so we're always here for you. 6:00 p.m. eastern. "the beat" on msnbc, but we're around 24/7 on tiktok. >> ain't no regular chocolate. it's fancy chocolate. >> it's the good stuff. >> election night in america that can only mean one thing -- the legend at the maps, steve kornacki. >> go bing bong. >> bing bong. >> that's it. >> here we are trucking. this is what it looks like when we do a news show on the road. >> got called in. >> you seem great, but i would be more happy. >> we're in brooklyn. >> yeah, we're in brooklyn. >> if it's friday -- >> hey. >> hey. it's all real. and you can connect with me @arimelber on tiktok. "the reidout" with joy reid

starts now. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> when honest people say what's true, calmly and without embarrassment, they become powerful. at the same time, the liars who have been trying to silence them, shrink and they become weaker. that's the iron law of the universe. true things prevail. >> yes, indeed. true things do prevail, tuck'ems. you are repulsively racist as the guy you once played on tv. now, add hospital waiting room to the ever-expanding list of places where you can be shot and killed in gun-crazy america. senator raphael warnock is here to talk about today's deadly shooting in atlanta. and we've got the latest on texas republicans unprecedented push to give one hand picked official the power to overturn election results in the state's largest democratic-leaning county. ♪♪ we begin tonight with how

white nationalist receipts can get you fired. even from fox. "the new york times" reports, damning text messages tucker carlson sent to a producer after he watched a video of trump supporters attacking a, quote, antifa kid, led fox management to say, yeah, he's got to go. the text exchange occurred a day after the january 6th insurrection. according to the texts, according to the times, the texts were redacted in the court filings in the dominion case. but the contents were disclosed in interviews with several people close to the defamation suit against fox. representative for tucker told the times he had no comment. fox also did not respond to our request by the times for comment. the texts are revealing for the man who made white replacement theory standard fair on fox and in the republican party. tucker texted he recently watched a video which a group of trump guys surrounded an antifa kid and started pounding the living s out of him. it was three against one, at

least. jumping a guy like that is dishonorable. it's not how white men fight. did you catch that, not how white men fight. okay. he continues. yet suddenly i found myself rooting for the mob against the man. hoping they would hit him harder, kill him. i really wanted them to hurt the kid. i could taste it. then something deep in my brain, an alarm went off. this isn't good for me. i'm becoming something i don't want too be. the antifa creep is a human being, much as i despite what he says and does, as much as u i'm sure id hate him personally if i knew him. i shouldn't ghoet over his suffering. that kind of weird, odd, 19th century genesis talk should be of no surprise to anyone who has seen what is arguably the show of record for white grievance. >> white supremacy, that's the problem. this is a hoax. we're still not precisely sure how george floyd died. very few unarmed black men are killed by white cops these days. where is george floyd when you

need him. the only job training program this administration has gotten behind in two and a half years is getting black people to sell more weed in the city. dangerous to this country. y, poorer, dirtier and more divided. >> when people show you who they are, believe them, the great maya angelou said. similarly, journalist adam d, l believe tucker carlson is exactly who he appeared to be, which is racist. and also a violence-loving weirdo. and this is not how white men fight? what does that even mean? white men don't fight unless it's some civilized duel with antique pistols? what about when they fought on january 6th, beating the hell out of police, tasing, bear spraying and trying to kill them? white men don't fight like that, tucker? what about the atrocities waged by europeans like the holocaust or the u.s. army's war against native americans that helped to

wipe 90% of indigenous people off this continent. they sliced out of native people's scalps in the name of civilization. what about slavery? seemed violent to me. history books are still legal, tucker. or lynching. mob violence. torture. using giant hoses and police dogs on young people fighting for basic human rights. no people on this earth are immune from violence in their histories's tucker. what about your boy, vladimir putin, and what he's doing to ukraine? they're literally raping women and stealing children. that is how they're fighting. please explain, tucker. oh, that's right. you can't. you don't have a tv show anymore because fox news had a problem with this particular text. which "the new york times" said, sent off a panic at the highest levels of fox on the eve of its billion dollar defamation trial, which is interesting. and also confusing. it is an alarming text, make no mistake, gross even, but not exactly revealing. the net work had no problem with

the racist vile tucker admitted on its air in primetime every night. in fact, tucker's hate parade was ratings gold which is why fox tolerated and encouraged it. which brings us to the question, how would this one text message change anything? did fox finally see what millions of americans along with the anti-defamation legal, lgbtq and black lives matter activists have been screaming from the keyboards for years? doesn't seem likely. perhaps what fox management really feared was a spectacle of tuck'ems reading that text and others on the stand in the upcoming trials they're still facing, proving his on air screams weren't just an act and tucker was just as racist, misogynistic, xenophobic and horrible behind the scenes as he was on tv. that his thoughts about violence and race were real, not pretend. and that they weren't just for entertainment. that was the fact just too damaging. even for a network that is hooked on lies. i'm joined now by tara, lincoln

project senior adviser, former republican communications director and uva center for politics scholar. and charlie psychs. editor at large for the bullwork and msnbc columnist and contributor. i'll start with you, charlie. we lived in the world of talk radio for a time. and there is a certain amount of outrageousness in talk radio that is encouraged. on fox, the level of it was -- it was rush limbaugh times ten. he was saying stuff that used to be considered just straight up white nationalism. and they didn't have a problem with that. why do you think this one text about him saying that's not how white men don't fight, which is a very odd thing to say, by the way, in the 21st century. why do you think that got him bounced? >> yeah. i'm not buying this actually, joy. i think you laid out the reasons why. you know, i think ari made the point in the last hour. so we're supposed to believe that fox executives and board members were shocked, shocked to find out that their leading star was a racist. i mean, think about all the

things he said on the air. you played a small montage of what he did night after night after night. there's no secret about this. this is who tucker carlson is. none of that caused them to move to fire him. we're supposed to believe now that this one text message just was so shocking and appalling that they had to pull the trigger. i'm not buying this because they have tolerated so much. i think obviously there's a campaign out there, pr campaign. and i'm certainly not going to come to tucker carlson's defense here, but this is not what did it. they cannot justify keeping him on the air while he was pushing the great replacement theory and saying the things he was saying night after night. "new york times" did a big front page story saying that this was the most racist show in the history of cable television and tucker carlson thought that was a big joke. are we supposed to believe the murdochs didn't see that story, didn't know what they were putting out on the air. i'm sorry. i'm not buying the fact that this was the smoking text that did tucker in. >> i'm with you.

let me just read this. this is from the new yorker, from april edition of the new yorker. this is how powerful this guy was. both the management against -- the movement against the teaching of critical race theory and the right-wing interest in victor orbane's hungary blossomed on carlson's show. jd vance road regular appearances on it to a seat in the u.s. senate. after senator cruz, carlson forced him to walk back that comment. carlson grilled govern greg abbott of texas why he hadn't called up more national guard soldiers to the board and abbott did it. people were so keen on diversities, someone should send undocumented immigrants there. not long after, ron desantis did it. the guy said i'm going to kill some black lives mat every people and then he did. i mean, i'll throw this over to you, tara. there's no evidence that fox news has any problem with people being racist on their tv. so why would this one text of

him saying, that's not how white men fight, why would that get him bounced? >> to charlie's point, i don't think that was the straw that broke the camel's back. i mean, fox news and rupert murdoch and all the people on fox's board including paul ryan, people who we thought were supposed to be reasonable and should have known better, they stood back and allowed this to go on for years. tucker carlson engaged in some of the most vile, racist language in this country that has done incredible damage to our democracy, to our culture. it's ripped apart families. people who during the trump era, you know, we talk about how families were -- couldn't talk to each other at thanksgiving anymore because of the divide. where do you think they were getting a lot of that propaganda and indoctrination from. it was straight from fox news and tucker carlson was the loudest megaphone. he was allowed to spew this garbage unvarnished, uncensored without rebuke for years. hundreds upon hundreds of episodes where he talked about the great replacement theory.

hundreds of episodes where he attacked people of color or dismissed white supremacy. dozens and dozens of episodes where he would use language that was curated straight out of the white supremacist right wing, far reaches of the internet from websites like v dare and other well-known disgusting extremist websites. he would use that type of language. and he mainstreamed it. he was the hero of white supremacists. he was the hero of these extremists on the right. and you look at how many -- in some of these cases where you had these horrific mass shootings that were inspired by xenophobia or racism or anti-semitism, how many of them used language that came out of either donald trump's mouth or tucker carlson's megaphone on fox news. so, this is who tucker carlson is. i'm not surprised by that. he's a despicable human being and we're seeing this on full display. let's not fox news get away with the fact that they financed it, they platformed it and continued

to do so because there are others on their network that spew similar language auditioning to replace tucker carlson. jessie waters, i'm talking to you. >> we did not plan this. let me just go ahead and play -- this is what's on their air now. this isn't like -- jessie waters did one of the classic, most racist segments ever, even made tucker carlson say hold my beer against chinese americans in the past. here is new jessie. here he is. >> now, i saw on the way into work an illegal immigrant family digging through the trash, looking for recyclings. >> how did you know they were illegal? >> you can tell. >> jesse. >> i can tell. i'm a city guy. >> i mean, charlie, that's what tucker gone. the whole network -- it's not like laura and jessie waters are like, good. now bier back to the paul ryan republican party. this is the paul ryan republican party at this point. >> well, you know, look. obviously the memo didn't go out

saying, you know, hey, no more overtly racist things like that. to tara's point, it's important to remember how uniquely maligned, how uniquely dangerous tucker carlson was. the kinds of theories that he mainstreamed. the kinds of things that the -- we're talking about pulling things from d dare. putting ideas out there that had been confined to the far reaches of the swarp. you mentioned paul ryan. i wrote an open letter to him more than a year ago in politico saying, paul, if you're going to take a stand, this would be the time and listing all the kinds of things that tucker carlson was saying on the air. i confronted him with it in february. he said he hadn't read it. we're talking about even in february paul ryan was saying, well, i disagree with tucker carlson. he knew what tucker carlson was doing. but until last week, nobody was willing to do anything about it. which is why my -- my b.s. meter is pretty high on this -- yes, they were shocked and appalled that he wrote this one thing about white men fighting because

just not -- >> you know why. you know why. >> of course. >> it was ratings. and we know that fox news monitors ratings all the way down to minute by minute, target groups. so they knew that fear and that this type of language, this idea of the other. that stuff was gold for them in ratings, unfortunately. because it preyed on the lowest common denominator of our culture. and that sold. so he was their golden goose. they were willing to sell out our country, our culture, our democracy all for ratings. that was the bottom line until it cost them almost a billion dollars. >> he was unsuccessful as a broadcaster until he discovered i can just take fourchan and put it on tv. he was there, rush limbaugh. by the way, you right now have jd vance saying this -- i don't like this idea of having fox move away from the maga movement. i think it would be a huge mistake if the network chose to

do that. i hope they stay loyal. stay loyal. he's telling them to keep doing it. keep selling out. keep lying about january 6th. and here is what abby grossberg had to say that were tucker's next plans. this is his next move. >> tucker is going to first have kevin on. hear him beg and gravel. then we'll bring in matt gaetz and matt gaetz will then kind of set his terms. then tucker will set his terms that mccarthy has to agree to. >> tucker carlson had terms for mccarthy. >> had terms, yeah, had terms. >> the challenge is, charlie, tucker believed rightly he controlled the republican party. jd vance, all the rest. they work for fox, right? and fox works for whoever the wildest people in their base are, the craziest. >> this is a key point because what you had here is tucker's hubris, the fact he had this over weaning sense of pride. he believed he was bigger than fox. he believed he was the king

maker. he believed that he could go on the air and make united states senators gravel because they would. he thought that he could -- that he could control the speakership of the house of representatives because, maybe he could. he could get the former president to do his bidding. but the problem is that in rupert murdoch's world, if it becomes clear that you, tucker carlson, think you are bigger than rupert murdoch, he's going to have to correct the record here. >> yeah. >> i think a lot of this -- the racism, the misogamy, the conspiracy theories, the putinism, that was not the deal breaker. the deal breaker was thinking that he was bigger than fox itself. >> and you know, i bet -- go ahead. real quick. >> and the republican party responded to it, to charlie's point. the speaker of the house owes his speakership to graveling and selling his soul to maga and their megaphone, right? who was tucker carlson. this is who kevin mccarthy gave 40,000 hours of january 6th footage to, who he sold out our

law enforcement officers to on that day and our democracy. that's who the republican party is now. >> and he would have gravelled on his show. let's just be clear. >> absolutely. >> if they had booked that segment, he would have done the whole segment on his knees graveling. >> on his belly. >> everybody knows it. >> everybody knows it. >> he had a lot of practice. >> everybody knows it. tara, charlie, that's real. thank you very much. up next on "the reidout," georgia senator raphael warnock is here to talk about how today's deadly shooting in atlanta hit him and his family very close to home. "the reidout" continues after this. me "the reidout" continues after this frustrated by skin tags? dr. scholl's has the breakthrough you've been waiting for. the first fda-cleared at-home skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. for copd, ask your doctor about breztri. breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems.

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another day in the united states of america, tragically means yet another mass shooting. this one in atlanta, georgia. at a medical facility. one person has died and four others are injured. police are still searching for the suspected gunman. just hours after the shooting broke, georgia senator raphael warnock gave an emotional speech on the senate floor. >> i feel this afternoon in a very real sense i feel it in my bones because my own two children were on lockdown this afternoon. i have two small children, and their schools were on lockdown, responding to this tragedy.

and they're there. i'm here. hoping and praying that they are safe. but the truth is, none of us is safe. as a pastor, i'm praying for those who are affected by this tragedy. but i hasten to say that thoughts and prayers are not enough. and in fact, in fact, it is a contradiction to say that you're thinking and praying and then do nothing. it is to make a mockery of prayer. >> joining me now is senator raphael warnock, democrat from georgia. senator, thank you so much for being here. my producers and i were watching that speech from the senate floor. and immediately called your staff because i think what you said was so profound and important, but i do want to ask about, you know, your kids and your community.

how is everyone doing? because we -- i'm not sure if the suspect has even been caught yet. >> thank you so very much, joy. always good to be with you. i'm sorry that it's yet again under these circumstances. another day in america, another mass shooting. tragically this has become our reality. and i am afraid that we have become numb to it. certainly inside of this building, which is why i thought it was so important for me to respond. i'm talking to folks i know on the ground in atlanta. people are texting me. they're traumatized. >> yeah. >> all of us are traumatized. >> well, i mean, i'm with you. my kids have been through lockdowns in florida when they were young. they're grown now. i'm sort of thankful that they're grown and not -- to be blunt, in a red state because i can't imagine how scary it is to take your children to school in this country right now,

particularly in states that are awash in guns. unfortunately as much as we love atlanta and georgia, your state is one of them. the gun laws in the state of georgia do not require background checks or permits to purchase handguns. they do not require a permit to carry a concealed gun in public. they do not require people with serious mental illness, they don't prohibit people with serious mental illness from having firearms. they do not prohibit people with violent misnortheastern convictions from having firearms and don't prohibit domestic abusers from having guns. the only place you can't bring a gun, courthouse, jail, place of worship unless the governing body or place of worship aplows it within an a polling place 150 feet inside a mental health facility, in a nuclear power facility or on to a school grounds. but you can take a gun almost everywhere else including into a bar. how is georgia safer with all of that? >> it's not. and ironically i'll tell you

this, long before coming into the senate, i was a pastor. i continue to serve. and as a pastor, engaged in my community, every year i went to the georgia legislature to address these terrible laws that made us ground zero kind of guns everywhere state. and here is the irony, joy. every time i went in the state office building or to visit a state legislature, to make my case, i had to go through metal detecters because guns are not allowed in the legislature. they seem to think it's safe in houses of worship and bars restaurants, but not where the legislatures work. and so here i am now in the united states senate. and there is a tragic disconnect between the conversation that's happening out in america and our failure to act here in the congress. this is an issue that i raised actually several days ago. and i have a commitment for the

work -- or at least to continue the conversations that we need to have over the next few days within our caucus about what we have to do. here is the thing, 87% of americans, according to a fox news poll, believe that there ought to be universal background checks. americans are closer on this issue left and right what's reflected and what we have been able to get done in our government. there's an increasing chasm between what the people want and what they can get from their own government. so this is at root of democracy problem. it's a spiritual problem. i won't rest until we get something done. i don't have to listen to my 6-year-old daughter as she did today having to explain to her dad that today a bad man was shooting and we were on lockdown. i never had to have that conversation as a kid with my dad. and i have an obligation as a father first of all to do something about it. >> as the young man i should note who is still on the loose,

military background, coast guard, 24 years old, was there with his mother and still shot and shot four people, most of those who were shot were women. one died. you were the crucial 51st broke that really broke the log jam inside of the united states senate for democrats on many issues. are there right now enough votes among your 51 member caucus to move aside the filibuster in order to pass the gun reform that you acknowledge and i know 80 plus percent of americans want, background checks, 21 year age minimum. the things that we all agree on. can that pass with 51 votes, at least get through a filibuster? >> well, last summer we passed gun safety legislation on a bipartisan basis. the first time in 30 years. and while that bill was modest,

it was an important step forward. and i think it was important for us to do that. and what we need to do now is to build on that work. because here is the thing, these shootings are happening all over america. it doesn't matter whether you live in a red state or a blue state. doesn't matter whether you're a democrat or republican. it certainly -- no respect person's skin color, a whole range of issues although people in color are endangered in different ways. this is impacting all of us n our houses of worship, whether we're in churches or mosques or temples. so we ought to be able to come together. i'm talking to all of my colleagues here in the senate, i'm not willing to let anybody off the hook. again, 87% of americans on the left and the right believe that we ought to have universal background checks and yet we have seen no movement here. and we need a coalition of conscience. we need ordinary people at the grass roots to keep doing what they're doing. and as they fight on the

outside, there are those of us who will be fighting the fight on the inside. >> are there nine republicans who will join 51 democrats or are there 50? we snow kyrsten sinema and joe manchin exist. are there 60 votes to pass gun reform in the united states senate? >> there certainly ought to be. i will do everything i can, as i'm already doing. talking to all of my colleagues. this is a moral issue. listen, if we live in a country where our children aren't even safe, where they have to have active shooter drills as a normal part of their life and we do nothing, the question for all of us is what kind of society are we? and what kind of freedom, for those who say, well, we don't want you to somehow encroach on our freedom. it's a strange kind of freedom that sends your children on lockdowns on any random day of the week. >> amen. amen to that.

very strong moral voice and your voice was very much needed today. senator raphael warnock, thank you. thank you, sir. really appreciate you being here. >> keep pushing. keep the faith. >> thank you. we'll try. we will definitely try. coming up, oklahoma's governor bans transgender care for kids and is immediately slapped with a lawsuit by, you guessed it, transgender kids and their parents. we'll be right back. ♪♪ when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex.

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♪♪ what comes to mind when you think about animated children's shows? like clifford, the big red dog. or work it out wombats. perhaps, how does the family clean up of a poops a dog the size of their house? i bet you didn't think, these shows are trying to sexualize my kids. well, that is exactly what oklahoma's republican governor kevin claimed last week when he vetoed extending the license for the state's pbs station, known as the oklahoma educational television authority. >> i don't think oklahomaens want to use their tax dollars to indoctrinate kids. some of the stuff that they're showing, it just overly sexualizes our kids. >> so what depraved examples did

the governor provide to explain the danger that oklahoma children are in from watching this station? according to the tulsa world, a spokesman for the governor sent information showing that the station promoted lgbtq-focussed pride month programming in recent years. the spokeswoman said, clifford and work it out wombast included lesbian characters in some episodes and also sent a fox news article that criticized a pbs news hour segment an indiana couple talked about how gender affirming care was beneficial for their daughter. no, this is not a joke. these are the actual reasons why the governor wants to shut down this popular station in his state. the feared indoctrination empathy for people who are different. shocker. it's the latest example of a republican governor attacking the lgbtq and specifically the trans community. not surprisingly his desire to get in on his party's baseless crusade against these communities is coming at the expense of his fellow

oklahomaens. he's not just taking away the educational benefits for oklahoma kids, watching shows like sesame street. but this public television station is also a critical piece of the state's emergency alert system. warning about tornadoes and amber alerts and other disasters, especially for the state's many rural residents. who don't have cable television. but i guess he believes that that is a small price to pay to, quote, own the lips. i'm joined now by nicole mackfy, executive owner of freedom oklahoma. i would love for you to talk about that for a moment, nicole. oklahoma is a state with a lot of rural parts. what will happen if those large swaths of rural oklahoma no longer have this pbs station? it's the only one. >> yeah. i think that for a lot of us it's hard to even imagine an oklahoma without oeta, not only is it a center for so much news in terms of alerts and things about weather, other things we're trying to learn, but for a

lot of people, including a lot of young people who maybe don't have a ton of cable access but can look up oeta, it's a source of a lot of legislative and policy news. too. it's where the people watch the state of the state address for the governor each year. it's a place to plug in and get some realtime information. and it would be a huge loss for so many of us to not have that. >> and what do you think of this -- it isn't just obviously in oklahoma. he is just the latest governor to get in on this. but this idea of saying that just mentioning that a character is gay or showing they're gay somehow, in a kids show which is going to be the most benign way possible, it's a children's show, that that is somehow indoctrinating and sexualizing children. your thoughts on that. because that is a meme all across the republican party. >> it is. and we're hearing it not just from governor stit but also from his state superintendent ryan walters. this is rhetoric that is all too

familiar to oklahomaens, i think, when we talk about lgbtsq community work in the state so often people think back to aknee that bryant. while many people think of her save our children messaging as being really rooted in florida, aknee that bryant is from oklahoma originally. she retired to oklahoma. and as i talked to community members over this last week especially since the speech, there are older queer community members who thought we were past this part of the work, who thought that at least the very existence of queer people was no longer up for debate and for it to be attacked in such a, i think, shocking way for so many people, for it to be rooted in this attack on our public broadcasting channel i think is really difficult for people to wrap their heads around. >> and on gender-affirming care. in his tweet he talked about stopping surgeries for people under 18, which is not a thing.

that is not a thing that happens. you're talking about counselling and in some cases hormone therapy. however, there's still going to allow doctors to perform surgery on intersex, children born intersex, meaning doctors get to make a decision before the child is old enough to make a decision about their own body. they can do that, right? but they can't do this. and he's also done this thing where he's not allowing -- he claims to have indigenous heritage himself, not allowing young people to wear their indigenous clothing to their graduations. it feels like it's just eray soour of everything that is not white christian. >> yeah. the tribal regalia bill passed almost unanimously. there was a single no vote, the oklahoma legislature, to have that much agreement this was necessary as protection for indanger nous students to be allowed to wear regalia at graduations to veto that with a

specific message he thought it was giving special privileges to indigenous people, it was protecting access to regalia i think was certainly difficult to watch. i mean, he was the first indigenous tribal citizen to be governor elected in the country. and to then see him use so much of his power to attack indigenous communities in addition to queer and trans communities. i think is definitely a tough reminder that representation alone is not enough if people aren't dug into the work and connected with community. >> oh, absolutely. listen, african-americans experienced that with clarence thomas for a really long time. just because somebody is of your community, doesn't mean that they actually care about your community. it just is an unfortunate, sad fact. we will be paying attention to the story and hopefully y'all keep your pbs station. it's one of the best things about television, pbs. and work it out wombat sounds a lot of fun. thank you. coming up next, i wish i

could stop being surprised by the underhanded lengths republicans will go to grab and hold on to political power. well, maybe some day i live in hope. i'll explain in a second. in in d (janet) so much space!... that open kitchen! (tanya) oooh definitely the one! (ethan) but how can you sell your house when we're stuck on a space station for months???!!! (brian) no guys, opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. (janet) nice! (intercom) flightdeck, see you at the house warming. - representative! - sorry, i didn't get that.

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conservative majority in the north carolina supreme court reversed not one but two major decisions related to elections. this new court decided that state republicans were free to gerrymander their district maps because it does not violate the state constitution. this ruling could effectively hand the congressional republicans an additional four u.s. house seats. and italy they reversed a decision relating to a 2018 voter i.d. law that the previous court said was infected with racial bias. the new conservative court has set the stage to reinstate that law. these decisions are unprecedented. the previous court ruled on these cases literally just four months ago.

the only thing that changed was the majority on the court. i'm joined now by janine nelson, president and director counsel of the legal defense fine. janai, what is disturbing to so many people is the realization that our courts now are basically just extensions of our politics, that when the conservative court is in place they're just gonna give you a pro republican outcomes and the reverse happens, but i don't think the liberal court seemed to do it as egregiously. is that where we are at now? where there is a conservative set of justice we're just gonna get republican outcomes? >> you know, i can't speak to whether it's democratic republican but what i can say as you pointed out, the only difference between the decision that the north carolina supreme court made just several months ago in the decision it made today is the composition of the court and the extremist conservative supermajority that has taken hold. it is such a dangerous

precedent to not respect the earlier rulings of a body of a court that is not defined by the particular individuals who are on at any given time. it is defined by a larger body of doctrine that evolves over time. and most importantly that, is an interpretation of the state constitution, a constitution that has governed that state for many decades and that has said that in order to preserve the right to vote in north carolina there must be some regulation of excessive partisanship in how the maps are drawn in that state. but what we saw is a change in the composition of the court and they jettisoned a very consistent and logical interpretation of the state constitution. it is hard to reconcile that with anything other than partisan politics. i do not think that it is something we should just expect.

in fact, it hasn't been the case for decades, where courts change composition all the time in their respective precedent of prior courts. what we are seeing now is illiberal efforts by courts across the country and north carolina is just the most recent and one of the most egregious examples. >> you could go back throughout history, he really couldn't tell, based on who nominated a particular jurist to the court, how the court would rule. it wasn't so predictable. after bush v. gore i think that fundamentally changed. but with the trump justices it seems to be even more egregious. we know this house how this is gonna play. out because there was one democratic switched parties, giving republicans a supermajority, meaning that now they are going to go in and they're going to create a supermajority for republicans in the state. is there any point in trying to litigate this or the harris county case, when ultimately

these cases would wind up at the supreme court, who's the most part is one of them all, their majority is the most part is one of them all? >> i think that these courts really force the supreme court to reckon with its own declarations about different state courts. we saw this in the reproductive justice context. we see it now in the partisan jury meandering context, where the courts have not long ago that federal courts could not adjudicate partisan gerrymandering claims. but of course if there is a state constitution or a state statute that allows for, it then states who are perfectly able to lawfully regulate that. and now that the court is seeing this happening, i mean the supreme court, seeing this happening in states across the country, where state courts are not honoring their constitutions principles, it really calls not only those state courts credibility into question, but credibility of the supreme court, when it

punts to state courts that they know will not be consistent and will exercise their authority based on partisan politics. >> i think the problem is that the reasons the reason people don't trust the court and it's clear that they one particular outcomes. i'm on a show our audience the most gerrymandered states of 2023. these will surprise you. wisconsin, ohio, kentucky, louisiana, arkansas, texas, florida, north carolina, south carolina, pennsylvania, maryland, utah, florida. are you hopeful that this trend can be reversed? oh, we're actually at a time. i'm gonna ask you to come back, and we will talk again about whether we think this trend could be reversed. jenny nelson, thank you very much. back to the finish there. that's tonight's read out, everyone. all in with chris hayes starts now. time for us to go. ris hayes starts now. time>> tonight on all in -- >> widest tucker carlson still have a drop here in the firs