more questions but she won't be in jackson while she waits for answers. >> i went today after work looking for a house to get out of jackson, mississippi, because i refuse to stay where capital police will be involved. >> when i asked commissioner about the shooting of latasha smith, he said the investigation is ongoing they have filed a lawsuit against the capital police department and commanders, accusing them of acting recklessly profit.

you're trying to sell your 2019 book, they said. she says she is doing final financially and didn't need the book money why didn't you come forward when it actually happened, they said? >> carroll said she didn't because she was in incredible pain and mourning. the defense said maybe it was about status, you were fired from elle magazine in 2019, do you remember them saying after you lost your job, you felt like

just another person. yes, she said. in new york, status is important, she said. the defense said maybe it was because she hated trump's policies you're a democrat, they said the defense questioned her past descriptions of the incident you didn't call it rape in 2019 on cnn, they said. you said rape had so many sexual connotations and it could be a fantasy for some people, they said do you think rape is sexy, the defense asked? no, she said, i think rape is one of the most horrible and violent things that can happen to a woman or a man. donald trump says he did not rape carroll he says, he's never met carroll. he says she's not his type joining me now from outside the u.s. district court in new york city is nbc news correspondent ron allen. again, another emotional and heavy day of testimony, but this time with the defense trying to poke holes in her motivations and why she would come out with this claim. >> right now, katy, she's being

questioned about the alleged assault the moment it happened he has walked her through the time they met outside the department store to this moment, and from the dialogue, you were in a battle, and you never screamed for help, he asked her. she says i'm not a screamer. i was in a panic fighting. you can't beat me up for not screaming. some women scream. some don't he raped me whether i screamed or not, and she breaks down in tears. so that gives you a sense of the directives of this, the aggressiveness of the questioning, and how tacopina, trump's attorney is trying to pick her story apart he walked her through the entire time she says she was in the store. asked, did donald trump have security with him. she says i didn't see them you didn't see anybody in the store during the whole time you came in and went up the

elevator, six flights and went to the lingerie department no salespeople, and she essentially says i was engrossed in the deep conversation with donald trump wasn't looking around at other people i was involved in the conversation, light banter, and joking back and forth, and they're bantering about him trying on piece of lingerie that she describes in detail, and that's when she says the alleged assault happened so her credibility is on the line now she's been questioned about a number of things about her writing, about her politics, about e-mails with friends, and there are a number of times where she says i don't remember this or i don't remember that, but she has vividly described the attack, the alleged attack, and that's what the defense is zeroing in on. she can't remember the day this happened, month this happened, the year this happened, but she can remember exactly what she says donald trump did to her that day, and the defense is trying to convince the jury that

this is just unbelievable, inconceivable, that it didn't happen, and that's where we expect the questioning to continue on in the afternoon, cross-examination for another couple of hours we have perhaps. but again, it's been very intense, very particular trump's attorney, trying to poke holes in her story trying to tear her story apart it's also the deadline today, ron, to say whether donald trump will testify, any news there on that. >> reporter: we expect to hear about that at the end of court when the judge is trying to figure out where we go from here we believe tomorrow is an off day, a dark day for the court. that's been the judge's schedule he did -- he was very firm with trump's attorney that he wants to know if he's going to come here the judge is concerned about security the judge is concerned about another scene, like happened here two weeks ago when trump made an appearance in the criminal proceeding just down the street there are huge protests, a huge security issue

the courthouse virtually shut down while he -- trump appeared, and the judge is trying to anticipate something like that that i think is his big concern. not necessarily anything trump would say. we hope to hear about that trump is appearing, however, or will appear in a deposition, a video deposition that he did about the case, where again, he denies ever knowing carroll, ever meeting her, denies that this ever happened, and that it's politically motivated and designed to make money and to put her in the spotlight >> ron allen, thank you very much, and joining me now for further discussion is nbc news legal analyst, danny cevallos. what the defense is trying to do is to say that this is because she wants attention. she wanted her person hood back, essentially. going to be another half status in new york city they're also saying this is financial for her. that she wanted to sell her book and saying this is politically

motivated for her. they took out a portion of her book that didn't make it into the final draft where she talks about all of the policies that she hated that donald trump had. they're using something that wasn't published but in an original draft how much does that affect her credibility? >> this is standard cross-examination for a plaintiff like this. you have to attack their memory or their perception or even whether or not they're fender bender -- fabricating, and in this case, as unpleasant as it is, you have to ask the question, why did you wait to report even though we know now that victims of sexual assault sometimes never report at all for many different reasons, fear of reprisal, all kinds of different reasons. the defense will explore that point. are you doing this for politics or status, as you mentioned, and of course every plaintiff you cross examine about whether or not this is about money, and that's exactly the playbook that the defense here is pursuing in this case, however, you have a plaintiff who has spoken a

lot. you have a lot to cross-examination her with and a lot of opportunities to try and make that case that this was all about politics you don't like trump's politics, and status as she said in new york, which is very important. will it be effective who knows. the defense is duty bound to explore. >> she talks about how she didn't like donald trump's policy she was very public about that let me ask you about what the defense started with, the cnn interview where she talks about not calling it rape because rape can be a fantasy for some people donald trump was asked about this in his video deposition again, donald trump has not testified, but he did give a video deposition, and he said to that question, she actually indicated that she loved it okay, i think she said it was sexy, didn't she she said it was verysexy to be raped. jean carroll's attorney said i want to confirm it's your testimony that e. jean carroll

said she loved being sexually assaulted by you based on her interview with anderson cooper, i believe that's what took place oh, gosh, go through that for me, danny. what is he saying here is he admitting to this? how significant is that? >> trump has a way, not just on twitter but in depositions of speaking in a language that is very noncommittal. and it appears there that he's vaguely committing to her story. if that's what she said, then that's what happened, and why this is particularly devastating for trump as a civil defendant here is that because we believe he's choosing not to appear: assuming he does not appear, the plch plaintiff will be permitted to play that into evidence. he won't be able to get on the stand and say this is taken out of context what i meant is that's what she's saying, that's her story, which i'm sure is what he would

say were he on the stand that's the challenge people don't realize, depositions can make or break a case, if you say something out of context, that's locked in granite and is going to come back to bite you. >> this is a federal case but a civil case it's defamation and battery. if donald trump loses, hooe's n going to prison, but what could he be facing >> really looking at money damages only, even though it has been correctly called a civil rape case because of new york's law that reopened the statute of limitations, the defamation and rape case are the same thing what the plaintiff has prove is trump was lying about the plaintiff when he said he did not rape her, and it's the same burden of proof, really, that she was, in fact, sexually assaulted. that's what she has to prove here, not beyond a reasonable doubt, jest a preponderance of the evidence, 51%. >> and that statute was opened up after the news of harvey

weinstein. i got that right, right? >> and i have a few of these cases, actually. it reopened the statute, gave a one-year window, that people anytime they were assaulted could file a suit. that's a good thing. the challenge since then is how do you prove something that happened decades ago in a predigital era, where witnesses have disappeared, died or forgotten anything that happened. >> it's an acknowledgment that a lot of women did not come forward at the time because they were scared and didn't feel like they would be supported. danny cevallos, thank you very much. a federal appeals court has rejected the former president's appeal to block mike pence for testifying before a grand jury about january 6th. joining me now is nbc news senior legal correspondent, laura jarrett. fill me in. >> the d.c. circuit late last night told the former president you're not going to get a pause on the lower court that ordered the former vice president to testify. the special counsel is particularly interested in the conversations between pence and

trump leading up to january 6th. what in particular, the effort by trump to block the certification of the election. essentially to overturn the will of the people to make sure that joe biden was not elected the next president now, pence was all too happy to come in as long as he could resist on sort of this interesting constitutional issue, the speech and debate issue. it was a novel legal argument. he felt like he had won on that. he was going to go in until trump tried house.

plus, we rarely hear this side of the story, but the parents of the 25-year-old louisville bank shooter say it's po important for them to say something. what they told savannah guthrie about their son. and ron desantis polishing up his policies, in a maybe presidential run what's overshadowing his visit we're back in 60 seconds get started today with verizon business. it's your business.

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house speaker kevin mccarthy managed to pull together the fractious republican caucus. the bill is doa in the senate where the democrats are in control. mccarthy is still considering this passage a win in his pending debt negotiations with the white house. joining me now is nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. so factor in senate republicans and what this means for the leverage that mccarthy will have with president biden >> katy, the lever raage in they you set up the segment the white house says they aren't going to engage in negotiations with mccarthy, but what he can do is send the house home tomorrow they're leaving tomorrow, out next week, he's going on a foreign trip, and the debt issue will sit like a political hot potato in the democratic controlled senate and in the white house. mccarthy can argue correctly that his chamber with republican only votes has passed the only bill yet that lifts the debt ceiling and that if senate

democrats have a bill to lift the debt ceiling, it should pass a clean debt limit should pass mitch mcconnell is not going to give up republican votes to get democrats to 60. and mccarthy can sit back and wait a little bit, arguing that he has done the responsible thing, whatever else folks might think about this bill, it does raise the debt ceiling, and he can sit back and wait and say joe biden needs to do the responsible thing and come to him. mccarthy and biden are each trying to convince the country that they are handling this issue in a more responsible way. mccarthy can at least now say he has acted and then skip town and leave it to the democrats to decide how they want to respond. >> garrett haake, thank you very much. and don't want

people in an impaired state to have a weapon tin their hand. now, it becomes more complex to thread the needle and protect us from those people while still being conscious of the individual rights and liberties,

so we're not out here on some crusade to restrict people from buying guns. we have really smart people in this country, and there's no reason why we cane f't find a solution to this problem. >> you're not on a crusade, you're not political people. you don't know what the change should be, you just know there should be change. >> correct unfortunately, sometimes this conversation does fall along political lines, and there are some people who say it's about mental health. it's not about guns. and there's some people who say it's about the guns. what are you saying? >> what we want to say is those two are interrelated to each other, in our situation, especially, because of his mental condition he should not have been able to purchase the gun. because of his mental condition, if there had been a delay or something of that nature, that would have been helpful. >> yeah, because -- here's what

we know. we know connor was seeing two mental health professionals and that he was able to walk in and from what we have been told, again, i don't know, you know, just what we have been told that he walked in and walked out with a weapon and ammunition in 40 minutes. >> and it was $600. >> in less than an hour. >> in less than an hour. >> the full interview is quite revealing, and definitely worth watching catch it all on nbcnews.com. coming up next, what ron desantis might have planned and what nikki haley is saying about his fight with disney. plus, what hpeapned, "the new york times" has brand new reporting on what might have actually led to tucker carlson's firing

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there is new talk about when

ron desantis will take time out from pretending not to run to actually announcing a run officially four gop operatives tell nbc news that desantis is poised to jump into the 2024 presidential race as soon as mid may. right now he is in israel continuing his week-long international trade mission where he's trying to strengthen florida's economic relationships and his standing abroad. but state side fallout is growing over a new disney lawsuit accusing him of quote government retaliation soon to be rival probably, nikki haley mocked desantis's feud with florida's largest employer and offered disney a new home saying quote, south carolina is not woke, but we're not sanctimonious about it either. joining me now is nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez, in jerusalem for ron desantis's visit, and in manchester, new hampshire, where donald trump will be speaking soon nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard you have had an interesting trip

in israel. you have spoken to prime minister benjamin netanyahu about desantis, and one of the questions you asked him was who do you like better, desantis or donald trump, and he gave you an answer what did he say? >> reporter: a non-answer, essentially. benjamin netanyahu very politically savvy, and walking a fine line here, not picking a side in this presidential race, of course, and not willing to weigh into who he would like better, his staunch ally, former president donald trump, and governor desantis who he has met with before in 2017 and 2019, calling him a good friend of israel today, and saying he spoke with him about iran. certainly as you mention here in israel, governor desantis doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on the fight with disney. he seemed eager to talk about it when i brought it up to him, and asked him to square how him touting his pro business record around the world and now the

largest employer in his state is accusing him of being anti business, and orchestrating allegedly this campaign of government retaliation the governor coming back and saying he believes this lawsuit is political, and he says that disney should not be able to govern himself, and he's also asked about that nbc news reporting, that four gop operatives now saying desantis could jump into the race as early as midday. one source saying it could be an exploratory committee first followed by a campaign launch later. he responded to that reporting today. take a listen. >> there's no doubt that anything said, i've been focused on this mission we have been doing. we're going to end up making it pretty much around the world by the time we're done, and if there's any announcements, you know, those will come at the appropriate time if anyone's telling you that somehow they know this or they know that, that's just inaccurate because there's not been any decision made.

>> reporter: this trip abroad wildly seen as a way to build his foreign policy credentials ahead on donald trump, felt

like she could no longer go with limb him and needed to go with the guy she knew another voter, ralph, i listed a few of the other candidates. is donald trump your man definitely for 2024? >> right now, yes. i think i need a leader that's able to stand forcefully in front of other world leaders and say we're not going to be pushed around anymore and not afraid to stand strong. >> reporter: what about nikki haley? >> no. not going to push out trump yet. >> reporter: what about mike pence? >> nope. absolutely not >> reporter: what about ron

desantis >> no. nope i would like to see the two of them mutually come together and agree to work with each other. and perhaps at the forefront, a leader, and handing off to somebody like ron in the future. >> reporter: now, katy, let's look at a reality to this. right now in new hampshire polling, donald trump has a sizable lead he is wrapping up legislative endorsements i was talking with a close trump ally they have had eight years to build a machine. they have been garnering campaign contacts to folks who voted for him in 2016, and 2020. donald trump is a known entity here everybody knows what he is able to serve up and it's going to be up o ron desantis and nikki haley come give them a try right now, the trump organization feels good about where they're standing in new hampshire. exactly why he's coming here.

>> i guess you're saying he's a pepperoni pie, and people have to try the pineapple ham to see if they like it. that's where i think you're going with that. vaughn hillyard, thank you very much, and gabe gutierrez, thank you very much as well. joining me now is msnbc political analyst, peter baker thanks for being here. let's start with desantis in israel how do you think he's doing so far in this world tour that he's on >> look, you know a governor like desantis has to show that he can play on the international stage, at least the additional theory of presidential politics, you often see a candidate without the foreign policy experience make this trip. barack obama did it. other candidates did it in order to sort of demonstrate they're bonafide it doesn't matter too much you'll hear about this trip for the months to come on the campaign trail when you hear the candidates say, well, when i was in japan, when i was in israel

to convey that he is a serious person and they can trust the power to be commander in chief it doesn't really have that much impact beyond that a box to check, i think. >> the culture wars he has been waging in florida. they have been on the extreme end of things. the war he has been waging with disney appears to be fighting back you had nikki haley coming to south carolina we're not woke but we're not sanctimonious about it which is a reference to donald trump's put down of ron desantis can that come back to haunt him maybe in the primary but especially in the general? >> yeah, i think, look, i think you're seeing republican opponents of desantis reverting to the point of view, business ought not to be under the thumb of government. that's something that normally is not the kind of philosophy a

republican audience would adhere to because it's about wokism because wokism is a popular issue, he feels like it's still a main issue a lot of voters are uncomfortable with the idea of bashing a business for private decisions. >> this from nikki haley who basically said joe biden is going to die soon. quote, he announced he's running again in 2024. we can all be clear and say with a matter of fact, if you vote for joe biden, you're counting on a president harris because the idea that he would make it until 86 is not something that i think is likely. hailey said in an interview with fox news i don't really know what to ask you about that, but seems taking it a step farther than most. >> it's a blunter way of putting the argument you're hearing from republicans. she said it just flat out, look,

he might not be alive by the end of the second term. >> she says he thinks it's likely he's going to die it's likely. >> reporter: we'll see whether there's a penalty for being too indiscreet in the way you approach this. that's the argt you'ument you'rg to hear. a vote for joe biden is a vote for kamala harris, a way of attacking him through her. her numbers aren't as strong as his, and his aren't that great age is a big issue it may not be fair and it may be certainly something she's sensitive about. asked about it yesterday in the rose garden. he's the oldest president, would be 86 at the end of his second term he said it's a legitimate question to ask. watch him, and therefore make their judgment a lot of polls show that voters have made a judgment and they think it's time for him to step down after this term, and hebs he's going to push on. and the question is hold him

back, as opposed to something voters are reluck ttant and make voters in a general election more likely to vote for donald trump ron desantis is much younger, 44 >> peter baker, thank you very much appreciate having you on. the suspected classified documents leaker was back in court today. what is on his record beyond the leak that prosecutors say makes him both dangerous and a flight risk but first, a moment of relief across the red sea from sudan. watch what happened with a sky news africa correspondent was reporting on a group of sudanese refugees who made it out to saudi arabia >> oh, my god, that's my uncle that's my uncle.

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deciding whether to release jack teixeira pending trial he is a potential flight risk who may have access to classified information it comes as a new 18-page court filing reveals more about the invest into the 21-year-old and his alleged history of violent and racist remarks online including posts about wanting to carry out a mass shooting. teixeira has not entered a plea. he has been in custody since his arrest earlier this month. joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian the messages about wanting to commit a mass shooting, what else did they find when they were going through teixeira's record in his house that gave him reason to think that he is

dangerous? >> he had a number of firearms, and he was outfitted with camouflage and tactical gear he painted a picture of a person who has been emotionally disturbed going back to high school, talking about a molotov cocktail the local police denied him a gun permit wouldn't let him have a license to get a gun he got a top secret security clearance in the airport they're also saying that he may have access to a lot more classified information than already has been made public they're concerned about that they're concerned that a foreign power could help him escape, and they think he's a flight risk. he's facing 25 years in prison and therefore should be held without bond the defense presented an entirely different picture of a person who they say is a law-abiding 21-year-old with no criminal record and supportive family in the area they want him to stay at his

father's house which is monitored with ring cameras, and he would have no access to the internet the judge did not rule today the judge is taking this under advisement. >> how did he get into the air force if he's got a record like that i thought they did an extensive background check before they let you have any classification? >> reporter: they do, and in the documents filed for the hearing, he goes over that with his background check, with the people doing the background check for the air force, and essentially convincing them whatever he said in high school was not who he was today, and so they gave him the clearance. i think there's going to be a lot more questions along the lines of the ones you're asking asked of the air force in the wake of this information >> kenn dilanian, thank you ver much. two former associates of steve bannon were sent to prison for sending hundreds of thousands of dollars for the we build, andrew battalatto both

pleaded guilty for siphoning the funds. golphage was seasontenced to fo years, and his codefendant will spend three years in prison. they have been ordered to pay $25 million in restitution to their victims. bannon was charged for his role in the scheme but was pardoned by former president donald trump before he left office. bannon still faces state charges in new york for fraud, money laundering and conspiracy to which he has pleaded not guilty. coming up, new reporting on why tucker carlson may have been fired. plus, montana'fis rst transgender lawmaker is silenced after republicans ban her from the state house floor. what she says she'll do next two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good! (vo) verizon small business days are back. april 27th through may 3rd. and allergy relief.

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keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. what did tucker carlson do to make fox abruptly fire him? "the new york times" reports that several people with knowledge say carlson's private text messages, the ones that were redacted in the dominion legal filings were the catalyst for his dismissal, the messages showed carlson making highly offensive and crude remarks that went beyond the inflammatory, often racist comments on his prime time show and beyond even what had been disclosed by dominion in the lead up to the trial. nbc news has not independently confirmed this reporting, and tucker carlson has not directly

addressed his firing from fox news joining me now is "new york times" reporter and msnbc contributor, jeremy peters so jeremy, what could be worse than what he says on tv? >> reporter: well, if you look at what he said on his text messages, the stuff that we already know about, fox obviously found that so damaging that it contributed to their decision to settle the case, but because fox persuaded the judge to hide so much of tucker carlson's private communications behind these big black boxes that were redacted in court filings, we just don't know what that is. and legally, "the new york times" and other outlets are pursuing those redactions to get them unredacted. so maybe we will know san ome d what those say, but just keep in mind, everything that we know

tucker carlson saying trump is a demonic horse, that he is responsible for like this deadly outbreak of violence, that he didn't believe a word of the voter fraud stuff that fox put on the air we know all of that. so imagine what we don't know and how bad fox thinks that is >> yeah, so the redactions, i know there's a lawsuit pending about it my question when i read that was how is that lawsuit still pending after the case itself was settled? >> reporter: right and that's something the judge has to figure out. "the new york times" and others are petitioning the judge to settle this once and for all, like he may decide mute this case has been settled or he may agree with the position of the news organizations that have challenged the redactions. look, you can't just redact something because it's embarrassing that's what the law says

and that's what fox has done >> there is also another lawsuit. they could go after this stuff, right? >> right and, you know, that's true the discovery in both cases is overlapping. this is a little more challenging because it's not going to go to trial until 2025. it's in new york new york courts are very backlogged delaware was incredibly fast the fact this went to trial as quickly as it did is unusual one of the things that made this case so unique i think the smart madic case, i wouldn't expect it to yield the kind of, you know -- the discovery that we've seen now. >> we're talking about the stuff redacted in if the filings they've had that for quite bate

of time. why did the firing come on monday why didn't it happen months and months and months ago? had. >> well, that's one of the biggest questions that i think people at fox have why didn't they know more about just how bad this case was on the one hand, you have, you know, the senior legal advisors at fox corporation saying, look, we can win this. we may not win in delaware in front of a delaware jury but we can win it on appeal. then, aside from that, they're also kept in the dark about what exactly is in this discovery when you're at the companies at a high level, you're not engaged in the day-to-day kind of stuff. but the lawyers probably should have left a notice earlier than the day before the case was set to go to trial

i think that there is a lot of questioning inside fox right now about why didn't the legal team tell us this >> you're right. in this piece of yours in "the times," dominion voting and defamation trial against fox was set to begin the fox board of

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we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch.

montana's first state legislator is banned from the house floor for the rest of the year zooey zephyr is now only allowed to vote remotely she says republican leadership is trying to silence her after she said anyone that banned gender affirming care would have blood on their hands here is anne thompson. >> representatives vote. 32 voted no. >> motion passes >> reporter: montana legislators banning zooey zephyr, the first transgender legislator from the house chamber for the remaunder did -- remainder of the year

>> this conduct cannot be allowed to stand. >> when the speaker asked me to apologize on behalf of the court. what he is really asking me to do is be silent. >> reporter: zephyr first made waves on the house floor last week after delivering passionate remarks about a bill that would prohibit hormone treatments and surgical care for transgender minors >> i hope the next time there is an invocation and when you bow your heads in prayer, you see the blood on your hands. >> reporter: they say she broke decorum rules and threatened disciplinary action following the remarks. >> the representative from house district number 100 clearly violated the rules, collective rights, safety, dignity, and integrity of the house of representatives. >> reporter: zephyr is standing by her comments. >> you use decorum to silence people who hold you accountable. in the name of all you're doing is using decorum as a tool of

oppression >> reporter: house republicans also argue zephyr incited this protest monday after lawmakers refused to let the democrat speak on the floor all week. but zephyr tells nbc news she doesn't regret what she believes is standing up for democracy >> when you make the correct, moral and ethical choice, it's hard to feel anything other than pride in that moment and pride for the people that came to the capitol to show support for democracy and demand it works. >> thank you for that. and that is going to do it for me today anne thompson, sorry thank you for that that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi, there everyone a blow in court for the twic