so rising costs create no less than a culinary catastrophe. we'll keep you posted. that does it for us this hour. make sure to joining us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday, 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern, our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. >> good to be with you, i'm katy tur. there are tens of thousands of people gathered along the southern border hoping to claim asylum at midnight, because that is when title 42 ends. despite pronouncements from the biden administration that the border is not open, thousands upon thousands will try their luck. they say they have no choice. hunger, violence, and poverty have long been driving factors behind mass migration, but the sheer number of people making their way to our southern border is hitting historic highs now

because of what immigration experts call a perfect storm of catastrophes, the pandemic, the ensuing recession, and the war in ukraine, which choked off grain exports, in other words, food. almost nowhere has been hit harder than latin america, pushing millions to flee in search of not just a better life, but life period. couple that with what smugglers are doing to take advantage, and a fire hose of misinformation on social media, telling people that now is the time to come. and you get what we are seeing right now, a crisis at the border, but not just the border in cities like el paso, interior cities, including new york, say they are at capacity. what exactly does that mean? what exactly is being done, and what exactly is being blocked by lawmakers who arguably benefit from using immigration as a campaign talking point? joining me now is nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley who's in el paso,

texas, for us. so julia, you know this story, this subject in and out, talk to us first about what you are seeing down there, the crisis you're seeing, would you call it a crisis, and then what the biden administration says it's going to do to replace title 42. >> that's right. i'm in el paso, a few feet behind me is juarez, mexico, where we have seen hundreds of migrants line up and be processed. i haven't seen as much traffic today. it's happening along different openings, they're letting people in to process them. some are sent back under title 42. those covid-19 restrictions that are due to lift at the end of the day today, but actually, it's only 17% of the more than 11,000 migrants that have crossed the border the past two days. really, a small number are being sent back under title 42 because mexico many times refuses to take back more than a certain amount. many of them are being released

on to the streets. when title 42 lifts, it will be new restrictions put in place. the biden administratio wants to raise the bar. if you cross to a country, on your way to a southern boarder and didn't claim asylum there, you could be eligible when you get to the united states. the question is numbers. cities like el paso get overwhelmed at border patrol facilities. they release them on the streets. if mexico won't take them back and there's no room in city shelters and no room in border patrol, where will these people go? and that's really what they're wrestling with now as they try to alleviate what could be a serious issue with overcrowding and a burden on cities like el paso. >> julia, let me ask you about politics, how does politics play into what we have been seeing? is there a desire to actually get an agreement done or is this something that's a better

political talking point, campaign talking point than solution? >> well, you know, katy, so few politicians have ever attempted to really answer the problem that's happening behind me, and that's when it comes to asylum. a lot of the border immigration reform proposals that get floated in congress have to deal with legalizing immigrants who are already in the united states or adding additional border security measures. they don't handle what happens when someone arrives right here and tries to claim asylum in the united states. which is their international right. how do we process it. do we take them all in. again, international rights, really hard to deal with those numbers. that started happening in 2014 under the obama administration, and so far no one has had a great solution to. we see piecemeal approaches from all different administrations in terms of who can be detained, can families be detained, can you separate children, which is what the trump administration did. can you raise the bar on what it means to claim asylum. all of this gets sent off to

court, and that's what's happening now. finally, they're able to lift title 42, even though the courts held it in place for so long. there's been a big build up and as far as the politics and the campaigns go, the biden administration has gotten dinged on both sides of the ail for their immigration policies and i think they have made a market shift. in fact, we asked the border patrol chief about this yesterday. yes, if you notice we're getting tougher on asylum and tougher on immigrants and tougher at the border, you're supposed to be noticing that. that's intentional. >> thank you very much. and you can see in the video that we have been showing all day long through the past week, in fact, how el paso is grappling with the growing number of people seeking asylum. it's not just those kinds of cities. here in new york, mayor adams says there's so many migrants, he has been forced to loosen rules around shelters, and now he's trying to bus migrants north to ease capacity here.

nbc news correspondent, gabe gutierrez has more. >> the battle over immigration has spilled over to rockland county, new york, orange town, new york, 25 miles north of manhattan. and last friday, local officials learned that new york city mayor, eric adams was planning to bus potentially hundreds of migrants to hotels in this county and another suburban county, right by new york city. local leaders were furious and have since gotten a temporary restraining order to prevent that. they've even posted some vehicles from the sheriff's department outside of this hotel to prevent migrants from being bussed in. meanwhile, mayor eric adams says that new york city is stretched thin. they have no more resources there to be able to handle this migrant influx and expect up to a thousand migrants a day. this is something that major cities across the country are feeling from chicago to philadelphia, to even denver where many migrants are sleeping

in a parking garage. others are sleeping in a place station in chicago, and this all comes even ahead of the lifting of title 42 later tonight. but here is rockland county, new york, local officials say they plan to keep fighting mayor eric adams plan, no word on whether he might back off on that plan, but it goes to show you, the intense nature of this immigration debate as it spills into suburban counties. back to you. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you very much. joining me is the aclu's deputy director of immigration rights project. lee, it's good to have you here. you were the lead lawyer on the title 42 challenge. how do you feel now that we're hours away from it being lifted? >> this should have been a moment for the united states to reset, rejoin the rest of the world and have a new asylum system or regain our footing on asylum and now we're in a situation where the biden administration is looking at recycling other trump

administration policies like the asylum bans. those are cases that i argued back under the trump administration. we were successful. president biden said he would not renew those. now he's going there again, and one of the things that i think is happening, and you touched on in the beginning is that the human dimension of this is being lost in statistics and abstract policy arguments. these are desperate people and you pointed out that there's a lot of hunger in poverty, and that's true. unfortunately, those people will not qualify for asylum. anybody who thinks that having an asylum system means everyone who's hungry or poor gets to come in, that's not true. only people who are in real danger. we have to have an asylum system. the other point you made, which i think is critical, is the politics. the biden administration is waiting until the last minute each time to try and put in place a system. they have had two years now to put an asylum system in place. we have the resources. no one is saying we don't want

the system to be more efficient. it has to be fair. they have had two years to do this, and now at the last minute, they're recycling short circuited policies. >> secretary mayorkas held a very lengthy briefing with reporters at the white house today, and he said this is not just a crisis at our border, there's 20 million displaced people who are seeking shelter or a new life to the south of us. we talked about the convergence of these crises, the pandemic, the recession. >> right. >> the war in ukraine, how it's feeding hunger, what we didn't mention is how it's feeding a cycle of violence, and you mentioned how hunger is not an asylum, not something you can use to claim asylum, but violence is. >> right. >> and a lot of these people are fleeing that. i wonder, is the biden administration doing anything to work with other countries to make sure that people are resettled so that they can find some stability elsewhere and maybe stop the influx all the way up here? >> i think they're claiming to

do that, and that's great. and we want them to do it. but ultimately, we can't shirk our responsibility to have an asylum system, so we're all for getting at those root causes. one of the misconceptions that you have pointed out is people want to pick up, carry their children for months, dangerous trips where the conditions are horrible. people do not want to do that. they want to remain in their own country. so we need to do that. but the people who are really in danger, we have to give them a hearing. you know, last night, president trump said he would even return to the family separation policy. i want people to understand there are still up to a thousand little children who were separated from their parents for the first time that president trump did that. we have to get away from looking at cruel policies that dehumanize people. >> so part of his argument last night, and it's the same argument he made while he was in the white house, so it's not a new position is that if you say this, you deter people from

coming. the idea that the messaging, i think the biden administration has this as well, we're saying don't come. the messaging doesn't always filter down. i mean, there are smugglers out there who are telling people who are looking for relief one thing about the policies here. there's social media tiktok posts which i was reading about in the times, which purports title 42 is lifted, anyone can come in, they're accepting migrants. the message from the united states is not getting filtered down. if you want to make the message that the country is not open to you, how do you make sure that people hear it? >> a few points on that, one is the ironic nature of the governors in certain states saying the border is open, so obviously that's sending a different message than the biden administration. the second point is we can't tell people who are actually in danger and eligible for asylum not to come. the third point, i just want to go back to family separation for a second. when i talk to mothers who said, you know, they lost their child.

would you have come if you had known you were going to lose your child. what choice did we have, the choice is to be potentially killed. we can't put people in the situation, we have to devote the resources. >> do we have the resources f we wanted to take people in and find them work in this country and settle them here, could we do it? >> we absolutely could. when i think of what most economists are saying now, we need the labor, and people say, we don't have the ability to process people at the border. we absolutely have the resources, i mean, dhs's budget is billions and billions. >> is this just a political issue then? >> i think it is. i think it is. we have the ability to do it. the united states can't be the only country in a world, save for a few countries that doesn't have an asylum system. >> the aclu, lee, thank you very much for joining us, it's good to see you. he said what? tommy tuberville confuses to endorse white nationalism, what he said once and twice to defend

his senate hold on military promotions. >> and george santos calls the indictment against him a witch hunt, what are his constituents calling it? from millions of job losses to a near certain recession, what the debt default would look like for you and me and the country and the world? and me a country and the world? staaaaacccceeeyyy! i'm the sizzle in this promposal. and tonight, sparks are gonna fly. kyle? and while romeo over here is trying to look cool, things are about to heat up. uh-oh. darn it, kyle! and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could end up paying for this yourself. sorry mr. sanchez! get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me. that's a hard no.

(psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good. there are folks with white nationalist beliefs, do you believe they should be serving in the military. >> you got to define that first, what is a white nationalist. >> someone who doesn't believe white and brown people -- >> you think a white nationalist is a nazi. >> that's one of their beliefs. >> i don't look at it like that. >> reporter: how do you look at? >> i look as a white nationalist

as a trump republican. >> reporter: do you agree with that assumption? >> i believe we should not be characterizing trump supporters, as white nationalists. >> julie tsirkin was trying to get clarification, for single handedly blocking military promotions in the senate. here's what he told wbhm. >> we are losing in the military so fast our readiness in terms of recruitments, and why, i can tell you why, because the democrats are attacking our military saying we need to get out the white extremists, white nationalists, people who don't believe in our agenda, as joe biden's agenda, they are destroying it. this year we will not reach any recruiting goals until the military, so if we want to talk about looking weak, that's where we're going to look weak.

we cannot start putting rules in there for one type, one group, and make different factions and military because that is the most important institution in the united states of america and our allies is a strong, hard-nosed killing machine, which is called our military. >> you mentioned the biden administration trying to prevent white nationalists from being in the military. do you believe they should allow white nationalists in the military? >> well, they call them that. i call them americans. >> senator tuberville has halted all high level military promotions since early march in protest of d.o.d.'s abortion policies. joining me now is capitol hill correspondent ali vitali and pentagon correspondent courtney kube. can you help us understand what the senator is saying. does he know what he's saying?

>> reporter: we have lost the plot here. the part that's more tangible is the way tuberville has been blocking military promotions and nominations, and there's a lot of talk about the blanket ban and the national security implications about that, which of course court is going to get into and knows so well. tuberville says he's not going to be moving on that, until d.o.d. changes the policy on abortion. now he's asking reporters in the hallway to define what a white nationalist is and seemingly airing a political gripe about the way that some trump supporters are supposedly talked about, and again, i have to go back to the idea that i think we have lost the original plot. the fact, though, that he is now in this situation where he's seemingly defending white nationalists as he talks about political wokeness in the military, that's sort of the thread that i'm following here with this. it is easy to get confused but it's yet another moment where you have to wonder, you know, where republicans are going with

their defense of this, and it does stem a bit from the trumpism of it all. >> can you also explain to us where this came from initially, the holding of these military promotions, why is he doing it, and how does he have the power to single handedly halt these promotions. >> reporter: he can say what can happen and what can't happen in the senate. all it takes is 100 senators say we're going to do this by unanimous consent, in this case, around military nominations. tuberville is putting a blanket hold there because of the department of defense policy that was announced several months ago after the dobbs decision that said they would cover expenses for things like travel and lodging for veterans who wanted to access abortion care but lived in states, for example, where they would have had to travel to do. so it's one of the few things that the biden administration was able to do in terms of expanding abortion accessibility in the after math of dobbs. something that democrats in the

senate pushed them to do at the agency level, and now of course they have done, tuberville is pushing back against that is, and we have seen, frankly, letters back and forth between people like senator elizabeth warren and the department of defense. again, warning of the national security implications of this kind of a blanket hold. tuberville said it's not unprecedented for him to do this, but at the same time, there's a lot of pressure that he's facing to release this hold and allow these promotions to go through. >> courtney, who are these people that are being held back? >> about 200 nominees for general offices and flag officers, which, when you think about the size of the military, more than 2 million service members, active guard and reserve, that seems like a small number, but chairman of the joint chiefs described it well today, why there's a ripple effect when you have a promotion hold like this. so if you have about 200 members, their pro motions are being held up. think about that, that has a trickle down effect from the

people who would move into their spot, and then so on and so on. and also think about the time of year. it's may. a lot of the permanent change of stations, the time the military is moving on to another job with their families in many cases, happens during the summer. so this is creating a backlog where you have members of the military and their families who don't know if or when they will be able to move, and then you have kids and dependents who don't know potentially where nair going to be going to school. when you add all of that up as general milley explained isn't the senate appropriations committee, it ends up impacting potentially thousands of people with this trickle down effect, and ali made the perfect point there, defense officials who we have been speaking to about this say that as of now, there is no movement on this issue. this is something that could carry through to the summer when we're expecting to hear a number of big nominees. we have a couple of very senior military leader jobs that are

coming up for replacement. including the chief of staff of the army, the chief of naval operations, the head of the navy, the chairman of the joint chiefs, he's due to retire in late september, early october. there are a bunch of big names and big jobs that are going to be coming up here, katy, and if this is not resolved, they will be held up, and then we will see not only the impact on the families, we will see a real impact on the military leadership because of senator tuberville's hold here. >> tuberville says the readiness issue is not because of that. it's because democrats want to get white nationalists out of the military. what has the pentagon said about that? >> senator tuberville is right. there is a continuing recruitment problem in the military, across all services. that was the case in 2022, it continues to be the case now in '23. he's absolutely right about that. but the numbers done really support that it has anything to do with white nationalism or some of the argues we hear from colleagues in the house as well.

there's a problem with wokism, the military is becoming too woke, and because of that, people, it's not recruiting new members. that may be a small percentage of people not joining because of that. one of the reasons young americans aren't joining the military is they are concerned about things like going to combat, going to war. there's a generational shift in how the military is seen right now. we don't have as many parents who have been serving in the military, so they're not really encouraging their kids to serve in the military. so there's sort of this generational shift. but the reality is this has been an argument on capitol hill for months now that because of these newer policies about diversity and equality in the military, it's driving recruits away. the numbers don't generally support that, though, katy. . >> so on wednesday, yesterday, when asked about the npr comments, tuberville's office clarified those remarks saying that it shows he was being

skeptical of the notion that there are white national s in the military, before our colleague, julie tsirkin had in this segment. thank you very much. and ahead, from pardoning january 6th rioters, pardoning a man convicted of murdering another man. what some republican leaders are saying they will do to the rule of law. first, though, who gets hit the hardest if the government defaults on its debts? t defaults on its debts? choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms.

alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. ♪ ...i'm over 45. ♪ ♪ i realize i'm no spring chicken. ♪ ♪ i know what's right for me. ♪ ♪ i've got a plan to which i'm sticking. ♪ ♪ my doc wrote me the script. ♪ ♪ box came by mail. ♪ ♪ showed up on friday. ♪ ♪ i screened with cologuard and did it my way! ♪ cologuard is a one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur.

ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ (group) i did it my way! ♪ type 2 diabetes? discover the power of 3 in the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ (oh, oh, oh, ozempic®!) ♪ in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes.

taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. join the millions already taking ozempic®. ask your health care provider about the ozempic® tri-zone. you may pay as little as $25 for a 3-month prescription. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data and unlimited hotspot data. so no matter what... i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon.

there are now 20 days before the u.s. might default on its debt. cnbc's kayla tausche explains what will happen and who it will hurt. >> reporter: the u.s. has maxed out its nearly $32 trillion credit card, and congress has just three weeks to raise the limit. a default top economists say would lead to financial disaster. a stock market dive, tanking 401(k)s and a spike in job losses. missing the deadline by a week would cost 1.5 million jobs, soaring to 8 million if the deadlock reaches the fall. in either case, a recession. and some federal spending could be in jeopardy, including here at all saints food pantry in detroit which could lose a third of its annual budget.

>> we could have a point we don't have anymore food to give. >> reporter: devine telling us she relies on this food. her family struggling with high inflation. >> the cost of living went up a lot, so it's hard. >> reporter: a potential default could put benefits for veterans at risk. we met shannon galloway, whose husband chris served in iraq and afghanistan. since he died 14 years ago, the galloways have relied on payments from the government. >> those benefits are how we pay our mortgage, how we pay our utilities, how we pay daily cost of living. >> what would your message be to the leaders in washington? >> this isn't just politics, this is our family, this is our daily life. >> joining me now is nbc news senior policy reporter shannon petty piece. how is it going to affect small business owners? >> this could potentially be sat

catastrophic for them. they are dealing with the effects of covid, high inflation, and one small business owner said that this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for many of them. you heard in kayla's reporting there, talking about the economic consequences of all of this. millions of people out of jobs, tumbling stock markets, that will all impact consumer confidence, and for small businesses shrink their customer base, shrink how much people are spending and unlike a large company, a lot of them don't have balance sheets to get them through a difficult time. >> it's also about lending as well. if we default, we fall into a recession, banks are likely to limit who they lend to. >> right. and a lot of people don't realize how dependent small businesses are on loans, not only for growing, if they want to add a new franchise or increase production or add employees, but in some

instances, borrowing just to meet daily payroll, particularly if there's a big event that cuts into their revenue like a government default. one of the most immediate consequences of a default by the u.s. government would be banks pulling back on lending, on not giving loans to as many businesses and individuals as they used to, and also an increase in interest rates. even if small businesses could get a loan to get through hard times, it would be at significantly higher interest rates that could hurt their business in the long term. they refer to it as a catastrophic situation, they're hoping to be avoided, focused on issue to get their business off the ground. they're hoping policy makers in washington step up and find a solution. >> this is not even including the default, a lot of large businesses in this country, big corporations have been laying off sections of their work force in anticipation that their balance sheet is going to get smaller and smaller and they're

going to cut costs. how are small businesses preparing themselves for what could come because congressional leaders and the white house can't come to an agreement. by the way, on that note, i should say the white house and congressional staffers met for two hours today on the debt limit, and there is another meeting with the primaries, the white house, president biden and speaker mccarthy tomorrow. >> a lot going on in washington, but for business owners, i mean, one financial analyst told me that preparing for this is like preparing for a comet to hit the earth. there's not a way some of them can prepare for this, particularly those with significant government business and sub contractors, the federal government to expect their stream of revenue to screech to a halt if there should be a government default. others say they're kind of trying to do things, like keep as much cash on hand as possible. one business group advised members, take out a loan now, just in case you might need that

money in a few weeks. you'll have that in the bank if there's a default. >> shannon pettypiece, thank you very much. when the courts don't matter wharks some -- what some prominent republican leaders are promising to do to overcome violent convictions. quote, he's a crook, what george santos's own constituents think of him in their own words. s think of him in their own words. ? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data and unlimited hotspot data. so no matter what... i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪

♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand, and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy, and save at trelegy.com age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health

versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv want to stop lower body pain before it starts? there's a dr. scholl's for that. new dr. scholl's prevent pain insoles are the only ones clinically proven to prevent pain from muscle-induced joint stiffness and strain. so you can stay pain free. so it's decided, we'll park even deeper into parking spaces so people think they're open. surprise. [ laughs ] [ horn honks, muffled talking ] -can't hear you, jerry. -sorry. uh, yeah, can we get a system where when someone's bike is in the shop, then we could borrow someone else's? -no! -no! or you can get a quote with america's number-one motorcycle insurer and maybe save some money while you're at it. all in favor of that. [ horn honking ] there's a lot of buttons and knobs in here.

(christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data [ horn honking ] and unlimited hotspot data. so no matter what... i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. one prilosec otc each morning blocks heartburn all day and all night. prilosec otc reduces excess acid for 24 hours, blocking heartburn before it starts. one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

after my car accident, blocking heartburn before it starts. one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn. i wondered what my case was worth. so i called the barnes firm. when that car hit my motorcycle, insurance wasn't fair. so i called the barnes firm. it was the best call i could've made. atat t bararnefirmrm, our r inry a attneysys wk hahard i could've made. atat t bararnefirmrm, to get you the best result possible. call us now and find out what your case could be worth. you u mit bebe sprisised ♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪

it is not just donald trump who once again promised to pardon a quote, large portion of the convicted january 6th rioters last night. it's also texas governor greg abbott who says he wants to pardon a man a texas jury just convicted of murdering a black lives matter protester. joining me now is nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard who's in manchester, new hampshire, and "new york times" chief white house correspondent and nbc news political analyst, peter baker. so on the subject of i'm saying overcoming the courts because it's not overturning a criminal conviction. it's pardoning someone. it's overcoming the rule of law, deciding that you know better than juries do. you know better than judges do. what else did you hear last night from the republican nominee for president but also from republicans in general about their support for these types of policies, these types of moves?

>> and i think it's a statement about what is potentially to come, because what donald trump, by suggesting he pardon these individuals, it's a pure suggestion that the acts they did that day should lack consequences, and when you're talking about somebody who tried to overturn already one presidential election, he was not straightforward when asked whether he would uphold the election results in 2024, and the danger that was presented on january 6th was notable. it was a week and a half ago i was standing in new hampshire and you and i were having a confers about the woman he called terrific. that woman was there on january 6th, is one of the defendants, and suggested to me after the fact that members of congress who certified the election that day should be executed, you know, very graphic in not meant flippantly, but meant in serious terms. when you're talking about here where the american electorate is, i heard a lot of

conversation about, oh, they really solidified the independents are going to go with joe biden the next time around. there's a potential there could be a third party candidate. there's a potential that there could be an economic downturn, there could be a major foreign conflict that could really upend our political system here in america, and right now an nbc news national polling, 34% of americans view donald trump positively. 13% neutral. almost 15% of americans who do not view him in a less favorable way. those numbers are higher than january of 2021. when we look at the folks that were laughing in the room there yesterday, alongside donald trump as he mocked a woman who he was found liable to have sexually abused just a day prior, you are talking about one-third of the american electorate that is solidly behind it here, and is a potent part of the american electorate. we're talking about the next 18 months, who knows where our american political system finds

itself, it's not one that should be diminished. >> people can disagree with the courts all the time, and they often do. there's an appeals process, when you do disagree, you keep appealing it up and up and up. the calling for the verdicts to be overturned as frequently as they have been called for is surprising, especially when considering what kind of verdicts these are. these are not civil verdicts, they are criminal convictions for violent offenders. i think we should touch on what greg abbott said we should do in texas, pardoning a man who is accused of murdering a black lives matter protester, a jury in texas found that he murdered them, and a judge sentenced him to 25 years. >> yeah, i think, first of all, the pardon power, the texas constitution, and it's there for a purpose. but it's traditionally been used as a safety valve when the system of justice failed in some way. somebody was wrongly convicted, when somebody has, you know, been clearly the victim of

excessive prosecution or miscarriage of justice or at least is shown as they have done in the past, you know, some degree of contrition, and, you know, often because they actually served their sentences and done good deeds and a president or governor wants to return to society, recognize that conversion, if you will. this kind of thing we're seeing now, governor abbott, and former president trump, that's not the way pardons have been traditionally used. the justice department guidelines, these are not finding on a president because the constitution gives the president power. the justice department guidelines traditionally have been, you don't get to be considered for a pardon until you actually serve your sentence. in other words, the idea is we are going to forgive your crimes because you have done something to deserve it, not because we view your crimes as political, and we are acting in a political fashion. these are politically motivated pardons because of their politics of the cases involved,

not a system where you've got somebody who you think has been mistreated by the system of justice for an out of control prosecutor or some system where evidence got mishandled orring in -- or something like that. >> i don't want to be pollyanna-ish about this, donald trump was a step out of the norm, yes, and we expect this from donald trump. he said the same thing about the january 6th rioters before, and his desire to pardon them, we can expect him to say it again. there are other republican leaders embracing that and going forward with it. when i bring up governor abbott, i wonder how much farther this gets into the political bloodstream of republican leaders as they get elected or maintain their grip on office? >> reporter: i would say there's not a political cost to doing it, you'll see a lot more of it, right? you're right. other leaders, presidents and governors have used the pardon par in politically charged

cases. george h.w. bush pardoned iran contra. and bill clinton pardons an ex-donor of his library. there's a reason they did that at the end of the presidency. they knew it was politically, told there doesn't seem to be any worry this would be problematic at the ballot box. donald trump is using it as an appeal to his hard core base, the idea that he would use the pardon power to, you know, in effect overturn the judgment of the justice system. also by the way, keep in mind, he was asked would he consider it in the cases of those who were ccted of seditious conspiracy, he would think about it. pardoning people who were charged with betraying their country. not just, you know, who got out of control and went too far and,

you know, trespassing on the capitol. people who were convicted of seditious conspiracy. >> peter baker, vaughn hillyard, thank you very much. >> and coming up next, who will vote for george santos in 2024? nbc's ehema ellis is in his district asking constituents what they think of their freshman congressman. of their freshman congrsmesan (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data and unlimited hotspot data.

so no matter what... i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. (man) what if my type 2 diabetes takes over? (woman) what if all i do isn't enough? or what if i can do diabetes differently? (avo) now you can with once-weekly mounjaro. mounjaro helps your body regulate blood sugar, and mounjaro can help decrease how much food you eat.

3 out of 4 people reached an a1c of less than 7%. plus people taking mounjaro lost up to 25 pounds. mounjaro is not for people with type 1 diabetes or children. don't take mounjaro, if you're allergic to it, you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop mounjaro, and call your doctor right away, if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, vision changes, or diabetic retinopathy. serious side effects may include pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. taking mounjaro with sulfonylurea or insulin raises low blood sugar risk. tell your doctor if you're nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. side effects include nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea which can cause dehydration and may worsen kidney problems. (woman) i can do diabetes differently with mounjaro. (avo) ask your doctor about once-weekly mounjaro.

i've never been healthier. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today.

(christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data and unlimited hotspot data. so no matter what... i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. age-related macular degeneration may lead to severe vision loss and if you're taking a multi-vitamin alone, you may be missing a critical piece... preservision. preservision areds 2 contains the only clinically proven nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. preservision is backed by 20 years of clinical studies. so ask your doctor about adding preservision and fill in a missing piece of your plan. like i did with preservision. now with ocusorb better absorbing nutrients. the reality is it's a witch

hunt. i'm going to fight my battle. i'm going to deliver. i'm going to fight the witch hunt. i'm going to take care of clearing my name and i look forward to doing that. >> are you planning on running for reelection? >> yes, i am. >> freshly indicted, freshman congressman george santos says he's ready to run again. today he will be back on the house floor doing exactly all it appears speaker kevin mccarthy thinks he's good for. voting alongside his party. joining me now is nbc news correspondent rehema ellis in great neck plaza in new york in george santos's district. kevin mccarthy says he will not be supportingsantos' district. are you getting any voters out there saying that, yeah, they want to see george santos go for it again? >> reporter: not one. not one. we've asked a lot of people. we've been standing here all day, and either the folks that we've asked don't support him or they don't want to let anybody know that they support him.

but he did win this district by about eight points over his democratic opponent, but he quickly lost the support of the voters in this area. take a listen. >> i think santos should resign because he's a lying bastard and he should plead guilty to his offenses. >> the outrage, i'm sure, is pretty widespread. nobody is voting for candidates based on -- if they knew that, they would never vote for that. >> would you vote for him again? >> never. >> why not? >> because obviously what it means, he's a crook, he's a liar, a cheat. see what else i can add? >> a thief. completely dishonest. but otherwise, i'm sure he's a nice guy. >> reporter: we heard a lot of that most of today, katy. we also have video of congressman santos returning to

his place of employment today back in the halls of congress where he says he's going to go and do his job because he says he is not guilty of the charges in this 13-count federal indictment that he responded to yesterday in federal court here in long island. he's on the job insisting he will do his job. people here in long island are saying they don't trust him. they think he's a con man. he was only voted into that position, people say, because he lied to them about his employment background, his education background and much of the story about his life in general, folks said to me today. they don't feel that they can trust him. because they don't feel they can trust him, because he's been removed from committee positions, many people are saying they just don't think they have a representative in the house of representatives right now. and a lot of them are saying that they wish santos would just resign and forget about running for re-election.

katy. >> rehema ellis, thank you very much. that was video of george santos returning to congress. coming up, one israeli and 28 palestinians are dead as the conflict flares up again. what egypt says it is doing to immediate. ing to immediate. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. this week is your chance to try any subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. everyone loves free stuff chuck. can we get peyton a footlong? get it before it's gone. on the subway app.

- here we go. get it before it's gone. - remember, mom's a kayak denier, so please don't bring it up. - bring what up? kayak? - excuse me? do the research, todd. - listen to me. kayak searches hundreds of travel sites to find you great deals on flights, cars and hotels. - they're lying to you. - who's they? kayak? - arr! - open your eyes! - compare hundreds of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done. choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine

treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon.

only at vanguard you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means that your priorities are ours too. our interactive tools and advice can help you build a future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership. when i was his age, can help you build a future for the ones you love. we had to be inside to watch live sports. but with xfinity, we get the fastest mobile service and can stream down the street or around the block! hey, can you be less sister, more car? all right, let's get this over with.

switch to xfinity mobile and get the best price for 2 lines of unlimited. just $30 a line per month. i should get paid more for this. you get paid when you win. from xfinity. home of the 10g network. israel's iron dome has been lighting up over the past few days, taking out rockets launched from the gaza strip. at least one got through according to reports killing an israeli man. at the same time it says it fired rockets back killing two commanders of the pal stillian militant group. the health ministry says a total of 28 people have been killed since tuesday including ten civilians, mostly women and children. joining me from tel aviv is nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez. raf, how is egypt trying to mediate this?

>> reporter: egypt is the traditional mediator. when you have fighting like this, everyone looks to egypt because they are the ones that speak to both the israelis and palestinians. we know there's intensive diplomacy going on. jake sullivan, president biden's national security adviser speaking to his israeli counterpart saying the u.s. wants to see a cease-fire, but for now, as you said, the skies above southern israel and gaza are still full of explosions. the israeli military says some 800 rockets have been fired over the last few days, and one of them scoring a direct hit in an apartment building in the city of rohova killing an elderly man. on the palestinian side there are already at least 29 people dead according to the health ministry, two senior commanders with islamic jihad killed in rapid succession in israeli strikes earlier today, but a

growing number of civilians including at least six small children. palestinians today are mourning those losses, also marking the death of the al jazeera correspondent killed last year in the occupied west bank. you remember, katy, israel eventually acknowledged that it was likely that one of its soldiers fired the fatal shot, but as yet, nobody has been held accountable for the killing of a u.s. citizen in the west bank. that is a source of deep frustration for his family, but also for some democrats in congress. i spoke earlier this week to senator chris van hollen from maryland who has been a leading voice pushing the biden administration to do more to get justice for the death of an american. i want you to take a listen to a little bit of what he told me. >> what we're looking here for is transparency. look, we just need to get all

the facts. we need cooperation from all the witnesses. it needs to be independent, and that should lead to some form of accountability in the shooting death of an american citizen and prominent journalist. >> reporter: katy, the fbi has launched an investigation into shah reen's death. from what we can tell, that investigation doesn't appear to be making a lot of progress. they still have not spoken to a number of key witnesses in the west bank. >> raf sanchez, thank you very much. that is going to do it for me. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪ ♪ >> hi everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. a special two-hour program today focused on extremism and hate and the perils of platforming it. in a post dominion versus fox