a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone to alex witt reports. we begin with breaking news.

a new era of immigration is underway this weekend after the lifting of title 42. the biden administration putting in place new asylum rules and legal pathways as it turns the page on a pandemic era program that quickly expelled migrants. officials were bracing for an unprecedented influx of migrants, but officials say crossings appear to remain steady. -- a border town told msnbc told us how they're handling the situation. >> i'm a big leader in prevention, and -- temporary infrastructure shelters and the age of consistencies. -- migrants, however, it's been manageable till now. i've been in constant communication with border patrol and mayors from border towns, border cities, to get updates as well. >> the clock is ticking in washington for a plan to avoid defaulting on the country's death.

staff -- are meeting this weekend, trying to make progress resolving the coaches as a june 1st deadline years. earlier today, democratic -- or really told msnbc, she doesn't think speaker mccarthy is negotiating fairly. >> he's not going into ago she ate the budget as a dealing to strategy. he is going in trying to link paying our bills, our death, raising the debt ceiling to budget cuts. he's holding the american people hostage, and that's exactly what's taking place. >> former president donald trump and florida governor ron desantis holding dueling events in the first -- state of iowa today. it comes as a source familiar with the plan cells and see news that the senses it is on the verge of announcing his presidential bid and may file paperwork within the next 15 days. and the follow growing over trump's falsehood filled town hall this weekend. in a new interview is just

psaki set to air tomorrow, republican governor kristen nunes said he was embarrassed that republican voters from his state laughed and applauded when trump mocked e. jean carroll. >> the audience was absolutely filled with trump support. i wasn't surprised to hear the support, but when you're talking about a serious issue like that and laughter and mocking all that, it's completely inappropriate. without a doubt. it isn't china positive light on new hampshire, but again, understand what the audience make up. was >> a large percentage of trump supporters. >> i'd say almost all of them. >> yeah. >> -- right now, we are covering to be developing stories at this hour. nbc's julia ainsley is in el paso texas -- with the president and rehoboth beach, delaware. we're gonna go first to you julie, i know that the u.s. mexico border where we are running some new members from the first day of crossing since the expiration of title 42.

and where there is seemingly no end to this stream of adults and children lining up to enter the united states. julia is joining me from outside the sacred heart church in el paso. julia, tell me what you're seeing there today. >> well, alex, you can see migrants are still on the streets. some of them have slept inside the shelter last night, but i was out here very early this morning and the men were by and large still on the street out here because the shelters are at capacity and a lot of them are only taking in women and children. they were at capacity because of a surge that started earlier this week, when we saw migrants crossing by as many as 11,000 across the southern border in a single day. that's a record surge. when i'm told is that yesterday, the day after title 42 lifted, the numbers actually came down slightly. still, it would be considered a surge under most expectations and definitions of that word, but they're lower than what they saw earlier this week. -- [interpreter] that is because they already saw that search begin. so many people may have thought

that they should get in before title 42 lifted, not quite understanding, and also to put in place, they would've understood the biden administration would be putting in place more restrictive asylum policies after title 42 lifted. it's important to remember that at the end of the week, or the beginning of the week, rather, they were really only sending 17% of those 11,000 back into mexico under title 42. so many were coming here and being released. it wasn't as if the gates were completely closed and then they opened. it's also important to remember why migrants are coming here in the first place, and what this means for shelter operators who are trying to accommodate them. we spoke to one shelter operator yesterday when he had 100 migrants and dropped off overnight after title 42 lifted. here's what he had to say. >> currently, we simply have no space inside the building, and we're trying to avoid this whole -- situation that we've seen in the last two weeks. >> what happens in the alleys? is it safe? is it a place for people --

>> it's on a place for human habitation. the reality is the reality at this point, and that's what we saw here, but our friends at sacred heart -- throughout the streets, around the church. typically, if i've got 500 here, they're gonna have 100 -- 1000 there. the number since be about double what we're seeing here. >> when he talks about sacred heart, the church where he was seen doubled in numbers that he was experiencing, he's talking about this church right here, where i'm standing. it's important to remember that migrants are being dropped off here as well as other shelters around the city as border patrol gets overcapacity and they need to alleviate that. >> yeah. julia, i know you're getting some new networks, as soon as you get those confirmed, let us know what they are compared to pre title 42 being lifted. thank you so much for that. in just a few minutes, i will be joined by democratic congressman mark veasey of texas for more on all this, but first, just minutes ago, president biden wrapping up a strong message about the state of the country. up

this during his convention speech at howard university. let's go to nbc's allie raffa who is in deliver, with the -- just a few hours. elie, what are we hearing for the president today? >> yeah, alex, this convention speech was especially special for the president, because howard university, of course, is his vice presidents alma mater. he praised vice president kamala harris, he talked about the importance of hbcus throughout the country, and he echoes that familiar line that we first heard from him in his state of the union speech, that line, let's finish the job. sort of teasing what his agenda would look like if he is reelected to office in 2024. listen here. >> democracy on the -- reject political extremism, reject political violence. protect fundamental rights and freedoms for women to choose, for transgender children to be free. for affordable health care and

housing. stand against books being banned, black history being erased. i'm serious, think about it. to stand up for the best of us, and today i come here to howard to continue the work to redeem the soul of this nation. >> alex, this speech today, this public speech coming as we know, that there is, there are critical talks happening behind the scenes between white house and capitol hill staffers amid this looming debt ceiling crisis. we know that they are meeting behind the scenes this weekend, our inning out the details of this deal that's been hoped for ahead of this meeting, that it has been postponed and rescheduled to possibly monday or tuesday after it was supposed to happen yesterday between the president and top congressional leaders. remember, the president insisting on a clean no strings attached debt ceiling raised while republicans are demanding

those public coach in exchange for doing that. the big question thou remains is, what sort of common ground can these two parties come too ahead of this meeting coming next week and what the timeline remains to be before this looming debt ceiling deadline. remember janet yellen said that could come as soon as june 1st, when the u.s. will not be able to pay its bills anymore. we could default for the first time in history. a lot on the white house and capitol hill suffers plates, and a very short timeframe to do that. remember, the president leaves for asia for the g7 summit on wednesday. he returns with just a few days left in the month before that deadline. a lot to squeeze in. in such a short time frame, alex. >> let's hope that something can be worked out and the -- before he takes off for that g7. thank you, but allie. we have more breaking news at this hour, this video just into us from the vatican. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy meeting with pope

francis for the first time since the start of the war. the pope says the vatican launched a behind the scenes effort to end the conflict in ukraine, we're awaiting details from the sit down, we're gonna bring you any updates as we get them. it would have been impossible in one stage -- one unthinkable tragedy strikes, again and again, could something really change? something actually to change a little. i'll talk to the congressman about it next. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. it's just a new way of life for me. the always discreet pad is super comfortable.

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regard to this issue. let's get to that. you know there was a lot of concern for chaos at the border this weekend. what do you make of this relative calm thus far, at least? >> i think that the new policies that president biden has put into place, that really encourages people to apply for asylum in their own countries and neighboring countries, has made a really big difference, particularly knowing that if they don't do that, it can make it harder for their families to get in in the future. we need a more robust immigration policy here in america. but, and so republicans are willing to work with us on that, i really applaud the president for putting forward a plan that can encourage people to apply from cells of the border instead of coming to the country and applying. >> let me take a look -- what's happening in your state, because the washington post reports that texas is using some pretty aggressive tactics to arrest migrants.

do you take issue with how texas is handling this? is governor abbott getting any pushback within texas? >> i'm not surprised at any sort of tactic that governor abbott would take to dehumanize migrants instead of going by the rules that president biden has put in place. it's not a state issue, the governor doesn't need to be involved in this. the border communities in texas have asked him to do that. he's always looking to try to score points. you probably remember two weeks ago, after the tragedy in cleveland, texas, that he actually called the people that were murdered there the legal immigrants. he's always looking to score points. he says this is a very racially divisive issue. it would be better if he were to stand back and actually work again with the president and ask his own party to come up with a comprehensive immigration reform plan that

would help the texas economy grow and do better. and said, he wants to play these types of games. >> let's get into guns, there. because some republicans in the state house actually voted for a stricter gun law. that bill passed out of committee, is it and make it to the floor, but given your experience as a state representative, i are you at all encouragements encourage that texas republicans may finally start coming around to the reality of guns killing their constituents. >> no, i'm not encouraged. if you look at how the gun debate happens here in texas, like you mentioned, i was in the state legislature, there is a subsidiary of the national rifle association, and thus the texas rifle association. they are going to do everything possible to stop us from ever putting just reasonable restrictions on the state house floor. again, just raising the age should be something that's easy.

but texas, if you look at our history, we're actually going backwards when it comes to gun safety. you can actually walk into the state capital, if you have a concealed handgun license, and not go through the medical metal detectors. it's absurd. when they made that will change, i was just leaving the state house and going to congress, and all the lobbyist and the reporters -- coming through the capitol without going through the metal detectors. the lobbyist in -- just think about some of the people that we've seen that are dealing with mental issues, have a concealed handgun license that can just walk inside of the capitol. i think it's a perfect capital of how our state takes gun safety not seriously enough. i applaud, alex, those legislators that did the right thing but -- it's going to take a long time to get things done here in texas, but we do have to keep

pushing. >> we don't have a lot of time, that's the debt ceiling. -- a catastrophic death default. it is less than three weeks away now. i'm sure you're well aware of that. we just heard today that staff in the white house and congress, they're meeting all weekend. what are you hearing about where negotiations really stand and do you think a deal gets done before june 1st? >> i think a deal has to get done before june 1st. i think that what speaker mccarthy is going to do right now is the fact that he had to make a deal with the devil in order to be elected speaker and he knows that his speakership could be in jeopardy by just one single person making a motion to vacate the chair. that's why you see a lot of inflexibility. we should not even be where we are at right now, but part of the problem is is that mccarthy is listening to the most reckless, radical republicans in his conference instead of working with the president on passing a clean debt ceiling. that's what we should be trying

to do, people should not be worried about their savings, losing their jobs, but that's what they're looking at right now. we don't take action soon. >> all right, texas congressman marc -- commons right there. thank you so much, enjoy your weekend. -- a thought-provoking read in the new york times, it is called the most disturbing thing about jordan neely's killing and it's not just one thing, but many things that are very troubling about this case. that's next. that's next. trying vapes to quit smoking might feel like progress, but with 3x more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes -

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chokehold on the subway is out on bail today after surrendering to a manslaughter charge. the city got its first look at the suspect after he turned himself into the nypd and we see -- >> -- criminal charges were answer. daniel penny was arrested for killing dorlan neely. early friday morning, the 24-year-old walked into manhattan's fifth precinct. >> he did so voluntarily and with the dignity and integrity that is characteristic of his history of service to this grateful nation. >> the former marine is accused of manslaughter in the second degree. a charge carrying a maximum of 15 year sentence. then he was released on $100,000 bail. homeless and battling mental illness, nearly died after penny put him in a chokehold on the subway nearly two weeks ago. a witness said nearly got on the train and started yelling that he was hungry and ready to

die. according to penny's attorney, nearly aggressively threatened his client and other people on the train. adding that he is confident that once all the facts and circumstances surrounding this tragic incident are brought to bear, mr. penny will be fully absolved of any wrongdoing. but lawyers -- say penny is guilty, and they aren't happy with the charge. >> we disagree with the manslaughter charge, we think it should be murder because he knew it would happen. he knew he would die. >> what is the difference between the manslaughter charge and a murder charge? >> a murder charge is a specific intent crime, it means you intended to kill someone. this manslaughter charge under new york law is about recklessness. it's about the conscious disregard of unknown risk. >> penny's case will likely come down to a question of self-defense. new yorkers are split, some calling him a heartless vigilante, others say he is a hero. either way, many agree record homeless this and a mental health crisis led to tragedy on the subway. >> stephanie gosk, nbc news,

new york. >> -- joining me now charles coleman -- and descend legal analyst. welcome charles, if -- jordan nearly was killed on may for us, and it took prosecutors 11 days to charge daniel penny with a family charge of second degree manslaughter. what do you make of this timeline? >> i think the timeline, alex, speaks directly to what we're talking about in terms of this divide in new york city. you have a city where it is becoming increasingly apparent that there are a large group of haves and have-nots, and those have-nots are being relocated to second glass citizenry. what i mean by that, alex, is if you switch any of the dynamics of their guard to class or race in the situation around, and you make a white man the victim of a homeless man's actions, in this case, the arrest takes place immediately. but here, because you are talking about a victim who's a member of a marginalized group, a group of society that people like to look past and look over, it took two weeks of protests, it took two weeks of agitation

before we saw any real action from law enforcement and any real statement from public officials that were speaking to the humanity that mr. nearly deserved. >> what's the burden of proof, charles, for second degree manslaughter? >> it's going to be a little different in a case like this, because you don't have to necessarily a tablet intent. it does have to reestablish that mr. penny intended to kill mr. neely with respect to his actions. only that he acted recklessly, without any regard for the risk that he could have killed mr. neely, but that is actions brought about the death of mr. neely. alice, it's important to understand that that's not actually what is the most important thing in this case. it's really gonna come down to the self-defense -- the mr. pains attorneys will put forward, and that will really rest on the question about, was that an appropriate level of force to address whatever level of threat mr. penny articulates he was facing or believed he face when he was on the train? >> there is an online fund raiser, we had just checked the

numbers, it has been set up for pennies defense, it is now reset more than a really in dollars. what does that tell you about the public sentiment around this case? >> it tells me that we got into a space where we are more complicit and more in favor of vigilante justice than we realize. we don't necessarily process the notion that this is taking us down a very tenuous pass, and i think that other dynamic that has to be explored here is that not only does it say that real human vigilante justice -- that money that was being raised for mr. penny could easily be used to help provide people with the mental health services and support that they need. it can be used to help create opportunities for the unhoused here in new york. it could be used for a number of different purposes, such that mr. neely would have never found himself in that situation to begin with. i think that's a point people need to understand. he should not have ever been at that breaking point, but because we have been complicit to take these groups of marginalized people that

already exists at the edges of society and let them be, here we are. >> i want to read you a quick blurb here from muhammad who wrote about this in the new york times, it's a piece that called the most deserving thing about jordan neely's killings in which he writes, many people sought feelings -- and the city's failure to care for people with mental illness. others saw it as a reaction to viewers about public safety in new york. you've been expressing your thoughts on this, but in general, how do you see it? >> i see it as a situation where people don't necessarily appreciate the fact that new yorkers, in many respects, can it live many different lives in the same city. new york has turned into a place where -- a tale of two cities. and so, for a lot of people who are already -- she performers on the subway, or people who are mentally unwell on the subway or the on house on the subway, people look at those folks as the nuisance, not understanding that there are a number of --

contribute to being in these spaces. at the end of the day, alex, let's remember. nobody wants to be unhoused, nobody wants to suffer from mental illness. and so, i think that that really is an important point to understand that, while we are looking past these people, and while the air in the spaces, these are not people who would like to be here. it is a very significant marker of privilege for you to basically treat this underclass of new yorkers as if their humanity does not count. >> sad, but we'll set. thank you so much, charles coleman. let's go back to that breaking news about migrants attempting to cross the u.s. border since the expiration of title 22. back to nbc's julie ainsley joining me from el paso. i know you just confirmed these numbers, what are they and what are they telling you? thes >> yeah, it's interesting. the numbers went down after title 42 lifted earlier. earlier this week, we saw migrants crossing the border, across the southern border, by 11, 000, and now i learned that

on friday, just after title 42 lifted, there were between 70 508,000 migrants encountered by customs and border protection at the southern border. that includes a little over 7000 that crossed illegally between ports of entry, and then those who also presented themselves at ports of entry but it has the proper documentation. i think we still have to see how this goes day by day, but for now it does seem that that expected surge, at least one hasn't come yet. it's still something to watch for and i know see bp is still trying to clear migrants out and don't they don't have that over crowding problem. >> julie, it will be back with you at the top of the hour -- thank you. it may be the worst kept secret as a 2024 presidential race and may soon become official. how soon, we got some answers next on that. next on that

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high-profile republican is about to enter the presidential primary race. a source familiar with the plans tells nbc news that florida governor ron desantis is on the verge of announcing and may file paperwork in the next 15 days. nbc -- 's ensue center, iowa, where the governor is set to speak. welcome, what more are we learning about as plants? >> hey, alex, as the governor prepares to speak, here today, we have exclusive new reporting for myself and my colleagues, max tyson and john allen, that

reveals the first real trigger that will set -- taking on desantis announcements. this -- move into a new campaign office in tallahassee. why does that matter? it sets up a trigger for ftc holds on spending that require that they filed paperwork 15 days from monday, which would be the first public acknowledgment that governor desantis will be getting into the presidential race. he's here today, he is not yet a candidate, there is, however, a capsule bus just outside of here from his -- never back down, and he comes into this state for a second visit with 37 endorsements from state legislators. that is actually crucial because when it comes to -- those are individuals, alex, that are in those communities that are going to engage the voters across the statement he will need to win over his

primary. if he jumps in and goes up against the wall that is former president trump, who's been hitting him pretty hard, especially over the last couple of days. this is his second visit, and it'll be pretty different, both in terms of style, even if not necessarily in terms of substance. here we have a picnic style event, this is u.s. representative -- annual family picnic. this is going to be much more of a hand-to-hand event. he's going to make some remarks, but this is where that prize iowa retail politics comes in, that desantis skeptics have found to be a sticking point. this will be the test and an opportunity for the governor to show that he is able to do that, that he is able to engage in face to face, hand-to-hand, with that kind of real icon -- that iowa voters really expect any candidates that come into the state to try to win their vote, alex. >> okay, dasha burns, a for effort, being able to speak to the loudness of the crowd. there it would look like maybe

memorial day weekend could be coming with an announcement from rhonda santa's. we will see. thank you. happening this hour, a bit of positive news for capitol hill at the white house, and we see -- a short time ago, that staff for the president and congressional leaders are meeting today and tomorrow in hopes of resolving the debt ceiling crisis. let's go to nbc's julie, joining me now. welcome, what are you learning about this? >> this will be their fourth official meeting taking place today and tomorrow, staff for the president, and also staff are the leaders here on capitol hill, both republican and democrat, getting together to try to hammer out a deal. i'll tell you, having covered negotiations like this before, in which the sides just seems so far apart, those negotiations that take place in private between staff really tend to yield the most earnest progress, whereas a principals meeting, like we saw on tuesday with president biden, leaders jeffrey, speaker mccarthy and leader mcconnell, that tends to be a little more performative and one of messaging.

all of this points to positive signs, but it's still important to remember, as americans are watching this, we have just a couple of weeks left until that projected default deadline in which so much could good wrong. we are already seeing signs of catastrophic impacts that could happen because of the threat of a default. republicans sticking to their guns, wanting spending reforms in conjunction with the deadly ceiling hike. president biden and democratic leadership, meanwhile, saying that republicans are holding the debt limit hostage. here is what one democratic congressman, barbara lee, had to say to all evil she earlier, when asked about what motivations she thinks speaker mccarthy has done all of this. >> we don't know what kind of agreements he made, but we do know that his -- very fragile. he's going in trying to -- paying our bills, our debt, raising the debt ceiling to budget cuts, and he's holding the american people hostage. what he's trying to do is to wreak havoc on the lives of so many people in america in

exchange for him maintaining his speakership. >> now, he little detail, alex, that my colleagues -- were able to report yesterday, is that speaker mccarthy actually called president biden the sunday before they met on tuesday. that shows some positivity here, as well, a little ski principles here, the broken and the democrat trying to make a deal. they are set to meet sometime early next week, we're told. >> okay, thank you for the report. julie tsirkin. the legal implications of all those things, the former president said, at a town hall this week, some very specific reasons it may leave him in deeper trouble in a number of cases. cases. and it's only $35 a line. (vo) save big during our spring savings event, and get the disney bundle with disney+, hulu, and espn+ included. all for just $35 a line. verizon when you have chronic kidney disease. there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here.

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it's easy to love a car you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. new followed and potential legal exposure for donald trump after his most recent comments at a televised town hall. e. jean carroll is considering suing trump a third time over what she described as a vial remarks one day after jury found him liable for sexually abusing and defaming her and ordering him to pay carroll $5 million. >> i never met this woman, i never saw this woman. what kind of a woman needs somebody and brings him up and within minutes, your playing hanky pen in a dressy room? i have no idea who the heck, she's a whack job. >> mister president. >> they heard it, joining me now rebecca roiphe, for manhattan -- now professor at new york law

school. welcome back to the show. rebecca, can a third lawsuit give currently final word on this? >> it could certainly give her another word on this. he could, of course, continue to repeat the story over and over again. one of the hurdles that she would have to meet, in bringing an additional lawsuit, is proving additional damages. she was awarded $5 million for the damage to her reputation, if she brought another suit, she would have to say there is renewed efforts that brought new harm to her, which might be difficult to prove. >> yeah, that, but also you think that maybe she's not able to get past the harm that's been done with the continuation. i wonder if there's a legal clause for that. can carol prevent trump from mocking and really cooling here on the campaign trail for the next year plus, for that could be considered some kind of protective free speech? >> she can prevent him from defaming her. that is exactly what she did

with this lawsuit. there is a limit to free speech, and one of those limits's defamation. of course, there is broad range, especially for candidates involved in political speech, but there is a line that you can't cross, and that's a defamation. >> so, there are new questions out there being raised about whether trump's comments on the phone call that he made to georgia secretary of state in january 2021 can actually help fulton county investigators. let's take a listen to part of that. >> if this -- i question the election. -- i didn't ask him to find anything. >> we heard the audiotape, mister president. there's an audio you asking him to give her $11,000. >> i told you to hold votes because the election was rigged. the election was rigged. this was a call that was made to call a question the results of election. >> anything you heard, there anything he said that could be helpful to prosecutors?

>> what's helpful is that by speaking publicly on this and doubling down on what he always said about the story, that this was a perfect phone call, he essentially precludes his attorneys from later raising some other kind of defense. he has, now, stated quite clearly, here and elsewhere, that he was entitled to do what he did. now, that is one possible way of viewing this call, but if any wellness has a different way and a different legal theory, he no longer has the leeway to make other claims. >> then there is the stuff that he said about classified documents at mar-a-lago after his lawyers told congress that the documents got their pay accidents. listen to what he said. >> the presidential -- vice acquitted took, and i guess he classified. i had every right to do it, i didn't make a secret of it. did >> you ever show those classified documents to anyone? >> not really, i would has a

right to. by the way, they were declassified after -- >> -- >> not that i can think of, i can just tell you. i had the absolute right to do anything i want with them. i have the right. >> what are his lawyers doing with that, because can this be considered an admission that he knowingly took classified government documents? >> it is absolutely an admission and that can be used by the prosecutors. now, again, what he's doing here is he is backing his defense attorneys into a corner. -- when an investigation is ongoing and an indictment is possible, is to wait and see, to develop the best offense as the facts develop and it becomes clear what the government knows. but because their client is out there making his claims, they are -- from bringing a defense that's inconsistent. rick looted, loosely, but it would be very hard for them to -- inconsistent with those

statements. it wouldn't be particularly persuasive. >> okay, absolutely sunning, all of this. rebecca, thank you for going through with us, appreciate it. meantime, kari lake me -- footnotes to the 2022 election. what she did this week to make democrats grow and what -- about motherhood and guns. t motherhood and guns. ♪ ♪ ♪♪

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weekend, failed republican arizona, kari lake met with multiple republican senators this week as she weighs the senate bid for the seat held by kyrsten sinema. axios reports of lake was still not conceded the arizona governor's race, met with these six senators, including steve gains, who heads of the senate gop campaign -- joining me now is alencia johnson, political strategist, former senior adviser for president biden's 2020 campaign, and chief impact officer of the ten 63 west fraud. also ashley proud of, it's political strategist and former republican. good to see you both, welcome. -- senator kari lake, how seriously should we take this possibility, and how does she benefit by not acknowledging that she lost the -- race, because everybody else has. >> the only way she benefits from that, which again, i find it shocking that she seriously is considering a senate bid while also not conceding that

race that she lost nearly a year ago or more now. how does she benefit? the question there, i'm not really sure other than she was trump supporters and i think in arizona, she also benefits from the fact that there is now a split race between and gallego running as a democrat and kirsten sinema running as an independent. they can all had this race to kari lake if she was to get in the race, and i think that's what makes it appealing to her. a fractured democratic party only hands the silver to the republicans. the bottom line, arizona is a swing state for the senate majority in 2024. >> actually, is it more stunning to you that she is considering a senate race or that the six republican senators or meeting with her? >> well, i think they're going to do anything to try to maintain whatever hold they think they have on the trump base. i think they know, at this point, by her hitching her wagon with him, that's exactly what they get was kari lake.

so get something who will be a voice box for the trump supporters, and right now that's what they're all trying to cater to in 2024. >> as mentioned -- has already announced that he's not running for the democratic anonymization -- hasn't yet said is she seeking reelection, but if they will end up on the ticket, she brought this up, do you get concerned that is supposed to democratic vote? >> look, i think that's a very real concern, among any voters, along a strategists. the reality is, i think i go was running a great campaign and talking about the issues that really matter to american people. particularly people in arizona. i think what we'll continue to see in this election, the 2024, the national democratic party and the party leaders are going to be invested in arizona, as ashley said, it's a swing state. they're going to be a lot of issues that, there is an ability to draw a contrast between whoever gets the

democratic nomination and whoever gets the republican nomination. look, i think we have to wait and see how voters are going to respond to both of them being in the race, kyrsten sinema and gallego. the reality is, he's showing that he's governing for arizona voters in ways like, he just introduced legislation to help teachers address burnouts. we have a teacher shortage. he is literally doing work, the retail politics, and i think he's hoping that that will draw a stark contrast and draw people to him. >> let's take a listen to what kari lake said this week about gun control in america. >> there are millions, tens of millions of gun owners in america who wouldn't dream of doing a mass shooting. their legal, they own their guns legally, but we have a second amendment. it's not safe to walk down these democrat-controlled cities. the murder, you raved and murder on the subway. i'll tell you what, let me tell

you what -- on that's of, i am a much better mother that i have firearms and can protect my family, and it will protect my family. >> while, she's a much better mother that she has firearms. do comments like this diminish any hope that republicans will come to the table on gun control? i'm gonna ask both of you that. >> it is so unfortunate that every time a republican has asked a question about gun controls, a point to democratic -controlled states as if there aren't these mass shootings that continue to happen in red states. as soon as people asked them about gun control, there is very true that shows, if we do something as simple as bent assault weapons, mass shootings significantly decline in this country. it's positions like this that i think, it might work with the trump base in order to secure a nomination for whatever audits office she decides to run for, but a general election, this is

a top issue for a lot of voters, particularly young voters who are now becoming the majority of voters in this country. republicans are not seen as a leader -- the reality that gun violence is the number one killer now for children in this country. it is something that is ravaging communities of color, and that is not -- it's happening in a lot of red areas in this country, and their thoughts and prayers are literally the last thing that people need. they need to work on what they talk about. >> actually, don't wait on this too? >> i think what's unfortunate is that on this mother's day weekend, there were mothers all across this country without their children because of gun violence. so, when she says she's a much better mother because she owns fire arms, there are people without their children because -- this mother's day, because of policies that are reckless. when i think a lot of moms would be supportive of universal background checks, which is something i think both democrats and republicans could get behind to make our schools

and our countries safer for our children. as a new measure, this mother's day, this is something that deeply concerns me for my children and for the future of this country. comments like this that are made flippantly are made to energize the republican base, but quite honestly they should be disgusting and condemned for that. >> well, i did not know you are new mother, and let me just say congratulations on that. you are in for the right of your life. it is the best thing ever. i hope both my kids are listening right now, frankly. but anyway, there is that. all right, ladies, both of you, thank you so much. i appreciate your time on this. meantime, in just a moment, the man who could complicate the republican -- for donald trump in 2024, that is next. that is next. as i bet you all of the good day from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome everyone to alex witt reports. we begin with breaking, news just a short time ago president biden updated journalists on the state of debt ceiling

talks. the president saying there are bill talks taking place and some progress. the deadline for