>> well in, terms of how people will spend their time, that is not how it is being monetized, anyway. we have to do a sellout. so, -- linda yaccarino, by all accounts she is very good hitter drop. she has connection to the advertising after street. she also has politics that align with donald trump morion mask, then folks on the other side. the. i'll like, she could be the best in the world. but what brand, who is going to purchase to put it next to elon musk's latest grant? >> yeah. first of, all i don't know. i will say that i have seen some brands, small brands advertising on twitter, one that i was actually had thought that i would buy something from, then i said oh, they are not here. they must be sketchy and we are. >> that's exactly the association that everybody has. >> it's a trinket website now. have you seen, stuff in the middle of the mall, that has we are drone things and candles. huge part of the segment. candles. that's what they sell in twitter now. i don't know >> it's a weird trinket website now. you see stuffwe in the middle o the mall those weird drone things and candles, that's a huge part of the segment, candles, that's what they sell on twitter now. >> when you're worth hundreds of

billions of dollars you can burn a lot of it to turns out. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> i odmean, listen, between th two of us, buddy, one of us tweets a lot less than the other person. >> i like to tweet. i'm a poster to my veins. but t if i may i think i have a little more self-awareness than elon musk. a little bit. >> okay, okay. it'sy, cross talk so we can't really get into it. >> oh, i can't believe you're not agreeing. >> i support the self-awareness and certainly the conversation. thank you as always. and thank you for joining us this evening. so summer plans they're often up in the air, but you can go ahead and you can circle this date in pen -- june 1test. that is the deadline for congress to reach a deal or the u.s. is plunged into financial catastrophe. it's an importantan day, and, m,

it is really coming up, really around the corner. there was some hope the debt ceiling deadline couldth be pusd off through financial hocus-pocus, but no such luck. today treasury secretary janet yellen confirmed that, yep, june 1st or we all go over the cliff. and yes, today is may 16th. and if you're the type of person who likes to do math in your head, you may look at those two dates and say to yourself, oh, my gosh, congress only has 16 days tos get this all sorted o, but you would be wrong because these are the days that the house is actually in session this month, and these are the days that the senate is in session thise month, which mea unless that change is some time soon, unless someone calls an audible on those congressional recesses, well then the house is senate have somewhere between six to sevenav working days to hammer this all out. so six or seven days, not a ton

of time. panic about that deadline, it does not seem to have set in yet strangely, not in washington, not on wall street where the markets remain relatively ho-hum, and definitely not in the pages of certain newspapers where this approaching catastrophe is being treated sort of like it's business as usual. here's a quotes from the op-ed pages of "the new york times" this week. house republicans ainsistence on negotiations and compromise is not hostage taking, it is the ordinary stuff of, politics. the two sides can posture all they want, but in the end congress and the president have to reach an agreement. that is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. okay, yes, the paper of record published those words in its opinion section. this is not being imported as a partial analysis. it is someone's opinion. but whether or not republicans are taking the country hostage here really isn'tnt a matter of

opinion. it's a matter of fact. even republicans know this. back in 2011 when republicanbes first decided they would put a gun to the head of the american economy in order to extract concessions from a democratic president, back then "the washington post" asked senate majority leader mitch mcconnell what he learned from that whole experience, and he told "the washington post" in no uncertain terms, quote, what we did learn is this -- it's a hostage that's worth ransoming. the debt ceiling is a hostage worth ransoming, which is what is happening right now, a hostage crisis. now, mitch mcconnell also apparently learned it's nobody's idea of a good time to ransom the u.s. economy. senator mcconnell told reporters he doesn't really need to be part of those negotiations because, well, this time it's kevin mccarthy's problem. >> the president and the speaker

are the keys to the deal. i'm prepared to try to deliver as much as my confidence as i can for whatever the speaker and the president can agree to. >> the president and the speaker hold the keys to the deal. see what he did there? kevin mccarthy, talk to that guy. this is his hostage negotiation, not mine. and actually that should concern everyone. >> mr. speaker will you take default off the table? >> well, the great thing about that question is we'd already taken default off the table becauset house republicans pasd a bill that raised the debt ceiling. >> what speaker mccarthy is talking about here is the bill passed by house republicans last month that would kick hundreds of thousands of americans off their health insurance, that would push hundreds of thousands of people off food assistance programs at a time of rising inflation, and that would according to moodies analysis

result in hundreds of thousands of fewer jobs created over the next decade. so, yes, that is the list of republican demands, a set of deeply, deeply unpopular cuts or financial calamity. democrats by contrast want just one thing here, release the hostage, let the nation pay the bill it already racked up during both the trump and biden presidencies. today president biden officially canceled part of his overseas trip next week in order to deal with this. he's also dispatched two of his top aides to negotiate directly with aides to speaker mccarthy and to figure out an end to this crisis. butis what exactly does that me? after all, the white house has said for months now we will not negotiate over the debt ceiling. and yet democratic leaders are now saying that the only way out of this crisis is an agreement with bipartisan support in both houses of congress.

which sounds a lot like negotiations over a debt ceiling. if that is the case, how does this all end, and what do democrats get out of it? joiningt us now for his very first television interview since assuming the job of white house communications director is ben labol. thank you for being here. what a day and time to start the newe gig. i think the question a lot of folks are wondering -- is the white house now negotiating over the debt limit? >> no. look, alex,it default is not an option. it would tip the country into recession and cost us millions of jobs. the president won't allow that to happen.es what the president has been open to through this process is a budgetoc negotiation, is an appropriations negotiation through the, typical process, d so he's deployed his team to capitol hill to negotiate and find a reasonable bipartisan

agreement that both parties and bothre chambers can support. that's the wayha out of this crisis. we're not going toth give up th economic gains of the past two years, 12.7 million jobs created, 800,000 manufacturing jobs, clean industry getting off the ground. the president and his negotiators are going to protect the gains in this process. >> i'm still confused how it is not a negotiate over the debt limit even if it is being called a negotiate over the budget. at a time when republicans are holding hostage -- in that respect i guess i wonder are you concerned that republicans are ready to shoot the hostage and that they fundamentally because of that hold the upper hand?

>> i don't think so. look, we did think it was an encouraging i meeting today. mcconnell said after the meeting thathe default was not an optio. speaker mccarthy came close to that at the microphones today, so the leaders seemed to be heading in the same direction default is not an option, and it would cost the economy and american workers too much. there's some distance about budget agreements, there's no question about that. and republicans as you poirchted out in your opening segment have introduced a budget that would cut essential and so there's significant distance, still, between the budgets but what we're looking for at this stage we've got to get default taken off the table, and then, look, the president recognizes it's a

republicans house. there's going to have to be some compromise to get to a budget agreement, and we recognize that. but he'st, w bringing a budget to the process that does reduce the deficit by $3 trillion, but does it by taxing the wealthiest andg taxing corporations and demanding we put an end to subsidies for oil and gas companies and big pharma, so that's the framework the president and his negotiators are taking into the process, but ultimately we're going to need to get to a reasonable, bipartisan deal that can pass both chambers. >> and is there a timetable for that? i guess i'mbl trying to understd the budget negotiation prosseems like youi guys are far apart on that, and you readily admit as such. the priorities are radically different. doouj you're going to reach agreement on those budgetary principles in the same window you need to get everybody on the same page on the default -- in terms of the debt ceiling? >> well, look, we have an

important deadline for default. secretary yellen has analyzed the tax returns and determined as soon as june 1st the government could fail to pay its obligations. we even got close to that deadline in 2011 we got downgraded and that hadhook implications. so can't allow that to happen to the american people. we need to take default off the table at the same time we can get -- as the president has always been willing to for a framework for a budget through the process off the ground. there is a significant gap between priorities there, but a we're going to take our priorities to that framework. his negotiators are on the hill, and ultimately the outcome we need over the next couple of weeks is remove default from the table and ensure we don't tip into a recession. >> we know practically speaking there are five or six working

days for congress to actually get something done on this. i know the white house has been firm in its stance we cannot -- the u.s. economy cannot default. is kevin mccarthy signaling that he too believes the u.s. economy cannot default? and if not, how doia get him to do that in the next five or six working days in. >> we think this was a protective meeting today that headed towards a recognition for it leaders default is simply not an option, and now negotiations on the hill around a budget framework have been accelerated. the president introduced his budget on march 9th i remember, so we brought9t that to the tab. the republicans passed theirs in late april, and so we have had a window toha get this budget negotiation off the ground. the negotiators the president sent to the hill, they started those conversations this evening. they're happening in earnest. i think there's more working days in a week that typical right now because we need to gen this done because of the catastrophic implications

default could have for the economy. >> do you have the sense, does the president believe kevin mccarthy is a reliable narrator in terms of getting things passed as cottess and making agreements that will actually stick? >> well, look, i think he believes the speaker is a trustworthy person. he alsous recognizes the politi of the conference right now and that it took 15 votes to get elected speaker and the budget framework introduced by house republicans reflects the framework of the right-wing freedom caucus. we think the path forward is really finding a budget framework that can pass both chambers, that members of both parties are going to need to vote for, and we need a majority of those votes. and sori we're going to have to look in both parties to find the votes for the path forward. >> and you think kevin mccarthy is acting in good faith and all

of that is concerned. and i do wonder is the president willing to keep any mechanisms, for example, the 14th amendment in his back pocket as a fail safe in case these negotiations don't work out? >> youeg know, the president ha addressed that. one of thehe challenges with taking unilateral executive action right u now is that it's likely to end up in litigation and could be decided through the courts in fairly short order. ourrt goal is to take the short-term solution off the table. >> i know it's a hard turn, but i have to ask you because it seems like we're dealing with an increasingly alarming situation as it concerns attacks on government officials. gerry connolly, the congressman,

his office -- there's been a wave of attacks against various officials whether jake sullivan, pelosi the husband of the former speaker of the house nancy pelosi. we do not t know what the motiv are for all of these attacks, but we do know emanating from right-wingma circles there's a t of anti-government rhetoric, a lot of violent rhetoric. is the white house concerned about what may comehi in the ne months as increasing pressure is ratcheting up on former president trump? to what degree do they look at this landscape and say we're headed and w careening towards potential disaster? >> well, listen, you know, political violence and violence in the political process is one of the reasons that president biden decided to run in 2020, and he saw the events in charlottesville, andin he grew concerned that what in the past had been rhetorical debate, suddenly you're seeing the rise

of hate t and hate crimes and political violence, which isn't acceptable in any scenario. so, you know, the justice department plays a role in responding to that. federal and state and local law enforcement certainly play a role in responding to that, and the president has made it a priority to resource them, but it is an ongoing concern and something the administration is doing everything we can to make sure the american people stay -- you know, neverpe resort to political violence. the president has consistently condemned this, and ultimately it's up to the justice department to make sure we're holding accountable those who perpetuate these sorts of crimes. >> white house communications director ben labolt, great talking to you. thanks for your timeg tonight. >>ou nice to talk to you, alex.

wae have a lot to get to this levening. it is election night here in america, and though it may not look likeit it, democracy itsel is once again on the ballot. plus, prosecutors push back against donald trump as his lawyers in multiple cases fight to get their m cases against hi either delayed or thrown out. more on that just ahead. re on t.

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there was a time in donald trump's life when he could use his presidential muscle to basically make his allies at the department of justice sort of fall in line to make sure investigators didn't investigate the wrong things, but donald trump is not president anymore, and the prosecution leading the investigation these days including alvin bragg in new york and fani willis in georgia they're not falling in line, quite the opimate after trump was indicted in manhattan for falsifying business records in order to conceal a hush money payment, trump's team demanded the former president be provided a bill of particulars. that is a very detailed formal written statement explaining the charges against him. team trump also wanteded the manhattan d.a. to explain again in that bill of particulars what second crime trump might have committed in falsifying those business records, and that is because that second crime is

what allowed the d.a.'s office to charge trump with a felony and not just a misdemeanor, so that is information they'd very much want. well, today the manhattan's d.a.'s gave trump what can only be described as a brush off. in a newly unsealed legal filing d.a. bragg's office wrote the facts set forth in the indictment and the accompanying statement of facts provide all the particulars to which the defendant is entitled. and then they note that defendant is not intitle today the information requested. simply mr. trump will only get what he's entitled to, and what he's entitled to right now is nothing. as the people advise the court and the defendant and his arraignment, the people are prepared to provide millions once the defendant has been advised on the record to content of and conduct prohibbed by the protective order entered on may 8th. so prosecutors are saying they have plenty of material to share with mr. trump, millions of

pages, in fact. but before trump can get any of it, he needs to understand the rules. and the rules here, they prevent trump from discussing, describing or posting on social media any evidence obtained during the discovery process and block him from viewing documents anywhere but in his lawyers' offices. so, yes, this is a far cry from the days trump could just call bill barr -- well, we have no idea what trump said to bill barr, but there were probably not rules like this in place. fani willis down in georgia filed rules to trump's demand her office be dismissed from the investigation into efforts to subvert the 2020 election. this is what d.a. willis wrote. it any of the elements put

forward by mr. trump in his motion were the egregious grounds for disqualification as he asserts they are, he had a duty to appraise them to the court's attention as soon as he learn of them. mr. trump has waited years until after the conclusion of an entire special purpose grand jury investigation when the fulton county d.a.'s office own investigation has moved into its latter stages. in other words, good luck getting me fired and good luck making your case, mr. trump. unless a judge demands it, the georgia investigation continues. this evening trump's legal team asked the judge for another three weeks to file a reply to d.a. willis, a request that seems unlikely to be granted. joining me now are former federal and state prosecutor, and dania perry, former assistant for new york. i have no legal background, but

just on its face i'll go with you first, dania, this looks like a pretty strong brush back to the president's legal team on both counts, from both d.a.'s fani willis and alvin bragg. am i reading that right? >> i think you're reading that exactly right. so these are both local elected prosecutors who even under the old heyday under attorney general barr would not be within the confines of the department of justice, but these two prosecutors have shown themselves to be very independent minded, and they are following the facts and i think your term brush back is exactly right. d.a. bragg's office told trump himself in no uncertain terms you've got everything you have and there's very liberal

discovery rules in new york, and so that's your answer. sift through and you'll find it eventually. >> but only in your lawyer's office. you can't look at those millions of pages to discovery on your own. >> and that is unusual, but under the circumstances the judge found here that was warranted, and so he'll have to abide by a set of rules that don't apply to most people but do uniquely apply in this situation because of his tendency to flout those rules. and d.a. willis as well, her office came back and said usually it's not a great argument to say you waited too long, but that is strong argument, and trump often uses the legal team delay as a

strategy. >> is this a sign they're like, you know what, we don't need to play ball on any of this because we're about to get you. i'm just trying to interpret what the message might here be. >> i think we have to take each case, alex, on its own terms. i think it's easy to always think of him as someone looking for delay as a tactic. you've got a decade of a track record of him always trying to find a way to drag something out but i think what he's done in each of these cases is different, and we have to analyze the responses differently. i think what fani willis has said is this motion is both too late and too early, so as dania said it's too late because some of the stuff you're complaining about is the structural reason for having a two step jury in georgia. because you haven't been injured yet, nothing has happened, you're not a witness in this grand jury, and you actually

have to be indicted before you can complain about the grand jury. i think what's happening in manhattan is different there's kind of a disconnect between what he's asking for and coming back with. he's trying to say please tell me what that second crime is, and the d.a.'s responding with, well, actually a bill of particulars is about facts and we're going to give you all these facts as dania said through a discovery. but i think that question of what is a second crime, a legal question, not a factual question is hanging over this case. >> yes. >> and is going to continue hanging over this case and just because donald trump is the person making that argument doesn't mean it's wrong. a broken clock is right twice a day, but in this case i think he actually has some good arguments on the side. and fairness to the public interest does demand that he knows so that he can defend himself.

>> do you think the d.a.'s response is insufficient? >> i think that it's sufficient here because this device, again, is really about getting more facts and the bill of particulars is not even that useful anymore now that new york law has changed and you have to produce discovery to a defendant early. but i think again and again trump is going to try to say i need to know what that second crime is or how can i defend myself, and i think it's a strategic decision for the d.a. to not tell him, to keep pushing that out. and i think something that is going to make the case vulnerable all the way through appeal if it gets that far. >> not just trump, a lot of people want to know what that step up crime is, that crime that goes from misdemeanor to felony. the d.a.'s office effectively says trump, the defendant, intended to commit or aid or conceal one, new york election law, new york tax law, new york

penal law, violations of the federal election campaign act. those are without going into excruciating detail on each one of those, those are the laws we thought maybe the d.a. was looking at for that step up crime. but having it in black and white, does that offer any certainty to you? is there anything to read into the selection of those four in particular? >> i don't think so. i offered a report on this from the brookings institution many months before the indictment was handed down, and that's kind of what we thought and everyone thought and so i don't think this actually gives that much more. at some pont even if they don't have to as a matter of law, they might wish to as a matter of fact and jury appeal, actually try and hone in on what is the theory. a jury doesn't necessarily want to pick and choose from a menu

of options. >> right. >> they can, but it might behoove them at some point to try and -- >> articulate it. >> -- exactly what they think the step up was to get the jury to unanimously vote on one of them. >> yeah, it would seem you have to lay out a theory of this is the first criminal indictment of a former president for the d.a.'s office to say it could be one of those four things i don't think it's going to satisfy donald trump which is in a court of opinion. you would think he lay out what the charge is. >> indeed. and sort of approximate a way to get to a conviction. and look, there is some case law in new york that justifies doing it that way. there's a very old case about and kind of burglary that has to

have intent to commit a saekd crime. the law in new york when you broke into someone's house was it to steal something or to hurt somebody, but over time i think this is a good thing. we have said transparency really matters. notice to a defendant really matters, and the public is watching as you say, alex. so i think if they keep choosing to answer in this, so we don't have to tell you way it's going great, and trump is going to keep pushing and not just because he pushes wherever he can, but here he -- >> they're basically trying to rewind the clock on an investigation that full force ahead, and there look to be charging decisions made in the next few weeks. >> yeah, we've been told july and july to august time frame, and so trump will get to respond. he's got three weeks. >> do you think he'll actually

get three weeks? >> that's not that usual, and d.a. willis had two months in order to respond. so there's been a rather long time frame on this, and a judge is going to have to decide before july. >> okay, well, mark your calenders for july, august, or september. the list goes on. great to see you guys. thanks for joining me tonight. when we come back voters headed to the polls tonight for a bunch of races featuring election deniers and 2020 truthers. we're going to get the latest from america's sweetheart steve kornacki just ahead. t ahead.

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in the heat of an election when ballots are still being counted and results are being contested, democracy's first line of defense isn't congress and it is not the president. it is your state secretary of state. it is your local judges. it is the person running elections just for your county. if the chaos of the 2020 election taught us anything, it is how important those local election officials are, and that is why i think tonight's primary elections really matter. they are the first and sometimes second and third line of defense in preserving democracy itself. after the 2020 election former president trump and his supporters filed more than 60 lawsuits attempting to overturn the results in states that he

lost. dozens of judges across the country and across the political spectrum, they basically waved the trump lawyers off, and they rejected their lawsuits, but one judge did not. pennsylvania appeals court judge patricia mcculla issued an order to halt the certification of the pennsylvania election. it was a huge victory for trump optically speaking, and to this day trump supporters view that ruling as a victory. but nearly immediately literally three days later the pennsylvania state supreme court unanimously overruled judge mcculla because of the trump team's argument was basically bonkers. but now that judge, the only judge who ruled in trump's favor in more than 60 election fraud lawsuits, tonight she is running to be on the republican ticket for the pennsylvania state supreme court, the court that overruled her decision in 2020. now, at the lower level in each of the counties in pennsylvania the news outlet vote beat is

sounding the alarm about county level election officials. those rules are traditionally sort of foreign. they pick polling locations and make decisions on things whether your county leaves drop balks or fix ballots that have been filled out incorrectly. vote beat is sounding the abarm because they've identified at least 26 people in pennsylvania running for those kind of county level election official positions who happen to be election deniers. well, those are the stakes for pennsylvania tonight. we don't have the results over there yet, but in tonight bfs other priproprietary election state over in kentucky we're seeing some news that is reassuring if you like a representative democracy. i know that guy is a little hard to hear so just for clarity's sake, he begins his pitch to voters by saying, quote, our voter rules are controlled by a

george soros system, no wonder two thirds of our counties have more voters in them than citizens. that's the pitch. that guy who had the endorsement of my pillow ceo and election conspearicist mike lindell was running to be the republican candidate for secretary of state. they're reporting he's lost. the combpt secretary of state also a republican but not importantly an election denier, he seem tuesday be beating mr. nipper handily. i know there are a not a ton of big names on the ballot tonight, but democracy itself is definitely on the ballot, and the 2024 race is certainly on the ballot. the great steve kornacki will join me live here coming up in a few minutes to discuss all of this. e coming up in a few minutes to discuss all of this known for getting everyone together. no one wants to be known for cancer,

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we have some breaking news for you. the north carolina legislature has just banned abortion after 12 weeks with few exceptions. now, democratic governor roy cooper has publicly vetoed this bill on saturday, but republicans hold the veto-proof super majority in the statehouse, which means that today the north carolina state senate and house were able to vote along party lines to override the governor. their bill will become law, and the 12-week ban will take effect on july 1st. if anything demonstrates just how much these down ballot measures matter and these down

ballot races, it is moments like these, and especially on a night like tonight where there are elections happening right now in important down ballot races, polls have closed for primary race for both kentucky and pennsylvania, and we are keeping an eye on pennsylvania where just a few months ago after a really drawn out battle for control of the statehouse democrats flipped the chamber for the first time in 12 years. they hold the house by one seat for now, which is not nothing in the swing state of pennsylvania. remember back in 2020 when it very much mattered who controlled that statehouse. trump and his allies reached out to then-republican pennsylvania house speaker bryan cutler seeking mr. cutler's help in overturning joe biden's win in the state. some republican members of the house tried intervening themselves, claiming the results of the 2020 election were in dispute. ultimately that last ditch attempt to intervene in the state certification of the 2020 results, that failed. but it all goes to show that who runs the statehouse matters, and

tonight the question of whether pennsylvania democrats get to keep control of it will be determined by two special elections one in a republican strong hold and the other in the suburbs of philadelphia. as expected the a.p. just announced the republican candidate running in that republican strong hold has won. and then there's the state of kentucky where trump endorsed attorney daniel canyon has won the gubernatorial primary. he'll face incumbent andy bashir considered one of the most vulnerable democrats in the country. joining me now is msnbc political correspondent steve kornacki without whom we'd all be lost. it is good to see you, steve. it's election night and not the household names i think a lot of people are familiar with, but this is the machinery of governance, and in many ways election integrity. let's start first with the gubernatorial race in kentucky. andy beshear, very vulnerable

when it comes to the general. what do we know about daniel cameron. >> cameron getting a very convincing win in this republican primary tonight. interestingly he ran with the endorsement of former president donald trump but also with the endorsement of mitch mcconnell and you know mcconnell and trump have been at logger heads for a bit. and turned out the party in kentucky pretty strongly behind him, and a lot of republicans nationally to keep an eye on him for a few years, and what this is really going to test in the fall is two things. the incumbent especially the national version of the democratic party is extremely unpopular in kentucky, so can republicans take advantage of that partisan tendency in the state to just vote against democrats because they don't like the party?

have they found a candidate as well who has some qualities of his own that might be appealing to some voters? worth remembering is beshear won that office four years ago and against a personally unpopular republican the margin is just about 5,000 votes. >> as far as the secretary of state race, we played an ad from michael nipper -- sorry, steven nipper, who was running in this primary railing against george soros and saying voters outnumbered citizens in the state. he appears to have been beat by michael adams. can you tell me more about michael adams as secretary of state who's the incumbent? >> yeah, he's the incumbent secretary of state who a number of issues here stood up for the integrity of elections in his state and initially has won this thing it looks like. the last i checked it's close to

30 points here. >> do you read anything into that given the fact he was pretty proudly not an election denier, right? and this is kentucky. this is in a lot of ways trump country. the fact he won so handily, how do you read that? >> it's tough to say because we had a few of these last year. i think the nebraska secretary of state's race last year believe it or not, there's a similar situation in nebraska where two trump aligned republicans came after a sort of moderate on election issues, republican secretary of state in the primary and didn't win, and didn't come that close. so we saw a number of these secretaries of state last year actually survive and actually in many cases survive easily. and so sometimes there was a temptation in that primary season last year to read those as indicators that the party was moving away from donald trump, but then you would see the party in other ways move much more closely to donald trump in some of its other candidate selections, so i'm not quite sure what to make of it, but we've seen a signal like we're getting out of kentucky before. >> i read it as a good sign for

democracy that the person running for state election does not believe in election denialism. let's talk about the pennsylvania state supreme court. we've reminded our viewers right before the break patricia mcculla who i believe is an appellate court judge is running for a seat on the state supreme court, she is the one judge who handed trump a victory in 2020, which team trump has never forgotten. what can you tell me about that race and the likelihood she'll be sitting on the state supreme court when the 2024 election rolls around? >> the votes are being counted right now. her opponent in the republican primary, the state has endorsed her, they don't believe mcculla is electable in the general election. the last i checked before i came out here she was slightly ahead, i'm talking 4 points ahead in the tally. it looked look one of the dynamics in the race was there's

an east, west divide in pennsylvania. it looks like there's a disproportionate vote from the western part of the state than the eastern part of the state. so it's too close to call. it's a tight election, and the other factor worth considering i think in all this, too, is you remember last year in pennsylvania big story it was doug mastriano, republican candidate for governor and aligned himself with all of trump's claims of 2020. he's thrown his support behind mccullough in this race. >> it's worth noting if elect today the state supreme court it will not change the balance of the power on the court, not like the wisconsin state supreme court race that had national attention, but it is still meaningful. right now democrats have a 4-2 majority. and that would be a 4-3 majority in the state like pennsylvania,

one of the swingiest states in the country in a presidential election year or any election year, the balance of the supreme court really very much matters. i've got to ask you about the pennsylvania statehouse, because that is also a body that matters in that state, and whether or not you think the balance of power tips back to republicans, the democrats have had for just a handful of what feels like hours. >> right. they finally won it last november after 12 years of trying, coming into tonight with these vacancies, democratvise a one-seat edge in the pennsylvania statehouse. you mention there's that one republican district expected, and that ties it, and now it's come down to this one seat the vacancy had been held by a democrat in delaware county, which is right outside philadelphia. what we've got counted in this district so far are just in the mail-in ballots. remember the mail-in ballots are especially in pennsylvania heavily democratic. the democrat has won the mail-in ballots by 50 points.

this is district who voted solidly for joe biden, voted solidly in last year's mid-term elections. we've got to see results before we can say anything definitive, but that's a heck of a hill for the republican decline there. >> a heck of a hill and says democrats might hold onto this. >> i think they're looking at what they're seeing in that district and feeling more confident. >> the always wise steve kornacki, it's always great to see you, my friend. we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

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