about. all we wanted was a little bit of light and levity at the end of your day. thank you for letting me do this, thank you for letting me into your home every night. i have never taken for granted what an absolute privilege this has been. >> look for the light and look for the joy, great advice for all of us heading into this weekend. congratulations to james corden on a great run as the host of the late late show. on that note i wish you for a great night, i'm ali velshi in for stephanie ruhle. you can watch me every night 10 am eastern on msnbc. thank you for staying up late, see this weekend. ♪ ♪ ♪ this is the trump burger. it's a pecker party hopped with a mac and cheese, smothered and she sauce and wedged between

not one, but two grilled cheese sandwiches. it is over the top and kind of stomach turning, much like trump tower itself. yesterday donald trump made a campaign stop at the red arrow diner in manchester, trump tower berger is a featured menu item. we can report that mr. trump ordered one trump tower burger with fries for takeout. but really, i'm not sure how well that traveled. and as trump was about to leave the restaurant, one of his supporters shouted from the crowd, we've got a j sixer here. that's meeting someone who is part of the capital riot on january 6th was there in the restaurant with donald trump. and this is what happened next. [inaudible] >> thank you, president trump. >> love you -- >> we love trump! [crowd chanting]

we love trump! we love trump! we love trump! [crowd chanting] >> get over here. >> president trump, on your college republican -- >> thank you, president trump. thank you, sir. [inaudible] >> here, take this pen. you've been through too much. the woman you saw donald trump wrap his arms around here is named mickey larsson olson. she is a trump supporter and a member of the qanon fringe offshoot known as negative 48. and as you heard in that diner, nikki larsson olson was one one of the rioters on january six.

when police asked her to leave, she resisted, calling them traitors. in the end, six police officers had to carry mickey larsson olsen off of the capitol scaffolding as she fought them. in september of last year, mickey larsson olson was convicted by a jury and sentenced to 180 days in jail for her role in that attack. just before that trial, larson olson spoke to nbc news ivan hillyard outside of a trump rally. >> those were domestic terrorists inside our there capitol and i'm going to prove it on my trial. >> who were the domestic terrorists? >> our congress. our congress, that's been stealing elections for a very long time. our country has been under admiralty law since 1871. >> what should the punishment for those members be? >> execution, for being traitors, that's what our constitution demands. our constitution demands that traitors in our nation are executed. and that is what should happen. to each and every person that

hijacks the voice of we the people. >> is that something that you see actually happening? >> a convicted january 6th rioter who called for the execution of lawmakers in congress. that is the woman donald trump embraced yesterday. it's the latest example, but certainly not the only one, that we have of trump actively endorsing the violent mob that attacked the capital. this is, after all, the man who spent months teasing the fact that, if reelected, trump would consider blanket pardons for january 6th defendants. and last month trump recorded that bizarre song with the chorus of january six defendants who recorded their part of the track from jail. he then proceeded to play that track, as he stood on stage, hand on heart, in advance of his first major campaign rally in waco, texas. all of that is weird and terrifying on its own. but at this point it's not just trump, with the hugs and the singalongs from jan six sers,

which is, i guess what we are calling them now. that attitude -- you six years sixers have been wrong, here is a pen. -- it appears to have invested the rest of the republican party. last month, that ice republican elected ranking official in the country, house speaker kevin mccarthy, conspired with a now unemployed fox news host to try and use congressional security camera footage in order to whitewash the events of that day. this week, republicans in montana voted to bar the states lone transgender lawmaker, representative zoe zephyr, from entering the states chamber. and when a peaceful group of zephyr's supporters filled the public gallery at the state house, chanting, let her speak, republicans accused her of -- which is also what happened in tennessee, where republicans tried to expel three democratic lawmakers for participating in an anti gun violence protest at the capitol. the republican speaker of the tennessee house called that peaceful protest an insurrection. later this month, peaceful

protesters gathered outside of minnesota state house to protest an anti-lgbtq and anti-abortion legislation. conservative commentators labeled that an insurrection as well. when transgender rights activists flooded the oklahoma state house back in february, it was trump's oldest son, don jr., who took to social media and comparedhe demonstration to an insurrection. republicans are now taking legitimate forms of peaceful protest, the kind we have seen in this country for decades, and using them to water down the definition of insurrection. because, if everything is an insurrection, then nothing is an insurrection, including january 6th. see how that works? despite whatever the gop is trying to do to appease and rehabilitate the sixers, prosecutors are still fighting for accountability. over 1000 rioters have been charged in connection with the riot on january 6th. right now, we are awaiting a

verdict in the federal seditious conspiracy case against five members of the far-right group the proud boys, for their role in the capitol attack. and that verdict could come as soon as next week. at the same time, the special counsel continues its investigation into trump's role in the january 6th attack, and his attempt to subvert american democracy by overturning the results of the 2020 election. yesterday, prosecutors questioned their most important witness yet, former vice president mike pence testified for five hours behind closed doors. and while trump and his allies continued to downplay the gravity of that attack on our democracy, while they continue to hand out pens and hugs to the people responsible for it, special counsel investigators are getting to the bottom of what happened and seeking justice. joining us now is andrew

weissmann, former fbi general counsel member, and of course an msnbc legal analyst. andrew, it's great to see you. -- how we were going to end up with an insurrection. and all trump connected all the dots for us. >> absolutely. >> it is a serious business here, trump tower burgers aside, what is happening in terms of the concerted and outright republican effort to downplay, to trivialize what happened on january 6th and i wonder what you think the implications of this whitewashing are for the broader attempt to seek accountability. >> i think two things that you played what happened in terms of the embracing, literally embracing the january 6th convicted defendant and what happened at waco. that is playing at a political level. but when i look at that as a former prosecutor, i see an exhibit. and this is where we will have this huge dichotomy between what donald trump is doing in

the political sphere, with his base, and then in a court of law. and in a court of law, at least to date, facts and law matter. and when donald trump -- and what which i think is going to happen, on trial in connection with the january 6th events, which is leading the, which is why he is denigrating it now, because he is about to be indicted, i think, for being the leader of it -- these kinds of efforts on his part, where he is embracing it -- are an exhibit. he can't then say, i was somehow surprised, i was against it, these are my people -- >> and he is part and parcel of them -- which is, just taking on the unthinkable. you go back to john mccain. where everyone thinks he was a war hero. except donald trump -- people who fought in wars or people who are chumps, when -- heroes of the nation. and this is just part of that

same process. but i do think, part of law -- he has lived a long time without this being being called to the carpet on it -- i think that's going to happen. >> does it make it -- i had not even grappled with the idea that that would actually be used as evidence in terms of the inter linkage and relationship between donald trump and the january sixers. but does it make it harder to try the case if there is this attempt to normalize what happened on january 6th? does that complicate, for example, the jury pool? i just wonder if there are dynamics that work in reverse. >> yeah, that's a great question. because, the last time i saw something like that, i used to do mob cases. and the john gati technique was basically to flaunt it. he really wasn't saying, i'm not the boss of the gambian o family. he was basically saying, you know what? you are new yorkers. so what? >> this is how we do business. >> it's a form of during elevation. i think if he's charged in the

january six case it will be in washington d. c. and i don't think that those jurors are going to have a lot of appetite for that kind of argument. and you have seen hundreds of people at a much lower level be convicted. so, there's every reason to think that the person who is actually more responsible is going to be held to account also. >> let's talk about the cases further down the ladder. the proud boys -- we are awaiting that verdict for seditious conspiracy. if special counsel jack smith watching that intently? do you think that that bears any weight at all on his decision to charge? >> i think he's looking at it. you want to know about the particular proof. you want to know if there were any particular issues that the defense raised that were troublesome. but the case against donald trump will be very different. and every case, when you are a prosecutor, you think of as in terms of its unique facts.

>> they're like children. >> yes, in some ways, yes. it's a very individualized determination about whether -- and it's not very sexy to talk about. but you think about it in terms of the defendant and in terms of a specific charge and then the specific elements of that charge. and for each of them, you are saying, can i prove that beyond a reasonable doubt? so, i don't -- at the end of the day, i don't think that a verdict on seditious conspiracy, in the proud boys or oath keepers, case is going to be something that stops jack smith from going forward. >> and the inverse, you also think, is true. if they don't secure a citizen conviction on seditious conspiracy theory, that doesn't have a chilling effect, necessarily, all more jacks mitt is doing. >> right. one way or the other, i don't think we'll have a lot of effect. and by the way, the record is that they so far have been fairly successful. >> yes, yes. i do want to ask about the things that happened down in atlanta this week, which is, this bizarre letter that we got from the fulton county d. a.'s

office, which weighs this presumably -- there's nothing to see here letter that is suggesting increased security between, july 11th and september 1st, because there may be something happening that they could arouse the passions of-- >> that would never be. >> what could that be? they could get people up in arms or incited to violence, which seemed, i think -- everybody that read it, a usual, and the, very much like -- telegraphing. i'm going to charge donald trump between july 11th and september 1st. what did you make of it? and why do you think she made this announcement public? >> so, it certainly is extremely unusual. in my 21 plus years at the department of justice, i have never seen a letter like that. it does not mean that it's improper. it's just extremely unusual. because, usually, you are charge, or you don't charge. and you telegraph that i'm going to be making a decision between this minute and that

minute. >> literally, mark your calendars, don't go away for the weekend, be around. >> it's sort of very helpful for us. >> indeed, it is. >> no vacation during that time -- >> sad. >> but i think she purported to be saying that i want to give you advance notice because you may need to have additional security. i'm not really buying that. -- because you can do that behind the scenes. >> but also, doesn't it undermine security if you are telling people when it's going to happen. >> yeah, there is that. you are also sort of telling people, this is the time to -- >> might want to get a ticket to fulton county. >> yeah, so, i don't know. but i sort of suspect that she used unfortunate term in january when she told the judge that she was going to make a decision imminently. and then she has been walking that back, which is fine. but i sort of feel like, when

you are a public servant -- you all duty of candor that i just think -- it would have been better to say nothing in just sort of take the heat in terms of -- this will come whenever she's ready. >> it seems that jack smith is doing the opposite of fani willis, right? we have no information. we know that mike pence testified. maybe it's wrapping up, maybe they're months to go, who can no? do you think jack smith was part of the audience for fani willis? do you think there's any consideration between these two groups of people that are in many ways pressing the same kind? >> but the georgia case, i think it's a subset of one of the investigations -- which is the january 6th case. it is much broader than just georgia. so, there would be unnatural reason for them to have a deconfliction, meaning if you've got a certain number of witnesses that would be relevant to both jack smith's

case involving georgia and to fani willis is, you don't really want to have those witnesses pulled into two directions, they don't have to be interviewed twice, you do have that kind of coordination, i've seen. not so i wouldn't be surprised. i do think that with the other cases whether isn't not overlap, i don't think there is that kind of coordination. but i don't think the letter when it was sort of written as a -- according to jack smith, because i think they have telephones -- >> rudy giuliani on august 5th -- >> you can just pick up the telephone and have a conversation in the way that happens when you have federal and state cases, and you need to make sure that they're running smoothly. >> do you have any thoughts on the timeline for the special counsel's probe into january 6th given the fact of the vice president just testified? i testified for five hours? >> i just think knowing jack smith and knowing the position he's in, which is the cases -- if they're going to be brought, they have to be brought quickly, i think we're at the very tail

end with respect to mar-a-lago and with respect to january 6th. mike pence is obviously a cap stand. it doesn't mean that there won't be additional cleanup work. i do think that you should look for whether defense council has been brought in to make an argument, because that standard practice, to give that opportunity, but i think that last piece is sort of the last thing i'd be looking for. >> i don't know -- your phrase tail end -- >> i don't mean imminent. >> okay, andrew weissmann is great to see you. thanks for your time. >> we have a lot to get to this evening. democrats at the state level are celebrating a pair of an annex back did victories against extreme abortion bans and we're gonna be talking about what went right and what happens now. plus, supreme court justice sam alito is upset that people are criticizing the court, and he has to take time out of his schedule to rule on mifepristone.

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you pronounce the word, that is how supreme court justice samuel alito apparently pronounced the name of the abortion medication, mifepristone. i'll say it again, mifepristone. alito was speaking in an extended interview with the wall street journal, and explained that he was annoyed

that he had to stop what he was doing to decide whether this drug, mifepristone, or however you pronounce the word, would stay legal while the case worked its way through our judicial system. quote, justice alito finds these applications a nuisance. so sorry to interrupt your work flow, justice alito. it's just a decision about whether not millions of people with uteruses across the country can access the most commonly used method of abortion, but sorry for bothering you. now, we got that little peek behind the curtain, because for some reason justice alito thought it was time to speak to the press. the headline of his newly published interview at the wall street journal says, this made us targets of assassination. which is definitely some kind of headline. it refers to threats justice alito says were caused by the leak of his own decision in the dodds case, the one that overturned roe v. wade. and to be crystal clear here, physical threats against anyone

a reprehensible. at the book at this interview is not actually about that. and the book of this interview is justice alito describing his outrage that anyone is criticizing the court at all. quote, this kind of concerted attack on the court and on individual justices is new during my lifetime. we are being hammered daily, and i think quite unfairly and a lot of instances. and nobody, practically nobody, is defending us. alito says this kind of criticism undermines confidence in the government. the wall street journal says this interview took place on april 13th. and just that day, april 13th, propublica advanced it's already extensive reporting on justice clarence thomas and his ethics scandals, reporting that thomas sold a house to a i conservative billionaire while thomas was on the court, and thomas did not disclose the sale. and despite the fact that his mother no longer owns it, thomas's mother still lives in that house. when the wall street journal

asked alito about promises scandals though, alito's only reply was, all stay away from that. why would anyone in the right mind criticize the court? anyway, since then, in just two weeks, we have got in the news that just days after being confirmed to the supreme court, justice neil gorsuch sold property to the head of the major law firm that frequently has business before the court, and he did not disclose who he sold that property to. and just today, we learned that whistleblower claims that chief justice john roberts wife, who recruits lawyers really law firms, has made at least $10 million in commissions while her husband has been on the court. quote, at least one of those firms argued a case before chief justice roberts after paying his wife hundreds of thousands of dollars. so justice alito's assertion that it is the media criticism of the court that's undermining trust in the institution, is very much up for debate. joining us now is ian, senior correspondent at vox where he focuses on the supreme court. he is also the author of the agenda, how republican supreme

court is reshaping america. ian, thank you for joining me. i know you have thoughts on this. what do you think of justice alito's assertion that the court is being treated particularly unfairly? >> oh my gosh. i mean, what country does he think he lives in? because this is the united states, and here in the united states we criticize our leaders. that is something that is actually called the first amendment that allows us to criticize our leaders. and alito is a justice of the supreme court, so he is supposed to be one of the guardians of our constitution. and, if he doesn't get that as a powerful public official, we get to criticize him, dude is in the wrong line of work. >> even antonin scalia understood that people who are critics should have to do so publicly and not be afraid of the blow back, if you will. we know this from correspondence between -- i think even rulings between him and thomas, right?

thomas offers secrecy and scalia was like this is the home of the braves, stand up for what you believe. and the idea that the court should somehow be shrouded in bubble wrap, particularly at this time where they're issuing some of the most controversial rulings of my lifetime, i think it flabbergasts -- the sense of grievance that was on display in this article it was really stunning, to my mind. >> yeah, it was astonishing. does he not have an aide who can tell them like, hey dude, you have the option to just keep your mouth shut. you don't have to embarrass yourself in an interview that's going to be published in a newspaper. part of what i think the problem is, and if you tie together this silly alito interview with the thomas scandal and all the other news that's going on with the supreme court, judges are supposed to operate not just be completely ethical and above board, but they're supposed to avoid what's called the appearance of impropriety. the reason for that is because judges aren't elected.

they don't have a mandate from the people. the only legitimacy that they have comes from the sense that they are fare, objective, neutral, and they apply the law. when they damage that impression, either by giving a stupid interview to the wall street journal, or by going off and you know, doing whatever clarence thomas is doing with his billionaire benefactor, that doesn't just make them look foolish, it diminishes the reason why we trust the court. it diminishes the reason why we give the court power in the first place. because if we can't trust them to be objective and neutral, and follow the law, and not to corrupt things, then they shouldn't have power. >> it's also very revealing in terms of his attitudes towards some of the very cases that are before the court, the fact that he can't be bothered to figure out how to pronounce mifepristone suggests someone who's quite cavalier with rulings that affect people all over this country, and their bodily autonomy. also found that shocking, and that these rulings themselves

are a nuisance to him. >> yeah, i mean, i started off by saying that alito's in the wrong line of work, and i really mean it. i've covered alito now for 12 or 13 years, he is the most reliable person on the court. he has never found an argument seeking to repeal the affordable care act that he wouldn't vote in favor of, he's never found a restriction on abortion that he wouldn't vote in favor of, he was one of two justices -- and the other one who wrote this thing, there were two who noted -- he was the only one that wrote one. just in case after case he just does that partisan thing, and if you're a senator, that's a fine thing to do. there are plenty of jobs that you can have in federal politics where you get to be a partisan. most jobs in federal politics you get to be a partisan. but the one job you can't do that is judge, and he is a judge, and i again, i think he needs to understand what his role is supposed to be.

>> i will say, we don't have the time to talk about it, but he also has a theory that the leak of the dodd's opinion it came as a result of effectively the liberal justices on the court who did not want the ruling to become the decision of the court. we'll have to talk about that another time, ian, thank you so much for joining me tonight. >> thank you alex. >> still more to come tonight, in the 19 80s donald trump called for the execution of five men who were later exonerated, and we're going to talk to one of those men tonight about karma. plus, extreme abortion bans go down to defeat two different red state legislations. is reality sinking in for republicans? that is next.

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>> that was the scene outside the doors of nebraska's legislature yesterday, after a bill failed that would ban most abortions in the state. under the so-called heartbeat --, the procedure would've banned after six weeks of pregnancy, which is first and foremost before most women know when they're pregnant. that bill failed because it fell one vote short of the number in needed to move it

forward. -- now, one of the senators who abstained was an 80 year old republican who cosponsored the bill, a guy named senator merv riepe. senator riepe was now bothered by the bill could be interpreted as a total ban. he was concerned about what message this would send. since the fall of roe, states have purpose hundreds of abortion related bills but voters across the country have struck on amendments. even in conservative states like kentucky and kansas, and they've elected leadership that will in a right to choose like and wisconsin. and then there's what's happening in south carolina. a state that donald trump won with 55% of the vote in 2020. late last night, another abortion bill failed in that state senate, where republicans outnumbered democrats by 15 seats. this measure was more extreme than nebraska that would have banned abortion from the moment of conception, with a 12-week exception for rape and incest. that measure failed, because of a bipartisan effort led by the only women in the state legislature. the states five female

senators. they were joined by every male democratic senator, and three republican men in a vote to end debate on the bill for the year. >> how many men in this chamber that have voted for personhood or the six-week ban or any of these abortion bans, how many that have come to me, how many men in this chamber have come up to any of us women senators, and said how do you feel? >> joining us now is south carolina state senator margie bright matthews. senator matthews, thank you for making time to join me tonight. i would love to know how you came together with your fellow female colleagues in the state senate to decide to do this. it was a bipartisan coalition, can you tell me a little bit more about what it was like behind the scenes? >> first, thanks for having me.

this is not the only issue that us five senators agree on, and this particular situation, we started talking about this years ago. for years we've been talking about the dogmatic way in which they keep the men and the general assembly keep bringing this abortion issue up. the jobs decision -- added a little bit more fire -- presented to in the senate and in the house. we've been talking about it, and i think just the idea of this abortion issue has bonded the five of us together. >> can you tell me a little bit more about the republican women in your coalition? because i think three of them still support a 12-week ban, which is a tighter window then the present 22-week ban. are they concerned -- what --

what is the meaningful difference between 12 and six weeks, is it political issue, is it an optics issue, is a moral issue, how do you see their position on abortion and restricting it more broadly? >> first, let me say one thing. all five of us believe that we are all pro life. we just have a different way of defining what pro-life as. the three senators, there's one that's really been pushing the 12-week ban, the other two have said that they will -- that they're okay with the six-week ban. the other democratic senator, we have specifically continuously said that a six -week ban is simply a progressive ban all out on abortion, because that's just the beginning. now it's six weeks, and next year they'll start again. >> what happens now, because there's still --

a six-week ban is still on the table, it's been passed now and it now could go to the senate. does that pass? because as you pointed out, it is momentary victory, the fact that a total ban based in conception did not pass. but a six-week ban is very very close to an all-out ban. is that going to pass, do you think? >> a six-week ban passed the senate already. we sent it to the house weeks ago. but the house has refused, because they have a supermajority there. they refused to take our bill up, the six-week ban. let it be clear, i'm not happy with the six-week ban, and several of the other senators are not. however, the house is going to have to consider this week, because we only have six more days in this legislative section. they're gonna have to decide if they're going to take the bill that was passed in the senate. >> yes, and i'm sorry for getting the reversal of the chambers wrong. can i ask you if you think that

this represents republicans coming to terms with either the moral or political downsides, if you will, to restricting bodily autonomy? do you think they're finally beginning to understand that they will have to pay a price at some point, should they choose to rescind a woman's right to choose? >> i'm not optimistic. i really am not. it is my understanding from the rumbling that i've heard in my own chamber, and the senate chamber, is that they will start again once the session begins in january, again with a total ban. i would be surprised if the house accepts the six-week ban. i was concerned that they're trying to whittle down some of the republicans that have been more reasonable on the six-week, and even the 12 weeks, the first trimester, they are

trying to wear them down, so to speak, politically. i am not sure that they're really a big moral issue at all. >> as they say, one step forward, potentially 15 steps backwards. we will fall this as it develops. south carolina state senator margie matthews, thank you for making little time tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> still to come this evening, donald trump made headlines by calling for incredibly harsh punishment. for the so-called central park five. he refused to ever acknowledge their innocence, even after they were exonerated. now, it is trump's turn in court. and one of the exonerated five is using the term karma. that is next. this house says use the realtor.com app to see three different estimates. also, don't take advice from people who don't know what they're talking about. realtor.com to each their home. a mystery! jessie loves playing detective. but the real mystery was her irritated skin. so, we switched to tide pods free & gentle.

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when the most trusted name in home security adds the intelligence of google, you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt. >> making part on their confessions, five teenagers were arrested, tried, and convicted -- for more than six years. but now questions have been raised about those convictions after dna testing identified another man as the rapist, and that man claims he acted alone. supporters of these so-called central park five say that the confessions were coerced, and that the conviction should be vacated. >> on december 19th, 2002, five black and latino men were exonerated after being wrongfully convicted of brutally attacking and raping a woman in central part in april of 1989. the five men came to be known as the central park five, but

to the families, they were just five teenage boys who lost their childhood to the american justice system. soon after the assault, one of america's richest men paid $85,000 to place full page ads in several newspapers, calling on the state of new york to adopt the death penalty. he said quote, sentiments a message loud and clear to those who murders citizens in new york. bring back the death penalty, and bring back our police. that man, was donald trump. and while he didn't include the names of the central part five in his ads, trump made it very clear that his opinion was about this case, and that he hated these five young man. >> of course, i hate these people. and let's all hate these people, because maybe hate is what we need if we want something done. >> use of salem, ken -- raman santana, and cory wise group made into pariahs. and even though donald trump played a huge role in that, after their exoneration, even as president, trump refused to apologize for what he had done.

now, 34 years later, donald trump, donald trump is facing criminal charges in new york for a hush money scheme related to an alleged extramarital affair he had with a porn star. he is also being accused of rape by writer e. jean carroll whose says that he assaulted her in a department store in the 1990s. trump has denied both accusations, calling them a hoax, a lie, and a scam, but one of the new now exonerated five calls it karma. his name is youssouf salaam, and he has a message for the former president. 30 years ago, your full page ad in all caps, civil liberties and when an attack on our safety begins. now that you are being indicted and are facing criminal charges, i do not resort to hatred, bias, or racism, as you once did. instead rather i'm putting my faith in the judicial system to seek out the truth. i hope that you exercise your

cerebral liberties to the fullest, and that you get with the exonerated five did not get, the presumption of innocence and a fair trial. joining us now is youssef salaam, one of the exonerated five. he is also an author, a motivational speaker, and a candidate for city council in new york city's ninth district. youssef, and if i may, it is a pleasure to have you. i am glad to see you here, and what an extraordinary story you have. i -- you call it karma, i am impressed at the generosity of your spirit in this moment, given the fact that all of you are accused of, here donald trump is being used of rape, being accused of not playing by the rules, if you will, and you wish of nothing but a fair trial. can you talk to me about what it has been like to live through this particular moment post presidency, now with criminal indictments? >> first of all, thank you for having me. you know, it's the polar opposites that we are living in remind us what's at stake.

it reminds us that we are still living in an america thatd and t there are so many more. right now we live in the kaleidoscope of the men -- but there are haves and have-nots. there are attempts to make us make sure that we are comfortably poor, in a country that is a first class country. for black and brown folks have always been pushed back, almost relegated to second class citizenship. and, to me, it reminds me that miracles are still happening. that a story that was -- that made people the scum of the earth, they buried us alive, made us into seeds. we're not just us the five, it made us as a people, because

when they saw us, they look to the color of our skin and the judge just by it. and here we are 34 years later, and i couldn't help but think about what dr. king said. the arc of the moral universe. here we are 34 years later in the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. >> it is so powerful that you still have such a resolute belief in the concept of justice, given how you were wrongfully incarcerated, so much of your life was stolen from you. can you just talk me a little bit about that moment when you were wrongfully arrested and convicted, and you had donald trump taking out full page ads, calling for effectively you to be executed? >> that ad, if you will, was a whisper into the darkest enclaves of society. for society or someone to do to us what they had done to -- they published our names phone numbers and addresses in new york city's newspapers. we were 14, 15, and 16-year-old children. and they looked at us and said well, they did it, let's just do this. -- wrote in the papers awhile

later, a short while later, he writes well, one we just take the oldest one and hang him from a tree in central park? and, to be introduced to what i now call the american nightmare, when all i wanted was the american dream, all i wanted was to dream with my eyes wide open, get up and ride my skateboard and enjoy the same park -- >> be a child. >> all of that was taken from us. did you wonder why he directed so much hatred towards you? how did you unpack, if you could, why he found so much rage in your story in this moment, in this case? was it purely race? why do you think he became a target of so much anger? from him? >> unfortunately, this is the narrative in america. we became the modern-day

scarves burrow boys. i connected my case with emmett till because we all know what happened, and hear a young boy lost his life because they said he whistled. that was the most tragic of tragedies. they tried to cover that up, to get his mother was so courageous, they want the world to see what it done to her son. and when i think about our case, and i think about all of the players, some of this might be white supremacy, white male dominance. some of this might be racism one-on-one. but i think when you really dive deep into the -- you realize that the ability to take $85,000 of your own money, greenlight and added that was created not -- it had been in creation, and it was produced, signed, sealed, and delivered, two weeks after he recused, in many ways stealing our faith. 34 years later, here i am doing something with this platform that they gave me. 13 years after we were accused, the truth came out. and you would wonder, why did

the truth come out to the same fanfare that are supposed guilt got? 400 articles written about us within the first few weeks. everyone was seizing the opportunity to report this in such a way that seals our fate. that ensured that if we survived prison, we would have a social death. and a beautiful thing about this story is that it became a miracle. that we can look at it and say wow, if he did it, i can do it. >> and you are doing it. you are running for city council, you are a motivation -- us teacher, a motivational speaker, i don't want to call it a silver lining because what happened to you is so much more than a cloud, but it is a miracle. i feel so deeply honored that you are sharing your story on this program, and look forward to a lot more coverage of the successes of the exonerated five. thank you so much for your time.

>> my pleasure. >> good luck with everything. >> don't forget, on will be use if daca. this story is still being written, and that's the beautiful thing about it. >> it sure is, we'll be right back. t flows for up to zero leaks. and it flexes to fit all bodies, for up to zero feel. feel it yourself with always flexfoam. with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. mass general brigham -- when you need some of the brightest minds in medicine. this is a leading healthcare system with five nationally ranked hospitals, including two world-renowned academic medical centers. in boston, where biotech innovates daily and our doctors teach at harvard medical school and the physicians doing the world-changing research

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now it's time for the last word with jonathan capehart in for lawrence. good evening my friend. >> hey, good evening alex. great to see you, have a great weekend. >> you too. >> america, republicans are gaslighting you. it's only april, but america has already had 17 mass shootings. republicans want you to believe that most people aren't bothered by mass slaughter with military grade weapons. republicans want to believe that most people feel the solution is to arm more people in more places. republicans want you to believe that most