>> slowly, these stories are becoming to make headlines. now, we see, eyes are beginning to open, questions are beginning to be asked around the country. that is what happened in robert davis's case. >> one day in your life made a hell of a difference, didn't it? >> yeah. >> have you ever run into randy snead? >> if i was to see him walk down the street, i probably just keep walking because i don't really have anything to say to him, except, i told you so. i told you that i was innocent. >> so he was. so he is. >> that's all for this episode of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thanks for watching.

happy saturday. >> happy saturday. >> everybody. welcome to morning joe weekend, it was another busy week. >> crazy week. >> well, this week, on monday it felt like it should've been friday. there was a major shake up. >> it felt like it should've been thursday. >> on fox news, president biden officially launching his reelection campaign. we'll get into all of that, plus some of the week's other top stories, take a look. the new york times has new reporting on fox's firing of tucker carlson. two sources tell the times a day before the start of the dominion defamation trial against the network. the fox sport of directors and top executives learned about private messages sent by carlson that had been redacted in legal filings. according to the sources, the redacted material contained highly offensive and crude remarks that went beyond the inflammatory, often racist comments of his primetime show and anything disclosed in the lead up to the trial. >> well, go ahead.

let's dissect what's so important. >> meanwhile, the wall street journal reports that in one of the redacted messages, carlson called a senior -- a crude and massage in a stick slur, like the worst one ever. several people with knowledge of fox's discussion told the times that the messages were a catalyst for rupert and loughlin murdaugh to sever ties with the host of their highest rated and highly profitable primetime program. >> let me add something here really quickly. i saw a clip from this weekend, bill maher, this past week. he actually was reading some of the text messages, and he read the ones that came out where tucker carlson cult the head of fox news, a woman, the sea word, which i noticed -- in the united states, you just

don't say it. it's different culturally in britain, but we won't get into that conversation. here, it is as bad as it gets. i notice that even if bill maher's harden audience, they were gaffes throughout the crowd. i thought, my gosh, he's saying this, this is out. this is shocking even to this crowd. i remember saying, i don't know if he's going to survive all of this. and she agreed. >> yeah, i mean, so two things. one, it's very shocking at it was used in the context of his boss, which is a very senior executive at the company, which is incredibly disrespectful, rude and down tactics, if you work for that network. i think as an indication, or wasn't indication to rupert and loughlin about tucker's belief that he was bigger than the network he was working for, which is clearly not the case. no one is too big to be pushed

out in a cable news network. and then it was, also, the other messages which shows the kind of work environment and the attitude that existed in that work environment from -- downwards to women, and more generally, that made it a toxic work environment. just post me too, that kind of work environment is not acceptable anymore. we've seen that at fox as well with the departure of bill o'reilly, having to go. the bullying of that kind of nature's post me too, post work environment thing that's not allowed. he was read to his bosses and he had a work environment that was not acceptable -- he made the decision he had to go. >> and on the bill maher show, he was calling another woman that in those texts, cindy powell. and then we find out he was also talking about his boss, suzanne scott. and then the lawyers came to him and said, hey, i think we

can have this redacted. and he said i don't want to redacted, that's how i feel about it. i want people to know how i feel about her. and so for everybody out there, it will not everybody, there are a few people out there, but some that are loyalists and trumpists, who were shocked and sun and deeply saddened think this is part of some great conspiracy, there's not a corporation in america, there is not a company in america where a worker can say that about a female boss and survive. not one, there is no conspiracy theory here. this is just, this is something that would literally get you fired anywhere in the united states. >> what's interesting, to, is they reporting repeatedly after tucker had been let go from fox. this had nothing to do with the dominion settlement, that it wasn't about the $787 million that they had. it may not have been about what he was saying on the air, though, i still think that was part of it.

that discovery that came out in that lawsuit, in that case, did, ultimately, according to all the sources, result in his firing. was everything that came to light around john, his dominion case, all the discovery, the text, the emails, from tucker and others, that appears, ultimately, led to him being fired. >> a raft of these emails and text messages, some of whom we don't know what's in there yet. they were redacted fox notes, their lawyers know. we don't know. it became untenable. certainly, there is a belief, there's other subplots here that we haven't quite learned yet, but to the point, just these messages is enough to get you fired. >> and there might be more. tucker carlson did make up an appearance last night, he tweeted a video, his first words since his dismissal. he didn't have much to say in terms of news, he didn't address the fox archway shun. he just said to hear more from me soon, and are dictated for educated political debate. he made no comment, he made no

remarks about his current dismissal. >> i understand that the word used in those text messages is similar to like, one or two other words that you just don't use in america, let alone the american workplace. at the same time, women are babies, that's not the reason, it can't be the only reason. tucker carlson was fired, when you look at all the other things he has said, also things on television that were syrup in this lawsuit, and are going to be stirred up in lawsuits to come. i think about, even, just blatant lies about january 6th, which, you know, is as stunning as the word that was used. you know, i think the focus on the slur against women, were not babies, i think it's terrible, it's horrible to say that word. just horrible. there were 20, 000, i mean, that's an exaggeration, but a

lot of things that he said on the air that i find, and that members of the journalistic community find absolutely like an assault on our democracy. you have to wonder, was that the tipping point? >> i think so, i think it was a combination. i think most of us would agree to this. it's been a combination of many things that the text that came out, where he was basically ridiculing his audience by, you know, saying one thing on the air and saying something else off the air. the judgment, the lawsuit coming up with the producers that have something like 90 recorded messages. i think that, where she's alleging a lot of antisemitic remarks. i think it's just an awful lot. on top of that, you have somebody taking pride in throwing slurs at the person that runs the network.

now, that probably is a tipping point, but that's one of many, many things. >> we'll continue to follow it, it's sort of an earthquake in tv news for sure, but also, sort, of the impact on politics and what happens next at fox and the lawsuit, not only by the producer, happy grossberg, but i think it's two other. >> it's a big, big story. >> coming up, disney sues florida governor ron desantis, claiming retaliation for exercising its free speech rights. morning joe economic analyst, steve rattner is here to show, why desantis is viewed with one of his states largest employers could backfire. >> d backfire >> there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you.

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that loose lawsuit filed by business. the governor sued ron desantis

yesterday, and watching desantis and other officials committing constitutional violations during a campaign of government retaliation. >> that sounds about right, actually. >> it came minutes after a board, which was appointed by the governor to oversee disney 's district voted to pass a resolution that transferred some of what this new world self governing power to the state. the federal civil suit argues, desantis's actions are part of a quote, relentless campaign to weaponize government power over the company. >> what is now former treasury secretary -- >> treasury secretary? >> -- the guy who saved the car industry, but, you know, it's important that that was the neck title, the most important. morning joe economic analyst. you put that -- >> steve rattner joins us. >> they love that title --

i love rattner's charts. look at those charts! give us a sweep of the whole thing if you will. >> you thought disney was a powerful brand, it's got nothing out rattner's charts. nothing. >> that's great. >> steve, take us to your charts this morning. >> sure, we'll see kornacki would be jealous of my charts, although i can't draw them -- a lot bigger than his, anyways. >> it's true. >> let's start with how important disney's. you guys talked a little bit about it at the top of the show, let me put some numbers behind that for you. disney is the third largest private employer in the state of florida, although the largest at a signal site, which it has, of course, in orlando. you can see it as here, about 75,000 employees at its parks in orlando area, and is said to be responsible for as many as 450,000 jobs in total in the area. but also, besides the fact that

it's such a big employer, it also pays a relatively well. businesses minimum pay is $18 an hour, walmart, $14, publix, $11. these are good jobs, reasonably good jobs. they're not millionaires, but these are reasonably good jobs for all the people in the state of florida, and so you wonder why desantis would bite the hand that is in fact, feeding him. it's also feeding him in terms of -- disney, in 2022 -- i mean, florida had almost 140 million visitors i which 50, 000, roughly, we believe, went to disney world and it is a huge part of florida tourism. lastly, disney phase, not surprisingly, a huge amount of taxes. they pay one point $1 million directly to the state of florida and to local communities and taxes. again, by outside estimates, and oxford analytics study, the total tax revenues to the state and local governments in

florida from disney related activities, 4.7 billion dollars. disney is a huge economic force in florida, and again, you wonder why desantis would take on his biggest economic asian. >> it's insanity, and the people in the republicans, and the democrats, they may not like him or like him, but disney is the biggest driver of the economy in florida. steve, going through next chart, this entire fight, at least what desantis says it is anyway, it's about the special district that is, it's not uncommon in florida, but disney has the biggest one. what is that exactly and why does governor desantis want to take it away? >> right, here's what the fight is all about. back in 1965, when disney came to florida, it said, we don't want to be like l.a.. we have a park, and we don't control anything around it, we end up with a lot of seedy motels and fast food restaurants. they made a deal with the state of florida, which is as you say, not uncommon. they control is 39 square mile area. this is a city of orlando, --

and this is disney. they have a board, had a board of five people that's a care of all the water, the fire, the building codes supervision and they paid for it. and then desantis came along when he got mad at them and said, we're going to take this away from you, and essentially make another city or county in the state of florida. then, desantis realize he will have to pay for all the stuff, and so he backed off that and said okay, i'm not going to do that. instead, i'm going to appoint this board and i'm going to take over control of this district. he appointed a board, and then disney turned around and put a bunch of agreements in place before support took effect, that essentially limited the ports ability to do anything that disney didn't want them to do. then, the port came along and essentially try to avoid those agreements. that's where the lawsuit came in. and disney said, enough, and they sued them under the first

amendment, basically saying that by going after disney, because they had said some things about the don't say -- that violated their first amendment, and they were entitled to take control of that. as you said, this is not unusual in florida. the villages, which is a big retirement community that politicians regularly stop at has a special district. daytona speed -- has a special district. it's not all that extraordinary, and disney was a great corporate citizen that desantis just decided he wanted to take on in a stupid fight. >> it would be interesting enough, governor desantis also wants to take away the special district, privilege as the villages and the daytona. >> let's go to your last feeds . it appears governor desantis is doing it, even with his donors because disney has given to florida republicans. >> yeah, that's the other really strange thing here. you might think of disney as a left lane kind of company, but in fact, and for obvious good

reasons, from their business standpoint, they happen, mostly, giving the money to republicans. you can see it going all the way back to 2002, all this red. this is money that disney has given to florida republicans, both candidates and >> -- and then this blue down here, the small blue bars down here, disney has given to democrats. just a few million dollars to democrats and many millions of dollars to republicans, including desantis. we don't know exactly how much desantis has granted because a lot of this money went from tax and things, but obviously -- why disney did it, florida is controlled by republicans for 20 years. here's another amusing saying, which is in 2022, after the started under divers predecessor, van schaffer, disney basically soft alter disney -- on the political side, as well as this terrible reputation all saying. look, as joe said, a couple times in the earlier segment,

taking on bob iger is not the smartest thing anyone has done. bob is incredibly, not just a capable executive, but has great political skills and basically attacked desantis being anti business, and turning the whole thing around and turning it on desantis, which i thought, particularly, was a clever way to handle it. desantis, i think, has taken on more than he can fight off. >> no doubt about it, and bob iger is such a successful businessman, and also such a successful political thinker -- i think four years he's had democrats and other people who wanted to run as a democrat, or as an independent for president or for governor or for any position because again, he's great at what he does. , so, yeah, see runner, as alwa, thank you so much. and you know, it's so interesting that you have steve

talking about the -- disney back in time 1965 when they're setting this up in florida, wanting to have the special district, because he didn't want to have seedy motels, they didn't want fast food restaurants right next to their theme park and all their other attractions. what does rhonda santa say, last week? that he might even put a prison right next to disney. >> yeah, i mean, it's a poke in the ire of disney that is particularly unnecessary. what's going to happen to the tourists? which is ron desantis think that does two families coming choose a disney theme park with their kids, if what they're driving past is some kind of maximum security prison on their way in. it's not the most inviting route to go and see your princess or mickey mouse, right? it just seems to make no sense, and understandably, you've now got nikki haley, chris christie saying, hey, you don't want to

have disney, we're very happy to welcome -- we won't go to prison on the front door either. >> you know, you wonder, i mean, this seems like he shooting himself in the foot, maybe he will go after formula 1 and the others. it's just so politically seems like malpractice, let's just put it that way. >> coming up, joe biden officially launches his reelection campaign, pledging to finish the job, but some of his biggest hurdles so this time around our a panel of all-stars. they really are all starts. no red sox on these teams, they weigh in next. weigh in next. ♪ these are the people, who help you stay well. ♪ ♪ searching lower prices, ♪ ♪ and brands you love on the shelves. ♪ behind the counter, or in the aisles, healthier's better when it happens together. cvs pharmacy. healthier happens together. have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture.

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that was part of the video released this morning, announcing president joe biden's reelection campaign. what do you make of the presidents video released at 6 am this morning? it seemed, in a way, very normal. >> yes, that's the brand, right? normalcy is the brand. joe biden has a talent -- knows how to make a good add. if you think back at the as a rat in 2020, they were really strong piece of political communication. this is a really song piece of political communication. you can see him being not just normal, but there's a lot of joe biden and motion. and there's a lot of forward motion. >> and great takeaways. this is the job, i know america. i know it's history. i know the people, and kamala harris. >> also, that this is not a nation -- >> and that i'm a man who's been doing stuff, and has more to do. that sort of the underlying

thing that's of dealing with, this notion of americans naturally uncomfortable with the notion of an octogenarian president? there is that image of, i'm getting stuff done, i moving forward, and i could get more stuff done in the future, i have more to do, and it's in my sights. that's a good message for them. >> -- being made about his age? somebody yesterday, and investor coming up and say, joe biden should say, if warren buffett had quit when he was 82, there are a lot of people that wouldn't have made millions and millions and millions of dollars because buffett had one of his best decades in his 80s. there are a lot of different arguments like that. i guess, does just not matter that these first couple of years, does it matter to voters in these first couple of years, he was extraordinarily successful legislatively on one bipartisan legislation. does that does not matter

anymore? do you actually, when you get in office, you actually know what you're doing. >> clearly, it does matter, and it mattered among other things, it mattered in the -- a lot of biden's accomplishments. it matters. i do think that, you know, the reality that's out there for a lot of people's, that a lot of people know, a lot of people have grandparents. and people recognize that this job is incredibly challenging, stressful job. physically, mentally, emotionally, psychically, in every way. everyone has a grandparent in their 80s, everyone knows what they all are, not what they once were. and, so you see it come through the pole. it's not an irresolvable conflict with joe biden, but he has to make arguments like that. it is a thing, it's not just a republican thing, democrats, overwhelmingly, has the same concerns. again, they're not dispositive, they're not fatal, but there are things that are going to be one of the things joe biden, implicitly and explicitly, is going to have to address, because people, again, across parties want to make sure that

a guy who's in his 80s is up to the job. that's going to be i think they're going to be confronting for now all the way to election day, i imagine. >> the white house also told me yesterday that it will be critical that joe biden seems like he wants to do this, and he's excited to do this. that he's eager to do this. that he's not just doing it as a default position because he has to stop donald trump again. there has to be joy in this battle for joe biden, and right now, some of the white house are just afraid that he's doing it out of a sense of duty to stop donald trump, and that's fantastic. it doesn't translate as well on the campaign trail as saying, darn it, i don't want to do this, i'm excited to do this, i'm excited we're together, we're going to take america. >> let's remember, this will be a very different campaign. this is a practical question it was four years ago. he's running in 2020, where he could, because of the pandemic. make the case that he would be home. he had to be home, he couldn't be out and be with crowds.

can't make that argument anymore. this will be a strenuous campaign, he will be out on the campaign trail over the next year and a half. not immediately, he will be out raising money for his before he goes out into the country. this will be a very different campaign for him, now four years older than it was in 2020. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent, mike normally with more on this. mike, you covered president biden for a decade or so, probably more than that at this point. what was the story behind the launch, the timing of his, and the message we heard when it rolled out this morning? >> well, willie, this was never in doubt, right? didn't matter how many times president biden has said, since the midterm election, especially, that he intended to run for reelection. there was still this era of mystery around his plans before his campaign video pop this morning at 6 am. there were some really interesting takeaways from that video. the first that struck me was that four years ago, president biden put donald trump front and center. he warned about what former years of trump in the white

house would mean to the fundamental character of his country and said this was a battle for the soul of the nation. in this video, this morning, it's clear that trump is, trump -ism, if not trump himself is still a threat to our freedom, the values of this country. one of the most fastening moments comes 36 seconds in, where we see donald trump in the half embrace was what desantis. it shows biden adviser saying, even if it's not trump ultimately on the ballot, it will be someone very much like him. the second takeaway is, you mentioned, vice president harris. she, by our count, is in this video 11 times. in 2012, president obama's announcement video didn't once include vice president biden at the time. it really does show the fact that the republicans have really made kamala harris front and center for their attacks, already. nikki haley, for instance, in her announcement talked about joe and kamala. joe and kamala over and over again. the biden team really does want to put the vice president front and center, and we're going to see her play a big role on what they think is going to be one of the major issues of this

campaign, which is abortion rights. vice president have nurali on that today. and last, the speaks to my length of time, covering joe biden, is he, since he first ran for senate in 1972, has had a very clear idea of what he thinks the government is about and what the democratic party should be about. we're seeing this video, and we're going to hear a lot of the months ahead. about what that looks like. biden advisor said he will clearly run on his legislative accomplishments. this is all about his vision for glueing growing the middle class. >> coming up, chief justice john says he will not testify at the senate hearing on supreme court essex. member of the judiciary committee, senator cory booker has a lot to say about that, next. about that, next how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪

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chief justice john roberts has declined an invitation to testify at the senate's hearing next week on supreme court ethics. this, despite new revelations that justice clarence thomas received trips and gifts, extensive ones, from a republican megadonor for years. we talked to senator cory booker, a member of the judiciary committee about justice roberts decision. >> i've read it hid stores

closely, the reason why he talked about being a very rare thing for chief justice to come before the juice committee. and i agree. it's a very rare thing, when the united states of america, when our citizen -- to see judges acting in ways that are so extreme, and so out of line with what we think would be basic ideas of ethics. we have a court now in crisis, and this is, again, not a partisan issue. we see the supreme court at its lowest ever polling in terms of people doing it with legitimacy. and, god, i do not think when i first was elected to the senate that so much of the work we would be doing would be focusing on how to protect our democracy and our democratic institutions. we cannot allow our court to further lose its legitimacy, and we have an obligation to address these issues. it should be done in an open form in the hearing. this is the highest court in

the land, and the only court that does not have a written code of ethics. we see things that are happening right now, that are so out of line with what most americans believe should be decency. and i'll say this. we are lawyers, know about the appearance of impropriety's. when you read the stories on the face of it, and they all seem profoundly improper. >> they do. senator, they seemed improper, i think, if it's a federal judge as opposed to a supreme court judge, it might be worse. so, what's the next step? does the committee just stop asking questions and turn away, or is there some way to look at what has happened here and consider, i don't know, consequences? what do you think should be next? >> i think we should hold a hearing regardless of his present. it's unfortunate we wouldn't have this dialogue with him,

but there are still a lot of issues that we can bring forward in a judiciary hearing that could be important to the public dialogue. i hope it can inspire people, senators, who are not concerned about this court, but are concerned about the court for the years to come. we have a crisis here, we need to do things to make sure that our highest court in the land, in many ways, is holding to the highest ethical standards. >> of course, to follow up on what the senator said, confidence in the united states supreme court is at historic lows. >> i know. >> and for good reasons. we've been talking about these financial issues. you also had to talk about, senator, january the 6th and ginni thomas. and clarence thomas being a sole dissenter in a case that involve things that his wife was actively engaged in. the suggestion that she said in emails that she was

communicating with her, quote, best friend, clarence thomas. again, while we were talking about matters involving, well, the protection of american democracy, or is there just no mines anymore in the supreme court? are there no as occult lines there anymore when it comes, especially, to clarence thomas? >> there can't be this, sort of, shamelessness, where people feel that they are in power and beyond report. we are not an autocratic nation. we are not an authoritarian nation. we are democracy that is supposed to have checks and balances. no one is above the law, no one is above the three branches working as our founders intended. for him not, on an issue of this severity, that is every day further impinging on the reputation of the court, at a time that we need to be strengthening democratic institutions, i'm really, just

deeply appalled that the justice won't come and have this kind of dialogue. won't find a form in which we can start getting to the bottom of these matters, hear more clearly what we can do to address them together. >> all right, democratic senator cory booker of new jersey, thank you very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. >> coming up, a new series tells the true story of the woman who helped to hide and frank and her family during the nazi occupation of the netherlands. bell poly and we have strider here to tell us about that new show. morning joe is coming right back. g righ back card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential,

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is dangerous. if you get caught, you could get arrested, or even worse. i need your help hiding my family. you need to take your time to think it through. >> no, i don't. what do i do? >> that's a preview of a small light, national geographic's new limited series about the true story of -- who helped to hide and frank and her family during world war ii. joining us now is liev schreiber who plays auto frank in the series and bel powley who portrays -- it's great to see you both, welcome. >> thank you. >> let's, for our audience, everyone is well versed in the story of anne frank, we think. what we don't know the entire back story. who is meat keats and why is she so instrumental in the story the public now knows about and frank and her family? >> she was the auto secretary, they met in 1933, and she became a friend of the family. this was in amsterdam. in 1942 --

not occupation, auto asked her to hide him and his family in the secret addicts, without hesitation, she said yes, of course. she then provided them with food and kept them safe for the next four years, and then unfortunately, when they were sadly captured by the nazi's, she was responsible for finding ancillary and preserving it and giving it to acho when he returned from the camps. >> she is a reason that the world has the story of and frankly. dire and frank was preserved by her -- who you play, who asked her to keep watch over the family for two years. a very long time at great risk, obviously, to herself. >> i think one of the things that's extraordinary to this program and that john and tony have created, is that finding new ways to tell the stories again, finding fresh perspectives. i think they done a really good job, meet, who's a sort of powerful characters and diary

is, without her the diary wouldn't exist -- who wasn't even jewish, the risk that she took, and the sacrifices that you made to keep this family alive and safe for almost two years is extraordinary. >> the phrase that was permanent in the cliff that we just played, i need your help. it's astounding when you think about history, or even today, the number of times that freeze was used in this period of time. i need your help. that went unanswered. that's such a critical component of, -- >> it's a reason i took the job. it really feels like the right story, now. what's going on in the world and how divisive we come. who would've thought that we'd be, in our time, a ground war in europe and living through geopolitically what we're living through now. it felt like a story, like

story. immediately willing to say yes to helping someone else. they're -- >> so much the world, even perhaps in this country, there is a slippery slope, people losing freedoms, losing democracies, being swept up in manias that led, this is obviously what happened here, the most horrific example of that. do you feel like this is a cautionary tale, that much more important to remind people of what could happen. >> absolutely, and there are so many parallels of what was happen in the 40s to what's going on now. we're living through the biggest refugee crisis, for example. the world has ever seen. the franks were refugees, they were kicked out of jurnee -- germany. was miep gies a refugee herself, she was from vienna. also you know, antisemitism is on the rise. there was just too many parallels, and that's why it's really important to ask that we make this story and these characters feel very relate-able, so people feel very connected to it.

we didn't want to present it and it feels like a dusty sepia tone version of history, and telling people to facts we already know. that's why it's useful to use miep gies because she is an incredibly relate-able character. she's just an ordinary woman. she never wanted to be put on a pedestal, she never wanted to be called a hero, and i think that's important to remember, that there is a bit of us all in her. >> and yet we see, they today, the heroism. >> let's take another look at the clip. these are the links taken to help the frank family get those basic necessities over more than two years. >> the government is very strict these days. we have to account for everything. >> yes, of course. >> they want to make sure we're not, what's the word they use? aiding those that have chosen to flout the law and go into hiding. >> i mean, she's not, she's a client. she is not hiding. >> well, i suppose we can spare

a few. >> that's very scrawny, not you, the chicken. you look very, very healthy. and i wonder if i can have a chicken that looked a bit more like you. a little bit more meat on it, perhaps. lovely. oh, could you spare a few more. my nephews are visiting. my mother's cough just won't quit. doctors say it could be pneumonia. it's really, really difficult, but we soldier on, don't we. >> we're, a little extra trees for your for mother. >> as we see there, it's a high to risk a delicate dance that was taken over two years. to pull this off and to protect the frank family.

what were some of the close calls that they had and how hard was it for her to keep this up for so long? >> i think it was incredibly hard, she had to lie to her whole family. you couldn't tell anyone. you aren't even meant to tell your husband if you are doing it, if you are hurting people. obviously, her husband, played by joe cold, he winded ended up worrying for the resistance and they were very close in the situation. yeah, it must have been so troubling, leading this double life, lying to your family, but that was what you had to do to keep these people safe. >> we know -- we've done some work was ukrainian -- just come from the country there, just trying to lend a helping hand, just tell us a bit about the importance of what you're trying to do. >> well, i think, it's basically a passive for people who want to support humanitarian aid in ukraine.

i think, for me, just using whatever i have to remind people that the war is still happening's popularity and support for it, wanes and rises, it's important to remember that these are real life situations for real people. i think a small light was a great reminder for me, a great way of sharing the humanity. i think they spent a lot of time, what bel powley does such a beautiful job with, making a person, a person coming of age, who's in this romantic relationship and is turning and whose life is interrupted by war, i think it's just important to remember what that's like, and what the cost of that is. i thought tony and joan and bel did an extraordinary job with a. >> you continued to do extraordinary work with ukraine, and i know you're going back soon. this is really such a brilliant series. as smollett premiers this money and not pm eastern on national

geographic with new episodes debuting every monday, and will stream the next day on disney+. liev schreiber and bel powley congratulations on the series, thanks for being here. >> buckle up, we have another hour of morning joe weekend. your saturday's, you'll never be the same. we'll be right back. back.

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weekend. let's add right into another look at this week's top stories. >> i'm just a simple country lawyer but i would think that an attorney in new york city would not be screaming at a woman who was saying his client raped her. and time and time again, as carol was telling the jury this reflects dory about how she was raped. joe tacopina o was berating her, yelling at her, the judge repeatedly had to call him off. it is -- this trial involving a possible rape not going well for donald trump. >> well yeah, the accounts from

inside the courtroom from the people who there yesterday is that joe tacopina, familiar figure because he is representing don trump was effectively harassing carroll on the sand as she told the story of what she says happened to her in the 1990s. that dressing room don trump. the judge finally stopping her to admonish or and say hey, you will have time to make a closing argument, now is not the time for that. him chiming in and interrupting carroll throughout in a way that the judge thought was argumentative. by most accounts it was pretty ugly in the courtroom yesterday. >> nor are you a mediocre like me, perhaps you can verify for our friends at home not good to yell at somebody who could've been a rape victim on the stand. >> i've cross-examined victims like this, it is really, really difficult. you have to be very careful. it is one thing to cross examine a cooperating witness,

someone who is a criminal testifying against another criminal, then you can lay on the fireworks. when you cross examine a victim of sexual assault, you have to be extra careful. you still have to explore things like their ability to perceive, their memory, whether or not they're motivated by something else. and of course in this case, it is often thing to talk about. you have to explore why she took so long to report this. we know now that victims of sexual assault often it never reported because of a fear of reprisal. >> it is pretty easy. she was scared. >> sure. what is the percentage of women who are victims of sexual assault, sexual abuse, rape, that will not respond because they don't want to go up on the stand and be abused by the rapists attorney. >> there was so little incentive for women to put things and go on the stand. there are so many questions of judgment surrounding donald

trump's choice to attack his accuser in this process. number one danny, why doesn't he have a female lawyer? >> now the good strategy, you're absolutely right. >> in a civil case, you don't have to, but my theory here is that trump is essentially conceding this battle. he knows that he already had a deposition. that's when you sit down, you are under oath, and you have a wide range interview but you're locked in your testimony. the way trump's team probably sees it, far better to take my deposition if i'm not there, show the jury the video, even p. that is far preferable than me taking the stand in open court and letting a plaintiffs attorney take shots at me. if that means he loses the civil case, fine. he probably thinks he is losing a battle. in his mind, winning a political war. >> you know what you can't cherry pick, you can cherry-pick the access hollywood tape.

that reveals what his attitude has been towards women. of course, i think that is one of the reasons that he didn't want to be in there because he was going to have to confront his own words, he's gonna have to confront his own actions. again, right now, think about it, we talked about all these other cases. this may be a civil case. this is a case involving donald trump ripping somebody. raping somebody. we talk about payoff supports, this is a case where he has been accused of rape. he is not even showing up. his lawyer is screaming at the possible rape victim. it is not going well. >> it is not going well. access hollywood, that tape is admissible, it can be used in this trial, therefore it likely will be used in this trial by terrell's lawyers. the tone, i'm curious how you think about this, the standard is different.

the tone from joe yesterday was, why didn't you scream if this was so bad, why did he scream? >> she said i was terrified, i did know to do, all the things that rape victims are often harassed about. we heard that in the courtroom yesterday, what is the bar here for a civil judgment unlike a criminal child? >> it is preponderance of the evidence, it is the only burden of proof that can be expressed mathematic we have isabel doubt. it is high standard, is a criminal standard, as lawyers like me will argue in closing, it is such a high standard. it doesn't mean beyond all doubt, it just means if you hesitate, we might when you are looking at the house or something like that. a preponderance of the evidence could basically be 51% because it is more likely than not. or it is more accurately 50 point 00 1%. whatever tips the needle one way or another. it is a much lesser burden, much easier to make out. that is why so many civil cases

settle. defendants know that they're facing a very difficult burden and they would rather manage that risk and end up paying money they know they can quantify today rather than just some runaway juries of verdict later on in the future. we have to spend more money appealing it. the burden here is much later. you know, i have to say, the tone maybe could have been changed, a defense attorney in a case like this, whether it's criminal or civil, because this really mirrors a criminal case, he asked to explore the credibility of the victim on cross examination. he has to do it. now, the way you do it, you have to be nuanced. you have to be polite, you have to be respectful of the witness. that is the key. if you don't, the jury is gonna see that and they are not going to like it. it's a needle that you have to thread. i gotta tell you, it is hard to thread that needle. i've done it myself, i don't know if i've done successfully, but it is hard. >> and rev, you know the

attorney very well, he didn't thread any needle yesterday, he just kind of kicked open the barn door and went out. >> i was surprised at how aggressive he was. as particularly given, he knows hesitate on this, he just grabbed him. if you want to indict yourself, just play the tape. >> and he's laughing about that. he's admitting that. >> he's obstructing and instructing somebody how to this. >> is how you do this. >> this is not joe's best day. >> micah, also some news with mike pence. he ended up testifying after all of the twists and turns and the fading couches, the protesting too much. he testified, he always knew is going to testify. >> exactly, it was before a federal grand jury. investigating the january 6th insurrection. this is according to a source familiar with the matter. this is the grand jury that was

convened by special counsel jack smith investigating former president donald trump's efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss and stay in power. two black suvs entered the courthouse garage around 9 am yesterday, and interest that would allow witnesses to head up to the grand jury rooms without being seen by the public. the suvs left the courthouse about 4:30 pm. nbc news has learned special counsel jack smith's team is particularly interested in trump's efforts to try to block the certification of the election. joe, i guess the negativity in me would say why would he want to testify about something so important? if you follow mike pence, there might be a lot of things that you think are a little bit, why did he serve for trump for so long? what was his motivation. at the same time, if it was his commitment to the country,

isn't his commitment to the country also to testify about this? >> listen, he had to know. his lawyers had to tell him from the very beginning, we could have told him, you're going to testify. you look at every one of these issues, the supreme court has -- they've been brushing aside assertions of privilege from the very beginning. they are not going to stand in the way of any investigation regarding the january 6th. they, again, 60 to 64, these federal judges, even federal judges who were appointed by the federalist society didn't bite anyone the lies regarding the widespread election fraud. they are just not playing. so pence knew this, but he looks like the witness for the republican primary voters. he knew he is going to have to go there. david, you're the one with all the great doj sources. come on, spiller i hear. what are they doing, where they're going, i know a lot of people are, like claire says,

delayed, is justice denied? i understand this gender sixth case is very complicated. it doesn't seem like that obstruction case is so complicated on the documents? talk about the doj's pacing of their investigations? >> i think it is picked up a lot under jack smith. the most important january six witness in terms of trump's mindset, his intent is mike pence. they had all of these conversations, did trump knowingly pressured him to overturn the results of the election? did he know or should he have known that this was illegal? this was a big step forward. i'm glad pence did this, i think he deserves credit for winning on january 6th. there is talk of, the obstruction case is a very clear case. you could see jack smith doing something and making a decision this summer maybe. >> it's gonna be a busy summer. >> it's gonna be a very busy summer. but he's got to be very aggressive on all of these fronts. >> still ahead on morning joe,

a fulton county district attorney has been investigating trump for alleged interference in the 2020 election. she is out with a new timeline for when we could see a possible indictment. you're watching morning joe, we will be right back. watching morning joe, w will be right back so it's decided, we'll park even deeper into parking spaces so people think they're open. surprise. [ laughs ] [ horn honks, muffled talking ] -can't hear you, jerry. -sorry. uh, yeah, can we get a system where when someone's bike is in the shop, then we could borrow someone else's? -no! -no! or you can get a quote with america's number-one motorcycle insurer and maybe save some money while you're at it. all in favor of that. [ horn honking ] there's a lot of buttons and knobs in here. meet the outdoorsies. all in favor of that. [ horn honking ] wayfair's outdoor deal experts. the gardener... goes to wayfair for gardening basics that... aren't so basic. the entertainer... her place might look expensive.

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this summer if former president donald trump will face charges in fulton county georgia investigation into possible election interference. fulton county district attorney fani willis said he will announce the decision on charging during the estate a superior court fourth term which begins on july 11th and ends on september 1st. there is your timeline. if charge, it would be the second criminal indictment of the former president, trump is

currently facing charges in manhattan of 34 counts of falsifying business records. he has pleaded not guilty in that case, he calls the georgia probe politically motivated. the new timeline comes from a letter from the district attorney to the fulton county sheriff asking the department to get ready for any potential response to her decision. a spokesperson for the d.a.'s office has declined to comment. what do you make of that? >> what i make is what clare said yesterday. justice delayed is justice denied. george conway, why don't you just wait and tell i can say -- maybe with flame goes up, the olympic torch, maybe she can drop it then. maybe she could wait until 2027, this is ridiculous. this call was made on january the 2nd of 2021. we had a grand jury, they came

back with multiple suggestions for indictments. she continues delay. again, what is the public that? first of all, they had all of the evidence for a really long time. secondly, the closer this comes to election season, the more political it looks, the more politicized it will be. i just again, i have absolutely no idea why this has not -- why this indictment has been dropped a long time ago. it is one of the most serious of the charges against donald trump, it appears to be, at least on the surface, one of the easiest to prove. >> well, i do agree that i would rather see the case sooner rather than later. i think it is not helpful to have these cases brought too close to the season, the election season. that being said, it is not quite as simple a case as you

have just made it out to be. if it were just about that one phone call, i would agree with you. that phone call i think was pretty damning evidence, raffensperger recorded about trump trying to coerce him into fond of exec ember votes. there's a lot of other things. the fake electors are a big issue. we have seen some papers recently that show that there may be some of those fake electors, they are flipping on one another. that is a big development, that is something that is worth pursuing. >> we already had a grand jury in georgia, i'm not exactly sure why they have a fake granary and then a real grand jury. it seems really bizarre. we had a grand jury, they're coming back, breaking news. okay, they are suggesting numerous indictments. the next day you are like, she doesn't have to follow that gradually. they have to have a real grand jury. it seems the positive.

it is taking an awfully long time. again, i understand, i understand you gotta build your case. my god, does it really take 27 months now? i just don't understand the delay. >> it is a really weird system in georgia that they're using where they have the grand jury to look into all of this and go through all the evidence. they make the recommendations, we have to bring in a whole other granary, presumably they don't have to go through as long as of a process with this degree. they can get to a conclusion pretty quickly. everybody else, yes, i'm frustrated. if it's going to happen, let it happen. let's get on with it. but i do take georgia's point about the fake electors and flipping others who know. they may be flipping, remember

where donald trump went on a flipping branch. that may be happening, that would make a much stronger case. and after all, he will have a strong case if you gonna charge the former president. >> coming up, a new poll finds a majority of motive voters don't want them trump back in office. we are going to dig into those numbers with our panel next. hose numbers with our panel next. numbers with our panel next. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

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don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good. next on behind the series... that performance was legendary. they just piled it on. roast beef, ham, oven roasted turkey. all on the subway club. three peat - that's great. three meat - that's epic. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. >> i had frankel me last night, these polls of trump. she's a supporter of trump. look at this. this is what he showed me, the don -- among republicans, -- >> we talked a little bit about this yesterday. >> there you go. >> in republicans. >> now he thought, let's just see this, he thought that this

would do this. and people who want democrats to win into a spiral. i said dude, you don't understand. you think but that democrats are still scared of donald trump. no, they want him to win. you think you are owning the libs, you are only making lives as comfortable as if you are smoking a big bong in your front yard playing hockey sack wearing a shaky vera he shirt. this is what they want, this is the natural order of things because look at this next poll from the same group. do you want trump to be president again? look at the independent numbers. i'm not exactly sure when it

happened, but at some point donald trump went from being the big, bad wolf for liberals and making them curl up in a fetal position under their desks. they didn't even have the energy to go out and play hockey sack on the front yard. at some point, it went from there to now where they are happy when he does well in republican polls because they know that it means they are going to win. they are not owning the lips, they are saying here you go libs, here is the white house for four more years. >> whatever nerves progressives and democrats may have about joe biden running for reelection, they massaged when they think about oh, hopefully it will be down trump on the other side. obviously, they want trump to be present again. they believe that they beat imbalance and can beat him again because of the very

numbers you're showing right there. you cannot win a national election with 29% support among independents. maybe that changes over the next year and a half, there's a lot of road ahead of us, a lot of things can change. but you just cannot win a general election, a national general election with 29% votes. by the way, the republican numbers is where he used to be. 27% of republicans may be looking around a little bit saying, i don't want this guy to be president. they've taken a waiver on him once or twice. i don't want to do it again. i think you're right joe to focus on that independent number. that is where presidential elections are won and lost. >> that second poll was a poll. jonathan amir, again, i know there are many democrats concerned about joe biden, they think he is too old, they don't think he can do this, -- you just go. i keep saying it, this election is not going to be one. i want to get our the panelists to talk about this. the election is not one across

50 states. it is literally one in the suburbs of atlanta. that will never, and i never say never, will never go for donald trump again. the suburbs of philadelphia, that will never, ever go for go trump in 2024. the suburbs of detroit, that will never go for donald trump. wisconsin, never. donald trump, if nominated, he rebuilds that blue wall that we kept talking about during the obama era. that blue wall that republicans would never be able to break. why am i saying this so much at six in the morning in april of 2007? because we know, the die is cast when it comes to donald trump. same thing with arizona. the guy can't win there. a lot of these races were close,

they have broken against him and he has become a radicalized. you look at these numbers, the very numbers, jonathan, that he should have been building up, he has been tearing them down. the damage is complete now. >> he won in 2016, using the top of the vote, but he won because he was able to switch enough voters in the blue states, pennsylvania, wisconsin, but michigan's. those independent, those swing voters. and some disaffected democrats who perhaps voting against hillary clinton but cited, let's give you guys a chance here. let's try for change, some of those voters, that do as you say, traditionally decide elections, some of them broke for trump. enough for them broke for trump in 16 that he won that day. those voters broke hard against him in 2020 because of his handling of the pandemic, because of his mismanagement, frankly, the controversial headlines that he doesn't you every day. the theory of the case here, certainly from the white house, from democrats that i spoke to,

is that they have a really, really hard time seeing those voters breaking back to trump in 24. polling right there bears that out, they are not going to give trump, and likely other republicans that chance considering how their positions are only growing more extreme on things like abortion and guns and schools and the like. that is a race. if the trump rematch of the white house, it feels really confident about it. it also negates the age issue said trump is only a couple of years younger than biden. it gets more complicated if the republicans come to the senses, let's say, and nominate someone else. it gets more complicated. right now, if it's biden trump, the white house loves their chances. >> coming up, there is new concern this morning that afghanistan is once again becoming a terrorist safe haven. we will be joined by a former state department official who is on the ground in kabul during the chaotic u.s. pull out. you're watching morning joe, we will be right back. you're watching morning joe, w will be right back will be right back permission to dig in?

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the 2500 troops. that is the lowest since 2001. he inherited a special immigrant visa code that had been starved of resources. he inherited a deal struck

between the previous administration and the taliban that called for the complete removal of all u.s. troops. while it was always the presidents intend to end that war, it is also undeniable that decisions made and the lack of planning done by the previous administration significantly limited options available to him. >> national security council coordinator for strategic communications at the white house john kirby speaking earlier this month about a biden administration report that largely blames the trump white house for the united states chaotic withdrawal from afghanistan in august of 2021. a year and a half later, finger-pointing about that operation continues across both sides of the aisle. but now, for the first time ever, a u.s. diplomat who was on the ground in kabul is providing his detailed account of what happened during those treacherous days. joining us now, investigate

journalist and new york times bestselling author mitchell isikoff, his latest book is entitled the secret gate, a true story of courage and sacrifice during the collapse of afghanistan. also here is one of the subjects of the book, former state department political officer sam errands and who risked his life to evacuate at risk families from kabul. >> thank you for being with us. mitchell, this happened with lightning speed. the whole thing happened with lightning speed leading up to the frenzied withdrawal and then the chaos that enveloped the entire country in the days that followed. talk about how you capture that in this remarkable book. >> thank you joe. as you say, it was total chaos, remember the scene. there is men falling off wings of airplanes. women handing babies through barbed wire.

tens of thousands of men and women and children crushing against the walls of the afghan kabul airport. all of them are desperate to get up because they knew what was coming. the sudden arrival of the taliban meant that everything that they had enjoyed, all the freedoms that they had enjoyed for the past 20 years during the american involvement were about to end. the women were going to be kept from the streets, girls who can be kept from schools. the people who had cooperated and helped all of those years, they were at risk of death. and so everyone felt that we have got to get out. everyone showed up, tens of thousands of people at the gates to the airport. >> at about the chaos of ice, seeing this as an opportunity, even when we had the taliban at times working with us. they got us out of the country, it was ices of course who started detonating bombs outside the gate, creating those frenzied scenes that we

saw that led to the united states fleeing much more quickly and much more chaotically than anybody would've liked. >> that is exactly right. into the vacuum flowed the danger and that came in the form of an ice bomber. we have the tragic loss of 13 american servicemen and women and 170 or more afghan men women and children. >> sam, talk to us, if you will, about your experience, you are stationed over there and had right in the middle of that violence and chaos. tell us a little bit but what you saw. >> i came over right around the time of the evacuation started. it was complete chaos on arrival. the day prior to arriving, the hardest thing i had to deal with was finding a dachshund for my dog and then arriving in kabul immediately being taught how to how our cars, how are buses in case i needed to get people to safety. keeping a flash bang when it's

in my pocket in case we had to fight for our lives. but there were thousands of afghan women men and children who were seeking safety and i knew that i had to do more. >> tell us about this, we rescued more than 50 people in a single day. how did you get them to safety, what were those moments like for those that got out, but also about those who are left behind? >> the rules on the ground to necessarily match the reality that we are seeing. along with some colleagues from the state department, from cia, from military, we had to make the rules for the situation. we became aware of the secret on the outskirts of the airport that was outside of the airport. beyond no-man's-land, onto a major thoroughfare where there were market stalls, there was a gas station with essentially daily commerce as you would see in a major city. you started using that gate to bring people in, bring them

back in a safety. >> so let me ask you, mitch. a question that is hung over this absolute disaster for quite some time. how did we get so wrong? the intel agencies, by the way, just about everything right, the ukraine war. but regarding afghanistan. they had no clue on how quickly the taliban would seize complete control of the country. how did they get that so wrong? >> that's a good question joe, we're still gonna be answers. one thing we know is that the expectations for the afghan army, 300,000 men strong, equipped and trained by the united states, they dissolve on contact. they didn't have the will to fight and defend their country. everyone got it wrong, let's make this clear. it was just the united states, you don't have president ghani getting on a sudden aircraft out of his own country.

he realized that the taliban was about to be there. this was an intelligence failure, it was an operational failure as well. i think it is because we did understand just how in the countryside, how the taliban was being viewed. and the amount of momentum that they had moving so quickly towards making kabul. >> coming up, a new report finds more single women are working than ever before, but the pay gap has grown, why? we will dig into that ahead. why we will dig into that ahead. we will dig into that ahead. subway keeps upping their game with the subway series. an all-star menu of delicious subs. like #4 supreme meats. black forest ham and genoa salami. you can't stop that much meat. you can only hope to contain it - in freshly baked bread. try subway's tastiest menu upgrade yet.

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life for this moment. >> i'm deeply aware of this great inheritance. deeply aware of thi great inheritance. >> single women are now the fastest growing group in the labor market. a new study finds that as they are numbers in the workforce rise, the wage gap increases to. here to explain forbes women editor megan mcgrath and vice chair of the 30 50 summit, have

a dean, great to have the team back together again. maggie, this report by wells fargo, what do they find? >> this report was striking, it found that the number of single women in the labor force has increased by a factor of three over the last decade. be paid up for these women over that time has not only persisted, it has increased by nearly 4%. single women currently make about 92% of what their male counterparts make. down from 96% ten years ago. this may not sound like gigantic numbers, but there are huge implications for wealth building. wells fargo also found that single women have 18% lower net worth than their male counterparts. and because single here is defined by folks who may be divorced or separated or widowed and have at some point receive some economic benefit from their marriage, that number is bigger for never

married women. they have 29% lower wealth than their male counterparts. that is hugely concerning because we know that women are living longer than men so they're earning less money, building less wealth to last a longer amount of time. >> what is that, the given reason why? have they looked into why this is happening? >> i talk to wells fargo economists there, i do believe that it is counterintuitive. she pointed to three big factors. the first is caregiving, we know that women do a disproportionate amount of the unpaid caregiving work in this country. that takes him out of labor force and affects their earnings. the second factor is the implicit bias about the value of women's work that can affect our pay. and finally, the most interesting, is occupational differences. we don't talk about this a lot, but gender differences in choice of field is the biggest driver of the gender pay gap. there are fields like stem that are still male dominated, according to m.i.t., women are only 28% of that workforce. those male dominated fields are

often higher paying than the fields that are female dominated like education. >> so you worked for many years with hillary clinton, it has always been a strong proponent of closing the wage gap. looking for a stricter transparency law to ensure women and men are paid equally for the same job. is there anything more that can be done from a policy perspective? >> i think of the many forms of discrimination that women face in this country, one of them is not being paid equally for equal work. i would say there are three things we should be doing. the first is updating and strengthening current laws that exist, it is been illegal since 1963 to not pay women the same amount that they payment. 2009, we had the fair pay act. just last month, congress introduced legislation that strengthened that 1963 law to ensure that employers are held accountable and that women have an avenue for gender discrimination in the workplace.

the second thing is transparency. women need to know what a job pays and we know that women tend to undervalue themselves as it is. to go in the work space and understand what your colleagues are being paid and having those conversations is important. the third thing is the cultural change. not all business is done in the work space, how many men go into details on the golf course or at ball games, how women network, how we are together, supporting each other, i think between these two things, that is how we push the ball forward and ensure equal pay for women. >> equal pay is such a key issue, at 30 50 summit, which of course you both are on the team creating, what was now the second annual. we now have a third coming up next march. connections, cross cultural connections were made and these topics were addressed head on. what we all found is there is strength in numbers.

the incredible conversation with hillary clinton, billie jean king, gloria steinem, ellen is zelenska. there was so many different ways that we attack this issue. was their key takeaway for you about that this summit? >> absolutely. you have three women who have made us loud and uncomfortable for decades about issues including equal pay. the fact that we went in that conference, as you will remember micah, with the u.n. report saying that the current wait it will take 257 years for there to be gender equity around the world. it is urgent work. >> coming up, drama surrounding the hit series yellowstone and one of its biggest stars, morning joe we'll be right back. stars morning joe we'll be right back back the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more...

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drinking water is already strain and impoverished community maybe progress for the owners of the pipeline, or owners of whatever runs through the pipeline, or for those receiving it. it can lead to disastrous affects of the land, and the people, this pipeline runs beneath, which is not progress at all. >> if it is for those people, and for the future of montana. >> and for that reason, as governor of montana, i cannot

support that endeavor, and i use the full weight of my office to prevent it from happening. >> the attorney generals office under article five and sections are teen of the state constitution is requesting a senate trial tribunal seeking impeachment. >> that was the thrilling and as the first half of the season five of the hit series, yellowstone. >> if you don't watch it, that's father son -- yes,. >> with rumors swirling that production on the suffolk half of that season has yet to begin, many fans are wondering if america's most popular tv show is in trouble. that's not all. according to fox, another source recently told the new york post and daily mail that paramount networks hit, which was originally intended for six seasons, will likely end up for a season five due to an ongoing feud between creator, taylor

sheridan, and star, kevin cause there. >> let's bring in a founding partner -- matthew bellini. he's a former editor for the hollywood reporter. >> what's going on. >> matthew, say it ain't so, man. sating so. >> i really got into it. >> we want to see -- and the dutton's finish this story out. is it going to happen? >> i'm sorry to say, probably not. or at least, not if it was originally intended. there is a sendoff, right now. kevin costner wants to do other things. he's making these western movies calls horizon. he already shot the first one last year, he shooting the second one right now. he doesn't want to spend very much time on the yellowstone set. he came back to them and said, okay, for the second half of season five, i'm only going to give you a very small window of time. that's a really difficult thing for yellowstone to shoot around,

because all the scenes, most of them, are outdoors. there's a lot of horse riding, it's a very elaborate production, and when kevin costner is saying, he'll only give you a week or two of his time, you can't really create a meaningful arc around that character in that time. there are still waiting on cause they're to come back to them, potentially give them a little bit more time. the other thing i told is that -- sheridan is ready to move on, and waiting to figure out how he will write kevin causing her off the show. >> oh, boy. let's not even get into that. so, matthew, talk about, you've discussed this split between kevin and taylor sheridan, the creator. has this been a long time coming between these two? >> they never totally gotten along, everything i've heard is that it's been professional.

kevin is a filmmaker his self and he's trying to make him put on the show. he's like my character do this, is getting a little bit too so be, things like that? he's basically been told, you're an actor on this one, so let me be the creator. you know, that's fine, he's paid very well and said to make about $20 million on the season, and potentially next season of the show if it comes back. but, this is a guy that's had a long career, he wants respect, and he's got other things he wants to do. i think yellowstone will continue, whether it's with matthew mcconaughey, in the show, or another show. but, it looks like this season will likely be the last. >> so, matthew, taylor sheridan, he's a creator, he is a show runner, he's a principal writer of the series, yellowstone. he's also got two or three other programs on air and some of them are successful, some not so successful. how much of this is on him?

is he over extended? is he too much into being taylor sheridan, this is my line, you're not going to fool with the line. you're going to show up. how much of it is on him? >> that certainly is the line that the costner cap is putting out there. if you read some of the media. -- it's not just two or three shows, it's a dozen shows that taylor has in development, both on the air and plans for the next couple of years. including all the yellowstone prequel's, he did 1883, 1923. very planning on doing yellowstone every other decade, going up to the president. >> that does, it for morning joe weekend, we'll be back monday at 6 am eastern. have a great rest of the day. this is the katie phang show, live from washington d.c..