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saturday, may six. i'm lindsey reiser, in for alex wood. as president biden embarks on another bid for the presidency, he's counting on his extensive political experience to beat his 2020 republican rival donald trump. in a new exclusive interview with msnbc, president biden, the only oldest person to be

elected into the white house did not shy away from the question of age, framing it instead as a matter of the wisdom he's acquired over the years. >> it is fair to say that there is not a fortune 500 company in the world looking to hire a ceo in hso why right person for the most important job in the world? >> because i have acquired a [bleep] of a lot of wisdom, and i'm more experience than anybody was ever run for office. i think i've proven myself to be honorable, as well as also effective. >> in the coming weeks the president is facing a number of pressing issues, including the end of title 42 next week, which has already resulted in a surge of migrants at the border, and a crucial fight to raise the debt limit by june 1st in order to avoid a potentially catastrophic devolved. joining me right now is mike -- , so mike, how does president

biden's latest remarks about his age in reelection compared how he's handled a question in the past? >> it's so fascinating lindsey, because there are 550 days until the 2024 election, not that anybody is counting this early. we know that there are so many issues that are likely to be voting issues for americans next fall, from the economy, to immigration, to the war in ukraine. but what we've seen in poll after poll after poll ahead of president biden's reelection announcement was the number one reservation that we see even among democrats, is the presidents age. he'll be 82 by the time of the election. president biden has been asked a number of times in the past about his age, and his response has always been somewhat defensive. he simply just says watch me. it shows fastening to see in the interview last night, she posed the question to the president in a different way, and he provided a different answer. he actually made an affirmative case about what he thinks age has brought him. it's brought him wisdom, and it's experience. it matches what i've been hearing from white house advisers from campaign advisers, which is to say, that one other president would've been able to

navigate so much legislation, significant legislation, through congress, with the narrowest of majorities? what other president would have been able to pursue foreign policy to navigate this crisis in ukraine without the experience that president biden has brought to? into that maybe an inkling of where the president is going to try to direct this conversation ahead. even as we see also, a number of comments from the biden advisers recently, pointing to the fact that his likely opponent, at least a republican they say is most likely to win the nomination is again, his predecessor, former president donald trump, who's also in his 70s. so ultimately, they believe this age issue will be neutralize, the president will be out on the campaign trail, much more next year than this year while he's focused on doing the job he's been elected to. but obviously, this is going to be a dominant issue for the president next fall when he faces the voters again. >> and mike, to other issues you pointed to, the economy and immigration. the president is set to meet with congressional leaders about the doubt limit that next week, we're already seeing a surge of migrants at the border ahead of the lifting of title 42. what do we know about the

president strategy is going into both of these issues? >> this is shaping up to be a pivotal week for the president, when you look at that important meeting with the so-called big four, the leaders of the house, and senate on both sides of the aisle. there is real question about what they're even negotiating, are they discussing simply, as the president puts it, that there should be no strings attached to raising the debt ceiling? that this is congress's obligation, and we shouldn't risk a default? or she does this ultimately end up as many thing here in washington, a tie to discussion of the budget and appropriations process? we'll see, it'll be an important moment on tuesday just to gauge where sides are. we've heard from white house officials that they do want to consider potentially a short term debt limit increase to more clearly link these budget issues in the fall. the president in that issue with stephanie rural saying he's not there yet on a potential unilateral step he could take, invoking the 14th amendment. there's a lot of legal questions about whether that could be an escape hatch here for the administration. then as it relates to title 42,

we've seen the juniper of steps. the president announcing sending troops to the border to help manage the situation, but a number of diplomatic relationships, with mexico agreed to take and more migrants themselves. >> we'll be watching. nbc's mike memoli. thank you. we have new developments as well in the investigations into a love efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. a new court filing yesterday revealed at least eight of the fake electors under investigation in georgia have received an accepted immunity offerings from fani willis, the fulton county district attorney leading the investigation. the finally did not name the fake electors who had taken the deal, but she had previously said they were all targets in her investigation. last night's revelation is one of the biggest developments since the grand jury cast with this case issued its final report back in january. well willis is expected to announce her charge and decision this summer when a new court term begins. joining me now on this is greg bluestein, political reporter for the atlanta

journal-constitution, and nbc political contributor, also author of the book flipped, how georgia turned purple and broke the monopoly on republican power. greg, it is good to see, remind us who these fake electors are, and these immunity deals. are they on condition of them testifying? >> yes, this is gonna be an important development in this case. these fake electors were a broad range of republican officials, little known activist some of, them others all the way to the top. bergeron is one of the -- sows georgia republican dare -- i think we're gonna look back at this later this year, next, hear and see this as a remarkable development. because a revelation, at least half of the fake electors have now taken immunity deals, it raises the pressure of those that apparently have it. i mention david chambers name earlier, he's recently hired an attorney, craig allen, a veteran in cases involving racketeering. like other fake electors, he's been informed he could be facing charges, he seen as an architect of this plot. so, i think it raises the

temperature on david schaffer right now. >> where does the case go from here? we know willis has said or charge a decision wouldn't come before july, what is happening between now and then? >> there's still pretrial, pre charging decision, wrangling going on. the district attorney has to respond to trump's, the pro trump lawyers allegation, the whole case should be tossed out of court. they're still sit back and forth. but really, all eyes are on early july, that's the earliest she said that she could announce her decision on whether or not to go full with charges. she already has a grand jury's recommendations, and we've learned from interviews with the special grand jurors, they could involve big names. they haven't said which big names yet. but they could involve big names. but ultimately, the decision is -- whether to proceed with charges or not. >> okay, greg bluestein, thank you for bringing that up. we appreciate it. turning now to the supreme court in the new set of ethics issues threatening the credibility of justices on the bench. this week, propublica published

another report about justice clarence thomas's close ties to harlan crow. according to a bank statement reviewed by propublica, crow played for the private school to tuition of his grant -- was told he was racing out his son. in a statement, crow said quote, harlan crow's has long been passionate about the importance of quality education and giving back to those less fortunate, especially at risk youth. it's disappointing that those with partisan political interests would try to turn helping at risk youth with tuition assistance into something nefarious or political. additionally, the washington post report this week that conservative digicel activists leonard leo wants -- directed kellyanne conway to make a discreet 25,000 dollar payment through a nonprofit to justice thomas's wife ginni, according to documents they reviewed. and response to the report about the statement, we are told the post quote, the work she did here did not involve anything connected with the course of business or with other legal issues.

he also added, quote knowing how disrespectful, malicious, and gossipy people can be, i have always try to protect the privacy of justice thomas and ginni. nbc news has not independently varied verified either of these stories, but has reached out to the thomas is and kellyanne calm wait for comment. joining me now is one of the members of the jet is to chip -- from rhode island, sheldon whitehouse. senator, thank you for being with us. the supreme court has long been left to police themselves when it comes to these sorts of ethics questions. you had said that that's not enough. what are the options here? how do you balance the independents of the court with the idea that this branch is not above reproach? t this branch is>> well first og the core police itself has absolutely nothing to do with its independence. it can be independent all day long, and still police itself. what they have done is simply refused to please apply the judicial code of ethics to themselves. which is a very, very convenient decision. but it's one that their behavior shows is no longer

tenable. so they have to clean up the mass, and they have to come up with an effective way of having real ethics procedures within the supreme court. >> so senator, what are some of that the options here, particularly on your committee, i mean some people have flirted with the idea of subpoena so they can appear in front of your committee, is not an option, what else are you looking at? >> yeah, there are a lot of options, i mean this is a pretty deep investigation, there's a lot that we still need to know. we need to understand better the process that appears to have disappeared, the previous concerns about gifts from harlan crow to justice thomas, we need to understand the facts of some of these things. was there actually work performed by ginni thomas for the 25,000 dollar payment from leonard leo that he wanted to hide? and what does this look like? there are lots of very strange structures and intermediate-ing corporate shells in the middle

of all of this. so we really don't know the full details yet, what we do know is the court can't and won't police itself, and they either have to set up a new method to do, it or congress will have to pass a law that gives someone, requiring them to do it. >> senator, your committee has been absent one member, senator diane feinstein, due to a health issue. earlier this week, senator feinstein issued a statement saying the senate continues to swiftly confirm highly qualified individuals to the federal judiciary, including seven more judicial nominees, who were confirmed this week. there has been no slowdown, i'm confident that when a return to the senate, we will be able to move the remaining qualified nominees out of the committee quickly, and to the senate floor for a vote. but, senator our capitol hill does report, there has been a slowdown in the confirmation of judicial nominees. her office says she will return as soon as her doctors say she can travel, but what has her absence meant for the democratic caucus? >> well the problem here is that the republicans have

blocked filling her slot on the committee. that's the problem here. and they've blocked it temporarily, and the rules that allow us to do that, also allows them to block it if she were to resign from the committee permanently, and the same rule allows them to block it if she were to resign from the senate. so if the republicans want to continue to block our majority on the senate judiciary committee, they can do a no matter what position she makes. the only way through this that clearly puts us back into the majority that the voters gave us, it's to have senator feinstein return, and we look forward to her speedy return. >> senator, when it comes to the idea of the debt limit and avoiding default here, are you confident the congress will be able to reach an agreement in time? >> no. no. i think it's highly likely that we will, because the consequences are so terribly

severe. but the hearing in the budget committee just showed that republicans have presented president biden impossible choice. either default, severe recession, nearly 1 million jobs lost, or the terrible package, milder recession, 700 plus thousand jobs lost, that's not a fair presentation to make. that is just awful hostage taking, and unless they're willing to back off, i don't see a situation which this president is willingly going to impose that kind of economic harm on the american people. just to indulge a bunch of extremist in the house. >> so senator, when you have constituents calling your office and saying they want to make sure they're 401(k) s armor tactic, that the stock market doesn't take a nosedive because we've gone off this cliff, what do you tell them? >> i tell them that the harm it's gonna come to those 401(k) s, and to stop accounts, it's going to come i've either way

we go with the choices the republicans have given us. curt number one has a terrible thing behind, it into fault, kurt number two has a terrible thing behind it and huge job loss and recession, and it's up to them to kurt number one in car number two. there's no need to hurt the american people economically this way. as your question points, out real lives, and real family circumstances are at stake. >> democratic senator sheldon, thank you for your time. >> good to be with you. >> coming up we'll continue to discuss the debt limit standoff in washington. later on in the hour i'll be joined by the ranking member of the house appropriations committee, congresswoman rosa delauro of connecticut. plus colorado secretary of state janet griswold will help us understand the nationwide implications of a bill in texas. aiming to give the secretary of state the power to overturn election results in one specific county. and, king charles is officially

coronated. in a long day filled with pomp and circumstance, one of the cuter moments came when cameras captured clearly tired prince louis, he just couldn't contain some eons. we've all been there. we're gonna head across the pond to westminster abby next. we're back in 60 seconds. ck in 60 seconds paradontax blood when you brush could lead to worse over time. help stop the clock on gum disease now. parodontax toothpaste... ...is 3x more effective at removing plaque bacteria, one of the main causes of bleeding gums. parodontax. the gum experts. ♪ma ma ma ma♪ [clears throut]

for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops with two times more menthol per drop*, and the powerful rush of vicks vapors for fast-acting relief you can feel. vicks vapocool drops. fast relief you can feel. >> king charles iii has been crowned monarch of the united kingdom of britain and northern ireland. charles is the 40th monarch to be crowned in the historic westminster abbey, a tradition dating back to the year ten 66. while still steeped in ancient tradition, plenty of pageantry, today's coronation was more economical in restraint than queen elizabeth us in 1953. joining me right now is autumn ridge, in a social editor of the washington post opinion, also the author of a post elizabeth newsletter. so there has officially been a new king of england crowned. was it out to you today? >> i mean, this was, it's funny

to think about, you know, was the smaller scale? was this really modernized? you have to think about it in context. because for the house of windsor, this was modernized, but about the most water touches were we did see women in the service, we did see an acknowledgment of britain being a multicultural nation now. there were other faith leaders involved, and yet, this was the biggest military procession since 1953. this was an enormously expensive coronation. so in some sense, leggett they didn't skip. >> what about moments of royals, they're just like us, i mean for example, we showed prince louis yawning at one point. there are so many family dynamics here. that are keeping us grew to the coverage. prince harry wasn't on the balcony post coronation, everybody was watching and waiting to see if he would, although those people expected he wouldn't be. >> right. i think when you say sort of

there just like us, when the crown was put on camilla's head, she was trying to fix her hair with it, you know for like a good few seconds there. that seemed very human. and there were a couple of moments during the ceremony when william did his homage, and actually like, the very first words that king charles spoke when he was greeted, they were reading off of cars. these were fairly simple statements. they've also done a lot of rehearsals from the ceremony, so you could see, it was sort of like they had cards there to ensure that, you know, the humans got it right in the moment. but yes, definitely, prince louis, who is so cute, and also he stole the show at the queen's platinum jubilee last year. he came in with his parents and sister, and then he disappeared for a while, because this is a long ceremony for five-year-old. and then they brought him back. >> you know yesterday wrote a piece for the washington post, it's called charles and camilla get the crowns his ancestors, his ancestor rather was denied. talk to us about the

significance of this moment, remind us of some of that history with king edward being denied the crown because he chose his marriage, to an american who had been divorced. is that a sign, at least, a little sign that the monarchy is modernizing in at least one way? >> so that was 86 years ago that king edward the eighth was told he had to pick, and he even asked, is it possible that he could get married and his wife just wouldn't be queen? his government told him now, the british establishment told leading commonwealth countries like australia and canada also said no. so they're just, it was considered to scandalous, and a scrap unacceptable for the king, who is also the supreme governor of the church of england. he couldn't be with a divorce person. fast forward to generations, and now, the first person you

really was actually able to take advantage of the fact that the church of england started allowing into those two was prince married harry. because meghan markle was divorced when they got married. so harry and meghan were able to get married in a church. because charles is now supreme governor of the church of england, as the head of the church of england, it was still thought so scandalous in 2005, when he and camilla got married, that they got married in basically the guildhall in windsor, which is like a fancy town hall. it was a civil ceremony, and his parents didn't go. like, the religious ceremony was a blessing that happened after the wedding, because it was just, you know, divorce with such a big step still. and that was 18 years ago. in some senses, they really come a long way. but it's also you know, kind of dealing with, dealing with social norms changing overtime. >> right, right. we can talk about this all day, we'll have to leave, there

thank you so much. >> a bill making its way through the texas legislature would grant the secretary of state power to overturn election results in one particular county. up next, i'll talk to colorado secretary of state janet griswold about the message the legislation sends to voters, and the nationwide implications. implicatnsio wayfair's outdoor deal experts. the gardener... goes to wayfair for gardening basics that... aren't so basic. the entertainer... her place might look expensive. don't let it fool you. and me, the lounger... i get just what i need with a tap on the wayfair app. get outdoorsy for way less at wayfair. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ annika. i found the bomb. ok johann. there should be a blue wire and a yellow wire. there's a blue wire with yellow stripes and a yellow wire with blue stripes. cut the blue one. one is mostly blue with yellow striping and the other one is yellow

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ramifications on future elections. if signed into law, the new bill would allow the secretary of state to overturn election results in counties with populations of 2.7 million people, effectively singling out harris county's texas, the states largest county. this encompasses the houston area. the county has been trending blue in recent years, and democrats had a strong showing there in the 2022 midterms. not only where the secretary of state be able to toss out the election results, but also be able to call a new vote if there is a, quote, good cause to believe that at least 2% in polling places ran out of useful ballots. those passed by the republican control state senate on tuesday, and has been sent to the state house of representatives. yesterday, the harris county -- suit the -- and the election administrator. overhauled midterms were carried, out in a number of republicans challenge their losses and colt for do overs. joining me now is jennifer's wealth, a call about a secretary of state, she's also been recently reelected as

chair of the democratic association of secretaries of state. secretary griswold, how common of a problem is the one-sided here? polling places running out of ballots. do you think you should have the power to overturn election results and individual counties, if that happens? >> thanks for having me. good afternoon. no, the secretary of state should not be able to overturn election results just one county. there are not sufficient guardrails of this bill. the secretary does not even need proof that something is wrong with the actual election administration. they just need to believe. on top of, that this bill is going to add one county in texas, matt county as a democratic stronghold with a large percentage of people of color. this is just one more bill where the texas governor, greg abbott, is using his political point in -- the secretary of state, to make it harder for texas about. >> do you expect to see other

states trying to pass a similar ones like this? >> we are seeing states look at all kinds of voter suppression and interference bills. that's what's been happening with this attack on democracy over the last several years. this texas bill in particular, it really highlights that none of this is actually about elections haggerty. if texas, for example, wanted to focus on making its election is more secure, more accessible, it would follow colorado's lead. we have some of the most secure and accessible elections in the nation, and we offer vote by mail for all. weeks of early voting, same day voting registration. instead, what texas has been the focus of is making it illegal to send out absentee sign up for, ms. absentee ballots unsolicited, the state has targeted harris county over and over, on top of the bill, we're talking about right now, it's also looking to criminalize just basic --

not malicious. this is been restricting access to the polls. so, absolutely, this is just one of the ways that texas, in many states across the nation, are trying to interfere with the free and fair elections in this nation. >> do you think, secretary, that if maybe one of the unintended, or perhaps even intended effects here, is to disenfranchise voters? do you feel like it could have the opposite effect? for instance, in georgia, we saw voting restrictions passed, there but we saw people, rain or shine, waiting hours, in order to have their vote heard. do you think that voters will see this, and still not let it interfere in their ability to cast their ballots? >> absolutely. that is what my hope is. in 2022, realizing the drastic threats to american democracy

and our fundamental freedoms, americans showed up across the nation. in many places, it was harder for them to, about what they stood in lines, and they got it done. they rejected this extremism, and the existential threat to american democracy. so i hope that we continue to see that. please actors, these elected officials that decide to target one county, that lead democratic and has more people of color embedded in the majority of places in texas, need to be held accountable. any elected official who was trying to skew elections in their favor by restricting the right to vote, or trying to -- steal an election after the fact, needs to be held accountable. the threat to american democracy is not, over and i'm so confident that americans are going to show up in 2024 to make sure that we continue to be a country of the free and fair elections. >> secretary of state, thank you so much for your time.

>> up next, to raise or not to raise. as we quickly approach that june 1st deadline tempers of the debt limit standoff, i'm going to speak with the head of the -- congresswoman rosa de la, about the consequences as a default. after the break. the break. fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops with two times more menthol per drop*, and the powerful rush of vicks vapors for fast-acting relief you can feel. vicks vapocool drops. fast relief you can feel. ♪ vicks vapocool drops. (vo) adventure on a deeper level. the subaru forester wilderness. dog tested. dog approved. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru.

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at the white house and help support going to deal. publican senator, mitch mcconnell, says senator mcconnell have agreed to attend, along with senator chuck schumer, and house leader -- according to five sources, the white house is considering trying to broker a short term extension to allow more time to pass a larger increase. joining me now is democratic congresswoman, rosa delauro of connecticut -- representative, i apologize for misstating your name before the last break, but thank you for your time. yesterday, punchbowl news told me on air, there simply aren't the votes in congress for a short term extension of the debt ceiling. how do we get past this impasse? >> well, let's take a second, many will -- we were bipartisan when the republicans were in charge in raising the debt limit, because

it is a responsible thing to do. what we do now is we need a bipartisan response, or responsible were sponsor, patriotic response, instead of trying to hold their government hostage to the demands for raising the debt ceiling, which would be massive cuts to veterans, education, law enforcement, to childcare, that's not the way to govern responsibly. we have a way to do it, we should keep the debt salient separate from the appropriations process. that is what we've done in the past. >> congresswoman, just yesterday, president biden sat down with my colleague, stephanie -- one of the things they discussed was the debt limit. let's listen. >> there are members of congress that might be okay with us defaulted. they think it could hurt you more politically, given that, are you prepared to invoke the

14th amendment and close the debt ceiling? >> i'm not there yet. here's the deal, i think that's, first of, all this is not your father's republican party. this is a different group. i think that we have to make it clear to the american people that i am prepared to negotiate in detail with their budget. >> the 14th amendment rule that stephanie mentioned has a provision that may allow the biden administration to continue to spend money to avoid it to fault, even if congress fails to raise the limit by june 1st. do you see that is a viable solution? >> well my hope is that, you said that there was a small portion of house republicans who would like to see the government default, which is totally irresponsible given the serious consequences of that. it is my hope that there will be cooler heads that prevail, that there will be a tulum, room and that will not happen.

what we have done in the past, in the bipartisan way, we've raised the debt ceiling, and then, we had a bipartisan discussion of the appropriations bills and funding the government. i have negotiated those efforts in the past, did it last nose to separate, your ago in march with my colleagues in the senate side. we went to senator shelby, senator -- and at that time, quite honestly, the current speaker mccarthy did not allow the house republicans to enjoy the debate. well, we passed funded bill, budget, because with regards to appropriations, you'd have to have house senate, democrats, and -- voting in order for them to sign about. that has been the process. we have a very rigorous debate about what you need to spend, or what you need to --

i've been, they're often that. you compromise. there is this view that you have to condition sunday the country over the financial cliff to be able to negotiate on government spending. really, it's very irresponsible. the massive cuts that we would take hundreds of police officers off the feet, that is through defunding the police, we would make it impossible for people to get an education, cutting health grants. our veterans are brisk, a great risk with funded. we made a commitment to them because of the sacrifices they have made on behalf of this country. childcare? i will tell you that if we continue to under-fund childcare, and not have parents feel that their child is in a safe place, they will not go to work, which is detrimental to the economy. it has to be bipartisan.

my colleagues have to be responsible, they have to govern. they are the majority. >> representative rosa deloria, we'll have to leave it there, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> ukraine says it shot down one of russia's most advanced missiles you seen in american air defenses stems. we'll head to keep her alive report about this historic event, as they call, it means for the future of war. e future of war.

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recently shot down one of russia's advanced hypersonic missiles using a recently delivered american patriot air defense system. they say the interception occurred over the capital of kyiv on thursday, in the midst of russia's recent ramp up of aerial attacks on civilian targets far from the front lines. joining me now is nbc news correspondent, alison barber, in kyiv. the commander of the ukrainian air force is calling this a historic event. what happened, what is the significance? >> yeah, lindsey, so this is the first time, or at least it appears to be the first time that ukraine has been able to intercept one of these advanced hypersonic missiles that russia has fired, and also, is the first time ukraine has publicly acknowledged using those missile systems that they acquired back in april. and according to the commander of ukraine's air forces, he says that a hypersonic -- was it just up to join an

attack on kyiv. he congratulated the ukrainian people on the historic of that, sane we brought down the quote unquote, unparalleled -- meanwhile, in the, east ukraine special operation forces are accusing russia of shelling the city a buck with phosphorus and munition. they posted some videos where you can see the heavily contested city covered and fires, as, what appears to be, white phosphorus brains down on the city. white phosphorus is a type of mutation that causes fires to start and spread very quickly. it's very difficult to put those fires out once they got started. the use of boy phosphorus is not necessarily illegal by international law, but where it's used matters, and it's not allowed to be used on -- the use of faraway phosphorus in -- is a war crime. it doesn't have a lot of people

there now, because flooding has been going on for ten months. it's technically still a civilian area, that seems to be the applications from what the ukrainian forces have been saying. it is that the russians using this indiscriminately all over the city, even while some residents are still in their homes. >> -- in kyiv. thank you so much. coming up, according to a new report, a little known section of texas's abortion ban is forcing doctors to report more than two dozen health conditions. as possible abortion complications, even though health experts say many of these often have nothing to do with abortion care. we're going to talk to the journalist who's been covering the story, after the break. the break ion, especially at night? try vicks sinex for instant relief that lasts up to 12 hours. vicks sinex targets congestion at the source, relieving nasal congestion, and sinus pressure by reducing swelling in the sinuses. try vicks sinex. this week is your chance to try any subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free.

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little known mandate attacks to texas's abortion ban is asking doctors to list 28 medical complications experience by their patients. as abortion related complications, if the patient had an abortion at any point in their life. doctors are supposed to submit those private medical details to state run website, or risk fines, or the state of their license. some doctors say these conditions have nothing to do with abortion care, and fear they are manufacturing misleading data. for instance, the patient develops infection, or kidney failure, and never has had an abortion. this texas law would force her doctor to list this as a

possible abortion complication. i'm joined by author of the abortion every day newsletter on substack. obviously, this is a little complicated. can you explain again what you are hearing from doctors about the real world impact of this little known provision? >> sure. i mean, the doctors i'm hearing from are describing sobbing as they're filling out these forms. it's completely unscientific. these often have nothing to do with abortion. just to give you a personal example, when i gave birth to my daughter 12 years ago, i gave birth to her three months early. if i was to give birth to her tomorrow, in texas, and i happen to mention to my doctor that i had an abortion a few years previous, my doctor would be required, by law to report the birth of my daughter the, early birth of my daughter, as an abortion complication, because one of the conditions listed is pre-term birth and a pregnancy. not only with my doctor have to

report this as an abortion complication, every single doctor that i spoke to that day would also have to report it, which means that they say i giving birth to my daughter, but at the end of my hospital stay, her birth has been responsible for three or four abortion complication reports. those reports are then used in an annual report to prove that abortion is dangerous. >> so some of the patients, obviously, some of the doctors, they told you that they have to see what our patient is married. how many other kids the patient has. why is that relevant, and why is this information cumulatively being used for? >> it's being used for this annual report, and i have to say, this isn't just happening in texas. my report was on texas, but multiple states have this law, and other states, north carolina, would just pass their antiabortion bill. they also have this in the bill. this is the next strategy for the antichoice movement. they know that american support

access to abortion, so our hope is to create these reports on the state level to prove that abortion is dangerous so that they have an excuse for why they're passing these laws against the wishes of american voters. it's horrifying, honestly. ever doctor i spoke to says it's a real violation of the, you know, patient doctor relationship. it's upsetting all around. i have to say, the other thing that so shocking about this is that this list of conditions that was created in the law was not created by doctors, it was not created by experts, it was created by anti choice activists. so it's just absurd on so many levels. >> why do you think that this provision here is flying so low on the radar? >> it's a really good question, and i wish more people were talking about it. i think right now, there was so much horrific stuff happening with abortion, some of the horse stories coming out, that people are really understandably focused on the

women who are being denied care. i have to say, this is part of the reason why i write about abortion every day, and publish this newsletter. republicans are coming at this issue from all angles. there are talking this constantly. so many of this is flying under the radar. so much of the strategy is under the radar. we have to make sure that we're painted tension to every single bit of it. >> are you also finding, though, the doctors that you interviewed, you protect their identities because they fear retribution. do a lot of these doctors fear coming forward, and then on the flip side, you're also encountering some doctors who are refusing to comply, at the risk of losing their license. >> yes. there is a real sense of fear among doctors and texas, and texas's law, and this is true not just for doctors, but for people who get abortions, texas law sort of encourages people to turn each other and. this is a fear, that if a

doctors with the patient, and they decide, you know what, this is ridiculous, i'm not going to report this complication, that maybe another staff member who is in the room, who knows about the, law will turn them into administrators. that, actually, has happened. one of the doctors have spoken to have said this is happened, more administrators came to them and sort of force them to fill out this report. again, these doctors do not feel like this is medically accurate, they want to protect our patients, they want to protect our patients privacy, and they want to protect our patients health. this law does nothing to do that. >> real quick, are you hearing from any groups are planning to fight this? potentially seen legal implications? >> not right now. i think that every group, every group here and beyond have their hands full, honestly. they were dealing with so much. again, so much of this is about making sure that people have the care that they need when they can get it, and you know, we're seen an antitrust states, texas especially, women going into sepsis. women have been really terrible

complications because they were denied abortions. >> jessica valenti, thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> straight ahead, more of president biden's new wide-ranging interview with nbc news. what he's saying about the debt limit, age, and more. plus, the latest on president trump's legal battles. the developments in the fulton county -- attempts to overturn the 2020 election. all of that and more starting on this next hour of msnbc reports. reports. good afternoon, it's saturday may. six are in for alex what. the deadline to raise the debt limit has tightened after secretary general -- said earlier this week the united states could defaulted and said as early as june 1st. that's only a month from now. this is what has brought renewed urgency as leaders appear to be at the standoff on how to proceed. an exclusive new interview with