out for us, but it's a principle we need to talk about, and how they make our lives better to live under a representative democracy like ours. >> all right, you know me, i'm always happy for a big long conversation on democracy, on economy, and who's making it better, who's making it worse. perhaps, will schedule that one. thanks to both of you, david jolly and rina shah, we appreciate your time this morning. coming up ahead, i'm gonna talk about the future of american democracy, again, with two lawmakers who are in the middle of the fight at the state level. the oklahoma state representative ajay pittman and the california state assembly member alex lee. plus, former vice president pence has finally appeared before a grand jury in the january 6th investigation. i'm gonna talk to someone who knows pence better than most, his former senior adviser olivia troye. another hour of velshi begins right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> and good morning to you this saturday, april 29th. i am ali velshi. back in 2021, most of the

country hadn't heard of so we zephyr, but as the montana legislation was in session that year, she was paying close attention to the bills that were introduced, and she was fervently tweeting about them. zephyr is a trans woman. she was enraged by something called s b to 80, a piece of legislation which would've made it difficult for transgender people to update their birth certificate. she commented on twitter, quote, having my birth certificate updated, and having it remove my that name, meaning the name that a transgender was given at birth, but no longer goes by, is one of the greatest joys i've experienced. moments later, the bill passed the state senate by the slimmest of margins with a vote of 26 to 24. zephyr took note and wrote, quote, it would only take one person to have protected my community from discrimination. if that doesn't make it clear that we need trans representation and government, i don't know what will. ten minutes later, she tweeted again, quote, i am filled with a mix of fear slash rage about what montana is doing to me and

my community, and a burning desire to fight against it. next year, i'm gonna run for office in the montana legislature. zephyr followed through with that promise and was elected to office last november. she chose to fight against the tide of intolerance and injustice against herself and her community during a time when the legislative attacks on the lgbt community have only gotten worse. a record number of anti lgbtq bills have already been introduced in state legislatures across the country during the first four months of this year. 469 of them, according to the aclu, which is already more than twice as many as last year, and it's not even may -- yet on thursday, zooey zephyr was censured and banned from the state capital, forcing her to work remotely for the remainder of the current legislative session, and unable to participate in debate. her crime was a breach of decorum for saying that members will have, quote, blood on your hands for voting for a bill that will ban gender affirming care and transgender -- for

transgender minors in the state, which by the way was signed into law yesterday by montana's governor john forte. zephyr is the third young democratic lawmaker to be censured by republican dominated state legislature for breaking decorum and just the past three weeks. earlier this month, tennessee state representative justin jones and justin j. pearson were expelled from their positions for leading protests against gun violence on the house for, along with a third colleague, gloria johnson, a white lawmaker who was not expelled ultimately. their protest and their subsequent explosions happened just days after six people, including 39 year old children, were killed in a mass shooting event at a school in nashville. it's part of america's epidemic of mass shootings this on record pace this year, according to analysis by the associated press. maybe the elder statesman and women of the legislatures have found lawmakers alike, justin j. pearson, but justin jones, to direct, to confrontation delivering their message. but they are meeting this

moment. after years of inaction on a number of issues that directly affect them and their peers, he could've let themselves be defeated by the repeated trauma of mass school shootings. it could've been paralyzed by the existential fear of climate change and societal, society indifference to it. they could've been hindered by the lack of progress on social justice issue, and the active efforts to rollback reproductive rights, lgbtq freedoms, and other personal liberties. they could have been disillusioned by the disintegration of democracy after living through an insurrection, and two elections where the candidate with fewer votes won the presidency. but they are not. instead, they are at the halls of state capitals across the station demanding that the representative state action on gun violence. they are taking to the streets to protect and restore americans reproductive rights. as maxwell frost, the youngest member of congress but it during a rally that he held earlier this week, we are young and fed up. and now, as younger generations of americans enter the halls of

government, the political discourse will be much richer for it, if we let them speak. i'm joined now by the oklahoma state representative ajay pittman. she is the co-chair of the oklahoma future caucus, and the vice chair of the tourism committee. she is also a seventh generation native american, only the third seminal elected to serve in the oklahoma state legislature. also with us, california assemblyman alex lee. he is the chair of the states environmental safety and toxic materials committee. he is the youngest asian american and the first bisexual legislator elected in california's history. thank you to you to, ground breakers, we appreciate your time this morning. let me start with you, representative pittman, you are a seminal representative in a state that was largely created by moving native americans from where they were all over this country from their indigenous lands to a place that they were not from. you are representing a culture

and a people that has been voiceless. zooey i zephyr said this morning, two nights ago to me, that when she was ousted in the legislature in montana, she got support from native americans who had said we are also erased in history. and we need to not be. >> yes, sir, let me first say thank you for having me, and i'm a seminal native american, the third seminal being there. my mom was the second seminal. so, i'm the first daughter of ever served and her mom's seat in the state of oklahoma. and as we represent generations of native americans in private countries in the legislature, oklahoma has 39 federally recognized tribes. but yet, we have no full blood native americans serving in our legislature. tribal country impacts our economic development by tons in our state. they give back in donations. they are building businesses. they are employing oklahomans,

whether they are private people or not. so, we are committed to say, we have to get history right. we have to acknowledge the work of all people and all cultures in this democracy. and every person should have a voice, black, white, indian, native american, 14, 15, 20, or 30, or 70, everyone deserves to have a voice. but we do have to train our people to get involved, and to say, you know what? that does affect you. you cannot sit on the sidelines at this time. you must reengage, and there are young people like myself, and like my colleague from california, my colleagues from tennessee, who are we engaging in new generation of elected officials. >> i feel like you said all the things. you know, you really made it all makes sense. representative alex lee, the thing that i'm gloaming on to, though, that representative pittman said, that justin j. pearson said that justin jones that zooey zephyr, that alexandra ocasio-cortez said,

that maxwell frost said, that if you come from one of us, you come from all of us. we are in this thing together. representative pittman's concerns, your concerns in a state that's not a republican state. you have to all be heard, and you have to come together at the same time. and that feels like what this moment is right now. >> absolutely. you know, i'm thankful that california is not a republican state, because california leads the nation. we are very proud in doing that. and by nature, there are not a lot of young legislatures in this country. so, when you come for a lot of us, we are actually very tight-knit network, even though we may not know each other super, super personally. i've come to know some of my young colleagues from across the nation. at the same time, we are at the forefront of progress, forefront of change. and i'm also the vice chair of a progressive caucus in california, and the income chair progressive caucus. and i was right there at the site of our governor when we signed new landmark legislation to hold big oil accountable. we are pushing to tax the ultra

billionaires and this country, and we are also pushing to make affordable for everyone, to be a social housing, affordable housing legislation throughout this country. so, we are leading multi states, not just the coalitions, to make change for all americans. in the west coast, we have the privilege, i think, of not having such unconstructed conservative colleagues. but we still need to be pushing the envelope, even in the west coast and in california. >> representative pittman, one of the things we have discussed in the past three weeks is the widely unusual reason that the justices were thrown out of the tennessee state legislature. it was a breach of the quorum. zooey was zephyr censured for a breach of the quorum. and one of the things that representative summer lee from pennsylvania told me a couple of nights ago, we're not going to make you comfortable. we're not here -- we're not here to be peaceful and quiet. the point here, if you are going to break the tried a little bit, you're going to change the way things are done,

it's going to make you uncomfortable. it's something that tribal people in this country have struggled with for hundreds of years. the idea that you might be able to get to the seat at the table, maybe, or close to the table, as long as you play by our rules. your rules make us uncomfortable. your heritage and traditions make us uncomfortable. play by our rules, and you can be at the table. >> i think it's a balance of all of the above. i'm a seminal native american, and i'm also an african american female. but i'm the only democrat vice chair in the state of oklahoma. i'm fortunate enough to have a legacy of my mom who showed me how to do it. and so, yes, i'd rather talk to my colleagues in the back rooms then debate them on the floor. i think sometimes, you have to shake the table, but if you are at the table, then you are on the menu. so, you have to get to the table. and you're not going to get it at the same way you will -- so, there is a level of playing by some of the rules. but we are going to have the conversations.

we are going to be in your face about it. and everyone has their own way of doing it. what works in my oklahoma, super majority legislature, may not work for my colleagues in california. and so, navigating your waters that works best for you, i think we have to be tolerant of that, even though we are in the same party, my district demographics are different from my colleagues in california. and so, we may have, we may say we're all blue, but some of us are light blue, some of us are electric blue, some of us are powder blue. and leaving space for people to be humans, a lot of times, we automatically get dehumanized when we get a title because people put us in a box, in a party, and all of our experience show up to the capital with us. and we have to use that to get things done. and sometimes, that means being disruptive or having the hard conversations. and sometimes, that means playing by the rules. each situation calls for something different. and we have to be tolerant of how people show up to that table. >> that you all to stick over the world right now? like, i will take all of this.

this is a great deal. and representative lee, i think the point here that i have been hearing from you and others this week and in the last few weeks is that, yes, it is all the things, right? it's about change. you all, as young people, have not seen the political system work for you in the face of real existential threats, right? climate is really existential. if you are a trans person in this country, it's an existential threat to you. if you are native, it's been existential for a few hundred years. if you are a woman who can get pregnant, its ex essential to. so, what's your coalition of young people is saying, we will handle all of these things. it's going to feel a little disruptive. >> oh, absolutely. i mean, i represent silicon valley, and young generation is coming. we are running for local offices, state offices, and federal offices because our existence is on the line, whether kids today literally in school, worrying if they will not come back, school shootings

are no longer admissible. there is strong statistical probability, or whether or not our climate change will affect the climate we live in. or in california, especially where the average price of the home in my community, one point $6 million, will we be even able to live in those communities that we build in? these are true existential questions that are driving more and more people to run for office, because the status quo is not working. and that is why we are pushing on it. and sometimes, the things we say will be uncomfortable to the status quo because we say it's not working. but it's because we take a look at lawmakers across the country are trying for decorum, when they're just saying the true. and they say all sorts of ridiculous things all the time, and get away with it. which is saying the truth. we're working within the boundaries of our democratic system, and we're gonna get change done. >> stay strong, both of you. thank you for being with us this morning. democratic state representative ajay pittman of oklahoma, and democratic state number alex lee of california. the former president was on the campaign trail this weekend,

and doing a stop at the diner, donald trump saw a woman who identified as a january 6th or. she did jail time for participation in the attack on the capitol. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> hang in there, just hang in there. >> get over here. >> president trump, can we get a picture with you? >> thank you, president trump. >> thank you, sir. you've been through too much. >> later on, that same woman called for former vice president mike pence to be executed for his role in upholding democracy on january 6th. just this week, pence testified in front of a federal grand jury investigating trump's role in january 6th. coming up, i'm gonna talk about it all with pence's former senior adviser olivia troye. plus, vladimir putin, slate of new laws aimed at stifling any remaining dissent and russia.

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>> the special counsel investigation into former president trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election has reached a critical juncture, with a long shot appearance of a key witness. on thursday, the former vice president mike pence testified before the federal grand jury which convened as part of special counsel jack smith's investigation. pence testified for more than five hours. the former vice president is uniquely positioned to provide critical insight into the run up to the january 6th insurrection. nbc news reports that special counsel jack smith's team is particularly interested in trump's efforts to get pence to block the certification of the 2020 election results. mike pence described his final days with donald trump in an op-ed in the wall street journal. he says on january 5th, the day before he was set to certify the election results for biden,

trump's lawyers or requesting pence simply reject the electors. mister pence told trump he did not have the power to block congressional certification of the election. pence writes that on the morning of january 6th, quote, i rose early that day, and work on my statement to congress. when the phone rang a little after 11 a.m., it was the president. despite the press release you issued last night, i said i have always been forthright with you, mister president. i reiterated that i did not believe i had the power to decide which electoral votes would count. and i said i would be issuing the statement to congress, confirming that before the joint session started. the president laid into me, quote, you will go down as a win, he said. if you do that, i made a big mistake five years ago. but when he said you're not protecting our country, you are supposed to support and defend our country, i calmly reminded him, we both took an oath to support and defend the constitution. jack smith likely had some questions about that phone call. you might remember the people closest to trump, including his daughter ivanka, seemed to confirm mr. pence's account,

when they testified before the january 6th committee last year. >> at some point, it started off as a conversation, everything, and then it became heated. >> the conversation was pretty heated. >> did you hear any part of the phone call, even if it's just the and the president was speaking from? >> i did, yes. >> all right, what did you hear? >> so, as i was dropping off a note, i remember hearing the word wimp, either he called him a win. i remember he said, you are a win, that's the word i remember. >> on january 6th, as the insurrection was underway, donald trump sent a tweet attacking mike pence for failing to overturn the election saying, quote, mike pence did not have the courage to do what should have been done. the january 6th showed evidence of how that tweet was received among trump supporters outside. >> i'm telling you what i'm hearing, i'm hearing that pence just caved. is that true? i'm hearing reports that pence

caved. i'm telling you, if pence caved, we're gonna drop the [bleep] through the streets. you effing politicians are gonna get back to the streets. >> i guess the hope is that there is such a show of force that pence will decide to do the right thing. >> where is pence? >> bring him out! >> bring out pence! >> bring him out! >> bring out pence! >> bring him out! >> hang mike pence! >> this week on the same day that pence testified to the grand jury, donald trump made a campaign stop in new hampshire. he embraced this woman who served time in prison for her involvement in the january 6th insurrection. she was introduced to trump as a january 6er. trump called her terrific and told her to, quote, hang in there. here's what the woman told nbc news right after that. i believed every single person, every single person that stole a voice from our collective voice of we, the people, off the people, for the people, by the people deserves a death,

and no less than that. she added, quote, she would like a front seat of mike pence being executed. and that he should be the number one person on her list of those who committed treason. joining me now is olivia troye. olivia was homeland security adviser, counterterrorism adviser to former vice president mike pence during the trump administration. olivia, good morning to you. tell me a little bit about the math on this thing. on wednesday, evening, wednesday evening, really, trump lost his appeal, his final appeal to stop mike pence from testifying. there is some talk about how the trump team might appeal that to the supreme court. there is a morning, mike pence was in there testifying before the grand jury, which leads me to believe that mike pence knew that that was it was gonna do, and jack smith knew that that was what is going to do. no time was wasted. tell me what that makes you think. >> look, knowing mike pence and his character the way i do, i think this is a moment that mike pence has been waiting for. you and i have that conversations about the

political talk over that was necessary here, as he debates whether he's gonna run for the presidency or not, and what that means. this is the party of trump. trump is the front runner right now for the gop nomination. i expect that trump, who would become a nominee, i don't see that likely -- what that means for the country. for people like me, and for people like mike pence. but i think, i think he told the truth. i believe that the truth is on his side, and i believe that that is the true character of who mike pence is. now, here is the issue, though. i have been critical of him, as you know, ali, because and the court of public opinion, where it really matters, i felt that mike pence could have made a big difference by taking more publicly, or cooperating with the january 6th committee, because we've had over two years of this narrative being pushed every single day. and what you talked about just now, trump posing with that lady, who is still calling for the execution of mike pence, that's a perfectly -- perfect

reminder of the fact that the president of the united states almost had the vice president of our country killed at the time. and then, all of these people still follow that narrative, and still believe mike pence to be a traitor of our country, even though he was a leader of our country at some point in time. and i say that because, to me, that is so, so apparently wrong that that is where we are as a country, and that is concerning for the future of our country in the direction that we're going in. >> i have said to you many times, if my boss calls for my execution, that will be the end of my relationship with my boss. but, strangely, one jonathan allen of nbc caught up with trump at that diner, and asked him about the fact that mike pence was testifying, donald trump's response was that he has a lot of confidence in mike pence, which is we are, it feels like mob bostock. what do you mean by that exactly? you know what mike pence is going to say, because pence has written a book about. he has done an op-ed about it. pence, he said that donald trump, with his family and

himself in danger, and that history will judge him. we kind of know where mike pence is on this, including the fact that whether you like him or not, and a lot of people don't, he did do the right thing on january 6th. >> he did. and, look, i think that's absolutely mob boss behavior. that's trump sending a statement once again to mike pence saying, get in line, do the right thing, or else -- but what is the or else now? i mean, pence has nothing more to lose. you spoke at the nra convention, right? he got moved there. he's actually going to the right of trump on some issues, which i'm disappointed in. you know, but we can disagree on policy here, but at the end of the day, i think it's important that migrants is going to testify before a jury of our american peers. it's important for accountability to happen. and, look, i hope that mike pence's played a significant role, and finally bringing accountability, especially with

donald trump. >> olivia, as always, good to see you. thank you for your analysis. olivia troye is a former senior adviser to former vice president mike pence. vladimir putin's crackdown on those who dare disagree with him continues. with russian opposition politician vladimir kara-murza, now sentenced to 25 years in prison. i'll talk to his wife evgenia, after this. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ there's the philly, the monster, the boss. if i hadn't seen it in person, i wouldn't have believed it. eating is believing steph. the subway series. try subway's tastiest menu upgrade yet. (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good. (vo) verizon small business days are back. april 27th through may 3rd. get a free tech check and special offers. like a free 5g phone. get started today with verizon business. it's your business.

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signed a new law imposing a maximum penalty for treason of life in prison. it was part of a series of repressive laws which change russia's criminal code and are aimed at stifling any remaining dissent in the country. it comes just over a week after russian opposition -- and my friend vladimir kara-murza was sentenced to 25 years in prison on charges which included treason and speaking out against putin's war in ukraine. during my time in ukraine last

april, after the war broke, out i spoke with vladimir on this show several times. i spoke with him on the last sunday when i was there. and i asked him if he was worried about having gone back to moscow after being so outspoken about the war in the russian government. >> we'll have the, price we almost cost. we also know that there are millions of people in russia, with both in terms of domestic repression and in terms of the subtle aggression, how there are many people in russia who won our country to be a normal modern democratic european state. i think it would be very demoralizing for those of us who, as the republic faces -- opposition, we'll just leave the. country i don't condemn, it but if you ask me, and a russian politician, russia is my country, russia's my home, this is where you have to be. >> i'm worried for you, my friend, you have been a source of mine from inflation for many years so a lot of worry on your

behalf. >> volodymyr kara-murza of was arrested the next day. when the judge handed down the sentence, he said -- 25 years is the highest appraisal that i could get for doing what i did and what i believed in. how does a citizen, a patriot and a politician. and quote. in a statement to the end of the court -- he said i know that the day will come when the darkness engulfing our country will the. say that they will come as inevitably springs comes to replace the frosty's winter. volodymyr's, wife i've guinea, at and their three children currently live in the united states. she tweeted after the, verdict a quarter of a century is an a+ for your courage, your consistency and honesty, and your years-long work. when i'm infinitely plowed of you, my love. and i'm always fireside. evgenia kara-murza joins me now. if guinea, a how are you doing. i'm having a rough time with. and how are you doing? >> well, ali, believe me it

feels surreal. [inaudible] >> it's good to be here with you. i'm doing as well as i can. i know that this is someone i'm infinitely proud of and i admire my husband. and he is also the father of our three children. the idea was to raise these kids together. and i'm gonna continue fighting for him for as long as it takes me to bring him back home. >> this was -- i don't want to say inevitable, we don't think anything is inevitable, but what he and i talked in april and practice, that you guys had made the decision that he was going to go back. you know, i, mean it was very fast how it happened, but take me through those days. the decision to go back, the inevitable likely arrest and how that all went down. >> this was really not the decision to go back, it was the decision not to leave his country behind. and he used to spend, of these

many years, he used to spend at least 50% of his time in russia where he traveled across the country, where he went to many regions, meant different, people he was always excited about meeting these people all across the country because he said that there is so many russians citizens, all across the country, who are very enthusiastic, who refused to give up the fight, they want to see russia different, country and so he knows, he knows for sure that these people are there and he believes it was always his duty to stand by that. to stand by their side and fight with them together. so this was not the decision to go, back it was this is not to ever make the decision to leave. and stay away from russia. and try to work from -- from outside, i guess, >> he said to me many years, ago in a conversation that we were having where i said something about the russians. he said don't call them. russians the russian people or

not the people you're talking about. the government of vladimir putin is not the russians. he said make that distinction for your view. was that when you watch this evil, and this is many years before ukraine, when you watch this evil, let's point to who's actually doing. it there are russian people who crave freedom. the russian people who crave justice and fairness and liberty. and that's what i represent. >> and i believe that is absolutely right in saying that. because he was given 25 years of strict regime, exactly for, that for standing up to the regime of collect a crux and the regime of murderers. these people have been truly affected by his long time work of calling for sanctions, against those human rights violators in the current russian government. and the current russian government, depends a lot on this warped image of reality that he tries to create all the world and for both the domestic purposes and for the

international stage. that warped image of reality, in which the entire russian population stands behind the war, and stands behind vladimir putin's policies. but the reality is different. because if there were no opposition, in the country, who would the regime be using these repressions against? who would they be using the soviet repressive techniques against? it includes psychology, sexual violence, prison terms, up to 15 years for just standing up in the street with a slogan that says no war. who would they be losing at against? all of? that if there were no opposition in the country? why would they be introducing life sentences for high treason? and high treason today is any narrative that opposes that contradicts the official narrative. so anyone who stands against what vladimir putin and his government represent, anyone

who stands against that future, that vladimir putin has chosen for our country, is seen and is portrayed by the government, by the russian authorities, as either criminal, a traitor or a spy. we >> if guinea, a house let him are doing as far as you know? >> we well, you know him, well you've known him for many years. so i think that you would believe if i told you he's courage remains strong. and this is absolutely -- i can hear his voice every time i read one of his articles or when i read that last word that he made in court, after the verdict, i was amazed. i could hear his voice. and that was so hot warming for me because i haven't seen or heard him for over a year. and nor have our kids. vladimir has been denied the right to even have phone

conversations with his kids. for over a year. despite, all his spirit remained strong. he is a fighter and i have to be a fighter for him as well. but unfortunately, his health is deteriorating, as could have been expected because he survived poisoning attacks in the past. the attacks led to the development of poly neuropathy, which means that he is basically losing sensation, feeling in his extremities. now after years of pretrial the tension in, some times that he spun in solitary confinement, these symptoms that he had been able to keep under control through regular physical exercise, and violating an active lifestyle, have not only come back, but seem to be spreading. so now he's feet losing feeling in both his legs, and he's lost around 50 pounds. and never complains, though, and that is also vladimir.

>> when he got arrested, i remember thinking, this is nelson mandela and martin luther king and gandhi all rolled into. one he knew what he was, doing and he will prevail because that is his strength. and the strength of many other people. if getting, at yours mostly, actually, thank you for being with us today and getting -- it done in caribou, said the wife of volodymyr kara-murza. we, don't wear the velshi banned book club is next. >> velsh banned book club is next banned book club is next >>at enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you keep your cloud options open. (smelling) ew. gotta get rid of this. ♪tell me why♪ because it stinks. ♪have you tried downy rinse and refresh♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. ♪♪ remember the things you loved doing... before your asthma got in the way? get back to the things you love... with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment

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been made new. his past was, gone he fell to his knees, and took matilda's hands to press them on his. heart he shouted up at her, mary. me their marriage and the identities within the confines of that relationship of the subject of lauren croft's new york times bestselling, book fates and, furious which is today's future for the velshi banned book club. spending two, decades this is told from dueling perspectives, first, we hear from the golden boy who has been dump the ultimate hand with his privilege, his gender and his good, looks then, in the latter half of the, book we hear from. matilda keeps their secrets and leads a much harder. life fates and furious puts forward the idea that all stories and interactions or multi sided. even the combination of the protagonist perspectives, it does not paint the entire picture for the reader. fates and furious to strength is in its writing. goff is a master at using poetic language, creating a magic, real-ism setting. and seemingly incorporating mythological elements of illusions, indeed, there are moments that are

quintessentially greek myth. as shocking as the story of a tapas -- it's a story that's included in many high school curriculums. she also employs the literary grip chorus, often with commentary reckon brackets like the starkly humid aside for a minor character, quote, her death would be soon and, sudden ski tumble, embolism, contained in the book or depictions of consenting sex, an affair, the inner workings of a serious relationship and a matilda is abortion. however, it's worth noting that the recommended reading age for fates and furious is 18 and up. many high school seniors and some juniors, for that, matter are 18 years old. but unsurprisingly, this book, and at least 57, others were targeted for removal from all public libraries in florida's county school district last year. one local official described the ban as necessary for the welfare of all involved. for many high school seniors, the topics explored within the pages of fates and theories are

too much. the students may not be lauren groff ready or interested in exploring sex, abortions, or even identity just yet. and that is fine. that is their prerogative, but for many highschoolers, these topics are extremely relevant already, and they need a book like fates and furious to explore these ideas, safely and sometimes privately. as velshi, viewers know well to call abortion inappropriate is to be unaware of the lives of many many teenage girls and women. this book is powerful and poignant, it's a great read and response to the ban, graph tweeted in, part if any public school students want to read my book into the shelves, i will mail you a copy. >> but after, the break i'm joined by three-time national book award finalist and one of the president barack obama's favorite, writers lauren groff, we're going to dig into fates and furious. and furious. (cecily) not that you're bragging. (vo) with verizon unlimited for $35 a line, your family now gets disney+, hulu, and espn+.

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now by lauren groff, she is a three-time national book award finalist, she's the author of today's velshi banned book club, faith and theories. we should, note lauren groff lives in, florida one of the states leading the country and book banning. for graduations to you for that, lauren. it's a privilege to have you. here i want to get right into the, book i want to talk about the structure of fates and furious. it's starting with one owes story, you give him a link up with the -- talk to me about these two perspectives, what inspired you to use that device? >> well, in truth, actually wanted to write two separate novels completely different novels that you could read back and forth. sort of like mr. and mrs. bridge, which are great monitors books from america. but of, course when i finally gave my book to my agent he read the man said oh, no, this is a marriage. and then he did this adorable thing, he pushed the books together he said it's a marriage, two individuals

within one cover. so i had to rewrite the book completely. but he was absolutely correct, because this became -- with the new structure, a book about the multiplicity of perspective and the way that stories are told, and the way that every story has 100 different ways to tell it. and, yeah, because i wanted to talk about privilege in some ways, power and the way that some people who have privilege and power don't necessarily understand what they have. >> until you see it starkly portrayed, it's hard to understand that. let me read a short passes from the book, the wife is the drama of the marriage. the one whose work is essential to what is produced. even if your contributions are never directly recognized. there is glory in this role. my, wife matilda, for instance, gave up her job years ago to make mine run more smoothly. she loves to cook in clean and edit my work.

it makes we're happy to do these things. talk to me about that? the feedback on that passage? >> of course, it's lotto speaking, and he's in front of a bunch of people and he's trying to praise his wife for doing all of these things for him. but of course, she has her own internal life. she has her own ideas. she's an artist herself. and it was incredibly offensive to her that he would diminish her existence to a supportive role. and it indicated how he took her for granted as so many people did. in one of the models for this marriage, was vladimir and vera no book of, farah was also brilliant, but she was the handmade into vladimir's work. >> matilda, in the, book is the fury. that is referenced in the title. is that good or evil? does it matter? >> it's not evil, it's not. good in greek mythology, the

fury is our authentic, goddesses, creatures of absolute ancient vengeance. but they're really powerful and my vision of them is much more nuanced. i think mathilde's idea of the world and her husband is more truthful and she's a bit more pragmatic about the world and the way she can act in it. and he. is >> we have on this book club address the power of modern adaptations of other books. margaret atwood's, hague seed, it's a modern retelling of the tempest which was banned in arizona. fights and furious is not a direct adaptation of any particular greek myth, but there are many illusions and many direct references in the books to the genre. talk to me about why you thought it important to take a

look at classic literature through a modern lens. >> classic literature is so extraordinary because it's really the roots of the storytelling that we have from the contemporary day. one of the things that i love so deeply about classical drama, classical mythology, is the idea of multiple layers of time happening all together at the same time. so in, say, oh merrick or something like the hot odyssey, or the illiad, we have god time. which is different from mortal time. of course, the gods linger for a much longer period of time. and i love this duality of time because it -- when the reader is riding along in their own contemporary moment, there's a third layer that's happening as well. what this does is it gives a deepening perspective to

history and historical thinking and it sort of makes this feeling that -- these narratives are actually really elemental. they are coming from the ground. they are like the earth or the air or the water. there is something very powerful and very common to all humans in these narratives. it's just this additional feeling that i wanted to put into this book. to talk, not only about common marriages that we might be able to find around us anywhere, but also about the deeper narrative by privilege in power. >> not everything -- obviously the velshi banned book club came about because books get banned in places, including florida, but not everything i talk about is political, and i want to talk about florida because fates and freeze, florida is almost a character in itself. it's a major driver.

florida is in your other books, the families are from. there what does it represent to you in your writing? >> florida is fascinating to me because i'm not there by choice. my husband took over a family business and -- you know, family businesses are gilded cages. i'm deeply ambivalent about the place. not that i am wishy-washy, because i actually don't believe that that is the definition of the mid-valence. i'm so profoundly in love with the place, but i'm also deeply the and disdainful of certain things, for instance the political landscape right now. i love the environment. where live, in gainesville, we have this prairie and we have these extremes nearby, these sources that are cold and beautiful. and you can float down them for hours. it's so spectacular. and, yet what people are doing to it drives me crazy. it makes me profoundly sad. so it's a place of deep

contrasts and ambivalent feelings, for sure. >> lauren, our producer, literary preserves or, told me i would love this conversation with, you and i was. right thank you for being with. us thank you for your writing. lauren groff, the author of fates and furious, today's feature from the velshi banned book club. i will catch you back here tomorrow morning from ten to noon. eastern. alex witt starts right after the quick break. the quick break. mi. you can't stop that much meat. you can only hope to contain it - in freshly baked bread. try subway's tastiest menu upgrade yet. i'm javi, i'm 31, and i'm a fitness instructor. i saw myself in a photograph. and we were all smiling, and i looked closer, and i was like that- that's what everybody sees? i'm back, and i got botox® cosmetic. the lines were so prominent it's all i saw in the photograph, so now when i take photos, and i see myself in photos, its- it's me, i just have fewer lines.

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