of the house, has said he will allow george santos to remain in the house, because he said this has happened before, there are members of congress, they have been indicted, and it's not until they're convicted that they get kicked out of congress. so this is one of the examples he used. ken dilanian, thank you very much. and that right there is going to do it for me today. on this friday. happy mother's day, everybody. make sure you go out and buy flowers. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. happy friday. it's 4:00 in new york. you know what i want for mother's day? my very own silo. see, the response to criticism of the decision from the top of the company to platform or publish known falsities from a twice-impeached, once-indicted ex president, liable for sexual abuse and defamation is at that the problem is not with

platforming and publishing, said liar, the problem is us. that, ladies and gentlemen, is textbook gas lighting. i say this with sadness, affection, awe and a little bit of envy. we live in a world in which your immediate family, your child's immediate circle of teachers, coaches, friends, friends' parents, your neighbors, loved ones and social circle doesn't include people who voted for different people than you voted for, than you live in the only silo i'm aware of. this is annerson's cooper defense of cnn's campaign style event earlier in the week. >> maybe you haven't been paying attention to him since he left off and enjoying not hearing from him, saying it can't happen again, some investigation is going to stop him. it hasn't so far. so if last night showed anything, showed it can happen again. it is happening again. he hasn't changed. and he is running hard.

you have every right to be outrame and angry and never watch this network again gut do you think stay nurg silo and only staying with person you agree with is going to make that problem go away william. >> the problem isn't us and our silo, and everyone in their lives who voted for donald trump and believed donald trump and hell scapes and guns are good and drag shows are the real culprits for society's ills and anyone who thinks we're the problem because we're in our silos should donate time shares in a silo for those of us who could really use a break. the criticism, let me be specific here, my criticism is platforming the known liar inside his silo. and depicting that as some alternate reality. and not what it really is. life from the dark side of the moon. the ongoing fallout from cnn's decision to platform and defend

platforming, known liar donald trump, seven months ahead of the first gop primaries, is where we start today. joining us here at the table for the hour, the reverend al sharpton, host of msnbc's "politics nation," as well as the president of the national action network. "new york times" editorial board member and msnbc contributor, and the executive producer of show time's the sir, the host of the hell and high water podcast, john is here. i start with you. >> hi. >> what do you think? >> where can i get a silo? >> i mean, it is a complicated set of issues. do i think, what i think is true, that anderson is true, is that i think there are, in our immediato ecosystem, there are definitely silos. there are people who watch, the problem with confirmation bias, where liberals watch liberal tv and conservatives watch conservative tv or conservative social media and liberal social media, that's a real phenomenon, and it's a problem. i totally agree with you that even if you live in the most liberal enclave in west

hollywood, or in, on the west side of manhattan, you run into, you encounter people all day long, as you say, in your kid's schools and your gym or whatever. >> most people's parents, children, i mean -- >> and trump voters, you've been listening to, you you've been having this discussion, argument, fight for the last now, going on seven years. >> going on seven years. >> so i think there is some truth to both, there's some truth to both points. i think in the end, i understand the arguments that are made, and i think it is a very difficult thing to wrestle. with a former president of the united states, approves a front-runner for the republican nomination and you got to cover him and you got to cover him every day on the show and it is hard to take a position, when you do this show in five years, we should not give donald trump air time with the danger he poses to american democracy. i know we talked about it the last 30 seconds before we came

on air, i don't think it is right, if your position, the head of cnn, love chris, a friend of mine, but did he say, i'm not going to people on the air when they say it is raining and it is not, and saying it is raining outside every day over and over again when it is not and in fact is a fire hose of disinformation and put him on live. i don't think -- i think he's going to get covered, she get scrutinized, we need to hear how dangerous he is, he is more dangerous now than he was even seven years ago, and we need know, that everyone needs to know that, that's what you do every day is remind people how dangerous he is. but we don't need to have him on live to millions of people and put him in front of a crowd that will applaud him over and over again. >> i think the thing is to acknowledge that this is really hard, and there are good faith actors and bad faith actors. i think you have to assume that our friends over at cnn are good faith actors who got something, maybe right, in their view, right? i think they're happy with it. but i think we live in a moment

where we can't have a conversation and own our choices, instead of blaming the audience, that was, that was deflection and projection. and part of what trump ushered in was gas lighting at an historic level in our politic, and if it spreads into the media, we're in deep trouble. >> you know, the whole or deal made me deeply uncomfortable. not just as a viewer, because it was disturbing, of course, but just to see donald trump kind of in all of his glory, and it really was demagogue-ish, but also, as a journalist, just because i think it is a difficult thing, and i do take cnn, i'm sure they were acting in good faith, the problem is, you know, they basically set themselves up for failure, i think, because you never want to just hand over your platform to any politician, to do with it whatever they choose.

journalism is about asking tough questions. it's about learning new information and making sure that you're informing the public. and i think that they lost the thread a little bit, and i don't know, we don't know what the negotiations were, but the format, having it live, unable to fact check him, calling him mr. president repeatedly, which is arguably something that maybe he doesn't need at this point. i don't know if it was a planned negotiation. and then having an audience that was rabidly pro-trump, that really gives the impression to viewers in america that this is a larger group than it is, but more importantly, because of course, there are lots of trump supporters, it really was more like a trump rally that he had organized than like a journalism event, and that's why i was uncomfortable. >> and it proves that he is obviously the better negotiator than whoever -- let me just say,

i'm covered every sitdown interview that every reputable journalist has done with donald trump, you have sat here with a lot of them, all of you have, jonathan swan sat down with donald trump and asked him whatever the latest siding with russia instead of the intelligence agency, i think i led the show, when donald trump is interviewed by credible journalists on tape, i always cover the news that is made. this is not about that. this is about you saying to your viewers, it is you, not us, that you didn't like, a campaign style rally, when the sporpers were guffawing and after, with a sexual abuse trial. >> the day after he was found liable, he was able to change the story from what happened in court to what happened on cnn. . what i would question, i talked to chris one time, around, concerns around don lemon and he seemed to be reasonable, and what i would ask is where is

your town hall for asa hutchinson and tim scott, and are do youing town hall for every candidate? and if not, why did you do donald trump? >> and to anderson's point, who i have a lot of respect, for are it is not about the silo, it is about what is the policy there, because unless you're having town halls for every republican candidate that can put their people in the audience, then explain to us why you made an exception for donald trump. and if it is not an exception, give us the calendar when you are doing the other town hall meetings. >> specifically on the end of that, there is nothing scheduled about. but there may be. >> i'm not going to be a cnn defender. and there is a question about policies. nikki haley. >> is it announced? >> yes, so there is three then. >> i'm sorry.

>> you're making your own point. >> and but look, they may very well, again, we'll wait and see what they end up doing, because they may do the next three, maybe as they work their way down the poll, i don't know what the answer to that question, and i also want to say, just to give credit to kate lan collins who did a valiant job in trying to fact check donald trump, it wasn't a trump rally, he was fact checked when he lied about january 6th and there were journalists who questioned him throughout. and i wrote a dozen articles i believe in 2016, he's a steam roller and the reason why jonathan swan who did a brilliant job in that interview, not having that interview, not be live, and having, to say, that they edited fairly, but having it not be live and not having it in front of an audience live is almost a precondition, if you're going to have someone who is going to lie, spread disinformation, about the most fundamental things in our politics, conspiracy theories, not just lying in the garden variety way that a lot of politicians do

with fibbing but going out and saying absurd things about the foundations of american democracy, like spreading conspiracy theories through this very large mega phone. if you are going to have that man on, and not surrender the platform, have a tough journalist, don't do it live, and don't put it in front of an audience that is, at least not an audience that you are, that turns out to be, at least by all appearances, turned out to not be an audience of undecided voters but turned out to be an audience overwhelmingly pro-trump audience. there are things you can do to achieve the goal of cnn that i think in good faith does want to achieve. there's things to learn from this. the things to learn from it are some of the things you are talking about today. but again, i don't think it was just a completely cynical ratings grab, i don't think i think they were platforming him, i think they learned hopefully that this, and to your point, to blame the things that went wrong, to blame that on the

audience, that's a very far reach. >> i think the point about the timing of this is important, though. because you know, they didn't have to do it now. they could have waited until there were more republicans in the race. and as journalists, you know, especially when i was on the news side, we are exceptionally wary of putting our thumb on the scale, and you want to get at every single candidate, equal time, up until voters start voting and expressing who really is the lead candidate in a race. and so you never want to get the cart ahead of the horse and create an apparent heir to any office, in this case the presidency of the united states, by simply offering the platform, an i fear that that -- i don't think, i know that wasn't intentional. i fear that's what happened here. >> we covered the story here today. i don't think anyone said anything but praise for kate lan

collins, i don't think anderson cooper is the conversation either, i think it is platforming, and today it is cnn and by monday it could be about twitter and by tuesday it could be someone else entirely. >> and again, i'm not accusing them of a cynical ratings grab. i think it was not well thought out. if i was at cnn, or if it was here, i would say we must time it where we're going to give every candidate -- you give the candidate who has already said i'm not going to the debates, so i mean he is not going to the debates, so i mean, so -- >> amazing. >> a free hour? the guy who made it in politics because he knows how to brand himself, and put his name everywhere, i respect the reporter, kaitlan did a good job, but you're talking about a guy who marketed and branded his way to the white house. i mean come on. you don't think he knew what to do in an hour with an audience? and he says and by the way, i'm

not debating my opponents. i don't have to. i got an hour free on cnn. >> this is about supreme discomfort with what we do with donald trump, and the person at the table who has known him the longest, what do you think we should do with donald trump? >> i think we ought to either ignore him, which i think is perilous, because he's going to pick up steam, he has a following, or we need to confront him. donald trump, with all of his bluster, and as you said, i've known him a long time, and i applaud him, donald trump does not like somebody that will fight him back. notice he picks his fights. and he knows people that will not fight him back. and he looks for that weak spot in you, and he goes after it, and if he can't find it, he's not going to mess with you. and that's how he has been for 30 years. because he's just that kind of guy. he is not as bad as his block, but he knows most people run

from dogs that bark. and i'm not calling im a dog. if you go up to him and confront him, he's a guy who will change his story 40 times. he's all called me every name key and came to my national action network conventions twice. >> roll up the sleeves. >> what you're articulating is to solve for the asymmetry. the way he defeats 16 republicans in the republican primaries in 2016 is the asymmetry. the reason this was a debacle in terms of the free-flow of information, and truth, which is a stated mission at that network, i'm not projecting something on to them that i want that they don't say they believe in, because of the asymmetry. because good faith actors couldn't get a word in edge-wise, all that was spewed into the universe was trump's bs. >> right. >> this is the whole thing. you know, you can never allow

any candidate, every political reporter in america knows it, you cannot allow political candidates to set the terms of an interview. >> right. >> he certainly never did when i worked in politics. >> you know that's how it works. and you know that. the format didn't allow for that exchange. and instead, it gave him an hour of free tv. >> give me throw out there some things that have come from inside cnn, from the highly-regarded oliver darcee who writes, reliable sources. he wrote this. 24 hours after cnn's town hall, it is all anyone is talking about, throughout the day in fact we heard from dozens of network staffers ranging in seniority and positions across the organization who all expressed dismay by what they saw transpire on their television screens. i'm still writing this letter right now, i am still fielding messages and phone calls. >> this is cnn's media critic writing about cnn, and when he is talking about staff, he is talking about colleagues and

co-workers. >> this is what was put out in the public. i'm sure you have a sense of the high degree of angst and alarm over there. >> no one diminishes it. there is a high three of angst and alarm at cnn over the course of changes over the last year. there is a lot of angst and alarm going on in our business in general right now. i think the point you're making, is the most important thing here, is that without getting into some kind of a hissing match with cnn, and i know this is not what you're trying to do, this is the beginning, that people sort of struggled to deal with donald trump, in a million ways in 2016, throughout his presidency, and then in the period of the post insurrection period, right? and we are now heading into a presidential election which he will be a front running, by all indication, will be the republican front-runner, is the likely republican nominee for president. and every one in the business who is operating in good faith is in fact struggling with it. and i think that alarm and outrage, rather than focusing as some people, do i'm not saying

you are, but it is cnn, it is like everybody is, they understand, he's a former president. and they understand he is uniquely dangerous. they understand that they're shining a light on something that is super important and not letting somebody spew disinformation and conspiracy theories, also super important. and try to figure it out, is what everybody i think, those good faith actors, which is most of the people, at all of these outlets that do journalism in a credible way, so everybody is trying to do right now, how do we deal with it? there is no precedent for this. and we've struggled -- >> let me just pitch back. and you're throwing out some strawmen. nobody attacked kaitlan collins, it has been eight years, trump has been touting birtherism for 11, we haven't learned anything yet? >> we have learned some things and not other things. i will tell you what i won't get into, i have all of the answers. >> we could don't have the answers. >> i think people are trying to figure out.

>> i don't know what you're talking about. you're filling your silo. i don't know what i'm talking about. [ laughter ] . there is probably a media conversation that i, that i'm not really seeing. i mean i don't think any -- i have all praise for kaitlan collins and i think there is a praiseworthy and important service that they did this and stumbled because maybe the collective people that have to cover him, as you said, we do every day, but we can't pretend that we haven't been at this, i mean he tried out birtherism 11 years ago. >> i totally agree. and all i mend, when i said the thing about kaitlan collins was to say, the platform, the debate, when we're talking about this, should you give him a platform and when i hear about platforming, what i think about will you give him a free shot, like on cnn, let him run his campaign rallies uninterrupted by commercials, free time, an hour. uninterrogated. >> all three networks did. >> this is a different thing. one of the things we can learn

from this, one of the things we can learn is, not have him on live, maybe one of the things we can learn, do these things live to tape and one of the things to learn is it should be in the context of other candidates. i don't think anybody who looks back on 2017, 2016, that period, has -- there's no one that seems it and has decided, here is the perfect policy that we now know what to do and i think your point, i'm agreeing with you, that this is a service and in the sense of everyone is struggling with it, what should the policies be, and as rev said a second ago, what are your policy, we should ignore him or confront him, those are wildly diametrically points of view. >> what i'm saying is what is the policy that you decided to do this. show me. and if you did not have a policy, then you have to assume he's doing it for his own self interest. >> let's all -- >> he had a policy, promote donald trump. >> we're in agreement. but if the policy options are ignore him, or confront him, those are diametrically

opposite. well, so what should it be? and for most news organizations, it's going to be because of the nature of what we've learned about him, and what the traditions of the business are, people want to confront him, but how far are you supposed to go. and nobody thinks ignoring him is the right thing, but in certain case, denying him things, it may be the right thing to do because he tells lies on a greater scale. i think it is a set of tricky things that everyone is trying to figure out. >> and journalist, they don't have their expeditions broadcast the world over. and i talked to a national security official saying what the world saw is not a healthy democracy. if you live in another country, you turn on the gold standard for american news, cnn, and you watch that, you were aghast. >> this is the thing. this is what makes donald trump unique. we talk a lot about how different he is. let's spell that out. we've never before, in american history, had somebody as

powerful as donald trump, a former president, who is so willing and enthusiastic about taking the democratic institutions that we have in this country and using them to destroy democracy. that is a terrifying prospect. it is not unique in the world. this is how many demagogues work. there is a lot that we can learn from places like ukraine, that have dealt with disinformation, from venezuela, all over the world, across the political spectrum. so we should maybe put our exceptionalism aside for just a moment and have some humility about that. >> that's a great point. >> and take a look at what is outside the country. >> a look behind the curtain. no one is going anywhere. when we come back, loved ones prepare to mark one year since the horrific new york grocery store mass shooting took place. many of those families are

filing a wrongful death lawsuit against social media companies for becoming a platform of hate, allowing the killer's extremist white supremacist views to exist and to grow. plus, the family of jordan neely hoping that changes will be made, and how our country deals with homelessness and mental illness in the aftermath of his fatal encounter on a new york city subway. the latest on that story. and later in the broadcast, a rare about-face, the trump family now disinviting a pair of anti-semites from speak can at a florida property. after a quick break. don't go anywhere. a property after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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the only thing i want is justice. i never imagined this. i never imagined my daughter not meeting my father. >> he was our legend. >> i mean he -- thinking about, all she did was go to the supermarket. 20 minutes. that's all. 20 minutes. 20 minutes, she was there. >> i don't even now how we're here in this country doing the same stuff. nobody should have to live like this. >> something we're supposed to do all time, right? picking up some groceries. those are the families of the horrific buffalo shooting, a press conference earlier today, announcing a lawsuit against social media platforms, arguing that they facilitated the shooter's white supremacist

radicalization. this sunday, mother's day, marks one year since a man walked into a supermarket in a predominantly black neighborhood killing ten people, wounding three more, with an assault rifle. the 144-page lawsuit from survivor latisha rogers, and three of the victims' families, was filed in new york state court on friday. the complaint names facebook, parent company meta, twitch owner amazon, google parent alphabet, which owns youtube, and snapchat, the owner of snap. as well as discord, reddit and hate-filled website 4chan. also nameed are body armor manufacturer, a firearms store, a gun accessory manufacturer, and the shooter's parents. a lawyer representing the plaintiffs, in a statement, says this, quote, this horrible crime was neither an accident nor a coincidence. but rather, the foreseeable result of social media companies' intentional decision to maximize user engagement over public safety.

joining our conversation, law professor and former clerk to sonja sotomayor, melissa murray. melissa, take us through the law on this. what are the legal arguments that the families are making about the liability of all of these companies? >> well, they're relying on pretty traditional legal rem dis, essentially arguing that everyone who is named here including those major companies, were negligent, in causing the death of their loved ones. and what's actually really interesting to me is that although they're using a very traditional form of re-dress for victims of certain kinds of negligent episodes, they're actually focusing on the platforms and the way in which their algorithms direct certain content to users, so they argue that these platforms are not just services, they're essentially products, and they're products designed to specifically be addictive to certain personalities and

talking about teenagers particularly susceptible for being groomed online for certain point of views of view and the rise of domestic terrorism on line and these platforms are essentially creating a kind of product that fills people with hate and inspires them to do these kinds of acts and they're borrowing from the tobacco litigation of the 1990s, but they're also relying on more recent litigation, like, for example, the supreme court case, the court heard just this year, that talked about international acts of terrorism, but again, suing these companies, google, alphabet, meta, on the ground, that their algorithm directs individuals to certain kinds of content that makes them more likely to commit these kinds of violent crimes. so it really is sort of traditional mode of litigation, but with a really modern twist and one that shows that there is mounting pressure on the platforms to be more responsible in their content. >> the conversation about the lawsuit is here. and this is over here. and it is much, much greater

than anything a lawsuit can avenge but it is an important step, and i know you're in contact with all of these families and heading up there. take us back to them, and how they're doing. >> i'm going up sunday, speaking at two of the churches on sunday, and some of the families will be there, i did two of the family eulogies. it is hard. how do you explain to yourself, particularly on mother's day that your mother, i did the eulogy for ms. whitfield, vice president harris was there, she won't be here this mother's day, the first mother's day they have without their loved one. whether your child, and the mother is, there or whether it was your mother, and all they did, as she said, is go to the supermarket, and this guy chose the topps supermarket because it was the only major supermarket in the black community and he knew that blacks would be there

and had from what i understand from the lawsuit, it wasn't like this guy wasn't writing things on social media that should have put a red flag up so the people who are facilitating it didn't stop him and this guy basically had a manifesto and did and akked what he said and i think it is very important in the lawsuit and there will be other actions that many of us will talk about sunday from buffalo. >> thank you for bringing this story to our attention. i mean, mara, it's not technology, it's not child pornography, but others have technologies to screen them, to alert them and do that, and it is the other side of the equation, right, the will? >> it is the will. and of course, i want to be careful because victims of, you know, child pornography have complained that their experiences have not been taken seriously by these companies either. these companies have resisted

any kind of accountability whatsoever, and even though they serve as publishing platforms, they have not been treated as such yet by the law. at the same time, i think there's another layer here of extremism, and racism, and white supremacy, and hatred and anti-semitism, simply not being taken seriously. as though it is a matter of the heart. well -- or free speech. well, nobody is saying that you can't, the plan can't march through washington, d.c. they can. that's the first amendment. you know, that's why we're here. the first amendment. right. but when you essentially promote that ideology, and you profit from it, first of all, it's disgusting, and it's wrong, and secondly, if the american system of democracy and capitalism and the courts can hold you accountable for that, god bless. because it is not right. and there should be

consequences, so i just think that these families, you know, i don't know what the legal case is, but they have every right and it reminds me in some ways, families that go after the gun manufacturers, well there are consequences, and i think a lot of times american companies want to pretend like they are blameless, and they're not. >> you know, we had the privilege of speaking with some families who lost loved ones in mass shootings, and to a person, none of them wants to be in this space, right, of activism, or seeking to hold companies accountable. but it is the failure of sort of the whole that is where some of their grief and some of their energies ends up going. and to mara's point, john, the newtown families have will a successful liability lawsuit against the gun manufacturer, do you think it is a sign of sort of new opportunities for

accountability? or just a more resounding sign that everything else is failing? >> well, i would like to say, because i think it is both. i think it is both. i think there is a dawning awareness of some of the things that mara was talking about, which is the pervasiveness and the power of the social media platforms, in our lives now, as a source of news, how much they are the global pie brain now for modern, post-modern 21st century society. and people say those words and don't really understand what they mean, until you start to encounter it around the country and like i don't watch msnbc or fox news or any of that, i don't watch local broadcasts, i don't open the newspaper, i get my news from social media, and 4chan, and those companies, to go a step further than you did,

it is not a question of it, is not a technological way they could shut it down and they're not doing that, it's that they are cranking up the knobs on hatred, anger, disinformation -- it is sticky. it's viral. it drives engagement. that's the stuff, man, that's the stuff that makes these companies go. and so they look at everything that is sticky and viral, and there's a lot of engagement and a lot of that in our world, unfortunately, where there are a lot of deeper founded divisions in our country, racism, anti-semitism, they crank those knobs up every day, not only not trying to shut it off, they're cranking it up all day in the lab for engagement, stickiness and thereby profits. as we realize how these platforms are and how much influence and how much they're doing what we just said, people will start to go after them on a lot of fronts and they will not

have to stand up, we're neutral platforms like newsstand, we just put stuff in there and it is a lie and it will be interesting to see where it all goes but there are more and more people, more and more walks of life who look and say, you guys are doing stuff that is bad. it hurt my family in some way. fascinating. >> and we didn't get to the point where tucker carlson is on any of them, but in an op-ed in "the new york times," tucker carlson is taking his talents to elon musk's twitter. i would be lying if i said i wasn't worried. with this racist claptrap, including promoting hateful conspiracy theories like the great replacement, carlson is a singularly maligned news personality, had he joined newsmax, the daily wire, rumble, one america news network, or another murkier corner, i would

look at it different by but the bird app still affords a spewing of a particular brand of hate. >> i think clearly, when we look at a rise in hate crimes, we have to look at the white house, the national action network, the national urban league, latino, the national organization, and asian americans, because hate is on the increase, it is in an uptick, so when you have these people that have these race-based, race-tingeed conspiracies, that are actually agitating and activating people, that will go out in a society, that they can buy military-style weapons, without a lot of background check and without any kind of -- i mean it is the combination that leads to buffalo. we can't separate the fact that this guy had a military-style weapon at the same time he already -- >> in texas. >> exactly. and within the synagogue, that went into -- >> el paso. >> so all of this is intersected and i think we've got to deal

with it. how many racial murders, how many mass murders do we have to see before we start dealing with this stuff? and you know, going to just memorials is not enough. we need to deal with policy and law. >> i remember when you were there with the vice president, and we were talking to you, we were covering you and i think the funerals hadn't finished yet, before uvalde happened. >> to your point. >> exactly right. >> with this world of hate and weapons of war and the epidemic we're living in and so we sort of veer, as a country, from one tragic calamity to another. >> i mean i've been actually in the pulpit, getting calls on other cases before i could speak at the funeral of this one or being in a march about it. and i think people -- people blame us, saying well, there's sharpton again. like i want to do this. i mean you know how many nights i see these people in caskets again, because of trying to comfort the famils? nobody wants to do this.

but i think that could be my kid. and if you don't fight, it might be. if you do fight, maybe you can stop them before it gets that far. >> and i think when we're talking about platforms, to tie this conversation together, this is the supreme sanctity of a platform, the piece of it that you have, and the piece of it my brain can't get around is why do you care so little about its influence and why you don't want to be a force for good. >> and what gets me, when the elected official does what is political rather than what is right. how much evidence do we need? you almost can't even name in the last month the names of the mass victims, the victims of mass murders. you can't even name them. and when i was talking about about buffalo today with people who were in elected office, oh, yeah, that did happen, because there are so many. we are normalizing these kind of racial attacks and these kind of mass murders, where even the irony now is you have people of

color that are actually running around with nazi and white supremacist emblems on, to where they are being pulled into this, and i think that we are in a rice sis, and we need to deal with it. >> melissa, is the law, the question i asked heileland, the net that is catching some of these situations, because the laws are so inept and the society isn't interested in sort of healing it self or is the law the best avenue for accountability. >> the law is sort of a static one moment in time. so at federal levels and state levels, we haven't kept up with the way the internet has grown and evolved. the app that was written in the 1990s, we're seeing questions about whether platform and unity really is something that we should be allowing given the nature of how the internet has evolved. live streaming the way it which

has really become such an integral part of our lives. which it had not been foreseen. so again, i think you have to sort of think about this. if laws are just a snapshot of one particular moment in time, the onus is on legislatures and lawmakers to continually update that. that is harder for congress, which tends to be increasingly polarized, very difficult to get anything done and maybe easier on the state level where will is not as much polarization and perhaps might be more consensus about something that needs to be done. notice the new york lawsuit is proceeding under traditional wrongful death grounds, this is not a novel suit that talks about platform liability and talking about what the traditional platforms have enjoyed. >> thank you very much for helping us make sense of it. when we come back, the man who put another human being in a fatal chokehold on a new york city subway has been arrested. where that case goes next and the conversation about how we should help communities in need. we will be right back.

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(cecily) you're looking pleased with yourself. (seth) not to brag, ♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ but i just switched to verizon. (cecily) so you got an awesome network... (seth) and when i switched, i got to choose the phone i wanted. for free. not bragging. (cecily) you're bragging. (neighbor) oh, he's bragging. (seth) who, me? never. oh, excuse me. hello, your royal highness, sir... (cecily) okay, that's a brag. (seth) hey, mom. i gotta call you back. (vo) visit your verizon store during our spring savings event and choose the phone you want, like the incredible iphone 14, on us. verizon today, danielle penny, the man who put jordan neely in a face the chokehold turned himself over to police. he is charged with second degree manslaughter. horrifically disturbing cell phone video shows him putting neely in a chokehold, he was yelling that he was hungry and didn't care that he died.

and they say he hadn't physically attacked anyone. and many new yorkers were outraged that penny had initially been allowed to go free after neely's death and police took so long to charge him. and you're speaking at the funeral this weekend. >> friday. next friday. the thing that is most disturbing about that if they're not going to charge, we're creating a real legitimizing vigilanteism. it brought me back to bernard goetz in '84. >> totally. >> this young man had a mental breakdown. had been in many ways not serviced properly by the city. he had a good family. his mother was killed. he had a relationship with his father, i'm told. his aunt. this was not some kid that --

but every time they would get help, the city and how it operate, and even they said this, it is one issue. and when i talked to edwards, the attorneys, dante mills, and these are really good lawyers, i think we're going to hear a lot from them, that are saying let's deal with the issues that created this, and then on top of that, you got this man that decides on his own, with no threat to him, or anyone in the car, that he's going to put him in a chokehold, which we made against the law for police, not civilians, and then while two people hold him, i mean what are we talking about? i think we ought to also see if a grand jury is going to do something about the two people who held him down. i think we need to investigate why the police that night that it happened did not hold neely that night, overnight. so there is a lot of questions here. but what bothers me is the

depiction of this young man and his family, his family did everything you could do. the fact is, we're letting people down that have these problems, and we're letting people go that are labeled homeless, like there's something wrong. if people have a problem, walking away from home, they're not necessarily what we call homeless. all these are issues here that i think we've got to deal with. but we also can't have vigilanteism. we cannot have it now as a precedent that mental health people therefore can be dealt with by killing them. >> i mean the rev, "the new york times" reporting on this, it requires us to be our bestselves, to hold two thoughts in our head at the same time and he wasn't, he didn't fall through the cracks, he was in the system. >> that's right. >> the system failed. he was in the system. i think he had 100 contacts with the system. they were trying to help him. the system failed. i mean so there's a systemic failure. there's a reality about how

people feel in the subway. because you're right, it is not just the guy, it is the two other people, and scrutinize that, and we can't live in a country where vigilante justice is ever acceptable. >> you know, a few things come to mind. as a new yorker, i ride the subway. no new yorker who does ride the subway has ever gone without, months without an experience in which somebody is having a mental health breakdown on the train. we're talking about the mental health of jordan neely, but my question is, what is going on with us as a a society that we would respond to someone clearly in crisis unarmed who needed help by thinking it is okay to put him in a chokehold and others help. the two other individuals, that is most heartbreaking. because initially you think

maybe you have two people having a mental breakdown. i don't know. but people have altercations. okay. but the idea that this was normalized. and the other thing, homeless or mental health problems who are homeless, drug addiction, other issues, have been dehumanized, ignored, treated with disgust. that is not only true in new york. and on a systemic level the thing that we haven't mentioned yesterday is that -- and i've looked at this and reported on this extensively. one of the reasons that the system is failing individuals like mr. neely, is the housing crisis is such that it cannot offer individual safe units of housing. apartments that are not congregate shelter settings for people who are homeless who are living on the streets.

and shelter settings aren't safe. and if you are a vulnerable person who has a mental health crisis, you won't be able to be serviced in congregate settings. >> mayor adams has done a lot that has been scrutinized the last 14 days. one of them today is making the point about monday taker to hospitalizations. >> yeah, and i honestly -- as the whole time of this conversation i really just wanted to ask you a question, rev, because i think you know mayor adams better than anybody at the table. and you have history in the city of moments like this. this is a thing where it is a discreet concrete thing that has provoked a lot of discussion and i know that you're a friend of eric adams, you may have advised him, i don't know, privately. how do you think he is handling this? this tests a mayor, especially a mayor for whom a lot of these issues have been a big part of

his public. is he rising to meet the moment right now? >> i think that yesterday when he said that we've got to deal with a mental health summit, he ought to work with these lawyers and families. i think the initial concern many of us had was it appeared that they were defending it. he says let's correct the city. but he needs to reach out to the victims. i will never forget reverend johnny green was the pastor of this young man's mother's funeral was there are we'll be. this young man broke down because of how his mother was killed. and when reverend green told me the story, he said al, you have to come and he impersonates michael jackson and i preached at michael jackson's funeral. this kid was talented and we kind of write them off. and i think just because maybe somebody has mental issues or may be in the streets because

they wouldn't go home to whatever, does not mean that they don't have a life and talent and all. and i think that the mayor has an opportunity to turn this around and use what in young man was about to potentially -- >> potential. >> and is he also going to be is he funeral? >> i have no idea. >> potential. good word. >> thank you all so much for being here. another break for us, be right back. here another break for us, be right back ♪ ...i'm over 45. ♪

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mark pomerantz former prosecutor who led the manhattan district attorney's investigation into donald trump's finances was called to capitol hill today to testify before the house judiciary committee. but of course to his opening statement obtained by nbc news, pomerantz said he wouldn't answer any questions related to his past work saying that now that grand jury has indicted former president trump, the circumstances have changed. the committee which is led by republican congressman jim jordan is investigaing how alvin bragg handled the historic indictment last month of the ex-president in a scheme to pay hush money to cover of an affair with a porn star. next hour begins after a quick break.

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a guy like this should not be anywhere near your father's thoel. he is a nazi, a nazi. an old fashioned hitler nazi. there is no minimizing that he is a nazi. and you should not be in any way associated with him. i ask the event organizer that the speaker be uninvited and they, because there is more than one, won't be allowed on our property. >> i know, but i can explain. hi again, it is 5:00 in new york. and this is about a rare pulling back from the brink of platforming two notorious anti-semites. billing of an event that is in full swing in miami, florida included until that moment two men who were known the world over for their extreme

anti-semitic comments and views for saying things like hitler was right to warn us with judaism and jews caused 9/11. but because of pushback from that guy, mccain and ward will no longer be appearing ther this is a series described as a series of far right conferences featuring prominent qanon influencers, anti-vax activists, election fraud conspiracy theorists, christian pastors, political candidates and elected officials. mckay and ward had been listed alongside speakers such as trump allies and former trump administration officials, even trump's own son eric and his

wife lar a a. alan says that eric denied knowing who they were. and media matters which has been reporting on this since february points this out, quote, eric trump and the two hitler promoting anti-semites have spoken at prior stops together. including in nashville in january. branson in november. rochester in august. and virginia beach in july. mckay wrote last year that eric trump, quote, says his dad loves what we're doing. the two have had their picture taken with eric trump. and you see the pictures right here. wow. removal of these two men from the weekend's event is an admission that maybe they shouldn't have been there in the first place, but it does beg a question. without rachel maddow drawing

attention to this, whatever that was, a broadcast or podcast, mckay and ward still be on the schedule? trump has for years and in plain sight defended right wing extremists from, quote, fine people on both sides to never taking up anyone's opportunity to deannounce everything about qanon, to having dinner at his club with known white supremacist nick in november. and that is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends -- jonathan greenblatt is back. and david jolly is here. and at the elyse mendez, and also director of the public policy program. and this is your third -- you are just joining us, but we pull

you back every day and we're glad that you are here. i want to start with you, jonathan. this is i think the second time we've called on you this week because of the proliferation of not just -- i mean, we shouldn't have to put it in relative terms, right? run-of-the-mill anti-semitism is objectionable and you should be here anytime that is being circulated. but this is apex predators of the sort of spread, anti-semitic rhetoric. and i think a lot of people are concerned that it is these kinds of individuals who say that the kinds of things that sit at that intersection of a threat for domestic violence extremism. your thoughts about what looks like an about-face on their appearance today. >> well, look, this is objectionable, it is offensive, it is outrageous. and it is all-together ordinary in trump world. right? i mean, people like michael flynn, people like roger stone,

these are the people who make that reawaken america tour whats it is. this combination of conspiracy theories, anti-vax fantasies and rank anti-semitism all the way through. and they give it a tinge of religion in order to somewhat sort of try to dignify it. and you know, in other places, in other venue, we might think that this is awful. but this is not any other venue. this is a trump venue. and it gives it and an element of legitimacy. so it is great that they are taken off the agenda, but there are so many others. and giving any legitimacy to people who are so awful, who really degrade the public conversation, we should expect more i think of our former presidents. >> and so eric trump responded to rachel maddow's program and

he said this, rachel maddow is walking a fine line. we're the most pro israel family. from the abraham accords, moves the embassy to jerusalem, to sanctioning iran, no one has done more for israel than our family. never mind that my sister, brother-in-law, niece and nephews happen to be proud jews. if she or anyone else suggests that i'm anti-semitic i will not hesitate to take legal action personally. jonathan, what does that even mean? there were two known and -- not closet anti-semites. it is their brand, it is who they are. i thought the trump family understood branding. what is this statement intended to do? >> i do think that it is fair to point out that the trumps are a paradox. yes, president trump has jewish grandchildren. a jewish daughter and

son-in-law. he does lots of things that many of us who believe in zionism and the two state solution really appreciated. the abraham accords were really consequential and yet at the same time, this is a person who said that they came with love, that the people who rampaged through the capital with camp auschwitz sweat shirts. he had dinner with kanye west and thought there were very fine people on both sides in charlottesville and who routinely elevated anti-semitic memes, welcomed extremists into the oval office and created the conditions in part where we're living today where we have more anti-semitism in terms of incidents than ever seen in 45 years. i will be clear, nicolle, like i don't think that we should be platforming any extremists. there was an event on the senate side the other night led by a u.s. congress person claiming that the state of israel is committing genocide and making

wild claims. that is offensive now. but here and now eric trump and the ex-president's supporters can't claim that you are not bringing down the presidency and make more dangerous the public at large. >> and on this question of endangering the public at large, let me show you what the former attorney general for national security said on the program yesterday. >> when these combinations are together, this is emboldening others, and i should say the combinations that are casting others as evil and immoral, that is giving license to people to engage in vigilante justice. it is dividing us in ways that putin is just sitting back loving this, so are our other international adversaries.

it inspires domestic violence that makes us weaker as a nation. >> and so you've been in your perch and watching these issues really morph. you couldn't shake republicans out of any stupor. but mary mccord says is right. this is as national security problem. anti-semitism makes every jewish school and household more dangerous, it threatens individual lives. and that is a crisis for everyone living in this country. it is also a grave national security threat that we are basically doing putin's work for him in this country with our inability to rein in and fight our own problem with anti-semitism where it

interlocks. one senator saying white nationalists, that is a trump republican. i mean, you know, we're so far over the line of who is us, that is who they say they are. what do we do when the country's national security doesn't get the likes of a mitch mcconnell or a mitt romney or a kevin mccarthy to talk to the nuts in their own caucuses and come to the table and say enough is enough, break the fever? >> yeah, i mean, you are referencing tommy tuberville's almost inexplicable comments that he tried to walk by by saying that whites supremacists are just trump supporters. i mean, that may have been a very revealing moment if you will and something of a truthful moment because there is a one for one correspondence. supremacists routinely love president trump because he enabled them, he welcomed them and he platformed them in ways that we've never seen before. and anti-semitism like

anti-black racism is not just the problem for black americans, it is my problem too as a white person. anti-semitism is not just a jewish problem, it is a nonjewish people's problem because we know throughout history it is thecame narey of the coal mine of democracy, an indication of deep dysfunction. i'll go to synagogue this weekend, and there will be armed guards in front of the doors. there will be a police car in front of the building. i mean, and to think that we have to even have a conversation about why it is necessary not to allow hitler-loving anti-semites on the agenda for a conference who is being hosted by the former president's business. i mean, we have like you said moved so far into the realm of the absurd. i think that it is as they say stranger than fiction. but the truth is while i'm in synagogue tomorrow, on sunday

they will be remembering in buffalo because it is the one year anniversary of the massacre that took place at the top supermarket where ten african-americans were killed. extreism is a deadly disease. people infused with these fever dreams of hate ultimately endanger all of us. that is why again this is not a republican issue, a democratic issue. this is an issue of right and wrong. and we need people to speak out against this kind of thing and to stop having to even have the conversations in the first place. >> if this week's political events are any indication, we'll be having these conversations for a good while. and we do our best not to separate out the targets of hate, right? i mean, it is as jonathan is perfectly describing extremism that endangers us all. if you go to protect the rights of a health care clinic that provides reproductive health care, you are a target for extremists. if you are shopping in buffalo, you are a target for extremists.

it is all of us that are at risk. >> if you are teaching black history, you are a target for good extremists. extremism has no boundaries. but you can't tell it to stop. and to jonathan's point, when you want to reproduce hates and you give it a platform and power, that is what donald trump was doing and that is what he has done and what he will continue to. and it is important to note that he is not the leader of the republican party, not trying to be the leader of the republican party. he is trying the leader of a hate group, plain and simple. and if we try to compartmentalize donald trump and separate him from all the people around him, it is so difficult to do that because in doing so, you give a runway to all of those people that will have access to him down the road. and that is why it is so very important not to be able to do that, not to separate the man from the people around that man. and it is not even a

conversation about the individual voters that voted for donald trump in the various states. it is not about that because there are some people that can explain to me that donald trump is good on this issue, not good on that. they actually may have some sense. but when you look being at as you have mentioned earlier the sort of apex predators, these are the people that have money, they have resources, they have power to spread that hate and anger across borders. political and geographic. and when you have a former first family courting these individuals, working with them, giving them that power, you embolden them in such a way that it doesn't make sense that they would be trying to lead a republican party. you can't lead politically by attrition, you lead by addition. they are not trying to bring more people in, they are frying to concentrate that power and that hates to make it more powerful.

so you need to separate him from the rest of america that is more thoughtful and that is actually working to see policies similarly. but don't separate him from the people that he stands with on a day to day basis. >> david jolly, rachel did a brilliant job monday of bringing this into focus. but with everybody here, it is in some ways more interesting, right, that durst witness rails against it. i don't think that nick sneaked in, he was invited for dinner.w

against it. i don't think that nick sneaked in, he was invited for dinner. >> i think that there is a child like behavior in this and that is ignorance. what trump has demonstrated is a level of significant nor rans that allows us to really shine a light on the danger of this moment and why this is dangerous. because understand eric trump's response. it wasn't to distance position from roger stone and mike flynn and the proud boys and oathkeepers and the alt-right white national elements. it was to say, wait a minute, we're pro jewish and we're very pro israel. he said my father's administration worked to move the embassy, he work on the an cords and therefore that makes us a friend of jewish communitys us a friend of jewish community. but that shows us in eric's mind and i believe in his father's mind as they operate in a very transactional nature that they give equity to the pro israel/pro jewish voices with

the white nationalist and anti-semitic voices. he is recognizing that the equity in both of those arguments. it is like no, you can't say i don't like the jewish community because look at whatever i did. but they will host a white nationalist rally and that essentially is the most dangerous movement that we are watching in today's republican party, giving parity and equity to these movements that otherwise had been kept at bay, donald trump has invited them under the gop banner. clearly eric fwres. agrees. >> and it is a remarkable conversation we have to have. and the reason we have to have it is whether we are talking about it or not, they are doing it. and the only reason they are not having the most heinous anti-semites there today is because the klieg light swirled on to this event.

i don't know if it is racial. they certainly weren't response and reactive to her. the fact that we have to cover it is for me made clear in the fact that they don't stop when you look away. when you look away, they do even worse stuff with worse people. >> and it is not just trump. it is now the party that operates at his best. and why you can't always draw a correct line from the things that they say to the violence that we see in our communities. it is in the ether whether you are talking about the pittsburgh synagogue where we know that the gunman was writing about not just anti-semitism but also anti-vitriol. you had someone driving to a walmart with the express purpose

of killing mexicans and mexican-americans because they had come to believe "the great replacement" theory which again connects us to buffalo. that you had another gunman who believed that white americans were being replaced by black americans. and it is not just donald trump who is out there espousing some of the beliefs whether our not they are explicit or white washed. you have an entire infrastructure that is repeating these things on demand. knowing that there are real world consequences. >> with all of their echo chambers doing the leg work for them and connecting them to anyone receptive to acting on them. jonathan, how do we get at that, not just the actors or stages and events and dates and places and times that they happen when we happen to know it, but everything that emanates from it, the whole spread. >> it is an ecosystem of intolerance and it indeed does have a kind of ugly spread.

i mean, you said before i was moved to metastasize and like a virus it has infected so many corners of our society today. number one, we need our leaders for lead. it shouldn't take much for kevin mccarthy and other major republicans including governor desantis to say not caesar not welcome in the sunshine state. that should be pretty easy. not caesar not welcome in the gop. extremists don't belong in our party. but today is a day when the gop should say that crisply and clearly. number two, the donor class and people around the elected officials should say we won't patronize and support candidates who are unable to speak out against nazis. and then number three like i think that we have to ask ourselves as a citizenry, we go

look the other way. so on this point, nicolle,you deserve praise because this should be a lead story every hour. the idea that the gop is so flirting with fascism. i'm grateful that you are talking about it. >> well, i don't know what to do when anyone gives me any compliments, so don't ever do it again. but thank you for coming back twice in one week. i just don't know what we are if we act like this is normal. and if it doesn't scare you, you are not paying attention. and i think that platforming extremism and hatred, only reason i covered cnn's decision to have trump on this week. only power is platforms and trying to use them to sign a light and maybe this is an example that rachel's coverage and other coverage can had some impact. because i think that if it has no impact, then we're really in deep you know what.

jonathan, thank you for starting us off today. and when we come back, the move by florida governor ron desantis whose name has been in vogue that is a violation of the state's constitution. how the governor is keeping the public seeing where he is going and meeting with. and plus a new chapter in florida's assault on education, dozens of social studies textbooks being banned for including lessons on george floyd, black lives matter movement and other social justices. in other words the very things that one would expect to learn about in social studies. and later, the ex-president's absurd and dangerous claim that he could easily end the war in ukraine but he didn't say out loud yet how much of the country he would

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florida governor ron desantis who is continuing his running/not running/not yet officially running whatever campaign signed a bill yesterday with very broad language that exempts his own travel records from the state's public disclosure law. blocking the people of florida from knowing whether their tax dollars are funding state business or desantis' widely expected 2024 presidential bid.

the travel includes the gop event desantis is attending tonight in illinois as well as a trip tomorrow to the key caucus state of iowa. and also all the trips he took before the he signed the bill. and it doesn't just apply to him but also the disclosure of security or transportation services that could endanger the protected person. and that protected person could include desantis' immediate family and visiting governors and their families. as well as, there is more, the state's lieutenant governor, cabinet members, leaders of the statehouse, senate and supreme court. and also this, for persons for whom such services are requested. so like anyone he asked for by the governor. or any of those other people. so basically the dog, the pudding guy. and what i don't understand and i worked for jeb bush, florida has some of the most strict

sunshine laws. and they are not partisan. jeb is a republican, but i was working there not because he needed me, but because anywhere he went, if he ran into anywhere else, it was a press event. how is that constitutional about. >> an important piece of context is that it comes on the heels of the gop led legislature clearing the way for ron desantis to be able to run for president without giving up his governorship. so the state is set that they are doing everything that they need to do to ensure that his run goes as well as possible. there is the question of where ron desantis is going, what he is doing while he is there. but the capital bureau chief pointed out something really important which is there is a mechanism by which ron desantis is going to make it clear to

floridians that taxpayer dollars are not being used for political activities. they have asked but not gotten the answer which the state of florida. he has made it part of his to s inside of florida. and he has had some measure of success with that. i think that the question is how does that then go, how does that play on the national stage. >> david jolly, the bet that these guys always make is that everything that they do to stick their finger in the eye of the press is something that republicans will like. and to be clear, there are is swathe on the right that will be happy about anything that the press doesn't like. but a lot of voters think that the decades and decades of the sunshine laws by which democratic and republican governors abided by were a good thing for the state. >> and now our family is one of

those. and also the change of law around resign to run giving him the ability to stay in office and run and now to hide his travel records. because the florida are not legislature is really a lap dog to ron desantis. he holds such an iron grip on rop politics in florida that they basically have done anything and everything that he has asked of them including the disney fight that they backed him up, the "don't say gay," book banning, you name it. so why do i bring that in? because all of these decisions truly do rest at the feet of ron desantis. and where donald trump perhaps was a vessel for a lot of the authortarianism hard rate narratives in today's gop, ron desantis is an architect of those strategies. and we see him on the start of a presidential run. he has been able to architect

the exact environment that he wants. >> and you said it so much more beautifully than i said it. i said donald trump belly flopped. and so that is why you are here. and when we come back, florida's whitewashing of public education under ron desantis takes a startling new turn. we'll tell you about the social studies textbooks rejected by the state for including lessons about black lives matter, george floyd and social justice. lives mate floyd and social justice

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reimagining public education. and in florida social studies textbook became the largest target of the republican governors whitewashing of the school materials. and it is part of his campaign against what he calls wokeness. florida says that it initially approved just 19 out of 101 books submitted for social studies classes. and it had dozens of the others edited to fit what they call, quote, florida's rigorous standards. eventually still rejecting 35 textbooks. as one example, the state's education department seemed to have a very specific problem with the mention of police brutality and racism. and at least twice completely removing mentions of the "black lives matter" movement and george floyd's death and the fact that some people take a knee during the national anthem.

there is so much wrong with this, but i'll save it for a second. you go first. >> i also read a story this conjunction with this that scholastic, the publisher, also edited or asked author of a children's book to edit some statements in the book or the description of the book because they felt that it was -- it was too much for children, the author for under that that was a bridge too far. scholastic has since apologized for that. but what it does suggest is that this conversation around culture and how the culture is taught through schools and books is having a real effect across the country. >> terrifying. >> to david's point earlier, ron desantis is the architect of the thinning about african-american contributions to america and to our history. and what is scary is that ron

desantis knows where the power within the bureaucraies lie. and in working with publishers and the college board, i won't say that anti-woke, but kotdity guying white supremacy in every level of government, in areas of the bureaucracy take we may not even know exists. but he is familiar with that. and that is what is so frightening. >> and that is where the structural damage will be done. because it used to be one election away from a terrible leader. but now an election of a democrat and democratic legislature and filling the agencies with enough people who can turn it around and make the textbooks accurately. >> and it is generational.

the textbook companies have a tremendous amount of power. we know that the college board has a tremendous amount of power. and when those institutions are bending to the will of somebody who is elected to office for relatively a short period of time, think about the damage that you do to that child that will last his or her lifetime. that is the existential problem. so one of the solutions that i would always say, you need more black teachers, more black schools and more black authors writing textbooks for young people broadly. >> but teaching what? if the books are censored, what are you teach something. >> in 1935 there was a great essay, does the negro need separate schools. and he is saying if you have black schools, black teachers, they are always deemed to be less than standard. and where the white school and white teachers seen as the standard. and both are wrong. what is true is that black kids

need good schools, period. wlfr wherever that can happen, it should still happen. but post-brown versus board of ed, you had a lot of black schools close and therefore black and brown students were at the mercy of majority white institutions. that has to change. >> i also think that this being the challenge in 2023 was something that maybe somebody predicted it, but i think that this is an unbelievably damaging generational harm because of the cynical nature of one political party. >> thank you all stop for being here. spending most of the hour with us. we are grateful. ahead for us, with a tries impeached indicted and severally liable for sexual abuse and defamation ex-president said this week about ending the war in ukraine. reaction from our dear friend after a quick break. tion from o after a quick break.

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fringe of his own party. and he declined to say how or where or whether he wanted ukraine to wins war. this is at a crucial time in ukraine's fight as people including many children continue to lose their lives. and our friend writes there is no escaping the conclusion that vladimir putin's intention is not simply to an text more territory on the western border with nato as a defensive strategy, he wants to undermine and ultimately destroy ukraine in part by going after children. as a purely humanitarian matter that cannot be allowed to happen. let's bring in our good friend who is former adviser to president zelenskyy and with me here at the table, our public health analyst, professor of pediatrics at the alberts

einstein college of medicine. what do you have on your t-shirt? >> it says town fall. my teen made it for me. she watched it and decided to protest and i became the begin guinea pig. >> and what did sophia find objectionable?begin guinea pig. >> and what did sophia find objectionable?egin guinea pig. >> and what did sophia find objectionable?gin guinea pig. >> and what did sophia find objectionable?in guinea pig. >> and what did sophia find objectionable?n guinea pig. >> and what did sophia find objectionable? guinea pig. >> and what did sophia find objectionable?guinea pig. >> and what did sophia find objectionable? >> in short everything, but i will probably respond to the war in ukraine in 24 hours comments. i can tell you this, this might shock you, but i think that president trump, former president trump, can actually end this war today. and all he needs to do is just pick up the phone and call putin and say he is not running for president. because putin is hoping that trump are run and end the war on russia's terms. >> and i think that we all know that that is not what would be

communicated, right? tragically if those two were to speak. tell me how it lands, though, to see that the specter of another american presidential election showcased with someone who is running pretty strong position in the republican party who has such a hostile view towards ukraine. >> it is absolutely terrifying on one hand. so we have missile attacks the first three days this week and then the town hall, infamous town hall happens, but it was a quiet night. and it was the most frightening night this week. and so, you know, doesn't compare to missiles and drones. but at the same time, we have been it-to-that party before. we've survived four years of his presidency, we've been blackmailed. very with resisted a pressure campaign.

>> and what does it feel like to see people applauding the views in. >> it is disgusting. people understand what is going on. we understand that, you know, a lot of americans are not like that. and when the standards are called and there is a lot of propaganda involved and unfortunately, those are effects of that propaganda. and so we are hoping that you will come to your senses and see it for what it is. >> i don't know if you saw this, but there was one instance of good and bad part of the story, only one, but there was one republican who held up trump's comments about putin and russia as a reason for not supporting him in the future. so in our politics that counts as a little bit of progress. and igor, it has been too long

since we've had you. you can widen out a little bit and tell us the status of the fighting in your country. >> at the moment there are lots of rumors going around. i can tell you that the cancer offensive as people watching tv understand it, it has not prepared yet. but a lot of preparatory events happening. an occupied city was hit with a new kind of weapon that the russians have not encountered before. a lot of panic media. they're bracing for another retreat and a good will gesture. we have to believe in our army and our guys and see what happens next. >> so far, it has been a pretty good bet to bet on your army and your country. let me read more from your absolutely heartbreaking piece. it's increasingly difficult to determine how many ukrainian

children have been killed, injured or traumatized by russia's brutality since russia invaded ukraine. in february of 2022. the latest formal reports from the u.n. agencies suggests 500 children have been killed. more than 800 severely injured as casualties of the war. as we have just learned, the reality is that that number of children murdered is likely to be far higher. we shouldn't have to be reminded of this. of course it is. of course it is. but it is reminders like this that make it so hard for me to square the political and partisan nature of how the war is treated. >> yeah. it's unconscionable that we have people in this country, especially political leaders, who don't understand this is a massive humanitarian horror story, which is why trump -- i mean, putin, sorry to confuse them. >> it happens. >> putin has been designated a

war criminal by the international criminal tribunal. he is a war criminal. to hear trump the other night say, well, i don't know, maybe i will, maybe i won't support him. this fantasy about stopping the war in 24 hours. it's a horror story, especially for people like igor and people like me who have actually been over there and see what is actually happening. really, that's just the front of the picture in a way. because behind the scenes, we have lots of children, lots of them struggling with horrendous psychological trauma. there are children now, a couple of million, as refugees in other countries. those countries are not that excited about having kids go back to ukraine. we have lots of deep problems that we are dealing with whether when we are dealing with the kids. we are worried about it. >> igor, the last word. >> look, i think children are

the future. the only way to solve this problem is to give them their lives back. there are many things we can do. give them hope. teach them to dream. provide them with opportunities. i think every university in the world, every respectable university, every boarding school, every art school should have a ukrainian scholarship. every artist, every musician, every actor should mentor ukrainian kids. it's the hope that matters. it's the ability to dream that matters. that's what russians have taken away from them. >> wow. igor, we will have to pick this conversation up. too powerful and too important. thank you so much for spending time with us today. another break. we will be right back. bring more. ♪ do more. ♪ see more. ♪

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maybe you heard of the rat pack? they hung out here all the time. so, pack a bag. or don't. you could be here in a few hours. meet me at hotels.com believe it or not, graduation season is upon us. some members of the class of 2023 will see a history making commencement address. vice president kamala harris will deliver the commencement speech at west point. she will be the first female commencement speaker in their history. joe biden is set to deliver commencement addresses to the class of 2023 at the u.s. air force academy and howard university. another break for us. we will be right back. r break fs we will be right back.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows. we are grateful. "the beat" starts right now. >> happy friday. i will see you soon. i want to welcome everyone to "the beat." after this wild week, we have a very special show tonight. we are doing something unique and different. it is not just a special report. it goes deeper. it deals with a fact that sometimes gets glossed over in our politics, which is that the republican party is not only unpopular at this point, what it stands for after the maga era has separated it from the general public, from what people want. that is actually a problem