carol took the stand in manhattan and describes how she says donald trump raped her in a department store dressing room in the spring of 1996. she says donald trump shut the door and shoved her against the wall she says she was laughing at first because they had been joking she says she pushed him, but he thrust her back against the wall, banging her head she says she didn't want to make him angry. she says he put his shoulder into her, his whole weight, and held her against the wall. she says he leaned down and pulled down her tights and then she says he raped her. she says she eventually got her knee up and pushed him off and she ran out of the room and the store. she says she called a friend and told her what happened but she did not go to the police she says she thought the whole thing was her fault because she had been laughing and had been having a great time. donald trump says none of that happened he says he does not carol.

i've never met this person in my life, he said, in 2019 after carol told the story in her book she's not by type, he added a few months later in an interview with the hill. today, during carol's testimony, he called the case a made-up scam he said her lawyer is a political operative and that carol should have produced the dress she was wearing that day joining me now from outside the u.s. district court in new york city is nbc news correspondent ron allen. so ron, some very heavy testimony today. what else did carol say, and how was she -- how was she pushed back how did donald trump's lawyers push back against her testimony? >> reporter: they're going to zero in based on their opening statement on some things that they say are just unbelievable for example, she could not tell the jury exactly when this incident, this alleged incident

happened she says it was probably sometime in the spring of 1996, but she has said she doesn't know the exact month, the exact date when this happened. she also says that when they went traveled the escalators to the 6th floor. there's not been a witness who saw them in the store, who saw them afterwards, who heard her scream or anything to that effect there's that the trump side is also going to try to insist that this is all politically motivated that she's a democrat that here lawyers are operatives, that this is the reason why she is doing this along with, of course, trying to make money she's an author. she's a writer she has a book and that's when she made these allegations, they will point out, after the book came out, when she decided to write a book in 2017, 2019, so many years

after the alleged incident so that's how they're going to try to take her story apart. the bottom line is that she made a very emotional witness on the stand this morning telling in very vivid detail what she says happened and even though she doesn't remember some of the other issues her attorneys have pointed out and insisted that she does remember exactly what happened when donald trump allegedly raped her. >> donald trump wants the dress to be part of the evidence what has a judge said about dna in this case >> reporter: well, it's interesting because for a long time, the trump side has tried to not have dna be a part of this carol's side wanted to put the dress into evidence, wanted a dna sample from trump, and he has not done that for several years. which is spinteresting that he would mention that in that post on truth social. the judge said that he was getting into perhaps an opening

a legal can of worms to paraphrase what the judge said by doing that. the judge seemed to be objecting to the tone and tenor of these statements that president trump, former president trump has been making, calling this a witch hunt, a hoax, so on and so forth. suggesting perhaps that he could be opening himself up to more claims of defamation because of the things he is saying about carol, about her lawyers, about the entire case. the judge, as you know, is very concerned about the overall climate this is happening in, and he's concerned about threats and retaliation directed at the jury that's why they are anonymous, which is a very unusual step for a judge to take in any case. so there's that as well. carol is on the stand again this afternoon. we may get to cross-examination, but, again, she is laying out her case in vivid, explicit and emotional terms. >> ron allen, thank you very much, and joining me now is former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance, and msnbc legal analyst, lisa reuben

i'm going to begin with you, you have been in the courtroom listening to this testimony. one of the things i want to ask you about, donald trump saying he never met carol we have some contrary testimony, sworn testimony from donald trump about that, right? isn't there a photo of e. jean car carol together, and didn't donald trump mistake that person in the photo of his former wife, marla maples you can put that on the screen there's the photo. >> and that photo was shown yesterday and carol's lawyers opening statement, and they made clear to the jury that when donald trump said in the allegedly defamatory statement, she's not my type, he was wrong on two accounts, a, he had met her before, as proven by the photograph, but more importantly at his deposition, as you mentioned, when shown that photo, he testified under oath, that's my wife, yeah, it's marla, meaning marla maples, having already testified that marla maples was exactly his type, and sean ycrowley used tha

to devastating effect, i thought in her opening statement yesterday. >> and you can see that is zeroed in part of the image where you see e. jean carol speaking, it appears, to donald trump and the striking resemblance that she has to marla maples lisa, how much is this piece of evidence like this going to matter when it is a he said/she said e. jean carol is making a lot of allegations here, serious allegations and donald trump is flat out denying them. there are no witnesses to this that we have heard of so far at least? >> reporter: you're right, there are no witnesses to the actual event, but much like a number of cases in the me too movement, one of the things the plaintiff has going for them is e. jean carol did tell two of her friends in realtime about the incident between her and donald trump, she told her friend lisa burnback, and then a couple of

days later told her friend carol martin, and at martin's home, they discussed the events, and martin and burnback are expected to testify in the trial. the way they should think about it is that carroll, martin and burnback are in a scheme together to destroy donald trump, motivated by money, politics, and a shared desire for attention. e. jean carroll does have folks she told in realtime >> so you heard joyce talk about how donald trump's lawyers are going to poke holes in her testimony, discredit her here, what will you be watching for when the redirect happens, and as this case unfolds >> right, so it's important to say, we don't get to watch the

testimony. we're reading from people who are live streaming, why we don't have cameras in live courts is an important one for another day. 'scivil case, not a criminal case, but it mirrors the kinds of problems that routinely come up in rape cases. by the very nature of the crime, the typical rape occurs in private. there are not external witnesses who can talk about it. it becomes a he said, she said, and in this case, very interestingly it's going to be a she said because donald trump's lawyers indicate he does not plan to testify. much of this will come down to whether or not the jury believes that carroll is credible, and you know, as we've discussed, there are gaps in her story. and trump's lawyers will certainly try to say that this is evidence that she is fabricated it. but when you look at this kind of evidence, if she were going

to fabricate a story, she would be much more clear about the details. she wouldn't be acknowledging at failure of memory about the precise date and so as the evidence comes in and the lawyers have the opportunity to argue it to the jury, this is very consistent with the kind of evidence that you see used successfully in criminal cases of this nature >> donald trump's not testifying on the stand, but he was deposed. how much will that deposition play, joyce. >> it's a big deal to have a deposition on video tape that you can play to a jury, especially when you have these sorts of misstep, like the one you identified trump, central to the defamation are his statements that carroll is not his type. and you have this testimony where robbie kaplan, the lawyer, pulls out a photo of e. jean carroll, and he misidentifies it as his wife marla maple. that will be a big moment in the trial when the jury gets to hear

the deposition as a legal team, youon play depositions unless you think they help your side. it's important to note that carroll's lawyers are satisfied with relying on the video taped deposition they don't feel the need, they have said in pleadings to have the former president testify expect those video tapes to be very compelling. >> joyce and lisa, ladies, thank you very much, again, a very heavy day in the defamation suit against donald trump by e. jean carroll. does kevin mccarthy have the votes? it seems like he does, what concessions he made to keep from president biden's inflation reduction act in place. plus, what hunter biden's legal team is doing at the justice department today we've got the details. and the new law bipartisan lawmakers are proposing to stop kids from using social media we're back in 60 seconds what will you do? will you make something better?

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on the house floor right now, lawmakers are debating speaker mccarthy's proposal to lift the debt ceiling. mccarthy is planning on holding a vote this afternoon and as we get closer to roll call, it appears that he does have the votes. south carolina congresswoman nancy mace has just said she's now a yes, and so has new york republican george santos in the past couple of minutes joining me now is nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake, and msnbc political contributor, jake sherman yesterday, you told us this bill would not hit the floor unless speaker mccarthy had the votes it appears they're confident they've got them. >> reporter: i just talked to the majority leader steve scalise as he was walking to the floor. he told me when the two hours are up, they would make the bill today. he told me i would make my dinner reservation if i had one. they are confident they have moved enough votes in their direction. they don't need to move all of

them they have the rule, the vote for the vote p passed with every republican voting for it. democratic absences, which means republicans can afford to let three or four members vote no, go for a walk and have the bill passed they are feeling good about it as i stand here right now. >> talk to me about the concessions made in the late night meeting last night, and what it means for biden's inflation act. >> say it to me, santos, katy. george santos is a yes on this bill listen, here's a few things to note number one, this bill initially repealed the number of biofuel tax credits in the inflation reduction act. that really raised the ire of iowa republicans and minnesota republicans. those were mostly stripped and they blunted the impact of a bunch of them. those were the two main provisions they gutted a bunch of money from the inflation reduction act

for things like expanded sidewalks for urban areas, environmental impact stuff for buildings. listen, katy, let's be completely clear here. this bill stands zero chance of becoming law the entire game here is to try to give mccarthy, kevin mccarthy, the speaker, some leverage does it do that? we have no idea. they just want to get something across the floor to say we've done our job, now it's time for the president and the senate to negotiate. they say they aren't negotiating. we're turning this chapter over, and by the way, i'm a little bit more bearish than darren on the votes. i do think they have them. i think it's going to be very close, and i think it's going to take arm twisting on the floor, in the 4:45 to 5:15 time frame i agree with garrett, this would not hit the floor unless they had a reasonable chance to get this through i want to be abundantly clear.

we have no idea how the debt ceiling will be raised this is just a show, just like game he think, for example, this is not reality so the next two months are going to be white knuckle and there's no way around it. >> a show i'm desperate to see in my lifetime i'm not desperate to see a show on the debt limit. i know the democrats said they're not negotiating on this. and the president is not negotiating on this. have you heard anything differently behind the scenes about what they might have wiggle room on, might meet republicans on >> reporter: not especially. this is a game of political hot potato, and you've got house republicans who are now able to toss the potato into the laps of senate democrats and the white house and say, look, we have done something here. it's your move what are you going to negotiate on i have been talking to some of these republicans, what about from now if this is an opening nancy, where does it go from here they feel like if they clear 218

votes later today, and to jake's point, every vote in the house is going to be close on anything of substance, if they do clear it, then it's up to the white house to come up with something they might give on i can tell you one issue they don't want to give on. it's on those work requirements that were stiffened up as part of the deal to get the bill on the floor. republicans see that as kind of a 1990s bill clinton negotiating with newt gingrich they're quite proud of could they get joe biden to the table, i doubt it. that's a red line, all of a sudden this becomes more complex as we head into the next couple of weeks and months. >> when we think about this, the next couple of weeks over the summer whenever the negotiation happens and a vote over the debt ceiling eventually comes to the house and senate floor if that happens, who knows, we're going to be mid summer is it going to end up being that speaker mccarthy is going to have no choice but to look across the aisle to democrats? is there any way that any sort

of negotiation on this issue can possibly yield enough republicans in the house to let him do it alone? >> no chance there's no chance. and i don't mean to cut in on garrett. there's no chance. any final compromise will be a bipartisan compromise, and mccarthy wants three things, if you read between the lines based on my reporting, these work requirements, which as garrett notes are probably not going to happen he wants a spending freeze and spending cuts. i would say like maybe we'll have to see if that ever happens. the white house says they're not negotiating, we'll see if that turns up, and he wants permitting reform, which is something that democrats and republicans got somewhat close on last congress, that is to speed up the process by which energy projects and other projects are approved by the government the president has been broadly supportive of that when joe manchin had that on his dance card we'll have to see if we can do

that listen, the first thing is the white house says they're not negotiating, that is the first hurdle here. the house is not going to pass a clean debt ceiling anytime soon, and possibly ever. we're going to go in june, july, august, at some point in the three months, we're going to go -- we're going to be in a crisis mode. i'll be honest with you, there's no real way to know how they get out of this. >> let's hope for your sake, garrett, it doesn't happen the last week of july or the first week of august i know you've got other plans those weeks. garrett is rolling his eyes, he knows. garrett, thank you very much i meant jake, sorry, jake, you've got plans thank you very much. coming up hunter biden's legal teams met with doj prosecutors today. what sources tell nbc news they were there to discuss. and one day into his reelection bid, we talk to independent voters in a key county in pennsylvania, what they are saying about president biden. ugh covid-19? i'm not waiting. if it's covid, paxlovid.

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news that hunter biden's legal team met with prosecutors at the department of justice today. joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian what were they doing there >> neither side is commenting but we have previously reported that there are four charges under consideration in the hunter biden case, three tax charges and a gun charge, and i

think we can intuit from this meeting that a decision on those charges is perhaps closer than it has been. this case has been going on for years, and we have reported that the fbi and the irs were done with their investigation more than a year ago. and generally, defendants in tax cases get to make their case to the tax division of the justice department about why they think their client shouldn't be charged and the tax division at maine justice in washington has to approve any charges, even though it's the u.s. attorney in delaware that is bringing the case, and that it's a trump appointed u.s. attorney, and so merrick garland, the attorney general has made a point of saying they're independent, he's going to make his own charging decision it is a role for the maine just in washington in the tax cases. >> remind us, what had he been investigated for >> the charges that we believe are on the table are two demeanor charges for failure to file tax returns, and then one potential felony regarding the alleged illegal use of a

business expense and remember there was a lot of evidence on that infamous laptop about financial transactions he was a and apparently didn't file their taxes. there are lots of people that don't file taxes and don't get charged with crimes. the question is whether the doj thinks they can prove criminal intent, he knew he should file and didn't file intentionally. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much. former arkansas governor asa hutchinson is gop nominee or would be gop nominee for president. a asa hutchinson, the 63-year-old officially got in the race this afternoon in his hometown of bentonville, arkansas. >> this campaign is about courage. it is about making the tough decisions to rebuild our economy, to give peace a chance through america's strength, and to renew the american spirit of freedom. opportunity and the rule of law.

and we've got our work cut out for us >> the presidential candidate, the would be gop nominee says he's going to do something different than the rest of the republican field has so far done, that he will not shy away from going directly against donald trump when he thinks it's necessary. and coming up in a moment, we're going to tell you what voters want. we already know the majority of americans aren't thrilled to see a trump/biden rematch in 2024, but since that might be what they're getting, we're asking if anyone will vote differently this time? and we're asking it right now. nbc news correspondent, dasha burns, is in a pennsylvania county where republicans turned out in 2020, but not for donald trump. so dasha, i guess that means they turned out for joe biden. how are they feeling this time around >> reporter: yeah, mystery solved, katy hello from sunrise diner in

bucks county, a swing county outside philadelphia we're hearing a lot of what we heard in our nbc news poll, folks are concerned about biden's age. they're concerned about how the administration is doing on the economy from younger voters, i have been hearing a lot about climate. folks are worried that the administration hasn't really done enough, hasn't talked loudly enough about issues around climate change. but i want you to hear from one voter we met today, a gentleman named mo, he's an independent voter, a small business owner and he is frustrated with things as they stand right now. but i want to give a little bit of a twist to what he told me. take a listen, and then we'll talk on the other side >> i did biden i did biden. and i'm not happy with it. i did trump in 2016. i just -- i switched over because i felt like this country was losing itself. >> reporter: is there a chance that trump could win you back? >> no, for me to go republican,

i need a new republican nominee, i need a different face. i would prefer that with the democratic nominee as well, but yeah, for the republican nominee, i think we need a change of pace and i think that's the only way that the republicans will take the white house is if they have a new face in there. >> reporter: now, here's the thing, katy, i asked him if biden could win him back again in 2024, he said, yes, possibly, he would have to talk more to the moderates, talk more to independents like him. i asked, though, what would happen if there were a biden versus desantis match up that's where he gave the hmm, that might change things he might potentially lean desantis, but that is by no means a done deal. he's going to watch. he's going to see how things play out in the republican primary. the thing we have been hearing all around, trump versus biden

2020 replay, not something anybody we've talked to is looking for. >> it's so interesting, when you look back at 2020, the people who did not vote for donald trump, the moderate republicans and the independents, those are exactly republicans need to win back the white house but we have seen no signs as of yet that any of them would go back to donald trump. yes, he's got enthusiasm among the base as i know you know, you talk to people about it, but it's those people who were tired of him after 2016. what reason do they have to come back to him in 2024? >> well, this is the primary problem for the republican party, and i literally mean the primary problem for the republican party the way the primary system is set up caters to candidates like former president trump, right? it is set up for him to play to that place, to really use those voters he's got a very high ceiling with that, you know, 30

something percent of republican voters where he might be great for the primary. he might not be the best candidate for the general election and we saw that time and time again, example over and over and over again in the midterms and so that's the challenge that republicans are dealing with right now. they've got a candidate that's got a hold on the party that is very likely right now very much the front runner, but voters that they're going to really need to win a general election, voters like mo are taking a step back and saying, you know what, i can't vote for the guy again >> and pay attention to dasha, you were in the places where those voters are really going to have a say that's what's going to decide the election pennsylvania, wisconsin, a handful of other states. dasha, thank you very much. and ahead, what some lawmakers are trying to do to help parents keep their kids off social media first up, though, amid political, social and religious shifts, israel is celebrating its 75th anniversary what does the future look like for america's closest mideast

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trinet. people matter. today is israel's 75th independence day, but there are a growing number of israelis including some prominent leaders who are worried about making it to year 76 and beyond. right now, the country is going through an identity crisis, cleving itself in two over prime

minister's benjamin netanyahu's plan to overhaul the judicial system joining me now from jerusalem is nbc news correspondent josh lederman, and, josh, i have heard some prominent former israeli leaders openly worry in writing about the country's future >> that's right, and it's a real contrast of the mood on the street on a day like today, israel is celebrating 75 years of existence israelis taking to the streets in celebration, in patriotism, sending off fireworks and silly string over the sky as fighter jets roared over the holy city in honor of the way israel has been able to triumph over external threats, so many wars over its short history , but ths year is different because this year for the first time the biggest threats to israel are coming not from the outside but from the inside. >> the new government headed by

david ben gur yen is stalled in tel aviv. >> reporter: for jews a jubilant return to a homeland, for palestinians, a homeland destroyed. 75 years later, israel is at a cross roads, more divided than ever, this time about the country's democratic future. the current government's sharp shift to the right and consolidation of power raising painful questions about what israel will look like at 100. >> we are fighting for our democracy. we don't call it democracy, we call it det facto dictatorship. >> reporter: the question was -- along the way, things shifted, now it's the ultra orthodox population growing faster than think other. census data shows the average ultra orthodox woman in israel has 6.6 children, secular women

just two >> the ultra orthodox population is growing at such a fast pace that the population is doubling every generation, every 25 years. >> reporter: some economists say that's unsustainable because many ultra orthodox don't work or serve in the military, leaving a shrinking share of the population shoring up israel's economy and security >> our brother, they are jews but of course we should find a way to send them into the labor force. >> reporter: haym goldberg is a photographer whose work centers on his own community, the orthodox he says orthodox people do a lot for israel that secular people often won't, like first aid, charity, and recovering bodies after terror attacks he doubts israel really wants the orthodox to serve in the army, one more fault line

showing cracks this barrier was built two decades ago to wall off the occupied west bank it has become a reminder that while many people share this land, the divisions here are deeply entrenched. >> it's one of the most hard things to be living without an identity >> ahed is a palestinian born in jerusalem but who makes his art in the west bank he says the current far right government makes him hopeful that it will force the world to see israel for what it is. >> i think this is the beginning of the end of israel if this government will stay in charge >> reporter: is that a good thing or a bad thing for the palestinians >> a good thing for the palestinians, definitely. >> reporter: back in jerusalem, hayem has discovered something new of late coming into focus in his lens he says until now if i passed a torn flag, i would think nothing of it, just throw it away. but today, it has a different meaning about how israel's society is completely torn

apart. and, katy, tomorrow night here in jerusalem, we're going to see a massive protest but it's not like those images of the huge antigovernment protests we have seen for some 16 weeks now in tel aviv this one will not be against the government but for prime minister netanyahu's judicial overhaul, and consolidation of power. they're calling it the million march of obvious play on america's million man march. it's expected to feature largely settlers and religious israelis and then two days later in tel aviv on saturday, yet another march against the government just the latest example of how this country is really pitting citizens against each other, so many tensions here as israel celebrates its 75th anniversary. >> josh lederman, a really well done piece thank you very much for bringing it to us. and coming up, need some help keeping your kids off social media washington may be about to lend you a hand plus, another american killed in sudan, aarppently during a cease fire.

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and use social media in the digital world. >> senators brian schatz and tom cotton might not agree on much if anything, but they have found common ground when it comes to kids and their online well being. the pair along with a bipartisan group of lawmakers introduced a new bill today that would ban kids under the age of 13 from using all social media platforms and would also add parental consent along with restrictions on the use of algorithms for teenagers up to 17 years old joining me now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, strange bed fellows aside, talk to me about this legislation, and any chance it has on reaching the senate floor. >> well, look, i think it's because of the strange bed fellows that it might have a future in the senate, especially when you see some of the most progressive members of the senate, brian schatz, working with some of the most conservative members on the republican side like tom cotton. i think that can't be overstated

here as something that's both intriguing from a political bed fellows perspective and a political reality check perspective. it allows us to see that this could have a future in the senate, and then open questions about what happens if it actually gets to the house look, at this point, they're introducing this new bill, the protecting kids online act and it does apply to all social media platforms. we're talking tiktok, instagram, facebook, and what it would do is set a minimum age of 13 to use social media apps. it would also require anyone 13 to 17 to have their parents consent to get on those platforms, and it would ban social media companies to recommend content outside of algorithms for users under the age of 18. again, this is step one, just the simple introductory phase. we'll watch and see as leadership starts to see the general consensus around this on the senate side and if they actually end up giving this a vote the fact that they have bipartisan consensus and the

broad range of political views here is a good sign for something actually getting done. >> let me ask you about another thing, and that's the supreme court. tl there's a lot of criticism of justice clarence thomas and his ethical obligations. there's now very similar criticism of justice gorsuch, neil gorsuch, and there was a ask of the chief justice, john roberts, to testify in front of the senate judiciary committee by senator dick durbin who chairs that committee. what has the chief justice said, and what might senator durbin do in response? >> reporter: no go on chief justice roberts coming before this committee to testify. for durbin he says that's not acceptable because he wants the chief justice of the supreme court to be part of this conversation around a code of ethics for the supreme court, especially in light of the reporting that has shown those reports that you're talking about, about clarence thomas and about neil gorsuch, both supreme

court justices and potential ethics violations or at least things that look a little bit fishy publicly and from an optics perspective that's what's prompting multiple senators here, again, to renew calls for reforms on the ethics of the supreme court you're not just hearing it from chairman durbin on the judiciary side, though they are going to be doing a hearing on that, and they did want the chief justice to be part of that conversation, that hearing is going forward regardless, but we're also seeing senators start to coalesce around the idea of insisting, of mandating that the supreme court institute a new code of ethics that could better govern instances like we've seen become public around thomas and gorsuch and others that's going to be something that again they are pushing forward towards, you see a hearing like this from the judiciary committee in a week or so that would be a catalyst wait to go see it on paper. >> not making money from someone arguing a case in front of the supreme court. pretty straightforward and obvious rule ali vitali, thank you very much.

and amanda zarowski, the lead plaintiff in an abortion access lawsuit against the state of texas testified before the senate judiciary committee today. you might remember because we interviewed her here on this show last week that she almost died because she was denied an abortion after her doctors cerv support her baby she was told her 18-week-old fetus could not and would not survive. but it was not until she became septic in spite a 103-degree fever she says days later that the hospital finally agreed she was sick enough to make it legal to induce her. now she says because of the physical trauma she's experienced, one of her fallopian tubes is completely blocked with scar tissue >> we've heard a lot today about the mental trauma and the negative harmful effects on a person's psychological

well-being after they have an abortion, supposedly and i'm curious why that's not relevant for me as well, because i wasn't permitted to have an abortion and the trauma and the ptsd and the depression that i have dealt with in the eight months since this happened to me is paralyzing. on top of that,i am still struggling to have children and i wanted to address my senators, cruz and cornyn, neither of whom regrettably are in the room right now, but i would like for them to know that what happened to me i think most people in this room would agree was horrific but it's a direct result of the policies that they support i nearly died on their watch and furthermore, as a result of what happened to me, i may have

been robbed of the opportunity to have children in the future and it's because of the policies that they support. what happened to me was horrible, but i am one of many and quite frankly, i'm lucky i'm lucky that i have a husband that could take me to the hospital i don't have other children that i had to worry about finding health care for. i have a job that was understanding that allowed me to grieve for three days as i waited to almost die what about all of the women that don't have those same opportunities, that don't have access to health care, that don't have health insurance, that don't have a partner. what about them? the house whisperer! this house says use realtor.com to see homes in your budget. you're staying in school, jacob! realtor.com. to each their home. (vo) verizon small business days are coming. april 27th through may 3rd. realtor.com. now is the time to partner with our experts.

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the state department has confirmed that a second american citizen has been killed in sudan. dr. sulamen was killed in front of his home even after a three-day cease-fire between two rival generals had been

established. the s the death was announced on f facebook the death toll as of now stands at 400 people. joining me now is raf sanchez. raf, the cease-fire, how does it come to be that people are still being killed in the cease-fire >> yeah, well, that's the question, katy the doctor was taking his father to a routine medical appointment when he was killed in the crossfire at a time when the guns were supposed to be silent, which gives you a sense of just how patchy this cease-fire was the doctor is a long-time resident of iowa his family still lives there as well as his college-age children he returned to sudan to teach at the medical school there he was deeply admired by his peers in the medical community our team caught up with one of his fellow doctors earlier i want you to take a listen to just a little bit of the tribute that was paid to him

>> he was an outstanding human being. he was a humanitarian. he's someone who had the best medical training and had the best job and yet at some point he decided that he wants to go back to sudan where he's played an important, incredible role helping medical students, medical trainees, treating patients, being a voice of wisdom, being a person that people always looked up to served as a role model >> now, katy, this cease-fire may be patchy but it is better than nothing of right now it is due to expire at midnight tomorrow local time at 6:00 p.m. eeastern the state department is hoping it will be extended further but people on the ground in sudan tell us they fear all hell is going to break loose when that deadline passes, so they are

using this lull in the fighting right now to venture out, to seek medicine, to seek food. and for some families, this is their best window of opportunity to try to escape we are seeing thousands of sudanese heading north to the egyptian border. they are heading east to the port of sudan where they are hoping to get on boats to saudi arabia and other locations there are still some 16,000 americans in the country who are making their way out in drips and drabs. 46 americans made it to saudi arabia earlier today, but this is a situation that is not looking good at all. there is really no firm sense of diplomacy, of mediation between these two rival forces within the sudanese military. now earlier today the first plane of british evacuees landed here in london as the international community tries to get their people out.

>> our hearts go out to everybody caught in that mess, raf sanchez, thank you very much that right there will do it for me today "deadline white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone it's 4:00 in new york. there's incredible new reporting with new details on the ouster of top fox news anchor tucker carlson. from the network that gave him the platform to spew information that has perhaps permanently reshaped our politics. from the newspaper that is owned by the very same people who reportedly made the decision to fire him, rupert and lachlan murdoch. we have reporting on the factors that helped seal his fate, including his behavior including bombshelsc