matter what. these cases aren't going to change their minds. however, it was really something to be at the courthouse for the e. jean carroll. i watched her testimony. there were women that came from out of the country. out of the state to watch it. as we discussed the testimony during the breaks, i was struck by the roi motion that people there had. tears, and society. above, all hope a jury would finally find him accountable. and believe her. that's what the jury did. in the court of law, his playbook of lies and intimidation tactics. they were exposed. that's what led to a jury being able to find by clear and convincing evidence that not only were -- but he knew it. that matters. a court of law, rule of law matters. >> thanks to both of you, we are seeing here a time this morning. jen psaki is up next.

>> donald from storms back into the national spotlight with a predictable torrent of lies. new hampshire governor kristen sununu has been a republican critic of the former president. my throw his hat into the ring soon. i sat on with the governor for a wide-ranging sunday foods event that's coming up first. plus, republicans jump to trump's defense after a jury found him liable for sexually abusing e. jean carroll. let's just say i have a few thoughts about some of the so-called defenders of family values. meanwhile, from trump on down, gop white house hopefuls twist themselves into knots trying to explain to their positions on abortion. i think i know why and i'll explain it in just a few minutes. we also have some news to bring today out of planned parenthood. it will reveal that with the organizations president and ceo alexis mcgill johnson. later, i don't know how or bookie producer managed it but

we landed a mother's day explosive with my mom. her advice for parents after career and family therapy and he asked some stories about raising money. >> so much of what we heard from donald trump this week was backward looking. continuing to lie about an election he lost. calling january 6th a beautiful day. marking a woman who he sexually abuse according to a jury of his peers. some of what we heard from the former president was also a preview of what's to come. and what a second trump term could look like. pardons for insurrectionists, a commander in chief who refuses to say that he wants ukraine to win the war. president who openly uses about playing politics with our nation's debt. senator mitt romney put it pretty bluntly. you see what you are going to get. jesse presidency untethered to the truth and untethered to the constitutional order.

of, course he's right. convincing republican voters to move on from trump is ultimately going to be up to one of the people running against him. who is it going to be? rhonda scent is might've already peaked. we'll see. nikki haley is still apparently in the race. mike pence is still apparently thinking about it. none of them have had much to say at least nothing critical about the front runner. at some point, that's gonna have to change if any of them want to beat him. they first guess is someone who is deciding the next few weeks whether he will jump in. in the run up to a possible announcement, governor kristen -- hasn't been afraid to throw a punch or two or three. he certainly didn't hold back when i sat down with him this week. >> the former president was in your home state for a town hall this week. he repeated the big lie, called january six a beautiful day. mocked a person who he sexually assaulted according to a jury. i know you said you vote for him if he's the nominee. watching that, hearing that. do you still -- >> asa say that's hypothetical

but i think everyone's gonna reassessing. even some of his supporters are saying okay, this can't be the message. this is a terrible message for the terrible messenger. donald trump does not define the republican party. out of any one individual or defines the party. it's about the pillars of what we're about at our core. >> he said this many times. he is not gonna be the nominee. right now, he's ahead by double digits. by a lot. >> against two? >> against ronda santos. against nikki haley. against -- sort of his former vice president. what exactly is going to stop him. is that you? >> i guess my point is there's so many other candidates again the. rates are so many more parts of the discussion we haven't had a single debate yet. we didn't have a debate for the next two or three months. he'll have maybe a dozen debates. you go to iowa and new hampshire. all of this politics is yet to play out. they'll be more indictments on his side. more distractions and everything. i think the opportunity for candidates to talk about not just about the trump thing. but to actually show themselves, show their personalities. show their opportunity there.

their record of success. i think it's a huge opportunity. a lot more political game to be played. -- get on the big stage. see where it falls. anybody, maybe i don't. >> you're still. deciding tell me now if you're gonna run for president of course but what would be your first critique of donald trump? >> i think a lot of folks say -- i.c.e. -- i saw a lot of candidates trying to debate him on policy. you don't debate donald trump on policy. the guy has massive insecurities. he's a loser and he lost many times. he lost races in new hampshire. not just for himself but for my fellow candidates. he really got behind really bad candidates that were extreme, couldn't win in november. if you can't win in november, you shouldn't even be in the discussion. you think the best argument is he's a loser? >> yes, he can't. when >> i want to ask you about a scene from the town hall this week. one of the things that struck

me is the laughter in the audience particularly when trump was talking about ancient carroll. someone -- says he sexually abused now has to pay her $5 million. these are people in the audience from new hampshire, republicans new hampshire, undeclared voters in that room. i was curious what your reaction was. >> i could understand if the camera pans that audience. i knew pretty much everybody in that audience. they're all trump supporters. the audience was absolutely photos from supporters. i wasn't surprised to hear the support. what you're talking about a serious issue. laughter and mocking in all. that it's completely inappropriate. without a doubt. it doesn't shine a positive way to new hampshire. understand what the audience make up. was >> large percentage of trump supporters. >> i would say all of them. >> you're contemplating running for president. i wanna dive into a bunch of the issues that you talked about. your positions on. trump was asked repeatedly if he had signed a national abortion ban. if it came to his desk.

you wouldn't say. he was asked repeatedly. would you categorically say you would or wouldn't sign an abortion ban? >> not only would i not sign a national abortion ban. but nobody should be tight talking -- job said -- can make their own decisions. so they will. and this is not a national argument where the pro-life is ever going to win or the pro-choice movement is never going to win. it's never going to be one. let's have those battles at least a level. what mississippi wants to from the california or new hampshire or new york or missouri. let the states decide. because the accountability those decisions are held directly from those voters. if they don't like, that they can make the change. that's good government. that's what i don't think the founding fathers had battles on abortion rights. innovation when they created this country. the process by which we hammer out tough issues should always be -- the voters have more power. they have more -- they can decide the path for their community center much better way as post to a one

size fits all out of that building over there. that's really the answer. >> moving on to other things. you have an a rating from the nra. not something you front away from. he went to the nra convention just a few days after three kids were killed in a school shooting in nashville. there have been a number of mass shootings over the last few years. why did you think it was important to go and be there? >> i wouldn't say it was important to be there. it's a large constituency. new hampshire has a very strong record on supporting individuals rights rally second amendment and gun rights. 60,000 people there or whatever. a lot of manufacturers for their. it's good to go and talk about our record of success. not just around the laws around the individual freedoms that drive that. if you chest -- does mass shootings -- i'm 24/7. god forbid there's a mass shooting. it'd anyone anytime anywhere in this country. there's no law it's going to pass -- there's no lawyer going to pass that's gonna magically stop gun

violence. that's clear. >> do you think there are federal restrictions on guns that should be the law of the land? >> i think the laws are right now are pretty good. >> let me ask you some of the new hampshire laws. you're the expert on it and you know how guns are thought of a new hampshire. in 2019, you vetoed three gun safety bills passed by the state legislature. where those bills would've prevented guns on school property. they would've required parents to leave their guns in the car when picking up their kids from school. to me as a parent, that sounds like it makes a lot of sense. what does that make sense about that? >> it's public property. >> so parents should be allowed to bring guns into schools? >> technically, they can, yeah. >> why would that be something that would make kids safer or teachers -- >> i'm not saying it's making people safer. it would be pulling away a individuals right when they have the right to do that on public property, public round. >> so it's freedom or it's right to be able to -- okay, do you think teachers. one of the things that president trump called for was pardoning of schools.

do you thing more teachers should be armed in schools? >> if you have a training program and a training program and a system where teacher can be armed and there is -- yeah, that's a real possibility if you don't have other school resource officers. otherwise, you can bring in outside school resource officers. if if teacher wants to be trained, you have a system in place to get appropriate training. not just a guy, mr. smith carries a gun. you gotta have the right training and protocols and all of that. we made tens of millions of dollars in investment in new hampshire around the hardening of our schools, right investing and safety. it isn't just met with some has a gun and a training or not. we have that of course. it's really about lockdown systems, communication, safe doors, all that sort of thing. those things can sound small but in the moment of the crisis they can be very big deals. we take that very seriously. >> teachers across the country don't necessarily want to be armed. they've been -- police groups they are not

calling for more teachers to be armed. nor are first responders calling for more teachers to be armed. i'm calling that out as -- >> i'm not calling for more teachers to be armed and to say of school should have the ability to provide some type of resource officer. some type of safety protocols officer whether it's being armed or not. whatever they think is the right thing to do. if it's a teacher, that has the right training and protocols, they want to allow, that's fine. i don't think we should be handing out guns to teachers to say. the -- school is okay with it -- another >> issue close to your heart -- you might need a t-shirt or something like that. in the town hall this week, former president trump also urged the house republicans to force a debt default if the democrats don't agree to spending cuts. given how catastrophic that would be. it's rooting for that the right thing right now in terms of a message? >> no, no it should be rooting

for a default. let's take a little step back. i can tell you when i biggest frustrations with this town is anything 98% of people in that building where there don't have an economic sense. i think there's a massive economic illiteracy -- massive economic illiteracy in washington d.c.. that has real repercussions to everyday citizens to families to local banks to local small businesses. defaulting on the debt would be catastrophic. it would send a chain of reaction -- they would be terrible. republicans typically don't lie to increase our debt limit. one of the more fiscally responsible. i support that i know percent. >> unless there's a republican president and the benefit three times under trump. >> i agree. and again, they should have -- i don't increasing the debt limit as long as there is some cuts. republicans are giving at the same way we don't want to increase it but will capitulate, will negotiate, will give you

something, will increase that. you gotta show that there's some fiscal discipline back in the country. that comes with control and spending. >> the biggies, you're a fistful hawk, our defense spending. which would be open to defense spending? cutting defense spending, i should say. >> if you start saying education spending versus -- i think you can find massive officiant spending in every department. >> but there are very big buckets as you know that have the most size. defense spending or cuts to social security. medicare, medicaid. those will be the biggest buckets. >> i'm gonna jump around. you put up social security. social security 23% cut of security benefits are coming. eight years from. now that's in the law. that is. facts happening. every senior in america should be very concerned that joe biden says i'm not doing anything about it. even on trump says we neither. joining at the hip saying massive cuts are coming to social security benefits and

we're not doing anything about it. how about a candidate that's absorbs and says we're in a fix that. we're gonna make sure it doesn't happen. we're in a creek opportunity. efficiency in the system. >> you've talked about supporting privatizing social security. >> it's not about privatizing. that's kind of an easy answer. it's really about creating up other opportunities, options for the individual in terms of how they invest their dollars in ensuring that we can get a fiscal house back in order before these 20 -- 23% cut is upcoming two decades from now. it's literally coming -- biden and trump don't -- >> it requires tough political conversations. >> i don't think it's that tough. >> you've not shied away from. what would you be hoping to raise the retirement age? >> i think if someone wanted to, did they do it in france, they didn't show, we all these other countries. without a problem. you have to move to 70, no, i don't think it to move that far. you can look at the actual numbers. retirement age hasn't moved in decades. i don't know you probably know better than i. i think there's a lot of other doors that have to be open in a

dressing in talking about. >> my thanks to governor sununu force again to talk with me about not just trump but a range of issues on the minds of people across the country. up next, my take on e. jean carroll's case against donald trump. and the reaction from the so-called party of family values. plus, congresswoman katie porter trans vita weigh in on two major crises facing lawmakers on capitol hill. what we're just getting started today and we'll be right back. ht back. or us, driving around is the only way we can get our baby to sleep, so when our windshield cracked, we needed it fixed right. we went to safelite.com. there's no one else we'd trust. their experts replaced our windshield, and recalibrated our car's advanced safety system. they focus on our safety... so we can focus on this little guy. >> sinhey guys,afelite repair, detect this:lace. ♪ living with hiv, i learned that i can stay undetectable

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- he openly mocked his accuser to the laughter of republican voters in the audience. it was definitely disturbing. unfortunately, it was not necessarily surprising. why should republican voters take trump's wrongdoing seriously when the party leaders never call him out? let's be honest, this should not be a difficult question. if someone asks you, do you stand by someone who is found liable for sexual abuse? your answer should be some aversion of no. outside of a handful of republican lawmakers, they have by and large pretty much avoided criticizing the former president. take senator bill haggerty of tennessee. he responded to the verdict this week saying that, quote, trump has been amazing in his ability to weather these sorts of attacks. attacks from who? a unanimous jury that found him liable for sexual abuse? amazing, that's amazing.

there is senator tommy tuberville of alabama who said the ruling only makes him want to vote for trump twice. you heard that right. trump's sexual abuse makes the senator want to vote for him twice. other republicans took a defensive approach, responding with the same attired attacks on the integrity of the legal system. senator lindsey graham to declare that, quote, the legal system is off the rails. marco rubio called both the jury and the case, quote, a joke. i am not sure what is a joke to the senator about sexual abuse. maybe he can explain that to us. the most common are rob luckin refrained was indifference to a jury finding the de facto leader of their party liable for sexual abuse. trump's former vice president mike pence brushed off the verdict saying it is not clear where the american people are focused. call me crazy, but i think that more than a few people out there do care when a candidate has committed sexual abuse. here is presidential candidate

nikki haley just this morning when she was asked if this verdict undermines the party. >> i have always said that anyone that feels like they have been sexually assaulted in any way should come forward and have their voice heard. i also think anyone who has been accused should be able to defend themselves. i was not on the jury. i am not the judge. i think that both of them have their voices heard. there has been a verdict and there's an appeal. >> that was a pretty accurate summary of the legal process. i will certainly give her that. what i didn't hear was any kind of condemnation of someone who was just found liable for sexual abuse. look, all of these republicans are free to say something as simple as this -- donald trump's behavior is not what my party stands for. they are free. they have been free to do something about him. why start now? the problem for them is no matter how hard they try to spin themselves as the party of family values to create faith

controversies, that is hard to do with a straight face knowing that the de facto leader of the party has been branded a sexual abusers. somehow, at least behind closed doors, at least in public, they seem to be okay with that. up next, congresswoman katie porter joins me to talk about the humanitarian crisis at the southern border and the debt ceiling crisis on capitol hill. later, alexis mcgill johnson makes news right on the show. we are back after a quick break. show we are back after a quic break. break. i'm the sizzle in this promposal. and tonight, sparks are gonna fly. kyle? and while romeo over here is trying to look cool, things are about to heat up. uh-oh. darn it, kyle! and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could end up paying for this yourself. sorry mr. sanchez! get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me. that's a hard no. (tap, tap)

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this week, house republicans passed a bill which would severely restrict access to asylum at the border and pose huge spending cuts and build more of donald trump's ineffective wall. this has no chance of becoming law because it is nothing more than messaging for the right-wing base. the stakes could not be higher on both of these issues. the path forward on both is increasingly unclear. joining me now is democratic congresswoman katie porter of california. she is also a candidate for u.s. janet and a mom of three. before we dive into the issues, happy mother's day! >> thank you! >> in congress, as i just referenced, congress is clearly stalling on immigration despite that republican bill this week. is there executive authority that you think the biden administration should use to address the potential humanitarian crisis that could come at the border? >> the biden administration made some noises, had some

plans about ways to prepare for the end of title 42 which we all knew was coming. i think the real question now is how well those plans were -- that were oversight comes into play. did they put enough resources there? we know that they didn't have the staffing there. they are sending national guards to the border. this is not necessarily trained or equipped to deal with the challenges that migrants are facing and with processing. i think that we need to make sure that the chaos that title 42 created by closing our borders entirely and breaking our legal obligations under international law to process people seeking asylum does not turn into a different kind of chaos with a flood of folks. >> on the debt ceiling negotiations, as we near the deadline, it is rapidly approaching. there is some acknowledgment from the white house and congressional democrats in recent days that there will have to be some cuts. are you open to supporting a debt limit bill which is tied

to specific cuts? >> well, congress needs to do both things here. we need to raise the debt ceiling so we avoid a default which could throw millions of americans out of work. we need to do the work of deciding on an ongoing forward budget. those are both core congressional obligations. the republicans attempting to force us to do them together is really just a leverage game. it's a hostage game, trying to take our conmee hostage for our past spending and trying to use it as leverage to get what they want. they don't necessarily have the support of the american people. i don't think the american people who are increasingly worried about the problems of homelessness want to see devastating cuts to housing assistance. i don't think our seniors who are feeling the pinch of inflation want to see cuts to social security and medicare. i am always going to scrutinize taxpayer dollars, trying to make sure that it is having a

stronger stable economy, a more fair and just society. i am not willing to just use the budget as a tool to just give republicans more leverage and more authority here. they don't have the democratic authority which comes from the american people. >> no doubt the public doesn't want these types of cuts. if these cuts are attached to it and you met one of the -- do you think the better option would be for the president to invoke the 14th amendment to raise the debt limit if it came to the? >> i am sure the white house is in the business right now of trying to think that through and understand what that tool would look like. it's not something that we have done before. i do think the best path forward is for congress to come up with a strong solution here, for us to do our job on a bipartisan basis. the 14th amendment exists for a reason. it is there in part to make sure that these kinds of politics and these kinds of games are not played, that the

united states meets its obligations. i think it is a backstop. i don't think we are there yet. i think the white house counsel is very busy this weekend taking a look at the 14th amendment. >> you are the only single mom with three kids in congress. what is your advice on this mother's day to moms out there who are trying to juggle a lot but they don't feel like they have the time to engage in our political system? you do, but you found it. what would you say to them? >> well, i would just say that part of being a mom is caring for your kids. it's making sure that your kids have a bright future. we can't do that unless we have a political system which is dealing with the problems of corruption unless we have an economy which is strong and stable and globally competitive. it's going to provide jobs for our kids unless we are addressing inequalities, racial injustices which have held back particularly black and brown and indigenous kids. i think part of being a mom, when you think about the core duty of providing an amazing

future for your kids, we can't do that without leaning into politics. >> congresswoman katie porter, happy mother's day and thank you so much for joining me this morning. up next, it has been almost a year since roe v. wade was overturned. republican presidential hopefuls are still not quite sure what exactly they want to say about abortion. my thoughts on a whole lot of stumbling and bumbling after this break. umbling and bumbling after this break this break e over $1000. what are you going to do with it? i could use a new sign. with t-mobile for business, save more than $1000 versus verizon. and with our price lock guarantee, we'll never raise your rate plan. ever. subway just keeps upping their game. break it down candace. just look at the smashed avocado... made with only haas avocado and sea salt. ingredients like these make the subway series elite.

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candidates were pretty consistent on the issue of abortion. here's how some of them sounded as recently as 2016. >> i am the most pro-life governor on this stage. >> all human life is worthy of protection. >> i believe we should protect every human life. >> do you believe -- yes or no? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> it was basically a race to the right. less than one year since roe v. wade was overturned, the 2024 republican field is a lot less certain. take donald trump. he's facing a crowd of republican voters this week. he was pressed repeatedly on whether or not he would sign a federal abortion ban into law. you might think that would be a simple question for the guy who nominated more than half of the justices who voted to overturn roe v. wade, but it was not. >> would you sign a federal abortion ban into law?

>> but i will do is negotiate so people are happy. >> you would sign a federal abortion ban? >> i said this, i said this. i want to do what is right. we are looking. >> if they send it to your desk, would you sign it? >> some people are at six weeks, some people are at three -- >> where is president trump? >> president trump is going to make a determination about what he thinks is good for the country. >> i don't know about you but i am exhausted just listening to that. there is nikki haley. after teasing a major policy speech, their definition, not ours last month and promising to talk directly and openly about abortion, this was the best she could do. >> i do believe there is a federal role on abortion. whether we can save more lives nationally depends on doing what no one else has it on to date and that is define consensus. that is what i will strive to

do. >> that is neither direct nor open nor an actual policy proposal. when she was asked about her position again this morning, she gave an equally confusing response about trying to find a national consensus. there is also senator tim scott who was recently asked a pretty straightforward question. >> do you support a federal ban on abortions? >> i would simply say that the fact of the matter is when you look at the issue of abortion, one of the challenges that we continue to have as we have these restrictive conversations without broadening the scope and taking a look at the fact that -- i never walk away from the. when you look at the issues on abortion, i start with the various important conversations i have about -- when i was listening to janet yellen, the secretary of the treasury, talk about increasingly labor force participation for african american women who are in poverty by having abortions, i think we are just having the wrong conversations. >> i'm not sure what that was.

when you are asked a simple question about abortion, i am pretty sure janet yellen should not be in the answer. senator scott later said he would sign the most conservative pro-life legislation but those initial stumbles were pretty telling. there is florida governor ron desantis who had this to say. guys, do we have the clip? let's play that desantis clip. oh, wait, we have nothing to play. he quietly signed a six-week abortion ban for florida into law behind closed doors in the dark of night. this is not someone who is typically camera shy, by the way. he holds press conferences on a regular basis to attack mickey and minnie. given all of this, if you are out there asking yourself, why are these murky, confusing responses? the answer is abortion is a losing issue for republicans. they know it. guess what? people don't like their rights being taken away.

go figure! nearly six out of ten adults, 58%, say abortion should be legal all or most of the time. that is according to the latest nbc news poll. look at wisconsin. a winning candidate's pro-choice message flipped the balance of the state supreme court. even in kansas, yes, reliably red kansas, voters decided to keep abortion legal in their state. voters have weighed in again and again and have forced republicans to walk a razor thin line. they are basically trying to appease numbers of their antiabortion base while not alienating the majority of the country. when it comes to the politics of this issue. my next guest says that they are scared. they are absolutely scared. my conversation with alexis mcgill johnson, they ceo planned parenthood, and a key player in the fight for reproductive rights is next. player in the fight fo reproductive rights is next. in' high , you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,...

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reporting lately about ethics

scandals surrounding the supreme court from a luxury vacations and private boarding school tuition paid for by a republican billionaire, you may have heard, to concerns over the business ties of a justice's spouse to questionable real estate transactions. we have really seen the run of things over there. the steady drip of revelations along with the supreme court decision last summer to overturn the constitutional right to an abortion has created renewed energy around calls for court reform in congress and from a range of groups out there. right now, right here, we can announce that a major forces joining in on those calls, planned parenthood. the organization is declaring its stance today on expanding the supreme court and put in term limits in place for supreme court justices. planned parenthood is also pushing for ethics and transparency requirements for justices among other reforms for lower courts. this is a big deal. i spent some time with alexis

mcgill johnson at her beautiful home in new york city. here are some of our wide ranging conversations. >> hi! thank you so much for coming! >> great to be here. should we go sit down? >> let's go. you are now president of planned parenthood at a time less than a year after roe v. wade was overturned. what has been the most challenging thing for women's health care providers that you hear from them in the wake of that? >> you know, to not be able to provide care to your patients when you are trained and prepared and you have the ability and the facilities available to you to provide care. a lawyer, a government official,

governor is telling you that you can no longer provide that care. you have patients who are sitting in your exam room who literally are desperate. they have no idea what they will do. they are crying. you still hear it in many health centers across the country. you still just hear the providers catching the tears of their patients, getting on phones and helping them navigate out of state, reaching into their desk drawers to find snacks because they're going to get on the road and drive however many hours to an appointment. that is the way in which the providers are showing up and know that they are providing the care envy and deny the ability to do so. >> it has been interesting to watch the republican primary. a number of these candidates can't seem to decide where they are on the issue of abortion access. they are struggling with this. this to me is a little bit of a

positive development, maybe a strange thing to say, because they are not all clearly coming out and saying they are opposed to it. how do you read that? how have you -- how have many of these candidates responded to questions? >> i think they are scared. [laughter] i think they are absolutely scared. they understand that not only is this a moment that we are in -- we are in a public health crisis completely. the momentum is on our side, right? what we have seen not just in the midterms where we won in a bipartisan fashion in kansas and kentucky and montana and michigan -- you don't get those kinds of returns under a democracy without bringing people from all sides, either party, into unity around protecting reproductive rights and freedoms. >> there have been a number of eye-popping revelations about the supreme court and members of the supreme court and

questionable ethical decision-making. >> yes. >> in recent weeks. planned parenthood is calling for structural reforms to the court and the country. i may have answered my own question, but why now? >> you know, we have really been, i think, particularly with the attack on abortion rights, been very clear that these are attacks on our democratic rights and freedoms. i think oftentimes we engage -- they are ones that have voting rights bans. connecting the dots there about how we are living in the space. the reality is that the court has been fully captured in so many areas. we have this lone texas judge who can now bring cases. you can bring cases to the circuit which is also conservative. the supreme court has a conservative majority. >> find a court you want to hear your case. >> exactly.

that's a way to circumvent the ways in which popularly elected opinions and decisions are made. we think it's incredibly important now to both name the fact that we need to see expanded courts from the lower courts all the way up to the supreme court. we need to see term limits. we need to see ethical reforms, raising questions about the fact that these people with lifetime appointments that are very much out of step with where the majority of people are on a variety of issues. you know, the legitimacy is in question. i think it's really important to call for structural reforms. that is what actually sustains progress. it's one thing to call for a justice to step down for whatever reason. the reality is that the way in which the system has been captured requires us to engage in a structural reform in a different way.

>> so, i know you are a runner. >> yes. >> when you wake up on a saturday at, what do you do first? >> the first thing i do is put on my running stuff. no matter what else, if i don't put it on and i just immediately go and get dressed for the day, i know i will not actually get a run in. >> are you a coffee drinker? >> i am a coffee drinker. that's actually the very first thing i do. >> coffee then run? >> yes. my bedroom is upstairs from the kitchen. i have a coffee maker upstairs. [laughter] >> that's the kind of coffee addiction hourly to. a special thanks to alexis mcgill johnson for letting me spend time with her in her home. next, a conversation with a very special mother's day guest, my mom. we talked about what raising three girls was like and the biggest differences between being a mom and being a grandma. that is right after a quick break. is right after a quic

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we are sitting right out of the studio where i tape the show. >> i know. >> i thought with mother's day this weekend, who better to ask about being a mom than my own mom? >> thank you. i'm happy to be here. >> be honest. >> i'm going to try. >> okay. there are three of us. you raised three daughters. what was the hardest part about raising three girls? >> it was amazing and wonderful. each of you was a special miracle. it makes me want to cry. i guess it the biggest challenge and what i thought about was to allow the space for each of you to be calm and continue to become who you were meant to be. each of you is an individual. i used to say that there was a big world out there to compete in. i didn't want you to compete with each other. that was what i promoted. that was my mantra. i think it worked out. >> in addition to being my

mother, you have also been a family therapist for several decades. what do you think is harder today about being a mother and raising kids than when you were raising kids? >> the basics of parenting have not changed. loving your child, the child you have, not a child you expected to have or wished you had sometimes. that's what needs to be instilled. it's not easy today to be a child. it's not easy to live. there is polarization and mean-spiritedness. the principles that were basic than are still basic. respecting your child helps you to lead them and guide them in the way you want them to. if you want them to respect you, you have to respect them. >> you are the grandmother of five grandkids. what is the difference between

that and being the mother? >> it is a wonderful difference in many ways. being a mother continues to be wonderful. they can have anything they want. [laughter] they know that. i can say to them, you know, what can i get you? what would you like? have to desserts, whatever you want. anything goes. it is beautiful, allowing them to become who they are. encouraging who they are is an important role for me. i love doing that. i see the uniqueness in each of them. i am thrilled and excited to watch them grow. >> i love you, mom. thank you for spending some time. a special thank you to my mom who, as you just saw there, is a unique combination of wise, fierce, funny, tough, and a

deeply kind. she has always been a rock to me and to my sisters and always told us to keep our feet planted on the ground and to hold our heads high. pretty good advice. she taught me so much about being a mom myself as well. i want to say thank you to my mother-in-law marianne, a retired first grade teacher who is such a rock in our lives as well and to vivian matthew. thanks for making me a mom. a very happy mother's day to all of my mom squad across the country. that does it for me today. we will be back here next sunday at noon eastern. be sure to follow the show on twitter, tiktok, and instagram. stay right where you are. there is much more news ahead on msnbc. much more news ahea on msnbc