all saw fox viewers leave in record numbers and go over to newsmax, because fox news actually reported arizona right before anybody else they ended up having the call for president biden to win the entire election, but were afraid to call that you actually had tucker carlson saying that people that went on the air and told the truth should be fired. you also had, of course, in this discovery him attacking the front office at fox news, saying they were destroying their credibility, weirdly enough, by having people on fox telling the truth that this election denialism was pure bunk, something again, that their own texts revealed so very sharp relief about why they did this.

i guess that's the real crux of their problem in these lawsuits. >> the audience was demanding to hear more about the conspiracy theories the audience wanted that to be true fox made a business decision to feed that back to them as you say, that contrasts with some of the e-mails and texts we've seen in that discovery where some of the hosts were saying, we're almost rid of donald trump, this is almost over, let's just get to inauguration day, all while going out and saying the election was stolen. jeremy, let's hear why fox made this decision, which by all accounts surprised tucker yesterday when he got the phone call number one show, popular host, strong following, makes the network a lot of money what was the final straw ultimately >> we're still reporting that out. none of the reporting i've seen so far, including our own, really captures the precipitating event.

i'll put it this way fox news doesn't just, as you say, fire their most popular prime time host, somebody who generates a lot of revenue for the network, for reasons that we already know everything that's come out in this discovery about tucker carlson has been really damaging it reveals him to be a complete hypocrite. it reveals him to be disdainful of the president he pretended to be a champion of to look at fox's history, the last time they've dismissed people as high profile as tucker, roger ailes in 2016, bill o'reilly in 2017. that was grievous sexual misconduct i think you have to imagine something on the magnitude of that we're still reporting, but it's got to be big. >> nick, you wrote some defining

pieces about tucker carlson last year to quote, mr. carlson has constructed what may be the most racist show in the history of cable news and also by some measures the most successful so fox news was willing to put up with all of that because he made them money. where does that energy now go, sort of that darkness that he tapped into, that racism that he tapped into? that audience, are they going to stay with him? do they stay with fox news they're such a powerful political force in the republican party of 2023. >> the trump era sort of made carlson by providing a stage for views he had already arrived at about immigration and culture that would soon become mainstream views in conservative circles. fox as an institution can hold that audience with something related or a bit different they're really good at holding their audience it's what they do best

tucker, i imagine if he's allowed to contractually, he will go and start his own thing. he definitely has an audience. i think in this moment with those forces still raging within the conservative voting world, there will be an appetite for somebody who will give voice to that in the way he is so good at doing. he knew how to grab onto the emotional core of trumpism, which was panic overthe change demographics of the country and resentment about things changing and make it the focus of the show, even though he didn't like trump personally. >> tucker's gone he's been fired. the audience is still there sitting with the infection, the virus that people like tucker, principally tucker incorrected

injected into a massive audience of 3 million people. what happens to the audience what happens to their loyalty to the ideology as opposed to their favorability towards tucker? >> what fox is really good at is brand loyalty. people tune into the network for more than just the person they see on the screen. it's a relationship with the whole channel and the ideas they see reflected there. i don't know if they will hold onto every carlson viewer who cares the most about his rants about gypsies and black lives matter protesters being criminals. i'm not sure you can always find a little bit of that on fox and other places on the network i think carlson was just the best at expressing it because he was so good at propounding a consistent world view and telling a story every night that was seamless i think if you want the hard core stuff, you will probably have to go elsewhere what is evident is that what

tucker was best at in conservative media is not limited to fox you can find it on the federalist and breitbart >> nick brings up a great point. in red state america especially, people turn on fox in the morning, it's on throughout the day, it's on in prime time and whoever fills that 8:00 spot, they will find somebody that the audience will grow connected to like they grew connected to tucker. we've seen it happen time and time again roger ailes built this machine, and it's plug and play you plug a host in and -- . >> it's just a different dynamic they will exist under. >> i expect we will see some

changes on the margins under roger ailes, there were guardrails, there were things that were said on the air that were deeply offensive to people, but there were still guardrails. when glenn beck, for instance, said president obama was a racist who hated all white people that caused roger ailes to say this can't continue on the network and pushed glenn beck out. the question is, does lachlan murdoch, suzanne scott, rupert murdoch, do they put some guardrails up that were completely taken off during the tucker era he was running the network he could do whatever he wanted to do. actually, those people were in fear of him. they lived in fear of him until

this week. i think there may be some changes after an $800 million verdict. you have a $2.7 billion verdict o out, settlement. you have the producer's lawsuit that's going to be really difficult for fox. there are a lot of things going on i'm sure the board and shareholders are going, let's reel it in you can be a conservative network. we don't need all the extra. >> thank you both. i'm sure we'll see you both again soon. coming up on "morning joe," jury selection is about to get under way for the civil lawsuit accusing donald trump of rape. we'll get legal analysis in that case. plus, there's a new timeline for the next possible indictment of the former president.

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he wanted james. he gets him. james drives james is fouled! and-one! >> lebron james with the clutch basket and the foul over, yes, dylan brooks of the grizzlies, who you'll remember dismissed lebron as old after game 2 last week lebron james fuelled the lakers to a win over the grizzlies and now a commanding 3-1 lead in the first round western conference series the 38-year-old james also grabbed a career playoff high 20 rebounds, went for 22 and 20 to become the oldest nba player with a 20-point, 20-rebound game lakers can close out the grizzlies tomorrow night in

memphis. i think just about everyone saw this when dylan brooks made those comments that lebron is old and he doesn't have my respect. lebron just nodded and said, watch. >> that's why you don't tug on superman's cape. it's lebron james. he took care of business they've got a 3-1 series lead. the grizzlies' season is about to end it will be interesting who they play next, because the kings/warriors has been a classic series. >> just don't tug on lebron's cape it's just a bad idea for all the lakers' struggles this year you knew with lebron they were going to be around for the playoffs >> that's what you were saying last night. >> i was all over it i didn't want to take away from your special and all. >> you knew this was going to happen with the lakers. >> i was sitting there trying to

figure out a way to say it while saying what a great job you did. >> that's very sweet of you. we're going to know this summer if donald trump will face charges in the georgia investigation into possible election interference. fulton county district attorney fani willis said she will announce a decision on charging during the state's superior court's fourth term which begins on july 11th and ends september 1st. trump has called the georgia probe politically motivated. meanwhile, jury selection in the lawsuit brought by a woman who has accused donald trump of raping her is set to begin in new york city. e. jean carroll said trump sexual assaulted her in the dressing room of a department store in the '90s. trump says the alleged incident

never happened . >> let's bring in district attorney for palm beach county, dave aronberg. >> good morning, joe and mika. this is not a criminal case. this is a civil matter you only need to prove it by a preponderance of the evidence. the reason why it's not a criminal case is because e. jean carroll did not report this incident until 2019, long after the incident allegedly occurred in the mid '90s. so the criminal statute of limitations has expired. what i'm looking for is the question of will the jury believe e. jean carroll. i think she provides a very credible testimony, but she'll be under a withering cross examination. she has two witnesses back at the time who she told about this incident they will be allowed to testify. trump himself will not testify

in fact, he probably won't even show up. this is not going to be a he said/she said. he won't even be there lawyers know that ghosting a jury is never a good idea. his lawyers tried to ask the judge to give an instruction to the jury explaining why trump wasn't there the judge wasn't buying it so his absence will loom large, as will the "access hollywood" tape that's coming in too that may be the only time the jury hears the voice of the former president, and it won't be in a positive way. >> can you explain to me the timing of the possible georgia indictment this is something we've known about for 28 months now, since we first heard that tape this seems to drag on and on they had a grand jury who came back, recommended multiple indictments, according to media

reports, and just more delays, more delays, more delays to a point now where we're talking about a time frame that plays right into donald trump's hands politically. he can say this is a political prosecution because i'm in the middle of a presidential campaign now, doing it then instead of doing it six months ago. what's taken so long >> joe, i don't know what your definition of imminent is, but i think imminent means it's going to happen soon when the d.a. there, my counterpart fani willis, said the indictment would be imminent, she, i guess, meant the summer time. this was back in january now we're expecting a summer indictment trump is going to be indicted in georgia. she came out and said she needs to prepare law enforcement for heightened security and preparedness is that for rudy giuliani? no that's for donald trump. in her defense, there are legitimate reasons for the delay. we know that additional witnesses have come forward to

ask for a cooperation deal that's good news for prosecutors, bad news for donald trump. also, it spells trouble for some of the maga lawyers. the district attorney sought to remove the lawyer accepting ten of the republican false electors because apparently the lawyer did not communicate the immunity offer from the prosecutors to her clients. so these extralegal actions take extra time ultimately it likely leads to one place for some of these defendants that's handcuffs and orange jumpsuits. >> state attorney for palm beach county dave aronberg, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," a fresh look at what our next guest calls the most important historical figure that no one knows about. plus, the drama surrounding the hit series "yellowstone" and one of its biggest stars "morning joe" will be right

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governor dutton has violated state law. >> running a pipeline beneath the drinking water of an already strained and impoverished community may be progress for the owners of the pipeline or whatever runs through the pipeline or for those receiving it, but it could lead to disastrous effects to the land and the people this pipeline runs beneath, which is not progress at all. >> and it is for those people and for the future of montana. >> and for that reason, as governor of montana, i cannot support that endeavor and will use the full weight of my office to prevent it from happening. >> but the attorney general's office under article 5 and section 13 of the state constitution is requesting a senate tribunal seeking impeachment. >> that was the thrilling end of the first half of season 5 of the hit series "yellowstone". >> if you don't watch it, that's

son trying to impeach father, who's the governor. >> with rumors swirling that production on the second half of that season has yet to even begin, many fans are wondering if america's most popular tv show is in trouble that's not all according to fox, anonymous sources recently told the new york post and the daily mail that paramount's network hit, which was originally intended for six seasons will likely end at season 5 due to an ongoing feud between the creator taylor sheridan and star kevin costner. >> let's bring in founding partner at the media venture pock, matthew belemy. say it ain't so. we want to see the duttons fish

finish this story out. is it going to happen? >> probably not or at least not as originally intended there is a standoff. kevin costner wants to do other things he's making these western movies called horizon he's shooting the second one right now. he doesn't want to spend very much time on the "yellowstone" set. he came back and said for the second half of season 5, i'm only going to give you a very small window of time that's a really difficult thing for them to shoot around, because most of the scenes are outdoors, there's a lot of horse riding, it's a very elaborate production when kevin costner says he can only give you a week or two of his time, they can't really create a meaningful arc. everything i'm told is that taylor sheridan is ready to move

on and just waiting to figure out how he's going to write kevin costner off the show. >> they could do what "succ "succession" did. >> matthew, you've discussed the split between kevin costner and taylor sheridan. has this been a long time coming between these two? >> you know, they've never totally gotten along everything i've heard is that it's been professional, but kevin costner is a filmmaker himself and he's tried to make input on the show and basically has been told you're an actor on this one, let me be the creator. that's fine. he is paid very well he's set to make about $20 million on this season and potentially next season of the show if he comes back.

but this is a guy that's had a long career. he wants respect and he's got other things he wants to do. i think "yellowstone" will continue, whether it's with matthew mcconaughey in this show or another show, but this season will likely be the last. >> taylor sheridan is the creator, show runner and principal writer in "yellowstone." he's also got two or three other programs on air. how much is this on him? is he overextended is he too much into being taylor sheridan, this is my line, you're not going to fool with the line how much of it is on him >> that's certainly the line that the costner camp is putting out there, if you read some of the media coverage it's not just two or three shows. there are up to a dozen shows that taylor sheridan has in

development, both on the air and planned for the next couple years, including all of the yellowstone prequels he did 1883, 1923. they're planning on doing yellowstone every other decade going up to the present. he's got tulsa king with sylvester stallone and a bunch of other projects coming out there are critiques that perhaps he is overextended but yellowstone is his baby. he has prioritized that over all the other stuff. he just doesn't know right now whether the star of the show is going to be on the show, so he can't finish writing the season. >> i guess we're just going to have to wait and see, but it sounds like it's not going to happen. >> you really want to see what beth does. >> keep in mind these things tend to work out when large amounts of money are involved

and they could drive up a brinks truck to costner's house and say here's some more money, how about you give us a little bit more time. >> we'll see how that works there. still ahead on "morning joe," when it comes to the most influential u.s. presidents, our next guest says don't sleep on john quincy adams. we'll get more insight on what makes the country's sixth commander in chief so special, next on "morning joe." moving forward with node- positive breast cancer is overwhelming. but i never just found my way; i made it. and did all i could to prevent recurrence. verzenio reduces the risk of recurrence of hr-positive, her2-negative, node-positive, early breast cancer with a high chance of returning, as determined by your doctor when added to hormone therapy. hormone therapy works outside the cell... while verzenio works inside to help stop the growth of cancer cells. diarrhea is common, may be severe,

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his album "cka"calypso." he put up the money for the student nonviolent coordinating committee. he backed so many civil rights causes with his voice, his presence, his money. and did the march on washington and many other pivotal moments in the civil rights movement in this country his representative told "the new york times," the great harry belafonte has died at the age of 96 mike, this is a guy who lived on the upper west side. if you were lucky enough to be on the fairway at 74th and broadway, you might see harry belafonte in the produce aisle or checking out with you >> born in harlem. still an iconic figure at 94, 9

a 96 and the singing in vegas very early on a bit of a, you know, some movie roles. it was his work of civil rights across decades of work in civil rights always articulating the need for equality in this country harry belafonte, a great american life. >> amen to that. we can confirm that harry belafonte has died at the age of 96 >> he was great star as willie and al said.

you hear how his spirit soars. and he was with martin luther king and so supportive at the time when it cost a lot to do the things he did. a put it on the line, like he did. america owes him a great debt. >> 100%. we turn to the most historical figure that no one knows about. that's how our next guest describes john quincy adams. the new podcast, founding son, john quincy's america, chronicles the story how the sixth president went from the president of the united states, to an extraordinary ex-p ex-president it also details the challenges he faces when in the white house. >> inside the uprises, the legal battles and brinksmanship that

threatened to take the union >> the grasping ambition, swallowing all in its ever devouring maw. >> as the nation reckons its history, don't sleep on john quincy albums. he held the union together across two al eras and two visions for america. >> bob crawford. he's bassist for the grammy-nominated folk rock band. it's great to have you on the show what else do we not know about john quincy adams? >> we probably don't know he served with washington and lincoln. washington aposted him to his first diplomatic post. and served with lincoln in congress we probably don't know he's the only president to serve in the

house of representatives he had a failed one-term presidency, elected 200 years ago, in 1824 and you're not going to believe this cries of a stolen election and conspiracy theory about a deep state corrupt bargaining between him and henry clay, whom he would appoint as secretary of state. most importantly, during his 17 years of congress, he brought slavery into the american consciousness. he brought it out two the shadows. they tried to expel him and censure him. they passed a rule called the gag rule but adams was so adept at the rules of the house, that he found all kinds of sneaky ways to get it in

>> tell us about that journey from president to back to the house of representatives that's unthinkable to a modern observer tell us why john quinnly adams did that >> he was embarrassed by his loss he's the son of john and abigail adams. one thing they taught him was public service he witnesses by the age of 7, the battle of bunker hill. he sees the flash of the canons. and he's groomed to be president. he's monroe's secretary of state. he negotiates the prtreaty of gent, to end the war of 1812 he's a minority president. his election was decided in the house of representatives he was never seen as being

legit. in 1828, he came up against a populist leader named andrew jackson. he loses the presidency after the inauguration his son, george washington adams dies on his way to washington. probably a suicide he falls off the back of a steamer ship called the ben franklin and dies. he's depressed and crushed a couple of local guys come to his house one day in 1830 and they say, we think you should stand for the house of representatives. he agrees. he doesn't tell his wife she reads about it in the newspapers and he gets elected by almost a complete blowout he goes into the house and he embraces that. his son looks as it as a taking a step down. his wife looks as he's taking a step down. how can a president go into the

house of representatives adams, always a public servant that's where he made his mark on american history >> one of the fascinating stories that you'll find in the podcast called founding son. john quincy's america. it's available where you get podcasts bob crawford, thank you so much. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now it's 10:00 eastern i'm ana cabrera. we begin with breaking news. this morning, president biden made it official >> the question we're facing is whether in the years ahead, we have more freedom or less freedom. more rights or fewer i know what i want and i think you do, too. this is not a be a time to be complacent