harry wants to put them out of business, not make them more profitable. by the very nature of who he is and what he does and how he makes his own money from selling his story in books and netflix, you can see this is a relationship -- a symbiotic relationship. >> thank you so much for being with us. appreciate it. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. i thank you for the privilege of your time. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," no deal but new signs of hope after tuesday's meeting at the white house with congressional leaders, the speaker, that they can avoid default. >> i'm confident that we will get the agreement on the budget, that america will not default. leaders have agreed we will not default. every leader has said that. >> different opinions can get together, come to an agreement where both sides feel they win.

let's have a negotiation. let's walk out where the american people win. this hour, how did a stranger get past secret service and on the national security advisor's home at 3:00 in the morning? the battle over abortion. north carolina republicans override democratic governor roy cooper's veto of a bill banning most abortions after 12 weeks. a three-judge panel on the fifth circuit court of appeal will hear the arguments against the texas ruling all but banning the abortion pill, a case that will inevitably go back to the supreme court. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in new york. president biden heading to hiroshima, japan, this hour, for meetings with g7 allies. cancelling stops in australia and new guinea to return to washington for what he hopes will be a final agreement to

raise the debt ceiling. a meeting between the president, speaker mccarthy and other congressional leaders ended tuesday with an agreement to streamline the talks, with the white house and the speaker both choosing top aides with a lot of experience working on capitol hill, trusted by both sides, to try to unlock the stalemate. joining me now, kristin welker in japan, nbc senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake, and former obama white house press secretary robert gibbs. kristin welker in hiroshima, president biden is heading your way, putting his trust into top aides as he shifts focus to international issues for the coming days. it's all related and overshadowed by, of course, what's happening here. >> reporter: andrea, you are absolutely right about that. it is good to be with you here from hiroshima, as president biden is about to start his trip

here. look, he decided to speak clearly, because he wanted to calm concerns about a potential default. we heard a couple of significant things. one, he said after the meeting yesterday for first time everyone agreed there would not be a default. we also heard a really sharp shift in tone. think about last week in the wake of that meeting when he and house speaker kevin mccarthy had some sharp words for each other. we didn't see any of that today. in fact, the president said that the meeting was constructive. one of the key sticking points is about work requirements. would they negotiate over work requirements as a part of the budget negotiations? monica alba asked him about that. take a listen to what he had to say. >> i'm not going to accept any work requirements that's going to impact on medical health needs of people. i voted years ago for the work requirements that exist. it's possible there could be a

few other but not anything of any consequence. >> reporter: andrea, what's significant about that -- those are work requirements for social safety programs. he left the door open just a crack for the possibility of negotiating over that issue, which republicans are really pushing for. we will stay tuned to see what, if any, progress remains there. in terms of his trip here, you are right. everything from the global economy to ukraine, trying electric counter china will be at the forefront. we are herein hiroshima where the nuclear bomb was dropped, so nuclear disarmament is center stage here. concerns about the impact any default could have on the global economy also. >> thanks to you. stay with us. garrett, tell us about a congressman who will be

representing the speaker in this negotiating team and the strategy going forward for speaker mccarthy with such a narrow margin in his caucus. >> reporter: most important thing that congressman graves has going for him in these negotiations is that he has the speaker's complete trust. the two are very close. if you are going to have a negotiation like this without the principals in the room, you need the person doing the work for you to be someone who can reliably speak for you. graves can do that. he can speak for the conference. he has been meeting with what the republicans refer to as the five families. all the elements of the republican conference along the way on this particular bill. he knows where all the different groups kind of have their lines in the sand. he is a bit of a washington lifer. he was a staffer on the house side and the senate side. he is steeped in these issues, particularly on energy side, which is going to matter if you think permitting reform is part of this deal that ultimately comes together. as for keeping all republicans in line, i can tell you,

mccarthy is feeling good about this. he managed to pass this first bill, opening offer, still. but keeping all the republicans voting in favor of that measure. i've been asking other senior republicans, trying to get of how they feel about the coalition that they are going to have to put together to pass a bipartisan bill. it's going to lose a significant chunk of people on the right. it's going to lose a significant chunk of people on the left, it sounds like. nobody is going to be quite happy with what comes out of this negotiation. mccarthy told his conference, i can get this passed, i can get in the room with the president and get a serious negotiation going. on those points, he has been proven correct. he starts with pretty wide latitude within the republican conference to do these negotiations. >> he has surprised the white house by his ability to get a bill passed with such narrow margins and to hold the caucus together after the way he was elected speaker with 15 roll call votes. robert gibbs, pick it up there. it seems like there's positive

movement. it could be a glimmer of hope. they pressed him, mccarthy pressed the president to cancel the australia part of the trip. that was key to confirm this coalition of four countries against china in the south pacific. he will have opportunities at the g7 with other eastern european allies to also challenge china. >> yeah. my hunch is -- you heard in the reporting that they have made enough progress and they feel somewhat optimistic enough, having stared into the abyss of this, that they understand they are on a path to making progress. that allows the president to do what every president has to do, which is multiple big things at the same time. as you mentioned, gotta go to the g7, have to talk to allies about what's happening in ukraine.

how we are positioning ourselves vis-a-vis china. it does feel like we have entered into a period in which the trusted aides are in the room to get the principals to a point where they can ultimately agree. the challenge, obviously, is we are 15 or so days away from the end of this. it's going to take a good amount of time to get this through the house and the senate. as garrett said, you are going to have interesting vote dynamics, probably on both sides about who is going to be for this and who is going to be against it. cobbling this together is going to be a very interesting set of coalitions. >> kristin welker, i know you will be there all week. but he will come back and do his news conference in the states, right? the president's focus is coming back from this summit, hoping he is armed with supportive allies.

>> reporter: actually, andrea, our under thing is that the press conference will happen before he departs. he will have a press conference here and then -- yes. and then depart back to the u.s. the timing is significant. he wants to be back home sunday night so he can be there first thing monday. the optics, incredibly important. from his perspective, starting the workweek, focused on trying to bring this deal to closure. >> thanks for correcting me. he will be armed with messages from the allies, the europeans, of the importance to the global economy of getting this debt ceiling raised. thanks to all of you. coming up, i will talk to republican congressman bob good from the house freedom caucus for more on the debt standoff. later, sheldon whitehouse on the debt and growing pressure for ethics reform at the supreme court. first, a major security

breach sending shockwaves about the safety of our nation's biggest secrets. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds. stay with us. you are watching msnbc. tching mc e the other day... and forgot where she was. [buzz] you can always spot a first timer. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. first, there's an idea and you do something about it for the first time with godaddy. then before you know it, (it is a life changer...) you make your first sale. small business first. never stopped coming. (we did it!) and you have a partner that always puts you first way. (no way!) start today at godaddy.com. the subway series is taking your favorites to the next level. hold on, chuck! you can't beat the italian bmt. uh you can with double cheese and mvp vinaigrette.

double cheese?!? yes and yes! man, you crazy. try the refreshed favorites at subway today. a stunning security breach has embarrassed the secret service, after an intruder got past their security and entered the home of president biden's national security advisor, jake sullivan, at 3:00 in the morning. sullivan confronted the intruder in the middle of the night, according to "the washington post," and told him to leave. afterwards, sullivan went outside and told the secret service agents who were still not aware that it happened. this comes just days after congressman jerry connolly's staffers were assaulted in his office by a man with a metal baseball bat. that man now facing a federal charge. joining me now is john bolton, the former national security advisor. ambassador, thank you for being

with us. there was an attempted assassination of you in the past by iranian hitmen. you had security for a while. what's your reaction to this? it's a major breach at jake sullivan's home. apparently, according to "the washington post," the door was not locked. how troubling is this? fortunately, this was a confused person, not violent. this is a man who has all the secrets, same as the president. you know. you had that job. >> right. i have to say, i have never encountered any circumstance like that myself, both in the time when i served as national security advisor, when i had 24/7 secret service protection at my residence and then wherever i was, nor in the time since then when president biden reinstituted it, because of the iranian threat that later led to criminal charges by the department of justice, the same

sort of arrangement. i don't know of anybody who has been protected by the secret service where this has developed. they will conduct their investigation to find out exactly what happened. we will have to wait for that. it is a reminder that threats that are out there -- this turned out to be benign. jake sullivan showed courage and determination to confront the fella and tell him to get out of his house. it could have been a lot worse. it's a reminder that we have to be vigilant against these threats. >> the secret service -- they are an admirable group. i have worked around them for decades, since 1977. i know this in many administrations, many white houses. they guard foreign visitors, handle the u.n., major anniversary with 150 heads of state here in new york city. this kind of lapse, going in and

coming out of the house, they had no idea he had been in and out. how was the door unlocked to the national security advisor's house? >> i think it's just a reminder, even if you have secret service protection, lock your doors. there's no doubt about that. i don't want to get into the technicalities of how people are protected when they have security at their residences. there are a number of things, i think, the secret service authorities have to look into to see what happened. i have no doubt that they understand this is a very serious matter. i really want to underline from my own experience not only my -- the days that i have been and still am being protected, but my experience with others, this is stunning in how unusual it is. >> exactly right. i have never heard of anything like this in all the time i've been in washington.

what do you think, as you say, fortunately, it apparently was benign. what do you think is driving what happened in congressman connolly's office in virginia? it goes back to gaby gifford, the attack against her. she's still recovering, working and in physical therapy after that horrible injury. it does seem like there are more and more attacks and threats, certainly. the threats are up 400% against members of congress. >> i think there's a mental illness problem in the country. i think for decades, we have heard from experts on the subject that you don't want to confine people with mental illness. they need to be mainstreamed into society. i can't comment on it. it seems to me when people observe erratic behavior, there ought to be some system for the general -- for the protection of the general public to restrain some of these people.

i think it is an element in gun violence and in some of the other aspects. where i had protection earlier as u.n. ambassador in the bush administration, the main thing they were worried about was what they called edps. emotionally disturbed persons. because we are reluctant to acknowledge some people have mental illness. that's just a fact. that we don't want to admit it, we don't want to take steps to deal with it, it puts perfectly innocent people in jeopardy. we have to have a more serious conversation about that for the protection of the innocent. >> very interesting point. ambassador, thank you very much for joining us today. always good to see you. >> glad to be with you. breaking news from here in new york. a spokesperson for prince harry and his wife meghan, the duchess of sussex, says the couple was involved in what they called a near catastrophic car chase with paparazzi here in new york last night.

obviously, that's reminiscent of the horror of princess diana's death. her mother was with the couple. the pursued lasted more than two hours after the couple left a charity event. the spokesperson's description does differ from what two senior law enforcement officials tell nbc. law enforcement saying, the incident was a bit of a chaotic scene. they say the couple drove to a police station where officers helped them get off the block and to their residence without being followed. joining us now is nbc correspondent ron allen and daisy mcandrew from london. ron, bring us up to speed. >> reporter: we are trying to sort out exactly what happened. as you pointed out, there are differing versions of the intensity of the situation. what we know is that harry and meghan were here. she was accepting an award. there were paparazzi outside the theater who wanted pictures and wanted to know where they are staying. they were trying to get to a

residence in the upper east side, about a mile or two from here. it's 10:00 at night. there's a lot of people around. there's traffic. apparently, there's a pursuit as they are leaving. we understand that there was an nypd police car that was leading the car that the sussexs were in. there may have been other security. we don't know the extent of that. that's the beginning of it. as you said, the spokesperson for harry and meghan described it as a relentless pursuit, resulting in multiple near collisions, involving other drivers on the road, pedestrians and two nypd officers. we are trying to verify a lot of those facts if we can. in the meantime, the city's mayor has spoken out. here is what he had to say. >> i think all of us -- i don't think there's many of us who don't recall how his mom died.

it would be horrific to lose an innocent bystander during a chase like this and something to have happened to them as well. i think we have to be extremely responsible. i thought that was a bit reckless and irresponsible. >> reporter: just for recollection sake, it was 1997 when diana and her partner were in a restaurant in paris. a chase with paparazzi. an inquest found the driver was drunk at the time. she died in a horrible crash. this is what harry said is his worst nightmare with he and his wife and paparazzi. back to you. >> obviously, he was just a young boy at the time. that horror stays with him. daisy, this comes a day after prince harry was told he couldn't hire police to protect him and his family, is that correct? >> that's right. a lot of the press over here,

media like myself, have been talking about his claim that he should get a metropolitan police security when he is in the uk. he had that taken away from him when he was no longer a working member of the royal family. he argues that he should be able to use the metropolitan police and, if necessary, pay them to protect him, because he wants access to the intelligence that they have. we know they confirmed a few months ago that they had, indeed, had credible threats against the lives of harry and meghan. it's completely understandable why harry's security is something of an obsession for him, because of his mother and because of the threats that he and meghan have received. now this on top of that. >> daisy mcandrew, thank you so much for joining us, and ron allen, as well. we go back to the big story that we are covering in washington.

house speaker kevin mccarthy trying to find a debt ceiling compromise with the white house while holding his caucus together. joining me now is virginia congressman bob good, a member of the house budget committee, and the house republican freedom caucus. thank you very much for being with us. >> glad to be with you. thanks for having me. >> it's good to have your voice here. i'm wondering whether there's any concern within the freedom caucus about these hopeful signs of a compromise? are you worried there could be a compromise that is acceptable to the white house but not acceptable to your members? >> i'm thankful for speaker mccarthy's leadership and how we have come together and did what many felt we would not do, which is negotiate over the last 90 days a reasonable, responsible increase in the debt ceiling. many of us on the republican side have never voted for a debt ceiling increase and didn't want to do that. the american people don't want an increase without responsible cuts in spending and reforms to put us on a path to fiscal responsibility. i'm glad speaker mccarthy has led us. the house is united in calling

upon the senate to pass the limit, save, grow act so the president avoids any consequences for his failure to act. >> what if he were to agree to something that you don't think went far enough? do you think that could lead to a push to replace him as speaker? >> nobody is talking about that. we support our speaker. we want him to be successful. the country needs for him to be successful. we are united in the plan we put forward. it's responsible. it has modest reductions in spending and significant reforms to put us on a path to where we don't have an eventual default. one thing that's certain, we would have a default, if we continue down the path we are, we wouldn't be able to service our debt, sell our debt. we would have downgrading in our limit. the only way we would have a default would be if we were to continue on the current track or if secretary yellen were not to prioritize payments

appropriately without the debt ceiling being raised. >> the debt -- the savings would be in the next budget. they don't affect the money that's been spent, which would be covered by raising the debt ceiling to cover past debts. the non-partisan cbo is estimating that the new work requirements that are very much on the table now that you are demanding, that if they do not get compromised, would cause at least 600,000 people to lose medicaid coverage and 275,000 people would lose food stamps. it would reduce spending by $10 billion annually, which is only a fraction of the money that we are talking about. why would that be a red line? >> almost all americans agree that able-bodied individuals without dependents of working age should work in return for federal subsistance. we don't want to contribute to generational poverty.

this is a supported issue by american public. it's not just the tens of millions of dollars we would save. it's key to growing our economy, to get back to the 3% and 4% economic growth during the trump years and get away from the recession numbers experienced under president biden. it's important culturally and for our country, the virtue and the nobility of work, it's important for our country, it's important for our people. it's going to have the same impact when newt gingrich worked with bill clinton to do that. it reduced the poverty, child poverty. it helped our economy. >> that was part of the welfare reform bill. it was separate from raising the debt ceiling. what newt gingrich did was go along with raising the debt ceiling, as republicans many -- many republicans -- >> would we have a president like bill clinton that would work with republicans for the best interest of the country. this president and the democrats in the house and senate show no interest in any cuts, any reforms, any kind of fiscal

responsibility. we have to use the debt ceiling as leverage to accomplish what's in the best interest of the country. >> just to point out that some republicans, many republicans did go along with raising the debt ceiling, at least twice, under president trump. >> again, as i have noted, the 90 days we spent negotiating a debt ceiling increase, modest by d.c. standards of $1.5 trillion, in exchange for a trillion dollars in up front reduction in spending and$5 trillion over time, caps on future spending, an energy bill that will get our independence back, get the economy going, save americans hundreds of billions of dollars, those are important things, rescinding the irs expansion, resending the extreme climate environmental spending part of the inflation increase. >> what about raising the maximum age where you are

required to work for food stamps from 50 to 55? is that a red line for you? >> again, we are united that we think there should be work requirements for able-bodied people to work in return for federal subsistance. the work requirements are modest. it's up to age 59. it's only 20 hours a week. if you get folks in the habit of working 20 hours a week, most will just begin to increase that up to 30, 40 hours a week, get off subsistance. more government spending hasn't worked. we have almost nothing to show for the trillions of dollars we have spent. republicans are acting responsibly to grow our economy, which is critical for fiscal stability in general. >> are you confident -- how

optimistic, i should ask, are you that you can avoid default? >> there will not be a default unless we continue down the path we are on, reckless spending, no end in sight. the president's budget that he proposed, unbelievably would increase our national debt to $50 trillion over the next ten years instead of the $32 trillion now. we would have a default. if secretary yellen didn't prioritize payment to ensure we don't have a default by paying interest on the debt. i'm confident the senate and white house will sign -- pass and sign this bill. if we didn't, you would have a forc reduction of $100 billion a month in spending. democrats will not allow that to happen. they are addicted to spending and government. if republicans hold strong, the senate will pass and the president will sign it. >> congressman bob good, thank you. >> great to be with you. joining us now is brendan

buck. what do you think? trusted advisors, both sides, going to try to work it out. they worked late last night. are you breathing a little easier today about the possibility of default? >> i think we're on a really good path. that was a very interesting conversation that you had just now. bob good is one of the people who gave kevin mccarthy the most trouble to get the speaker's gavel in the first place. >> exactly. >> the fact that he is sticking with mccarthy so closely right now, not making any vague threats about if he doesn't get a deal that he likes, is really noteworthy. we all appreciate some of the things that congressman good was saying that he wants in the final deal are not going to happen. i'm pretty confident whatever the final deal is not something bob good supports. the fact that they are sticking by him, praising him at this point, is a good sign for kevin mccarthy's ability to bring up a

deal that conservatives don't like. he has enough standing in the conference to maybe be able to endure some of that. there won't be threats against his job. i'm not saying he is in the clear. we have a long way to go. but i find it interesting that all of those people who were so critical of kevin mccarthy for so long still have his back at this late stage of the conversations. >> that he got through that budget, and there was a lot that democrats and the white house hate. some republicans also. the fact he got that through was the initial surprise to a lot of his critics. >> the reality is, this process has gone as well as it could for kevin mccarthy. he got that big, big debt limit increase done with republican votes. he forced joe biden to have conversations with him. they are negotiating these things together, something that biden said he never would do. gone really well. yet, mccarthy is still in a very

difficult situation, very difficult. whatever final deal that they come up with is going to be a fraction of that deal that bob good was talking about. the president -- mccarthy talked about making work requirements a work line. joe biden saying he will not do anything of any consequence on work requirements. it can vary a lot. imagine this deal is not going to be sweeping, it's not going to be very -- make a huge dent in our debt. mccarthy has to figure out what to do. get himself a deal and then turn around and show it to his conference and see how they react. very good sign that bob good is not making threats at his job. ultimately, all of the things that bob good is saying he wants to get are probably not going to be in there. he has a whale of a political problem for himself after he gets a deal. >> of course, the president has a potential problem with

progressives in his own party to sell the work requirements and some of the things he is going to have to compromise on. another two weeks to go. thank you very much, brendan buck. appreciate your perspective. an update to the story we brought you about prince harry and meghan, his wife, whose spokesperson said they were involved in a, quote, near catastrophic car chase by paparazzi for two hours last night in new york city. three senior law enforcement officials say there was not a chase but they were being followed. we will bring you the latest as we get them. abortion access. the legal fight over the long-approved abortion pill gets a step closer to the supreme court. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. mitchell reports." this is msnbc. the us, you'll .

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during the final vote of the state legislature. >> the sergeant at arms will clear those that can't follow the rules. >> an emotional issue. joining me now, laura jarrett. this is, as you have been pointing out in your notes, this is going back to supreme court no matter who wins or loses. but this tees it up. >> exactly. today will all be about framing the issues that go back in front of the supreme court. a reminder for our viewers, because it's dizzying how we got here. this started last month when the judge in texas decided to invalidate the fda's 23-year approval of the drug you see on your screen, mifepristone. this set off this course of events where the justice department was going into court it seemed like every week trying

to get this blocked. they finally got the supreme court to put a temporary stay in order, which means the drug is on the market for now. it's why nothing has changed as a result of what the supreme court did. but they have to let the appeals court play out the normal process. that's why it's going to go back in front of those three judges today who tend to lean conservative. we don't know what they will do when it comes to mifepristone, but they have a history of upholding prior abortion restrictions in past cases. >> whoever wins or loses, the supreme court will eventually -- the stay, the way they wrote it, you pointed out, the stay will remain in place. it will be on the market no matter what happens today. go back to the supreme court most likely. then we will see what they do. >> right. the stay will remain in place while the supreme court decides whether to take it up. why didn't they just take it up if they knew it was going to come back? remember, they might not have had the votes for that. there might have been wrangling. this was happening at lightning

speed because they were up against a deadline with the federal judge saying the order was going into affect unless the supreme court blocked it, which they did. >> obviously, it's going to become a campaign issue. >> almost certainly. we see former president trump essentially saying, it's because of me that the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. >> debating that with ron desantis. shadow challenger. >> yes. >> laura jarrett, great to talk to you. >> nice to see you in person, as always. a u.s. army special forces veteran died while fighting in ukraine. a 45-year-old from boise, idaho, was killed in bakhmut from russian artillery fire when the building he was in collapsed while under fire. his aunt confirming his death to nbc news. his family saying he was a decorated veteran. he travelled to ukraine in 2022. molly hunter joins us from kyiv. what else are we learning?

>> reporter: andrea, nice to be with you. he traveled to kyiv like so many u.s. veterans who felt a real pull to do something to fight for what he talked about, his fellow freedom fighters, his brothers in arms. he talked about his commitment to humanitarian causes and to teaching civilians and using his skills to teach them how to become soldiers. this was a man who spent a lot of time in had country, who felt deeply committed to ukraine's success. actually, our colleague raf sanchez met him back in february and interviewed him. let's take a listen to what he actually had to say. >> this is one of the most clearcut violations of human rights and national sovereignty we have seen. i personally, with my background, i knew -- i was compelled to come help. >> reporter: we know there were

thousands and thousand sthousan possibly tens of thousands t join organizations, whether to train ukrainian soldiers, to provide medical care. but we know he was among many foreigners who came over. i want to bring you up to speed on other breaking news here in kyiv. the special representative for the chinese government, we knew -- we expected would be in kyiv. we finally have confirmation of what he was doing here, who he met with. the ukrainian foreign ministry put out a statement that said he met with the foreign minister. during the meeting, they discussed topical issues. they talked about ukraine and china on bilateral levels but also about the framework of any way to stop russian aggression. there's a lot of skepticism in some western capitals about whether or not china could be a neutral broker, be a mediator to

help or to end this war. according to the chinese government, he was on a listening tour here. we haven't heard or seen any additional pictures of his visit here. when secretary of state tony blinken was asked about china in sort of mediator or mediation role a couple of weeks ago, he did leave the door open and said it could be possibly very beneficial. we will stay on that and certainly keep you updated if we learn anything more. >> right you are, molly. the u.s. side believes this could be beneficial, that china could have some leverage with vladimir putin. of course, china is critical for propping up russia in this war effort with money and buying their discounted oil and other things they have been doing. molly hunter in kyiv, thank you very much. the ethics complaints against supreme court justice clarence thomas. senator sheldon whitehouse joining me next. you are watching "andrea

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trips, a deal to buy his mother's house and tuition at private schools for his grand nephew paid for by a republican megadonor, harlan crow. thomas said they were paid for by crow from personal hospitality, so permitted under the friends loophole. he did not have business in front of the court. he believes it would not require to be reported. crow's office said neither thomas nor his wife asked him to pay for the tuition of thomas' grand nephew and crow supported many other young americans in that way. joins me now is democratic senator sheldon whitehouse, who serves on the finance committee. there's another issue about a major conservative figure who gave donald trump the list of potential appointees, nominees to the court, and helped in the

vetting of supreme court justices and that he apparently -- information showing that it was to not disclose, helped to get money to ginni thomas, the justice's wife. >> it's a rife mix, isn't it? >> i'm wondering how you could proceed. you called on the chief justice to investigate. you called on him to testify. you tried to get harlan crow in front of your committee. so far, without any success. what are your options here? >> the thing we're doing this afternoon is to look at what happened back in 2011 when very similar questions were raised about clarence thomas, including yacht and jet travel gifts from the same billionaire and to track how those were treated through the judicial conference and its financial disclosure committee and how that worked

because that's the prequel to current allegations that are going to be reviewed through the same process. that's going to be an important look at how the judiciary handles this in-house. while we are ready with legislation, i think it would be in everybody's best interest for the judiciary to manage this problem on its own. i think we'll get some good support for that from the witness that we have this afternoon, a federal judge who was there at the time in 2011, and so by continued pressure, i think the other judges are pretty fed up with this, let's put it that way. i think the other judges can put continued pressure on the judicial conference to take the necessary steps so that this doesn't keep happening. >> just to clarify, the judicial conference is the group that oversees the ethics for all judges in the federal court system other than the supreme court, which reviews its own ethics. >> actually, it even oversees the supreme court in many

respects, and it could do a good deal more. they just cleaned up the personal hospitality exemption that supreme court justices were using that no other judge had tried to choose that way, and even justice thomas said, yes, i'll abide by that rule. the court will listen to the procedures that -- to the policies that the judicial conference set up and they do go through the procedures of the judicial conference. so there's more there to work with than you might think. >> so harlan crow as i understand it, also purchased justice thomas's mother's house, the family home in georgia. was that a loophole also? that doesn't count as hospitality. was that declared? >> no, no there's some things that are impossible to excuse under the reporting rules, and one is a transaction that's over a thousand dollars in real estate that isn't your primary

residence disqualifies, no excuses, should have been disclosed. another one is jet travel. even personal hospitality has to be food, lodging or entertainment, so being flown someplace in a jet is transportation, not food, lodging or entertainment and that clearly should have been disclosed. and then we'll go back and look at 2011 and see what was missed in that process including this directed payment from leonard leo who is the billionaire's chief mistress maker in their court packing operation. >> and describe that payment. is that the payment to ginni thomas? >> yes, yes, this was the instruction to send -- give $25,000 to mrs. thomas but make sure that it doesn't mention that it's going to her. >> how do you get this cleaned up? because the court and some people close to the court are concerned about the reputation of the court. >> and they should be. this is really stunningly bad

behavior, and nobody knows how stunningly bad this behavior is better than other judges. so i think there's a lot of pressure coming from the other federal courts, particularly the judges who sit on this judicial conference, to put pressure on the supreme court to clean it up, to fix up their own rules to clean it up, and they're willing to do that. they just did it with respect to justice scalia's trick of saying that a personal invitation produced personal hospitality. they shut that down completely and quickly, so i think there's plenty of room for the judiciary to heal its own injury here, and if not, we have legislation. >> and before i let you go, i want to ask you about the debt ceiling talks. there is optimism expressed from both the speaker and the white house after last night's talks. they've delegated trusted aides who have the confidence of both sides. are you concerned, though, that the president has talked about conceding work rules for people

on federal assistance programs? >> yes, and i'm going to wait and see what the actual outcome is before i make any decisions about how to react. i do think it's very, very, very important that the president keep his constitutional option on the table in case negotiations break down. the absolute worst thing that could happen would be a default. we always use big words on television. i think it's fair to say that that would be economically cataclysmic, not only in the united states but around the world and that speaker mccarthy is playing with dynamite whose danger he does not fully appreciate. and the sooner he puts the pin back in the grenade and we can go back to regular order and behave like the constitution suggests we should, the better off we'll all be. >> you're talking about the 14th amendment. it would be litigated forever,

could the economy survive? >> not necessarily. >> okay. not necessarily. i would get to the supreme court very quick will if i were the president of the united states with stakes like the economic cataclysm that would be pending, and i think i could make a convincing argument this is a political question between the president and the congress and the court shouldn't get involved. they should call it a political question and walk away and let the branches handle it. and what that does is it de-fuses the hand grenade forever. >> senator sheldon whitehouse, thank you very much. good luck with your hearing today. >> thanks. we have another update to the story we just brought you a few moments ago about prince harry and his wife meghan whose spokesperson said they were involved in a near catastrophic car chase by paparazzi. the nypd says, quote, there were numerous photographers that made their transport challenging. the duke and duchess of sussex arrived at their destination, and there were no reported

collisions, summons, injuries, or arrested in this regard. we'll keep you updated on all the latest details as we get them right here on msnbc. that does it for us for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports" follow the show online on facebook, twitter @mitchellreports. "chris jansing reports" right after this break. reports" righ after this break it's already sold in the us. but i'm not taking any chances. the uk's #1 skincare has crossed the pond. sam was 8 when we got him. giving him fresh food where you know the ingredients and you know what's in it has absolutely helped him. taking care of him is really important... because even if sam lives to 20, it won't be long enough.

♪♪ good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. today republicans are testing the limits of state power, leveraging their supermajorities to broaden abortion bans in multiple states. key moves in just the last 24 hours in four different states including north carolina. which until now was one of a vanishing few options for women seeking abortion access across the south. and speaking of testing limits can president biden broker a deal on the debt