in the early days of my microsoft my office overlooked the parking lot and i would keep track of who was leaving early and who was staying late. but as i got older, and especially once they became a father, i realized that both in terms of doing your best work and having a great life, that intensity was not always appropriate. don't wait as long as i did to learn this lesson. take time to nurture your relationships, to celebrate successes, and to recover from losses. take a break when you need to, take it easy on the people around you,, and they need it to. and before you begin the next stage of your lives, take a moment and have some fun. >> now that is some advice we can all use to take us off the

air tonight. and on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. tomorrow >> thank you for joining us this. evening so often plans are up in the air, but you can go ahead and you can circle this state in pan, june 1st. that is the deadline for congress to reach a deal or the u.s. is plunged into financial catastrophe. it's an important day, and man it is really coming, up really, around the corner. there was some hope that the debt ceiling deadline could be pushed off through financial hocus pocus, but no such luck. today said treasury secretary janet yellen confirmed that it was june 1st or we'll go over the cliff. and yes, today is may 16th. and after the type of person

who likes to do math in your head, you may look at those two days and say oh no commerce congress only has 15 days to get this sorted out. but he would be wrong. because these are the days that the house is actually in session this month. and these are the days that the senate is in session this month. which means that unless that changes sometime soon, unless someone calls an audible on those congressional resources, then the house and senate have somewhere between 6 to 7 working days to hammer this all out. so six or seven days, not a ton of time. now panic about that deadline does not seem to have set in yet, strangely. not in washington not on wall street, where the markets remain relatively hoe harm and definitely not in the pages of certain newspapers, where this approaching catastrophe is being treated, sort of like it is business as usual. here's a

quote from the op-ed pages of the new york times this week. >> house republicans'insistence on negotiations and compromise is not hostage taking. it is the ordinary stuff of politics. the two sides can posture all they want but in the end congress and the president have to reach an agreement. that is not a bad thing. it is a good thing. okay, yes. the paper of record published those words in its opinion section. this is not being reported as impartial analysis. it is someone's opinion. but, whether or not republicans are taking the country hostage here, it isn't really a matter of opinion. it is a matter of fact. even republicans know this. back in 2011, when republicans first decided that they would put a gun to the head of the american economy, in order to extract concessions from a democratic president, back then, the washington post asked senate majority leader mitch mcconnell what he learned from the experience. and he told the

washington post, in no uncertain terms, quote, what we did learn is this, it's a hostage that's worth ransom-ing. the debt ceiling is a hostage worth ransoming. which is what is happening right now. a hostage crisis. now, mitch mcconnell also apparently learned that it is nobody's idea of a good time to ransom the u.s. economy. today, house and senate leaders from both parties met with president biden but senator mcconnell told reporters he doesn't really need to be part of those negotiations. because, well, this time it is kevin mccarthy's problem. >> the president and the speaker have the keys to the deal. i am prepared to try and deliver as much for our congress as i can for whatever the speaker and the president can agree to. >> the president. and the speaker hold the keys to the deal. see what he did there? kevin mccarthy, talk to that guy. this is his hostage negotiations. not mine. and actually that should concern everyone.

>> mister speaker, will you take default off the table? >> well, the great thing about the question is, we have already taken default off the table, because the house republicans passed a bill that raised the debt ceiling. >> we have already taken default off the table, because the house republicans passed a bill. what speaker mccarthy is talking about here is the bill passed by house republicans last month that would kick hundreds of thousands of americans off their health insurance, that would push hundreds and thousands of people off food assistance programs at a time of rising inflation, and that would, according to moody's analysis, results in thousands of fewer jobs created over the next -- so yes, that is the list of republican demands, a set of deeply, deeply unpopular cuts. or, financial calamity. democrats, by contrast, want just one thing here. release the hostage. let the nation pay the bill that it already racked

up during both the trump and biden presidencies. today, president biden officially canceled part of his overseas trip this week in order to deal with this. he has also dispatched two of his top aides to negotiate directly with aids to speaker mccarthy and to figure out an end to this crisis. but what exactly does that mean? after all, the white house has said for months now, we will not negotiate over the debt ceiling. and yet, democratic leaders are now saying that the only way out of this crisis is an agreement with bipartisan support in both houses of congress. which sounds a lot like negotiations over the debt ceiling. if that is the case, how does this all end? and what do democrats get out of it? joining us now for his very first television interview since assuming the job of white house communications director is

ben--. then, thank you for being here. what a day, what a time to start the new gag. let me just get right to, i think the question that a lot of folks are wondering, is the white house now negotiating over the debt limit? >> no. look, alex, default is not an option. it would tip the country into a recession and cost us millions of jobs and the president simply won't allow that to happen. what the president has been hoping to do throughout this process is a budget negotiation. it's an appropriations negotiation, a typical process, and so he has deployed his team to capitol hill to negotiate and find a reasonable bipartisan agreement that both parties and both chambers can support. and that is the way out of this. that's the way out of this crisis. we are not going to give up the economic gains of the past two years. 12. 7 million jobs created. 800 manufacturing jobs, clean energy getting off the

ground in this country. the president and his negotiators are going to protect those gains throughout this process. >> i'm still confused about how that is not a negotiation over the debt limit. even if it is being called a negotiation of the budget, it is happening at precisely the same time the republicans are holding hostage the american economy. that seems to be their trump card pardon the invocation of trump's name. in that respect, i guess i wonder, do you, are you concerned that republicans are ready to shoot the hostage, and that fundamentally because of that, they hold the upper hand? >> well, i don't think so. i mean, look, we did think it was an encouraging meeting between the leaders today. it is important that leader mcconnell said after the first meeting that default was not an option. speaker mccarthy came close to that at the microphones today. so the leaders seem to be heading in the same direction that default is not an option, and it would cost the american economy and american workers too much. there is some

distance between the budget agreements. there's no question about that. the president has introduced the budget to continue to invest in america and support manufacturing and cleaner energy and bringing down health care costs. and republicans, as you pointed out in your opening segment, have introduced a budget that would cut by 22%, essential programs for working americans from health care to veterans health care benefits, to law enforcement, to the border patrol. so there is significant distance between the budgets. what we are looking for the stage, we have got to get default taken off the table. and then, look, the president recognizes it is a republican house. there is going to have to be some compromise to get to a budget agreement. and we recognize that. but he is bringing a budget plan to the process that does reduce the deficit by three trillion dollars, but does it by taxing the wealthy and taxing corporations, and demanding we put an end to subsidies for oil and gas companies and big pharma. so, that is the

framework that president has negotiated into the process. but of ultimately we will have to get to a reasonable, bipartisan deal that will pass both chambers. >> again, is our timetable for that? i guess i'm trying to understand, the budget negotiation process seems like it when you are far apart on that. and you are--the priorities are radically different. do you think that you are going to reach agreement on those budgetary principles in the same window that you need to get everybody on the same page about default on the debt, in terms of the debt ceiling? >> well, look. we have a very important deadline for default. secretary yellen has analyzed the tax returns and determined that as soon as june 1st, the government could fail to pay its obligations. so even if we got close to that deadline in 2011, we get downgraded. and that had economic implications. so we can't allow that to happen to the american people. we need to take default off the table. and at the same time as

we can get, as the president has always been willing to, a framework for a budget through the typical process off the ground. sure, that will take some time to negotiate. there is a significant gap between priorities there. but we are going to take our priorities to that framework. his negotiators are on the hill. and ultimately the outcome we need over the next couple weeks is to remove default from the table. and ensure that we don't tip into a recession. >> i'm sorry to belabor this point, ben, but you are talking but a few weeks. we know, practically speaking, they're five and six working days for congress to get something done on this. are you on the same page about, i know the white house is on, the white house has a firm stance that the u.s. economy can't default. is kevin mccarthy signaling that he too believes the u.s. economy cannot default? and if not, how can you get him to do that in the next 5 to 6 working days? >> we think that this was a productive meeting today, that headed towards a recognition between leaders that default is

simply not an option. and now negotiations on the hill around a budget framework have been accelerated. the president introduced his budget on march 9th. so we brought that to the table. the republicans passed theirs in late april. and we have had a window to get this budget negotiation off the ground. the negotiators the president sent to the hill -- they started that conversation this evening. they are happening in earnest. and i think there is -- typical right now because we need to get this done, because of the catastrophic implications default can have the economy. >> do you have the sense, does the president believe that kevin mccarthy is a reliable narrator in terms of getting things past his caucus and making agreements that would actually stick? >> well, look, i think he believes that the speaker is a trustworthy person. i think he also recognizes the politics of the conference right now, and

that it took 15 votes to get elected speaker, and that the budget framework that has been introduced by house republicans reflects the framework of the right-wing freedom caucus. we think the path forward is really finding a budget framework that can pass both chambers, that members of both parties can happen to, we're going to need to vote for. and we need a majority of those votes. so we are going to have to look into both parties to find the votes for the path forward. >> and you think kevin mccarthy is acting in good faith that all of that is -- i do wonder, is the president willing to keep other mechanisms, like for example the 14th amendment, in is back pocket as a fail safe, in case these negotiations don't work out? >> you know, the president has addressed that. one of the challenges with taking unilateral executive action right now is that it is likely

to end up in litigation. and it could be decided through the courts, in fairly short order. you know, our goal here is to take defualtl off the table for the longer term, not to present a solution that could just buy us a week or two. >> i guess, i have to ask you, i want to turn, i know it is a hard turn but i have to ask you because it seems like we are dealing with an increasingly alarming situation as it concerns attacks on government officials. gerry connolly, the congressman, his office was, there has been a wave of attacks against various government officials, whether it is jake sullivan, gerry connolly, paul pelosi, not actually government official but of course the husband of the former speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. we do not know what the motives are for all of these attacks. but we do know that emanating from right-wing circles, there is a lot of anti government rhetoric, a lot of violent rhetoric. is the white house concerned about what may

come in the next months as potentially increasing pressure is ratcheted up on former president trump? to what degree does the white house look at this landscape and say, we are headed and careening towards potential disaster? >> well, listen, you know, political violence and violence in the political process is one of the reasons that president biden decided to run in 2020. he saw the events in charlottesville and he grew concerned that what in the past had been rhetorical debates suddenly, you are seeing the rise of hate and hate crimes and political violence. which isn't acceptable in any scenario, so, the justice department plays a role in responding to that. federal and state and local law enforcement certainly play a role in responding to that. and the president has made it a priority to resource them. but it is an ongoing concern, and

something that the administration is doing everything we can to make sure that the american people stay, you know, never resort to political violence. the president has consistently condemned this and ultimately it is up to the justice department to make sure we are holding accountable those who perpetuate these sorts of crimes. >> white house communications director ben labolt, great talking with you, ben. thanks for your time tonight. >> nice to talk to you, alex. >> we have a lot to get to this evening. it is election night here in america, and though it may not look like it, democracy itself is once again on the ballot. plus, prosecutors pushed back against donald trump as his lawyers in multiple cases, fight to get their cases against him either delayed or thrown out. more on that just ahead.

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>> there was a time in donald trump's life where he could use his presidential muscle to basically make his allies at the department of justice fall in line. to ensure that investigators didn't investigate the wrong things. but donald trump is not president anymore. and the prosecutors leading investigation these days, including alvin bragg in new york and fani willis in georgia, they are not falling in line. quite the opposite. after trump was indicted in manhattan for falsifying business records in order to conceal hush money payments, trump's team demanded that the former president be provided a bill of particulars. that is a very detailed, formal, written statement explaining the charges against him. team trump also wanted the manhattan d. a. to explain, again, in that bill of particulars, what second crime trump might've

committed in falsifying those business records. and that is because that second crime is what allowed the d. a.'s office to charge trump with a felony and not just a misdemeanor. so that is information they very much want. well, today the manhattan d. a.'s office k trump what can really only be described as a brush off. in a newly unsealed legal filing, the a bragg's office wrote, the fact set forth in the indictment in the accompanying statement of facts provided the particulars to which the defendant is entitled. and then, they note that, the defendant is not entitled to the information requested. basically, mr. trump would only get what he is entitled to, and what he is entitled to right now is nothing. as the people advise the court in the defendant at his arraignment, the people are prepared to provide millions of pages of discovery to the defendant, once the defendant has been advised on the required of the terms of content of, and conduct prohibited by, the

protective order entered by this court on may 8. so, prosecutors are saying, they have plenty of material to share with mr. trump's. millions of pages, in fact. but before trump can get any of it, he needs to understand the rules. and the rules here, they prevent trump from discussing, describing or posting on social media any evidence obtained during the discovery process. and they block him from the reviewing certain documents anywhere but in his lawyers'offices. it is a lot of rules for a former president. but to given the fact that trump is currently being investigated for mishandling classified information, it sort of makes sense. so, yes, this is a far cry from the days when trump could just call bill barr and well, we have no idea what trump said to bill barr. but there were probably not rules like this in place. now, alvin bragg's response today comes just one day after fulton county d. a. fani willis down in georgia, after she filed her response to trump's demand that her office be dismissed from the investigation into efforts

to subvert the 2020 election. this is what da willis wrote. if any of the elements put forward by mr. trump's motion where the egregious grounds for disqualification which he asserts they are, he had the duty to raise them to the court's attention as soon as he learned of them. far from raising this issue promptly, mr. trump has waited years, until after the conclusion of an entire special purpose grand jury investigation, when the fulton county district attorney own investigation had moved into its latter stages. in other words, good luck getting me fired. and good luck making your case, mr. trump. but, unless a judge demands it, the georgia investigation continues. this evening, trump's legal team asked the judge for another three weeks to file a reply to da willis, a request that seems unlikely to be granted. joining me now are former federal and state

prosecutor tolley -- danya perry, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. thank you both for being here. i am not a legal expert, i'm not a lawyer. i have no legal background. just on its face, i will go with you first, danya, this looks like a pretty strong brush back to the president's legal team, on both counts. from both d. a. s, fani willis and alvin bragg. am i reading that right? >> i think you're reading that exactly right. so, these are both local elected prosecutors. they, even under the old heyday, under attorney general barr, they would not have been within the confines of the department of justice. but these two prosecutors have shown themselves to be very independent minded, and they are following facts and writing it down. and, yeah, these were, both of them, i think your term brushback is exactly right. the a bragg's office told the judge

and trump himself, you've got everything you have. you have millions of pages and there is very liberal discovery rules in new york. so, that is your answer. sift through the -- >> and -- >> only in your lawyer's office. you can't look at those millions of pages to discovery on your own. >> yeah. that's unusual, but under the circumstances, the judge found here that that was warranted. so he will have to abide by set of rules that don't apply to most people, but do uniquely apply in this situation because of his tendency to flout those rules. and, da willis as well, her office came back, usually it is not a great argument to say, you're waiting too long. but that is a strong argument. and trump's legal team often uses delay as a strategy, but here

she also has some very substantive, good legal reasons with precedent to back it up, to say, no, in this case, and once again, you get the brush off. >> do you think it is indicative of their own belief in the strength of their cases? is this a sign that they are like, you know what, we don't have to label on any of this. because we are about to get you. sorry to put it in layman's terms, but i'm trying to interpret what the message might be. >> well, i think we actually have to take each case, alex, on its own terms. and i think it is easy to all the people we think as someone who is looking for delay as a tactic and you have got a decade of a track record of him trying to drag something out. but i think what he has done in each of these cases is different and you have to analyze the responses differently. so i think what fani willis has said is that the motion is both too late and too early. so, as danya said, it is too late. because some of the stuff you are complaining about, some of the structural,

reasons for having a two-step grand jury in georgia, you should've complained about that when we got started two years ago. and some of it is too early. because you haven't been injured yet. nothing's happened. you are not a witness to this grand jury. and you actually have to be indicted before you can complain about the grand jury. i think what is happening in manhattan is different. there is kind of a disconnect between what he is asking for and what the d. a. has come back with, because he is using the device of the bill of particulars to try and get some more law. he is trying to save, please tell me with that second crime is. and the dea is responding with, well, actually, a bill of particulars is about facts. we will get you all the facts, through discovery. but i think that question of, what is the second crime, a legal question, not a factual question, is hanging over this case. and it is going to continue to hang over this case. and just because donald trump is the person making that argument -- broken clock is right twice a day. and in this case, i think he's actually

some good arguments on his side. and, -- does demand that he knows, so that you can defend himself. >> so, you think of the d's response is submission? >> i think that it is sufficient here. because this device, again is, really about getting more facts and the bill of particulars is not even actually that useful anymore, now that new york law has changed and you have to produce discovery to a defendant early. but i think, again and again, trump is going to try and say, i need to know what that second crime is, or how can i defend myself. and i think it is a strategic decision for the da to not tell him to keep pushing that out. and i think something that is going to make the case vulnerable all the way through appeal, if it gets that far -- >> not just donald trump. a lot of people want to know with the second crime is, the second crime that goes from misdemeanor to felony. there

are four breadcrumbs scattered in this filing. danya, the d. a.'s office effectively says, trump the, defendant, intended to commit or to aid or conceal one, new york collection law, new york tax law, new york penal awe, violations of the federal election campaign act. those are, i mean, without going into extra shooting detail in each one of those, those are the laws we thought maybe the da was looking out for that step up crime. but having it in black and white, does that offer any certainty to you? is there anything to read into the selection of those foreign particular? >> i don't think so. i helped coauthor a report on this from the institution, many months before this indictment was actually handed down. and that is kind of what we thought. maybe we don't deserve great credit for that. so i don't think it actually gives that much more. and to tali's point, at some point, even if there, you don't have to as a matter

of law, they might wish to as a matter of fact and jury appeal to actually try to hone in on what is the theory. the jury doesn't necessarily want to pick and choose from a menu of options. they can. but it might behoove them at some point to try and articulate it on exactly what they think the step up was to get the jury to unanimously vote on one of them. >> yeah. it would seem like you have to lay out a theory. this is the first criminal indictment of of a former president, it could be one of these four things, i don't think, certainly it will's -- public opinion, before this case goes to trial, you would think he would lay out exactly what he thinks the felony charge is. >> indeed. it doesn't sit well to say, you either committed this crime, or you committed that crime. and sort of approximate away to get to a conviction. and, look, there is

some case law in new york that justifies doing it that way. there is a very old case about burglary, the kind of burglary that requires the intnet to commit a second crime, well, you don't have to say if when you broke into someone's house, was it to steal something or to hurt somebody. but over time, i think this is a good thing, we have said transparency matters. notice, to a defendant, it really matters. and the public is watching, as you say, alex. so i think if they keep choosing to answer in this, we don't have to tell you way, it will grate, and trump is going to keep pushing, not just because he pushes wherever he can. because here, i think he actually is something to work with. >> but it sounds like his case is weaker in georgia, where they are basically trying to rewind the clock on investigation that has sped full force ahead, and they look to be charging decisions made in the next few weeks.

>> yeah. we have been told -- july to august -- so, trump will get to respond. he has got three weeks. >> do you think he will actually get three weeks? >> that's not that unusual. d a willis had two months in order to respond. so, there has been a rather long time frame on this. but, you know it is put up or shut up time. we'll have to decide before july. >> okay. well, mark your calendars for july, august or september. the list goes on. tali farhadian weinstein and danya perry, so great to see you guys. thanks for joining me today. when we come back, voters headed to the poll today for a bunch of races, featuring election deniers in 2020 truthers. we are going to get the latest from america's sweetheart, steve kornacki. just ahead. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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...steeped in local culture. curriculum from cyber security to gardening. and assisting families with their needs: wellness centers, food pantries, and parental education. california's community schools: reimagining public education. >> in the heat of an election, when ballots are still being counted and results are being contested, democracies first line of defense isn't congress, and it is not the president. it is your state's secretary of state. it is your local judges. it is the person running elections just for your county. if the chaos of the 2020 election taught us anything, it is how important those local election officials are. and that is why i think tonight's primary elections really matter. they are the first and

sometime second and third line of defense in preserving democracy itself. after the 2020 election, former president trump in his supporters filed more than 60 lawsuits attempting to overturn the results in states that he lost. dozens of judges across the country, and across the political spectrum, they basically waved the private lawyers off and rejected a lawsuit. but one judge did not. pennsylvania appeals court judge patricia mccullough issued an order to halt the certification of the pennsylvania election. it was a huge victory for trump, optically speaking. to this day, trump supporters view that ruling as a victory. but nearly immediately, literally three days later, or the pennsylvania state supreme court unanimously overruled judge mccullough, because the trump team's argument was basically bonkers. but now that judge, the only judge who ruled in trump's favor in more than 60 election fraud lawsuits, tonight, she is running to be on the republican ticket for the pennsylvania state supreme court. the court that overruled her decision in

2020. now, at the lower level, in each of the counties in pennsylvania, the news outlet vote beat is sounding the alarm about county level election officials. those rules are traditionally -- they pick polling locations and make decisions on things like whether your county -- or let people fix ballots that have been not been filled out correctly. vote beat is sounding the alarm because they've identified at least 26 people in pennsylvania who are running for those kinds of county level election official positions who happened to be election deniers. so, those are the stakes for pennsylvania tonight. we don't have the results over the area. but in tonight's other primary election state, over in kentucky, we are seeing some news that is reassuring if you like representative democracy. >> i am stephen nipper. i am running for -- george soros system. -- more voters in them

than citizens. >> that guy is a little hard to hear. just for clarity sake, he begins our post -- george soros system, no wonder two thirds of our counties have more voters in them than citizens. that is the pitch. that guy, who had the endorsement of pillow ceo and election conspiracist michael lindell, he was running to be kentucky's republican candidate for secretary of state. tonight, local news outlets, including the nbc affiliate in lexington, kentucky, there reporting that mr. knipper has lost. the incumbent secretary of state was also republican but not, importantly, a election denier. he seems to be beating mr. knipper handily. we know there are not a ton of big names in the ballot tonight, but democracy itself is definitely on the ballot. and the 2024 race is certainly on the

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for you. >>. the north carolina legislature has just banned abortion after 12 weeks with few exceptions. now, democratic governor roy cooper had publicly veto this bill on saturday. but republicans hold a veto proof supermajority in the state house, which means today the north carolina state senate and house were able to

vote along party lines to override the governor. their bill will become law in the 12 -- july 1st. if anything demonstrates just how much these down ballot measures matter, it is moments like these. and especially on a night like tonight, where there are elections happening right now in important down ballot races. polls have closed for primary races in both kentucky and pennsylvania and we are keeping an eye on pennsylvania where just a few months ago, after a really drawn out battle for control of the state house, democrats flipped the chamber for the first time in 12 years. we hold the house by one seat for now and -- remember back in 2020 when it mattered who joined the state house. -- brian cutler, seeking mr. colors help in overturning joe biden's win in the state. some republican members of the house tried intervening themselves, claiming that the results of the 2020 election were in dispute. dispute. ultimately let that last-ditch

attempt to intervene in the state certification of the 2020 results, that failed by the it all goes to show that who runs the state house matters. tonight, the question of whether pennsylvania democrats get to keep control of it will be determined by two special elections, one in a republican stronghold, and the other in the suburbs of philadelphia. as expected, the ap just announced that the republican candidate running in that republican stronghold has won. then there is the state of kentucky, where a trump endorsed attorney general, daniel cameron, has won the republican gubernatorial primary. in november, cameron will face incumbent governor andy beshear, , who's considered one of the most vulnerable democrats in the country. joining us now is msnbc national and political

correspondent steve kornacki, without whom we would all be lost. it's good to see you, steve. it is election night, and it's not the big names, the household names that people are familiar with, but these are the machinery of governance, and in many ways, election integrity. let's first start with the gubernatorial race in kentucky. andy beshear, very vulnerable when it comes to the general, what do we know about daniel cameron, the republican a. g. that appears to be the person that beshear will be running against. >> cameron, getting a very convincing win in the republican primary tonight. interestingly, running with the endorsement of former president donald trump, but, also with the endorsement of mitch mcconnell. we know that trump and mcconnell have bee at loggerheads and so he managed to unite that to, but then managed to unite the republican party in kentucky pretty strongly behind him. cameron, somebody the republicans nationally have been keeping an eye on him for the last couple years, a speaking role the 2020 national republican convention. what this will test in the fall is two things. number, one beshear, the democratic incumbent is personally popular in kentucky. his party, the democratic party, and especially the national version of the democratic party is extremely unpopular in kentucky. can republicans take advantage

of that partisan tendency in the state to just vote against democrats because they do not like the party, have they found the candidate as well that has some qualities of its own that hat might be appealing for voters, and can they knock off the incumbent democrat who's immensely popular? the very personally unpopular republican, the margin just about 5000 jobs. >> as far as the secretary of state race, we played an ad from michael never -- excuse me, stephen knipper, who was against george soros, saying the voters are numbered citizens of the state. he appears to have been beaten by michael adams. tell us more about michael adams as secretary of state, he's the incumbent. >> michael adams, the incumbent secretary of state, who and had a number of issues here standing up for the integrity of the elections. nationally, he's won this thing, it looks like. last i checked, it was close to

30 points here. it is a solid or 30 to 35 point victory into that. >> do you read anything into that given the fact that he was pretty proudly not an election denier, and this is kentucky, in a lot of ways is trump country. the fact that he won so handily, how do you read that? >> it's tough to say, because we had a few of these last year. i feel like it had been the nebraska secretary of state's race last year, believe it or not. there is a similar situation in nebraska where there was to trump aligned republicans coming after a sort of moderate on election issues, republican secretary of state in the primary. they did not win. it did not come that close. we saw a number of the secretaries of state last year survive, and many survived easily. sometimes, there is a temptation in that primary, the primary season last year to read those as indicators that the party was moving away from donald trump. then you would see the party in other ways moving much closely to donald trump in some of those other candidate selections. i'm not quite sure what to make

of, it but we have seen a signal like we are getting out of kentucky before. >> i read it as a good sign for democracy of the people that is running the state elections doesn't believe in election denialism. speaking of election deniers, let's talk about the pennsylvania state supreme court. we've reminded our viewers right before the break that patricia mccullough, the woman that i believe she is an appellate court judge is running for a seat on the state supreme court. she is the one judge that handed trump a victory in 2020, which team trump has never forgotten. what can you tell me about that race and the likelihood that she will be sitting on the state supreme court in the 2024 election? >> the votes are being counted right now, caroline carr lucio is your opponent in the republican primary. the state republican party is endorsing carlucio, they believe she is electable in this -- we don't believe that nikola is eligible. the last time we checked before

this, carlucio was slightly ahead. i'm talking about four points ahead in the tally. it looked like going to the dynamics in the race, and east and west divide in pennsylvania in the philly pittsburgh divide. it looked like there was a little bit disproportionate vote for the western part of the state, which is mccullough's part of the state. and then from carlucio's eastern part of the state. it's too close to call, it is a tight election, and the other factor worth considering in all of this as well is that you remember last year in pennsylvania the big story being doug mastriano, who the republican candidate for governor, aligning himself with donald trump's claims about 2020. he has thrown his support, strongly thrown his support behind mccullough in this race. he's considering running for the united states senate for pennsylvania next year. in some ways, i think this could be a test of mastriano's lingering strength in the republican party as well. >> it is worth noting that if she is elected to the state supreme court, it would not change the balance of power on the court. much like -- not like the wisconsin state support race that had natural attention.

it was still meaningful. right now, democrats have a 4 to 2 majority. if a republican got one of the seats, it would be 4-3 and in a state like pennsylvania. one of the most swing states in the country. presidential election, year any election year, the balance of the supreme court really very much matters. i have to ask you about the pennsylvania state house. that is also a body that matters in that state. whether or not you think that the balance of power tips back to republicans, the democrats have had it for just a handful of what feels like hours. >> they finally won it last november after 12 years of trying, coming into tonight with these vacancies. democrats had a one seat edge in the pennsylvania state house. you mentioned that there was the one republican district expected, it's now happened for the republicans. that ties it, and is now coming down to just one seat. it is a vacancy, having been held from democrat in delaware county, right outside philadelphia. what we have counted in this district so far is just the mail-in ballots. the mail-in ballots are always,

and especially in pennsylvania, heavily democratic. the democrat has won the mail-in ballots by 50 points. it's a district that voted solidly for joe biden, solidly democratic in last year's midterm elections. we have to see some actual same-day results before we can say anything definitive, but it's a heck of a hill for the republican decline there in a district where the train is already hostile to republicans for to begin with. >> a heck of a hill, democrats might hold on to this. just by the hair of the two--. >> what they're seeing in that district is more confidence for republicans. we will see. >> the always wise steve kornacki, it's always great to see you, thank you for being here. we will be right back. ♪ are there animals living underwater? ♪ is the ocean warm? yeah, it can be very warm. ♪

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dressed. >> a guy that was just on with you, i had no idea who that was. he was steve kornacki in a, jacket. i immediately went to my locker to see if he had bored one of mine. [laughter] >> it's like if you don't see has khakis on air, was he ever really there? if it tree falls in the forest, no one's around to hear? >> did you tell him, go back and get a jacket if you're coming on the show. >> he said listen, i'm not on the big board, i'm a, guest all dressed for the occasion. aware my finest threads, and that's what america got tonight. >> well actually, twitter got a little bit more, because i took a picture on the window. >> i love when you do those lurking photos, it feels like we all live in this strange glass house together. >> i am the paparazzi on the third floor. 9 pm. >> you're the best pop in