>> oh, absolutely. >> you become very attached. >> those girls are special. pam had a part in that, and they're -- hopefully they'll be able to live on her legacy. >> reporter: and ralph's legacy? because of him, aaron will go on searching, hoping to learn what happened to his mother. >> yeah. i will be looking. probably in -- oh, in some way my entire life i'll always be asking questions. >> reporter: and shannon -- >> he needs to realize this isn't over. he didn't just murder someone and have nothing afterwards. he left behind family. he left behind a disaster. and if i'm the only thing to remind him of that, then that's what i'm there for. >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin, thank you for watching. watching >> chris hayes has the night off, but he will be back tomorrow night, and this is a special edition of joe

represents, we have so much to get through tonight. including our interview with joe biden, former president bill clinton, tony blair, secretary of state hillary clinton, and many other archetypes of the 25 year old peace agreements of northern ireland. but we start tonight with the explosive news, the announcement from fox news that right-wing host tucker carlson is out of the network. this surprisingly brief statement from fox reads quote, fox news media and tucker carlson have agreed to part ways, we thank you for the service of the network as a host, and prior to that is a contributor. some reports say that it was ordered by fox corporation chairman, rupert murdoch. as early as friday. nbc hasn't confirmed the details, but you don't to look far to find a lot of reasons why fox would want to get rid of tucker carlson at this particular time. according to the l.a. times, quote, carlson cites it's related to a discrimination lawsuit filed by abby grossberg. that could be the kind --

that executive producer, just, and was also terminated. it was also reported that murdaugh was concerned about carlson's coverage of the january 6th attack, and also carlson's dismissal may be linked to the landmark 787 million dollar defamation settlement, with dominion voting systems. the washington post quoting, quote, the -- demeaning case also played a role in his departure. they said that carlson's final show aired friday, which was a surprise to the former anchor. who signed off on friday with a promise to return tonight. nbc has reached tucker carlson for comment, we haven't heard back yet. let's talk to msnbc, and national news -- he's also the executive producer of showtime circus. john, explain for us if he will. why is this one of the more significant days and cable news

history? >> i find it hard to think, will certainly, the history of fox news, was when roger rails got fire in 2016, and we thought that was a big deal. architecture the network. but tucker's show went on a 9:00 in april of 2017. three months into the trump presidency and basically six years it's been running now and if you think about that period in our history it's been a turbulent, compulsive, and dangerous time. perilous on for america. we talked a lot about the battle between democratic values, and anti-democratic values, authoritarianism, autocratic impulses, political violence, conspiracy theory. >> by the way, a direct line from washington d.c. to russia, to hungary. the literal battle across the united states. >> the western world. >> and the western world, the battle between autocratic regimes and democracy. >> do you think about it with donald trump, that was a trump

era presidency, and the post trump era. that symbiotic relationship between trump and fox news, the most powerful force in america political media page people to hear it but it is the case. that symbiotic relationship has been at the heart of that debate of that struggle whether we're gonna hold on to our democracy or not and in that company, the most powerful media association in the area. tucker carlson was the most powerful voice. he's not there at 9:00 after taking that chair and became the highest rated cable host in history. and the history of this business. >> everything that we say about donald trump, everything that you are saying right now, everything that the left has been accused of having trump derangement symptom over, we find out in the discovery of the dominion lawsuit case that

tucker carlson agrees! agrees point after point after points that in fact donald trump was a direct threat to american democracy and he destroyed everything he touched. >> it turns out that tucker carlson was in that chair, sitting in that chair on many occasions with 4.2 million people alive at these peak watching him. he was the most openly racist. the most conspiratorial. the most propaganda more conspiracy theories about january 6th. about covid about many things. about any cable host in history. that giant chamber. he's also big that fraud. he's someone who didn't believe many of the things that he was saying. on most of the crucial stories. especially the ones around the insurrection. so he was the guy who set the tone and tenor. and temperaments. and the ideological course for fox news. >> again, during this critical periods in recent american

history? >> it's that billable phase. come at the hour, come at the man. the trump tower came, and then it took colson with him and that combination of timing and tucker's ability to seize on an incredibly freighted, incendiary, the kind of rhetoric that fermented, fanned, fueled all of the world's dangerous pulses in american political life, that was his power. >> and it's now gone? >> it's hard to remember another time when a host, a news host getting fired was a shocking as what happens today. let's figure out exactly how it went down and let's bring in the guy who broke the story on how it went down, l.a. times reporter steve battaglio, steve he said this, the call came straight from the top, explain. >> it certainly was very, rupert was certainly very involved but he was not alone in this, since i did my reporting this morning coming

from robert, i was told that loughlin murdaugh and severe fox news was on board with this as well. there was no dissent here, they knew that this was a problem, they looked at abbey and i believe that it's probably evidence in abbey grossberg's lawsuit that incriminates or certainly implicates tucker in regards to her charges of discrimination of a hospital where place environment and that is something that fox news really has not tolerated since the department of roger royals, they have tried to clean up the culture there and he gave it to get rid of him. >> but steve, at the same time, roger ran the network, top to bottom. but what i found time and time again in dealing with fox news if there were any disagreements, it's almost like no one's home,

loughlin allowed tucker to do whatever tucker wanted to do, suzanne scott seem to have no say about what went on over there, so that's why when you had tucker going through what many would consider even the normal guardrails for fox news, there was fox was, well he does exactly what he wants to do which is i guess why today's news was so shocking? >> joe, four years i've asked people in fox news or anyone i talked to how long does regret put up with talker and i was told that he will put up with him until the day that he doesn't in that day is here and i think that it is a basket of, things i think that it is not only the lawsuit but i think that they were very concerned about these reports or what tucker has been saying about this so-called fbi plant, it was not a plant, right absolutely said was an instigator of january six, he was amping that up, it was talking about that as recently as last week and there is

possible legal action there, so, tucker worked his way down to more trouble than he's worth. >> so many lawsuits, you're, right we talk about his producers. the ex producers lawsuit that is out there. explosive charges there. and obviously 2.7 billion dollar lawsuit still in the mix. with fox. let's bring into the conversation also. former chairman of the republican national committee, now msnbc political analyst michael, also former white house press secretary, jen psaki, jen you dealt with tucker carlson and what was said on that show, what was said throughout the evening but really a news cycle that was shaped not almost entirely but tucker carlson but he was a dominant voice there and how significant is today's news coming out of fox? >> well, i think we're sitting in the white house right now you probably reacted like what many of us said, which is, wow

that is huge news, but they're also naive about what this, means unless steve tells us otherwise the likely replacement for tucker or what the primetime lineup is going to look like it's probably similar with less tarnish, less legally problematic coast but still people who are going to be very very critical of the president, the vice president, and others so very significant and he did drive and you know and you know that they would come up in the briefing room. but i don't think that there are naivete sitting in the white house either. that this is a big change in strategy or anything else up there. >> michael, still, it is hard to describe the people who don't have the relatives in the family that you and i have. and also the background that you and i have. may is a former republican, just what a massive presence. tucker carlson was and

republican parlor takes. and, able to describe themselves as conservatives. how they view tucker carlson. is there any chance that this guy could possibly go from cable news host to a political candidate running against donald trump? >> running against. maybe running with. yeah, i mean tucker has got any number of avenues that he can approach right now. because keep in mind joan, and you know this well. that tucker actually became sort of the updated manifestation of trumpism. he sort of re-frames the narrative and put images and a lot of tart language around a lot of the stuff that donald trump was pushing. so his connection to the base is even more unique then trumps in many respects. because he was the first go to when they weren't listening to trump, they were listening to

tucker. so in terms of what he wants to do next, he can probably decide whether he wants to do something more direct in politics, he wants to do something more directed media and we'll see where he goes from there. but he has got options. >> and, stables follow up on what jen said, she said perhaps you could tell us whether you believe that there may be some sort of shifting culture there. i remember roger rails actually having enough of going back and firing glenn back because he believed that back went through the guard rails. do you think those guardrails may be a little tighter over fox news after a senator and 80 million dollar settlement in the 2.7 million dollar or 2.7 pavilion dollar lawsuit. that they're still standing up? >> i think two things. i think the fact that tucker went today makes it open season on other talent and other executives. they went for the big enchilada

first and now who knows what is next? so i think that there could be more housecleaning and order. as far as a shift in strategy i think one reason why they were comfortable in doing this is because they have done it in the past. when they took o'reilly out there. and actually i will say that o'reilly was a personality of fox news, and the show came's out, they made changes in the audience what right with it. they know to satisfy their audience, they'll continue to do that. >> you can look at the people that have worked at fox. why fox. thought they were bigger than fox news. never worked. never worked. >> platform was more powerful than the personality. and roger hills used to actually at times, force host of just approved them that the ratings would stay up even when they were gone. that's been proven time and again. the los angeles times reporters

steve is always. thank you so much we're grateful that you are here tonight. >> thank you. >> so coming up next what it means for what that means fox news presser. we're for the business of. fox news plus gonna play bill maher's reaction to the dominion settlement and how that may have played into tucker's downfall. and later in the hour, our trip to ireland and northern ireland. including my conversation with president joe biden. and when he thinks the fragile peace in northern ireland will hold. even in the face of new challenges. >> >> you you said, and actually said actually in in your speech you said. your speech you said a lot of american investment right now is on the sidelines. and they are waiting to come in in northern ireland. >> they want to make sure this does not end up not being put together. they might end up having a democracy that functions. functions as a consequence of institutional structures and when that occurs you can generate economic growth.

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>> hi, everybody. welcome to fox news tonight. i am brian. candidly as you have probably, heard fox news and tucker carlson have agreed to part ways. i wish tucker the great best and great fences tucker and always well. day right, now it is time for fox news tonight so let's get started. >> that is the 8 pm hour at fox news and how it started tonight after took a carlson shocked the everybody with the pressure of the network. no further. discussion about the most popular primetime host. but on the street today the response to the news was far more dramatic. fox's stock fell soon after the news that the netflix had lost its star anchor. recovered later in the day but still closed at nearly 3% over $500 million in market capitalization. to talk about it let's bring on a financial columnist for the new york times. in jerod sorkin.

the michael stilson, jen psaki -- and with us. let's start with you, andrew. what is the impact on fox and how do you think things have changed since the dominion lawsuit? should we expect a new approach for fox news or is it going to be more of the same? >> i know there has been so much hand wringing and i know that in some cases there has been delight and what people view in the stock price today. from a financial perspective, is not clear that the loss of tucker carlson is going to have a meaningful impact. clearly not a 3% impact on the actual economics of the business. most of the business of fox news for the most part is affiliate fees. it is the cable subscription fees. 4.2 billion dollars worth annually. the sponsorship east is one point for some odd billion dollars. i'm not gonna say that's not

significant but if they lose $10 million a night or a year, rather, on this show, rather than you over the new house turns out to be, rather than tucker, we've seen this. before you were just talking about it in the last segment. so many big time names that we all know who are on that network. they left and everybody said oh my god, how are they going to continue? and they continued. >> let's talk about this though andrew. here is the difference right now. you have a 787 million dollar judgment. or settlement, that fox enters into. there is a two 7.7 billion dollar lawsuit. which they are still facing right now. they are our producer lawsuits. this is what i wonder, and i was asking this question all lastly. i guess you could say that some of my questions were answered with what happened today. but how long can the

shareholders and the board allowed fox news to be the wild wild west? and i'm wondering if perhaps some of that -- today. >> i don't think they, can but do it this. way they started with four billion dollars in cash. they just handed $800 million, let's make the numbers easy, to dominion. this next suit, the smartmatic suit, let's say it is similar in terms of what the -- scale of 1.2 billion is now they spent two billion dollars. then let's talk about abby's case. i don't know you think the number is. harriet number will come down, but the way the stock market is going to look at the companies less about what happens to the cash pile and more about what happens to the cash going forward of this company. i think the loss of tucker carlson to fox, the bigger issue we don't think we know the answer to yet is does he have a noncompete? does he show up on newsmax? that would be a problem, that would be a demonstrable problem for them. >> yeah. we shall see.

andrew sorkin, greatly appreciate it. a couple of things here. we didn't talk, michael, still yet about the man he was on 60 minutes last night. and of course, all of the problems with the lies that were spread around january 6th and particularly this support of donald trump went on 60 minutes last night to say that this guy is destroying my life. >> yeah. it is interesting how some of these narratives are turning around him now, networks trying to figure out some fresh ground as opposed to the ground it is currently stuck in. i don't know if any of this works. i think that's to andrews broader point with respect to a fox audience, they are all in many respects and yes some may follow tucker if he goes to newsmax but there is a branding relationship there the both trump and fox have been able to bring together. so i don't know why -- you have these folks now who

are all up in trump supporting the lies and pushing those narratives who suddenly now find themselves having that come to jesus moe's moment and realizing this guy is terrible for the party. some of the folks i've talked to are in that space are saying, asking themselves, what is their get here? what is their interest? there is suspicion, now which is emerging, joe, that would be interesting to watch. >> it is going to be interesting because of course a lot of the problems with dominion started at after the election and there was actually a mass exodus of fox viewers over to newsmax. jim psaki, i've got to ask you all about the news this coming up tomorrow. are we going to see president biden announce his every election campaign? and if so, will there be any change in strategy based on the news of the day? >> i think that seems very likely, joe. but i don't think so. if you are in the biden campaign and the biden white

house, fox is still a huge challenge. you could either ban them in a few pandemics like feeding a grambling because it makes them bigger and empowers them. you can fact check them which could take all day. or you could figure it went to engage them and punch them in the nose a little bit like the bully that sometimes they are. that is their, choice it is tricky. but they have to factor that in once they announce. >> one other thing we have not talked about yet, in the producers lawsuit. the charges of antisemitism, which i think might be some of the most explosive charges that we have heard yet. >> there are a lot of things that may be about to come out. things that are said and done with receipts, that could complicate his future plans. particularly if they happen to be political -- >> jim psaki a michael, still thank you both so much. we greatly appreciate it. we'll see you tomorrow. and up, ahead the story of the good friday agreement and tail peace in northern ireland dramatically came down to the

last moment. >> when i got to northern ireland the whole thing had collapsed. there was no agreement. >> conversations about the piece still that almost wasn't from the people who were there. plus, bill maher later in the show, we're gonna show you a clip from this past week. which may explain one of the reasons tucker carlson is out. is out. n feel darkest before dawn. with caplyta, there's a chance to let the light shine through. and light tomorrow, with the hope from today. this is a chance to let in the lyte. caplyta is a once-daily pill that is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and bipolar ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts.

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a crowd in northern ireland you are an atheist, someone will ask whether it is the god of protestants or the got of catholics. if you hope you do not believe. such are the complications of this cars resolving from decades of sectarian violence known as the troubles. 25 years ago, brave men and women in world politicians and world leaders humbly transform all sides, with nothing to lose everything to gain, locked themselves into a room and hammered out a historic deal with good friday in 1998.

-- monday to the general public. prime minister thatcher is known as the iron. lady true to, character she appeared unfazed by the blast even though the bathroom in her hotel suite was destroyed. she had been in the bathroom

seconds before the explosion. >> waking up to some new atrocity or act of terrorism and violence. i think we were able to do it because of the political leadership. england and ireland itself. prepared to move on a try to embrace a different future. >> you and president, clinton this assistant of jerry adams and soon, feign will be involved in the process which was not very popular. we took a real risk there. why? >> because a when the proper start in the 60s there was too average to try to make a solution. and before it didn't work. then the next one was 11 years later, the violence just got worse and worse. then 85 did not work out again, people tried -- and 98, 30 errors. we calculated that's the reason

the other two did not work, is that the people who are causing the problems were not at the table. you had to find a way for the label to bring people from the -- abrams invade. >> what does this mean to 25 years later? >> -- the killing. i was in school when the troubles started. and every day i went from kind of two years from the, end the second level squirrel. then there were, college than her work. then all the way through politics. and the trouble was still on. basically, stop the violence, stop the killing. because every day the story was the -- work killed. >> simply by landing, here air force one may history as the first american president to visit arrive to the most enthusiastic crowds he seen in some time.

they pushed back police to meet the president to like one in four u.s. president, claims routinizing. it was unmistakably a day of events for the president decidedly probe, he's beginning with a meeting of the iri political wing, sainte-anne leader jerry adams. >> noticed for others but the handshakes in belfast and the british government today said they were trying to last talking to stop you from doing that. >> you have to at some point the willing to talk and if you make an agreement be willing to trust and i thought that that's the principle here. and i thought that if they got going that i would keep going. if they are the right sort of guns. and in a situation like this that has been involved for 30 years were a lot of this of people have been killed, it doesn't have anything to do with politics on either side.

people have to get used to the fact that in order to it -- >> -- hijacked by men in the. girl later joined by another man. [inaudible] order to park by the hotel. people inside were given 15 minutes to get out. >> [inaudible] >> 45 minutes past, and then the bomb went off. >> when i came in 1995, i was just to melbourne we stately a rope a hotel here in belfast. it is the most bombs hotel in the world, a bills as if we would ask people to take -- for. piece of organ ask you police who give up their ideas about what they should get and make a

compromise, we have to show that we're willing to connect with women and make a stand ourselves. so we saw firsthand this was going to be an arduous undertaking. so although it is a short period of time in history, a couple of years really, which led to the good friday agreement, it happened in large part because the people of northern ireland wanted it. they finally have had enough and they said we have got to do better than this. >> we -- take risks in the people that could effectively -- carried on working on. it you are people who are prepared to do -- island was a training country. it was a different feeling in the zeitgeist, if you like. and it came together. then we had people from the outside in this case presidents clinton who had both the intelligence to understand the issue and the application to work on it. >> and yet with everybody

working together you described how this came together. >> it was crazy. yeah, we were blocked up in this not very nice building for days. >> george mitchell was smart on that one. jerry adams actually said it was not a very good place because >> it was a horrible place. they were not in the proper facilities, the building was not conducive at all. and that as the days went on, because a rachel that was supposed to cope with the agreement, where they got to northern ireland the whole thing had collapsed. so we had to do a lot of re-drafting and i got about six hours sleep in those days. as they think went on, it became almost a pressure on everyone. saying you cannot go out afterwards and say okay i am -- so it was a question on the

people inside the building. >> i believe it is a courage has triumphed and i said that when i arrived here on wednesday night, the guy fell to the head of history upon us. today, i hope that the border that history can at long last start to be lifted from our shelters. -- people got out ahead of the institutions that were sick and tired of people dying. they were tired of worrying about their kids walking down the street like with a good friday accord was put up. passed by 94% and -- in ireland they also got 71% in northern ireland. and they told you that the people got out ahead of the politicians and gave them the courage to do what had to be done. the parties made brave decisions. they've chosen hopeful for hate. they promise of a future over

the dismiss fortunes of the past. in so doing, already they've written a new chapter in the rich history of their island. >> you said that the good friday agreement was more of an agreement that was very complex and it was more of an agreement but to have a journey together that to reach a destination. >> the argument is so complex you come to understand anything about this, you can see is clearly in the context of the british colonization of ireland. people were denied basic rights. part of the agreement phase was -- the destination. -- the government down the destination. which i think is a huge breakthrough. -- in ireland or with union. and we didn't have that

mechanism on the green friday agreement. -- attacked more often by the irish republican army. they felt this was happening because the british soldiers have been feeding the i.r.a. badly in the cities and towns. thus forcing the terrorists out into the countryside near their hideouts in southern ireland. in general, the soldiers work has bolstered public confidence. this is help pave the way for political developments which raise hopes for peace after four years of bloodshed. >> what does that mean, 25 years later? do you personally, and also to northern ireland? >> it was a great moment for american diplomacy and leadership to help and the conflict it took 3700 lives. one after another, for so many years.

the damage and the distrust and the division was so deep, and to see what consistent diplomacy can actually produce, people who are very different opposing ideas about what they want for their own future will take risks to compromise to get to peace. >> the chance to live in peace and raise children out of the shadow of fear. >> today's about the promise of a bright future and a day when we hope -- can be drawn under the bloody past. >> -- from the united states, a lot of the european union has made a huge difference in this place. it's going well and it can be far better. it's not about if we get this move to the next stage. >> what -- is a poison and we should eradicate that from our

thoughts and from our hearts and move forward on the basis of -- dignity and respect and treat people the way you want to be treated yourself. >> how difficult was it for you to talk to members of your party and the british public, to talk to the royal family and say we're gonna sit down with with sinn fein. we're gonna sit down with terry adams. we're gonna sit down also with people who are responsible for the killing of people that you knew and loved? >> it was a very difficult because i sat with people, the families of those that were killed, i want to say to them? you say you are sitting down with -- >> murderer. >> with my child's hardware. and you're shaking hands with them. and in the end it is strange, the interesting thing about imitators a divided into two categories. people who just could not forgive you, fourth and the people who said okay, i understand.

and provided you can tell me that if you get this agreement, that somebody is not going to suffer like i have suffered, their child is not going to like my child died, then you do it. >> a year old catherine hammill who's innocent welcome to the president turned sad when she spoke of the death of her father, murdered in their home when she was six months old and her mother's arm. losing a father in the war of catholics versus protestants. >> night first daddy died in the troubles. it was the saddest day of my life. i still think of him. now it is nice and peaceful, and i -- peace and quiet for change instead of shooting is killing. my wish is at peace and level last in ireland forever. >> when they, talk here, about the troubles, it is often capitalized in vivid in recent memory. the president tried today to capitalize on this visit to -- the peace in promising island a partner. >> if you and that are

determined a build of peace. then, units to america will probably stand with you. >> tell you, what just an extraordinary piece stale. extraordinary leadership, extraordinary carriage. irish politicians and british politicians and of course and hillary clinton, who of course not only went on to be a senator, secretary of state, but also the first woman to be the chancellor of queens university and belfast. right after i interviewed president clinton, as he was leaving, the secretary of state was coming in mister president, the chancellor. they have a big laugh and an

extraordinary piece, dale, to celebrate. still ahead, more on the major story of the. de tucker carlson's outing fox news, thinking that bill maher may have pinpointed a tax and what could've been a last draw for fox. we'll tell you what that, is next. hat that, is next the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

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tucker carlson, some of his new texts came out. call trump's lawyer sydney powell, who he was having another show, with giving credibility. two in the text he says she is -- a psychopath a liar and a [bleep] and the fox news spokesman said they are cherry-picking those tests text out of context. >> that was bill, my last friday, after fox's federal meant to dominion before the big news. today the separation of fox news and tucker carlson. that is -- not helpful at all. may have added to his. demise i'm curious what your final thoughts are about this huge news today. >> -- it is right.

tucker carlson, the story here is not a financial. stories on a business. story it is a culture, story a story about our politics. the question is whether rupert murdoch has desire to stay out of these courtrooms and not testify. desire to see republicans be able to win in 2024. we've seen this with desantis. finally deciding and told her that he is done with trump the big lie and all that kind of stuff. a symbolic moment of change for fox news. we don't know the answer to that question, we do know took a carlson's last news on the air. the entire episode of -- pizza streaming on the fox nation and we'll be back on monday with the friday night sendoff. >> you know what they told micah? when i decided to retire? she would know that it was my last day. on friday i would say, we'll see on monday. joe, hello and thank you. so much does it for this episode of -- presents. we will see you again tomorrow morning bright and early.

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