>> governor, i need you to be quick, but you're a pro business governor. do restrictions like this hurt business? >> you know, lately the business community is trying to avoid all social issues. the large corporate people are rather remaining silent compared to seven, eight years ago on other social issues. it's kind of interesting, the major corporations are staying silent. >> okay. thanks so much. yamiche alcindor and former governor pat mccrory. we should mention that katy tur will speak with north carolina governor roy cooper today at 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." andrea will be back tomorrow. remember to follow the show online and on facebook and on twitter @mitchellreports. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc

headquarters in new york city. call it a perfect political storm. fresh off his headline-grabbing trip through iowa, governor ron desantis is back on his home turf, again throwing shade at donald trump. his pitch to voters just an hour ago, pick me if you want someone who won't spend all their time on cable news and social media. >> for me it's like okay, what's that true north? you obviously have to win or you don't get a ticket to the dance. once you do that, how are you going to be able to bring about big change to make people's lives better. president biden's surprising new southern state strategy. why his campaign is weighing a big money bid to win states like florida and north carolina. is he nervous his political firewall from 2020 won't hold? the surprising at the stougt earn border. crossings defying expectations for a third straight day, down to less than 5,000 on sunday,

the lowest daily rate in two years. we'll go live to texas in just a minute. we start with ron desantis, making the most of a golden political opportunity handed to him arguably by none other than donald trump who canceled the rally in iowa citing bad weather warnings. desantis had the state and pretty much all of the media attention to himself. after speaking to party leaders and meeting with voters in sioux center and des moines, he made an impromptu stop down the street from where trump's event was spoepd to be held. >> thank you all for coming out. it's a beautiful night. it's been a great day for us. >> a beautiful night. in fact, desantis was so well received on saturday he was still on the front pages of "the des moines register" this morning. the timing couldn't be better for him.

the governor expected to expand campaign operations in florida today, a move widely seen as the precursor to a white house run. nbc's vaughn hillyard was in iowa. natasha korecky was also in iowa and matthew dowd is msnbc's senior political analyst. ron, first of all, lots of questions about whether trump canceled because of a tornado warning or maybe concerns about a small crowd. i wonder if you have any intel on that. also, whatever the reason, did trump's move allow desantis to maybe build some momentum in iowa? >> chris, i was there at the rally, where it was supposed to be held, with hundreds of other folks who gathered. yes, there was, in fact, a tornado watch lasting into the evening. of course, that storm never materialized, but donald trump's plane was grounded in florida. that all said, it hits at the heart of the question. can donald trump this go around and the next nine months just fly into iowa for a rally and

fly out? guess who was on the ground? myself, other reporters, thousands of iowans as well as ron desantis who already made his way into the state by that point. he not only hit sioux city and cedar rapids, he hit des moines, stood on the table alongside his wife and is beginning to make the case through retail politics that they should turn to him instead of donald trump. he also announced that a third of iowa republican legislators endorse him here this weekend. this is notable. i was talking to iowa republicans who say it is going to be an uphill battle to eclipse trump in the state of iowa. the only way to do it is run like ted cruz and rick santorum in 2012. that's to get to all the counties and make the case. that's what's going to be determined in the months ahead. >> thank you so much for that, vaughn. matthew, desantis hasn't had a whole lot of opportunities to have the political playing field

to himself. i wonder if you think that at least for a moment this weekend provided him a chance to kind of seize the opportunity. >> i think it's a very brief moment. i think he's actually making a smart move. if this was a national republican primary held simultaneous, he would have no chance. his only chance is to have a surprising showing in their earliest caucus which is iowa and take that as momentum into new hampshire and hopefully build a national thing as a step-by-step process, kind of the old way it used to be done before everybody started running in these nationalized primaries. so i think it's smart. i think his concern will be whenever him and donald trump are anywhere near the same territory who gets all the oxygen. right now the only way ron desantis got oxygen was because he was there by himself. maybe the strategy is he just

camps out in iowa. if i were advising him, i would basically say that's the thing to do, because that's the only way you're going to get oxygen, is because in the days that donald trump are not there, you at least have a chance. but one other thing he's going to need to do. he can't just do soft attacks on donald trump. in order for him to have room in this race, it's going to have to be much more harsher attacks on donald trump in order to find a wedge where he can win iowa. >> i want to ask you a little about that in a second. but if i can go to you, natasha, there's a chance, which is what matthew speaks of, but you have to have, right, interest. i wonder with the polls nationally as well as iowa showing trump as the prohibitive favorite, are iowa voters open to a trump alternative? >> well, we're certainly seeing signs of that. case in point was this weekend. there were two events that

desantis set up ahead of time. both of them were sold out. had nearly 700 people showing up in sioux center. i talked to a lot of those voters afterward. they were really impressed. they had rave reviews for ron desantis. they liked his message. they thought he was a winner. these are people who told me, hey, like donald trump, i voted for donald trump, i still support him, but there's a lot about donald trump that i kind of don't like anymore and i'm ready for someone new. anecdotally, the sold-out events -- just talking to the party chair. the party chair said the same thing. he said at this point in time, that he rarely -- he's rarely seen caucus-goers, potential caucus-goers lock in on a candidate. there's room for desantis. it's going to take quite something else for him.

he took his role very seriously this weekend. we're also seeing other signals where there was a slate of legislators that came out and supported ron desantis. he's gotten some decent sized endorsements there. again, people on the ground showing up and giving those rave reviews. ron desantis putting in the work this week. he did his first pizza ranch of iowa. >> always got to do that. that is like basic iowa 101, you've got to go do that. matt, i want to play part of what else desantis had to say this morning back in florida. he's echoing things he's been saying about the party. it's probably the closest he's gotten to taking a shot at donald trump. take a listen. >> i didn't see a red wave across this country. so i think the party has developed a culture of losing. i think there's not

accountability. and i think in florida we showed what it takes to not just win, win big and then deliver big. >> back to your point about not being willing to take on trump directly, is there really such a big price to pay if you say, look, donald trump was a great president and he delivered a lot for the american people, but we know from the polls people are looking for a change. you get the same kind of policies without the baggage if you vote for me. let's not forget the fact that he's lost. he's lost. he lost the senate, he lost the presidency. is there really that much of a threat in saying something like that? >> well, that's a great question. you and i have have this rational argument and say no, there's not that much of a threat. for some reason republicans are

scared skittish of taking anything -- donald trump's personality favorabilities among republicans is still extremely high which means you don't want to personally attack him because they will back him because they still like the guy. you can make an argument and say donald trump did a good job as president, but he's lost a bunch of the races, he's dragging the republican party down. it's time we win these races, and ild' do number of x, y and z policies, but donald trump is a loser for america -- if you want joe biden again as president of the united states, nominate donald trump, and that's the biggest scare you can have in this. they're going to have to do it. he can't do these remarks, desantis do these remarks and not mention his name. he needs to brand donald trump nice gierks give him his metal, move on to people who can win. he needs to say the words

"donald trump loser" together. >> i want to play something from some trump supporters in iowa. they went and showed up for the event that didn't happen. i thought it was interesting what they have to say. >> i think the world of most of them. i think they're great people. he's proven himself. >> trump is the only one for me. i drove 4 1/2 hours here just to see him. i love ron desantis because i have a house in florida. i think it's a great governor, but it's not his time right now. >> i think desantis is very capable and i think he's a perfect possibility for 2028. >> there are more than a few analysts, matthew, who say maybe this isn't the perfect time for him. maybe he should wait to 2028.

that's what people said to barack obama, wait. but what do you think? >> people try to advise these things in a vacuum, especially voters like to say these things. i don't think you can wait. i actually think in many ways desantis has waited too long to engage in this because donald trump, as you mentioned earlier, occupies a lot of the space a lot of the time. the more he does that, the more he builds momentum. people say let's run him again, he stood by us, let's stand by him in the course of this. but i think you cannot just sort of let donald trump have the room in this. let me add one other complicated part for ron desantis in this. ron desantis needs to be one-on-one with donald trump especially in iowa. donald trump is going to get his 40 or 45% of the caucus-goers no matter what. if that other part of the base is split up between nikki haley

and asa hutchinson and potentially mike pence, then ron desantis has a very difficult time getting to the margin he needs to win this thing, but i think that's the question. i don't think 2028 got ron desantis -- it's going to be time for him. i think it's going to be past time. you have to strike while the iron is hot, as all politicians who have been successful have done. he may have waited too long in the attempt to take this race away from donald trump. >> oh, boy. natasha korecky, thank you for your great reporting from iowa. matthew, we'll see you again in just a bit. the number of migrants at the southern border is continuing to drop. we'll go live to el paso to explain why that's happening in 60 seconds. why that's happening 60 seconds e sweet onion teriyaki, chuck? man, this aint messin', it's perfectin'! with marinated chicken and double cheese. sweet and savory... ...kinda like you and me, chuck. bye, peyton. try the refreshed favorites at subway today. identical twins bethany and stephanie both struggled

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officials expected an increase when the policy ended, but that didn't happen. yesterday they detained just over 4,000 people. that's less than half of what we saw every day last week. here is homeland security chief mayor kiss on whether those numbers will hold. >> it is still early. we're in day three. we've been planning for this position for months and month. it's extraordinary what we've done over the past 18 months or so. >> joined by george solis and nbc security correspondent victoria ainsley. george, what about the thousands already released into these border towns. let's look ahead. what's the plan for them? >> reporter: chris, those not in detention centers are staying in shelters in el paso or some staying along the streets, those that simply don't trust of being inside the shelters. many of them playing the waiting game, waiting to see when

they'll have that opportunity to present their case for asylum before a judge. many of them using that difficult-to-use app. saying some cases they'll get appointments, but not for several years, 2026, 2027. as far as 2030 i heard in one case. the other challenge is when they get these appointments, they rt necessarily here in the region. some saying their scheduled appointments are in towns that are thousands and thousands of miles away. some families are left with the difficult decision to stay in and around a border town, hop on a bus or get to a sanctuary city where they can maybe find shelter, some kind of help to get them settled in these communities. that's being let with lawsuits and controversy. many migrants feel that they're stuck between policy and politics. what's happening, one grandmother i spoke with over the weekend said she was

traveling with her 4-year-old grandson and they were separated. she's left with the decision whether or not she and her husband move on to the next city, try to get settled or wait to see if they'll be reunited with the 4 yard line grandchild. these families going through trials and tribulations to get here and still don't know what's going on. >> julia, meanwhile, the associated press talks about detained migrants waiting in the heat for days, limited food and water. local papers expressed concern about the lack of enough food for migrants who are there one woman told a.p. she touched foot on u.s. soil hours before title 42 expired. she two days later still had not been processed. what do we know about the backlog? how does it look at u.s. facilities right now? >> there's a difference between

those processed and placed in facilities and those in limbo. when i was down in el paso, there was a no man's land between where people would cross over the rio grande and where people would be met by that border wall. hundreds lined up before title 42 lifted. those waiting in extreme heat, they're waiting for the chance to come in and be processed. what we're looking for because of the impact it will have on border towns as well as cities like new york, chicago and other places where the migrants are headed is to see what the capacity is like inside the border patrol processing centers. reporting from another news organization that we haven't verified said 22,000 people in border patrol custody. that's still over the capacity of 18,000, but less than the 27,000 we were reporting on last week. one of the senior officials at dhs did a call with reporters saying border patrol custody is

way down but didn't give exact numbers. those numbers inside detention filleds are so important, because if they get too crowded, they'll have to start releasing more. even if the overall border traffic goes down, because it takes people so much longer to process migrants, figuring out whether or not they're allowed to stay here under the new or the return to the old norms for processing migrants, they could become very well backed up. title 42, even if you had a large number of people, they could be so quickly turned back around because there was a blanket denial of asylum. >> julia, it may be an unfair question. on friday mayorkas spoke talking about all the additional resources they were putting at the border. is there any sense of how long it might take for all the new folks headed to the border to get things up and running and we'll know whether or not really this is a horrific backlog or

something they are moving forward with? >> i'm waiting until the end of the week. i've been working long hours and will keep working until the end of the week to see if we're at a sustained low here. they only have 72 hours generally or else they're in violation of a federal court mandate to clear people out of border patrol custody. if they get to the point where they have too many people, taking them too long to process, they'll have to start releasing more people with notices to appear in court. they've been enjoined from releasing them without a court date. if the numbers go up and how long it takes to process, i think what we're hearing from d hnchss officials is it's still early. the last thing they want to do is take a victory lap on their planning only to have the numbers soar in a few days. >> your knowledge of this issue is so deep, it's impossible to

stump you. thank you, julia. george solis, thank you. we appreciate both of you. coming up, i'll talk to the mayor of el paso about what is needed to take care of the migrants in his city. the biden strategy for 2024, the maybe unexpected states that team biden thinks they might be able to flip. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc

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look at a strategy by the biden campaign. new reporting in "the washington post" is that team biden is looking to compete in north carolina and test the ground in florida, home to the top two gop candidates. biden lost both of those states in 2020, and they are two of the most expensive states for presidential campaigns to compete in. what's behind the strategy? "washington post" michael sheerer is one of the authors. matthew dowd is also back with us. michael, does the biden team think they have a good shot in both of these states? >> i think they really think they have a good shot in north carolina. they're a little more provisional on florida at this point. governor ron desantis won by 13 points there. that suggests the state is not a toss-up. i think they believe by investing now in florida, and the dnc and biden are up with that in that state, they can

narrow the polls and force republicans to invest there which can pay dividends further down. the difference is that republicans need that state to become president. democrats don't. that's why i think democrats see it to their advantage to invest right now. when it comes to north carolina, it's a different calculation. that is a very closely competitive state. we've had a number of elections now where it's basically three points or less. democrats have not won the state since 2008, but you just had a 12-week -- you're going to have later this summer when republicans probably override a veto from the governor, a 12-week abortion ban in the state. there's an electoral college reason for investing in north carolina. three states in 2020 were won by biden by less than 1%, wisconsin, georgia and arizona. if he loses all three of those states, he loses the presidency.

if he wins north carolina and loses all those states, he still wins. >> how do you view this, matthew? north carolina legitimately a battleground state, florida more an expand-the-match state. we saw that expanding the map didn't work so well for hillary clinton. >> being the guy nor president bush in 2000 and 2004 that finalized the list of electoral states, there's a number of people, whether in campaigns or outside, that constantly push states. i remember in 2000 there was many people in the campaign that wanted to put new jersey and north carolina on the list of target states. i vetoed that throughout -- >> i'm going to call that a good move on your part, matthew. >> i thought it was a fool's errand. i think florida, i they they're acting that way.

my guess is florida doesn't end on the target list at that point. north carolina i think is a very, very smart move. it's got a democratic governor. the movements in the state are in the right direction towards the democrats, the demographics. florida is the exact opposite. florida is moving away from the democrats. the actual state they should put in front of florida honestly that's moving, though slowly, in a better direction in texas. joe biden did better than hillary clinton in texas. he did worse than hillary clinton did in florida. the races for a statewide office in texas were closer in texas than in florida in 2022. these are the conversations that people have. i would be shocked in the last two months of the campaign that the biden campaign invests serious amounts of money in florida. who knows? sometimes people get convinced of their own follow. if you win florida, you've

already won the presidency. if joe biden is carrying florida, he doesn't need florida. >> michael, look, in the realm of let's try to be competitive in new jersey and california, every state wants the money and the attention. you also have to be a realist even in this world which i think is very different from when matthew was running a campaign. there's so much money out there. having said that, i wonder what republicans think about this strategy. i'm sure on the surface of it it's like bring it on. are they nervous about north carolina? are they even a little bit nervous about florida? >> i don't detect any nervousness about florida right now. i do think there's concern about north carolina. i think they consider it a battleground state. there was significant investment by republican base in 2022 which is a sign of their concern. these are both very expensive states. you mentioned that. if democrats were to go in

seriously to a state like florida in the final three months, you're talking $200 million plus. a little cheaper in north carolina, but not much. a significant amount of money you'd have to raise and spend. democrats right now, we don't know what the president's fund-raising numbers have been since his announcement. they're quite confident they'll have upwards of $2 billion to play with at the end of this. if we look back at the 2022 cycle, republicans have at least recently struggled to raise as much money as democrats, especially in small dollar donations. it may be that by next year, democrats find themselves with a real spending advantage and then they get to figure out how to play with it. i think the other thing worth mentioning here, there have been other presidential cycles where that discussion about california and new jersey, there's no discussion right now beyond these two states in terms of expansion opportunities. the biden campaign is focused on

the states he won in 2020. they're aware a lot of those victories were incredibly narrow victories. it's not at all clear at this point that georgia or arizona are going to go into the democratic column. a state like wisconsin was very narrow and had a split statewide decision in the 2022 cycle. we're not in one of those cycles where people are talking about the biggest electoral college battleground map that we've ever seen. michael sharer, having sp a lot of time in texas over the last two presidential cycles, there are a lot of democrats there happy to hear what you had to say today. with a key meeting hours away, president biden is asked about the state of debt ceiling negotiations. what's needed to get a deal done and avoid a devastating default? that's next on "chris jansing reports." that's next on "chris jansing reports.

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president biden and top four congressional leaders are gearing up for a second round of debt discussions at the white house tomorrow. despite reports of productive staff level meetings over the past week, neither biden or house speaker kevin mccarthy reported progress this morning. >> any update on the budget negotiations? >> no.

>> we're far apart. it just seems they want to look like they're in a meeting, but they're not talking anything serious. >> nbc's allie raffa is with the president in wilmington, delaware. from capitol hill, jake sherman, co-founder of punchbowl news and an msnbc political contributor. jake, how much of what we just heard from speaker mccarthy is like it is? how much might be posturing for his caucus? what do we know about where we stand, these discussions? >> somewhere in the middle probably, chris. these discussions have been fruitful to the extent discussions can be fruitful with a bunch of people in the room. typically these negotiations as i've covered them are one representative from the white house and maybe one or two from capitol hill. they've had 15 in the room for the last couple days. they met saturday on capitol hill and today in long sessions to try to clear everything out in advance of this meeting with prince pals tomorrow at the

white house between joe biden and the congressional leaders. here is the issue, chris. time is of the essence. they really need a deal over the next couple days to move things through the house and senate which will take some time. people will not be happy no matter what the deal is. there will be angst and disappointment among the far ends of the political spectrum. they have been somewhat fruitful. they're at least talking. they're not moving quickly toward a deal. i wouldn't expect that they would given that these are staff and not principal. we'll have to see where this ends up tomorrow. the alternative is not great either. the alternative is a debt default which no one appears to want at this point because the debt ceiling -- by the way, we expect another update from treasury in the next day or so about when the nation will default. the alternative is not great because everyone wants to avoid the default.

>> allie, biden leaves wednesday for the g7 meeting in japan. if there's no real progress, he'll face a lot of criticism over flying to asia with default looming. tell us what you're hearing from administration officials. i also heard we just heard from the president himself. >> reporter: that's right, chris. remember, he's not just going to asia while going overseas for this g7 summit. the tail end of this trip is supposed to end in australia for another summit. he's expected to return to d.c. with just about a week before this estimated as early as june default deadline takes place. that's a deadline that both the president and these top four congressional leaders have all said that they acknowledge and respect. despite what we heard from speaker mccarthy this morning, the president is saying he is optimistic because of the progress that we saw sources are telling us and the president told us yesterday.

in the meetings that took place over this weekend, a meeting taking place today. as you said, he spoke a few min minutes ago in philadelphia. take a listen. >> mr. president, what's your message for the speaker? mr. president, have you scheduled a meeting with the speaker yet for tomorrow, wednesday? >> yes. >> what day? >> tomorrow. >> reporter: so that meeting confirmed to happen tomorrow before the president leaves on this president the next day. sources familiar with these talks say there has been some common ground, some compromise reached, but the big question here remains how quickly can that common ground, that compromise become a solid deal. >> jake, there's pressure on both sides, right?

the president wants to at least go to the g7 knowing they're nearing a deal on the basics. mccarthy is under pressure from the right wing of his party to get spending cuts in exchange for a debt limit hike. do we know exactly what kind of deal mccarthy could make or would be willing to make? where are going to be the really tough sticking points? >> the deal he wants is a deal that caps the budget for the next several years. republicans want a longer budget deal. democrats probably want a shorter term one. he wants permitting reform, to reform the process by which the government approves clean energy and fossil fuel and all sorts of projects around the country. this is something democrats have agreed on in the past. he wants to claw bako individual money, about $60 billion unspent covid money rattling around in the system. he wants to reclaim that money, so to speak. there's been a lot of budget deals over the last 10 or 15 years.

this is probably the most simple budget deal because there's not much as regards programatic changes. this is relatively simple. you know, chris, the big question is what will the right and what will republicans broadly speaking, see as a win. it is divided government. they do need to raise the debt ceiling. in divided government, these kinds of things are difficult, and u you're not going to get what you want, won't be able to cut several hundred billion to a trillion dollars. that's not where our government is. it's going to look something like that. republicans want to put in new work requirements for social safety net problems. that's probably not going to get done. democrats are digging in their heels against that. that's the broad outlines of what we should expect in the next week or so. >> jake sherman and nbc's allie raffa, thank you. up next, house oversight chair james comer with a wild

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opponents, both running on election fraud claims. adams took office in 2020, worked to expanderly voting and mail-in voting. now he's vowed that he won't play ball with election deniers, quote, if you cave and give in to these conspiracy theories, all it does is validate them. nbc's jane timm is with me now. what do we know about these other two candidates? >> the candidates are running on a lot of conspiracy theories and voter fraud claims. steven nipper said he saw election fraud online, really baseless claims he cannot prove and is arguing this is why he should be put in this position and arguing for specific policy changes, pulling out of a database that helps secretaries of state keep their voter rolls up to date. michael adams was so candid, he

said to do my job right, i have to ignore these theories. i'm going to stay out of the nonsense he told me. absolutely incredibly candid about the realities of the sort of republican primary environment right now tochlt do the job he's taken an oath to do, he thinks he might lose his job. >> nbc's jane timm, we'll keep a close eye on that. thank you very much. breaking news out of the office of jerry connelly, that there's been an attack on his district office. let me go now to nbc's ryan nobles. what can you tell me about what happened at the congressman's office? >> reporter: this is a very scary situation, an incident that took place at his district office in fairfax, virginia. that's northern where i'm stand now. according to connelly, an individual broke into his office while his staffers were there, and then had a baseball bat. he was looking for the

congressman. he actually specifically asked for congressman connolly, and committed an act of violence against two members of his staff. this was so serious that both of these staffers for congressman connolly were sent to the hospital with what is being described as nonlife threatening injuries. now the fairfax city police department has already tweeted that they were responding to this incident and that two people were taken to the hospital, confirming what congressman connolly is saying about this particular situation. the congressman goes on to say he has the best team in congress and his district office staff make themselves available to constituents and members of the public every single day. chris, this is an example of the increase that we've seen in threats against members of congress and the actual acts of violence that happened against members of congress and their staff as the polarization of

politics becomes increasingly intense. we're seeing it play out in realtime here today with this incident in jerry connolly's district office. >> at least the district offices i have been in and it's been a few years because i haven't been on the campaign trail, but honestly, that's what they're meant to do, right, they are open. they're meant for constituents to be able to come in, to have meetings, to ask questions or air their concerns. i mean, have there been incidents where they've stepped up security around district offices that you know of or is it pretty much business as usual? >> reporter: to your official point, you're right that these constituent offices in many ways are the backbone of the work of members of congress. a big part of a congressman's responsibility is serving to a

certain extent to the federal government, helping constituents with things like veterans services, passport renewal, a wide range of issues that the federal government deals with. if you're having a hard time with the agency, often a member of the congress, person's staff can help you get that process moving forward. they personally have their offices as open as possible to the public so they can deal with those issues. to your second point, the answer is yes, because of this, you know, pop in the amount of threats, capital police have been concerned about the vulnerability about members of congress and their staff and their district offices. they have increased funding to harden those particular places to allow for better security, and in some cases, members of congress have reached into their own campaign and personal funds to increase security of their own above and beyond their federal allocation.

this is something that members of congress are certainly worried about and what we're seeing happening here today in northern virginia is a real life example of that, and it is something that every member of congress has to be concerned about. >> in the words of congressman connolly himself, it is unconscionable and devastating. thank you very much for the update. appreciate it. the government is demanding a massive recall of 67 million air bags, how the company involved is responding. what happens now and what should you do if you've got one of the cars? that's next on "chris jansing reports." cars that's next on "chris jansing reports.

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a major legal battle is brewing right now as federal regulators demand an enormous recall, one that would impact 67 million defective air bags. the company that makes them is pushing back. here's nbc's emilie ikeda. >> u.s. auto safety regulators are pumping the brakes on

potentially dangerous air bag inflators. in a new letter, the national highway traffic safety administration or nhtsa demanded arc automotive to recall inflators that posed a risk of death or injury. >> if there was extra metal in there, the metal, as opposed to cloth comes out and that metal has been able to puncture people in the neck and face. >> reporter: the incidents that have occurred have been severe, including a driver's death in michigan in 2021. but a potential legal battle is brewing with arc refusing to recall such a sweeping number of its inflators manufactured before 2018. 67 million inflators, put that number into perspective for me. >> there are 284 million vehicles in the united states, so it is a huge impact in terms of the vehicle population in the

united states. if this is a recall of 67 million air bag inflators, it would be one of the largest ever in the united states. >> reporter: arc argues just seven incidents in the u.s. over a decade and a half do not support a finding that a systemic and prevalent defect exists across this population. the air bag inflators are used by at least a dozen auto makers, including general motors which just announced it's voluntarily recalling 1 million vehicles equipped with arc inflators, including chevrolet traverse, and buick enclay models, out of an abundance of caution. if a standoff drives on, nhtsa could take the company and try to force a recall. emilie ikeda, nbc news. we have a lot to cover in our second hour of "chris jansing reports," let's get right to