instrument on peacock. that does it for me today, i'm alicia menendez. thank you for spending part of your saturday with us. be sure to follow the show on twitter, instagram, and tiktok at alicia on msnbc. and we will of course you here tomorrow, yes, on mother's day for more american voices. for now, i handed over to my colleague ayman wilkie dean, hello,. amen >> hello, alicia. first, i have to ask you about that. how in the world are you working on mother's day? what's going on in your house so that you could not get a day off? what's going on? >> well, i love my children -- >> -- >> i'm just having it all, ayman. >> i was going to say -- escape from the kids for a few hours. >> don't tell them. don't tell them. >> -- george santos and all his crazy shenanigans and then you are like, wait a minute, nothing makes sense anymore. >> when -- >> alicia, it's always great to see you, my friend. enjoy the rest of your evening off. welcome to ayman tonight. e. jean carroll's new legal strife just days after winning her court case against donald

trump, she's considering picking a fight with the ex president. then, santos circus -- george santos facing 13 new federal charges -- the indications of the republicans might finally drop him. plus, the definitive clarence thomas timeline. we take you back almost 20 years to get to the bottom of his serious ethical lapses. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's get started. donald trump might soon be facing e. jean carroll in court yet again. this week the twice impeached and now indicted ex president was found liable for sexual abuse and defamation. a new york jury awarded e. jean carroll $5 million in damages that after she said that trump sexually abused her in a department store dressing room in the 1990s. and the jury found that trump defamed carroll by saying that her accusations were a hoax and a con job. now, when trump was

astonishingly given a public platform to discuss the verdict the very next year, well, he immediately fell back into his old ways. >> i never met this woman. i never saw this woman. i swear -- i have no idea who -- she is a whack job. >> -- >> what kind of a woman meet somebody and brings them up and within minutes you are playing hanky panty in a dressing room. okay? i don't know if she was married then or not. john johnson -- i feel sorry for you, john johnson. >> mister president -- >> after that debacle that you witnessed there, carroll and her lawyers told the new york times that they may file a new defamation -- her attorney, roberta kaplan told the paper, quote, everything is on the table. the same day, trump took legal action of his own, filing illegal notice of appeal. we'll step back in for a moment here. the impact of the e. jean carroll verdict cannot be

overstated. think about this. for the first time, the former president who has been accused of sexual misconduct by more than two dozen women was actually held legally responsible for sexual abuse in civil court. as well one of trump's accusers told the washington post, quote, it vindicates all of us. here is carroll on msnbc earlier this week. >> we did away with the perfect victim concept. the perfect victim always screams. she always goes to the police. she always writes the date in her diary. she always folds up and is a sad person. for every woman in the country, this is for you. i think this will help you all be believed. >> that e. jean carroll took on a former president with virtually unlimited resources and power to trial and then one is usually reassuring for other survivors who are scared they

won't be believed. and that is especially true for other trump accusers. because, while other powerful men saw their careers derailed by allegations of sexual assault during the rise of the me too movement, trump has remained impervious to this, until this week. amy door has accused trump of forcibly kissing her and groping her at the u.s. open tennis tournament back in 1997, when doors received text tuesday afternoon that carroll had won the case, her initial reaction was stunned and disbelief. that quickly morphed into the satisfaction. quote, finally, said doris, she's he's officially an actual predator. let's discuss this now with molly jong-fast, who's the fast politics podcast and special correspondent for vanity fair, renato mariotti, former federal prosecutor and -- with politico, and carol lam, a former federal prosecutor and an msnbc legal analyst. it's great to have all three of you with us. carol lam, let's start with

you. legally speaking here, what does it mean for a former president to be held liable in a civil court of law for sexual abuse? >> well, it does not mean that he can't continue running for president, even if it was a criminal conviction, he can continue running for president as long as it is not a conviction for treason. but what this does do, of course, is create something of a drag on his candidacy. and it is, however, simply to bring a lawsuit against somebody who is simply running to be the president as opposed to someone who actually is the president. we saw all the difficulties involved with bringing a civil suit while people are actually president. there are a lot of tensions that arise because the president has to go along with the presidents duty. and so the fact that trump is not actually the president at this time does make things easier for plaintiffs.

>> renato mariotti, let's talk about that appeal being filed by the ex president. carroll's lawyer told msnbc she has really felt more confident about appeal than she does with this one. she was on to say that trump's lawyers have, quote, no legitimate arguments for appeal. do you agree? do you share that assessment? >> i think she has the right, and i think she should be confident. the only, i think, issue that need maybe stand substantial on appeal is whether or not the testimony of other women who had been assaulted by the former president could be introduced at trial. in other words, one of the most powerful pieces of evidence was other accusers who came forward and said that donald trump had assaulted them. basically, to show a pattern of activity. an m o of sorts. i think that was powerful evidence. but the courts are generally reluctant to admit that

evidence. and you will recall a similar issue, although it was in a criminal context in the bill cosby case -- that was one issue that comes to mind. but generally speaking, i think robbie kaplan is very correct to be confident about how this is -- >> molly, a few moments ago you probably saw that a show that clip of donald trump continuing to attack e. jean carroll, even after this verdict came in in a just unbelievable town hall, folks clapping, cheering, laughing at his comments. what did you make of his behavior wednesday night, specifically on the subject? >> well, it's interesting. i felt like he could not control himself, right? the day before he was -- you know, bound by a court to have the famed this woman. and then the next day he went on and continue defaming her. it's expensive. and the court has a 5 million dollar settlement for this e. jean carroll case. and e. jean carroll he's not

alone. there are 25 other accusers. and this is a guy who loves to defame. think of all the people that he would single out during the rallies, from poll workers to peter strzok. so, you could see a world where you are opening a door to endless defamation cases and endless, i mean -- this sexual assault case was because of this survivors law. but there is certainly -- this is not a man who does not have people who he has defamed. so, i do think it could be really problematic for him. but the misogyny of it was just shocking, i thought. >> carol, let me pick up on that point that molly just brought. it also goes back to e. jean carroll's lawyer saying that trump's comments this week in that town hall could be grounds for a new defamation lawsuit. what is your assessment? does she have a case based on what you saw?

>> oh, i think she has a case. the question is, when would she bring it? and where would she bring it? so, the town hall was in new hampshire. it does affect potential voters in new york. and so there are two possible venues. there's actually probably more than two possible venues where she could bring a lawsuit. she has to keep an eye on the statute of limitations. new york actually has a shorter statute of limitations. it's one year, rather than new hampshire, which is three years. she also might want to see what happens with the appeal. because if there is actually a final judgment in the case -- that is to say, an appeals court is upheld the verdict and there is nothing more to be done on the case, the judgment is final, that might open the door to what we call issue preclude xin. in other words, she could say, hey, we have already proven that he committed a sexual

assault. we have proven it to a jury unanimously. and now that can't be re-litigated. that's a tricky area of the law. but there are all these different possibilities. so, every time he gets up there and says something disparaging, again, to her, if she feels that she can claim new damage, that is a possibility. sure. >> and i suspect that it may be a recurring theme with this president or former president as the campaign heats up and he continues on the campaign trail with the same kind of rhetoric. renato, he was carroll able to get justice using a new new york state law, speaking to which, carol, we just addressing the statute of limitations. this is because the statute of limitations on sexual abuse complaints was basically allowed to be extended, i guess, if that's the right word. there was no longer a statute of limitations for these kinds of attacks. talk about the impact that carroll's victory may have on other survivors who may have been hesitant to pursue justice but now have this window

because there is no longer a statute of limitations on these types of sexual assault crimes. >> i think it is very important. i represented a woman in the southern district of new york who brought forward a claim that was similar in certain respects, regarding sexual assault that she had suffered. it was awful for her, just when she had to go through. it was very difficult to relive that. as everyone knows, it often can take time for a survivor to come forward. that is why the statute of limitation laws are so important to give an opportunity for women who were not able to come forward shortly after the incident. so, i think it really sends an important message to women across this country, which is that there is an opportunity for justice, even if the person who is at the other table in the courtroom is rich, is powerful, is famous, you can achieve justice in the united states. and so i really hope that this

also causes other states to take a look at potential and similar law to give women an opportunity to come forward even if some -- >> molly, it appears that this verdict, as we saw with the reaction in that town hall there, we'll have little impact on the gop primary. at least, that's what i believe. and when you consider a majority of trump's own rivals are refusing to condemn his actions it's hard to imagine the base would either. if he secures the party's nomination, though, could this spell trouble for trump and the republican party in the general election when it gets to not his hardened extreme far-right base, but common sense rational people who still care about these types of issues? just because of what it portends for america? >> well, we have seen this again and again, right? and we have seen it with abortion. abortion law for republican in 22 -- 2018. yeah, i mean, i think you are going to see this more. and certainly his --

his message is not a winning message for most people. it just sort of sings to this mug a base. but it doesn't -- it really doesn't connect with a lot of swing voters. i think people are going to continue to find this distasteful. we saw that you can do trumpism in ruby red states. but you can't do trumpism in even states like arizona. and ask non governor kari lake. i mean, i think we can see that in the swing states this kind of stuff does not play. thank god. >> we will wait and see how it does play out. carol, please stick around. we've got more to discuss after the break. next, george santos -- europe, the congressman -- arrested on federal charges, and top republicans still say, let's see what happens. ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement.

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clear my name and i look forward to doing that. >> -- >> the way i look at it, i -- >> that was, yeah, republican george santos, speaking outside the long island courthouse this week, defined as ever, and appearance at acknowledge the low standard that house republicans have set when it comes to leadership. this can't overturn congressman pleaded not guilty to 13 charges of wire fraud, money laundering, theft of public funds and making false statements to congress. but that was not the only court appearance santos made this week. on thursday, he appeared before a brazilian court, at least virtually, signing a deal with prosecutors in which he confessed to stealing a checkbook to by various goods, including a pair of -- wait for it -- tennis shoes. he also agreed to pay restitution and fines if they agreed to drop a criminal case against him. so, now that santos is a self confessed criminal, we'll speak

irma kevin kevin mccarthy finally cut ties and call on him to resign? will he have a backbone? i would not hold your breath, folks. despite telling reporters that he would not support sentences we election bid, mccarthy, who oversees a razor-thin majority in the house, that santos should still be allowed to continue to serve in congress. that is the truth, folks. let's bring back my panel to discuss this and more. carol, the indictment alleges that santos engaged in several fraudulent schemes. what can you tell us about the charges being brought against george santos? >> yeah. well, there is just so much here. it's almost hard to keep track. unfortunately, for george santos, it happens against the backdrop of his already having been caught in so many lies that were necessarily criminal, but there were lies about his resume and his qualifications. so, you have got this panoply of charges and the total amount is not tremendous. it's something like 75 or

$77,000 if you put it all together. but the various ways in which he lies and the wire fraud, the money laundering, the money laundering that leads to forfeit your counts -- it is these all sort of garden-variety fraud. the u.s. attorney's office knows how to prosecute these cases, and what is going to happen here is, if he decides to fight these charges and not actually plead guilty is, it's going to be one of those trials where it's almost impossible for him to say anything without being caught in another lie. so, this strikes me as a very likely case that is going to end up either with a guilty plea of sorts or a fairly cut and dry trial. >> renato, let's talk about one of the schemes. prosecutors say that in the late, i believe, 2022, desantis allegedly asked a political consultant detail donors that

their funds would be used to buy tv ads for a campaign. instead, the money was moved to santos's personal account, where was used to buy a luxury designer clothing, pay off credit cards and make a car payment. can santa spin that? or is it as damning as it appears to us when we heard it? >> yeah, it's pretty damning. and i think a garden-variety -- is one way of putting it. but we don't see this often in the context of campaign donations, right? politicians sometimes say misleading things in a campaign donation context. -- increasingly willing to investigate that. you know, jack smith is taking a look at the trump campaign and some of the trump entities. here, though, oh boy, garden-variety -- for sure. and he basically is saying, give money to my campaign, and instead, he was having donors put money into a company above the campaign limits the money wasn't going to his campaign. it was going to, as you saw, his own personal item.

>> as you -- let's talk kevin mccarthy here, molly, because as i mentioned, you've got santa said the case in brazil involving a pair of shoes in a stolen checkbook way back in 2008. he is a confessed criminal. that is what george santos has confessed to. and yet, kevin mccarthy is on the sidelines here, now calling on santos to resign, although he says he won't support his reelection. he is not calling on him to resign. will the continued public embarrassment have any impact? or is this all a numbers game for speaker kevin mccarthy regardless of the quality of the people who support him? >> i'm not sure kevin mccarthy has the intellectual heft to understand why this might hurt him, right? by why having someone like him in the republican congressional party -- and, i mean, someone who says things like, i'm not worse than anyone else in congress. >> right. >> but i feel like that's not a great defense. but i think this is an interesting situation because

kevin mccarthy is -- remember, he is a trump sycophant. and once you start telling people they have to resign for doing things that -- >> yeah, exactly. >> -- smell right, you are really going to have trouble defending trump. so, i really do think kevin mccarthy is in a bind here. and i'd love to see. it >> carol, you heard from santos, he still intends to seek reelection. will an ongoing trial have an impact on his ability to campaign? and if he is found guilty, could he still seek office? or is it the same for what you were saying earlier about president trump? which is, no criminal indictment or charges would necessarily legally stop him from seeking higher office. >> so, well -- let me start with the first part of your question. if you look back not too far, about 20 years, i think you will find about a dozen congressman who have been indicted for one thing or another. and most of them either, if

they didn't run for reelection, then, of course, they weren't reelected. some of them stepped down. but that was only after they pled guilty or were actually found guilty. so, this is not unusual at all, that santos would continue serving in congress until there is some sort of conviction, either by plea or by trial. but this is not this same sort of situation as a president. a congresswoman, if he should go to trial, he can stay in his position. and most of them end up staying in their position for the most obvious of reasons. they want to continue drawing the salary. they want to continue accruing the retirement benefits. and so that has been the history for the last few decades. >> and molly, santos has held an outlier in the republican party. would you tours, the democratic congressman from new york tweeted out, politicians like sanders and donald trump are just symptoms of a disease gop, which he says has become a,

quote, safe haven for clowns, crooks, charlatans and conspiratorial cracked pots. a., do you agree, and the, do you think the voters care? >> well, that's the problem, is that probably these purple state voters care. but the real base -- the people who are the primary voters, the ones who republicans have to get through in order to get to run as republicans -- they seem not to care, right? trump has the sensitize them to scandal and has made it so that you can laugh at such allegations of sexual assault. so, i would say that this has really -- you know, it's funny, because it's like trump really has a hold on this base. but you find republicans are unable to elect people in their primaries you can win elections. and so, i think we will keep seeing this until there is some kind of reckoning. >> yeah, indeed we will.

and i don't think that reckoning is coming anytime soon, at least with the way these republicans are shaping up. coming up, we are going to look back on decades of clarence thomas's ethical issues. and they are a lot. ♪ ♪ ♪ but do i have to give up sweets? if you work out a diet plan, nothing is off limits. you dropped it! i don't know if i can afford all these prescriptions. we've got discount programs, you've got options. i'm just glad i have you to talk to about this. that's what i'm here for. the cgm, still getting used to it. let's take a look. when you need to talk diabetes, our pharmacists are here. whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it!

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flonase headache and allergy relief. (vo) adventure on a deeper level. the subaru forester wilderness. dog tested. dog approved. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. >> no thanks. that was basically gop megadonor harlan crow's response to a request this week from the senate finance committee to turn over a list of gifts that he has given to supreme court justice clarence thomas. crow released a statement through his attorney, saying or citing concerns that the senate panel lacked, quote, the scope and authority for ask for his cooperation. it is the latest escalation in the now months long saga regarding clarence thomas's glaring ethical lapses. but really, i should say, it is

actually a decades long. because ethics issues have plagued clarence thomas and his wife, ginni thomas, since he first entered the national spotlight. let's go down memory lane in review some of them. and to be clear, this is what we know at this time. you never know what else has yet to be uncovered in the weeks and months ahead. 1991. thomas is confirmed to the supreme court after senate hearings featuring graphic allegations of sexual harassment from anita hail. 1996. pro meets thomas for the first time in washington and invite him to fly in a private jet to dallas. thomas fails to disclose that trip during which he and harlan crow reportedly bonded. 2008. thomas begin sending his grand nephew to a private boarding school in georgia. records show that crow paid his $6,200 a month tuition. propublica later reported that crew paid the tuition for the

grandnephews and tire your long stay at that school. guess what? thomas never reports this. 2009. harlan crow reportedly gives $500,000 to a political nonprofit started by ginni thomas. the money is initially given anonymously. but politico links it to crow in 2011. 2012 -- conservative activist leonard leo instructs kellyanne conway to billet nonprofit group he advises and give ginni thomas another $25,000. he says the paperwork should include no mention of genie ginni thomas, of course. 2014 -- in thomasville three pieces of property he co-owners to crow, including his mother's house. despite the law outlining that such real estate sales must be disclosed, thomas does not to do so. my panel is back with me. carol, that was just kind of the timeline we put together. let's start with his letter from harlan crow's attorneys to the senate finance committee

this week, when he basically does not want to cooperate. how solid do you think their legal rationale for ignoring the panel's inquiries? this is a senate congressional committee. >> i think ultimately they would win on this front. the weird thing is that, ultimately, that issue could end up going up in front of the supreme court. and that is what is so uncomfortable and awkward about this entire scenario. this is all about standards. this isn't about rules, necessarily, because, as we have learned, it's very difficult to figure out whether any rules actually do apply to the supreme court, because they are a separate branch of government. but if you really want to get down to brass tacks and say, does this committee have the ability to subpoena these records, i think the answer is ultimately going to be yes. but probably not without a lot of discomfort about the court that has to make that final decision. >> molly, what the hell is going on with the supreme court

of the united states of america? you've got, in recent weeks -- i don't know if this is new or we are just -- this is practice for -- you've got neil gorsuch, john roberts, now the subject of not-so-positive headlines. neil gorsuch, for selling property to the head of a law firm with business before the court, and roberts for his wife's finances. seriously, what is going on with this scotus conservatives? >> i think it's fair to say this exercise in self policing that the supreme court is supposed to be doing has failed. they don't have the same ethics laws that slightly lower courts do. and clearly, they can't stick to it. i would like to point out, in the same sort of court is elena kagan, who refused bagels from a -- >> right. >> -- because she felt it was ethically dicey. so, i don't think all the justices are doing this. but certainly, thomas is famous. and i would like to point out that thomas really changed the

way he disclosed after 2000 for peace in the l.a. times, which took him to task for some of this. so, i do think this was conscious. and he certainly knows what he is doing. >> renato, now that dianne feinstein is back in washington, democrats have the numbers to subpoena clarence thomas before the senate judiciary committee. i imagine that he would fight that subpoena. and again, to carol's point, how does that get resolved? >> i actually think that that would not make it up to the supreme court. it's very interesting. i actually think that -- you know, for example, if pro is to fight a subpoena, let's say, to himself or even a subpoena to thomas or to his wife, i think the appearance of how that would look and be before the supreme court -- i think that would be very difficult. it would be very hard for thomas not to recuse if he didn't. it would create even more of an appearance of an issue. i actually -- you know, if the senate does

put forward, i think it's a real matter of political will on the part of the united states senate and senators. if you are going to investigate the -- i agree with carol, -- we'll be able to do so. and frankly, there is something to investigate here. -- you don't need to be a legal scholar or a lawyer. this is something that looks really fishy. if somebody was paying my kids tuition, then, obviously, that's -- and the fact that the supreme court does -- an issue. >> i was going to say. i think we have some commentary there from. molly, is that your dog will weighing in on that? >> that's mine. >> oh, renato, your dog is agreeing with you. let me ask you this, molly. if the shoe was on the other foot, do you think that democrats are sounding the alarm loudly enough? because, what i mean by that is, if it was a democratic member of the supreme court or a

liberal-leaning justice of the supreme court, i can't even begin to imagine the investigations and the impeachment hearings, and all the challenges that republicans would be throwing and just making a kerfuffle about if it were that case. and here is a completely much more extreme case that i think democrats are totally not addressing head on. >> yeah. i think it would be benghazi times 11. >> right. look at what they are doing overlap top that does not even belong to a government official, let alone a sitting member of the supreme court. >> yeah. i think republicans love these kind of investigations. and you see that democrats are so uncomfortable with his. i mean, even -- you have durbin sort of trying, a little bit hesitant. i think that we are going to see -- you know, they are sort of pushed to have to do it. but yeah, the supreme court is a problem. they are going to stay conservative, i'm going to add,

i don't know if you -- the research paper. they are going to stay conservative until 2067, this paper says. and they are very emboldened. and they are making -- their really activists more than they are justices at this point. so, democrats are going to have to really get serious about this. and i think it is going to be hard for them. >> molly jong-fast, renato mariotti and, thank you to the three of you for joining us. it's greatly pre shaded, as always. still to come, congresswoman rashida tlaib is blocked by house speaker kevin mccarthy from holding a event marking palestinian displacement. she is here live to talk about that. stick around. stick around y downy light in-wash freshness boosters. it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. finally, a light scent that lasts all day. downy light! we got the house! finally, a light scent that lyou did! day. pods handles the driving. pack at your pace. store your things until you're ready. then we deliver to your new home -

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placed jordan neely in a fatal chokehold aboard a new york subway train -- daniel penny, marine corps veteran, was charged with second degree manslaughter after a judge set bail out $100,000. pennies next court appearance is not until july 17th but emotions by inspired by the case have already spilled out into the streets of new york and beyond. supporters of mr. neely, and michael jackson impersonator who is homeless, had expressed particular outrage over the second degree manslaughter charge, a matter neely family attorney leonard edwards addressed yesterday. >> but daniel penny chose -- intentionally chose -- to -- use --

designed to cut off air. that's what he chose. so, we believe that the conviction should be for murder, because that's intentional. >> now, despite his legal woes, we learned late this week that daniel penny has friends in high places, including the florida governor's mansion and the halls of congress among republicans. governor ron desantis tweeted out friday that he supports, quote, good samaritans like penny, and then you have congressman matt gates calling penny a, quote, subway superman, and suggesting that d.a. alvin bragg would, quote, rather you die than defend yourself. now if you are getting a vague sense of déjà vu, you are not crazy here. for many years now, the republican party has pivoted to explicitly embracing vigilante violence and, most often, white vigilante violence the. same far-right voices who smeared 17 year old trayvon martin as a thug when he was killed walking home with skittles are now turning their sights on jordan neely.

and the same far-right voices who held that kyle rittenhouse is a hero, a role model, are doing it again. they are now line is in daniel penny. and it is a powerful propaganda cycle. penny's legal defense fund has now surpassed $1 million. in fact, so many donors flocked to his gifts and go page that the hosting website was disabled for a time. meanwhile, the gofundme account that was set up by jordan neely neely's and to cover his funeral and memorial expenses, it has raised just $80, 000, compared to penny's $1 million. look, money isn't everything. but it sure does signal a nations priorities. nations priorities there's a dr. scholl's for that. dr. scholl's massaging gel insoles have patented gel waves that absorb shock to hard-working muscles and joints, for all-day energy. (wheezing)

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the ethnic cleansing of palestinian towns and villages in 1948, when the state of israel was created. to mark this solemn occasion, congresswoman rashida tlaib had planned to host an event at the capitol aimed at uplifting the experiences of palestinians who survived the nakba, and to educate members of congress and their staff about this important chapter in palestinian history. that, of course, was until kevin mccarthy stepped in and blocked the event from happening, accusing the congresswoman of trafficking in, quote, antisemitic tropes. you see, the republicans are not only on a mission to rewrite and erase our own american history. it seems now they want to do the same with the history of people outside the united states, like the palestinians. never mind the fact that israeli press has been reporting on the nakba and what it means to palestinians for decades or, that israeli historians and scholars have documented it based on archival records and the eyewitness

testimony of the palestinians who survived it, or even that the united nations will hold its first ever commemoration to recognize the nakba. these is an acknowledgment of history. it is unlike what speaker mccarthy is trying to do. mccarthy later tweeted that he would instead host a bipartisan discussion to honor the 75th anniversary of the u.s. israel relationship. tlaib responded by saying, speaker mccarthy wants to rewrite history and the race the existence and truth of the palestinian people, but he has failed to do so. this important anniversary comes at a time of intense upheaval in the region. just hours ago, a u.s. official and an israeli official told nbc news that israel and the palestinian militants in gaza have agreed to a cease fire brokered by egypt, and it all comes after a week in which the palestinian health ministry confirmed that 30 palestinians -- six of them children -- were killed, and 90 more injured -- from israeli airstrikes launched on the gaza strip.

and all of this serves as a brutal reminder that yet another generation of palestinians existence remains under deadly threat, just as there ancestors did 75 years ago. congresswoman rashida tlaib joins me now. congresswoman, it is great to have you on to talk about this. i know that speaker mccarthy does not want to hear it. but it's an important conversation to be had. talk to me about why you want to have this event, why you wanted this day specifically to be recognized, and held in congress. >> as everyone knows, i am always very proud that i grew up in my detroit. i always say it is the most beautiful black ice city in the country. but one of the things i learned early on as a child is that we cannot truly have a quality and justice when this case lasting peace if we do not recognize the horrific side of our own history and our own -- black neighbors as well as indigenous people, as well as

both continue to be targeted by inequity and injustices. so, for me, as a palestinian american, growing up with two palestinian american parents, talking about not only the nakba in 1948 and the experiences they heard from their own parents, but also the fact that the nakba never ended for many palestinians still currently living, again, under what many again -- organizations, human rights organizations -- called apartheid. so, i wanted them to hear -- you know, folks in their 80s came and spoke about being eight years old, another woman, 11 years old, many endured the trauma and the pain of the nakba -- talked about carrying her -- 14-day old sister in her hands while she was fleeing and how they watched, again, brutal attack on -- over 400 villages, palestinian villages were erased during the nakba --

and again, if we are going to be, as a country, a true broker of peace, we have to recognize all the trauma and the pain in the history of the palestinian people. >> talk to me about how the event ultimately went, just from the fact that kevin mccarthy blocked the initial one that was supposed to take place on the house side. you've got some help from senator bernie sanders in moving the event to the senate side, where mccarthy has no authority to block it. just walk us through how that played out and how did the event go. >> i mean, it's typical. we expected mccarthy and some of the same folks that continue to really block any access to democracy and have various voices, even -- fighting for reproductive health or even those trying to fight for justice within holding the supreme court accountable -- we saw over and over again, where black lives matter protesters show up and kind of the aggression and kind of the silencing and intimidation and bullying that happens when we speak up and speak truth to power. i think that leader mccarthy

forgets, before i was a congresswoman, i'm from detroit. and nothing stops detroit. and so i kept pushing and pushing until i could find a home for us to be right there on capitol hill like any other american deserves, to be heard in the halls of congress. and so everyone need -- in the senate. because i think leaving with compassion and understanding, again, to support a real democracy in our country, we all deserve to be able to share our stories and to be able to have space to do that. every member of congress has access to these rooms. and i think leader mccarthy does not believe someone like me deserves that same access. but it will continue to push back against this kind of, i think, attack on our democracy and attack on a hold people in the united states that deserve, again, deserve to be heard, again, in the united states congress. >> what do you make of him hosting this event, praising the u.s. israel relationship in lieu of what you had planned? the israel u.s. relationship has obviously come under a lot of scrutiny, not just because of the palestinian issue but

also because of what israel is undergoing internally, given its own challenges in the judiciary and with this extreme right wing government -- the most in extreme extreme in its history -- but at a time when it is coming under that scrutiny and u.s. public sentiment is changing towards israel, kevin mccarthy seems to be doubling down on that relationship. >> yeah, you heard it even with his speech. he's so much in line with extremism, right-wing government under netanyahu's leadership, in israel, in the way they are even talking about that, both the united states and israel -- how is that possible when we are still currently fighting for that form of justice within our own country here? these are folks that are completely denying the existence of the whole people. in the united states, i continue to talk about what is going on with our indigenous people, who literally are under attack, under environmental injustice is, from pipelines to indigenous women disappearing every single day, with no

justice, with no accountability. the dehumanization that happens continually under mccarthy's leadership is so -- when netanyahu, when he speaks of palestinian people. it's incredibly painful to hear someone say that they want another nakba, that they don't want, again, to fully acknowledge the existence of its neighbors, the palestinian people who have been their generations. >> yeah, we still hear that from israeli officials who talked about wiping villages off the map, basically, in light of what has happened in recent months. congresswoman rashida tlaib, thank you so much for your time. i greatly appreciate you coming on to talk about this important subject. >> thank you. >> surround, the second hour of ayman is coming up after a quick break. er a quick break. and it's only $35 a line. (vo) save big during our spring savings event, and get the disney bundle with disney+, hulu, and espn+ included. all for just $35 a line. verizon when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me.

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hour of ayman, trump says he plans to pardon a large portion of insurrectionists while alabama senator tommy tuberville calls white nationalist, quote, americans. whoa right wing extremism is becoming increasingly normalized in this country. plus, as the debt ceiling crisis creeps closer to reality, what are republicans real priorities? and if you have never heard of them, autocratic capture. we are going to explain how ron desantis is easing it with his war on disney. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ the