situation in texas and california. and charges in the chokehold death of a homeless man on a new york city subway, the family of jordan neely says it's not enough. i'll talk to the reverend al sharpton as he prepares to eulogize him this week. all that, plus a disturbing case in idaho. >> did you ever tell you if j.j. was taken over, possessed, by an evil spirit? >> yes. >> a verdict in the trial of a woman known as the doomsday cult mom. that story later this hour. call it coincidence, worlds colliding, or some careful political calculating. former president trump, and florida governor ron desantis, both happen to be and iowa today. desantis is the only other republican anywhere close to trump in the latest nbc news poll. nbc news is learning, exclusively, the desantis political operation is set to move into a new base of operations monday. the move will require

disclosure to be -- which would be the first public acknowledgment that he's running for president. nbc's vaughn -- is in des moines, or trump ahold a campaign rally tonight. vaughn, trump, anyone's team, are they saying anything about this new development that desantis is looking increasingly poised to jump in? >> look, it's no coincidence that donald trump is here in iowa. rhonda santas was the first one scheduled to be here. sort of ensue see the end cedar rapids. guess who decide to hold one of his traditional maga rallies, donald trump. here in the heart of des moines, in the center of the state here. donald trump released a video just yesterday, in which he made the case that ron desantis has a personality problem. of course, donald trump has made it clear, he will do it overtakes to win this republican nomination. and that starts right here in iowa, lindsey. >> vaughn, trump paced both good and bad news in our latest poll which came after he was charged and arraigned in new york for the alleged hush money payments to stormy daniels. two out of three republican

primary voters feel the various trump investigations are politically motivated. and that they must stand behind him. more than half of those surveyed are only willing to put their loyalty with the party, not trump. so, from your conversation with trump's supporters in iowa, today seem fully committed to him, or what they consider desantis or anyone else? >> right, there's a great segment of this iowa electorate, republican electorate here, that are die hard. still wondered about thousand already here today in des moines. we are expecting a tense thunderstorms, there's actually an active tornado watch you hear underway, and i want to let you hear from a few of the folks that we talked to here just in last few minutes. take a listen. >> there's nobody else out there that can do what he's proving that he's already done. >> trump is the only one for me. i drove for half hours here just to see him. i love rhonda santas. because i've housed in florida. i think he's a great governor, it's not his time. >> i do wish trump would not

bad-mouth his fellow republicans. and i think he's desantis is very capable. i think he's a perfect possibility for a 2028. >> this is what rhonda scent is another candidates are up against, lindsey. you go back to 2016, ted cruz gave donald trump a run for his money here and won the caucus. largely because he went to all 99 counties, he worked hard going town to town, meeting folks and shaking hands, of course, that's not exactly the way donald trump doesn't here. the question is, eight years later, can anybody, even with that side of politics, crack in the league that your currently has? >> another quick question, first of all, you said there's an active tornado watch, is there any possibility that this whole thing will be canceled? >> i've been told, onto percent, he is coming. of course, we'll see whether they allow his plane to take off or not, here in the meantime, we have seen him hold

rallies in rainy conditions in the past, we should expect no differing here tonight. >> okay, vaughn, trump's favor ability and iowa has gone down, 11 points in a year and a half. well his unfavorable's have more than doubled. how much do you expect we will hear trump go after desantis tonight? >> right, the hard part for ron desantis, and four other candidates like nikki haley and potentially tim scott, they are still quite unknown to a large part of the republican electorate. what donald trump intends to do here, try to frame and make a story of who rhonda sanchez is before desantis is even able to fully introduce himself to the republican electorate. that's why you've seen him ahead on passed votes in congress on social security, and medicare. donald trump is trying to call into question his personality, we saw this play out as it clear that republican field eight years ago. he's already putting that into action now here. for ron desantis, nobody should be naive or, talk about next february, the iowa caucus. yes, it may seem like there's a

great long ways to go, it's been 28 months since donald trump left the white house here. he's a hunter sent name recognition, we're seeing 80% favorability ratings. that is still pretty darn good, if you're a candidate in republican primary field right now, lindsey. >> vaughn, thank you. turning now to the border, where border crossings remain elevated. new numbers show border crossings show went down after title 42 is lifted. but shelters and border patrol facilities remain overwhelmed. nbc correspondent read jackson is in el paso, texas. brie, it's good to see, what are you seeing. what did these numbers tell us. >> good afternoon, lindsey. so far today, we haven't seen much action here, standing along the southern border at gate 42, i'm told that this is one of the key areas where migrants crossing from mexico here to el paso. so far, what we're seeing, ever since friday, we're told that 8000 undocumented migrants crossed over the southern border.

that's down from the previous three days leading in to the end of title -- 42. the numbers there were closer to 10,000 or more, but here in el paso, they haven't been seeing a steady stream of migrants coming through over the past couple of months. i'm told that more than 6000 remain in custody of border patrol custody. and border patrol has been working with migrants to help them through the legal process of filing their paperwork to seek asylum. under title eight, which now replaces title 42, it is expected to take longer for that process to go through. in order to get the goal here, in el paso, officials say, they hope to get migrants to their next destination within 24 to 72 hours. in the meantime, the city is working to help to accommodate the migrants that have crossed over the border, one thing they've done, they've turned local middle school into a shelter, right now, we're told

they're mainly policing families, they're about 150 people at last check, we're, told where there, mostly families, and then they're keeping single men and women in hotels. the shelters in this area have been filled to capacity for the past several months as the city has prepared for the end of title 42 the mayor says that he knew this day was coming his prepared the forehand declaring that state of emergency earlier this month, so the mayor says that this is just the beginning, the end of title 42 is just the beginning. they are expecting to see more migrants come through the area in the coming days. so far, it's been quiet here. i spoke with one official, not that long ago, he tells me one of the key concerns that border patrol does have in the coming days and months as this continues is making sure, try to make sure, that migrants are not evading arrest. some of the efforts that border cities are undergoing as more migrants cross. flimsy? >> brie jackson, thank you. right now in israel, we're

following breaking news, that a cease fire has been reached between israeli forces and militants in the gaza strip. the agreement was brokered by officials from egypt. it comes after five days of violent clashes and a cease-fire just went into effect a moment ago. i want to bring in evan c.'s refs inches in tel aviv. raf, what's the latest on the ground? >> lindsey, one u.s. official, one israeli official, telling nbc news, a cease-fire agreement has been reached, brokered by egypt, it's around eight minutes past 10:00 here, they say, the cease-fire deal went into effect at 10:00. i can tell you, it has been quiet for these last eight minutes. for the hour leading up to the cease-fire, it has been anything but. here in tel aviv, we could hear the thump and thud of israel's iron dome interceptor missiles as they were shooting down last-minute rockets fired from gaza. lindsey, at 9:59 pm, literally, 60 seconds before the cease-fire was going into effect, we got an alert from

the israeli military saying, they were hit in a series of islamic jihad targets inside gaza, getting those last strikes in before the cease-fire went into a tougher act. that is not out of the ordinary, that's something we've seen, both sides trying to get a few final shots in, and inflict a little bit more damage before these deals go into effect. we do not know the exact terms of the cease-fire, we know that islamic jihad had been pushing for israel to commit to an end, to assassinating leaders from the palestinian militant group, your member, lindsey, this operation began on tuesday, with israel striking in the early hours of the morning, killing three senior islamic jihad commanders. also, killing a number of their family members, including small children. a total of 33 people appeared to have been killed in gaza over the last days of fighting. both civilians and militants.

yesterday, an elderly israeli woman was killed in a rocket attack, a gaza and work, or who had permission to leave gaza, to work inside israel, was killed earlier today, by a rocket fired from gaza. the bloodshed has continued here, right up until the last moments, but at this hour, the skies are quiet, we will see whether the cease-fire holds, and whether it brings an end to these five days of fighting. lindsey? >> rough sanchez, thank you. we are back in 60 seconds, with the latest on the marine veteran now charged in the chokehold death of a homeless man on a new york city subway. reverend al sharpton will give the eulogy next week for jordan nearly. he joins me next to talk about the case, and much more. ch more. (dog barking) we love our pets. but we don't always love their hair. which is why we made bounce pet hair and lint guard with three times the pet hair fighting ingredients. just one sheet helps remove pet hair from your clothes! looking good starts in the dryer with bounce pet.

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starting the new york city subway, train the man who were seen on video doing it as been arraigned. daniel penny surrendered to face a second degree manslaughter charge, in manhattan criminal court yesterday. do not enter a plea, the grand jury will now convened to determine an indictment, he was released after posting. bill his next court appearance is july 17th. here's what jordan ilyse family attorney said about the charge. >> daniel penny chose intentionally chose a technique to use that is designed to cut

off air. that's what he chose. so, we believe, that the conviction should be for murder, that's intentional. joining me now, national action that were found in houston politics nation, riverdale sharp, to read, you've been asked to eulogize jordan healy and it's futile next friday. how is his family doing? how did they feel about this manslaughter church? >> well, i think the lawyer, said it right. it is felt that it was intentional. because even if you're go by the moments that he held them, he, at some point, felt his body limp, there were others holding him down, that i feel odd to also face the grand jury. and at what point are you holding someone to go limp they're defenseless, they're unarmed, they never assaulted anyone. at what point does it become intentional. so, this is a first step, we

still have a lot of questions in the community about why this man was not held, the night he did it, but clearly, now that it is in the process, we're gonna continue to stand with his family. and attorney edwards as well. as the co-counsel, dante mills, in fighting for justice for his family. i think you'll see at the funeral, he did have a family. a loving family. the system that he was in and out of because he had mental health issues failed to follow up and do what they should have done. i think, as even the man said, there needs to really be a look at what goes on, what goes -- those that are mentally challenged, homeless, in the city. all have to conclude, this young man should not have been dead and he was dead because the man used illegal chokehold and wouldn't let n rather, florida governor ron

desantis weighed in on this case on twitter saying, in part, we stand with good samaritans like daniel penny. let's show this marine america has got his back. what is your reaction to that? >> i think that it is supporting and trying to legitimatize vigilante-ism. this man had no right to do know right -- he felt that -- he is not a policeman. he is not an officer of the transit system. how did you take it on i'm solve to take it off himself to put him in a chokehold. how easy -- it's not even facing you. and for desantis to interject in,, it gives legitimacy to vigilantism. do we want to live in a nation or a city where people can take the law in their own hands and kill somebody? >> rev, i want to switch gears

here just ahead of the one year anniversary of the top supermarket massacre in buffalo. the families of the victims are suing. they are suing online platforms, body armor manufacturer, the parents of the murderer among others. when it comes to online platforms they argue that they helped radicalize the shooter. and you will be in buffalo tomorrow. how are the families of the victims doing one year later? and what do they hope to accomplish with this lawsuit? >> it's a sad day, i did eulogies that two of the funerals. this is mother's day. and this is the first mother's day that these families go without their children, not having a mother there. and the life. it is a sad tragic day. and i think that people have to be held accountable. not just the shooter. this man was able to get a military style weapon, drive 200 miles, go to buffalo to the

supermarket which was the only major supermarket in the black community in buffalo. and just kill people because they were black. all kinds of people must be brought into this to be held accountable. the social media pages that he wrote on. the people around this young man. all red flags that should have been dealt with. and that is -- i will be speaking to churches tomorrow, reverend -- and then reverend chapman at st. john's. on mother's day, this city of buffalo must relive a year later what happened and stay determined to get justice and to bring all that are involved into accountability. >> raphael still went to ask you about senator tommy -- claiming this week that white nationalists serving in the military has been wrongly

labeled by the biden administration. he says he calls them americans. here is what he told our own julie circuit when he was asked to clarify his comments. >> what is a white nationalist? >> someone who operates nazism. someone who doesn't believe the black and brown people. equals >> you think a white nationalist is a nazi? >> well that is one of their beliefs. >> well, i don't look at it like that. >> how do you look at it? >> i look at a white nationalist as a trump republican. that's what we're called all the time. a maga person, and that's what -- >> do you agree with that characterization? >> i agree that we should not be characterizing trump supporters as white nationalists. >> what do you make of his comments? >> well i think that it is very telling for him to embrace that maga republicans, trump followers, white nationalists. even when he stole that white nationalism is defined by the general public to be those that are supremacists and those that

have not to like tendencies. each playing a word game. you can't play were game with racism and white supremacy. for him to try and rationalize that is very telling and frankly, here you have a man in the united states senate that feels that people that have entrenched biased views should be able to serve this country. >> reverend al sharpton, thank you for your time. tomorrow at 5 pm on politicsnation near governor kathy hochul joins the rev to discuss the one year anniversary of the tops supermarket mass shooting in buffalo. watch politicsnation with reverend al sharpton today and every weekend at 5 pm eastern. only on msnbc. still ahead, more developments from the southern border as title 42 is lifted. including what lawmakers on the hill could do to aid the influx of migrants. democratic congressman and chair of the new a democratic coalition task force on immigration and border security greg stan joins me on this for his calls for bipartisan

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george santos was charged with 13 felony counts by federal prosecutors in new york. most of which involve allegations of financial fraud. he is also admitting to a long list of well-documented lies, and fabrications about his personal life and career background. ranging from everything from his religious and ethnic background to his work and volunteer experience. i want to bring in grand lawley, a reporter for the north shore leader. a local news outlet covering santos's district on long island. so thank you for being with us here. your publication broke the story on centers before anyone else. before he was even elected back in october. what are you hearing from

people now that he has been charged? >> well it is only the beginning. what he was charged with his only a fraction of the crimes that he has committed and that are already clear and where criminal complaints have already been filed. the biggest of that and none of it was any indictment this week. the hundreds of campaign finance fraud acts that he committed. lying about donors, lying about loans. i mean? just two weeks ago he filed an amended campaign financial report which made $685,000 in what we had suspected were fake loans disappearing. essentially he is admitting that he lied about $680,000 in fake loans from march of 2022. every one of those lies and there are hundreds of them in this campaign finance report, but every single one is a felony. each one is potentially

punishable by five years in federal prison. >> a new audio leaked this week, first covered by my colleague already melber showing the disturbing way in which santos refers to jewish people let's listen. >> if you sit in a room with a lot of juice, your -- it's funny when the-ism start coming out. oh, he's such a mensch, he's such a mensch. and they go out -- it's really bad, but anyway. >> i, mean this is for somebody who has falsely claimed to have jewish heritage, said he was jewish and then later backed it up and that he was jewish, whatever that means. new york's third district is more than 30% jewish and is home to the second highest percentage of jews than any other congressional district. have you heard any other congressional reaction to that so far? >> people are disgusted and they've been disgusted. he deliberately fabricated a story that he was jewish and then amplified that story to

claim that his grandparents were holocaust survivors. none of which was true. he did it for the most cynical and nasty reasons, to be able to approach people who were jewish and try to extract money from those people. people are disgusted. i mean, this last november he was parading around minnora lighting in port, washington, and other parts of this district. crying about his family who he claimed were lost in the holocaust. i mean, he is a sociopath. he is a nasty guy. the sooner that we are done with him, the better. >> santos is clear that he won't resign. he is still running for reelection. does he have any support in the district left? >> zero. at this point? there is nobody in the republican party, no democrats supporting him. there is no one. he has a few people on his staff whom he is paying it other than that? nobody supports him. >> grant law lead, thank you for your time.

coming up we are live in california with more on the end of title 42 and the situation at the southern border right now. and i will talk to arizona congressman greg stan who's also the former mayor of phoenix. he is looking for an immigration solution that would bring together democrats and republicans. that's next. was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. ♪ today, my friend you did it, you did it, you did it... ♪ centrum silver is now clinically shown to support cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say, ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. staaaaacccceeeyyy! i'm the sizzle in this promposal. and tonight, sparks are gonna fly. kyle? and while romeo over here is trying to look cool, things are about to heat up.

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is just a start for the thousands seeking a better life. nbc's -- is at the airport and san diego where many people are continuing their journey. what are you hearing? >> lindsey, i have been speaking to migrants that arrive at the airport, these are asylum seekers that have been processed by customs and border patrol. and then they have gone to shelters, many of them, to then arrive at the airport hours later and fly to their sponsors. most of the asylum seekers i have spoken to here know someone in the u.s. who has helped them purchase that plane ticket. a lot of them tell me they were flying to new york, some saying they are going to new jersey, others to brooklyn where they had a sponsor that would help them, they had a place to stay and individuals from columbia, from ecuador, who said they were fleeing violence. some had been threatened by criminal organizations. a woman who said she had a business in a war criminal organization. was exporting her for money. these are the cases that we hear. now, what we have seen with

this large influence at the border is customs and border protection releasing more migrants over to shelters. and it is the shelters that have coordination to come to the airport. now there's a few things that have been happening yesterday and today that lead us to think that the shelters could be overwhelmed. and that is the fact that they are bringing large numbers of migrants to take these flights, very large groups that are sometimes confused as they cross to go to the gate. some will have to migrate at the airport. six, seven hours. maybe even longer. and then they don't have food. they don't have money. all they have is that plane ticket. they are doing their best to bring into the airport so that they can get to those sponsors. but it has been quite difficult. that is the last leg of many of them for the long journey. i also got to speak to a migrant, lindsey, who described what it was like two -- i had been told by border officials, by border patrol agents that they were at capacity. and the migrant told me the same thing.

she said it was cold, she said people were struck leaping on the floor. and they were crammed into small spaces as they were waiting to be processed. many of those that arrived here today said they were at a processing center two days ago. others told me they were at a processing center just hours ago. and they went to a shelter and then were brought here. now one other thing i would like to talk about, lindsey, is when we discuss these numbers, the number of migrants arriving at the u.s., these numbers come to us from border patrol. and they are referring to individuals that arrive to the u.s.. not through ports of entry but to the border wall, right? they arrive in then they turn themselves in to border patrol to seek asylum. and others have also crossed into the u.s. illegally and made their way to the country and have been apprehended by border patrol. so we have to keep in mind that these numbers include all those migrants. many of which arrive at the border and wait for border patrol to then seek asylum. moving forward, of course, secretary mayorkas has said

that that will not be allowed. migrants must go to a port of entry and have unemployment made through the app to request asylum that way, lindsey. >> one man i guess, thank you. >> i want to now bring in arizona representative greg stanton. chair of the new democrat coalitions task force on immigration and border security. so congressman, thank you for being with us. your coalition sent a letter to both speaker mccarthy and minority leader -- calling for meaningful bipartisan action at the border. slamming the bill passed by house republicans. the letter says an orderly humane migration process and a secure border can and should go hand and hand. why, congressman, is the gop bill so hurtful in your view? and what we'll changes do you think both sides would agree to? >> well i don't think the bill that we vote on this past week was a real serious effort to deal with the challenges at the border. it was mostly a messaging bill. mostly played to the republican base. a serious bill would deal with both border security and with

immigration reform. and would allow for greater trade with mexico and arizona. of course, mexico is our number one trading partner. any serious proposal on dealing with the challenges that we have today, vis-à-vis the border and immigration will include both a bill that we saw this past week and it would eliminate aid for some of the faith-based and nonprofit organizations that are helping people seek asylum in the united states for america. this would be the exact wrong time to limit eliminate aid to people making that journey -- provide more support, that's one of my vague critiques of the administration. i don't feel they are fully ready for this moment because you are gonna see increasing numbers. we have not provided the support for the community based organizations, the faith-based organizations that are helping people who are seeking asylum in the united states. >> so, congressman, what do you think the administration should have done if they feel they properly should pair for the end of title 42, and what do you think of the presidents

immigration bill that one of your colleagues reintroduced this week? >> well, look, i have spoken to the mayor of tucson and the mayor of phoenix. i am the former mayor of -- -- i have a lot of good relationships with the mayors in arizona and throughout the country. i've also spoken with some of the nonprofit leaders that are working at the border. and they feel like they have not enough shelter beds, for example. -- the major shelter in tucson helping some of the people seeking asylum. they are already oversubscribed. there is concerns about what are the plans for transportation beyond doing drop offs at major airports across the desert southwest. do we have enough support for people who have -- temporarily before we've moved on in the journey. what is the overall plan? there has not been a lot of coordination. there is not been nearly enough communication as we have come to the end of title 42. i think it is fair to say that there is a lot of frustration

along those leaders at the border. both elected officials and community based organizations. >> congressman, before we let you, go i want to ask you about the debt ceiling. the meeting between president biden and mccarthy was pro stoned. but staff is still continuing to meet and talk this weekend. they're reportedly discussing ways to limit federal spending. how confident do you feel that they will come to an agreement to avoid default? and what would you and your fellow democrats agree to? >> first off, it is still bearing to be said that it is shocking that there are people in the united states congress that are willing to risk default united states to default on its payments in order to accomplish their policy goals. are you really willing to threaten default and catastrophic impacts that it would have on the american economy the massive increase of unemployment. the massive increase in interest rates. what it would do to markets overall. and what it would do for the united states who is competing with china around the globe

now. nobody would like americans to default on their debt more than china. it is shocking that we have people that are willing to risk the full faith and credit of the united states to incur these kind of threats, cuts to border patrol, it is tragically ironic that the same way that they passed the border bill substantively trying to increase border security they are passing fiscal policy as it relates to the proposal that goes in the exact opposite direction that would significantly ratchet back support for global security. so right now, i am nervous, i'm concerned, we should deal with these tough budget issues during a normal budget crisis, but not threatened. not threaten the united states economy, jobs for people that are watching. it is your job that it is that risk because of the strategy. it is not the way to govern here in united states of america. >> all, right congressman, we have to leave it there, thank you for your time. >> thank you so much. >> in, europe ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy

making a rare international trip arriving in rome earlier today to meet with probe francis as well as other top italian leaders. this is his first visit to the country since the war began. joining us from kyiv now is nbc's alison barber. alison, one of the key takeaways from the meeting with the pope. we know he has been vocal in urging an end to the war? >> hey, lindsey, yeah, president zelenskyy has met with pope francis in the past, but this is the first time the two have met since the start of the full scale invasion. the vatican says the talks they had today were cordial, they focused on the war in ukraine. the need for humanitarian assistance and also the vatican's desire to see peace. for his, part vladimir zelenskyy says he called on the vatican to join ukraine's efforts to try to recurrent -- russia or russian occupied territories. he also said he asked pope francis to condemn russian crimes in ukraine and to support ukraine's ten point peace plan. a planned moscow has flatly

rejected, adding, this quote, since the war is on the territory of ukraine, the peace plan can only be ukrainian. pope francis has commented on the war in ukraine quite frequently in the past. something that is a bit unusual for the leader of the catholic church. he has talked about praying for peace, talked about wanting to see peace. but one thing ukrainians will often point out is that he has not explicitly condemned progression president vladimir putin. there was some talk of the vatican perhaps being involved in what was described as a secret mission for peace. it came about because pope francis talked about it when he was returning from a trip in hungary. he told reporters that were on the plane with him that the vatican was involved in a mission to try to deal with war in the ukraine. to try and establish some sort of peace. but he says that he would only talk about it when she became public and it was not public at the time. when he said that, that was a surprise to ukrainian officials. it also appeared to be a

surprise to russian officials with high-ranking leaders in both countries saying they were not involved in whatever this quote unquote seand saying theyo knowledge of what was being discussed at that time. but again, today, both ukraine as well as the vatican saying that the talks they had were productive. and the vatican's word, cordial, lindsey? >> okay, alison barber, appreciate that update, thank you. up next donald trump's own words from his own town halls, could come back to haunt him in a big way legally, we will look at the new jeopardy he may have put himself in. a verdict in a chilling written case involving an idaho woman who has become known as the doomsday cult mom. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later i still smell fresh. secret works. ohhh yesss.

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i had the right. >> i want to bring in my legal panel, charles coleman, civil rights attorney, and carol lynn, former federal prosecutor. both legal analysts here at msnbc. carles, first to you, those particular comments, how do those increase his vulnerability legally speaking? >> lindsey, they don't help them in any way, shape, or form. i think they are going to ultimately influence or encourage rather jack smith to continue to do the job that he is doing with respect to this mar-a-lago case. i don't know that they will be comments that ultimately move the needle in a huge way. i think they only affirm what many angling jack smith and his office and the attorneys working for him at the doj already know. which is that donald trump had a very very cavalier attitude as it relates to how he handles these documents. even after being told, number one, by the national archive, -- fbi and doj that he needs to return these documents. so if anything, this goes to speaking to his state of mind

about the cavalier nature of how he approached handling these documents. but on a larger note i will have to say as an attorney that -- it also underscores how difficult a client donald trump is to actually handle. you do not want a client in your -- have this much to say about an open destination. he continues to keep himself in trouble by keeping him his mouth running about this, he should just be quiet now. >> -- he said, quote, not only do they contradict his legal position. he admits to possession and knowledge of classified documents. that he is taking from the white house. jack smith will make good use of tuesday's town hall and they will help him buttoned up his case. do you agree? >> well i was listening to that over and over and over again, what he said in a town hall, i think it would be a mistake to underestimate donald trump's ability to play to his base, give them what they want to hear, and still leave themself

a little wiggle room. i think that if we ever get to a trial here. what he would say, well, there were boxes left it on the sidewalk and people were taking pictures of them. whatever was in the boxes i had the right to take and once i took them, if they were classified documents in them they were classified. so i think he left himself a little wiggle room. charles is absolutely right. this is a gift to prosecutors r a couple of reasons, one, they now know exactly what his defense will be. he wouldn't just say, well, i am not guilty, let the legal process play out. he spoke substantively to what he believes the charges would be if they are bra and what his defense is. the other thing is that if he were to decide if charges were brought, if he were decide not to put the witness stand. jack smith now has him on video saying what he needs to say, and that can be played, a defendant statement on relevant matters is admissible at trial. so we saw that in the e. jean

carroll trial, they played his deposition. so i think for those reasons this is an advantage to doug smith. >> charles, trump also spoke to the -- asking him to find more votes. trump told the crowd, i said you owed me votes because the election was rigged. and a georgia state university professor told the atlanta journal constitution that trump was already in a whole legally and criminally in georgia and he dove in deeper. because he articulated the motive for his unlawful conduct including conduct in the united states of america including under georgia law. so how damaging were his comments about that particular probe? >> again, i think that that is the core of what we are talking about with donald trump. if you are providing prosecutors with different tools in terms of the words anything that you say, the things that you say they're incriminating and that can be problematic. and now it is really up to the prosecutors to skillfully and hopefully use them in terms of how they proceed with their cases and their --

these have a lot of -- a lot of utility even -- actually establishing his state of mind. >> carol, before we go, let's turn to the e. jean carroll case. the lawyers filed a notice of intent to appeal their loss in that civil case. but we should also note that carols lawyers said they will make a decision soon on whether to file another defamation suit after trump once again made disparaging comments about carole at the town hall. where you see all of this going. >> we have not heard the last from either party here unfortunately. donald trump recognizes that this is a damaging verdict that came out unanimous verdict that found that he committed not only defamation but sexual assault. so he is going to keep swinging on that front and e. jean carroll has to decide how many times she wants to follow defamation suits against him. so it is just going to be time and time again, we are going to

hear from both parties here. where the appeal is going to go, i have looked at the possible issues that could be bought, and they don't look like that strong to me. but we will have to see. >> charles coleman and carol lynn, thank you. still ahead, an end to the murder case against the so-called doomsday cult mom charged with killing two of her children. >> i hope nobody ever has to see and hear the details of what happened to j.j., to tylee, and to tammy. and bacon ranch. built with rotisserie-style chicken and double cheese. i love what i'm seeing here. that's some well-coached chicken. you done, peyton? the subway series just keeps gettin' better. a ballet studio, an architecture firm... and homemade barbeque sauce.

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hours to convict her. the idaho mother found guilty of killing her two youngest kids and conspiring to kill her husband's first wife. vallow showing no emotion in court as the verdict was read, but outside family of the children couldn't hold it in. >> thank y'all, thank you all, thank you all. >> it was a shocking case that referenced evil spirits, colts, zombies and doomsday prophecies. it starts september of 2019. follows two kids disappear, tylee, 16 years old, and j.j., just seven. one month later, the ex wife of a fallow's current husband, chad daybell, is found dead. and just two weeks after as the children remain missing vallow and daboll flew to hawaii to get married. her kids bodies are found in her newlyweds properties that following summer. >> i hope nobody ever has to see and hear the details of what happened to j.j., to tylee,

and to tammy. >> in the aftermath of their murders, ballot became known as the doomsday cult mom. witnesses testified that vallow and her husband subscribed to the doomsday belief system and believed in evil spirits. >> did she ever tell you if j.j. was taken over, possessed by an evil spirit. >> yes. >> prosecution painted a picture of a woman eager for a carefree life, highlighting the fact that she never reported the children missing. >> money, power, and sex. that is what this case is about. >> as the weeks-long trial came to a dramatic and, the grandfather of young j.j. had one message for the boys mother. now facing life behind bars. >> love always wins. >> our thanks to miranda for that report. that wraps it up for this hour. i am lindsey reiser in for yasmin vossoughian, i will be back at 2 pm eastern tomorrow, symone starts now.