big guests we will have on the show next week. new hampshire's republican governor kristen you knew will join me next sunday after donald trump holds a town hall meeting in his home state of new hampshire. i will also get a look at alexis mcgill johnson's recant routine. she is the president and ceo of planned parenthood action fund, at a time when the threat to women's rights and access to an abortion has never been greater. it turns out she also makes time to make a mean chocolate chip cookie. that's all coming up next sunday, right here at 12 pm eastern. that does it for me today. be sure to follow this show on twitter, tiktok and instagram. and stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up here on msnbc. coming up here on msnbc. >> tonight on the mehdi hasan show, only in america tragedy. eight innocent people dead after a mass shooting in texas.

and republicans once again refusing to take action. they only have thoughts and prayers. then, the census killing of jordan kneeling on the u new york city subway car. how was that and not an act of unjustified vigilantism? we will discuss. and the man who leaked the -- papers has a warning for us all. -- daniel ellsberg joins me to reflect on his unique life, like a sea and what is still keeping him up at night. good evening. a bank. iraq center. our college campus. a parking lot. a nightclub. a bar. our restaurant. a grocery store. a christian school. a hospital. an apartment. a house party. albert party. and he struck out. a park. a beach. a bus stop. an intersection. an ice cream shop. and mcdonald's. aghast a shunt. a funeral home. a dance studio.

a motel. a concert and now, in allen texas this weekend, and outlet mall. just some of the locations where mass shootings have taken place in america this year. everyday places. ordinary people, could have been any one of us. in america in 2023, there have been more mass shootings and there have been days. according to the gun violence archive, there have been at least 202 mass shootings in 127 days so far this year. this is how we live now. no other developed country on planet earth lives like this. but this is how we live now. and ye saturday, a day when people are out shopping and enjoying a day off, a gunman opened fire at a dallas area outlet mall around 3:30 pm local time, killing at least eight people and wounding several more. before he was killed on the spot by a nearby police officer. the gunman had been identified as a 33 year old, and we are choosing not to name him.

law enforcement officials say he appears to have been drawn to neo-nazi and whites premises content. well officials have not yet released the names of the victims, we do know that their ages range from five and 61 years old. yes. a five-year-old. a child. there have been images circulating on social media showing just how tragic and gruesome this all was, and here is how one of the witnesses, stephen spainhouer, a former police officer whose son was working at the balls h&m, describes the scene to my colleague, jonathan -- earlier today. >> i found seven people shot in front of the store the first girl i went to in the buses was kneeling like she was praying. i don't want to get too graphic that i felt for a pulse. i turned her head. she had no face. she was already gone. i tried the second victim. he was gone. the third one, i started just compressions -- blood and then you just looked

at me and he expired in front of me. i will be honest with you, you need to be hit with an automatic weapon -- there is no opportunity for survival. >> absolutely horrific. according to law enforcement officials, the shooter had a tactical vest as was armed with a rifle in addition with to a handgun. more weapons and ammunition were found in his car. we know that the air for 15 style guns is most commonly used in -- 18 year old can still purchase them. texas gop governor greg abbott -- pots and prayers when these tragedies occur -- has called raising the age limit to buy an assault style rifle and could unconstitutional. remember when people on the right say nothing could be done about the kind of carnage we have seen this weekend. or that the problem of gun violence and mass shootings is some mysterious, unsolvable, when resolvable problem.

they are lying to you. this isn't about mental health, which every other country has problems with. it isn't drugs, which other other country struggles with. it isn't computer games, which every other country has. it is the gotten's. it is obviously the guns, which we lead the world in, we are number one in terms of civilian gun or shipper capita. we're turning up in comes a distant second. we are the only country in the world where civilian guns is higher -- in that country. so when you actually recognize the undeniable reality that it is the guns, then you can also recognize that one group of people, the republican party and their backers of the nra and fox, one group of people is responsible politically and morally, for these ongoing gun massacres. the ongoing killing of our kids. let's stop saying congress must act and start saying that the republican party must act. let's stop treating the gop as the party of law in order and treat them more accurately as

the party of gun violence, school shootings, of mama secures. , and let's work to ban assault weapons right now. for god sake, banned the dam ar-15. joining me now -- urban development and an msnbc political -- shannon watts, -- demand action. thank you both for joining me this sunday night. i wish you both didn't have to join me on a story like this. in 2015, governor abbott of texas tweeted about being embarrassed for being number two in the nation for gun sales. he was embarrassed about this only a few years ago. texas -- nine mass shootings over the past 14 years in your state. as a proud texan, what is your response to all of this? . >> well, he has been an embarrassment. i struggle to call what he is offered in the state of texas on this issue leadership.

it hasn't been. it has been a complete absence of leadership. not only that, has made things worse. what we are seeing happen in texas, the picking up the pace of these mass killings, is a clear choice by the gop. they have done anything and everything that they can over the last few years to make it easier and easier for people to be able to get these types of assault weapons. people that shouldn't have them in the first place. they said they were going to do something about four years ago, after that massacre at the walmart in el paso, the lieutenant governor put together this show commission that didn't make any significant recommendations for progress. and then the legislature didn't do anything. and the governor himself has not done anything. he says that, as you pointed out, simply raising the age for someone to be able to get these rifles from 18 to 21 would be unconstitutional. against the texas constitution. it could easily have this on the ballot for the voters of

texas to actually vote. to change the constitution. if that is what he legitimately believes. but he hasn't done. iv did it, i'm pretty sure that the texans, including a lot of everyday republicans, would vote to raise that age limit. >> so, let's talk about solutions. shannon, in a tweet, former foster host meghan kelly blamed gun control advocates for not being able to affect change. you are such an advocate. you've been on the ground. you have succeeded with the bipartisan gun legislation sign last year which we have discussed on the show before with you. what is your response when you see comments like meghan kelly's and what -- from happening again? >> -- fait accompli. the gun lobby has won. we should feel hopeless and helpless. and that kind of cynicism, i think, isn't excuse for an action. we have had significant progress --

unfortunately, this is dumb is not set up for overnight wholesale change. i wish it was. it is more than one post, more than one policy, more than one protest. it is the unglamorous, heavy lifting of grassroots activism. we have passed over 500 good -- laws in this country, in the last decade. we have stopped henry's agenda -- state houses, for the last a year, but just in the last two weeks, we have passed sweeping gun reform legislation and what have been purple spates like minnesota and colorado and washington, including assault weapons bans. we are making progress. however, there are some gun extremists who have a hold over legislatures, federal and state. and we have to show them that there are consequences for inaction. there have been three mass shootings in the last two weeks in texas and there have been more mass shootings in this country this year than there have been days of the year, we have a 25 times higher gun

homicide rate than any nation. we are not more mentally ill or evil. we have easy, unfettered access to guns. that is what is happening in this country. >> yes, it is. julian, how is it that -- unfettered access to guns. and yet your party still can't succeed as branding them -- gun violence. the republicans are still saying mirror the part department of law and order, tough on crime, yet any alien from out of the united states say, how can they be tough on crime, they are okay with criminals using assault rifles to kill kits? >> i think that is changing, mehdi. especially young people. you look at all the activism that has come out of places like kirkland and other places where you have these mass shootings and what gives me hope are the young people that clearly recognize that the gop are hypocrites when they talk about family values and keeping

kids safe and as we see more young candidates that -- young candidates go to the polls and hold candidates accountable for their stance on comments and gun safety reform. all that happens, i think you will see the days of the republican party getting away with people thinking that they are the law in order party fade. it takes a while, for that kind of thing to happen. these things do -- >> i hope you are right. i hope you're right. i find the whole thing deeply frustrating, the whole positioning. shannon, one last question to you. when it comes to these mass shootings, should the media be showing the gruesome images and videos? i know there is a debate on both sides of. one side says, we need to see the stuff to get americans really range. the other side says it would just desensitize us to the violence. what do you say? >> look, this is a conversation that always happens after every mass shooting. i've been doing this as a full-time volunteer for a decade. i've never met a single survivor who wanted to be further exploited by having

photos of their loved ones dead bodies shared with the public. you know, we have a congress, to congress members have been shot and almost died. gabby giffords and steve scalise. that did not change the hearts and minds of their colleagues. in fact, steve scalise is even more aligned with the gun lobby than he ever was. i understand the sentiment. we think people will be rational and compassionate. these are extremists. and the only thing that they will respond to is a loss of power. that means they lose their jobs, if they don't act. there's a me reason mitch mcconnell -- communities act, it was because polling showed him that they were going to lose at the midterm elections. so it is on all of us, getting, to show up and do the heavy lifting. we are going to have events all over the country on saturday, may 13th. i would ask people watching to text the word rally 26443 and join us in demanding an assault weapons ban. shannon, appreciate the heavy lifting that you do. holy, and thank you as ever for

your analysis. thank you for your time. >> before we got a break, we also want to discuss another tragedy out of texas. this one in the, city of brownsville. on the u.s. -- believed to be migrants were waiting at the bus stop, they were killed and a dozen were injured when a car -- intentional act but they later said it is not clear if in fact it was intentional. investigation into the event is still ongoing. have a tractor, dina the less. we will bring you more news on that when we have it. after the break. was the killing of jordan kneeling on a new york city subway outrageous act of vigilantism? we will discuss. l discuss.

liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we tried electric unicycles. i think i've got it! doggy-paddle! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ and we're done. hm, what about these? looks right. nooo... nooo... nooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! when you gotta get it done, one sheet is all you need. and bounty is 2x more absorbent so you can use less and get the job done with one. this works. kind of. bounty, the quicker picker upper.

♪ music playing upstairs ♪ we'll be here. ♪ so you can be there. everything from vitamin a to vitamin zs delivered in 1 hour. your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. (vo) with verizon, you can now get a private 5g network. so you can do more than connect your business, gamechanger for my patients- you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work.

(vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on. and this is ready to go online. any questions? -yeah, i got one. how about the best network imaginable? let's invent that. that's what we do here. quick survey. who wants the internet to work, pretty much everywhere. and it needs to smooth, like super, super, super, super smooth. hey, should you be drinking that? -it's decaf. because we're busy women. we don't have time for lag or buffering. who doesn't want internet that helps a.i. do your homework even faster. come again. -sorry, what was that? introducing the next generation 10g network only from xfinity. >> want to talk about what the future starts now. goli, taste your goals.

happened last week on a new york city subway car. i, let's take a pause. that was 15 seconds. it felt long, right? if not long to me. on monday afternoon, jordan neely, a 30-year-old homeless man, who suffered from mental illness, died after being held

in a chokehold for a total of 15 minutes. 15 minutes. that is according to a witness on the scene. nearly tragic death, which was caught on camera, immediately sparked understandable outrage, with some calling the -- however, over at fox, their focus wasn't on the alleged crime committed right on camera. it was, wait for it, the criminal history of the unarmed black man who was choked to death. >> jordan neely may harass subway riders, it was a hobby. sometimes he became violent. jordan nearly had been arrested more than 40 times. this man, who died, as numerous other arrests for assault, surly conduct, beating, law enforcement harassment. -- threaten people who have attacked women and children. >> now, here are the facts. -- freeland struggles who is on the subway, told nbc news that

nearly boarded the train and began yelling that he didn't have food and that he was ready to go to prison or even to die. vazquez told the new york times that while neely was screaming was frightening, the 30-year-old had not assaulted anyone. however, after nearly threw his jacket on the floor a 24-year-old white prison now identified as daniel penny decided to intervene and place kneeling in that deadly chokehold. penny, a former marine, was later questioned by police and released yesterday. yes, released. he still has not been charged with anything. all we know at this point is that the manhattan d.a. alvin bragg says he plans to bring the case before a grand jury. in a statement, pennies no ayers know that he has a documented history of violent interact behavior and claim that their land had no intention of causing harm, he was simply protecting myself and others until police arrived. but, remember, according to public accounts, nearly had not put his hands on another passenger. that was penny. and while yes, it is true that ordinarily was convicted criminal, it is absolutely

relevant. because number one, convicted criminals don't deserve the death penalty for being threatening on a subway car. and number two, the people on that train, including penny, almost certainly had no idea about his criminal past. so, all that is relevant here is that a white man put a black man in a deadly chokehold on camera for the whole world to see, and has so far been allowed to walk free in a city where the authorities and police carried to claim a great deal about crime and punishment. joining me now to discuss, jody duffy. -- journalist and host of the podcast reformed, marina curry fee johnson, a lawyer and vice president of national and initiatives at -- organization working to reform the broken criminal justice and immigration system. marina, thanks so much for coming on the show. josie, thank you both. i want to start with you. it's difficult for me to understand how anyone could hear the facts of this incident and watched that tragic video and come to the conclusion that this is anything other than at best, manslaughter and worst, murder. and i missing something?

is there a gray area here under new york law? >> no. mattie, you're not missing anything. i think that the fact that a man could have the life choked out of him in front of that he witnesses in broad daylight and whether or not this is a horrific problem is up to debate, up to debate makes me think i am very sad for the state of our society. what i do think is important to contextualize the situation is, the fact that we are coming into a climate where it feels like we have almost entered into a tie machine back to the 90s. we have the media doing obsessive reporting about very rare incidents of young black people, of unhoused people, maybe perpetuating violence against somebody else and then acting as though that is an everyday occurrence and acting as though crime is at record

highs and in new york city, and trying to create a culture where people feel very and see if and also understand the threat to their safety to be black folks, to be unhoused folks, to be folks that are struggling with poverty. when what we know is that not only leads to criminalizing those populations and that does not make anybody safer. i'm just gonna jump in and bring joe cnn -- criminalizing of people here. so, josie, what you make of the fact that within hours of nearly death, we learn of his criminal history, but all we find out about the person who choked him was that he was an unnamed former marine? >> yeah. it's an interesting dynamic here. we are talking about the fact that he had been arrested for -- not more evidence that the system is working. the fact that he had been arrested 40 times in that he

got onto a train and said i'mhui don't care if i lived i, to me is have, which is to police people without a house does not accomplish its goals. and the fact that we live in a society where being unhoused is essentially a legal, and that we will punish you for being unhoused anyway we possibly can is more evidence of how the system failed. it failed jordan neely and it failed everybody. failed anybody who is having the same social issues. some people on that subway car did try to intervene. and extended -- morning daniel penny that his actions could be deadly, noting that nearly had apparently desiccated on himself. that is one of the telltale signs that a person is close to death. he also warned that penny could catch a quote, murder charge. in that statement from pennies

lawyers, they claim that the client never intended to harm neely and could not have foreseen's untimely death. based on the details we just shared, what do you make of that case, given that people even at the scene we're seeing hey, this is not right? >> again, i don't think it is a gray area, when you took the life out of somebody over several minutes in broad daylight whether or not that is an violent and evil thing to do. i think that in terms of what happened with the case, i understand that the fascination with what the punishment is going to be and it makes sense to me, but i feel like those who want to live in a world where jordan neely was not, is not only alive was not hungry, was not unhoused, should be very focused on commanding the types of policies we know make us all safer. and pushing back against this rhetoric that we can use jail as a housing policy, that we can use murder as a housing

policy, that we can police as a housing. policy these are not things like jordan neely or any of us need. they are not the things that make any of us safer. they only aggravate the underlying problems, but i think are making all of us feel like we need to change. >> josie, one last question to you. we have to acknowledge a -- liberals, don't have much empathy for the homeless, the mentally ill, the un-housed, and you look at someone like kneeling on a train and say, you know what, i'm not going to comment on what happened. this is a problem new york. and elevate the threat, quote unquote, from someone that killed nearly over the threat he ettinger. >> absolutely. and i think that the idea of someone getting on a train and being in the state of desperation is unnerving. it is upsetting. it should be upsetting. we should not hear about someone who is starving, who is desperate, who is wanting to die and see that as the --

new york city. this is a failure of social services in new york city. this is a failure everywhere, it is a failure of a system which has accepted this as the cost of doing business, we are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. there is no recent that a 24-year-old mentally ill, unhoused person should be in that state of hunger, should be in that state of desperation. there is no reason that anybody on the train should feel unnerved by someone else's hunger, either. we are living in a world where he has never gotten -- the end that he endured is so unjust, so tragic, and it doesn't have to be like that. this is not a world we have to live in. >> now. no, it is not. and -- i have been unnerved on -- didn't kill someone. >> absolutely. >> josie duffy rice, i rena karefa-johnson, i appreciate you both. let's continue this

conversation with new york city comptroller brad lander who was told what happened on the second day of -- thanks for joining us tonight. share with us your first reaction when you heard of kneeling's death and you saw those images. the >> good evening, mehdi. i thought everyone would be horrified. the idea that someone could be choked to death on the subway who is clearly crying out for food and water and a bed i, thought all new yorkers would say we want a city where you can't -- being mentally ill. that is what i thought. i thought it was responsible to say. it is what i thought everyone would say. >> yet, this is what new york adam -- have a listen. >> i was a former transit police officer. i responded to many jobs where you had a passenger assist someone and so we cannot just

blatantly say what a passengers should or shouldn't do in a situation like that. so, mayor adams didn't want to -- we can't just condemn it blanketly. and governor hochul also initially began by refusing to condemn a. she's has since said she re-supports justice for his family. i have to ask. what does it say about new york leadership, that the governor in the mayor's response was to basically, in a kind of way, excuse vigilantism? >> it was distressing. we can't be a city where we cheer on -- mental distress, who's homeless, who literally is crying out for food and water. -- this will be a wake up call for her, for a more compassionate and common sense system, for connecting people to care and health and safety that they need and that frankly, we all need >> mayor adams says it wasn't responsible for you to say what you said.

i mean, i just don't know how you could not see the responsible thing to do is to condemn vigilantism. one last question for you. you heard josie duffy rice say it is a failure of new york social services. homelessness rates in new york city are at record levels right now. new york is run by democrats, run by your party. is that a failure of new york democrats, and the new york leadership, that you are part of? >> look, it's a failure of all of us. it really is. he was in and out of the criminal legal system, jordan neely, it cost us $500,000 a year to keep someone -- less than $50,000 a year to have someone in support of how devising where they get the care that they need. so, we are not only feeling folks like jordan, feeling people -- family friendly cost and a common sense point of view it is a failure and i hope it will be a wake up call for

compassion and common sense and in jordan's name we will make this a better city. >> yes. we can only hope. new york city comptroller broad lander, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, mehdi. >> coming up, the emptiness of republican thaw on players when it comes to gun violence. to gun violence a ballet studio, an architecture firm... and homemade barbeque sauce. they're called 'small businesses.' but to the people who build them there's nothing 'small' about them. that's why at t-mobile for business... you'll save more than $1,000 versus verizon. and with price lock guarantee, we'll never raise your rate plan. so you can keep your focus on toe-turns and making sure the sauce is extra spicy. at t-mobile, there are no small businesses. ♪♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪

stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪♪ remember the things you loved doing... before your asthma got in the way? get back to the things you love... with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma. having too many eosinophils, a type of white blood cell, can cause inflammation and asthma symptoms. fasenra is designed to target and remove eosinophils and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is 1 dose every 8 weeks. fasenra can help patients to breathe better. most patients did not have an asthma attack in the first year. and fasenra helps lower the use of oral steroids. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions.

allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. and get back to your life. ask your doctor about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. with chase freedom unlimited, you can cashback 3% on dining including take-out. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or the tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. well, good luck with that. earn big with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. enjoy the go with charmin.

♪ ♪ ♪♪

voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ we've stripped all over this mountain. i love it when he strips for me. i strip on sick days. breathe right instantly relieves nighttime nasal congestion. daytime, too. helping you breathe easier for up to 12 hours. breathe right. strip on. >> coming up in just a moment, back in 1971 -- expose the governments lies about the vietnam war by linking the pentagon papers. -- road to hell. why my important interview with american icon, you will want to hear what he has to say. first of all, richard louis is here with the headlines. good evening, richard. >> good evening to you. we are following the latest on the shooting in allen, texas, were -- outlet mall. a senior law enforcement official says that the gunman was wearing a tactical vest and

investigators found more weapons and ammunition in his car. officials are also confirming that the suspected gunman that direct with neo-nazi and white supremacist online. investigators have not given a motive. president biden responding to that shooting, renewing calls for gun safety legislation. he told congress to enact universal background checks and ban assault weapons. he said in a statement that he would sign legislation immediately. also in texas, seven people dead in almost dungeon injured after a driver plowed into a group of people waiting at a bus stop in the border town of brownsville. the driver has been arrested and charged with reckless driving. more charges are likely coming according to officials there. investigators say they are determining if this was intentional if the driver was intoxicated. more on the mehdi hasan show right after this break for you. reak for you the gardener... goes to wayfair for gardening basics that... aren't so basic. the entertainer...

her place might look expensive. don't let it fool you. and me, the lounger... i get just what i need with a tap on the wayfair app. get outdoorsy for way less at wayfair. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪

(♪ music ♪) (♪ ♪) (♪ ♪) where could reinvention take your business? accenture. let there be change. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we tried electric unicycles. i think i've got it! doggy-paddle! only pay for what you need.

♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ do you struggle with occasional nerve aches only pay for what you need. in your hands or feet? try nervive nerve relief from the world's number one nerve care company. nervive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and b-complex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. try nervive. >> when you hear the word and, try nervive pain relieving roll-on.

whistleblower, the first names that may come to mind me be chelsea manning or edward snowden. but we may not have ever heard from those voices if it were not for my next guest. daniel ellsberg shot promised mince in 1971 when he released the pennington papers, exposing the government lies about its conduct during that we are not more. he was targeted by nixon and was charged by the -- threatened with a maximum prison sentence of 150 years. risking life in prison,

ellsberg near faltered and speaking up for what he thought was right. telling reporters as much when he surrendered to authorities that senior. >> i felt that as an american citizen i was responsible, i can no longer cooperate in the dissemination of misinformation. >> the charges against ellsberg were thankfully later dismissed in a mistrial. since then, he has cemented himself as a postwar american icon and the voice of reason for so many on the issues we face both as a country and as a human race. press freedoms, nuclear -- government surveillance, climate change. but now, at the age of 93, ellsberg's an ounce t has been diagnosed with inoperable pancreatic cancer. doctors have given him between three and six months to live. earlier, i had the privilege of speaking with daniel ellsberg. we should all be listening to what he has to say. >> daniel ellsberg, thank you so much for joining us on the show tonight. we appreciate you taking time

out. can i start by asking you how you are feeling right now, and when you look on your life at a moment like this, your career, what are you most proud of? >> well, i'm feeling very well. under the circumstances. as well as can be expected. late stage terminal pancreatic cancer. in operable. so, i am very lucky to have loved this long. i'm lucky to be feeling as well right now. >> and, you said lucky to have live this long. when you look back on your nine decades plus on planet earth, what are you cherishing most, what memory do cherish most, what are you most proud of achieving? >> well, just to show how old i, am i am reading the paper today about the coronation. actually, i and my former wife, when we are both 20, we were on the curb watching princess elizabeth go to westminster abby to be crowned. we were there all night in the

drizzly rain, because it was -- come back from westminster abbey. so we've got that privilege position. it is those 70 years, i seem to be turning around again. i came back from england to await going into the marine corps, because i felt it was my turn. i had been accepted from conscription from a couple of years for education, so i thought it was my turn to go. and the korean war, sorry to say vietnam, the korean war was still very much on. and i was actually proud of my country than. i was in no way a militarist, had no -- but i thought it was right that we should be opposing oppression. and it clearly was aggression by the north koreans against the south. as a matter of fact, i stayed in the marines an extra year when i am my closest allies were creating -- the suez canal. i expected to be involved might

be tally and then, we were in the mediterranean. so again, aggression is still going on. 70 years later. >> and daniel, your most famous, of course, fear stance against the vietnam war. the aggression there. remind us of the moment you decided to become a whistleblower. that moment when you decided to copy and leak all those documents, the pentagon papers, to go against all you've done your career up until that point, when you decided to risk life in prison. remind us of that moment. >> well, a few weeks earlier, a little bit earlier, i had been introduced to young americans who were on their way to prison. in fact, to resist the draft and to resist what they thought was a wrongful war. i agreed with them on the. and the put that question in my mind. what should i do know? given that i am against the war. and given that i am ready to go to prison. as they are, without there -- would never occurred to me to ask that question of myself, it would've occurred to me do

something that -- -- put me in prison for life. but i think that wasn't excessive under the circumstances. their example was right. i got the message. i sensed the power of nonviolent action on my own life. so i had reason to think that it might have some effect on events, to shorten that war. >> daniel, the official argument for the vietnam war was to make the world a safer place from communism. of course, it didn't make the world a safer place. and most u.s. wars happened, sadly, in the year since. but how dangerous can you're in your view, is the world today, compared to when you release the pentagon papers, especially when we think about the threat from a nuclear war, from climate change, and more? >> well, i was extremely worried in the late 70s that nuclear war might well be imminent. i had a mistaken idea as to why that might be. i was under the delusion and it persuaded, i allowed myself to be persuaded that the soviet union was gearing up, preparing

itself to launch a surprise attack on the united states and that proved to be a total hoax. it was a delusion, they weren't even trying to acquire that capability at that time. the basis of that i would have said that it was a miracle that we go 70 more years without a nuclear war. we have arrived to putin i think again we are on the verge of it. it is a possible, an imminent possibility that nuclear war is either slow or large. the slow, people aren't thinking about, that is a very real possibility. and it would assure us into an era, i think, of small nuclear wars before the whole thing blew up in the clear winter vanquished us all. so i can't say -- world has gotten safer. i would have said that 30 years ago, when the first cold war ended. but there are people in this country, and abroad, who like the idea of cold war.

they would rather have a world divided in which the u.s. and its allies dominated half the world or half of europe. and protected them from the other half, rather than have a world in which there was democracy and peace and freedom across all of europe as gorbachev called for. it seemed possible than, not now. doesn't look possible. >> no. it doesn't, sadly. especially with events in ukraine, and last question before i let you go, joe biden said at the white house correspondents -- isn't a crime, by his administration -- julian assange for publishing secrets about u.s. war crimes in places like afghanistan. and prosecute him against the espionage act, as you word by richard nixon, which doesn't allow defendant to explain to a jury why they did what they did. so what is your advice, daniel, to a whistleblower who's looking at what happened to you, looking at what happened to

assange, or's noted, sees the espionage act, wants to speak out but is afraid? what is your advice? >> a chance of facing a very heavy penalty, as i expected to get at that time, putting out 7000 pages of top secret documents unexpected to go to prison for life. that didn't happen, again, almost by a miraculous -- exposure of crimes that nixon committed against me. now, it's much more likely that the whistleblower will be found out in the digital age. it remains true that there are certain circumstances in which it absolutely is justified and being willing to take the greatest personal risks for nonviolent truth telling, to try to avert war, try to avert a massive violation of the constitution, as in the case of ed snowden and that total surveillance. and the information that julian assange and chelsea manning put out about massive war crimes that we were committing in that

region. another words, there are times that it is worth giving your life for, to revert terrible catastrophe. we are, at this moment, on the road to hill. the world, in terms of climate and in terms of nuclear war possibilities, there should be, i think, a global emergency that is going to -- point out, it is just that people are not rising to that challenge. as for biden and julian essential, of course, going way back, he says that julia sanish is putting out the truth about the in 2010, doesn't 13, going back to that. he said that made him a -- terrorist. >> daniel. it was a ridiculous line for biden. -- he has been acting on it. >> it is obviously ridiculous. we are at a time. you said we need people to rise to the challenge. you did, we appreciate your service to this country, daniel. we all play for your well-being

and health going forward in the coming weeks and months. thank you so much. >> thank you, i appreciate it. >> daniel ellsberg, a living legend. after the break, when it comes to mass shootings, thoughts and prayers mean nothing they are not full of action. go take it for me. take it from the senator reverend raphael warnock. we will have more on that. ve more on that. (cecily) you're looking pleased with yourself. (seth) well, not to brag, but i just switched my whole family to verizon. (cecily) oh, it's america's most reliable 5g network. (seth) and it's only $35 a line. (neighbor) i got that deal too. (seth) oh hey, bragging buddies! (neighbor) my man! (cecily) this i don't need. (seth) you should give me a call! (vo) visit your verizon store and save big during our spring savings event. get the disney bundle with disney+, hulu, and espn+ included. all for just $35 a line. the savings you want. on the network worth bragging about. verizon ♪ma ma ma ma♪ [clears throut] for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops with two times more menthol per drop*, and the powerful rush of vicks vapors for fast-acting relief you can feel.

vicks vapocool drops. fast relief you can feel. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ want to stop lower body pain before it starts? there's a dr. scholl's for that. new dr. scholl's prevent pain insoles are the only ones clinically proven to prevent pain from muscle-induced joint stiffness and strain. so you can stay pain free. annika. i found the bomb. ok johann. there should be a blue wire and a yellow wire. from muscle-induced joint stiffness and strain. there's a blue wire with yellow stripes and a yellow wire with blue stripes. cut the blue one. one is mostly blue with yellow striping and the other one is yellow except for the parts where there are blue stripes, but it's still technically blue! are the blue stripes as fat as the yellow stripes? forget it! i'm cutting both wires!

visionworks. see the difference. pods biggest sale of the year is now extended! save up to 30% on moving and storage until may 9. and see why pods has been trusted with... over 6 million moves nationwide. save up to 30% now until may 9. visit pods.com today! i'm the sizzle in this promposal. and while romeo over here is trying to look cool, things are about to heat up. darn it, kyle! and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could end up paying for this yourself. so get allstate. (music throughout) you could end up paying for this yourself. get the royal treatment. join the millions playing royal match today. download now. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators

of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. from big cities, to small towns, and on main streets across the us, you'll find pnc bank. helping businesses both large and small, communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. we're proud to call these places home too. they're where we put down roots, and where together, we work to help move everyone's financial goals forward. pnc bank. one prilosec otc each morning blocks heartburn all day and all night. prilosec otc reduces excess acid for 24 hours, blocking heartburn before it starts. one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn. >> we often hear the common

refrain, the common deflection from republican politicians in the wake of a mass shooting. thoughts and prayers. thoughts and prayers. and yesterday was no different when the republican congressman who represents allen, texas, where that horrific massacre of innocence took place in the outlet mall went on cnn was asked a response to people who say thoughts and prayers aren't enough. >> many people argue that prayers aren't cutting it and prayers are not preventing the

next mass shooting. what is your response to that criticism? >> well, those are people that don't believe in an almighty god who, can and who has, who is absolutely in control of our lives. i am a christian, i believe that he is. we have people go with mental health, we are not taking care of. >> i well, i believe in an almighty god. i am a person of faith. and i say that is absolute offensive nonsense. you can't just outsource all of life's challenges and problems to god's mysterious ways. prayer has to go hand in hand with action. the holy quran says god does not change the state of a people till they change themselves. and it does not just the ground, the bible that christian republicans claim to read says in the pistol of james, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. so praying stop gun violence without doing anything to stop gun violence is worthless in

the eyes of god. in fact, i can't put it better than an actual pastor and senator, raphael warnock did, just days go on the senate floor, responding to a mass shooting that killed one and injured for a hospital in atlanta. >> as a pastor i am praying for those who are affected by this tragedy. but i hasten to say that thoughts and prayers are not enough. and, in fact, in, fact it is a contradiction to say that you are thinking and praying and then do nothing. it is to make a mockery of prayer. it is to trivialize faith. we pray not only with our lab tips, we pray with our legs. we pray by taking action. >> yes. exactly. don't mock or trivialize fate. take action in the name of

faith. to protect the innocent. from gun violence. after the break, i will continue this conversation with ayman mohyeldin. ayman mohyeldin. a ballet studio, an architecture firm... and homemade barbeque sauce. they're called 'small businesses.' but to the people who build them there's nothing 'small' about them. that's why at t-mobile for business... you'll save more than $1,000 versus verizon. and with price lock guarantee, we'll never raise your rate plan. so you can keep your focus on toe-turns and making sure the sauce is extra spicy. at t-mobile, there are no small businesses. ♪♪ with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein

with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv why give your family just ordinary eggs when they can enjoy the best? eggland's best. the only eggs with more fresh and delicious taste. plus, superior nutrition. which is now more important than ever. ♪♪ somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections

or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. i love it when he strips for me. we strip as a pack. i don't care who sees me strip. josh, you strip? breathe right opens your nose for nasal congestion relief you can feel right away. helping you breathe better day or night, here or there. breathe right. strip on. >> it's time to handed over to

my good friend ayman mohyeldin. before i go, amen, you just had me talking about gun violence and thoughts and prayers, nonsense from the right. i am an immigrant to this

country, as you know, i'm in american citizen overtly for three years. i love live in this country, i love bringing up my kids in this country but i think many immigrants would agree with me and saying that the one thing we cannot stand about having to bring up our kids in this country is the gun violence. it is top of the list of things that make us think, maybe we shouldn't have come here. it amazes me that americans still don't quite understand how unique this country is when it comes to gun violence. they still don't quite understand that the rest of the world does not live like this. i mean, i used to drop my kid to school in england and never had to worry about whether they would come home at the end of the day. now i have to worry about that when i drop my kids to school here. it is astonishing and it is just inexcusable. >> it is inexcusable. i've to think say, mehdi i think more more people are sharing your sentiment. i was on the air last night throughout the tragedy now is seeing some realtime reaction from republicans as their statements were coming in, these holiday tense, just simply offering more thoughts and prayers. and listening to the officials give that briefing where they

talk more and more abo