know my door is always open. but i don't know if that day will ever come. >> one murder, so many victims. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline. " i'm craig melvin. thanks for watching. ♪♪ this sunday, age-old problem. >> we now have to finish the one, and there's more to do. >> after officially launching his 2024 campaign focusing on

donald trump, president biden dismisses concerns about his age. >> i can't even say the number. it doesn't register with me. >> the idea that he would make it until 86 years old is not -- is not something that i think is likely. >> meanwhile, donald trump keeps his focus biden and the general election. >> he is grossly incompetent, has no idea what he's doing. >> are biden and trump in a co-department relationship? do they need each other in order to succeed in 2024? i'll talk to vivek ramaswamy, a republican entrepreneur running for the nomination. >> disney versus desantis. disney sues governor ron desantis accusing him of retaliating against the company. >> i don't think the suit has merit. i think it's political. >> republicans are distancing themselves from the issue as the battle escalates. >> i do worry if this happens

too many times, businesses that areallying about coming to florida are thinking maybe we don't want to go there. and border surge. the biden administration are bracing for a potential wave of migrants when the covid era policy ends in two weeks. >> it will not be open after may 11th. >> this is irresponsible. >> will biden's new homeland policy make a difference? i'll speak to alejandro mayorkas. >> trying to honor his legacy. luke russert his written a new book about how he dealt with sudden loss of his dad. joining me for insight, yamiche alcindor. former democratic senator from missouri, claire mccaskill, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, and lahnee chen, a fellow at the hoover institution. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the long of-running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd.

a good sunday morning. it was ten years ago this very month that the senate's so-called gang of eight rolled out an immigration reform plan that they believed could finally pass congress. >> we all wish we didn't have this problem, but we do and we have to fix it because leaving things the way they, that's the real angle. >> i think 2013 is the year of immigration reform. >> it was not and the laws haven't changed. donald trump would launch his political campaign building his entire identity with the issue of being tough on immigration and tough on the border. trump even promised the wall off the nation's 2,000-mile southern border, and while the wall doesn't materialize, the deterrence at the border instituted policies that included separating migrant children from their parents and instituting the remain in mexico program, which sent migrants back to mexico while seeking u.s. asylum.

biden endorsed a sweeping immigration plan on his very first day in office, but the plan went nowhere even though democrats controlled both houses of congress at the time. instead the immigration criticized a transit ban, which would force some migrants to apply for asylum from their home countries. as biden runs for a second term the immigration issue, which he never mentioned this week, continues to be one of his toughest challenges. in 2021, more migrants crossed the southern border more than any year since 1960, and in 2022, the record was broken again. in two weeks title 42 that has allowed both the bind and trump administrations that expelled most migrants since march 2020 allegedly to prevent the spread of covid will expire, and the u.s. relationship with mexico, the government, that is, has perhaps never been worse with the cooperation of the drug war at the lowest point.

fentanyl, which is produced in mexico with chemicals sourced from china, is now the leading cause of death for people from ages 18 to 49 according to "the washington post". the biden administration announced new steps to stem the migration including opening new centers in guatemala, creating a new program, and alejandro mayorkas acknowledged there would be a border surge, but he also said it does not mean more migrants should come. >> the smugglers propaganda is false. let me be clear. our border is not open and will not be open after may 11th. >> and secretary mayorkas joins me now. mr. secretary, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, truck. >> before i start on this,

there's been a horrific execution-style shooting down in texas. authorities are now searching and there's a manhunt for someone who is armed and dangerous. i know you've been monitoring this. dhs is monitoring this. what can you tell us about the alleged suspect, francisco yore or oh pay za. >> i can assure you that law enforcement will deliver accountability. the case is an active one under investigation and i can't comment further. >> there is a question about his citizenship. he supposedly had -- they refer to it as a consulate card from mexico meaning he was here legally, but perhaps he'd overstayed? >> chuck, i won't comment on it because it is an active case. the tragedy that occurred, you described it correctly just absolutely horrific. our hearts go to the victims, the victims' families, those children, and we'll deliver accountability. >> do we know if federal authorities are involved besides fbi and local authorities and is your team involved? border patrol at all? >> we are monitoring the

situation carefully, but the fbi is the lead investigative agency and working with the locals there. let me move to the announcement and what's coming in life after 42. there is already reports of brownsville, texas, right now, shelters are overwhelmed. the cities of chicago and new york are already overwhelmed. what's may 12th going to look like if we're already overwhelmed before the expiration of title 42? >> a few things, chuck. first of all, this is a tough challenge and has been, as we've all recognized for years and years, we are seeing a level of migration not just the southern border, but throughout the hemisphere that is unprecedented. it is the greatest of migration in our hemisphere since world war ii. the president on day one delivered a solution. he delivered immigration reform legislation that we had hoped congress would act on swiftly. they haven't. within the constraints of a

broken immigration system, we are doing soo much. our approach is to build lawful pathways, cut out the ruthless smugglers, and deliver lawful pathways so people can access humanitarian relief without having to take the dangerous journey from their own countries, and at the same time, if they arrive at our southern if they arrive at our southern border in between ports of entry, we will deliver consequences. >> all right. i want to go through specific scenarios, an unaccompanied minor that comes on may 12th, what happens? >> we follow the law. the law provides that we take custody of that child, and we have 72 hours within which to transfer that unaccompanied child to the department of health and human services, and then it is for the department of health and human services, hhs, to identify a relative, a sponsor in the united states to whom they can transfer care of that child.

>> is at all -- do you accept the idea at all that that is considered a loop hole, to get into the country? >> chuck, we have to take a look at the humanitarian issue here. these are parents that are suffering such desperation when it's by reason of an authoritarian regime, tremendous violence, acute poverty, persecution that they are so desperate that they send their children to the southern border alone. we have, the law provides humanitarian relief for these children, and we enforce that law. >> all right, when a family comes to the border, if they've not done any of this profiling, not filed for an asylum plan, what happens to a family with children under the age of 18? >> so we will exercise our enforcement authorities in a tradition immigration context. remember, title 42 is a public

health authority, not an immigration authority, that was delivered in response to the covid-19 pandemic. when that ends on may 11th, we will use our immigration authorities under title 8 of the united states code. that family will be placed in immigration enforcement proceedings, removal proceedings. they will make a claim -- if they make a claim for relief, we will adjudicate that claim for relief swiftly. >> define swiftly. >> it could be days or weeks. it is not going to be months. >> because we've seen in new york, migrants are getting court dates in 20, 30, 40 days. how does that happen? are going to be able to exercise our immigration enforcement authorities. we've been precluded from doing so by a court. we sought to end title 42 long ago and title 42 does not deliver an immigration

consequence. title 8 of the united states code does. if an individual is removed under title 8, they will encounter an at least five-year bar on readmission into the united states. >> here's a question i have. there are 2 million asylum cases in the backlog right now. what happens to new asylum claims on may 12th? do they get put in line behind these 2 million cases? this is why the quick adjudication. i get it in theory. how is it going to work in practice when we're sitting on a 2 million-case backlog? >> we will focus on recent border crosses, but the point, the fundamental point is we have more than 2 million cases in an immigration backlog that has been building year over year over year. what a powerful example of a completely broken immigration system. we have got to fix it. we need legislative reform. >> what is a -- i've gone through this before. i know there's a comprehensive aspect that we need, but just

for border enforcement and migration, you need more money for what? you need more processing centers in country? besides columbia and guatemala, do you want to open centers in honduras? could you even open a center in venezuela, or you do trust the government to allow us to do that? >> chuck, we need resources for it all, but remember, the resources will enable us to move more quickly, more efficiently within a broken immigration system. so i just want to be clear that we are working within significant constraints. we need people. we need technology. we need facilities. we need transportation resources. all of the elements of addressing the needs of large population of people arriving irregularly at our southern border. >> what's the definition of a secure border to you? >> it is in the context in which we are working, it is maximizing the resources that we have available to us to deliver the

most effective results, and something that is overlooked that i speak about frequently is the fact that our apprehension rates at our southern border are consistent with the apprehension rates in the prior administration. and why is that? it is because of the extraordinary and extraordinarily heroic work of the united states border patrol, but the challenge is enormous. >> i want to ask you about the border patrol because the union doesn't like you, and they made it very clear on social media this month and last month, and this is all first border patrol. the chickens will come under roost because of what he's done. they call you a national disgrace. remove mayorkas was their most recent tweet. how can you lead a group of people whose union wants you out of office? >> chuck, i am proud to work

with the border patrol, and i've supported them vigorously since my first day in office, and i will continue to do so. a tremendous source of pride. >> what do you think the disconnect is? is this media perception? is this a red/blue divide? just simply that you're in a democratic administration? what do you think it is? >> chuck, i'm focused on mission. that's what i'm focused on. i look at their needs. i try to fulfill their needs. i go to congress and seek support. this is the first administration since 2011 that has plussed up the border patrol with more agents. our request of congress for fiscal year 2024 is another 350 border patrol agents. that hasn't happened forover 12 years. >> let's talk about the fentanyl issue. the biggest impediment in dealing with the fentanyl issue, is it americans' addiction? is it the mexican government's inability or frankly passe relationship with the cartels, or is it the fact that china so easily exports these materials?

what's the toughest aspect of this? >> chuck, it's a matter of supply and a matter of demand, no different than the scourge of drugs that has afflicted this country for decades. i will tell you, i was a federal prosecutor for 20 years. i prosecuted methamphetamine cases and black tar heroin and we haven't seen anything like fentanyl. it's toxicity. these cartels are peddling in death and destruction, but we have to stop the flow of fentanyl, and we also have to address the demand. >> in the '80s we covertly worked with the colombian government to deal with cartels in colombia and we had success. is it time to deal -- i know some people are calling for more direct military confrontation with these cartels and call them a terrorist organization but is it time to call for a strategy that we did similar to the

colombian cartels in the '80s? >> number one, we are taking it to the cartels with unprecedented strength and focus. there is a misperception that mexico is not a good partner in our fight against -- >> is that government an ally or not? they don't act like an ally these days. >> they are an ally. we have a close relationship with them. >> how come they don't help on the fentanyl stuff? >> that is a misconception. i will tell you we have transnational criminal investigation units, and they're in mexico. >> amlo denies it in public that somehow they're having anything to do with fentanyl trafficking. >> chuck, i can't speak to his public statements. i can speak through what happens on the ground, operationally and we work very closely with our mexican partners and that fentanyl, though, the precursor chemicals and the equipment used to manufacture it, much of it

originates in china, and we've got to stop that flow. >> what is a good way to do that? of course, our relationship with china is not very positive. we are working with our mexican authorities and we are working with our partners internationally to put pressure on china, to interdict the flow and to identify the transport companies, to cut off the finances, to hold individuals and companies accountable. >> i want to ask you, you're in cabinet meetings and there are a lot of questions about president biden and his ability to serve in his second term. you've seen him up close face-to-face. what say you? is he up for a second term? >> oh, chuck, 100%. incredibly sharp and incredibly probing and incredible command on the details and probing on the details and asking tough questions, absolutely. i'm incredibly proud to serve in his administration. i am incredibly proud of the work that we have done across the border. >> you have full confidence he

can serve, secretary. >> 100%. >> secretary mayorkas, a big task ahead of you. >> we look forward to it. >> when we come back, he's the youngest candidate running for president in 2024. vivek ram as royny, a millennial businessman running for a republican nomination joins me next. g for a republican nomination joins me next

welcome back. as america debates how old is too old t as america debates how old is too old to be president, the youngest candidate that's announced in the 2024 field is currently introducing himself to voters. vivek ramaswamy is a 37-year-old multi millionaire who graduated from harvard law school and yeah. he made his fortune in biotech and ran an asset management company that calls itself anti-woke. a first-time candidate, he plans to start an anti-woke cultural movement. >> we're in the middle of a national identity crisis. that leaves a vacuum in its wake, and when you have a vacuum

that runs that deep, that is what poison fills the void. pick your favorite one, wokism, transgenderism, climatism, covidism. >> and vivek ramaswamy joins me now. mr. ramaswamy, welcome back. actually welcome to sunday "meet the press." >> thank you. good to see you again, chuck. >> let me start with this look. you have anti-wokeism, and this is your political identity as you've introduced yourself to folks. i get it in the primary. why are you convinced that this message can work if you have the nomination in the general election. >> i think it's true for all americans. we are all hungry for a cause here in america. we are hungry for purpose and means at a point when the things that used to fill our hunger for purpose, patriotism, family, hard work, these things have disappeared. so i see an opportunity to revive our missing national identity. i think that's something that americans hunger for across the political spectrum, answering what it means to be an american today. you ask people my age that

question, and you get a blank stare in response. that is the vacuum at the heart of the national soul. i'm running for president to revive the ideals that actually set the nation into motion, and i think that will unite the country. >> you know, it's interesting. your rhetoric can sound uniting and your answer just now, but then you say the following thins. the trans movement has become a cult. we need to abandon climate religion in america. i definitely find the idea of systemic racism revolting. how do you square those statements with unification? these are divisive times. this is a polarizing time. we are pretty evenly divided on these cultural issues, and how do you unite the country when you're essentially denigrating the views of half the country? >> i don't think i'm denigrating the views of half the country and let's take the touchiest of the subjects right now, the trans issue. i think when a child is born and says my gender does not match my

sex, more often than not, that's the case of a mental health disorder. that doesn't mean you disrespect that person. that is a cry for help. i met with two women going through hysterectomies and chemical intervention, now trying to teach kids across the country when you're struggling inside, going through adolescence, yes, that involves some struggle, and we live in a country where adults are affirming that. >> do you ever talk to parents who have a kid going through this? yes, i actually have. it's a difficult place to be. i acknowledge that. what we need to do is act with compassion and not what makes us feel good about ourselves, and that is my main issue across the issue like clie manhattan and solving the actual underlying issues rather than what allows you to signal your virtue.

>> what makes it compassionate, though, to pass a law that denies a parent making their own health care decision for their kid. that doesn't sound very conservative and small government. >> there isn't a state in the union that allows you to smoke a cigarette before the age of 18 and get a tattoo before the able of 18. that's a body-altering change that a kid may regret later in life. i think it's fair to say after 18 years old, you are free to do whatever you want to, and that's what it means to live in a free country, and we won't allow chemical castration through puberty blockers. >> you're calling that. how do you know? are you confident that you know that gender is as binary as you're describing it? are you confident? >> i am. >> do you know this as a scientist? >> there are two x chromosomes. if you're a woman and an x and a y. >> there is a lot of scientific research that says gender is a spectrum. >> i respectfully disagree, it has been characterized as a mental health disorder, and i

don't think it's compassionate to confirm that. i think it's cruelty. when a kid is crying out for help, you have to ask what else is going wrong at home? what else is going wrong at school, and let's be compassionate and get to the heart of that rather than play the game rather than changing the medical understanding. >> i go back to this. if a parent is dealing with a child that may have these issues, trust me, the parent -- the last thing they want to do is consider something like this, but if that is what they think could help their child pursue happy finance or not to kill themselves, why take away that option? again, why shouldn't it be up to the parent? >> part of why parents suddenly now feel that way is we've created a culture that teaches parents that they're being bigoted or bad people if they don't actually take those steps. so part of what i think -- listen, gender dysphoria for the rare few people who suffer it is a condition of suffering. my question is why on earth are

we going out of our way to create more of it, and there's no doubt that the cultural movement in the country is creating more gender dysphoria if it's a condition of suffering, let's not create more. >> let me ask you about the disney with ron desantis. on one hand, i agree with pushing back on disney the way desantis has rhetorically, but is there a point when you think it's too much to use government to punish business? >> here's where ron desantis really lost it here, he's gone on the wrong path. he's claimed -- and this part actually sounded good to me. disney should have never had crony capitalist lobbying privileges in the first place. here's the part he didn't mention. one of those crony capitalist privileges and the most relevant one was codified into law by none other than ron desantis in 2021. so florida passed this political anti-discrimination statute, which i applauded at the time, which if you operated streaming companies like disney does, that you can't discriminate.

here's the funny little dirty secret in that. they wrote a last-minute exemption for anyone who operates a theme park more than 25 acres in the state of florida. that's crony capitalism. and the irony is ron desantis who is rolling that back was the one who actually passed that into law for the case of disney. so i think that undermines the credibility of his crusade. i prefer to get to root causes rather than do political stunts. >> let me ask you about the idea of cancel culture because i feel like the criticism that the right was making of the left two years ago, that it looks like some on the right are embracing cancel culture. bud light. the transgender representative in montana who was kicked -- not allowed to speak on the floor. do you think some of this is going too far? >> look, i'm an opponent of victim culture, cancel culture, and victim hood. i wrote a book.

i do think the way the culture war ends is not with a bang, but with a whimper where both sides get affected by the same norms. >> do you think the right has been affected. >> we have to be the party of free speech and open debate and not the party of i'm here talking to you on nbc. there are other candidates on in the race who say they won't talk to nbc news. ron desantis is one of them. i go to college campuses where other candidates refuse to go. i think we have to practice what we preach. i'm in the race as a millennial, as a young person who lives the american dream to walk the walk when it comes to free speech, and, yes, i would like to see other candidates rise to the occasion and do better this fall. >> if donald trump doesn't do debates will you not support him if he's not the nominee. >> i won't let him get away with it. >> what do you mean? you're not going to let donald trump get away with it? he can do what he wants to do. >> i think others like donald trump will relish being on the stage. what people gave him credit for was that he is an outsider and disrupter. i'm the outsider in this race, and if you want to be like joe

biden in existing establishment that doesn't want to debate. >> what should the party use as leverage to show him to show up? >> i think it's the voters, and it's my job and the job of candidates that if you want someone sitting across the table from xi jinping and someone with a spine to take on the state at the top of the agenda, you better not be scared to show up on the debate stage with a new challenger. donald trump did a great job of that in 2016. i'm a big supporter of that. >> you would support a six-week abortion ban if governor of the state. what would you do on a federal level? would you create a floor? >> i believe in being principled and i'm unapologetically pro-life, and i believe abortion is a form of murder. murder is regulated by the states and not by the federal government. i believe in the constitution. i believe roe was wrongly decided and this is a matter for the states and not the federal government. i stand on principle there. >> when does a fetus have constitutional rights? >> six weeks at the end of life

when you lose brain waves and that's our moment of death. >> where in the constitution says someone has constitutional rights as a fetus? >> it's not codified in the constitution and that's why it's a matter for the states, and i do believe that i'm unapologetically pro-life, and one of the ways we can do better is to walk the walk. provide a way for women to get to yes, i support adoption, child care and greater responsibility for men and that's how we turn this issue from being a device of one. >> one of your biggest applaud lines that's a head scratcher is defund the fbi. >> i think it's a new apparatus that respects the law instead of making it up. the funny thing -- >> do you think the fbi constantly making up the law? they say huge charge. they have been able to stop fentanyl, get rid of fentanyl. there's a lot of work that the fbi does other than respond to complaints from elected

officials who don't like investigations. >> if you look over the course of the last 60 years, j. edgar hoover what he did to martin luther king, that was an affront. it's still the j. edgar hoover fbi that people walk down the street in washts washington, dc, and i personally believe that people who run the executive branch of the government when you have a bureaucracy whose culture's somehow ossified every once in a while, you need to turn it over and, yes, you need law enforcement, and that institution has become so ossified in its corruption that we need to build it from scratch. >> so you will replace the fbi with a new fbi? >> a new institution to carry out the federal law enforcement because the existing fbi and the people who worked there have worked there are if so long that they'll be getting in their own way is important. >> it does sound like you're

just replacing the fbi with the fbi. >> the problem is there are people who worked there for decades and if i'm the u.s. president and i can't work for the government for more than eight years which is a good thing then none the bureaucrats should either. vivek ramaswamy, we'll be following it. thanks for coming on and sharing your views with us. our "meet the press" minute, when president biden re-announced his campaign, his age immediately became the issue. biden would be 82 if he were to win. trump would be 78, second oldest president ever elected. the average age of the president at the start of the first term is 55. back in 1975 then-president gerald ford who was 62 at the time, mind you, talked about the role age played in his own upcoming election. >> here we are looking at 76, and most of the meeting candidates are geezers like me in their 60s. now we seem to have misplaced a generation here somewhere. is the system out of phase? what explains this? >> i think age is a state of mind and obviously a state of health.

i'm in the early 60s. i feel vigorous mentally and physically as i have at any time in my life. i don't think you should rule a person out just because of their -- my particular age. on the other hand, i don't think you should rule out a younger person who by experience or intelligence or overall capability is a potential candidate. >> that was 48 years ago. when we come back, it's an extremely co-dependent relationship. why the plt and ex-president need each other to run their 2024 campaigns. the panel is next. their 2024 campaigns the panel is next. your projects done right

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welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news washington correspondent yamiche alcindor. ryan nobles, lanhee chen, fellow at the institution and claire mccaskill. yamiche, when we saw the announcement video from joe

biden, it was not about what he did. it felt like it is about who he's running against again, and it felt very much almost like -- and even referenced the first video. he really needs donald trump to be the nominee, and donald trump responded this thursday by focusing on him. are they in a co-dependent relationship? >> there is definitely benefits to having both of those men run against each other in both of their minds, and i also think democrats are coming to the realization that the culture war is that democrats should be robustly talking about because their voters are mobilized by that. the first few minutes of that video were january 6th, abortion, and then you got into book-banning. having talked to voters, democrats are very worried about their own freedoms and want to wrestle that word back from republicans. and you see joe biden in the video making that case and making sure that people say, okay, you might have done

something for the inflation and the bills, but your life is at stake and i think there's fear, frankly, that's leaned into there which you also saw on the republican side. >> ryan, what's interesting to me is on your beat in congress, you're seeing members in each party start to focus on the other. politically for us, it's helpful if former president trump is front and center. then you look at republicans dave carney, biden is an easy target and wesley hunt, two more years of this, i'm more and more confident every day. it's fascinating both parties think the other guy is what keeps them going. >> i've covered a number of political campaigns where you set the stage saying the only person that can beat this candidate is this guy, and the only guy that can beat this candidate is the other guy, and it does seem in many ways that that is what this presidential campaign is shaping up to be. the polls -- the poll that we just conducted this week shows pretty clearly that most americans do not want to see either of these two guys at the top of the ticket right now, but

we're in a situation where there aren't clear alternatives, and if you go back to having this conversation, if it's not president biden, who is it? his stranglehold on the republican base which i see every single day particularly in the house of representatives is so strong the idea that there would be some sort of republican alternative in a serious way right now just doesn't appear to be that clear. >> claire, if trump weren't there, would there be more democratic hand wringing? >> oh, i don't know. i don't think so. would joe biden run no matter what? yes, he would. inflation is down 40%. he's created more jobs than almost any president in the history of our country. he got the infrastructure bill through that donald trump kept talking about for weeks and weeks on end. so he has accomplishments, and i think he enjoys the job, and i think he would run no matter what. no question. but this is another thing,

chuck, that people forget. this is never a referendum. presidential elections by the time they come around, who do you like slightly better than the two you don't like? >> yeah. >> it is a binary choirks and even if it's not trump extremism is on the ballot this time around, whether they like it or not? >> it's a choice, not a referendum. it's a choice, not a referendum. i always like to say that, and both of the times this century, claire is right, it's been the case. lanhee, i don't think they're interested in having a primary, do you? >> it doesn't feel that way right now. it's funny because we're pretty late in the primary cycle, but it still feels early. >> people will say that. it's early. it's not. >> the reality of it is i think the way this field, the way that this contest is shaping up, it's pretty clear, people realize it will be one ticket against trump, trump will be there at the end of the day. the question at the end of the

day is who will the other person be? governor haley and governor desantis. and you are starting to see people go after ron desantis because they perceive, listen, this is an opportunity to be that other voice against donald trump when we get to early next year. >> i guess, but boy, ron desantis, you now have republicans almost universally criticizing his handling of the disney thing and there are an array of republicans critiquing him. >> i don't think building a prison next to the place that you bring your family is the best idea. >> i do worry if this happens too many times businesses that are thinking about coming to florida are saying maybe we don't want to go there. >> if disney wants to move their hundreds of thousands of jobs to south carolina and bring their billions of dollars with them, i'll be happy to let them. i'll be happy to meet them. >> i don't agree how disney has handled things, but you don't use the heavy hand of government to punish a business. >> ryan, the number two candidate is getting the pile on right now and not the front-runner. >> i talked to desantis advisers about, this and there is a

recognition about how he's being pillared right now by not just republicans, but democrats as well and what they're saying is just wait for him to get in the race. he's amassing a huge war chest right now both within a super pac and he has the ability to raise a lot of money as a candidate himself, and so their feeling is until he's actually a candidate, we really shouldn't be overstating the difficulty that he's having in this early part of the campaign. >> yamiche, was there a former florida governor who had so much money that was going to be a huge factor in 2015. how did that work out? >> famous last name. that didn't work out very well, and when you look at ronny desantis -- and i've talked to conservatives about this, going to war with disney, not only does it look petty and small, but you're also going after a huge employer of blue collar people who will be your base voters, and disney is telling

employees, this is a problem, and here is the person that will make your life hard. it will be hard for ron desantis. >> is this over before this begins? i know no one wants to say it, but it smells rough. >> it's not by him getting in the race. the question is these primary contests are sort of battles of attrition and infrastructure building and all of the stuff that doesn't get covers, he has the money to be able to compete in a way that people need to pay attention still. look, the last couple of weeks have been uneven, there's no question about it, but that's not what i pay attention to. >> claire, barack obama was in this position against hillary clinton, maybe he's not going to get there. do you see any similarities, or do you think desantis is in a different spot? >> you cannot compare desantis to people who have been tested on a national stage like hillary clinton and barack obama. this guy is not ready. he declared war and he doesn't know what victory is. mickey mouse, give me a break. when we come back, our latest nbc new poll reveals why they may be an poernt test for candidates in 2024. be an poernr candidates in 2024

♪♪ ♪♪ welcome back. "data download" time. as we head into 2024, the culture wars are dominating the conversation right now as we continue to debate what kind of country we should become and how quickly that change should happen. numbers from our most recent nbc news poll suggests the nation is pretty open to social change, and that possibly could give democrats an advantage with some of these cultural issues among the national electorate. let me show you what i'm talking about here. do we need to do more to increase social justice and this

is a popular expression of support overall and 70% of americans agree with that, and believe it or not, there's not a ton of differences by party. 91% of democrats agree with it, but 67% of independents look like the country as a whole. half of republicans think we need to do more to increase social justice. we start to ask more and should we be more tolerant of the lgbtq community? overall that's 61% and slightly less than the social justice number. and here you see some divergence. democrats and independents both have majorities and we believe we should be more tolerant. and republicans, an outlier, just 38%, and a lot of that drishen by the transissue of late. and in part, on the issue of transpeople, have we gone too far in accepting trans people

who in the country half agree with the statement that we've gone too far, 48%. you start to look at it by party. you see a disparity that goes the other way. just 19%, democrats believe that, but independents look like the nation overall, nearly 80% of republicans believe we have gone too far on that, but i want to give you a historical nugget here to keep something in mind and it's the historical trend line of the legalization of same-sex marriage. less than 20 years ago it was two to one opposition to same-sex marriage and in less than 20 years those numbers completely flipped and something in the poll, if you knew somebody who was gay 20 years ago you were more likely to support same-sex marriage and if you know someone who is trans you are more likely to support that, as well. up next, grieving for his father and trying to honor his legacy, luke russert has written a new book on how he dealt with the sudden loss of his dad. dea the sudden loss of his dad

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welcome back. at a crowded orioles game at camden yards, luke russert remembers his dad tim pointing

to a hot dog stand saying, buddy, if we're ever separated, look for me there. when tim died of a heart attack in 2008, luke followed him to nbc news becoming a correspondent here. after working eight years in television, luke didn't have a good question on why he was chasing his father's legacy. he traveled to six continents searching for his father and for himself and luke russert, author of "look for me there," grieving my father and finding myself. welcome back to "meet the press." >> it is such an honor. i still get chills every time i see the logo and hear the music it's pretty special. >> i get chills introducing you right now, i'll be honest. >> yeah. >> you were 22 when your dad died. >> yeah. >> it seems that you're looking back now and realizing you didn't process it then. >> yeah. >> talk about it. >> well, he died, and it was such a whirlwind of emotions. and we came back to washington.

my mother and i were in italy when it happened, which turned out to be a blessing because we had one day to ourselves as a family, as mother and son to process what happened. >> he was with you two days before he passed. >> he was two days before he passed at the vatican, which is so fitting considering my father's catholic upbringing, but when we came back, we thought people would mourn him. we had no idea that there would be such a national outpouring of grief and there were thousands of people at his wake and i gave a eulogy at the kennedy center and it catapulted me into a very public forward-facing space that i was still trying to reconcile what should i do. i think in the beginning -- >> weeks from graduating college? >> three weeks. >> i had graduated college and about three weeks later i'm looking out over a set of pews barack obama, ethel cane, and it was surreal.

>> it is still surreal. >> i began thinking 22-year-old luke, you had so much courage and so much poise and you never dealt with you lost your dad and you lost your best friend, and you went into this immediate public-facing role because you were trying to preserve his legacy the best you knew and trying to bring comfort to people, but it ultimately did not bring comfort to you. >> you wrote something they thought was pretty brave about yourself. you write this, it's apparent that i've spent so much time honoring his legacy that i've never truly accept his death and worse, i failed to forge my own life. >> yeah. >> that's a pretty brave thing to fight publicly, buddy. >> one of the things that i found going through this process was i had written out all these journals when i was traveling around the world, and i didn't know really what was in them, but when i took the time to read them, i realized i was looking for something, and what i was looking for on this journey is who am i independent of my parents? who am i independent of my

hometown? and who am i independent of the ways of washington? and i was never all to troubaly figure that out because i was so attached to my dad. he was my guiding light. he's gone, and i try to stay in that lane, but i never really asked the difficult questions of who are you? what do you want to do? because it was greatly uncomfortable and to ask those questions i would have to deal with the fact that he was really gone which was something i tried to power through and white knuckle and not power through too much. >> of all people it's john boehner. >> yeah. >> did he flip a switch in your head? what did he say to you that made you say, wait a minute? >> i was turning 30. i lost a good friend of mine at 27, and my father dade at 58, and i saw the light at the end of the tunnel and friends were getting married and getting mortgages. i kept thinking, is this what's going to happen to me in my life? is this what i want? there are so many days when i would white knuckle it through on television? why is that? maybe i should take time away

and john boehner, who i covered aggressively said i need to talk to you. i thought he was going to be angry about coverage. he takes me into his office and says, what are you doing here? i said, you invited me into your office. what do you mean what am i doing here? he said you spent all your 20s here. i'm the speaker of the house, and i'll tell you something. there is a world outside of washington. there is a world outside of this place, the capitol, time is a flat circle here. you can end up 50, 60 years old and not even know that time has gone by. make sure this is what you want to do and go out and do something else if you want. it's okay. go learn how to do something and part of it i think was that washington can be fleeting and the connections that you make with people can be purely political, go out there and really understand human beings. it was a very impactful statement because boehner group one of 12 children and catholic upbringing and very similar to

my father and worked his way through college, and it didn't fall on deaf ears, and i was shaken up by it. >> anyone who has lost anyone close to them, this is a book that can help. it is not easy about your mom. your mom is still here doing great. maureen is a force of nature. i love her to death, i know you do, too. how's this changed things for you two? >> when one parent dies, your relationship with the surviving one for the child always changes. in my case it was this mix of you're now the sort of man of the house. there are all these logistical things that dad used to also take care of and sometimes it's, you're my son, just do it. so it was trying to navigate this pattern of where really are you in the structure? and also as a mom, she was more sort of the disciplinarian where my dad was the good cop/bad cop. he was the easier guy to get along with at some points. but then i realized when i started traveling -- my mother was a peace corps volunteer at a

very young age. when women had limited opportunities and she said i want to go to the peace corps and it is through travel and measuring yourself against the world that she really knows who she is and she'd wanted me to do that my entire life. i had never really travel, and it was not until i did i understood her. she had to fight so hard for everything she got, and that's why she demanded a lot out of me. she said you have to be tough and you need to find yourself. >> do you think you found yourself? >> i think we're always trying to do that, and in terms of making peace with my dad, i am so much better. i hope this open up opportunities in that area. >> nice to see you. >> thank you for having me, chuck. it is such an honor. >> the honor is mine. >> appreciate it. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." i don't care if he was here legally. i don't care if he was here