going to do to help us avoid default? >> look, not a single solitary congress has -- the debt is not a debt that i've accumulated. the debt is not that that have occurred over several years. it's 200 years of debt. 200 years. the idea that we wouldn't pay our debt is bizarre. it's estimated we didn't pay the time, we blew 750,000 jobs, we don't have a second, it would be a disaster. the idea is for the first time, unless you pass this ridiculous budget i have, which is what i would characterize as the republican mega budget -- unless you pass this budget, we're not going to increase the debt limit, and we're gonna go bankrupt. or united states america is going to -- for the first time in its history on its debt. no one's ever tied them together before. i've said to republican leader,

here's the deal. take the debt limit, pass it like you did three, four times, when trump was president, and he increased the whole national debt by 40%. >> republicans would argue that donald trump, at the very least, they'd say, played ball. you're not willing to play ball. >> play ball? play ball. he ballooned the debt, he created unemployment -- look, when i came to office, we had incredibly high unemployment. we were in a situation where we had very little movement on anything going on. look, look at the employment right now. just today, 250,000 new jobs. highest participation in 75 years of women in the job market. lowest unemployment rate for african americans. things are moving. >> as i said, you have a good economic recovery story. this is a very volatile

congress. there were members of congress that might be okay with a stifel dane, because they think it could hurt you more politically given that, are you prepared to invoke the 14th amendment and blow through the debt ceiling? >> they have not gotten there yet. here's the deal, i think that, first of all, this is not your father's republican party. this is different. >> no, sir. >> this is a different group. i think that we have to make it clear to the american people that i am prepared to negotiate in detail with their budget. how much are you going to spend, how much you're going to tax, how much will be cut? for example, in the first two years of my administration, i cut the death by 1.7 trillion dollars. 1.7 trillion. more than anyone has ever done in history. their budget goes in, there's no, and there's no possible way they can pass their budget. zero. zero possibility. they cut 200, anyway, i

shouldn't get going on it. >> when you say this is not your father's republican party, is kevin mccarthy an honest broker for you to negotiate with? >> i think he's an honest man. i think he's in a position where he had to make a deal that was pretty, you know, 15 votes. 15 votes where he just about sold away everything that the far, far right. there is a republican party, and there are the mega republicans. the mega republicans have put us in a position in order to remain speaker, he has to agree to things that maybe he believes but that are just extreme. >> you've made it clear to the american people that you want to stay in this job. you have officially announced you're running for reelection. and your first video, you featured vice president harris ten times. when obama was in a position, he didn't mention you, sir. what are you trying to tell us?

>> well, the president obama and i became very good friends. we just had a slightly different style of how we do things. as you recall, every major initiative president obama had, i was the last guy in the room. deciding that with him, giving him advice of what we should do. he is committed to helping in any way he can this time around. look, i think vice president harris hasn't got the credit she deserves. she was attorney general of the state of california, she has been the united states senator, she is really, very good. with everything going on, she hasn't gotten the attention she deserves. >> critics would say you're elevating her because they think you wouldn't serve a full term. it is fair to say that there is not a fortune 500 company in the world looking to hire a ceo

in his 80s. why would an 82-year-old to joe biden, why would he be the right person for the most important job in the world? >> because i have acquired a hell of a lot of wisdom, and no more than the vast majority of people. and more experience than anyone who is run for office. i think i've proven myself to be honorable, as well as, also, effective. >> sir, there is something personal that's affecting you. you are sandoval, the snow ties to you, could be charged by the department of justice. how could that affect your presidency? >> first of all, my son has done nothing wrong. i trust him. i have faith in him. if it impacts my presidency by making me feel proud of him. >> with that, let's get smarter with the help of our panel. nbc news correspondent, jonathan allen, step in you're politics correspondent for nbc, celebrated author and presidential historian, michael -- we're tired marine corps lieutenant -- who ran for senate in kentucky

-- and veteran of the george bush election campaigns, he's not part of the lincoln project. stuart, to you first. you are a veteran, i just said it, of multiple presidential campaigns. joe biden just made his case to the public of why he should be presidents again. did he make a strong enough case for you? >> i think it's a good case. you know, the problem republicans have is that they don't have any policy. no one can say what republicans are for. you know, biden has a remarkably good record. you've got hard to go out and talk about it. if you had been a child born of republicans, who started talking about -- a you would've been in the first grade before -- you know, they're actually getting stuff done. i think there are still a majority in this country that wants a governing party to be in power. republicans have pretty much

abandoned being a governing party. >> there is sort of celebrating gridlock. amy, thank you. what do you think? >> i could not agree with stewart. more president biden, people want common sense. he they need to tout their accomplishments. the unemployment rate, the infrastructure bill, which is something trump could not get done in the 40 years he was president. he could not get it done. the fact that he's brought nato back together. i think this is what he needs to do. what stood out to me was what he said, i'm an honorable person. i think that's the biggest contrast you can make with donald trump. i do believe, and maybe this is my optimism, but i do believe americans to care about that. that matters in leadership. you know, joe biden is an honorable person. it shows. i think he should talk more about that. >> mr. -- >> i think that's an example of

the fact that this country has changed enormously in the space of a little over two years. one problem with history is that we always think that what happened was inevitable. after hours going to win the second world war, the eisenhower is going to give us nearly eight years of peace and prosperity. well, i would say if someone else had been president, that wouldn't have happened. same thing issue of joe biden. we wanted to the clock two years, this democracy at the time of january 6th was teetering on the abyss. if you were a martian, we saw that great interview with joe biden, you have very little idea that between 2017 and 2021, this country was in a very strange and dangerous place. you've got a president who sudden awful lot, not perfect, but done an awful lot to restore this democracy, restore the economy, restore our alliances. it's perhaps not as dramatic as

one in a war, but i can't think of anyone who couldn't be president during these last a little over two years you could've done that. >> it's not as dramatic as one in a war, but the american people often forget what's been done with nato in the last two years. do you remember how president trump disregarded nato? barely wanted to be part of it. and how the u.s., and our western allies, have gotten together, and what we've done in support of ukraine. >> if we've been talking about this two and a half years ago, i would've said, and i don't want to presume what you would've said, but the chances of the united states been part of a strong nato drawing a trump second term, very low. instead, nato has been revitalized. do we think that if donald trump had been president for four more years, the united states would be sided with nato? against russia and ukraine, to stop that kind of violence and atrocities? it never would've happened. it's not as dramatic as saying it wouldn't have happened, and

say no president has won a warrant at the great depression, but joe biden deserves an awful lot of credit. >> mr. allen. >> i think what joe biden's brought the country's a sense of stability calm that was probably very much needed right after january six, and has done some things that his party can be proud of. if you look at the of the structure bill, who got the ablation reduction act, he did some legislative accomplishments, or -- bipartisan, there were some normal governments. at the same time, republicans don't like a lot of legislation. and that certainly the big ticket item. we are going to go back into this next election, we'll see what we've seen from most of the last several election. it's a very closely divided country. neither side is likely to have a huge upperhand didn't. what we've gotten to is a handful of states, handful of voters in the states, and i don't see anything on the horizon right now that suggests that's going to break.

>> how excited are democrats on the hill? lawmakers. that joe biden is running again. clearly, there are happy that he's in power, but to see the man they want? earlier this week, sinema was at the conference and she said, listen, she is no close ally to president biden, but she said the country deserves better than two people in their 80s. >> well, you look at the polling data, it's incredible. the percentage of not just americans broadly, but democrats who say they don't want joe biden to run for president again. it's almost a majority. it's the question i have, the choice of the abject, forces a choice in front of us. that's why i think it was really fascinating to hear -- a cover the white house, my job is to listen to everything the president says every day. i heard two things in your interview that i haven't heard him say before. the first was the answer about this age question, which is a dominant question. he has almost always given the same answer when asked about, at a defensive answer, which is,

watch me. today he made an affirmative case, about what it brings to the office, and why it's an asset, its wisdom, its experience. biden advises a, who else would've gotten this much done -- with the narrowest of majorities, but someone with this experience -- the other thing, which is fascinating, is someone who studied vice president biden in his relationship with president obama, was to hear him talk about his vice presidency. he says he thinks that kamala harris hasn't got enough attention. we know republicans get a lot of attention. another news channel gives her a lot of attention. there is -- biden's team, that says that although age will be a factor, they have to make an affirmative case for kamala harris to talk more about her, and addition to what the president said and they'd be today. what do we see today? president biden got tacos with -- they're trying to show more of a team dynamic, just like president obama's showcase president vice president biden and their day-to-day

governance. that's a recognition that we're starting to see more and more at the white house. >> we do talk every day, amy, about how divided the country, is how congresses, but the infrastructure law, we could look back on as joe biden sort of crowning achievements that is going to potentially get done what lawmakers have been trying to do for decades. the amount of money is so massive, you can't even get your head around it. he got it done with republicans support. some. did we forget that? >> well, listen -- >> we do forget -- sorry, amy, do you first. >> i think people do you forget it, it's one of those things, and you talked about it earlier in your segment, we bridges don't get built overnight. it's not something that just happens. the bill is passed, and then it takes some time to do it. i mean, that's what government is. it doesn't just happen

overnight. you want to do it effectively and efficiently. i think it's important to get these things started, so people can see that, so they get the jobs that are out there because of. it's very important. you know, your contrast that with donald trump, you find out about infrastructure for four years, and couldn't get that done. you know, joe biden did at. he should be continuing to talk about it because it's real jobs. it's really important for our country. >> stewart. >> you know, i find it remarkable the number of republicans who are bragging about a bill they voted against. you know? people like the staff. it's real staff. it affects peoples lives. you're building roads, to build in hospitals, the building infrastructure, high-speed internet. this is real stuff. you know, i don't find it strange that there is a desire for other choices here. where americans, more addicted to news. one is a car ever introduced --

they say, look, nothing's changed since last year. it's just the same, we. promises not any words. we're just not wired that way. you know, it'll come down to a choice. i think the key question in this election will be intensity, and will democrats turn out an intense level? when you look at the level of intensity for issues like abortion, even though you see, say, 65% of people are against the dobbs decision, but the very intense opposition is much higher than those who very much support. the same with guns. this is the reason we're seeing elections turn on young people. they're turning out in huge numbers. when they do that, democrats are going to win. >> one of the things that shortly sparked president biden 's team to tell me my time was up was when i asked him about his son hunter. what did you think of his

answer? >> joe biden is nothing if not someone who runs on his family, and his connection to his family, and his pride in his family, including his son hunter. so him saying he is proud of hunter biden, you know, what's the alternative? at what point is joe biden throw hunter biden under of us? the answer should be, for any father, for any parent, never. i think that if he did that, it would be politically harmful to biden. i think it would look bad if he threw his son under the bus. at the same time, he didn't say hunter's not guilty. he said hundreds done other wrong. if republicans hammering away, over and over again, with the justice department investigating, taxes, investigating a gun charge, with all the things that we know from hunter biden's laptop, the idea that hunter biden did nothing wrong? that might be something joe biden will be forced to revisit overtime. not did he do anything illegal, which could also be something he has to revisit, but did he

do anything wrong at all? >> i defer a little bit with my friend john, and that is i think joe biden has not thrown his son under the bus, but, he said to the justice department, investigate him impartially, indict him if necessary, because joe biden believes in the rule of law. does anyone believe that if donald trump or president, some member of his family got into similar trouble, that trump would not have told attorney general barr, or someone else, hands off, or fired someone who was investigating too much? remember where we were. we're living in a different dimension. joe biden has not been perfect, but if you're looking at how a leader has an impact on an era, thank joe biden. >> we forget where we wore, that's what we bring on a historian -- you wanna make a last point? >> whenever you talk, and you talk to -- all the time, john, lucky do as well, there's often a discussion about when we talk about in the media as very different than what middle america, the swing voters,

those people who aren't region watching cable news all the time or talking about. the family question is one that they think illustrates that. when president trump in the debate attacked hunter biden, the biden campaign found that that actually worked against trump. a lot of americans have people in their families, they know someone who's dealt with substance abuse, they know people who are maybe the black sheep in the family. they respect that's the view of the biden team. respect the view that the president still loves his son. they know how much he's been through as a party. >> that seven does not have a job in government, he's a private citizen. that is a contrast to family members of donald trump, senior advisers in the white house. >> part of the firm. >> part of the firm. >> we say goodbye to our panel for now. they get to walk around the block, because we gotta get some other important news. and congressman, jamie -- is standing by to talk accountability and the -- trial a. plus, i'm very sure he rang an

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your father's republican party, is kevin mccarthy an honest broker for you to negotiate with? >> i think he's an honest man, i think he's in a position, he had to make a deal that was pretty, you know, 15 votes. 15 votes that where he just about sold away everything that the far far right. there's the republican party, and the mega republicans they have really put him in a position which in order to stay speaker, he had to agree to things that maybe he agrees, but are just extreme. >> joining me now is marilyn congressman, jamie raskin. a democrat who sits on the house judiciary committee and a former member of the january six committee. congressman, i want to talk about politics but i want to talk about you and your health first. give us an update in your fight against cancer. >> well, your very kind stephanie. because of the hard work of my doctors and nurses and medical

staff. after six rounds of chemotherapy they do not find any k traces of cancer cells in the. it does not mean that they do not exist, they might be microscopic, we are going to go another cat scan in the middle of may. but if that one looks good, then i'm going to be on kind of the long term checkup plan. so i've got a new lease on life here and the neuropathy is going away and the knowledge is going away and luckily i have not had to miss any votes were hearings because the hospital a georgetown was willing to schedule the chemo around the legislative counter. but i feel like i am really going to be back in the thick of this political fight am grateful to all of my colleagues, including aoc and robert garcia and rebecca -- and congresswoman jasmine crockett who stepped in for me out a number of points to help me out. so we have great solidarity on the democratic side. >> great to see you and in

great spirit's and good health and improving. i want to talk to about a number of things, but first i want to get your take on what we heard from president biden. his assessment of speaker mccarthy who he says is an honest broker, who got himself in a bad situation, making a deal with pretty complicated figures. >> he honestly gave the store a way to the extreme maga right within the republican caucus, and we live with it every day. i mean, this fraudulent budget bill that they put in to try to drive america into default would lead to billions of dollars in cuts for veterans in nutrition programs, in education, and the social infrastructure of the country. and the maga right is totally driving the train over there. so, you've got some people in the republican party who just do not stand for anything and that is kevin mccarthy. and in the maga right, which

stands for basically repealing the 20th century and dismantling all of the gains that we have made. i love hearing joe biden say this is not your father's republican party and i was thinking, you know what, this democratic party is your grandfather and grandmother's democratic party. it is also your grandchildren this is the party of the roosevelts, jfk. it is also your grandchildren's party because it is the party that is invested in the future that is investing in the infrastructure of the country and investing in defending ourselves against the calamities of climate change that the maga right would bring on because they do not believe in science. >> how important is it, though, for the president, this administration, democrats like yourself to actually explain to the american people and voters what these cuts would mean. the average person would say the government spent way too much money, which we can all agree on, however people do not know the details often until they are too late. think about all the parents out there who are saying that care

about their kids education. they might not realize that within this republican plan, slashing teachers right after two and a half years of learning loss. >> well, you are right. we have to explain the details to people. for example, under the infrastructure plan with the biden administration brought to us, my state maryland got two and a half billion dollars that we've been able to put into the baltimore tunnel and the protection of the chesapeake bay and my county, mcdermott county, has the largest electric school bus fleet in the united states of america. these buses are cheaper, they are much lower maintenance, and they are not puffing noxious fumes in the faces of our children. and they are not carcinogenic. so, there is real progress happening which the republicans want to dismantle. but it is also important, stephanie, to put into play the big picture which is they are radically different public philosophy these between the disease and the ours.

our public philosophy is one that means the government is an instrument of the people. we must invest in the people. that is what government is for. for the republican philosophy is that government is an instrument for private to self enrichment for the president, it is, family and a handful of corporations that put him into office. donald trump is of course the cartoonish example of, that he does not even pretend to stand for public interest. he could never make statements like joe biden just made about investing in the roads and highways and the streets and ports and airports. i sat there for four years in congress on the loan, trump we had in infrastructure week, an infrastructure months, i infrastructure ear, but we never had an infrastructure bill. joe biden came in and it within the first six months. we are starting to see the concrete materialization of that all over the united states of america. you are absolutely right, all of those things should have the

name of joe biden on them. i do not know whether he is cynical enough to do that, but it is the bridges and roads and highways and infrastructure, the radical expansion of internet, high-speed internet and rural areas. people owe that to the democratic party. >> hopefully if you are a d, are, i or, somebody who does not even vote, you follow the rule of law. and today, i know that you paid attention to this. a kentucky man was sentenced to 14 years for his role in the insurrection, the capital riot. this is the longest prison sentence in a january 6th case thus far and i want to share with what the judge said. >> it is a quote. you are not a political prisoner. you are not somebody who is standing up against injustice or fighting against an autocratic regime. you took it upon yourself to try and injure multiple police officers that day. the judge just laid it out there, what is your reaction?

>> well, that is a real judge right there. i do not know judge made to, but he should be on the supreme court instead of several people i could think of right now. he is rebuking and repudiating what my colleagues like marjorie taylor greene have repeatedly said, which is that the january 6th convicted defendants, these are people convicted of assaulting federal conspiracy, which means conspiracy to overthrow or put down the government of the united states our political prisoners. so she is likening them to alexander -- or nelson mandela. people who were put into prison for fighting for freedom and democracy against authoritarian or to tell a terry and regimes. there are lots of political prisoners in russia right now, which of course is the ally of donald trump and the maga right in america as they cheerleader for vladimir putin and his filthy, bloody, and imperialist

invasion of ukraine in his war against the ukrainian people. so, that judge is making a point for all of america here. these people are not political prisoners, they have had every right to vindicated. they have had every due process and tea crossed, i dot it in the process. they have been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt be by a jury of their peers by doing things like smashing police beyond a reasonable doubt be by a jury of their peers by doing things like smashing police officers over the head, or attempting to block the certification of the winner in the presidential election, or block the presidential transfer of power. >> since january 6th there have been a number of republicans who said this is not an insurrection because there was no sedition. they cannot say that anymore. yesterday, the former leader of the proud boys and four other members were found guilty of seditious conspiracy. today, the department of justice for requested a 25

years sentence for stewart rhodes. remember this guy, the founder of the oath keepers militia was also convicted of the same thing. how significant are these developments and what do they mean for the investigations into donald trump? >> well, it should silence all of those people on the right who are claiming that this could not be an insurrection despite the fact that concurrent majorities on both the house and the senate defined it as an insurrection when they voted to say, when we voted to, say that donald trump had incited an insurrection. but now we have got more than a dozen criminal convictions including a lot of guilty pleas by people saying yes indeed, their point was a conspiracy to overthrow the government. to put down the government. a belgian if mice -- mike pence had gone along with a plan, or they put another student in place of the vice president to go along with the plan. if they had simply declared donald trump a president and he proceeded with the advice of a

bunch of his right-wing advisers, including his disgraced formal national security adviser michael flynn to impose martial law. do they think all of these people would still be saying it was a joke or would they have acted as trump's army? these judges and juries of their peers are finding that this was not a joking matter. this was an absolutely serious attempt to overthrow our government we can only be grateful that the rule of law has held to the point that we now have hundreds of convictions that have taken place. more than 1000 arrests that have taken place, and the investigation continues. the largest investigation by the department of justice in american history. and so the justice system is working but everybody is still waiting for the question to be answered, which i think i posed at the very last meeting of the january 6th committee, which is are we going to become a country where the foot soldiers and the lower downed ringleaders go to jail, but the

masterminds and reeling ringleaders at the top a stay free or go golfing in scotland or ireland? that is the big question. >> well congressman raskin there are many, many examples throughout history where yes that is the case. but one thing i am grateful for is that he stayed up late with me tonight and joined me in such good health. great to see you. >> great to see you, and it's about two weeks past my bedtime right now. >> you've got to stay up later. coming up the judge in the e. jean carroll case is giving trump a chance to change his mind and testify. but today we may have gotten a preview of what that would look like. more of his tape deposition when the 11th hour special condition continues. >> vo: for us, driving around is the only way we can get our baby to sleep, so when our windshield cracked, we needed it fixed right. we went to safelite.com. there's no one else we'd trust.

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president donald j trump has until sunday to decide whether or not to testify in e. jean carroll's civil rape and defamation trial against him. his lawyers have so far offered no defense, but jurors did see a videotape deposition given by trump back in october, which was made public for the first time earlier today. and it, trump denies the encounter with carole ever happened. he also commented on that infamous access hollywood tape. >> you say that again this has become very famous in this video, i just started kissing,

them it just like a magnet. just kiss, i do not even wait. and when you are a star they let you do, it you can do anything. grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> historically that is true stars. >> it's true that they can grab women by the [ bleep ]. >> if you look at over the past million years that is largely true. not always, but true. fortunately or unfortunately. >> you consider yourself to be a star? >> i think you could say that, yeah. >> well unfortunately or fortunately. with me now to discuss my dear friend joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. joyce, we just heard from the former president of the united states doubling down on what he said about grabbing women's genitals on that access hollywood tape. what do you think about that? he is also the current potential front runner in the

republican party. >> so i will answer that question with my former prosecutor hat on and say that while this is a civil case that e. jean carroll has, brought that is the kind of evidence that any lawyer would want to have in a courtroom in a case like this. whether it is a criminal rape case or a defamation and battery case, when you've got a defendant who makes this kind of a comment especially when he uses the word fortunately when discussing the sweep of history in regard to women's bodily integrity you've got to feel good about your case. >> okay, this one was a shocker to many. i want you to take a look at what happened when trump was shown a photograph of himself with e. jean carroll. >> this is a black and white photograph that was marked as -- >> i don't know this woman.

marla. >> icing marla is in the photo? >> that is marlowe, my wife. >> here. >> the person you just pointed to his e. jean carroll. >> okay in case you didn't hear that he was saying the woman's photo was merola maples, trump 's wife at the time. but it was e. jean carroll. part of his defenses that he did not even know e. jean and she is not his type. on what planet where these arguments working? >> so this is a really strong piece of evidence on a critical element of e. jean carroll's case. she is got to prove that she was defamed, that trump made knowingly false statements about her. and he testifies in the deposition that all of his ex wives are his type. marla maples is his type. he is shown a photograph of e. jean carroll, he identifies it as marla.

it is powerful evidence and what you do not have in this trial is trump taking the witness stand and giving the jury an alternative explanation. because it is a civil case and carol only has to prove her case by a preponderance of the evidence, prove that it is more likely that, not this is really damaging when it comes to the way the jury will be instructed and will deliberate on the evidence. >> now the judge has given the former president until sunday to decide whether or not to testify. what do you think he is going to do in your professional experience? >> yeah, so i think trump was blustering. he made this comment on the golf course in ireland that he had to leave ireland and scotland early. he had to go back to the united states because this horrible woman had said terrible things about him and should not be permitted to happen and he was going to go back to america to defend himself. unfortunately, trump said that after's lawyer had already told

the judge that he would not be testifying. after the evidence was closed, the defense said that they were down presenting evidence. and i think, you know what judge kaplan has done here is that he called trump's bluff and he had said that you want to testify, come on i will bend over backwards and give you the opportunity to do it even though you are out of time. what that does is that when trump does not show up it for closes his opportunity to go around and talk about how poorly he was treated in court because here the judge has given him every benefit of the doubt. >> the judge has said giddyup, a brother, you can come make your case. and now the question is will trump show up. joyce vance, thank, you always make us smarter. when we come back we are almost ready to wrap up these special two hours, what are your final thoughts on joe biden drawing a sharp contrast with his 2024 challenger. our panel has -- when we continue.

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biden for how many years? >> 15, coming up on 15. >> what did you make of that moment? i can tell you there and even when we spoke after the interview that his disdain, his anger for who donald trump is, what he represents and what he has done to the country, that is a motivator for biden. >> we talked about the fact that joe biden is motivated by middle class values. people try to put him on an ideological spectrum, it is really just about his upbringing, the people that he grew up in scranton. but he might not be in politics if not for donald trump anymore at this point. he talks about, even a couple weeks ago, i probably would've run for reelection if donald trump was not in the race. he is running because down trump is still in the race. and his team spill expects trump to be his opponent next year, and he does think, just as he said for years, ago that the character of this country is at stake and it is what motivated him to stay in the race at this point. >> in your last thoughts?

>> joe biden, in addition to the policy achievements, those are important. but, he has restored honesty and dignity to the office of the president of the united states. in a time when we have a crisis in trust in institutions that matters. >> stewart, michael is making me think of something. if it was not trump running again or the current front runner, what do you think that president biden would run again? >> well, the record of people not running for reelection once their president is not great. particularly one that has done a good job. if you do not run, people think that you failed. and you never succeed enough that people think that is, enough you can get out. so, i do not know, but i cannot think of a more distinct matchup. one guy is on trial for rape and the other guy is talking about infrastructure. who do you want to be president

of the united states? >> he said he is going to be a bridge president and he has decided to build a whole lot of them and potentially stay on another four years. your thoughts john? >> number one, great job stephanie. a lot of good job there. >> you know that the show is about to end and how do i make sure that i get invited back. and you know, what good on, you that worked. great job. >> i think what you've got here is a president who's hope reason for being is renewed by donald trump being. they're all the reasons that he was going to run for president last, time this is a very easy move for him into this campaign. if they were on the same campaign that they ran last, time the history -- they should find new ways to run for president. but if you looked at this interview, what is most interesting is the command of detail from biden on a variety of different issues. you heard him citing facts and figures, not just the job numbers from today, but talking

about percentages of what the debt looked like in the past, and so for all of the stumbling in how he gets things out, i thought the command of the variety of different facts here was a fascinating. if you look at the entire interview, and i hope people that will watch it three or four or five times, i want to get back on the show, i think that what they will see is somebody who has a lot more command than he's given credit for. >> last 20. you >> the last point is that if it is trump versus biden next year, one in american history before have we had one candidate, joe biden, who loves democracy and spent 50 years learning how to work his -- its levers. we have had the benefit of that over two years. so joe biden, who loves democracy, against donald trump who has said that he hates democracy, try to overthrow it on the 6th of january, as a vowed to do it again if you lucked him president, never before in american history have you had this kind of choice.

1970, two richard nixon said i am running against george mcgovern, it is the clearest choice in a century. well, compared to trump and biden those two were twins. this is one of the biggest forks and the road that we've ever seen in american history, a crucial election next year. >> unprecedented times. yet again. jonathan allen, michael -- , michael, and amy mcgrath, and stewart stevens. thank you over being here tonight. thank you all for being here the last two hours of the special edition of the 11th hour. you can catch my interview with president joe biden streaming on peacock and all across nbc platforms and on that note, after this long week and this long day, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news thank you for staying up late. i will see you at the end of monday. ♪ ♪ ♪

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what kind of impact decades of latin ex-influence of had on the windy city >> we were poor but then were like -- >> in brutal honesty, when we have answers first thing in the morning we need your morning and show, we case at six only on msnbc alex wagner tonight. tuesday through friday at nine on msnbc. >> this is the katie phang show, live from miami, florida we have lots of news to cover and