getting up way too early with us on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪♪ good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, may 17th. good to have you all with us this morning. he's not in the race yet, but florida governor ron desantis is drawing a clear line on the issue of abortion, seizing on donald trump's inconsistent comments on the issues. we'll have much more on that straight ahead. plus, house democrat is going to force republicans to go on the record when it comes to george santos. we'll explain what's happening with that on capitol hill. meanwhile, chatgpt has the attention of members of congress. we'll show you the moment when a senator faked his own opening remarks. if that doesn't bring it home. and we'll look at the fallout from elon musk's tweets on a frequent target of the far

right. with us we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire, professor at princeton university, eddy jr., former white house director of communications to president obama, jen palmary, co-host of showtime's "the circus" and member of the "new york times" editorial board mara gay. joe will join us in just a bit. willie, we have a lot to get to. i know we're not starting with this, but rudy giuliani was sued. did you hear about that? >> i did. there's some explosive and wild details that are coming out of that lawsuit that i think we're going to be talking about in just a few minute. do want to ask you first, though, jonathan lemire about this latest debt ceiling meeting at the white house the big four getting together, some glimmers of optimism. i guess we're grading on a curve here, though, based on there being no optimism out of the meeting a week ago. that june 1st date that secretary janet yellen has been

warning about for several weeks is inching closer. what came out of the meeting yesterday? are there real hopes there might be a deal here? >> it's a step in the right direction but a small one. that's what both parties seem to indicate. they were indeed. speaker mccarthy a little more optimistic than we have heard from him before, same with the president. but there was very little progress made on the substance yesterday. staff is still working on the budget parallel track. but both sides have pointed new negotiators. the president some of his top people are now going to be leading this, the talks with the white house. -- with the house of representatives. and there's sort of an acknowledgment there's time to get serious and underscore that president biden did announce yesterday he'll be cutting short his upcoming trip to asia. he is still leaving later today and heading to japan for the g7, one of those crucial summits you can't miss. now he is coming back on sunday, cutting short his trip by several days, no longer going to australia and papa new guinea. that had been a real mint to go

and show american commitment to that region, try to curb china's rising influence. that's no longer happening because he has to get back and continue these negotiations. staff will keep talking over the weekend. the president will rejoin talks early next week, mika. but the clock is ticking. we're just two weeks out. there's a sense from both sides that they'll get there probably. but they're also almost certainly not going to get there until the 11th hour. >> we'll keep an eye on that. talk about it more throughout the show. but we want to turn to politics now. florida governor ron desantis appearing ready to draw the political battle lines with donald trump over the issue of abortion. on monday, the former president said of the six-week abortion ban that governor desantis recently signed into law, quote, if you look at what desantis did, a lot of people don't even know if he knew what he was doing. but he signed six weeks. and many people within the pro life movement feel that was too harsh. during the town hall last week

that trump was on, trump declined to detail what kind of federal action he would take on abortion if re-elected president. yesterday, desantis reacted to the former president's comments. >> protecting an unborn child when there's a detectable heart beat is something that almost probably 99% of pro lifers support. it's something that other states like iowa under governor kim reynolds have enacted. and i think that as a florida resident, you know, he didn't give an answer about would you have signed the heart beat bill that florida did, that had all the exceptions that people talk about, the legislature put it in, i signed the bill. i was proud to do it. he won't answer whether he would sign it or not. >> trump responded to that by calling into news max last night saying, quote, i'm the one who got rid of roe versus wade, so

we can go on and on about that, but we won't. jen the politics of this, though, is so interesting because there are primary issues and then there are primary issues. and that the rest of the nation will not unsee. >> right. it's political partisan primary issues and primary issues that are primary in people's brains, right? >> exactly. and it seems to me that this is a race to the bottom between ron desantis and donald trump as they sort of scrap over this. but ron desantis is racing against someone who is going to lie and then lie again and then lie again about his position. meanwhile, he'll double down on something that will not work in the general. am i wrong? >> right. so it is interesting that this is the first time i have seen desantis and trump actually have a substantive disagreement. for trump to raise his head and say six -- suggest the six week abortion ban is too stringent,

that's something -- that is something new in republican presidential primary politics. how far he can go with that, you know, i don't know. he did say when he did the thing with collins last week, he refused to answer what he would do on abortion and what kind of restrictions he would allow. i don't know how long you can stay in that position in the republican presidential primary. i don't think desantis is right when he says 99% of republicans or pro life republicans support a ban at six weeks, but they -- but there's probably a pretty big majority. so this could be a problem for -- trump may have to back off or just be, as you suggest, unclear. >> except, mara, donald trump is right about that last comment he made to news max when he said i'm the one who got rid of roe versus wade. he appointed three supreme court justices. i don't think pro life republicans are going to quibble

with what week he decides abortion should be legal or illegal. he got them the holy grail. >> i agree with you, willie. i think that what we're seeing is some of donald trump's killer instincts. he really has good political instincts in many way. i disagree with him on almost everything and i'm certainly not his target audience, but this is a man who, you know, really does have his pulse, i think, on what matters to a lot of republican voters. and we have already seen -- he's delivered for them on dobbs. so i think he's really forcing desantis to point out just how extreme his position is. and there's smart politics in that. those are the kind of instincts you can't really teach. i hate to say it, but what we're seeing is donald trump, i think, coming out swinging. >> we should point out donald trump has evolved, if you want to be generous, when it comes to the issue of abortion over the years. the former president and former democrat said this back in 1999.

>> look, i'm very pro choice. i just believe in choice. and again, it may be a little bit of a new york background because there is some different attitude in different parts of the country. i was raised in new york. and grew up and work and everything else in new york city. but i am strongly for choice. >> that's donald trump on "meet the press" in 1999. then of course he decided to run for president as a republican and flip-flopped so dramatically he even stunned some anti-abortion advocates. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman. >> yeah, has to be some form. >> woman should be punished he said to chris matthews during the 2016 in the town hall. last week he waffled when asked where he stands on a national ban on abortion. >> so you -- >> the fact -- >> just to be clear, mr. president, you would sign a federal abortion ban into law?

>> i said this, i said this, i want to do what's right. and we're looking. we want to do what's right for everybody -- >> we're looking. then after ron desantis criticized donald trump for that, trump reverted back to the other position again. >> i got us out of the roe v. wade with a pro life people had absolutely nothing to say. you talk about radical, the radical are the people that want to kill the baby literally after birth. >> so, eddie, a lot to digest there. donald trump puts his finger in the wind and decides he won the presidential election in 2016 on his new -- latest position. but, the question about getting through a primary and winning a general election, this will haunt ron desantis. he signed in a ceremony six-week abortion ban. if he finds his way past donald trump in a primary, democrats are going to hang that around his neck in a general election. >> oh, absolutely. i think -- i take mara's point

to be right that trump's political instimgts are good. any time ron desantis gets a chance, an opportunity to shall we say be more right than trump, he will do it. because that's an effort to kind of in some ways corral the trump base. so if he sees an opportunity to be the to right of trump, he's going to do it. whether that will play well in the general election, we know it probably won't, but he will still do it because that's the way to get out of the primary. >> yeah. but his political instincts are just lies. we have seen what he has done as president and, yes, he did put those judges in and, yes, he has a record on this and will say whatever needs to be said. so he will ruin the -- any republican candidates who try and beat him on this because he's on the record as saying women should be punished and he did follow through with putting those judges in there. i don't even know why it's worth listening to hear him talk about this issue. we have his record. and he can't be trusted. no matter what he says, you don't know whether or not it's a

lie. it might be just a momentary feeling that he feels luke saying politically for this moment. other candidates, they have a long way to go on this because it's not where america is. good luck in your primary destroying yourself for the general. meanwhile, let's look at what's happening in state legislatures. yesterday we talked about the north carolina state legislature, which has voted to override the governor's veto of a 12-week abortion ban, now making it law. the republican supermajority in both houses along party lines to pass the override, but if one -- if only one republican had voted against it, it would not have passed. democratic governor roy cooper responded in a statement after the vote, quote, north carolinians now understand that republicans are unified in their assault on women's reproductive freedom and we are energized to fight back on this and other critical issues facing our state. some provisions of the law, including the 12-week ban on the

procedure, will take effect july 1st. demonstrations against the law were held throughout the day. protesters surrounded the streets of the state house in the state capital of raleigh. the state's business community also came out against the override with more than 200 business owners signing on to a letter that states abortion bans are bad for business. jen, they're bad for women's health. women will die. women will have unbelievable trauma. women will become incapable of having more babies after they have to pass through fetuses that are dead that doctors will not help them with. i mean, this is happening right now. and this is the result of these bans. and those protests you saw in north carolina, i just wonder, is this -- across the country, are we going to see similar-types of struggles for women just to have basic health care?

>> and women will likely leave the state if what happens in north carolina is what happens -- is what has happened in other red states that have passed these six weeks or 12-week bans. doctors will leave the states because they feel like they can't provide women's health care in the state. then you saw how -- this is not what the north carolinians support. and you saw how people were protesting against this. this is not what the majority of north carolinians want. and there's going to be payback -- there's a governor's race this fall or this -- in '24. and also the republicans have the supermajority. those seats are -- the democrats and independents that are upset about this will fight back and try to take the state legislature, at least get -- take away the republican supermajority. it's about women's health, but then there's the fundamental piece of women feeling like their rights are eroded. women and men that are both concerned about that. and that impact gets felt well

beyond just this issue. >> yeah. it's a healthcare issue first and foremost. through the political lens, we are seeing this play out on states across the country. we're seeing ramifications politically but also economically. we saw just mentioned there some businesses suggests they're not going to do business in north carolina anymore. the biden administration is now thinking -- rethinking a plan to have space command move from colorado to alabama in part because of the changes to the laws there. abortion in particular. and trump is trying to do, i think mika, is right is he says one thing in a moment, he reads a room and just says something that people will like in that moment. but that threading the needing has worked for him in the past. they're lies. we can call them as lies. but he does have a knack, to mara's point, his political instinct is such he can say something that allows him to wiggle off the hook in a way that other candidates, including other republicans, simply can't. and i do think --

>> totally true. >> when desantis moves to trump's right on every issue, yeah, maybe that helps him temporarily, that won't help him next year. desantis, his aides suggest to me, they don't feel like they have a choice. that's the only space where they can run against trump. but this is all going to be a problem for these candidates in 2024. >> let me tell you something, ron desantis is going to have some issues with teachers, with a lot of different -- with all of his pet issues. but on abortion he'll have huge problems given what he has done in the state of florida where he has basically -- he has -- i'm trying to think of a nice way to say it, but he has destroyed the lives of women. and there are going to be women that choose not to come to the state because of what he's done when it comes to abortion and the health care they will not be able to get here. north carolina, my lord, good luck going to college there. i bet you some kids will choose not to go to college in north carolina, which has a lot of great educational institutions. kids will choose not to go

there, young women, they will not be able to get health care there. do you want a state that does not offer health care that leaves you to die, to bleed out if you're in a situation where you have an abnormal fetus or something else and you can't get a dnc, can't get basic health care? we'll talk about it a lot because apparently men need to understand what women's health care is about. it's not just about a live baby that's a day away from being born that somebody wants to abort. that's not what we're talking about. i can't believe we have to say this. that's number one. but mara, you know, first of all, donald trump, i don't need to see another sound bite about him talking about abortion. we know where he stands. we know who we put in place and we know what happened with roe. there's his record. so he will stand next to that. he can't hide from that in a general election. and i wish him the best of luck because he won't have good luck with women in america. but i want to add to something when you look at those protests

and many more that we'll see around the country, we're not going to just see women protesting. we're going to see men protesting. there are men behind this issue, too. there are men who love their women, who love their daughters, who love their mothers, who do not want to see the fate that is happening to women in this country right now because of abortion restrictions, happening to the women they love. this is not going to be pink hats only. this is going to be a country that will be on fire behind this issue. men are getting it. >> it's so interesting, mika, because of course, we know from donald trump's personal behavior what he thinks about women in general. and so, you know, he's sorely mistaken, to your point, if he thinks that most men across america share his view, his absolutely cave man view, in my opinion, of who women are as human beings, of what we deserve, and most people, i

believe, in this country still firmly are of the opinion that women deserve equal citizenship and are equal humans to men that all people are equal. and so, that's why i think there's a fundamental misunderstanding about the politics around this issue from republicans, from politicians, state legislatures but also from trump himself because americans don't want this. it's not just what's in the polls. their lives are being impacted. everybody who has a uterus, everybody who knows someone who has a uterus, anybody who has needed to go to the doctor for health care, anyone who has had a baby and watched that process unfold and that the incredible burden on a woman and her body that that takes, understands this is a decision that should happen between her and her doctor. and people are feeling this viscerally. this is an issue that is going to motivate people to the polls.

we saw that in kansas. we saw that in the 2022 midterms. and this is a losing issue for republicans. it's a loser. >> as you say, you think they would learn from a cynical, political point of view from the midterm elections, oh, this was a resounding rejection of some of this abortion legislation. yet many of them continue to drill deeper into it. we're going to continue to cover this later in the show. meanwhile, the ceo of the company behind chatgpt is urging lawmakers to regulate artificial intelligence. sam altman is his name. he testified before a senate judiciary sub committee yesterday. lawmakers asked him about the popular tool that can produce human-like text and also about the risks associated with it. altman in return pitched his own ideas on how legislation could help to improve the industry and to protect consumers. >> my worst fears are that we cause significant -- we, the field, the technology, the

industry, cause significant harm to the world. i think if this technology goes wrong, it can go quite wrong. when photo shop came on to the scene a long time ago, for a while people were really quite fooled by photo shop images. then pretty quickly developed an understanding that images might be photo shopped. this will be like that but on steroids. and the intreacttivety, the ability to really model predict humans as well as you talked about, i think is going to require a combination of companies doing the right thing, regulation and public education. >> in an effort to show the dangers of a.i., senator richard blumenthal of connecticut opened the hearing with a recording of his own voice. >> and now for some introductory remarks. >> too often we have seen what happens when technology outpaces regulation. the unbridled exploitation of

personal data, the proliferation of disinformation, and the deepening of societal inequalities. >> so that wasn't blumenthal's own voice or his own words, even. blumenthal used chatgpt and a voice cloning tool. the senator then explained how the technology could easily produced something he would never say, like endorsing russian president vladimir putin. senator blumenthal, by the way, will be our guest ahead on "morning joe." eddie, so interesting to hear many of the people who have created a.i., like the god father of a.i., who couple weeks ago left his job at google so he could speak freely about the dangers of a.i., they're the ones sounding the alarms about what's coming very quickly here. >> right. many of us grew up on sci fi that had at its core this worry about technology overrunning society in some ways from the terminator to matrix to all of this stuff, right? but here i think what's really important is we already have an erosion of trust at the heart of our democratic society, that

people don't really feel that they can trust what's coming out of the mouths of their fellows. and that impacts the way in which we deliberate and engage in self governance, the sovereignty of the people. if there's a fundamental doubt at the heart of how we engage, whether or not this is you saying what you're saying, that distrust deepens. it actually goes to the foundation of our ability to engage in self governance. >> mika, the ceo there in the hearing yesterday made the comparison to photo shop. this is not photo shop. he sort of made that distinction as well. this is something entirely different and with the proliferation of social media, you could get a fake clip online, explode around the world within minutes and cause a real crisis, frankly. >> this is terrifying. we'll talk about it a lot more. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to speak with the white house press secretary karine jean-pierre about where things stand with debt ceiling negotiations after yesterday's critical talks between president

biden and congressional leaders. plus, democrats pull off an election upset in florida. jacksonville mayor elect donna deegan joins us on the heels of her big win there. also ahead, academy award-winning actress patricia arquette is our guest. we'll have a look at her new series on apple tv. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ht back.

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incident that happened minutes before he entered the congressman's office. the suspect is due back in court for a preliminary hearing in july. monday's attack prompted calls to increase security for members of congress. spokesperson for house speaker kevin mccarthy released this statement writing in part, the speaker has, quote, made clear his expectation that politics must be separated from security and empowered the house sergeant at arms to work with u.s. capitol police to protect all members of congress as they deem necessary. obviously mika, it was much more than property damage that we described a couple of those staffers were attacked with a metal bat by this man. >> yeah. a woman who says she worked for rudy giuliani during the final two years of the trump administration is alleging that the former president's personal attorney discussed selling presidential pardons and detailed plans to overturn the 2020 election. according to a complaint filed

in new york state court on monday, noel says after giuliani hired her in 2019, he sexually assaulted and harassed her. refused to pay her wages and often made sexist, racist and anti-semitic remarks. she has stated she has recordings of numerous interactions with giuliani. she also alleges that giuliani talked about presidential pardons and claimed to have immunity and told her that he was selling pardons for $2 million which he and president trump would split. the lawsuit did not suggest any pardons were sold. she also alleges that giuliani provided a glimpse into plans to overturn the election if trump lost, telling her trump's team would claim there was voter fraud and that trump had actually won the election, according to the lawsuit. dunphy is seeking $10 million in compensatory and punitive damages. giuliani denied the allegations

through a spokesperson. mara, i want your thoughts. my take aways here is this is very early and these are her allegations, although she filed them under penalty of perjury. but there's a lot of different potentials here for someone like jack smith and others investigating the president if there is a there there to perhaps get more information as it pertains to attempts to overturn the election. >> well, speaking of cave men, right? you know, understandably we have been extraordinarily focussed on the prosecutions and potential prosecutions and the civil suits against donald trump. but despite the fact that he promised to hire only the best people, we also know that he was surrounded by men mostly who seemed to have not been able to behave themselves. one of the most prominent of those men, of course, is rudy giuliani the man formerly known as america's mayor.

so of course as a new yorker, too, you just think, this is also a man who ran for president at one point. and that's a disturbing thought at this juncture. but you know, there are other potential investigations that we may see. it is early. these are just allegations. everybody deserves a day in court, of course. but i have to say reading the 70-page complaint the allegations that ms. dunphy has over the course of two years and apparently these recordings that accompany them are extremely disturbing. there are sexual allegations that are disturbing of sexual abuse, wage theft, but also the potential national security implications and the threats to our democracy. the picture that she paints is vivid and disturbing and every single one of these claims should be taken seriously and vetted, in my opinion. >> i think you're right. and i think -- you know, i don't know what the approach would be if this was completely isolated, but we're talking about a man

who worked for a former president, worked for a president at the time, who right now is indicted, okay, under indictment by the manhattan d.a. for hush money payments to a porn star. and has been found liable of sexual abuse. so, we're talking about entire culture here plus on going questions about the attempts to overturn the election that are other litigations that are happening potentially against this former president that could lead to more indictments. it's hard to turn away and say, well, this could be nothing. it's important to take every allegation that has anything to do with trying to overturn the election or quite frankly mistreatment of women completely seriously. and when it comes to former president trump and anybody who is close to him. mara gay, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," there is a little more

optimism about yesterday's meeting on the debt ceiling, whether we can get to an agreement here. white house press secretary karine jean-pierre is standing by to discuss that and much more. "morning joe" is coming right back. back oh booking.com, ♪ i'm going to somewhere, anywhere. ♪ ♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah.

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there was an overwhelming consensus i think in today's meeting with the congressional leaders that defaulting on the debt is simply not an option. it's disappointing that our discussions in the congressional republicans have not been willing to discuss raising revenues, but the policy differences is between the party should not stop congress from avoiding default. i made clear again today's meeting that default is not an option. >> i just finished our meeting with the president. i did think this one was a little more productive. we're a long way apart. we have a short time frame to find out how we can come to an agreement. but look, i wish we had done

this back in february. >> oh my god. joining us now white house press secretary karine jean-pierre. i wish you had done this back in february, too. but that's not where we're at. not even close. what's at stake here? and how far apart is the white house and republicans on this? i mean, i think everyone agrees that we shouldn't be in this position where politics and disagreement over policies and different things that each side wants gets in the way of the debt ceiling. why are we doing this? >> that's a very good question, mika. but let me just say this and just kind of reiterate -- thank you for having me on -- what the president said yesterday. the president and congressional leaders had a productive meeting. they had a direct conversation on the importance of making sure america does not default on our debt for the first time. so that's one part of the conversation that they had. the other part of it is to make

sure that there's a responsible, bipartisan budget agreement that gets to his desk. and like you stated in the beginning of your question to me, mika, yes, there are a range of issues that they need to discuss. the president directed his staff to have this conversation on the staff level and to deal with what -- how we get to -- how we get to a bipartisan -- again, reasonable agreement on the budget. the president is looking forward to having conversations with the congressional leader on the phone later this week and meeting with them again when he comes back overseas. we are not a dead beat nation. you heard this from the president over and over again. this is congress's constitutional duty to get this done, as it relates to debt limit. we should not be in this position. we should not. this is something that has been done 78 times since 1960. let's not forget, democrats joined republicans in a bipartisan way putting politics

aside three times in the last administration, the trump administration, to get this done. so this is where we have. we have an x date from the treasury department on what needs to get done before that date is passing and getting done the debt limit which congress can do. they could have done this a long time ago. >> good morning. it's good to see you. >> good morning. >> mitch mcconnell said the same yesterday, by the way. we're not going to default. there will be a deal but it is speaker mccarthy and the president who are the key to this. one of the things on the table that republicans want out of this deal is federal work requirements for federal aid programs like medicaid and snap. you have to show employment for certain number of hours a week in order to get supplemental food or to get medicaid. progressives said that's a nonstarter for them. president and white house said there may be some negotiating. where is the president on the question of work requirements. >> here is what i'll say about

that is what republicans are proposing is essentially increasing poverty, proposing a plan that really won't save us much money at all, and cutting health care costs for millions of americans. this is a proposal that they have put forth, that they couldn't get unified agreement on when they had the government, when they had majority in the house, in the senate and also had a republican president. they couldn't even get this done. so look, the president has been very clear, he's going to fight for health care. he's going to fight for programs that american families truly need just to make ends meat. but that's the proposal that they're putting in front of us, willie. >> kareen, good morning. it's jonathan. you know, it's no small thing for a president to cancel a portion of a foreign trip. he, of course, is still going to the g7 in japan but no longer making the stops in australia and papa new guinea a region the

administration wants to focus on in part to curb china's rising influence. take us behind the scenes, if you will. what went into the decision for the president to opt to not take the second part of this trip. >> as you know in the statement that i put out yesterday, the president spoke to the prime minister of australia, to offer up -- let him know he had to postpone that second part of the trip and also extended an invite, a state visit to the prime minister to clearly come here. and so that is something that both sides of our teams are going to discuss and have that conversation. he also spoke to the prime minister of papa new guinea to let him know that we were postponing. so look, the president understands how important it is when we're talking about the budget and responsible bipartisan budget but also the debt limit which we should be done without conditions, should be done without negotiation. the president has been very clear, but we have an x date, we have an x date that the treasury

department put forth. so we have to get this done before the x date. and that's to congress. congress needs to get this done. so the conversation that he's been having with them is saying, hey, this is a critical moment. you all have to really come together and really deal with an issue, with a debt limit that has been done 78 times since 1960. we are not a dead beat nation. the president has held the line on that. and also we are having that second conversation of making sure that we have a budget that gets to his desk that he can sign. >> white house press secretary karine jean-pierre, thank you as always. good to see you. >> good to see you, mika. >> we appreciate you coming on this morning. >> all right. jen, i'm just wondering at this point, you know, they need to get it right here because i think both sides suffer if we go beyond the deadline. >> yeah. here is something we have known for 30 years because the first

big showdown between democrats and republicans on government shutdowns, debt limits was during the clinton administration in '95 and '96. public opinion usually favors the democrats and people trust the democrats more in these issues. but that's still -- that's great and karine made a good argument why the work requirements are not necessary. we don't want to push more people into poverty. i think the democrats can win that argument with public opinion, but at some point you have to pass a deal. and there's getting to a deal, which they seem close to being able to do but then there's a question of what can kevin mccarthy actually pass in the house republican caucus? and just him making a deal doesn't assure that he will be able to get it done. when he passed his default anti-default bill a few weeks ago it only passed with one vote and one was george santos who made a show of going down to the

well to vote to show just how necessary his one vote was going to be. so, you know, hakeem jeffries is standing on the sidelines with a discharge petition to say let's just pass the bill -- just pass the debt limit with no -- with nothing attached to that. unlikely that that could happen, but if you needed to get all the democrats aligned and five republicans that would pass a clean debt limit, that's their sort of tough but as an option. so, in addition to making this deal, the president and the democrats and mcconnell, you know, is careful to say we're not going to default. we're not going to default. he knows how devastating that is for republicans to own that they have to figure out how to get this through congress by june 1. still ahead on "morning joe," a look at the stories making front page headlines in newspapers across the country, including a new controversy in florida involving disney.

plus, republican congressman george santos, as jen mentioned, already been indicted on 13 federal charges. now he is facing expulsion from the house. we'll speak with democrat robert garcia about the resolution he introduced to oust santos from congress. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪♪ "morning joe" will be right back ♪

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second home run of the night. >> so that was the nonsense controversy surrounding aaron judge during monday night's game spurred on by the announcers to suggest that he was somehow getting a sign from the dugout to hit the home run. discountings fact that he had 62 of them last year. last night judge hit a two run go-ahead home run in the eighth inning that sat ershattered a s over the central field wall. i think he was a little upset. in peeking in the dugout. jays beat the blue jays 6-3. here is the new york papers. take a glance at that, eh. after judge hit the home run last night. and let's see how the "post" comes in. eyes of the storm. there was also some chat last night from the blue jays still, really digging into this, that the base coaches for the yankees aren't standing in the boxes where they are assigned, that

they may be up the field a little too far so that they can peek into the catcher and steal a sign. but no sign stealing will prevent you from hitting a home run from a meatball down the middle of the plate. >> to judge? he should have knocked it out of the stadium in so many ways. one has to ask the question given the blue jays and what they are asking of the yankees -- >> you didn't just say -- >> have the yankees been astroed? >> in the age of disinformation, eddie, you were just lecturing us in the last segment about how we need to trust each other more. and for you and blue jays to continue to try to make something out of nothing here -- >> thank you, jen. >> aaron judge just looking at his teammates to say simmer down in there, don't be yelling at the ump, and just trying to instill some integrity in the game. >> systemic electronic cheating on the one hand by the astros to steal a world series title versus aaron judge asking his teammates briefly with one

glance to calm down because they were yelling at the ump before he crushes another home run. no comparison. >> just a yes. just a question. >> i continue to love you. let's go to the nba playoffs. final moments game one of the western conference finals last night between the nuggets and lakers. >> up top to james. james back to reeves. off the three point line, gets inside. inside to james. stolen by jokic. 17 seconds to go. they got a foul. brown will bring it back out. and there is the foul with 10.9 remaining. >> well, two time mvp nikola jokic was brilliant last night there stealing the ball from lebron james to force the lakers turnover in the final seconds of regulation to seal a series opening victory. not pictured, jokic leading denver with a 34 point triple double as nuggets overcame a 40

point effort from l.a.'s anthony davis to win game one of the western conference finals. 132-126. jokic there misses a free throw. the teams remain in denver for game two tomorrow night. we're working on our highlights. tomorrow the celtics host the heat in game one of the eastern conference finals. jonathan lemire, for people who haven't gotten a chance to watch jokic maybe because they are, i don't know, they are in denver, they are not on when people are awake on the east coast, my gosh is he a brilliant basketball player as he really show kissed last night. >> he is the best offensive player in the game by a lot. he does it all. scoring, passing. he is terrific. and denver is basically unbeatable at home this year. lakers made a big run, so we'll see whether they have made adjustments that they can carry forward or whether denver just took their foot off the gas. i'm not that you tried to keep the baseball highlights up there in new york and not come to me

here in washington. >> that was the plan, yes. we moved on. anything else on basketball? we really have to run. >> the culture of cheating with the yankees. just last night, their starter was thrown out of the game because sticky stuff was found on his hands. >> what are you going to do? >> and our friends at the "athletic" some of the best out there say yes, blue jays believe -- they acknowledge that the yankees starter was tipping his pitches that day. but they say that that is visible from the base coach positions and they think that the yankees were finding a way to signal that to the hitters. that is their theory. yankees dispute that. >> so is your analysis that aaron judge needs help by cheating to hit home runs? is that your analysis? >> my analysis is that the yankees should be probably disbanded from multiple cheating incidents we have seen in multiple nights north of the border. >> clear eyed analysis. >> sorry to put that on your

conscience. >> from boston red sox homer jonathan lemire. >> many people are saying he should be suspended. >> where is the red sox in standings? >> just behind the yankees. both of us looking up. >> i'd like to talk trash, but we're in fourth place. so it is not great. but we're climbing. actually we're tied for third now with the blue jays about moving on up. coming up next here, senator blumenthal will talk about the future of artificial intelligence after he showed how chatgpt can easily create misinformation. eate misinformation

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my question to you is will you pardon the january 6 rioters who were convicted of federal offenses? >> i am inclined to pardon many of them. i can't say for every single one because a couple of them probably they got out of

control. what they have done to these people, they persecuted these people. and yeah, my answer is i am most likely, if i get in, i will most likely -- i would say it will be a large portion of them. you know, they did a very -- [ applause ] and it would be very early on. they have been living in hell right now. >> i think that it is virtually treasonist for the president to say that he would pardon people who were trying to disrupt the work of congress. it is another example of why he is not fit to be president. if anybody wants to know what a trump administration would look like when he is pardoning the people who rioted on january 6, i think that is all you need to know. >> i mean, anyone surprised he said that. also it is not surprising. trump's former national security adviser john bolton with those comments about donald trump's suggestion that he will pardon january 6 rioters. meanwhile elon musk is making headlines for comments about a prominent democrat donor.

we'll show you his response to the controversy. plus a major upset in a mayoral race. we'll explain why donna deegan's win in jacksonville, florida is significant for the democratic party. and the mayor alexandria will join us later this hour. jonathan lemire, jen, and paul all still with us. and we have also mike barnicle and also david rode. and joe will be here in a moment. but first, former donald trump adviser steve bannon is blasting special counsel john durham's report into the fbi even as most other republicans claim that it vindicates their long running conspiracy theory about a deep state plan to bring down the former president. speaking on his podcast yesterday, bannon ripped

durham's report for failing to recommend criminal charges. or even present a strong legal argument that could lead to charges against those named in his four year investigation. >> people come to me all the time, steve, why don't you spend more time on durham. why don't you -- correct me if i'm wrong, brother, but that is the epic failure of durham that shows you when you say the courts, there has to be some kind of driver prosecuting -- there has to be a prosecutorial attitude in the courts. court won't sit there like gods and deal it to be true. you have to bring cases before them. isn't this the epic failure of -- am i missing it? i'm not a lawyer, but isn't this pic failure of durham? >> david, you cover national security among other things. your thoughts on this overall. >> it is disappointing. i think that it is responsibility on everyone's

part when a special counsel comes out with a report to accept that there is basic facts here. robert mueller said he did not find enough evidence to accuse the trump campaign of coordinating or colluding with russia. and some democrats were disappointed and still think that something was missed. but you have to i think accept those facts for the future of our democracy. so to have steve bannon declaring that there was a giant deep state conspiracy that i wrote a book about is just false and reckless and dangerous. you know, this is what i worry could eventually spark violence. so again, i'm a journalist and i'm biased, but there are basic facts here and i give durham credit for not indicting anybody else. he criticized the fbi but he didn't layout a giant conspiracy theory and he deserves credit for that. >> so the durham investigation lasted four years almost to the day of its report being published. cost almost $7 million. got 300 pages or so. but not a whole lot new in

there. didn't name names. didn't suggest new indictments. what is the end result of all this as you look through this big document, after four years, what did we learn? >> again i'm trying to be glass half full. for republicans who felt president trump was treated unfairly, there was evidence that maybe the fbi moved too quickly, that they should have started a preliminary investigation. >> which they conceded. >> they have. but the broader message is that when you hear donald trump claiming that he was the victim of the crime of the century, that there is no evidence of this. to believe that he didn't feel he had enough evidence to present to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that there was some kind of deep state conspiracy, so let's move forward. let's not stop, you know, living in this conspiracy theory where you are trying to average up maybe steve bannon's ratings and voter turnout. >> jonathan lemire, your

thoughts. >> i mean, republicans, aside, some republicans are trying to claim victory out of this, that they are trying to allege that durham did find evidence of wrongdoing of a deep state conspiracy. notice the warnings to the fbi, while ignoring that the fbi already made a bunch of the changes durham suggested, but it will continue to fuel the distrust of so many american institutions by so many on the right. and this is from donald trump's playbook. he has from day one attacked the fbi, the justice department, attacked of course congress, sometimes the supreme court. and he gets his followers to believe him. and this is going to allow him, people on the right say to me, to further paint this as a conspiracy against him which we'll hear more of in the months ahead as likely the indictments pile up. that special counsel jack smith is working on the january 6 probe and the classified

documents found at mar-a-lago. and this is -- trump will use this as more fuel on the fire to suggest that it is biased, that it is rigged, that he is being persecuted. and also look for doj's eventual decision on the hunter biden decision and whether the president will face any sort of charges. and so i agree with what david said. this feels like it is kindling. just building back towards potential, you know, not just political disagreement, maybe even political violence. >> you know, joe is joining us, and these investigations among other things are what trump and his followers use to take a baseball bat to facts and the truth. no matter what the outcome, they just use it. biggest impact, you could argue, there are a lot of parts of our democratic norms that are absolutely negatively impacted by this behavior, but our

institutions, the fbi, the institutions that are built to make americans safe amgd they and they raise questions that don't exist about all of them. their way to basically desensitize americans torld towards putting truth in their own direction so that they can use the investigations against democrats. i don't know how far it goes. we're about to have a conversation about ai. but that gets terrifying. >> yeah, i've been here an hour and a half and she hasn't let me talk. >> i'm sorry. >> i was out there for a while, right? >> raising your hand. >> i called tj. >> his microphone isn't working? >> i called tj and he is listening on the radio, hi, t

j, get me on the set. i took a midnight train in georgia to get here. and he was like i'm not even in the studio, i'm driving to north carolina for my son's graduation. so it is that bad that you can mess things up even from north carolina. remember when we used to blame him when he was working for cbs? >> yeah, he was working for a different network for a while. way to go, tj. >> yeah, he had those things where you could control -- >> nice of you to show up. >> thank you, sweetie. so listen, here is the deal. i understand you are not catastrophizing. when steve bannon attacks american institutions, well, you know, whether that is something to worry about. if you are steve bannon i guess. how many times is that guy going to go to jail? the fbi will be around a lot longer than steve bannon is. but they keep doing all of these things. right? >> yeah. >> and these things that are deeply offensive to most

americans. and i just wonder when it will start having an impact at the polls. right? when is kansas going to go deep blue in the most important referendum ever? when will wisconsin wake up to this madness and start electing more than just right wing judges? it's happening, isn't it. >> i think we'll start seeing it in 2017, 18, 19 -- >> no, but you look -- and i understand we've been catastrophizing about all these things for years. and for years there have been dire consequences. i'm from florida. jacksonville is a -- i mean, that is a republican strong hold as far as -- i guess for 30 years they have dominated that seat. and you look at the fact that

remember last year they lost in jacksonville, florida, they lost in kansas, they have lost in kentucky, they have lost in -- where else? they got crushed in wisconsin. i mean, there are consequences that we keep saying it. we keep saying it. republicans, there aren't just enough sane republicans i guess in the base to actually vote for people that don't believe in conspiracy theories. and they pay the price repeatedly. >> and we'll hear from the mayor elect donna deegan in just a moment, a democrat who ran and won, defeated a republican in a place that joe biden actually won but he was the first democrat who won in a long, long time. so you are starting to see the fallout of some of the policies and some of the losing that ron desantis has been talking about in his criticism of donald trump. >> and this is right in desantis' backyard. after republicans had declared the democratic party dead. they are not dead.

it is just you have to actually try to win an election to win an election and nobody decided in the democratic party that they would try to win anything in 2020 and that is what happens. >> i'm happy to hear your cogent points after an hour of silence. >> they wouldn't let me on. >> it has happened to me. >> joe has been in the bullpen for an hour and a half. >> let me ask you a question. you go to little league games. you take your kids to school. things like that. how often have you heard the refrain from ordinary people, and this is not ordinary around here people somehow think because you are on tv you have the answers to everything. we don't obviously. >> what? >> i don't think anybody thinks that. >> not one person thinks i have the answers. >> how many times have people come up to you at the grocery store, wherever, and say the little following -- what is happening to our country now? >> i mean, it is a lot. but i've noticed a sea change. and a lot of people don't

believe in anecdotal evidence. my political career, i was worn on anecdotal evidence. i did not have the money to get any polls. i knocked on 10,000 doors. but i'll tell you after about three or four doors, i knew what most of the people in the district were thinking. you go to four doors and three say the same exact things and they don't know each other, you know that you have found issue number one. i would tell you i've mied in traveling, i've noticed going to little league baseball game, going, you know, to my son's football practice, i've noticed in grocery stores, there is just a sea change. i've noticed in airports. there is just a sea change. and i'm not saying that anybody ever threw tomatoes at me walking through extra trumpy airports, but there is a huge difference. people are coming out going,

hey, you know, i'm a republican, but, man, we got to strt start winning again. they will say i know you didn't like him. i voted for trump twice. i like a lot of things he did but we have to move on. they will actually say know what you are talking about. far different than how it was in 2017 and 2018. these republicans are exhausted. you can't underline that fact enough. they are exhausted by trump's craziness. and we were talking on the cnn town hall meeting, matthew bartlett, you go up to new hampshire primaries and matthew is around and been there for a long time, he said tv did not pick up the deep unease in that audience. i heard this from somebody else too. yeah, there were people clapping and cheering. but there were also people in their seats going like what the -- i can't say it. well, i can and i have once. but people just sitting back

there going oh, my god. you know, maybe he had the majority of the crowd. but he was offending a lot of republicans at the same time. >> i went to a trump event in iowa, like a rally relatively recently, cpac and other things, you see and talking to people afterwards, they will say, oh, i really wish he would layoff on the election denial, we got to move on. i really wish, you know, we had another option or i wish that he could stop doing this or that. you see that exhaustion. and i 100% believe in the anecdotal evidence that it is not just anecdotal, what people are saying to you in real life, right? like we were talking about ai and disinformation. like what people say to you in real life is how that shows where america really is. and they are exhausted. i guess that is why they elected a democrat in jacksonville. >> and another election, more proof that denying the results

of the 2020 election is not a winning platform. kentucky secretary of state michael adams easily won the state's republican primary defeating two challengers who had campaigned on claims of voter fraud. that was the message. one had said he personally saw hackers manipulate u.s. election results online. adams who helped to expand voting abscess in 2021 said that he is unwilling to indicator to conspiracy theorists in election administration even if it meant he would lose his job. so again, a losing proposition to look back at 2020 and say it was stolen or that the machines still are being toyed with. >> and david, think about it. i'm optimistic. i've always been optimistic. i know things look grim at times. but you look at the secretary of state, republican secretary of state who voted for donald trump twice. or you look at the people that

were on the board, election board in michigan that voted for donald trump twice. you look at brad raffensperger and kemp who were all in for trump. you look at all the federalist society judges dedicated their life to a more conservative court and a more conservative america. time and time again, they stepped up when they were needed and of course our patron saint dan quayle stepped up and did what was required to preserve our constitution, preserve the election. pretty incredible. and here we see it again. not on the upper west side of manhattan, but in kentucky. >> it is those republicans that deserve credit, particularly the judges. it was the judiciary that really held off trump after the election. bill barr turned and said no, this is not true. but what is disappointing the other two people here who responded to the durham report

was ron desantis and nikki haley. and they basically made the same conspiracy theory. ron desantis said he was going to do in and clean house in washington and not allow the fbi do these kind of things. and i guess there again searching for the trump base. >> and again i ask what sort of things. the sort of things that the fbi said that they would not do? >> there have been periods when the fbi has done terrible thing, but there is no evidence here of anything approaching what donald trump is claiming. and again sticking to facts, i think many republicans have turned the corner, but it is surprising to see the dynamic where desantis and haley are echoing the same. >> and we saw here with -- i don't want to say their name in a critical light because they are the paper of record for "morning joe," but there is a certain tabloid in new york, you

know, sort of like it is true, hillary spied on trump. "wall street journal" editorial page, i read it every day, they were going all in. >> again this morning, yeah, there you go. >> did they did it again? >> i think that is the one you are talking about. >> fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, won't get fooled again. [ laughter ] >> they obviously don't follow bush. i mean, the whack job, we went through this yesterday, is durham who has made a fool of himself time and time again. 24 jurors said no, enough. on his two cases. it is just incredible. and there will be some people who believe this. there will be some people who believe this. >> oh, yeah.

that's right. >> but not enough to win an election. but enough to run the republican party off the edge of the cliff. >> bannon was complaining about what durham didn't do. fox news, the "journal," the "post," nikki haley, ron desantis, they are all picking it up and just alleging that durham -- what durham said is that this is true, that there was some conspiracy between the clinton campaign and the fbi to participate in a crime of the century to try to steal the election from donald trump which obviously didn't happen. i got to meet with those good folks at the durham special counsel and be interviewed by them. it was very thorough. you know, i spent hours with them and they were very thorough in asking all of the questions, all of the different theories. also, thorough and fair. and they made the right

conclusion here. but a lot of people will think that that is what came out of this. >> just nonsense. four years. this guy had his -- longer than any other special counsel. four years investigating the investigators. he made a fool of himself. he destroyed his reputation. he got humiliated in court. we talked about it on the air. i remember reading one of his pleadings and literally for an entire day. i've read a lot of pleadings in my life. and mika will tell you i'm not the type of person to get on the phone and say hi, i'm reading pleading from the superior court of kansas and this third paraphernalia graph -- i don't do that. but this was so baffling and so badly written.hernalia graph --o that. but this was so baffling and so badly written.ernalia graph -- that. but this was so baffling and so badly written.graph -- i don't . but this was so baffling and so badly written.paragraph -- i do. but this was so baffling and so badly written. s of trying to schlep a conspiracy theory in there.

it was just baffling. investigatings investigators.to conspiracy theory in there. it was just baffling. investigatings investigators. he was already 0 for 2. he didn't even have any new recommendations for the fbi. why? because the fbi had looked at this a couple years ago and said you know what, we need to change a couple things and make sure this doesn't happen again. and now you have jackals running around like let's defund the fbi, let's defund people that track the terrorists to make sure kids are safe, that shopping malls don't get blown up. i mean, just absolute lunacy. and again, for anybody that thinks that i'm catastrophizing, i'm not. you will just keep losing elections. it is just getting boring. why don't you get smart. stop with the conspiracy theories. but now they want to defund the fbi. >> maybe the largest element of it in terms of impact is what

john durham did to his own reputation the last for years. and the other thing about it, the fbi, defund the fbi, i would bet you that four out of seven days of the week when the president of the united states gets overnight intelligence report and looks at it each morning, that the growth of white nationalism in this country is right up there almost at the top in terms of threats to our national security. internally how do we monitor the growth of white nationalism in this country. guess what, it is the fbi largely doing that. yes, they have done horrific things in the history, but we need the fbi. other aspect of the investigation that is interesting is to my mind it represents a couple of different universes. there is the universe of politics and the universe of accusations and conspiracy theories and trying to keep those ongoing.

where that party seems for thrive on it. the other aspect is america. america is not a rear view country. america is looking forward. this is all rearview mirror stuff. i don't know how they thrive on this. >> they are always talking about the last election instead of the next election. always. and mika, going back to -- i was talking about i couldn't afford polls so i knocked on a lot of doors. i was 29 when i started running. i was running against a guy in his 50s, had incredible experience. and i found out real quickly people did not care about bios, they didn't care about what you had done in your long life, they wanted to know what you would do for their life over the next two

years. and you focus on the future, you shape the future, you win elections. republicans especially donald trump doing just the opposite here. >> for sure. and they don't have time for all the division. they want someone who will move forward and be positive. and i haven't seen a republican yet that can do that. we'll turn now to lawmakers on capitol hill looking to regulate artificial intelligence. yesterday a senate judiciary subcommittee held a hearing on the growing technology and its risks. chief executive of the company behind chatgpt testified and urged lawmakers to regulate the increasingly powerful ai technology. joining us now, chair of that subcommittee hearing, democratic senator richard blumenthal of connecticut. good to have you on the show this morning. i'm curious what did you learn

further during the hearing and if the ceo offered any sensible solutions that could make it safer? >> thanks for have me. i think sam altman, senior executive from ibm and another leading expert from the private sector all agreed that we need rules and regulations in light of the really scary prospects raised by ai. not only in team fakes and voice cloning but also dislocaing people from jobs, the need for more training. and sam altman was really as soon asly sincerely alarmed and urging us to maybe have some kind of licensing, rules targeting risks.

a federal agency to do this kind of regulation, even provide nutrition labels and warnings. so i think that it was a good beginning by no means the conclusion. and it is laying the ground rourke for action going forward. and there clearly is a need for action. >> senator, xwl. i think that lot of people listen to the testimony from the ceo of chatgpt who was iploring you guys to do something. what legislation can control the genie that is clearly out of the battle and trying to legislate and help young people with facebook and snapchat and instagram and all the problems that come with that? what kind of legislation could possibly put guardrails around artificial intelligence? >> first of all, avoid the

mistakes of the past. and i'm involved now in trying to correct some of those abuses on social media as we've talked about. kids online safety act which would help protect children against the toxic content driven at them by algorithms like ai devices and learning from those mistakes. and number one, hold them responsible. accountability is really important temperature second, transparency. open up the black boxes so that we know how ai works. and limits on use. there are areas where the risk is too high for ai to be permitted. for example elections and the potential for disinformation on the day of the election or places where people are supposed to go to vote. and so these kinds of risk targeted rules from a federal agency. maybe licensing.

a scheme of permission much like we do with drugs. the fda reviews and licenses drugs in effect. so these kinds of ideas i think are practical. >> so, senator, how do members of the united states house of representatives go about proposing legislation in the culture of at official intelligence where more is unknown about the topic than is known? how do we do that? >> more is unknown than is known because the technology is advancing so quickly. so we need to work together. and one of the encouraging features of yesterday's hearing was strong bipartisanship. senator hawley is ranking member on that committee. and if you close your eyes, you

probably couldn't have told whether it was a republican or democrat asking the question or making comments. and if you closed your eyes at the beginning of the hearing, you couldn't have told that we were playing a voice clone of myself in introducing the hearing. it was eerie, even creepy. and no one in fact could tell that it was a clone. i think that it is one of the more scary moments in the united states senate hearing yesterday. >> all right. senator blumenthal, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. i thought somebody had done it with barnicle's voice. >> creepy. >> you don't think that he'd rather have a hologram so he didn't have to come in? >> i know.

but to show you how this is everywhere. i was able to go last night to jack's middle school graduation. and they had a senior come in and talk and say that you are going into high school, and he gives all the advice, and then last thing he says, and, oh, yeah, the honor code here, very rigorous. don't even think of using chatgpt on your term paper or you'll be in trouble. he goes trust me, i've got friends. and everybody laughed. sort of a knowing laugh that like this is happening. my daughter who is in college, it is like it is all over the place in college. it is everywhere. sort of the new thing. >> and we were talking before, i was joking that mike should sell his avatar and that he could live forever and constantly write columns. the jokes won't be as good, but,

yes -- my fear is again back to politics and durham, deep fake videos. you know, oh, the -- >> it is crazy. >> the political ads that can be run by either party will just completely confuse voters, you know, and again, jonathan mentioned this earlier, i think many republicans are moving on. i think more and more people are sort of accepting basic fact and moving forward. i'm optimistic about the country. but i worry about extremes, about individuals who if there are deep fakes and conspiracy theories, they will react to them. >> and the people who see the fake videos may never hear the truth. they may continue to have that reinforced. and to your point about chatgpt in colleges, and sort of having to think about -- rethink about how you assess students and that

the essay may not be the thing anymore. you may have to come in and show me that you know. so that you know did that student actually write that paper. >> and it is dangerous politically. i remember at the end of jeb bush's campaign in 1994, there were robocalls that went around to senior citizens the night before the election all over the state of florida saying that jeb was going to cut your social security and medicare. he was running for governor and he couldn't do that, but it made a huge difference. people went to the polls and it was a very tight race. and most florida observers believe that made the difference that year. now imagine if it were 1994 and people saw jeb bush talking to them saying, you know, social security and medicare, trashing

the programs. and you see the night before the election hi, this is jeb bush, i have an important message that you need to hear. our budgets need cutting. and then you have somebody doing it. i mean, that is coming to an election near you very soon. >> and the ultimate nightmare will be what has occurred over the past two or three years about a rigged election and joe biden is not legitimate president and donald trump actually won. that will seem like playing patty cake compared to what might happen in the course of the next 18 to 20 months. >> and mika, you talk about unsuspecting old people. a year or so ago, i saw the guy who does the deep fakes on the tom cruise video. and i went oh, my god, i never knew tom cruise could play guitar. he sounds like dave matthews. and i'm like this is -- you

start googling and you find out it is a deep fake. and it is so realistic, it is frightening. and of course that is just if for entertainment and confuse old people like me. but i get confused by everything. >> we'll get you warm milk. >> i'm just glad you showed up at the right studio. >> i know, i was walking in to fox across the street. they were like great, but they sebts sent me to secaucus. >> great. >> did you go to the outlet mall? >> a deep cut right there. >> willie, joe -- >> only five minutes away. where are you? >> do you remember those days in

secaucus. >> i do. by the way -- and i know alex wants his segment to go longer. but we have to go out to the old msnbc studio. >> the mlb network now. >> i know. >> i don't think that i could do it. >> beautiful. and they built on to it. they have an actual mini field. >> and you can play whiffle ball. >> we have space here to play whiffle ball. >> yeah, need the also green monster. go deep over the wall. >> david, thank you for being on. >> and if you bounce off the rapner wall, you will have to run really fast. don't you think? >> i agree. >> i think the thing is

pickleball. we could do a pickleball court. >> see, i've heard about it, i don't want to know anything about it. >> no, no, no, my friend jackie loves -- they have a pickleball court and they have so much fun. >> keep that hippie stuff away from me. you can play hacky sack out front. >> no, you have to have talent. still ahead -- >> i can't do it. >> -- we'll be joined by two more u.s. senators, jeanne shaheen and michael bennet will be our guests. and plus we mentioned florida democrats pulling off an election upset in jacksonville last night. mayor elect donna deegan will join us straight ahead. ahead

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the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. what used to an a swing state now the democratic party in florida is a hollow shell. it is like a dead carcass on the side of the road. i mean, we have beat the left in

the state of florida. [ applause ] >> wow, a dead carcass on the side of the road. and that carcass sort of sprung up and ate the tractor trailer that was driving by last night. devoured it in one gulp and maybe went back to the side of the road again as a fair warning to cocky republicans that actually when democrats try to win elections, unlike what they did in florida in 2020, they win elections. >> yeah. that was six week ban florida governor ron desantis declaring the democratic party dead. >> how does that work for you in the meatball line? >> it may have been premature because last night democrats scored their biggest election victory in years in jacksonville. democrat donna deegan shocked the state with an upset win in her bid to become the first

female mayor of florida's most populist city. deegan won 52% to 48% in the race to replace the state's current republican mayor who is term limited. and the new mayor elect of jacksonville donna deegan is joining us now. first of all, congratulations. it must feel good this morning. >> thank you, yes, it feels very good. very grateful. >> so i want to know what you think it was that gave you the edge in this election. >> well, i'm a fifth generation jacksonville native. i have an evening news anchor here for 25 years and after i was diagnosed with breast cancer three times, i started a foundation that brings in people from all over the country to our city. and so people know me. we've lived a shared life in jacksonville.

so i felt that year and a half ago when we started out on the grass roots campaign of knocking on as many doors as we can, having as many town hall meetings, talking to people eyeball to eyeball, i felt like we had the relationships to be able to bring it in and i'm grateful that jacksonville agreed. >> mayor elect deegan, it is up to us to sit around here and talk about national politics. i know that is no concern of your. you are concerned about the issues that impact your neighbors, people in the community. i'm wondering, jacksonville, are you facing a lot of the same headwinds that other cities are facing regarding quality of life issues, concerns about crime, concerns about homelessness, concerns about quality of life? >> absolutely. i mean, everybody wants quality of life. and what we've seen here over the decades is we've seen a city that is on a river, on an ocean

with a couple of interstates running through but we get passed by cities like tampa and charlotte and greenville. and the question keeps coming back as to why. and i think if you look at crime in our area, we have a murder rate that is four times per capita that of new york city. we have crumbling infrastructure. we have neighborhoods that have been left out for decades. and the message we brought to the streets was we want to bring the people into city government. we've had a city government here that has been lacking in a lot of transparency and frankly in bringing people in. and so we felt that if we could bring those messages that i want to deal with basically fixing those things that are broken and bringing people in, i think that people really heard that message and resonated with it. and the wonderful thing about this campaign was that we won voters from all across the political spectrum. that was very important to me because i just think that the divisiveness has gotten so incredibly bad that if we don't

start to try to bring people together. in jacksonville, we've always had a great tradition of that. i was very concerned about where it was going and obviously around the country that is a concern. but here is my heart and i wanted the people to come together and i think that we will. >> and you led me perfectly to my question. as i was reading about your campaign, i kept seeing the word unity, unity, unity. and in this time of division in our politics, you talked about of course i'll work with republicans, of course everybody is welcome here. even last night you said sure governor desantis backed my opponent, but of course i'll work with him, he is our governor. how important do you think that was in your win but also going forward saying i'm not here to demonize the other size, we have to get stuff done? >> well, i think it is incredibly important. and what is more, it is the truth. it is how i feel in my heart. as a person who was a journalist, i always brought

everybody's voice in the to the room. cancer is not a red or blue issue. so my message from the very beginning is we need to have a city that works for all of us and where all of us have a voice. and so that doesn't mean that you just make it us versus them. as grateful as i am is to have the democrats have a seat at the table it really was about bringing people together. i do think that is the way forward and i think people are used to that from me. i think people across the political spectrum saw me as an honest broker. i've been here my whole life. my family has been here for generations. we know each other and they know where my heart is and my values are. and my values are jacksonville values. i just want our city to be successful and bring everybody in. >> all right. mayor elect donna deegan, thank you so much. >> congratulations. >> congratulations. greatly appreciate you being here. and good luck. >> i tell you what, if that were a republican saying that, an independent saying, democrat, doesn't matter.

i mean, that is a great message. and a great message because the messenger you know, it seems to come from the heart in a way that had to connect to voters of all stripes. >> i was really impressed by her. and her resume, kari lake. right? same resume as kari lake. long time news -- >> you scared me. >> the look on your two faces right now -- >> i was like what are you talking about? >> but in terms of -- she was excellent. reflecting what people care about, a long standing member o listening to people and she brought people together on the apolitical issue like breast cancer. that is a great path to try to unify a city on -- you know, everything is so divisive right now. mayors can do that, they can bring people together on issues that are not politicized at the national level. but that is just -- game

recognizing game. she's talented. >> game recognizing game. and that is like -- that is what we're talking about. people say that america is -- eh, eh. we can get along. it is up to people that are running the cities and states. i mean, again going back to when i first got elected, you know, people were like he is a right wing nut, he is this, he is that. i spent my first like year doing nothing but holding town hall meetings and talking to democrats and talking to republicans who voted against me. and telling everybody i'm here for you. going through neighborhoods where i may have gotten 10% of the vote. saying what do you need. i'm here for everybody. it is amazing. you go from, you know, wondering whether you will win or not to getting 80% of the vote or 70% of the votes. that is what i don't understand

about republicans. this is not hard, y'all. this is not a hard game. be compassionate. give a damn about the people that you represent and represent them. don't try to divide them. bring them i think, you know, can talk about the political troubles that we have across the nation, but we also have to talk about those extraordinary moments of possibility. the eruptions of the possible. i was really impressed here. she doesn't talk about herself. she mentioned it's not about democrats. it's not about republicans. it's about these kitchen tables on the ground. we know this is really important that a democrat has won the mayoral seat in jacksonville, florida. but when she talks about housing, she's talking about infrastructure, she's talking about health care, when she's talking about the economy in jacksonville, she's talking about these kitchen table issues that are going to affect communities across the railroad tracks, across the divide. that's important. we don't need to be bogged down in republican and democrat.

we need to address the everyday circumstances of everyday ordinary people as we try to imagine a future together. >> a fascinating election in philadelphia last night, a really competitive democratic primary. a woman who people did not think was going to win, cherelle parker won, and she ran with a promise of hiring more cops. that is a city, you talk about quality of life issues. our good friend mark pal mor rop lis goes and rides around cruisers with cops late at night, he's just horrified by what he sees. he's horrified by what these cops have to do every night, the danger that they put themselves in every night, and here you have in philadelphia, just like mayor adams in philadelphia, somebody who wasn't supposed to win. who ended up saying vote for me, i'm going to hire more cops, and out of nowhere she won in philly. >> that's real life in america, unlike the chatgpt conference

that was held here about 45 minutes ago about john durham and donald trump's cnn appearance, mayor deegan, they talk about what's happening in real people's lives, police, fire, schools, taxes, jobs, that's what's going on in every city in the country and every town in the country, and we ought not to lose sight of that fact. >> mika, that's why you have people when they talk about education, they're talking about banning books or -- yeah. or saying if you -- if you're writing a book or reading a book about roberto clemente or hank aaron, librarian's scared they're going to get fired so they take them off the shelf. basic classroom size, how are my kids learning? are we doing enough to get the best teachers into the profession? these are the basics that

unfortunately a lot of republicans who are going out around playing to a small sliver of their base, trying to be more anti-woke than the last person, they're missing the trees for the forest or the forest for the trees or however it would work in this certain situation. the forest for the trees. >> forest for the trees. >> yeah. and these are -- this stuff is really playing out, the banning books and don't say gay. there's a florida teacher who was suspended for showing a disney movie in her class. we're going to have that story coming up. it's a complete mess. but first, japan's consul general in new york, ambassador miki mori joins the table. "morning joe" is coming right back. so, long live family time. long live dreams. and long live you.

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for being with us this morning, a big moment for japan to host the g-7 in hiroshima. tell us what we should expect as president biden and other world leaders arrive there this week. >> well, this is a summit, a g-7 summit being held in hiroshima, which is prime minister kishida's hometown, and hiroshima represent the history of the world, long use of the nuclear weapons for hiroshima,

and other g-7 leaders will send out the -- we should in any ways. but other than that based on the current challenges the world faces in terms of geopolitics in eastern europe or east asia, we have a lot of things to -- for the leaders starting with war, invasion of ukraine by russians. so g-7 will send out stick to t international order based on the rule of law. and we will reach out to the global to have more consolidated policy towards the war. >> and how just appropriate that we're going to have the g-7 this

year in japan, the same year that japan like germany has decided with the world together, everyone's decided together that japan can have a more muscular defense posture, when defending itself, d across asia and as needed, badly needed counterbalance to the rise of china's influence across not just asia but the globe. talk about that. >> not only china but the world particularly in east asia, situation has been moving. we have seen a number of north korean missile tests, 50, many, many times last year and this year on and that china has been building up its own military muscle, conducting a number of exercises, military exercises in

the area surrounding japan, and china's own nuclear posture is something that we have to worry about. >> and are the japanese people, are they -- do they look at it as a positive development that japan is going to be able to be more actively involved in building their defense, being able to protect themselves along with other nato allies? >> yes, people are very much aware of where we are right now, the situation in china, the situation in the taiwan strait, the situation in eastern europe. they are very much aware of where we are, so that's why we have received very strong support from the people of japan. >> i mean, you look at, again, what's happened in japan, in guam, in the philippines, in australia, and you combine that

with nato and the strengthening and the enlargement of nato and you really do have western democracy in a more powerful position now from japan to washington than it has been in a really long time. >> i mean, it was because it was over a year ago that we were sort of surprised to see all, you know, not just europe, but to see japan as well like lining up to support ukraine. is the concern among the japanese people, is it about -- do they recognize russia as an aggressor and that is concerning about what's happening in ukraine, or is it how it relates to japan and concerns about what may happen in your region and what that may signify for china's design. what's on people's minds in japan? >> well, we were surprised that was at the time, the invasion of

ukraine was the order we have been in the past decades have been broken by the violation of the basic principles, rule of law, democracy, and use of military strength to change the status. that's why japanese government and other g-7 leaders have been strongly against this enormous attack by russia, and we need to react to the situation. >> mr. ambassador, before we let you go, i live on the upper west side of manhattan and i noticed on saturday a japan parade passing through the neighborhood. tell us about that. >> yeah, glad you are available. we had a big japan parade last saturday where we present a number of japanese cultural examples including foods, culture.

hello kitty was there, anime and mayor adams was present. that's what we want to bring about to the city of new york and to the united states. >> and mr. ambassador, if you could, just as a favor, i would greatly appreciate it, could you do something to help ohtani come to boston and play for the red sox next year? if so, we would greatly appreciate it. >> we hear many voices from the new york mets' fans. >> yankees. >> we'd like to put in a bid on the bronx if you could put in a good work. ambassador mikio mori, the g-7 opens this week in january. thank you very much. >> my pleasure. a retired u.s. army special forces soldier has been identified as the american citizen killed by russian artillery in the embattled city of bakhmut this week. nbc news foreign correspondent molly hunter has more. >> reporter: this morning the grim confirmation that another american has died fighting in

ukraine. overnight nicholas mamers aunt, the 45-year-old veteran from boise, idaho, passed away. yesterday a video posted by a pro-russian blogger shows yef againny prigozhin standing over a dead american soldier in bakhmut, posting a driver's license and what appeared to be genuine u.s. documents for nicholas maimer. the u.s. state department said they were aware of the report but offered no confirmation. he was a decorated veteran, his service record shows he joined the u.s. army in 1996. maimer traveled to ukraine in 2022 posting this update. >> and i'm putting together a training program for the territorial defense and that is going to allow me to hopefully save some lives. >> reporter: the fiercest fighting today over the ruins of

what was once the eastern city of bakhmut. the ukrainians say they have recaptured nearly eight square miles in the last few days. overnight president zelenskyy trying to capitalize on the momentum with european allies. >> and that we in unity will give 100% in any field when we have a goal to protect our people and our europe. >> reporter: meanwhile, as the fighting shows no sign of letting up, the cia sensing an opportunity inside russia where privately some may disagree with the 15-month war. yesterday the agency posting a dramatic video aimed at recruiting russians, people around you may not want to hear the truth, the video says, but we do. >> nbc's molly hunter with that report. we turn now to the chief executive of the company behind the popular tool chatgpt who testified at a senate judiciary subcommittee hearing and urged lawmakers to regulate the

increasingly powerful ai technology. nbc news correspondent tom costello has more. >> reporter: underscoring the promise and peril posed by artificial intelligence. >> we have seen what happens when technology outpaces regulation. >> reporter: tuesday's senate hearing started with a voice that sounded like senator richard blumenthal but wasn't. >> that voice was not mine. the audio was an ai voice cloning software trained on my floor speeches. >> reporter: the words written by ai program chatgpt, the man behind chatgpt opened ai's ceo sam altman is now pleading with congress to regulate ai before it's too late. >> my worst fears are that we cause significant, we, the field, the technology, the industry cause significant harm to the world. if this technology goes wrong, it can go quite wrong. >> reporter: ai's peril is far more than stealing a singer's voice and compose ago new song

and drafting love letters and college essays. it could create counterfeit humans, steal identities, spread fake news and medical advice. undermine elections, democracies, even start wars, and there's wide agreement that humans could start losing their jobs to ai. >> how do we find meaning in life. >> reporter: billionaire elon musk who helped fund open ai is among hundreds of tech leaders calling for the industry to hit pause. last night he talked exclusively to cnbc's david faber. >> there's a strong probability that it will make life much better and there's some chance that it goes wrong, and destroys humanity. hopefully that chance is small, but it's not zero. >> reporter: for years hollywood has envision add dark future controlled by computers. >> what am i? >> reporter: while i robot may be extreme, the man known as the god father of ai dr. jeffrey

hinton recently left his job at google to issue a stark warning. >> i think it's possible that people are just passing phase in the evolution intelligence. >> people are a passing phase. in other words, computers will take over? >> yes, that's possible. >> reporter: an existential threat to all of us. >> nbc's tom costello with that report, and joining us now democratic senator michael bennet of colorado. i would love to talk to you about how this could impact intelligence and ultimately impact global security. >> well, you know on that happy note on had that report -- >> yeah. >> -- i think it's a reminder that we didn't even regulate the social media platforms properly. >> i know. >> here in this country, and my constituents are demanding that we finally put the american people in a negotiation with these massive tech platforms,

and now you have sam altman himself saying that we should be regulating ai, which is the newest iteration of that. this is why i have long said that we should have a new agency like the fda, like the fcc to do the regulation from anti-trust to the national security issues you raised, to the mental health issues that are a huge concern for me as a former school summit. anybody who's raised kids during this era of social media knows that there's been a mental health effect that has ripped through adolescence all across our country, and we've done nothing about it. so i think maybe this is an opportunity when we can come together as democrats and republicans, stand up for the american people, say to our teenage kids that we're not expecting their student councils to negotiate these deals with mark zuckerberg and others and that we're actually going to put just as we have with all new

technologies that have come forward, we're not going to accept the idea that this is the end of humanity or that we can't somehow regulate this in a way that makes sense, but we are going to put, you know, this democracy in a negotiation with these large tech platforms, and in some cases, the pirates that run them. >> senator bennet, good morning. ai right now is touching every field. it's touching academics, journalism. elon musk says there's a non-zero chance it could end the world. i want to talk about how it's impacting your profession, politics, as we're heading into another election year and the rising fears that ai could be used and deep fake technologies could be used for nefarious purposes in political ads. >> there's deep concern about that. i mean, i think it's only one dimension of what we're dealing with, but that's a concerning one, and we are already feeling as anybody who was here on january 6th was feeling, we are

already feeling the effects of technology corroding our democracy, and this is a time just as we have in other eras in american history when we're going to have to stand up for the democracy, protect the democracy against these deep fakes. that's another thing where i think, you know, we need to legislate. what i worry about is a situation where congress decides that that's the most important thing or congress decides that anti-trust is the most important thing or that mental health is. it would be a miracle if we were able to do any one of those thing, but the reality is we have to cover the waterfront. the only way we're going to do that is with a new agency that's dedicated to this. that is the only way we're going to do it. if we had decided that congress was going to approve and disapprove all new drugs, all new medications, can you imagine what a disaster that would have been? and here we're in a situation

where the technology is moving much more quickly, much more rapidly, and this is why we need to have a body of experts in washington, d.c., to get this done, and i think we can get it done. >> senator, what do we do about the fact that elements of this technology, elements of artificial intelligence are already here and given corporate human nature, it might be that instead of having 150 people working in the front office that some aspect of artificial intelligence can be used to say, well, maybe we only need 75 people, and people lose their jobs almost overnight due to technology? >> i think, mike, you're already seeing that danger. i was with some people last night, you know, having conversations about this, and there is the prospect in realtime right now of both white collar and blue collar jobs going away in this transition. we faced technological upheavals before in general. we've been able to overcome

those upheavals. there's nothing that guarantees we're going to be able to figure that out. i think that's another reason why we can't be missing in action on this. washington's got to be here. that can't be the last hearing that we have. you know, this is something that we need to be focused on month after month after month until we put in place a regulatory framework that can actually ask and answer all of these questions. there's going to be disruption. there's no question about it, and there's going to be upside. but when the people that are involved in this themselves, the investors themselves are saying there is a non-trivial chance that this could disrupt humanity or end humanity, we ought to be paying attention to that. >> senator, before you go, i just want to ask you about your colleague, your republican colleague senator tommy tuberville and the issue of abortion that he apparently is using to even block military

nominations among other things. what is going on? can you explain exactly -- >> i can't. >> -- what's happening? >> in the history of america no senator has ever used their hold to hold up all the flag promotions at the department of defense. tommy tuberville is the first senator to do that, and why is he doing it? he's mad because the department of defense has said that if you are in the military and you need an abortion, we will pay for you to travel to another state. we will allow you to have paid leave instead of unpaid leave, and we're going to let you have a little extra time before you have to tell your commanding officer. that's it. it's not paying for abortion. it's not anything else. it's those three thing, and he wants to make it harder for people that are confronted with that incredibly difficult choice. so this is the aftermath of a 50-year campaign to overturn roe

versus wade, to strip the american people of their first freedom, our first fundamental right since reconstruction in this country, and they've won that battle for the moment. there are 18 states that have banned abortion since roe was overturned, nine with no exceptions for rape or incest. the state tommy tuberville comes from, alabama, is a state that has no exceptions for rape or incest. if you're a doctor, you're going to jail for 99 years. you're subject to 99 years if you perform an abortion, and what he's saying is that servicemen and women, servicewomen in particular who don't choose where they're going to serve, that if you are serving in a place like alabama, we can't even pay for you to go from one state to another as we can for other medical procedures like, you know, getting your foot operated on. >> right. >> or having your appendix out.

so you know, we were battling this out on the floor last night for an hour, i feel like my colleague is in this horrible cul-de-sac because he's taken a position that's so unpopular with the american people that it's almost hard to understand, and he's using a remedy holding up every single promotion of the u.s. flag officers that is staggering in its implications. seven former secretaries of defense, republicans and democrats, have said that this is affecting our military readiness. and by the way, i would say the supreme court's decision overturning roe versus wade among many other things it's done to this country is sacrificed our military readiness as well. so we're going to have to overcome this, and this is going to be a long, long fight that we have to win. >> democratic senator michael bennet, thank you very much for being on the show this morning, and let's continue this

conversation with democratic senator jeanne shaheen of new hampshire on that very topic. she introduced a new bill that would allow female service members who do not have a say in which state they serve to travel for access to abortion care. i have a hard time not asking, though, why tommy tuberville doesn't believe in women's health care and isn't supportive of women? does he think women are american citizens? i am completely confused as to why we're even having this conversation, especially for women who serve in the military. >> i couldn't agree more. it san outrage and the fact is over 17% of service members are women. 40% of them are stationed in states where they don't have access to comprehensive reproductive care, and for tommy tuberville to hold up all of the general officers in the military

for the first time ever in the senate's history is truly an outrage, and we need to see the republican caucus step in and say this is not acceptable, at a time when we're having trouble recruiting for the military to say that we're going to limit the ability of women to have access to full health care and discourage them from joining our military is just a threat to our national security. >> senator shaheen, it's jen palmieri, it's good to see you. >> nice to see you. >> it seems like this is impacting readiness in two ways. one is the holding up of promotions but then also there's how it impacts female service members, their family presumably as well. can you tell us a little more detail on how both of these problems are affecting the military? >> well, again, what secretary austin did in his proposal was

to say that women who need comprehensive reproductive care, who need abortion care are able to go to another state to take the time off, to take their spouse with them if they need that support and to have their expenses paid for as senator bennet says just as they would if they had some other health care issue that was not covered in the military care where they're stationed so this is really codifying secretary austin's proposal in a way that allows congress to weigh in on that, but the fundamental issue here is that what those people who are so extreme would do is say to women in the military who are putting their lives on the line that you can make life and death decisions about protecting this country, but you can't make

your own decisions about your own body and your own future with your family. that is just not acceptable. and not something that is going to encourage women to join the military at a time when we are dependent on women to -- recruitment of women to fill the numbers of people serving in the military. >> absolutely. >> thanks so much democratic senator jeanne shaheen, greatly appreciate it. you take that side of the story, mike, and also the other side of the story on the republicans trashing our military leaders. republicans trashing the chairman of the joint chiefs. republicans trashing the secretary of defense, republicans lying about our military being weaker than ever before for their own skewed political purposes, saying that they would rather america's military, the strongest in the

world, the strongest it's been relative to the rest of the world since 1945, they would rather them be more like russians because russians are real men. i mean, can you believe the stupidity of this group of people who just keep trashing the united states' military and discouraging people from actually getting in the military by their -- by their slander. >> well, i don't think it's stupidity, although it is stupid. i think it's more or less just blind adherence and fear of the leading candidate, leading republican candidate for the nomination of president of the united states. this time out his name is donald j. trump and they're afraid of what trump might say because trump is the leader in this. trump runs this country down almost daily with one comment or another, one text or another. he runs the military down

constantly and continually, has been doing it now for months in his campaign to be president again. so i don't think it's stupidity. it's just their so fearful of what trump might tweet about them that they go along with this slander. it's political slander. >> fascist. >> yeah, conservatives, mika, bumper stickers on their cars america love it or leave it, they said that because people on the far left were trashing united states military, like people on the far right are doing. because people on the far left in the 1960s would trash the intel community, much in the same way that people on the far right today 50 years later are trashing law enforcement officials left and right, not showing proper respect for cops, being on the side of rioters who beat the hell of police officers on january 6th. they just -- they seem, if you take them by their words, if you

take them by their leaders' words, donald trump talking about terminating the constitution and saying that the united states is the greatest threat to western civilization. that's just gross. that's just perverse. that's twisting reality and twisting history. those are the words that come out of the mouths of our enemies, whether it's in russia. whether it's in china, whether it's in iran, whether it's in other places across the globe. we shouldn't be having it coming out of the leader of the republican party's mouth. >> absolutely. >> we deserve better. i will say there's a lot of republicans out there who deserve better. >> yeah, they do. coming up on "morning joe," both sides signal some progress in the ongoing debt ceiling negotiations following yesterday's oval office meeting between president biden and congressional leaders. we'll have an update from white

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♪♪ the man accused of attacking two congressional staff members with a metal bat has been arraigned despite refusing to appear at his hearing. police say on monday the suspect damaged the office of virginia congressman jerry connolly in fairfax. he was arrested within five minutes of the attack. yesterday the judge proceeded with his hearing despite the suspect not showing up. the man faces three felonies as well as a misdemeanor hate crime for an incident that happened minutes before he entered the congressman's office. the suspect is due back in court for a preliminary hearing on july. monday's attack prompted calls to increase security for members of congress. spokesperson for house speaker

kevin mccarthy released this statement writing in part, the speaker has, quote, made clear his expectation that politics must be separated from security and empowered the house sergeant at armts to work with u.s. capitol police to protect all members of congress as they deem necessary, and obviously, mika, it was much more than property damage that we described. a couple of those staffers were attacked with a metal bat by this manment. >> yeah, a woman who says she worked for rudy giuliani during the final two years of the trump administration is alleging that the former president's personal attorney discussed selling presidential pardons and detailed plans to overturn the 2020 election. according to a complaint filed in new york state court on monday noel dunphy says after rudy giuliani hired her he sexually assaulted her and harassed her, refused to pay her wages and often made sexist,

racists and anti-semitic remarks. she stated she has recordings of numerous interactions with giuliani. she also alleges that giuliani talked about presidential pardons and claimed to have immunity and told her that he was selling pardons for $2 million, which he and president trump would split. the lawsuit did not suggest any pardons were sold. dunphy alleges giuliani provided a glimpse into plans to overturn the election if trump lost telling her that trump's team would claim there was voter fraud and that trump had actually won the election according to the lawsuit. dunphy is seeking $10 million in compensatory and punitive damages. giuliani denied the allegations through a spokesperson. mara, i want your thoughts, my takeaways here are that, you know, this is very early and these are her allegations, although she's filed them under

penalty of perjury. there's a lot of different potentials here for someone like jack smith and others investigating the president, if there is a there there to perhaps get more information as it pertains to attempts to overturn the election. >> well, speaking of cavemen, right? you know, understandably we've been extraordinarily focused on the prosecutions and potential prosecutions and the civil suits against donald trump, but despite the fact that he promised to hire only the best people, we also know that he was surrounded by a coterie of men mostly who seemed to have not been able to behave themselves. one of the most prominent of those men, of course, is rudy giuliani, the man formerly known as america's mayor. so of course as a new yorker too, you just think this is also a man who ran for president at one point and that's a disturbing thought at this juncture. but you know, there are other potential investigations that we

may see. it is early. these are just allegations. everybody deserves a day in court, of course, but i have to say after reading the 70-page complaint, you know, the allegations that ms. dunphy has over the course of two years and apparently these recordings are disturbing. there are sexual allegations that are disturbing of sexual abuse, wage theft. also the potential national security implications and the threats to our democracy, the picture that she paints is vivid and disturbing and every single one of these claims should be taken seriously and vetted in my opinion. coming up, we'll speak with a california democrat who's pushing a resolution to expel george santos from the house of representatives. congressman robert garcia is our guest straight ahead on "morning joe."

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option. >> i just finished our meeting with the president. i did think this one was a little more productive. we're a long way apart. we've got a short time frame here to try to figure out how we could come to an agreement. look, i wish we had done this back in february. >> oh, my god, joining us now white house press secretary karine jean-pierre. i wish he had done this back in february too but that's not where we're at, not even close. twhas at what's at stake here and how far apart is the white house and republicans on this? i think everyone agrees we

shouldn't be in this position where politics and disagreement over policies and different things that each side wants gets in the way of the debt ceiling battle, like why are we doing this? >> that's a very good question, mika. let me just say this and just kind of reiterate and thank you for having me on -- what the president said yesterday. the president and congressional leaders had a productive meeting. they had a direct conversation on the importance of making sure america does not default on our debt for the first time. and so that's one part of the conversation that they had. the other part of it is to make sure that there is a responsible, bipartisan budget agreement that gets to his desk, and like you stated in the beginning of your question to me, mika, yes, there are a range of issues that they need to discuss. the president directed his staff to have this conversation on the staff level and to deal with what -- how we get to -- how we

get to a bipartisan, again, reasonable agreement on the budget, and the president is looking forward to having conversations with the congressional leader on the phone later this week and meeting with them again when he comes back overseas. look, we are not a deadbeat nation. you've heard this from the president over and over again. this is congress's constitutional duty to get this done as it relates to debt limit, and we should not be in this position. we should not. this is something that has been done 78 times since 1960, and let's not forget, democrats joined republicans in a bipartisan way putting politics aside three times in the last administration, the trump administration to get this done. so this is where we are. we have a date from the treasury department on what needs to get done before that date is passing and getting done the debt limit, which congress could do. they could have done this a long time ago. >> good morning, it's good to

see you. >> good morning. >> mitch mcconnell said the same yesterday, we are not going to default, there's going to be a default but it's speaker mccarthy and the president who are key to this. one of the things on the table that republicans want out of this deal is federal work requirements for federal aid programs like medicaid and snap. in other words you'd have to show employment for a certain number of hours a week in order to get supplemental food or to get medicaid. progressives have said that is a nonstarter for them. the white house and president biden have said, well, there might be some negotiating within that. where is the question on work requirements? >> here's what i'll say about that, what republicans are proposing is essentially increasing poverty, proposing a plan that really won't save us much money at all and cutting health care costs for millions of americans. this is a proposal that they have put forth that they couldn't get unified agreement on when they had the government,

when they had majority in the house, in the senate, and also had a republican president. they couldn't even get this done. so look, the president has been very clear he's going to fight for health care. he's going to fight for programs that american families truly need just to make ends meet, but that's the proposal they're putting in front of us, willie. >> hey, karine, good morning, it's jonathan. it's no small thing for a president to cancel a portion of a trip, he's no longer making the stops in australia and papua new guinea, that's a region the administration said they really want to focus on to curb china's rising influence. what went into the decision for the president to opt to not make the second part of this trip? >> look, it's -- as you know, in the statement that i put out yesterday, the president spoke to the prime minister of australia to offer up -- let him know that he had to postpone that second part of the trip and

also extended an invite, a state visit to the prime minister to clearly come here and so that is something that both sides of our teams are going to discuss and have that conversation. he also spoke to the prime minister of papua new guinea to let him know that we were postponing. so look, the president understands how important it is when we're talking about the budget and a responsible bipartisan budget but also the debt limit, which should be done without conditions, should be done without negotiation. that's something that the president has been very clear. we have an x date that the president put forward. that's to congress, congress needs to get this done, and so the conversation that he's been having with them is saying this saying you have to deal with an issue with the debt limit that has been done 78 times since

1960, we are not a deadbeat nation. the president has held the line on that and also, we are having that second conversation of making sure that we have a budget that gets to his desk that he can sign. >> white house press secretary karine jean-pierre, thank you, as always good to see you. we appreciate you coming on this morning. >> good to see you, mika. all right, jen, i'm just wondering at this point, you know, they need to get it right here because both sides i think suffer if, you know, we go beyond the deadline. >> yeah, and i mean, here's what we have known for 30 years because, you know, the first sort of big showdown between democrats and republicans on like government shut downs, debt limits was during the clinton administration in '95, '96, and public opinion usually favors the democrats and people trust the democrats more on these issues, so that's great, you know, and karine made a good argument about why the work

requirements are not necessary. we don't want to push more people into poverty. i think the democrats can win that argument with public opinion, but at some point you have to pass a deal, and there's getting to a deal, which they seem close to being able to do, but then there's a question of what can kevin mccarthy actually pass in the house republican caucus, and you know, just him making a deal doesn't assure that he's going to be able to get it done, when he passed his default, you know, anti-default bill a few weeks ago, it only passed with one vote, and one of those votes was george santos who ostentatiously made a show of going down to the well to vote to show just how necessary his one vote was going to be. so you know, hakeem jeffries is standing on the sidelines with a discharge petition to say let's just pass the bill, just pass the debt limit with no -- with nothing attached to that, unlikely that that could happen, but if you needed to get all the

democrats aligned and five republicans that would pass a clean debt limit, you know, that's there as sort of a tough but as an option. so in addition to making this deal, the president and the democrats and mcconnell, you know, he's careful to say we're not going to default. he knows how devastating it is for republicans to own that. they still have to figure out a way to get this through the congress. coming up, oscar winning actress patricia arquette is standing by. we'll talk about severance and tonight's premier of her new show "high desert" on apple tv. our conversation with patricia is straight ahead on "morning joe." ght ahead on "morning joe. i've spent centuries evolving with the world. that's the nature of being the economy. observing investors choose assets to balance risk and reward.

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emmy award winning actor sean hayes is back on broadway taking on the role of oscar lavante. the play "good night, oscar" offers a full portrait of the

troubled musician who became famous for his edgy and comedic criticisms of show business, and we're happy to say sean hayes joins us now. sean, great to see you, so tell us a little bit about mr. lavant, someone who was such a legend in his and someone who was a legend in his time, but in a few ways, history has forgotten. >> yes, that is why i am excited about the play, because i want the introduce him to audiences who don't know him. he was extremely funny man, and a wit and writer and virtuoso pianist, and he struggled with mental illness and addictions that he spoke about with live on television, and you can imagine how unbelievable it was for live television audiences to hear about. so he owned his own mental

health issues by speaking about them in a funny way. and so it all culminated in funny way because he was a frequent guest of jack parr on "to night show" and he got a pass on game shows, and he was a frequent guest on "the tonight show" and jack parr used to sign off with good night, oscar levant, wherever you are." >> and is that because he was speaking so openly about mental health challenges, which is so common in our day and age is so much more vital and i have to admit that you, yourself, are

also so skill on the piano. >> well, come on over, and we will have a piano party. >> okay. tonight. >> well, i often say if we are not challenging ourselves as actors, what are we doing? this is a huge challenge for me, and that is why it is really, really scary, because i am nothing like him in most ways, and like him in a few other ways, and so i just enjoyed why not swing for the fences, and if it works, great, and if it didn't, great. it is a win-win for me just to try to do something that i have never done before. >> and you have been nominated for a tony, so it is safe to say it is working. so let's look behind the scenes how you prepared to embody this musical genius. >> okay. one of the other things that i need to do is this. okay. this.

♪♪ ♪♪ >> so, sean, such an emotional tortured role and grueling one i'd have to assume performing night after night, and what is the toll that it took on you? >> well, taking, because we are still running. it is a lot. from beginning to end, it is addiction and mental struggles are in my family tree, and so i have been witness to it.

i have struggled with some of it, mental issues, and we all have since the pandemic, and so it is a lot, and just going back to the story a bit. oscar struggled with his friendship with george gershwin who he revered, and there was a love/hate with him and gershwin of how oscar wanted to be as talented in the composition world as gershwin and yet, just didn't quite succeed, and so it kind of ate at him, and created all kinds of anxiety and depression, and a slew of other things. >> so, sean, of course, you are known and beloved for the characters that you played on "will and grace" and what was it like to break out of that from that part, and now playing something very different? >> yes. you know, when i was younger, i

thought that you had to do something to distance yourself from something that made you famous, and then it was not until i was older that you have to embrace that and acknowledge how much joy that show did for so many people who were affected by that, and now i just think it is the greatest gift that has ever been given to america and so i loved that period in my life, and i loved that character. i will never stop loving jack mcfarland, but for me, personally, it is important to try other things and push myself to become other people in the acting world. >> so sean, before we let you go, we do have to ask you about smartless of the podcast that you did with jason bateman and

will arnett and has become very popular. >> it is as shocking to us as it is to you, that it is so popular. and we were just not able to drive ourselves everywhere, so let's do 5 episodes and then 10 and now here we are having the time of our lives, and they are like my brothers and family and it is like hanging out with your best pals every week. it is super gratifying and rewarding on every level. and i love those guys. >> i love to download it every week and great stuff and of course, "good night, oscar" playing in the belasco theater right now. sean hayes, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> and we will be right back with more "morning joe."

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oh booking.com, ♪ i'm going to somewhere, anywhere. ♪ ♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. that's some bad luck brian. and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky...day [crash] so today is your lucky...day for a great low rate, go with the general. all right. live look at capitol hill as we launch the fourth hour of "morning joe." welcome back. it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 on the west coast. mike barnicle and john lemonier

is still with us, and launching "politics nation" is reverend al sharpton and good to have you with us, rev. we have a packed hour ahead including democrat who going to force the republicans to go on the record as it pertains to the george santos. he is bringing a resolution to the floor to expel the federally-indicted lawmaker. representative garcia is going to join us in a moment. also ahead, the look at the rise of the far right extremism in law enforcement. we will talk to a police chief from illinois who had the deal with the issue inside of his very own department. later this hour, academy award winning actress patricia arquette is our guest here to talk about her new series "high desert." first a number of developments out of florida this morning.

the florida department of education is investigating a fifth grade teacher's decision to show her class a disney movie that features a gay character. the teacher decided to show "strange world" because it related to her students science content. according to the letter, the state's education department will be at the school today and may interview students. this is absolutely nuts. the state's board of education recently approved a rule expanding state's so-called don't say gay law banning all educators from teaching about gender and sexual identity. joe, i was reading more about this teacher who the state officials are now intervening, and i believe she has handed in

her resignation, but she is just giving her kids a break. they needed a break. so she played a disney movie. i mean, this is where we are. >> with one character in there who is gay. and so, mike, she is going be fired. seriously, it is the extreme steps people are going to, to get us back to the 1950s, and is this the ostrich strategy? stick your head in the sand as maureen dowd would say, is this the ostrich strategy? >> well, joe, going back to 1950s as opposed to what is happening in florida. when i saw this story, i had to read it twice in order to half believe it. and this is clearly the direction that this legislature and this governor in the state

of florida is taking willingly, purposely with the political intent, and not having anything to do with the welfare and the education and the safety, mental safety of the students involved. we are talking about fifth-grade students here, fourth or fifth grade student, and this strap yourselves in, folks, if this is the future. >> and rev, we have seen also, teachers being nervous about the books and talking about roberto clemente and the challenges he faces as a ball player, and hank aaron and the challenges he faced racially as well. i mean, for me growing up, and again, i grew up in mississippi and i group in alabama and i grew up in georgia and i grew up in northwest florida, and the conservative bastions, and we understood this in 1971 when hank aaron was playing baseball in 1972, '73, and we understood

it and you would read "sports illustrated" and understand that hank aaron faced death threats and roberto clemente, and yes, yes, institutional racism that was still in place when he went south, and still places in the north and issues like this, and my gosh, again, we are not even going back to the 1950s here. this is trying to create a past, a sanitized hoe mon -- sameness in the past because there is a disney character in a movie that you don't like.

>> when you raise one of the real effects of this is that if i'm a student in florida and i look at the data that black wealth is 10% of the white wealth and blacks are almost doubly unemployed to the whites until the last couple unemployment day that came out that biden has narrowed that, i would think that without knowing the history that blacks are just incompetent and less than able. if i understood the history, i would say well, this is a pattern of trying to overcome institutional racism, so it has a lot of implications that we are not looking at the danger of not telling real history. secondly on the thing about the teacher and gays, you know, when i ran in 2004 for president, we had debates, and i would love to see at a presidential debate if ron desantis does in fact run, they would ask him if he has gays that work in state

government or do you have a policy that gays cannot be working in state government, so he can be dragged into government. and tell us if you have a policy that you cannot have gays working in state institutions that are gay. >> and we are talking about elementary school students and a elementary schoolteacher when chief justice earl warren announced the brown v. education step which is a huge step of integration of the culture and nevermind the schools, and this is what we are talking about all of these years later, and this is what we are talking about? this is a down feel of the word progress. >> and this drag queen stuff, and the banning of the drag

queen shows, i don't understand it. i don't know where it came from, and they are acting like george soros got together with ilhan omar and aoc and bernie sanders. >> and rupaul. >> and said, we are going to invent something that is called a drag queen show, and it is going to corrupt the youth of america. okay. this has never happened before. wait a second. like, it -- my brother and sister and all of their friends went to see the "rocky horror picture show" and i mean, this is the transvestites, and the kinks and i mean, i am not dumb, but -- lola -- i don't

understand why she looks leek a woman but walks like a man -- and david bowie and androgenous and people don't have to love all of that, but it has been around for a long time. and this wokism, and what is that? oh, this is new, this is new, and they are trying to destroy us. go read the introduction of alan bloom's the "closing of the american mind" and he is describing in 1986 exactly what people are talking about in 2023. read harold bloom's "the western canon" and he is talking about canceling great writers, and he says "i suppose they will come for shakespeare last and try to

cancel him" and he didn't say cancel, but they will come for shakespeare last, and what a battle that'll be. so this could be in a blog or substack newspaper today, and it is always happening on college campuses. i went to southern state schools and i knew to keep my head back, and oh, it is pretty good, because i got to figure out how to sort of move through the waters. vii -- i have talked to people who voted for donald trump, and talk to your kids who are left of center, and it is good that you learn how to navigate kids, and people are acting like this is all new, and no, i remember this in the university of alabama, and i remember saying to my kids ronald reagan, and 49

states, what do you think about that? he said, "well, i guess america is strong enough to survive eight years of ronald reagan." same as it ever was. same as it ever was, right. so why all of the whining? they are such snowflakes. they are such triggered snowflakes. they are wimps. we have all been through this before, and don't act like this is all new and that george soros and the trilateral commission is coming after our children. sorry, mika, i know that your dad started trilateral commission, but go ahead. >> that is too close to home. and this is part of the centerpiece of governor desantis' administration is that is where wokism goes to die. and part of the ambiguity, and

if it starts where a lot of the parents would be on board with it, and maybe you should not teach the sex education to kindergartners. >> i get that. >> but extended -- and who doing that to start with, and now it is extended to the high schoolers and now fifth grader cannot watch a disney movie because of a gay character. >> and now, when do they all go to watch us watch that film? eighth? >> seventh? >> eighth grade for me. >> my kids are learning about it, and it is like the drug trade, so you might as well regulate it, and tell them so they are not learning in the bathroom by learning from other friends. >> on the internet. >> k through third, who wants their kids to learn about sex education. and the media says, this is horrible, they are not teaching 5-year-olds about transgendered,

and like, no parents wanted that, but the media played right into it, and this is the end of the freedom in america, and now they have extended it through 12th grade. well, okay, where exactly do you want them to learn about sex education. >> it is not like these kids do not have gays in the families or the neighborhoods. >> everybody does. >> i mean n the church. i did not mean them at some drag place, because i have never been to one, and i met them in the church. >> by the way, you want to meet some gay people -- >> don't say it. be careful. >> do to the republican caucus meeting in the united states senate. >> oh, joe! >> i tried not the -- >> and the staffers, and the -- no, no, i am just saying, they are throughout the republican party in south carolina. everywhere i go, it is out there, and people are smirking, but i am saying is. i am not outing anybody. i am just saying that there are gay people all around, so please

don't act like, don't act like, oh, my god, there are gay people in the movie, and so we have to fire the teachers now. it is great question, and i am not saying it is a great question, but does not ron desantis not have gay people working on the staff, and do republican elected officials have gay people working on the staff? i know they do. i know they do, and especially the republican party. i don't know why. republicans sit around dinner say, why so many gay men are attracted working for the republican party? they just are. it has been that way for 20, 25 years and again, mika, i'm not judging anybody, but it is really weird that these are the people who are playing kerry nation right now like about a disney movie with one gay

character. >> i will take what you are saying a step further in that some are -- >> well, i don't know if you can take that a step further, sweetie. >> well, i just -- there is the whole protesting too much. there are some people who are closeted who actually act more negative and more cruel toward gay people when they don't face their own reality. >> and you know what else they do -- >> and there is nothing wrong with it, because it is part of american society and part of life in the world. some people are gay. get over it. >> we are about to go down the colorado river rafting with rocks around. so the next thing, i would suggest first of all that people look for certain public officials who overcompensate, and that is always a good first

sign. overcompensation is one. >> yep. >> and two -- >> okay. >> i just hope that dave chappelle updates all the comedy routines in the coming years. >> leave it right there. >> i will leave it right there. >> we have more news out of florida. >> well, exciting. that is all excitingsh and i think that we dodged rocks. >> and we are talking about florida here, and we will talk about a significant race that was won last night and a long stretch of wins for republicans in florida until yesterday. a big upset in a key mayoral race despite entering the election day as a underdog, democrat donna deegan won to become jacksonville's first woman mayor. she defeated a republican 52-48% to the first republican term

limited against a republican who was in a republican-leaning city endorsed by ron desantis, and won in a jacksonville and won in his re-election just last year. and so we asked her what gave her the edge in the election? >> i'm a fifth-generation jacksonville native. i was a news anchor here, and when i was diagnosed with breast cancer, i started a foundation and i started a race here which brings in people from all over the city, and so i started it a year and a half ago when we started a grassroots campaign, and we started talking to people eyeball to eyeball and i thought that we had relationships to bring it in, and i am grateful that jacksonville agreed.

>> all right. one week after congressman george santos was indicted on 13 charges, the democrats in the house have introduced a resolution to expel him from congress. the resolution will need to be brought up by the republican-controlled house and needs a 2/3 majority to pass. santos has been charged with 13 counts including money fraud, money laundering and theft of public funds. he has plead not guilty of all charges and plans to run for re-election. the congressman who plans to expel george santos is congress garcia of california. thank you for being on the show this morning. tell us why you think that george santos should be expelled from congress. >> look, george santos is a liar and fraud, and even before the 13 counts that are serious, we introduced a resolution 13 months ago and he has admitted to fraud and lying and

completely lied to his constituents lie after lie after lie, and it is important that the most important thing is that the democrats are going forward and the republicans go on record and they have to vote to support the american public or support george santos. >> so congressman, good morning. walk us through what happens next. it is not a step that occurs very often in the house of representative s, and there are republicans in his own state who say he should go, but how many in the party in total will join you? >> we think that the vote is going to likely happen today, a we did a resolution that should force a vote in the next four days and so we think it is going to happen today. we have had numerous republicans including entire new york freshmen delegation to ask for his resignation and expulsion, and we hope that his colleagues in new york are going to do the

right thing and not allow it to go to house ethics committee. there is a motion to go to ethics committee already, and the republicans need to do the right thing and expel george santos. what he has done is very, very serious. we are here to support truth, accountability and justice, and kevin mccarthy unfortunately, he has empowered the extreme fringe in his party like george santos the take critical votes and take classified briefings, and he has no business in congress. i took an oath in this country and i'm an immigrant in this country, and george santos is the opposite of what we are trying to do which is the right thing. >> congressman, how are we doing in the southern border. does the biden administration understand the humanitarian crisis there, and we are going to a more orderly approach there where we are allowing the illegal immigration coming into

the united states, and we need order at the border and worry about the humanitarian crisis there, and are things improving? >> i think so. this is the reality. i emigrated here as a young kid. people love immigrant, and we are the most patriotic people, and we need a guest worker program, and safety. and most immigrants will tell you that we want a safe and secure border. folks coming into the country and most of whom are here seeking help and asylum seekers are here, because they are suffering in their country. this country is a kind and caring place, and we should have absolutely a secure border, and we should be a place to wellcome people and have a process to citizenship. you have people serving in the military and students who have been here their entire lives without access to citizenship. it is shameful. the president is trying to get everything under control. i think that opening up the different centers around south

america and mexico, that is the right approach for asylum seekers. we not seeing the chaos that republicans wanted to see on the border. i support the biden administration's plan for order, and we have to get something done around comprehensive immigration reform. >> thank you, congressman garcia. and it seems that we are coming to a consensus here even if there is a battle between the politician, and they want a safe and secure border, and they want a law enforced at the border, a humanitarian approach to immigration, and understanding that we need immigrants in this country whether it is high-tech or lower skilled immigrants, and it takes all kind of immigrants as ronald reagan to keep this country vibrant and keep it young and keep it moving forward. >> i think that the challenge is

to find the mid-ground to deal with the safety of the border and the people who feel insecure about it. a lot of it hyped by governor abbott and others and the humanitarian effort that the country stands for. this is a struggle that we will have to put our big boy's pants on and try to deal with it. i have been saying for the last couple of days that the battle between the big city mayor, and like my mayor adams talking to president biden. this is not something that we need to be shouting at each other, but we need to be figuring this out, and aim trying to help accommodate that. we can't send people back into exploitation, oppression without a regard for we can't at the same time override the border. so where is the balance. so those elected have to put on the best hat and figure this out. >> and i agree.

and meeka, also, also, figuring this out, and sending a loud, and clear message, and unambiguous message to those who want to migrate to the united states, you have to do it in a safe, legal, ordered way. we can't have you risking your life of the families and the children crossing the deserts and having people exploit you, and take your life savings only to come to the border to find out that you can't come in, because we don't have the wherewithal, and we don't have the judges, and we don't have the facilities to do this in a humanitarian way right now. there has been a massive influx over the past four or five years since donald trump became president, and of course, we are looking back to when barack obama was president, and the last year, and the lowest number of illegal border crossings in 50 years. things have been getting a lot worse since then, and we have to figure out how to do it right.

it is in both the democrats and the republicans' best interests, and there a compromise there, and it should not be that difficult to get to the deal. >> no question. coming up on "morning joe" the fight of extremism in law enforcement. our next guest is a police chief from illinois who dealt with that very issue in his own department. that story and the impact on the local community straight ahead on "morning joe." when the martins booked their vrbo vacation home, they really weren't looking for much: a patch of grass for bruno, a pool for first-timers, don't worry, i've got you. and time with each other. and when they needed support, someone was right there. i got you. because what's unique about a vrbo is you can reach a real person in about a minute. ♪

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half past the hour. 2 1/2 years after the january 6th insurrection, we continue to learn more about the unprecedented attack and the circumstances that led to it. that includes lifting curtain on the connection of extremism and police officers around the

country. washington post reports that the springfield police department faced an internal reckon when it learned that one of their own was spouting white supremist beliefs online. after the internet posts came to light, the officer was placed on unpaid leave and later resigned is. meanwhile, the springfield police chief ken scarfield had to build trust between the community and his department. the chief joins us now. thank you very much for being on this morning, and tell us a little bit how it came to light that you had an officer spouting these extreme beliefs online in your department. >> yeah, well, first let me say that thank you for having me, mika, as part of the show, and having this pleasure to share my experience so others can learn from it. i appreciate the opportunity. >> thank you. >> it was april 1st of 2022, and

just shy of six weeks into my chiefship, if you will, of the springfield police department, although i have been a part of the agency for 22-plus years, i was only chief for six weeks when i received a call from my deputy chief of a new story coming over the internet of what is going to be a major incident within our agency. >> so, chief, tell us more then, because this is an 18-year officer, veteran of the police force there and someone respected on the police force and respected in the community, and what did you learn on the phone call, and what is the first reaction, and what did you know that you had to do? >> what i learned was that the gentleman who worked for the agency who i thought that i knew and also the gentleman part of the united states military and national guard for 20 years, individual who in his branch of the service thought they knew is not who i was dealing with. what was uncovered is 50,000

posts over the years of hate speech towards the jewish community, the african-american community and the lgbtq community, and so, yes, it was extremely disturbing to me as the new police chief, and i knew that i had to do the right thing and the right thing is that simply this gentleman would not be in a capacity to serve and protect the citizens of springfield. >> chief, do you recommend therefore based on your own experience that there is some way that it is mandated from a federal position that all of the municipalities, cities, et cetera, have to have a real level of scrutinizing who is on the force, because if you have people in your case who are openly and adamantly anti-semitic and anti-black, how can you put them out there to serve the public when they have these very bigoted and biased

views? shouldn't we have that at the federal level where it is not optional per county, per city, per state? >> well, thanks for the question, reverend. it is important to understand, and it is a cliche, but i will use it. every good cop hates a bad cop. there were 650,000 law enforcement officers in the country who faithfully serve and protect their communities on a daily basis and important to recognize that. what transpired here in the state of illinois as part of the safety act is to have a database of individuals who should not be police officers for various reasons such as this or previous arrest or whatever the case may be, but to your point, if there is one thing they would like to see happen, and whether it is the state of illinois or nationwide is that individuals like this cannot bounce from department to department.

this individual has no business of ever stepping foot into the law enforcement realm again. it is an embarrassment of the chief of police that there is someone ike this who wore this uniform at one time. >> so, chief, this patrol officer had 18 years on the job. so i have a two-part question for you. one, were there any complaints if any against him filed during those 18 years, and two, the police union, because sometimes they can be obstinate in their support of a police officer, and how did you handle the police unions. >> yes. let me start with the first part. as part of the thorough and robust review process of former officer we made a review of

every police interaction is that he was professional and that was part of the persona not to let anyone in his personal life. and so, the state attorney's office reviewed every arrest report that he ever wrote, and no instances to where his ulterior motives ever shown through while he wore the uniform. we have unions here, and it sill is important to establish relationships with the union representatives. i strive to do that and i have a great working relationship, and when i brought them in and told them exactly what was transpiring and they were 100% on board that this individual had no business wearing this uniform. >> chief of police in springfield, illinois, ken

scarlette, thank you for coming on. >> if i can use this for a learning opportunity for other departments throughout the country, i am committed for that. thank you. and coming up, emmy-award winning actress patricia arquette is just ahead. "morning joe" coming right back. . me, i knew. maybe you should host a commercial then. sure, okay. subway series just keeps getting better.

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we supported you while mommy was here, but it is not happening anymore. >> i told you, i'm a private investigator now. >> you are just going to have to hustle. >> i need a hustle. >> no, to hustle. >> you are in phoenix, baby. >> i know. >> what are you supposed to be? >> a real p.i. >> i'm not hiring. >> i'm a natural detective. you need me. i need this job. >> be here monday morning at 9:00 a.m. >> i don't get up before 11:00. >> that is a look at the new series high desert with emmy award winning patricia arquette. she goes to becoming a private

investigator on apple tv. we are happy to have her here in studio, and it is so great to see you, patricia. it is so awesome to see you, and we know that you will be revealing everything on season two of "severance." but we will start with this, which is a complete 180 of the character. so who is peggy? >> she is a sober-ish person. she is constantly slipping and struggling with her sobriety, and she is always hustling. she has her own code of morals and ethics. she is trying to hustle to make some money basically. so she has multiple jobs. she is conning her way into being a private eye, but she works at pioneer town. her ex-husband is matt dillon

and her mother is bernadette peters. >> what an incredible cast. come on. >> it is so good. it is a counter culture comedy, and very different than anything that we have on, and a little homage to the cohen brothers and sort of more wildness. >> a little "raising arizona" in there. >> exactly. >> so what attracted you to it? how did you get involved or hooked up with it? >> well, what attracted me to it was the writing. the three women who write this show are just, they are just so, the humor is so different and the voice is so funny and off kilter way of looking at the world that is something i appreciate and very funny. >> so let's take a look at the "high desert" and peggy has a

heart-to-heart with one of her concerned siblings. >> peggy, what are your plans? >> what do you mean? >> have you thought about what you are going to do nextt? >> regarding what? >> regarding what -- i mean, look, it is fine that we supported you while mommy was here, because you were taking care of her, but it ain't happening anymore. >> peggy, you need a job. >> i have a job. look around you. and don't, don't disrespect me because we pool the tips. >> well, you are a fictional barmaid. >> well, it is acting, my job. >> what if you act as a court stenographer or something. >> what? i have a record, and this is kind of the best i can do right now. >> you know, the script as you just mentioned, and the cast as we just mentioned, and the originality of the concept of this program, how has a place

like apple tv and others, netflix and apple tv much more so lately than any other element involved, how has it changed the life of working actors like you? >> yeah, that is a great question. it has a lot. this show would never be on network tv, because it is too risque. jay roach is our director. he did "meet the fockers" and many other comedies and has the razor's edge humor and it could not happen on network tv, and so on apple, they take chances and it has opened up the field i think. >> patricia, when you are doing a comedy like this, and you read the script and you talked about the writing, obviously, it is entertaining, but you have so many overlapping kind of things that people can learn, like the

difference in cultures between where you started as the character and where you end up in arizona where you are a recovering addict, and all kinds of issues come into play. do you think about that as you are doing this, or you are doing with it. a natural flow, because it is natural life that we intersect in different places? >> she is like a cyclone and constantly moving and picking up the broken birds along the way, because she knows that she has a strength, but she is this addict, and part of the chaos around her is avoiding your own pain. you think that you are strong enough, and you are not that strong, because that drug is always kind of calling to you. she loses her mother, and she does not really know how to cope with that at all, so it is a balancing act of all of the different thing, but, the writer nancy had lost her sister marjorie, and this is based on marjorie who said at one point,

i am going to be a private detective and struggling with, and you would be a great private detective oddly enough. i had known a lot of drug addicts and many who had passed away in my youth, but they were beautiful people, and i wanted to celebrate that part of them. they were lost, and they did not have the mechanisms and they could not cope with the world, but they had beautiful hearts. in america, we don't look at it as an illness, but we look at it as a character flaw. >> you talked about how this would not be on network tv, and one of the reasons is how addiction is confronted, how it is handled. i have lost a friend and like you said, you always think that when you are growing up, it is a black and white thing, right. jimi hendrix, janjanis joplin,

is 3:00 in the morning and black and white, and drawing a terrible comparison of a terrible battle that someone fighting addiction that they have to go through everyday. >> and you really do see the siblings with the loving an addict, and you do get sick of the congame, and so you see all of the different elements of the elements all at once within a comedy framework. >> mika has the next question. >> it is so great to have you on the show, and i love how empathic your character is. i am curious, and we all remember your speech for equal pay at the oscars years ago and we remember you speaking at the u.n. and the documentary and

taking on the issue, and we curious where you are when it comes to equal pay today and how the activism has impacted your career either positively or negatively? >> well, thanks. we saw during the pandemic that a vast majority of the jobs that were lost was females. at one point, it was 100% of all of the job losses were women who were staying home with the kids and taking care of the family, so there is still a great imbalance of the levels pre-pandemic, but i never was really in that speech necessarily talking about the actresses being paid less, and we do, but 99.9% of all professions, women are paid less. so i was talking about across the board women were paid less, and how that leads to women

having less in retirement, and being likely to live in poverty in the elder years and take years longer to pay off the homes or their children's education, and higher education or their own higher education. so we still have a long, long way to go. >> and sometimes you -- >> yes, we do. >> and you don't usually hear this story, and sometime something will slip out, and in the second season of "crown" we found that claire foye, the queen, and she made less than the other actor, and you are hearing, wait, she is paid less and they are spending hundreds of millions of dollars and this woman, they are nickel and diming her, and it is crazy. >> i say across the board and myself as well, there is a lot of unconscious bias that we all

have from growing up. so i don't see somebody in a room somewhere that i could point the finger at, and say, this is the person doing this. i have had to stand my own ground myself who i know who are allies who still didn't see it that way orcxdçór÷ñifáñre1i]xdqr

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but jokic and the nuggets are really good. game two in denver tomorrow night, and tonight the boston celtic in the eastern conference finals host the miami heat in game one there. how are you feeling? >> the heat always play the celtics tough. they're really tough. they're smart. look, i'll pick the celts, of course, but i think it's going to be a long series, six or seven games. i think the lakers nuggets series is going to go long too. neither of those teams has lost at home at all this post season. >> wow, i tell you what, mike.

again, i follow college basketball a lot, not the nba so much, but even i will be watching, if we can get one of those lakers, celtics finals. that would be amazing. especially with lebron, man. that'd be crazy. >> i think the nba officials, the commissioner on down, that's what they're hoping for. there will be a huge tv ratings bonanza. i disagree with jonathan, i don't disagree with him on his expertise of the nba, it's far superior to mine. i think the celtics are going to take the heat in five or six games max. they're just primed. they got nearly humiliated just getting past the last series, and i think they learned a lot about themselves. >> rev, what do you got going today? what do you got going this week? where are you preaching this week? rev doesn't want to talk about the nba. he says i'm the uniter.

unfortunately friday i have to do another eulogy. i'm doing the eulogy for jordan neely, the young man that was killed by the chokehold on the new york city subway, and i talked with his family last night, and it's a very sad time for them. >> how are they holding up? >> it's very sad to them. luckily they have lawyers that are standing there with them, and they are really wanting to see something done about people that were in jordan's shape in terms of being one that had mental ill problems, but at the same time, they want to see justice. the one that choked him is now indicted. they're raising questions about the other people that held him down. so it's a matter of dealing with justice but friday is the funeral, it's for the family to encourage and strengthen them. ironically, the funeral's at reverend johnny green's baptist church who eulogized jordan's mother, part of what triggered a

lot of jordan's mental ill battles was his mother was chopped up and killed, and he never recovered. and the last place that he went to see his mother was at this church. we're having the funeral on friday. >> let the family know that we're thinking about them and certainly in our family's prayers, and it is a reminder, a really stark reminder that there are people out there that are lost, that are wandering, that somehow cycle in and out of the system. we just have to do a better job taking care of people like jordan neely who slipped through the cracks. i mean, we -- you know, we hear republicans talking about mental health, mental health, let's fund it. >> i think jordan neely gives an opportunity to look at that, but the pain that family has to go through and the sacrifice, you

try to give meaning to it, and the meaning that i'm going to try and give is that jordan can be a symbol of what was wrong with the city as well as the chokehold. >> you always do bring meaning to these moments and comfort the families, and it means so much. so thank you, rev. mika, thank you for your patience with me specifically today. isn't she -- >> willie, can you please tell joe what time the show starts? i'm closing it now. we're over 10:00 a.m. it's ana cabrera's time. >> 7:20 eastern i'll be here. >> 6:00 a.m. >> ana picks up the coverage right now. thank you, mika for that nice handoff. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. i want to take you right to the white house where president biden is awarding the medal of valor for a