trump base. you saw that with a lot of the things he's done in florida, which is alienating his own donors and some of his supporters. this is the problem. running to his right isn't going to peel away trump voters. the hard core base isn't going away. desantis will keep making this argument, but we've also seen "the washington post" poll last week that suggests that desantis and trump are equal against biden. >> right. >> if there were more polls like that, desantis' entire reason for being evaporates. >> running to the right of trump in a republican primary seems to only hurt your chances in a general election. trump lost the popular vote both times he ran for president. jonathan, thanks for hanging with us. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪♪

beautiful sunrise in washington, d.c. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 18th. donald trump has claimed that he could declassify materials just by thinking about them. like "i dream of jeannie." but there is new evidence in the mar-a-lago documents investigation that proves he knows it's not true. the former president is seizing on two failed endorsements in florida from governor ron desantis, while ignoring the lack of success his candidates had in the last election. also ahead, the latest on the debt ceiling negotiations with both sides digging in on one big issue. we'll explain what that is. and we're keeping an eye on president biden this morning as he is in japan for the g7 summit. welcome, everybody. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire.

former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan is with us. and former white house director of communications to president obama, jen palmieri. she is co-host of showtime's "the circus." also with us this morning, former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele joins us. and i see, i spy joe scarborough showed up on time this morning. joe? >> it was close. >> wow. >> i've got to tell ya, i didn't know if i was going to make it. >> me either. >> yeah, last night, i was -- yeah. >> heard you had a big night out with mike barnicle. >> as is usually the case with mike barnicle, i mean, we can't go anywhere in peace. we go outside, and he's got his subaru. we run across the street, and,

willie, i don't -- >> joe, stop. >> be strong. >> come on. >> hold on. >> don't do it. >> it was tension city. i'm telling you, this was nearly catastrophic. >> stop, stop. [ laughter ]. >> come on. >> this is mike's subaru. >> out back, yeah. >> these are all the paparazzi mugs, right? it was like this. like, you couldn't -- >> like bumper cars. >> bumper cars almost, right? going around the city, four hours. >> that's hard to do. >> but he's a good driver. >> you guys are laughing. >> he's a good laughing. >> joe. >> for four hours. >> that is harrowing, joe. i'm so sorry. >> we're being chased around like we're cased animals, i tell you. we're not animals!

>> was it the women, too? women were just, you know -- >> it's just barnicle. he's a magnet. i'm telling you, willie, four hours. they're savages. now, listen, the cabdriver, we jumped into a cab, like out of "a hard day's night," one car to the other, we're running in there, and they're chasing us. swear to god, got just crushed. >> joe, stop. >> it was horrible. i tell ya, i tell ya, man, we get in -- we get in the cab. >> okay. >> hold on! >> stop. >> we get into the cab, willie. and the cabdriver later says it wasn't dangerous. it was like a picnic. >> it's new york city. >> what is it? nearly catastrophic. >> he didn't even know who you were in the backseat.

it was a normal pick up and drop. >> i mean -- >> this happened also -- here's the only segue i have, folks. >> no. >> i understand it, also, this is happening a lot, mika. >> yeah. >> goodness sakes, this is horrible. this is happening all over america. >> now, it's not. >> is t.j. here? >> it's kara. >> hold on a second. >> where am i going? >> this camera right here. >> you are -- >> it's happening! >> this is stressful for the director. >> this is happening all over. it's a scourge. >> you know, we have mayor eric adams on the show. >> i'm going to ask him. >> ask about your harrowing ordeal. >> four hours. >> if the city is not safe for you and mike barnicle, the city has real problems. >> exactly. what's happened? four hours. >> just be nice. it could have been tough. >> mika, come on. >> i'm just saying. >> a two-hour chase around new

york city. >> just saying. >> the cabdriver is like, eh, no, i wouldn't -- >> stop. >> -- call it dangerous. >> they were in an suv going 80 on the highway, which is also questionable judgment. i think -- >> wait, wait, hold on a second. can i just say, can i just say, 80 miles on the -- here's the deal. >> fdr. >> once you get on the fdr, there are no speed limits. if you're going up the henry hudson, i'm thinking only 80? seriously, willie, you and me, we've probably broke 100 going up -- >> like "fast and furious" out there. you're vin diesel. i'm ludacris. >> mike barnicle swerving in between us. >> the hatchback. >> it's crazy. i got a kia van, mini van, and that thing takes off. >> it goes. >> it kicks in. >> those things are amazing. >> they are.

i love it. listen, here's the deal, willie, i would love, like, to give everybody a recounting of this, the nearly catastrophic chase for two hours. >> you mentioned the cabdriver who drove -- are they still the duke and duchess? they got rid of those. >> "the post" is exaggerating. >> harry and meghan. he picked them up and said, "it wasn't so bad." new york police publicly were a little more tempered. privately said, no, we have cameras. no arrests. . let's get the full story. >> i've already told my story. >> i'm going to clean my purse out. >> of course, harry has memories of what happened to his mother as the context for all this. >> of course. >> here's nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez with more. >> meghan! meghan! >> reporter: prince harry and his wife meghan markle seen leaving a charity event in new york, and there appeared to be differing accounts about what happened next. a spokesperson for the duke and

duchess of sussex admonishing photographers for a relentless pursuit that lasted two hours and resulted in multiple near collisions involving other drivers on the road, pedestrians and two nypd officers. adding, the near catastrophic car chase came at the hands of a ring of highly aggressive paparazzi. >> the briefing i received, you know, two of our officers could have been injured. i thought that was a bit reckless and irresponsible. >> reporter: three law enforcement sources tell nbc news the couple was followed, not chased, and the incident was a bit chaotic, not near catastrophic. >> i would find it hard to believe that there was a two-hour high-speed chase. >> reporter: in a written statement, the nypd says numerous photographers made the couple's transport challenging, but there were no reported collisions, injuries or arrests. harry and meghan had private security as they left this venue, and two private law enforcement sources say they wanted to return to manhattan's

upper east side where they were staying with a friend and did not want the paparazzi to follow. so law enforcement sources say the couple was driven up and down manhattan for more than an hour with a police escort, then the couple was taken to this precinct where a taxi picked them up. would you describe it as chaotic? >> chaotic, yeah. >> reporter: catastrophic? >> i don't know what happened previous in the day. with me, it was chaotic but not crazy, crazy, right? >> reporter: do you think the paparazzi went too far? >> you know, i don't know. when we were there, they were following us in my cab. >> reporter: sonny told us he is the taxi driver who picked up the couple, but they drove around only ten minutes before the street was blocked by a garbage truck. >> people just came out of nowhere with cameras and started snapping pictures. >> reporter: did they seem worried? >> worried and nervous, as well. >> reporter: he dropped them back off at the police precinct where a different car took them home. prince harry raised against the

paparazzi much of his life, accusing them of invading his privacy. >> i did everything i could to protect my family. >> reporter: critics say harry and meghan also court the cameras and publicity, pointing to their ddocu-series. >> no one sees what's happening behind closed doors. >> reporter: 26 years ago this summer that his mother, princess diana, died during a car chase in paris. >> you get followed, photographed, chased, harassed. the clicking of cameras and the flashes of cameras makes my blood boil. it makes me angry, takes me back to what happened to my mom, what i experienced as a kid. >> you absolutely understand why he feels that way. won't get a defense of the paparazzi here, generally speaking, but the new york city police department did say it was chaotic, not near catastrophic, but they are looking at every traffic camera, every corner of the city is covered by a camera. if anybody committed a crime, they'll find them. >> the police are saying, for the record, it wasn't really -- it was much to do about nothing.

the cabdriver said, oh, they followed a respectful distance. >> you know what? who wants to be followed? when they have to drive elsewhere to get out of the way, they have to drive around for however long, it's not okay. it's harassment. >> come on. you follow me around. all the time. >> well, that's -- >> all the time. >> -- a little different. that's the other way around but okay. >> i follow you around, okay? you call that harassment? >> i do. i do. >> you get lost. >> no, i don't. >> you never seen anybody -- she has the worst eyesight. >> let's turn to politics. i do have bad eyesight. >> you're guiding her really. >> is this a good time for me to say i'm legally blind? i have special contacts. >> obviously, you're married to me. >> ah! [ laughter ] >> i'm making the turn. >> set that up. >> mika, what do we do here?

>> i'm going to turn to politics. >> you just -- when you work the catskills the way i do, don't set up any pitches. >> you and jackie mason doing a bill up there. >> judge hit any home runs last night? >> they lost, extra innings. >> really? >> yeah, pitcher's duel, gave up a walk-off in the tenth inning. still in fourth place, not last. >> lupica had declared the sox's season over two nights ago, is and now we've won two. he is texting all of us saying, "this is a team of destiny." >> real roller coaster ride, being a red sox fan. the end of the world one night, the world series the next. don't need that. >> it's a marathon, baby. >> of course. >> it is like driving your car through new york city. it takes hours and hours just to go, like, three blocks. >> that's true. >> it's a marathon. lemire, why don't we bring you into this? >> too much. >> mika, we'll get to the polling. >> yeah. >> by the way, we're leading

with this polling because it's in "the new york post," which is, of course, what is it, willie? >> paper of record. >> it's a paper of record for "morning joe." do you think if we say that enough, they'll invite us over and let us go through and just -- >> no. >> -- see the printing presses. >> that'd be fun. >> wouldn't that be fun to go to "the new york post." >> meet the headline writer. >> they're incredible. >> "duke of hazards" was excellent. >> exactly. >> you're in full regis mode right now, by the way. >> wow, that's it. >> oh, let's see here. let's see. there's the -- well, they had it online. maybe they didn't put it in the paper. biden has this seven-point lead over trump, according to "the new york post," the new york poll. >> there it is. >> biden is absolutely crushing donald trump in this poll. now, do i think that this is the end all, be all poll? i mean, it's in "the new york

post," so of course i do. but, other than that, are we going to talk about this poll now for a month like we talked about the one bad joe biden poll? we showed you a poll the other day that was from "the economist," one of the most respected publications on the planet. they had joe biden at 50%. do i think he is at 50%? probably not. maybe it's an outlier. guess what? i didn't hear the media talk about that for a week and a half. i didn't have, like, democrats telling me they had to tear the sheets from their bed because they wet their bed for a week, talking about how badly joe biden was going to do next year. it's all very selective. i swear to god, it's the one poll, the one poll, and people are still writing articles, like, in major newspapers saying, well, joe biden, you know he has a 36% approval rating, and the world is coming to an end. well, "new york post," paper of record, what do they have him

at? they have him crushing donald trump, 47-40. "the economist" has him at 50% among registered voters. let's talk about these for a week. seriously, let's talk about these for a week. if we're talking outliers, it's just stupid. that's all i have to say. but let's go to jonathan lemire. i almost got to news. >> please. >> i was a little concerned about that. it's like i was swerving around new york for four hours and didn't know where i was going. let's talk about the boston celtics quickly. that's what people want. they want to see your pain. they wan to see your suffering. they want to see your irish anguish spill out all over the screen. >> oh. >> tell us about your boston celtics last night. >> good morning to you, too, joe, glad you survived yesterday's harrowing ordeal. this is who the celtics are. they're extremely talented but deeply inconsistent and a frustrating team. they look like the best team in the league one night, the game seven win against philadelphia,

and the next day -- >> can i interrupt and say i don't care about the nba? does anybody? >> i do. >> willie does. go ahead. >> i'll direct this. willie, good morning to you. >> well done. >> yeah, jimmy butler, he goes to another level every postseason. the celtics had a nine-point lead at half and blew it. they came out, gave up 46 points in the third quarter, and they lose another home playoff game. so this doesn't mean the series is over, but miami, seven seed or not, they absolutely could win. they're smart. they're tough. better coached than the celtics. it'll be a long series. >> yeah, it's a shame. it's a real shame. >> it's been -- >> red sox won, though, 12-3. >> red sox won. mike lupica now thinks they're the greatest on the planet. jen -- hold on, here's the red sox. >> oh, my lord. >> they crushed seattle. they got swept by the cardinals, who are having one of the worst seasons ever. caused panic in boston. you're right, everybody needs to get a paper bag -- >> long run. >> -- take it to -- you know, fill it up with, like, ribs and

hot dogs, eat the ribs and hot dogs, then breathe into the bag. >> take a -- >> it's only may, people. >> it's only may, exactly. let's talk really quickly about joe biden. >> oh, okay. wait, what? >> no, no, we talked about the poll for a second. swear to god, i'm getting so sick and tired. i can't talk to a democrat without them just collapsing. >> about that one poll? >> biden is old. he is going to lose. he was at 38% in the polls. they talk just like that, all of them do. i was like, do you people -- like, i've heard this about biden repeatedly. he's too old to win. he won in 2020. he's too old to get anything done. he's too old to understand you can't pass bipartisan legislation. he passes the most bipartisan legislation since, i don't know, maybe lbj. >> yeah. >> it goes on and on. he's too old. we're going to get crushed in the midterms. there's going to be a red wave. he has a historic midterm.

he's too old. yeah, i know he won the midterm, but he's too old. he does the state of the union. they go, he looks really good. this keeps going on. >> shows up in kyiv few weeks later. >> shows up in kyiv. oh, he's mighty. two days later, oh, he's too old. you know, then this poll comes out a week and a half ago, and everybody freaks out over it. nobody paying attention to the other polls that have him crushing donald trump. >> he does. oh, and he doesn't do press conferences, then he takes a lot of questions and does really well. puts mccarthy in a box. you know, mccarthy, they've had two meetings on the debt limit. both times, mccarthy and mcconnell had to say, we're not going to default, continuing to put the republicans in a box. that doesn't happen. i think if the -- i mean, you know, i was the white house communications director for barack obama. i know how frustrating it is when the press doesn't give you any wins, but i think that the white house is feeling, despite the hang wringing, proof of

concept. it's working, right? the economy, wages are growing, inflation continues to go down. the border, when title 42 went away, they feel like that plan is working, that the numbers did not end up being as high as they expected it to be. now, he's at the g7. does he have to come home early? yes, he does, to deal with republican dysfunction. there are consequences to what the republicans do. but on, like -- the polls are still lower than they would like, but kind of -- at least in every sector, foreign policy, with ukraine, the economy is slated to get better, getting the republicans in a box on debt limit, proof of concept, it's working. democrats will always fret, always. >> michael steele, if you look inside this poll, as well, for the bedwetters that joe is talking about, there's more encouraging numbers, which is the independent number. as you know very well, it is decisive in a general election.

biden is plus 14 among independents. if you look deeper, donald trump's approval rating among independent voters is 21%. 21%. disapproval is in the 70s. that's where the election is won or lost. donald trump is doing terribly with them, and that's not getting any better, especially off the cnn town hall. >> it is not. that is where the last few cycles have been for republicans. they cannot pull those suburban independent voters back to the stable with them. and the republicans are myriad. there's abortion. there is gun legislation. there is, to what was said about the economy, people, while they may say, you know, to joe's point, oh, the sky is falling, there's a disaggregation of how people feel about certain things and how they're going to vote. i think at the back end of this,

which is a very interesting kind of piece, this whole democracy thing, which people sort of blew off, is still a threat. the narratives around a president who has now been, you know, adjudicated to have sexually, you know, offended, abused a woman, these types of narratives do not help with independent voters. they just don't. yes, there is a desire to get into policy and to talk about what the economy is going to look like, what's going to happen at the border, et cetera, but then you have all these other actions that are being performed by the characters inside the gop. that's around abortion that we see playing out in state legislatures. it is around, you know, the sort of crazy conversations that marjorie taylor greene types are having, that have been raised up inside the party by the

republican leadership to speak for them. those voters are hearing that and going, i'm not doing crazy. i'm not, i just can't. >> yeah. >> so you're seeing that reflected in a lot of these numbers. while people want to fixate on, oh, well, joe biden is old or joe biden has a bad poll, voters invariably, to joe's earlier point, are falling back to the point that, i can't do crazy. there is no red wave. i can't do crazy. democrats are winning these special elections in places like florida, in some of the largest cities that they shouldn't be winning in. so -- >> from jacksonville to wisconsin to kansas, democrats have been wildly overperforming, even in red areas. >> that's exactly right, joe. >> i mean, how much does abortion have to play with that when you look at these, what's happening in these states? i just can't imagine that these

bans, these stricter laws on a procedure that women need for their health isn't impacting the way even some republicans vote. i'm sorry, whether they say it or not, they understand that women need health care. it's not their business, or that women need health care. >> can i just put an exclamation point on that? i think a lot of the public narrative around this issue is way off base. people want to fall into this pro life versus, you know, pro choice camp. you know, the world is just kind of moving in this pro life direction. the reality of it is, a lot of pro life voters do not like what has been happening in these state legislatures, do not like what's been happening with criminalizing the wombs of women, penalizing those who help them, who are trying to get the kind of medical care and attention that they need. so, if you keep believing that everybody is buying what you're selling, you continue to sell

bad stuff. you're seeing this play out in ways that, you know, kansas city becomes a real big example of the problem the party is having on an issue like abortion. >> well, we're going to continue this conversation because we finally got to it, with some political news coming up. the political tension between donald trump and ron desantis. we have evidence of that. also, evidence, potentially, that donald trump knew he was mishandling classified documents. that's all ahead on "morning joe."

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what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ it's almost half past the hour. evidence cited in a new report may undercut former president donald trump's claims that the secret documents he took to

mar-a-lago were automatically declassified. cnn reports the national archives has informed the former president it will give special counsel jack smith 16 records that show trump and his top advisers had knowledge of the correct declassification process while he was president. in a may 16th letter, the acting archivist writes to trump, quote, the 16 records in question all reflect communications involving close presidential advisers, some of them directed to you personally, concerning whether, why, and how you should declassify certain classified records. the letter has not been independently verified by nbc news. the letter reportedly goes on to say, trump tried to block the special counsel from accessing the 16 records by asserting a claim of constitutionally-based privilege. but the archivist rejects that

claim by trump. stating in a letter, the special counsel's office, quote, is prepared to demonstrate with specificity to a court why it is likely that the 16 records contain evidence that would be important to the grand jury's investigation. joe, this seems like -- i mean, he just constantly says he, like "i dream of jeanne," can blink and the documents are declassified. there is going to be a problem for the former president if he doubles down on lies about taking classified documents away from where they're supposed to be in government archives. >> yeah, no doubt about it. elise, you know, he has said, donald trump has said, well, all i have to do is think about it, and they're declassified. there is a process. the importance of this, obviously, is they have records now of the archives working with

trump, saying, if you want to declassify these documents, this is a proper way to do it. they got it. now, donald trump is trying to assert privilege, as mika said. this supreme court, the roberts supreme court, they reject every one of his claims when it comes to things like this. so it is, it is going to be extraordinarily important when it comes to intent. >> well, he had a chance to come clean, sensibly, and, yet, he still went back and messed around with the documents, tried to still intercept documents. >> right. >> that's not good for him. because you look at the way that president biden handled it, the way that vice president pence handled it, and it was just such dramatically different circumstances. so this case, to me, seems like he's at more of a risk of legal peril, really, than political peril. i don't think voters, frankly, care that much or understand that much object classified documents. but the legal risk seems to be. >> willie, they do understand about obstruction.

>> yeah. >> that's what separates him from everybody else that's done this. they understand about lying. do you have more documents? no, i don't. will you sign something where you swear you have no other documents? sure, we'll sign it, fbi. they give it back, and they're lying. they understand that. that's his biggest problem there. that, the obstruction, the lying, and then georgia, i think those are his real problems as he moves forward as a candidate. >> well, that's the difference between mike pence and joe biden, which is, the they found them in boxes, they alerted the proper authorities, went through the channels and gave them back. you have obstruction in this case, and that's why the fbi, mika, had to get a search warrant, to go and get the rest of those documents. we talked about the additional trouble that donald trump made for himself at last week's cnn town hall. he said, quote, when asked about this, i took what i took, which sounds like confession to a lot of people. >> and said it was okay for him to show it to whoever he wanted to show it to. >> didn't his lawyer quit?

>> then his lawyer quit. >> good chain of events there. >> exactly. >> i haven't really heard him tell one clear story on this yet. i don't think anyone has. but that's going to be played out in the court of law. we'll see what happens legally. politically, the problem for former president trump often can be losing. now, there's tension between the former president and the florida governor, ron desantis, who is expected to enter the 2024 republican primary field in the coming weeks. donald trump is ratcheting up his attacks against his likely opponent in a series of posts on his social media site yesterday. trump mocked desantis for endorsing two republicans who lost state elections on tuesday. ron's magic is gone, he wrote after the desantis-backed candidate finished third to the trump-backed candidate in

kentucky's republican primary for governor. trump also bemoaned republicans' loss in jacksonville, florida, the mayoral election on tuesday, claiming, quote, if they would have asked me to endorse the candidate, they would have won easily. >> you don't understand. >> i don't. >> the candidate he endorsed in the jacksonville race is weird. he's not have jacksonville. dr. oz, you can't be worse than dr. oz. michael steele, if you're going to win, like, you have to stop endorsing dr. oz. he's not even from jacksonville. i guess he voted for erdogan this past week. i'm not sure who he voted for over there. come on, did he really think the good people of jacksonville were going to vote for a tv doctor? >> there's so much winning. i don't know how republicans stand it. >> i'm tired of it, to be honest with you. they have to be exhausted. >> just, you know, i wish -- you

know, if i knew to keep my job at the rnc, all i had to do was lose, dang, dude, i could have signed up for that. look, this is an interesting tension inside the gop. i just don't know if the base gives a damn about it. it's a very weird signal out there, that there's a -- i think there's a longer play here, joe. i'd love to get your thoughts on how i'm looking at this. because i don't think the base is as put out as the establishment obvious is. they want the power and the control. the base thinks they can get that power and control in other ways. and so these big races that everyone kind of focuses on and says, "well, this is a turning point, this means that, this means this," a lot of the rank and file folks are like, okay, if you say so. i look around and see where they're winning at school board elections, where they're winning, you know, at local

levels, where they're taking over infrastructure and control of, you know, electoral processes. there's a longer play here, a longer strategy that sets up a much more difficult future for the country, i think, in many respects. so, you know, these sort of losses in the horse races that are called by the mainstream media, for example, or "morning joe," right, they look at that and go, "okay, you focus on that. we have another play. there's a longer term." i think the press oftentimes fixates on ron desantis and, you know, donald trump, and the base is like, oh, we're with trump. y'all keep on talking about this going someplace else. >> right. >> i just think you lose sight of the longer play. i really do. >> i think what i obsess over is five, six states that are going

to determine whether we have a fascist in the white house or somebody who supports american democracy. >> that's right. >> so i keep saying, i keep talking about the same six, seven states, and you can say, why is he always -- well, because on election night, those states are going to matter. in those states, there are going to be counties. you know, a handful of counties that are going to determine who wins that race. the school board race in omaha or in -- well, omaha actually matters for the one electoral vote that goes back and forth. idaho, i'm not really focused on that as much as, you know, jen, i hate to keep saying it, the suburbs of atlanta. >> right. >> the suburbs of philly. the suburbs of detroit. the suburbs of milwaukee, maricopa county. when i look at independent voters breaking away from either

candidate -- right now they're breaking away from donald trump -- and when i look at actions that make them breakaway, that suddenly makes a big difference. when i look at -- because i can tell you, when i won in '94, it was a huge shock that we took over the house of representatives. but if you had looked where republicans had won in '93, you would have said, oh, well, i can connect those dots and see. you look at the huge democratic wins in '18, you know, i remember reading stories in '17 about democrats winning delaware county, pennsylvania, county commissioner races for the first time in 100 years. you go, well, that's something. democrats winning an incredible turnaround in the virginia assembly. nobody believed it. it was a shock? 2017. i kept seeing the women waiting

in line when it was raining, and i said, that's significant. i could name five other races in 2017 that trump republicans lost. it does, connect the dots, it does actually matter. i believe it does show you what's going to be happening the next year. >> i looked at the turnout numbers for colorado springs and jacksonville yesterday, because you thought, all right, these were unusual, democrat won in colorado springs and jacksonville. is it low turnout? did these people win by eking out? no, it was a big turnout in both cities, higher than the previous one. it shows you that people are paying attention. the six-week abortion ban that just passed in florida, what that did to the jacksonville mayor's race. >> right. >> maybe there's polls that show ron desantis beating joe biden, i don't know. not when people understand he's for a six-week abortion ban.

>> why do you think, joe, he waded into that, ron desantis? you know florida politics. it seemed like he, for a while, stayed away. i thought he's going to be smart enough to avoid this hot potato, and then he has to go there. >> i will say, it's just people who lack the touch. they really do. you look at donald trump. why does donald trump act so crazy and act so radical? it's because he's not really a republican. he's not really a conservative. from the beginning, he said, okay, i'm a manhattan democrat. i swear to god, this is it. i've known the guy. i'm a manhattan democrat. i'm very liberal on abortion. i'm very liberal on -- donald trump very liberal on banning guns. he was very liberal on all of these issues. so when he decided to run, he said, okay, what are those

backwater, red neck republicans thinking? he doesn't have the touch. because he's not conservative, he goes extreme. ron desantis, he doesn't have the touch. he's like, okay, i can't lose anybody. instead of, you know, when i ran in '94, everybody was talking about abortion. everybody was talking about guns. they asked me, said, where are you on abortion? i said, i'm pro life. the national debt continues to explode. the national debt -- you know, education needs to be decentralized. because i was a conserative and i am a conservative, i understand. i had the whole thing my whole life. i just knew, like, in my district at least, people won't obsess over that. throw it out there, and then talk about issues that will bring independents in. talk about issues that will bring democrats and swing voters in. these guys don't have the touch. it's all just, like, a wrecking

ball. that's what i don't -- lemire, i just, there has to be a republican out there. swear to god, there has to be a republican out there that cares about the things that i care about, that cares about the things that americans care about. we have a $31 trillion national debt. we've got republicans talking about retreating and appeasing vladimir putin. we've got republicans talking about six-week abortion bans. if they had just -- if all of this would have been for naught, republicans would have the high ground on abortion. democrats won't like this, but this is the reality. if john roberts had been able to convince kavanaugh or amy coney barrett, just come with me, sign onto the 15-week mississippi abortion ban with exceptions, that's where the majority of americans are right now.

if they had done that, none of these conversations would have been had. republicans wouldn't be running for the hills on the issue of abortion. but, again, no touch. they take the extreme position. that will lead to democrats winning more elections and more pro choice justices going on the supreme court. it's self-defeating. >> yeah, there may be republicans like that out there, joe, but they're not in positions of prominence here in washington. they're not on the 2024 campaign trail, at least not -- at least not yet. instead, you have a party that is continually shifting to the right and putting itself in extreme positions on issues like abortion, certainly, and also guns and others that are out of step from where the american people are. right now, there are two leaders in the primary field, trump and desantis. we often see this from trump, following him so closely for so many years, where he takes his biggest vulnerability and tries

to use it as a weapon against his opponent. in this case, it's the endorsement with desantis. we're starting to see the broad contours, the beginnings of a desantis strategy here, and it's frankly been echoing what you've said on the show on a daily basis. all the losses republicans have taken. we heard it from desantis in a vague way earlier in the week, but it caught a lot of attention in the party. they wonder if that is desantis' main argument going forward. running more to the right is difficult to sell in a general election, but he is trying to make the case that trump, though not attacking him personally, but trump has overseen a culture of losing in the republican party, and desantis has a chance to win. he has to turn up attacks on trump. you can't take down the king without shooting at him. this is -- some people in the party believe that's where desantis is eventually starting to go. we should hear his announcement for a candidacy as soon as next

week. >> abortion, i have to say, abortion has been a huge issue. much larger issue than i even expected. i knew the overturning would make a difference. just nothing, the political earthquake that it is. >> state after state. >> among republicans, among people who called themselves pro life their entire life. the extreme positions state legislatures are taking, including a six-week abortion ban, i guarantee you jen is right, that made a big difference in jacksonville. i want to talk really quickly before we go to break about reading in mississippi and alabama. i mean, you know, two states i love, two states i've lived in, i hear they're 49th in this, 50th in that, and i roll my eyes. did you read about the mississippi miracle yesterday? mississippi's reading scores have shot way up. >> yeah. >> yes. >> the alabama miracle. i mean, it's really -- it's so

heartening. maybe offers a road map for other areas in states that may be doing better but where there are pockets of illiteracy, to really help reading. this is just such good news for the kids. >> really good news. let's hope it's a program that can be modelled in other places around the country. that is something that i love about mississippi and alabama, i'll give alabama credit, too, the literature culture is so strong. it's one of our best exports. i'm glad that, for now, more children are learning to read. >> elise and i both learned to read in mississippi, right. >> yes. >> joe probably, too. >> i learned to read in mississippi. forgot how to read in alabama. i'm joking. i learned how to read, yeah, in mississippi. >> yeah. >> i got great memories of mississippi. i love that state. >> here's the stat, joe. mississippi, which for a long time was ranked second worst in the country in childhood

literacy, moved up to 21st in a decade. >> amazing. >> they say a lot of it is early intervention. identifying kids who need the help using phonics, finding kids and giving them specialized help, getting them to catch up to their classmates sooner. it's lifted so many kids. it is great news. we emphasize great news out of the south on that. >> such great news, mika. all right. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> listen to the yankee. the yankee doesn't care. >> what? >> mika cares. >> she doesn't care. >> i care. >> she blows right through it. >> i'm trying -- >> well, northeast -- >> oh, wait a minute. >> thirsten powell iii. >> this has been -- >> thirsten howell? between the "i dream of jeanne" reference and you bringing up "gilligan's island," we are dating ourselves. >> one other thing here. we're going around the curve, right? this is columbus circle, right? >> that's tough. >> spinning out. i'm in the subaru, right?

fortunately, this stays low to the ground. this swerves. it's up on two wheels, like "fast and furious." >> wow. >> we go around the cop. >> all right. >> we're up broadway before you know it. we're passing the beacon. it's just beautiful. >> still no 911 calls or collisions, though. amazing. >> no, no, i know. we wanted to take it, but it was -- >> low profile. >> -- tension city. >> chaotic but not catastrophic. >> nearly catastrophic. is that the quote, nearly catastrophic. >> that's my daily life, nearly catastrophic. >> mika, did you hear about the good news in mississippi about kids being able to read better. >> i did. it is wonderful, truly wonderful. >> you care. we're now going to go to a break. coming up on "morning joe," president biden in japan for the g7 summit, while the default deadline looms here at home. we'll have where things stand on the ongoing debt ceiling negotiation. plus, what's next for

indicted congressman george santos, after a resolution to expel the republican from the house is referred to the ethics committee. also ahead, access to the abortion pill faces a new legal test. we'll have the latest on the case being considered by a federal appeals court. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. tryi o control my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ enough was enough. i talked to an asthma specialist and found out my severe asthma is driven by eosinophils, a type of asthma nucala can help control. now, fewer asthma attacks and less oral steroids that's my nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of

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52 past the hour. president biden touched down in japan earlier this morning to meet with world leaders at the g7 summit, but the debt ceiling talks continue to loom over washington. the latest sticking point for both sides, work requirements for federal aid recipients. biden said he would not accept, quote, anything of consequence on the republican's demand, while house speaker kevin

mccarthy says the issue is his red line. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner is at the big wall with charts, explaining this dilemma. steve, what cha got? >> mika, we've been talking during the debt ceiling thing about spending cuts and the extent of the spending cuts the republicans want, but we should talk for a minute about revenues, particularly because there were some new numbers that came out yesterday from the congressional budget office that kind of underscore what the republicans have in mind on revenues. kevin mccarthy is on record as saying he wants to extend the trump tax cuts, which are supposed to expire starting the middle of this decade, but make them permanent. there's look at what the impact of that would be. as i said, they start to expire, so there's not a lot of revenue loss, if you extend them in the first couple years. then it jumps up really quickly.

this was done to conform with archaic rules the senate has. this would cost the treasury $400 billion a year starting in 2027. reaching $500 billion at the end of the window we look at. this would have a massive increase on the deficit. the deficit before you do this the next ten years is going to be $20 trillion. that's trillion with a "t." extending the tax cuts and making them permanent would add $3.5 trillion. >> you're telling me kevin mccarthy is talking about how they need to be fiscally responsible, but they want to add $3.5 trillion to the debt as part of these negotiations? >> not as part of the negotiations. i mentioned this because the cbo yesterday came out with this new score, as we call it, of what it would cost.

kevin mccarthy is on record as saying that, as and when the republicans get control of congress and the white house back, this is what they want to do. >> $3.5 trillion. okay, that's sort of inconsistent. go ahead. >> >> tcja, the trump tax cut, as a reminder, let's talk about what extending the tax cuts would mean. of the total amount of the trump tax cuts, 54% of that went to people making more than $75,000 a year. 31% went to business and only 16% of the tax cuts we now want to extend and make permanent went to people making less than $75,000 a year. another way to look at this is what was the impact on people's -- what would be the impact on people's after tax income of making those tax cuts permanent? this is by income. if you're in the top 1%, $700,000 of income or more, your

after tax income would go up by 3.4%. $400,000 to $700,000, your after tax income would go up by 4.1%. everybody else, the bottom 80%, none of the bottom 80%, on average, would see their incomes go up by as much as 2%. these are highly regressive tax cuts that favor the rich that republicans want to extend as soon as they get enough control of congress and the white house to do it. >> what's your next chart? >> my next chart gets to the point you were making, joe, about the actual impact of what the republicans want to do on the deficit. if you start here, the limit save and grow plan, which is what is on the table right now in the white house, which, as we talked about last week, would cut 47% of spending from what we call discretionary programs, it'd save $4.8 trillion. as you pointed out, we'd give back $3.5 trillion.

you end up with a deficit reduction of only $1.3 trillion. >> steve, the $4.8 trillion, that's not a real number. they're talking about absolutely savaging the government, savaging the ability for the government to do the most basic of things. you look at what they want to do to the irs. yes, the irs. here's an agency that's been slashed, the funding for the irs has been slashed so much, that if you as a working class or middle class american have a tax refund coming, and you don't get it, good luck getting on the phone, getting the irs to answer. they don't have many people left to answer the phones. if you do, you're going to be waiting on the phone for hours and hours. if the irs messes up something and you need to talk to a live human being at the irs, good luck getting them on the phone. the softwareanequated.

they just talk about going to middle america and kill people with ar-15s, what an aging republican senator has said. again, you look, that's not even a real number. they're saying, let's cut everything that the government does. it's absolute insanity. >> 47%, joe, of all those discretionary programs at the department of agricultural, labor, people who make your food and water safe, 47%. the irony on the irs is that the irs actually makes the government money. if you cut the budget, spending and revenues go down because they're not doing as many audits. they're not policing the wealthy taxpayers. >> guess what we can do here? we can go to the grocery store and be pretty darn sure that when we buy groceries, it's not going to poison our kids. we can be pretty sure when we drink water, it'll be taken care

of. in the few cases where that's not the case, it makes national news for months. flint, michigan, makes national news for months. why? because we have government agencies that make sure that when your children, your family, your parents, your grandparents turn on the faucet, clean water comes out. the food is fine. when you get on an airplane, put your loved ones on an airplane, you know that it's the safest thing that you actually can do. not only in america but in the world, because it is so safe. by the way, steve, that takes a lot of money. all of this takes money for us to live in the kind of country that we live in right now. they're talking about slashing food safety, slashing air safety. they're talking about slashing the ability of americans to get their tax refunds back in a timely manner. i mean, there are radical,

radical consequences to this number. this number is never going to pass. this is never -- congress will never pass this. the president will never sign it. a republican president would never sign this. i'm just saying, they're coming -- i can't swear because some kids have woken up. they've come to these negotiations with numbers that are rank horse crap. they're sitting there with a straight face going, "oh, joe biden won't cut, but let's ramp up the trump tax cuts again so the richest people in america can get richer." >> can't argue with that, joe. that's essentially what they are doing. on top of that, they don't even make that much of a difference in the deficit they claim they're so worried about. you can see that out here. our deficit hit $3 trillion during the pandemic for lots of good reasons. we had to spend the money. we have it down to $1.5 trillion. this dotted black line, it is

going to continue to go up on its own simply because of increased costs for social security, medicare, things like that. here's the interesting thing. if you look at the two republican plans, the just cut spending plan, which is this red line, there's some deficit reduction there. if you put the tax extensions back in, that deficit reduction almost entirely goes away. in fact, this little blue line down here is biden's plan. he would actually reduce the deficit when you get out to 2033 by more than the republicans under any of these plans. so, ironically, they claim they're the party of fiscal responsibility, but there's not much impact on the deficit when you get done with these tax cuts for the rich. >> biden's plan actually does better than the republicans'. what a shock. same as it ever was. steve rattner, you have delighted children across america, and i will say, because, you know, a million kids across the globe watch him on youtube.

the last rattner chart potpourri that we had, over a million views on youtube. >> wow, he's an influencer. >> you have the kardashians. you have rattner and his charts. >> and makeup videos. >> you know, steve says getting ready to do charts in the morning on tv shouldn't be hard. let me show you the three steps i do to make it a lot easier. extenuate the positives. >> he is the next kylie jenner a lot of people are saying. >> he's already there. >> many people are saying. >> many people are saying. there's steve rattner at the big board. thank you so much, steve. we love you. so great. >> thank you, steve. let's go to another influencer who is, like, if you've ever seen his makeup thing, you know -- i would one day love to show people how i get ready for the show. >> no, please. >> we can show how mika gets ready for the show, which is how a respectful human being would get ready for the show, and then

how i get ready for the show. >> we move quickly. >> both of you move very quickly. >> get in, get out. >> here it is. turn on the faucet, stick your head under the faucet, like, towel, brush, and then get stuff you're supposed to use for, like, your arms, and just go -- >> that's it. >> what is it, about a four-minute turnaround, honey? you can see it. there's a price. >> don't do that. yes, that's the four minutes while i've been sitting there for i don't know how long. that's the cruelty of tv news for women and men. >> both of us. >> okay. >> you look fabulous. absolutely fabulous. so does michael steele. if you've seen his makeup videos on tiktok, you'll know why. >> they've banned them. >> michael, i ran for congress because of the deficit. i did. i know it sounds so extraordinaily boring.

because of run away spending, it's what i was focused on. so i paid close attention to it throughout my adult life. begged republicans, even went on the hill and talked to mark meadows when he was in the freedom caucus. i go, "mark, stop chasing the conspiracy theories. do what we did. focus on where you can save taxpayers money. money the balance." you know, we balanced the budget four years in a row when i was there. four years in a row. it can be done. >> yeah. >> but you look at what these republicans are doing. i mean, the deficits and the debts exploded in record numbers under donald trump. what they're proposing now is just pure nonsense. it's just -- they're posing as small government conservatives, and there hasn't been a small government conservative in a position of authority there, well, in 20 years. it's a joke. >> no, easily 20 years. i mean, you're right, joe, you

stop and think about that moment in which you were in congress. even given the fraught political climate that ultimately led to the impeachment of a president in bill clinton, you still balanced the nation's budget. you paid its bills. now even reformed some long, sacrosanct institutions like welfare and the social safety net. this idea of getting big things done for the country mattered, even in the midst of political back and forth. that is not where we are now. it is performative b.s. in large measure. it is a lot of not even really good smoke and mirrors. it is sort of setting up these political narratives that basically push agendas that have nothing to do with solving the problem. now, republicans are acting like, you know, this is the hill

that is the most important for us, and it's so rooted in who we are as conservatives. >> no, it's not. >> wait a minute, you spent $8 trillion in four years under donald trump. you ballooned the nation's debt in such a manner. oh, by the way, you had to raise the debt ceiling three times in four years. >> yeah. >> now, you've got this sanctimonious approach to joe biden. why? because he's the democrat in power. it's not about solving the problem. it is about creating the narrative that will get you the power back. here's an interesting little thing, joe, do you really think people are that tied into this discussion about the debt and the deficit? >> no, they don't care. >> the way they once were? >> no, that's the thing, michael. it's always been frustrating to me. you know, i've written, like, 18

books. it's the same book, maybe it was three, on deficits, debt, republicans needing to become conservative again, responsibility. you know, you sit there talking about it and they go, oh, we love that. tell us, what was newt gingrich really like? what was bill clinton really like? people don't focus on this stuff, unfortunately, as nerds like i do. donald trump, these people right now that are negotiating, along with donald trump, raise the national debt more in four years than every president from george washington through bill clinton raised the debt. over the course of 200 years, george washington to george w. bush's administration, they raised the debt more in four years. these republicans who are now being self-rye chougs about it, it is maddening. michael steele, as always, thank you so much. go to michael steele's tiktok

page. you can see how you, too, can get your makeup looking fresh and clean in less than five minutes. let's bring into the conversation msnbc contributor mike barnicle, who was in that harrowing subaru race with me last night for eight hours. >> gosh, stop. >> special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. katty, while willie geist puts up the paper of record for the -- for "morning joe," let me just say, katty, it almost happened again. you almost lost two good ones last night. >> oh, my god. >> it was tension city, as joe kennedy said as he was swimming among the sharks off the cape. tension city. almost catastrophic. >> near, i think. >> a near catastrophic two-hour chase in new york city. so sayeth a couple people.

let's get the pol poll up. >> this is rehearsal. >> katty kay, the paper of record in "the new york post" talks about the "duke and duchess of hazard." oh, my, what will they say back home? >> i was rather happy i managed to get on at 7:00 because it gave me a line. i was hoping to avoid this conversation. >> no, never. >> which you covered very thoroughly at 6:00. not sure there's much to say. have we just left our empathy at the door in the studio of "morning joe" this morning? >> exactly. >> maybe they got some of the facts wrong. yes, they put themselves out there. they do all of these things. they put themselves in the public eye. but this guy's mother was killed in a paparazzi chase. >> yes. >> i think we can have a moment of empathy for somebody who was caught in a situation which clearly triggers very bad memories for him. >> we pointed that out earlier. >> we did. >> that's what i will say. >> a little bit of mockery on

the side. >> no, no. i was talking about mike barnicle and i and the subaru chase. >> okay. >> it was tension city, man. it was tension city. >> uh-huh, okay. >> but, no, listen, we're very empathetic here. >> uh-huh. >> i'm glad. >> and validating. >> yes. >> are we not? >> just presenting all sides. whereas, the new york city police department said it was a little chaotic, no 911 calls. we're presenting the facts. we'll have the mayor here. >> and the cabdriver who said, well, they followed as a respectable distance. it was okay. i don't know. anyway, barnicle and i, happened to us last night. four hours. >> it has nothing to do with the sussexes. >> this is all about us. >> i mean, by the way, the subaru is parked outside on the sidewalk on 49th. >> smoking. >> great. >> the tires are smoking.

barnicle was up on two wheels most of the night. >> it can handle a curve. >> tell me you weren't impressed. going across the 59th street bridge, we reprised the "godfather" scene, going to the restaurant in the bronx. i flipped the car across the median strip and head td other way and lost the paparazzi on the 59th street bridge. >> yeah. >> joe, just like in the movie, tapped me on the shoulder and said, "nice job, mike." >> comes with the territory with mike barnicle. >> he said, "watch this," and it was great. >> that completes our coverage. >> katty slapped us down. >> as she should have. >> saying we're not being empathetic. >> i'm glad everybody is okay. >> i think we need to have a little moment of understanding there. >> sure. >> yeah, they probably got the facts wrong and exaggerated, but, you know, they were probably chased by paparazzi, and that's not much fun. and was it two hours, a two-hour pursuit or chase?

i don't know. anyway, we could have a moment of grace. we're all about grace, right, joe, on "morning joe." there we go. >> there it is. >> do you know, if you take "morning joe," do you know what word you can spell out of that? >> grace. >> grace. >> right in there. >> hard to find. >> that's why we call it "morning joe." >> let's turn to the news. >> does anybody play wordle? >> yeah. >> i love the wordle. >> great fun. >> i love it. >> we need a "g" in there. >> is joe okay? >> you play wordle l? >> i love it. >> great. >> could be 30 seconds, could be 15 minutes, whatever day you're having. it's a nice, just a little departure. >> what is the alphabet or whatever, it's like three-dimensional chess. whatever i play three-dimensional chess, i start going after the pieces. it's tough. >> spelling bee maybe? >> spelling bee i like.

wordle is too hard for me. >> oh, no. let's turn to the news. >> start with a -- >> yes. >> if you start with a d-u, you get all the vowels except for "o." >> my mother says audio. >> i heard to start with that from bill gates be. >> all right. >> we have new polling that shows president joe biden would defeat donald trump in a 2024 matchup by a wider margin than he did in 2020. in the latest wpa intelligence survey shared with the "new york post," biden holds a seven-point lead over trump among registered voters. 47% to 40%. by comparison, biden beat trump by 4.5 percentage points in the 2020 popular vote. the glaring number, besides the top line, mike barnicle, is independents, where joe biden beats donald trump by 14 points. donald trump has a 21% approval

rating, 21% approval among the independent voters who decide these elections. >> then there will be another poll the end of this week or next week that will show something in reverse. >> yeah. >> show the race tightening up. we have difficulty, not us here, but i think the country who follows -- people who follow these things have difficulty in realizing that it's only the third week in may. third week in may. the impact of a poll at this point, jennifer, i would think would be practically zero. it is not near the impact president biden might have in tokyo and might have when he comes back from tokyo, getting the debt ceiling issue taken care of. >> right, nothing -- well, what really happens in the last part of the month. >> as a former republican, i'm curious, why does it work that way? if there is a negative poll against joe biden, the entire media world melts down. the entire democratic party melts down.

people, like, contributors to joe biden melt down. everybody melts down. he's at 36%, 38%. yeah, they just collapse. we're going to lose. it's the end of the world. when joe biden is at 50% in an "economist" poll a week later, when he is beating donald trump by seven, according to the paper of record for "morning joe," "new york post," nobody cares. it's just a poll. >> am i going to commit some truth here? >> commit some truth. >> in my experience, the press, the mainstream media, are tougher on democrats when it comes to how they are performing than they are on republicans. when democrats are not doing as well, they like to highlight that. i think it's partly about count ering a sense that the mainstream media is on the side of the democrats. >> biased, yeah.

>> i experienced it with the clinton administration, obama administration, biden, they go harder on democrats when they are not performing well than they are with republicans. then i think with democrats, they're sort of built this way. >> whiners. >> they fret. thank you, democrats, it is why the republic is still standing. the fretting is part of the whole package, which means people worry, they take policies seriously. the good part of the democrats. the downside is the constant, you know, like, it can drive you out of the business, but the constant whining, fretting and doubting. >> the constant whining for democrats is not a bug, it's a feature? >> exactly. >> elise, that's -- >> it is always -- >> that's not how we used to do things. >> it is always hilarious, though, to hear democrat administrations talk about how hard the press is on them. >> yeah. >> having worked in the george w. bush administration.

>> that's the thing, someone is complaining about the press, and you're like, oh, man, you have no idea. you have no idea. but that's kind of -- what you point out, though, i think is important, just in terms of voter perception of media and how people process their media. >> let's say this, too. i think one of the reasons why republicans may be better at keeping their heads down in the white house and just plowing forward regardless of what the press says, and i go back thinking about ronald reagan, who got slaughtered all the time, right, is they're used to it from the beginning. >> yup. >> i've only seen one campaign in my entire adult life where a candidate got more of the benefit of the doubt, a republican over a democrat. in 2000 for whatever reason, maybe the washington press couldn't stand al gore, but bush got a lot of breaks in 2000. i was like, wow, they're not going to cover the fact that he

can't speak in complete sentences? okay, that's fine. it was -- but bush got one break after another. because i follow it closely. looking at it, thinking about, like you, how bias the media has always been against republicans. but you're right, like, when people in the obama administration, jen, would whine about the media, i would go, oh, my god. of all the bias i've ever seen in my life against republicans, and it's been heinous against republicans, the worst bias i ever saw in my life was against hillary clinton when she was running against barack obama, literally this network, whatever state went for hillary, "tonight, kentucky proves it is a racist collection of, you know, this, that and the other."

inbred, you know, blah, blah, blah. literally every state hillary won, it was like, the ghost of jefferson davis rises above the confederate battlefield somewhere south of richmond, as hillary clinton wins. >> joe, stop. >> oh, come on, everybody here knows it. >> yes. >> it was the grossest thing i've ever seen in my life. >> yes. so fortunately for me in my experience, i was not part of the obama 2008 campaign. i did not experience that, what helped him win the primary. i came to work in the white house, which is when you come back to ground zero. >> to pick up on elise's point, then they're shocked because they get into the white house and the press actually starts acting like the press. >> right. what republicans are good at, that elise pointed out, or maybe it was you, joe, that they don't

chase good -- expect the media to not be good and accept that. democrats are constantly chasing, like, why aren't we getting better headlines? why won't "the times" cover us more fairly and give us credit for what we do and not pursue false equivalency? republicans just accept, that's the way it is. i'm not going to let it bother me. i'm going to plow through. democrats get more caught up in it, which brings you back to the hand wringing. it's not just democrats in the white house that worry about press coverage, it's democrats all over the country. >> for joe biden, i would argue that his honeymoon with the press, he had quite a honeymoon until the botched afghanistan withdrawal. boom, it was over. he had a nice run, where people were comparing him to fdr. >> yeah. >> it was good for him. >> things did change for him, mike, after afghanistan. >> no doubt. >> the press rightly turned on him harshly about what he did in

afghanistan. >> the republicans, in an odd way, know how to handle the media better than the democrats do. they immediately -- it's elite media. people nod their heads and say, that's right. most people have no frame of reference for the media, especially print media today. >> yeah. >> they go along with it. the interesting thing to me about the coverage of biden lately in polls, you have the poll numbers a couple weeks ago which showed he might as well not run for anything ever again. he's in terrible shape. he's going to lose. >> yeah. >> that feeds into the, he is too old, too frail, followup stories. go find me a story about an 81-year-old man, fully briefed with knowledge and facts about everything global. getting on a plane, flying to tokyo, getting off the plane, presiding over a series of meetings, crisp with the facts and everything like that, the direction of the country in the

pacific region, everything like that. find me a story about how he does that. joe and i were up until 7:30 last night, which was midnight to us. i was collapsing this morning. i don't know about you. i had to drive, also. >> you know, it is interesting, and i've said this before, and i'll say it again, katty. the thing about biden is he gets exhausted. when he is exhausted, he is not good in the media. there needs to be that consideration. but i've talked to foreign leaders a good bit over the last six months. talked to people close to them who say that in the meetings with biden, and i'll talk specifically, i didn't hear this directly from president macron, but heard it from people all around him, they were actually very surprised. they were thinking he is going to be slow, and when the doors closed, no cameras were on, they said, we were shocked.

brought up five issues. macron was very tough, pushing their position very hard. we were very surprised how tough biden was. he was on top of the issues. no aides were whispering in his ear. he had command of the issues. in my one-on-one times with him, as well, i've been very surprised. i've said this before. i wrote an op-ed one time, again going after him on ukraine, not thinking he was being aggressive enough. next time i talked to him, man, he remembered it. actually, unlike most politicians who call up and whine, he was like, "let me tell you why you were wrong." he gave me five or six really good points that i actually thought were actually more inciteful than most of the things i hear from whining politicians. >> yeah. because we believe in dichotomies, two things can be true at once. i had a lunch with a senator. i heard the same thing about joe

biden when it comes to the fact of any major -- particularly the foreign issues they deal with together, this person. the president is absolutely on top of the facts and is cogent and understands it. they also felt he was probably too old to run for a second term in office, and you can't ignore all of the polls around the country that say this is a concern not just for republicans, of course, but for many democrats, as well. is there -- and i know i've spoken to people in the white house who are frustrated by this. warren buffett is called an oracle, and he is the same age as joe biden. i think joe biden is clearly mentally fit and on top of everything. he has an arthritic shuffle that makes him look, perhaps, older, unfairly, than the four years he has on top of donald trump. there is a presentation issue. he gets tired, and they're trying to manage that by boosting kamala harris' ratings so she can take some of the

lifting on what is going to be a heavy election campaign. trying to pretend or get frustrated with the american voters for saying, well, you shouldn't be concerned about this, is not a strategy that is going to help them. they have to think, how do we run an election campaign with somebody who is 80, who has some physical impairments or presents as having some physical impairments and who does get tired, in a way that puts him at his best. >> yup. >> i just think they have to deal with that and not try to just get cross with the media for raising it. because it's an issue, and it's an issue in reality and because voters think it's an issue. >> they certainly do. we were actually, mika, talking about this. mike and i were talking about this as we were flying across the -- was it the -- well, he broke his foot. people say, he shuffles. why does he walk that way? why doesn't he stride more? we forget. i think it was during the

transition, he got tangled up with a dog, fell down, broke his foot, too stubborn to wear shoes that would make it easier for him to walk through that and have it heal up. >> i thought you meant mike broke his foot in the car chase last night. >> no, no. >> we haven't checked yet. we're going to get full body scans afterwards. >> i never got out of the car until i got joe back safely. >> exactly, thank you. he's like kevin costner in "the bodyguard." i'm about to start crying. it'll be hard leaving him at the airport. mika, the age issue, it's an issue, but you know what? i will say this, for the biden administration, it's more of a presentation issue because he is cogent. he is on top of the issues. how do they present him? this guy is going to be on a long trip. he's going to come back. you know what? i probably wouldn't sit him down

in a one-on-one interview, like the first second he's back. it's how you present. the obama administration really was the first that said, you know what, we're going to do what we want to do. we're not going to listen to the press. >> yeah. >> you know what? sure, he doesn't have a lot of sit-down one-on-one interviews. we're going to have him sit down and be interviewed with a youtube star that takes a bath in fruit loops. he did that. you're like, okay, well, the president and the white house has the power to do whatever they want to do. that's what this white house has to figure out. i'd stay away from the woman who takes a bath in fruit loops, but there have to be other ways forward. >> that and also, i mean, president biden keeps up a brutal schedule. there is no question that there a tremendous difference, and this is understating it incredibly, between the amount of work that he puts in in a day compared to former president trump and his executive time. >> right. >> biden and dr. jill biden, they are very giving of

themselves. they show up at everything. they give their time. i mean, it's part of his kindness, it's part of his political instincts, and that's going to be something that they really want to look at as the campaign heats up and the schedule gets even more brutal, if that's possible. but anyone looking at joe biden and seeing what he does in a day, i mean, i know you would be exhausted if you had his schedule and probably would take days off. i would. >> exactly. by the way, i'm taking a month off starting next week. >> i think you're taking tomorrow off, actually. >> i had a rough night last night. >> okay. as for the republicans, two top republicans in the florida state legislature are endorsing ron desantis for president, even before he officially announces his bid for the white house. during an event yesterday, the state's house speaker and senate president applauded the governor's legislative priorities, think about that,

saying he's the leader the country needs. these public endorsements are expected to serve as the starting point for a wave of support from rank and file republicans in florida. former president trump, however, has already secured the endorsement of ten florida members of congress. joining us now, national political correspondent for "time," molly ball, who has a new piece published just moments ago on, quote, the desantis project. you write, in part, this, from school board meetings to the walt disney corp, the shelves of elementary libraries and face masks, it's a florida governor. any of these might represent a signature achievement. for desantis, they're the latest line items in an agenda he calls the florida blueprint. by operationalizing the culture war into a set of concrete

policies, desantis has transformed the nation's third most populous state. what was once america's paradigmatic swing state now pulsates bright red. for the first time in modern history, people in florida seem to like the steady hand, even if it is an iron fist. i'm just, molly, i'd love to hear more about that. because what plays into this are not just the culture war issues and the school bans, but a six-week abortion ban. i mean, even in florida, is that what the constituents are saying they want? >> well, we'll see. i think, you know, the question is going to be, as desantis prepares to run for president, does that play, first and foremost, with a national republican audience? he's someone who really believes you really run one election at a

time, if you look at how he has won his elections in the past. you have to win that primary to get to that general election. you already see him preparing to run to trump's right on the issue of abortion. then, obviously, it is a question that many have raised, is that a stance that will play in a general election with the american public? much less with floridians. you know, prior to this ban being passed, florida was the most pro choice red state in the country in terms of just the popular sentiment. so there is a feeling that he may have gone too far, and you do hear from even some republicans in florida who otherwise support him, that they wonder if this is going too far. i think the larger context is the way he has pushed this conservative agenda in florida. as part of this in-depth profile of desantis, i wanted to give people an understanding of how he has, as you said, transformed florida and really made it, a

lot of people say, a different place. it even feels different just being there. you know, no matter where he goes in his presidential campaign, he's already had, i think, a measurable effect on the national political debate. he's changed if face of america with how he pushed this sweeping agenda in florida and the effectiveness he's had there. >> for all the criticism governor desantis received nationally, including here, he's around 60% in the state of florida, up, not down. he won by 19 points in the race by charlie crist. he's still popular in florida, is the point. last week, we got a little look at the theory of his race against donald trump. which is, i win. if you want to keep losing is go with donald trump, is what he's implying. you want to win? go with me. what else will he bring in terms of criticism and attacks on donald trump, a man who donald trump says to whom he owes his

political career because of his endorsement way back when. >> that's right. that is really the million dollar question for really anyone who wants to get in this race against trump. i think for desantis, particularly, florida has had republican governors for 25 years. it took desantis to push the state to the right in this way. you see him preparing to make an argument that he is both more effective than trump, more focused on policy, more focused on particularly the sort of populist, new right culture war agenda, not the traditional sort of, you know, small government republicanism of the past. also, as you mentioned, he is more electable. he took this, what was once considered the typical swing state in america, and now it is a bright red state. it's a state where he is popular, where, you know, the democrats keep predicting this backlash that has yet to materialize, at least when it comes to voter turnout and voter

reaction. so this is the theory that he is going to present to republican voters. the question is, will his criticism of trump remain sort of this implicit i win and he doesn't, or will he really go on the attack and take it to trump? because no one has made that work yet. that is the catch 22 that all republicans have been in since 2015, is that there doesn't seem to be a way to separate donald trump from the republican base. that'll be the question for his campaign as he repai prepares t announce. >> national political correspondent for "time," molly ball. thank you for coming on the show. great to have you on. >> thanks for having me. ahead on "morning joe," a new test of ukraine's air defenses overnight as russia fires 30 cruise missiles aimed at different parts of the country. we'll have the latest on the war. plus, author will leitch is out with a new thriller. he joins us with that, as well

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(woman) yes! (vo) close in a matter of days. start with an all cash offer at opendoor dot com alonso drives one deep left field, really going back. it's outta here, and the mets win it! >> walk-off. >> come on, baby! >> walk-off at citi field last night. pete alonso, three-run home run in the tenth inning. >> let's go, mets. >> walking the mets off to an 8-7 victory over the tampa bay rays. >> boom. >> we needed help with the rays over in the a.l. east. will leitch joins us, writer for mlb.com, founder of deadspin, out with his thriller, "the time has come." good to see you, man. >> of course. >> we'll talk about his book. >> in a minute. >> congratulations to the mets for getting five wins in the standings. the homer last light, congratulations. you've offset the last two weeks. >> struggling. i won't bring up the cardinals.

>> we're not doing great either. >> unless you want to go there. >> no, thank you. >> the rays lost last night. what they're doing in baseball is just stunning. that was a rare loss for them. 32-12. kind of running away with the a.l. east, which is a great division already. how are they doing it? why are they so good? >> the thing about them, it's systemic, right? they build. they didn't get a free agent in the offseason or suddenly have a guy pop up. franco is a superstar for them. they're great everywhere, and that's the dirty secret of baseball. we get the idea of, oh, we have to have the big stars, the stacked rotation. if you are really good everywhere, not great at everything, but really good everywhere, you build up, the next thing, you're in the top of the division where everyone is spending eight times what you are. >> the orioles are 3.5 back. >> less of a payroll. >> doing what the rays are doing. >> i mean, the thing is, again, they do prove, tampa proves, orioles are proving right now,

you don't need to spend a ton of money. the mets won last night. for mika's daughter, thank god, because she lives and breathes the mets as much as we all live and breathe the red sox, except when they're playing the cardinals. >> of course. >> of late. >> yes. >> the thing that really irritates me every time i watch tampa is what an extraordinary organization they are, what an extraordinary coach they have. i mean, the players are in it day in and day out. they're just breaking records left and right. and they have 14 people in the stands. >> yeah. >> listen, i hate to pick on tampa here, but i think we've given tampa fas enough of a chance to support them. they're not going to support them. when is major league baseball going to let them go to nashville, montreal or somewhere that will support this team the way they need to be supported? >> i think there is an issue with where the stadium specifically is in the area, but

i don't think there's any question, they've had a really good team for a really long time and it hasn't paid off. >> when i'm in maine, i drive four hours to see the red sox. >> i hear you. >> i'm sick and tired of hearing the whining. >> i understand. >> the wrong side of the bed. really? >> fair, fair. >> four hours in an f-150 to go see the red sox play games. >> fair. >> i don't want the whining from them. >> of course. i drove three hours to see cardinal games growing up, as well. i totally understand that. i think now that the a's situation is starting to get closer to being resolved, it is not entirely resolved, but they've been waiting for that situation to be resolved before they can get to tampa and talk about expansion. if you want a team in nashville, it'd not shock me. >> i don't want a team in tampa, mike. i want the best organization in baseball, top to bottom, to have fans, to have the fans they deserve. >> well, you have to move them to orlando. florida can only -- i would submit florida can only maintain one club, one major league team. >> barely.

>> miami, tampa bay, barely. move them to orlando, see if it works there. oddly enough, i would submit that the tampa bay fans contribute to tampa bay teams' continued greatness. the front office doesn't have to worry about the outrage that will happen if they move a guy or if they don't sign a guy. >> i think that's right. >> just like boston. >> every time they -- when the yankees or red sox office coughs, everyone freaks out. tampa can do things nobody notices or cares about, and it turns out to be smart, versus all of us yelling at them. >> let's bring in jonathan lemire. speaking of somebody who says, 162 games, nothing to worry about, you and lupica, just models of the tampa fans. >> even keel, always. that's me, don't live and lie on every single pitch. will, let's talk about the teams that have disappointed so far this year, including teams that spent a ton of money. the mets.

mets fans everywhere deeply distraught, how their season started. also, the padres which has a lineup of superstars added to them this offseason, yet, they're several games under .500. swept again by the dodgers. >> frustrating, too, because the padres are a team you want to see do well. that's a team that's doing it the right way. they're the only team in -- >> well, not the next three games. >> of course, not when they're playing the red sox. generally speaking, that's what you want from baseball. you want a, theoretically, smaller market team, the only team in its market, spending big. they have an owner that's tried to get guys. it hasn't worked out. i go on san diego padres radio and talk to tony gwynn jr., and i talk to them every week. they're down right now. i try to reassure them, there's a lot of time left. the padres have good players. i would be more worried about, say the mets or my cardinals. you want a team like that to win. we say spend money, don't just have it be the mets or the red

sox. have a team like a padres spend money. they've done that. i feel it's a team we should probably try to get behind. >> by the way, we could talk about every team in the league, but the pirates, give them a shoutout. a game out of first place. having a great season, too. let's talk about "the time has come," your next novel. "lucky" was excellent, entertaining, deep. this is that, too. also set in athens, georgia, where you live. it has echoes and themes of the stuff we talk about on this show a lot. >> it's set in athens, georgia, home of the two-time defending college football champions. >> bulldogs. >> this is inspired by kind of the robert altman shortcuts or "magnolia," where you follow six characters throughout the course of the day, and a culminating event happens. tina has been alone during the pandemic, kind of going down some online rabbit holes and believes something terrible is happening at this pharmacy. she has to stop it. she announces it at the beginning of the book, "i'm

going to stab what's happening." we follow the six people throughout the book and where they all land at the end. hopefullysuspenseful, and hopefully a fun, quick read. >> there's some january 6th echoes in there. >> without question. >> pizzagate, a lot of the qanon stuff. >> she truly kind of believes. she's had a lot of tragedy, has lost her way, really believes. she wants to help in a way that is unproductive and potentially destructive. >> this is a great turn for you. we've known you as a sports guy. you know everything there is to know about sports. to see the successful move, how did this come about for you, to sit down and start writing novels? >> i was inspired to start writing with "how lucky," by my son's best friend, had spinal muscular atrophy, which is the disease the lead character had. at a certain level, and we know this as journalists, it is kind of fun to have the people you write about do whatever you want them to, rather than the things they -- you have to stick to the facts. it's so exhausting. it's fun to be like, you're going to go where i want you to

go. i'm going to make you go where i have. ultimately, it's funny. the end of the day, people believe stuff in real life that they won't believe in fiction. in real life, we see insane things all the time. in fiction, they're like, they would not use that pin. i don't believe this book anymore. you have to be more hard core to keep everything straight in a fiction book. >> congratulations. this one is sure to be another hit. the new book is titled "the time has come." will leitch, come back soon. >> thanks, guys. >> thanks for being here. >> go cards. >> go illini. >> turning things around. we're getting too deep now. coming up, update on the war in ukraine as russia ramps up its aerial attacks over kyiv. plus, we'll be joined by the governor of puerto rico. he is in new york city to highlight the island's economic recovery. that's ahead on "morning joe." whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652. they customize your car insurance,

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puerto rico. great to have you with us this morning. >> thank you so much for inviting me. >> we have watched -- i told you i have a great affinity for puerto rico. married there 20 years ago. about the aftermath of hurricane maria and the efforts that were made to help rebuild. where is the country right now in that process and what are some of the financial green chutes that you are seeing in. >> the reconstruction is in full swing. we are no different than other areas in the states hit by major natural disasters like here

sandy. harvey in texas, katrina in new orleans. now you are seeing permanent construction projects happening all over the island. there are 2,600 construction projects done funded by fema. at the same time, hud is funding lots of things in puerto rico through its programs. so that's -- this is very important because we are building puerto rico back better. will be more resilient. congress authorized to rebuild better. that's part of what's happening. apart from that, the manufacturing sector is solid, resilient. performing well. tourism is booming for different reasons.

it is like, you know, u.s. mainland citizens in the u.s. discovered us for the wrong reasons. the hurricanes, what have you. now they are coming and in droves and coming year around. it is not a seasonal winter destination. record numbers. better than the pandemic. so that's fueling the economy, as well. we are exporting services. in puerto rico another fact that's perhaps not known, we have top, top world class engineers. for example, the parts for the mainland. 12 of the top 20 bio sciences companies in the world do business in puerto rico. close to half the economy is manufacturing. 12 of the top 20 medical devices companies in the world do business there. so we are promoting the island

for economic purposes, tourism and it is working. i'm very glad. it will take some years to have robust, sustainable economic development. the biden administration has been a blessing. they removed obstacles, bureaucratic obstacles we had and now something called the economic dialogue led by deputy secretary of commerce graves making sure that again our development is sustainable. and then secretary granholm from the department of energy is helping us do the energy transformation we need to do to have a better grid and to turn to renewables. >> recovery. coming out of bankruptcy. talk about long term stability. what else does the island need?

the tack breaks for pharmaceutical companies? what else sets puerto rico on the path for long term? >> we do. we are treated as a foreign jurisdiction for tax purposes, particularly for income generated on the island by multinational companies but they do have to pay taxes federally as required by congress recently through the recent legislation. now that's an incentive. we need to work on the workforce. one thing we are doing is for example you see companies demanding ever more so now is digital skills. we launched the tech force initiative to actually add 50,000 digital jobs to our economy in the next 10 years through short careers, certifications, associate degrees opposed to bachelors

degrees because sometimes you don't need a bachelor degree to have the skills needed so that's something we are doing. another thing we are doing is using federal funds through the bipartisan infrastructure act to have high-speed internet island wide within five years. we are thinking forward. we don't simply want to rebuild the infrastructure which is key. like we have about $50 billion yet to spend to improve the roads. >> power grid. >> transportation. power grid which is very important for us. that is going to make a better puerto rico for the future. >> truly is one of the most beautiful places in the world. it is easy to get to. direct flights from wherever you live. >> it is authentic, real.

you can experience puerto rico. >> yes. governor, thank you for stopping through on the visit to new york. >> congratulations. so happy things are turning around there. >> absolutely. next, new evidence in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. plus new jersey governor and new york city mayor are standing by. they join the table when "morning joe" comes right back.

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we had a productive meeting yesterday and with all four leaders in the congress. it was civil and respectful and everyone came to the meeting i think in good faith. to be clear, this negotiation is about the outlines of what the budget will look like. not whether or not we will pay the debts. the leaders have all agreed we will not default. every leader has said that. >> the only thing i'm more

optimistic about, he finally agreed to something that every other time we have been able to solve a problem worked. the structure of negotiations. now we are along such a short timeline it makes it almost harder. >> money that's been spent. the comments on the debt ceiling negotiations. we'll have more on the budget talks and the president's trip overseas ahead. joe, you and willie have two special guests in new york. who are they? >> so special. we have had democratic governor of new jersey murphy and democratic mayor of new york city adams. i got to ask you. looks like pretty chaotic last night. >> come on now. >> according to the taxi driver the royals -- >> joe? >> mika!

the cab driver said they were -- >> joe. >> a safe distance apart. did anybody get arrested for this chaotic two-hour chase through new york city that looked like the beginning of those dick tracy cartoons with cars in and out of the place? >> no arrests. we are looking about it. >> any police commissioner say it was almost tragic or almost this or that? >> taking a close examination of the whole incident. >> you don't want to say! the initial take from the police officers, did any of them tell you or your people, this was really dangerous? almost catastrophic. >> i did not feel this level of cross-examination since i made an arrest as a cop. >> exactly. so -- but you probably know that the cross-examination continued. so did any police officers or any -- >> my lord --

>> say it is almost a catastrophic scene? >> i'm looking into the process of what happened. >> i don't think he's going to answer. >> checking the cameras. checking the cameras. >> exactly. exactly. willie, you know, these guys together. they're trying to do something that i want and that is bring a world cup match to the tri-state area. >> let's set this up. less than one hour in new york city the brandon logo of new york-nnlg will be unveiled. held in times square. just 9:00. just a couple years the 2026 world cup will become the largest sporting event ever held in three countries, 16 cities will host matches. 48 teams compete to reach the final. the final could be held here as new york and new jersey's venue

is reportedly being considered. could be in your state, governor murphy. met life stadium. >> perhaps. >> a couple other cities reported to be in contention for the final. amazing to have it in new york city. what is your case? >> america is the world stage and new york city is center stage of the world stage. we have an extraordinary stadium. the region has huge passion for the sport. hosted games in '94. women in '99. each very successfully. we were talking about this yesterday. no matter what package of games we get we'll probably get minimum of eight games so that's eight super bowls in six weeks with huge impact economically. passion for the sport in new york and new jersey. we are hoping.

we are pitching like crazy to get the final. >> what would it mean to have the final here? >> it is good for the region. shows the relationship and coordination with the governor how we are able to put a knowledge together that was attractive enough to bring in a major event. economic boost. the tourism. the energy. and it is just really allows a major event of this proportion to be on the world city. new york city, new jersey. this is the center of america's universe if not globally. >> i understand that like dallas, texas, is a competitor right now. you look at bringing an event that big into a state that has rising gun violence. you look at the open carry laws. it is just -- you know? and again, the number of

homicides there have gone up. look at the crime rate in new york. it is not what people say per capita. but it does seem like do you want to have massive event with people carrying ar-15s around? >> we are not saying anything new here. an issue in front of mind -- >> greg abbott encourages this. >> he was embarrassed another state had more gun owners than texas and tweeted out come on, let's catch up. what's on the mind of american families? violence. gun violence specifically. the idea of a global event in a city like dallas and there are parts of dallas that are terrific. >> a lot of dallas. >> okay. i haven't been to dallas a lot. >> go ahead. >> any way -- >> great city. >> carrying a shotgun, a rifle

into a diner. that's a problem. the other aspect of the final game here, the number two at the new york city police department, very good friend of mine, a great cop. he said there were at least 85 or 100 languages spoken within the new york police department. the idea of a global event in a tri-state area where you have that many people, not just cops but residents that speak several languages, it is a mag net for a global event to be held here. >> really, as the expansion of soccer in america, it is a new frontier. you see the increasing diversity of languages and the game is

enjoyed in the home countries and now in the adopted country of america. you are going to see energy that people are looking for. i think it is also important that you pointed out. public safety is a prerequisite to prosperity. the city will attract the major events to take place. we brought down shootings in the city by double digits. decreased homicides. the seven majors in the right direction. being safe. the governor is doing the same in new jersey. >> i also think i'll put it in the glass half full context in terms of not just guns but values. a thing we pitched hard is new york city and new jersey on the right side of values. guns is a value. embracing the world. thinking about the environment. how we think about equal rights

for all members of the societies. >> willie, just talking about crime in new york city. obviously you look. new york city traditionally has been the safest big city in america. crime gone up everywhere in red states, in blue states. this is an ap article from a couple weeks ago. major crimes are all down. murders declined. rapes, robberies, burglaries and grand larcenies all down. so this republican claim that these guys come up here to try to distract from the crimes that donald trump's committed or going to be convicted of, indicted for, crimes are down. major crimes are down in new york city. you can't say that about some

cities in red states. >> just the opposite. many are trending in the other direction. a lot is attached to just really infatuation with guns. we go after those repeated offenders. the extreme recidivists. we are showing how there's a small number of people committing crimes repeatedly. going after them you see every day new york enjoys the beauty of the city. that was a campaign promise. we'll zero in on public safety. 99% of the jobs lost pre-pandemic is recovered. tourism is increasing. >> it's happening in new jersey, too. i'm completely biassed because i'm a child of new jersey as you

know but good things happening in that state. >> very similar trajectory as eric described in new york city. if world class stadium. 80,000 seats. over 220 boxes. it is a great quality of life in new york and new jersey. >>s when is announcement made? >> we think september. >> we have the games. now we need the finals. >> what about the biggest element? i can't think of another tri-state area in the country with police, security, whatsoever, could conduct a large affair as the world cup. >> yes. >> i can't imagine it occurring in dallas or other city mentioned because -- >> by the way, to the fine people of dallas. we love the city.

i love dallas. it is the leadership statewide that causes the problem. dallas, you are looking good. go ahead, mike. >> i want to add to that public transportation. >> yes. >> we have an ability to move people around. between the two states. >> you know who else loves dallas? katty kay. >> that was a really random segue. >> it really was. >> yeah. >> have you ever been to dallas? >> i have. great rhinestone belts. mayor adams -- >> a lot of guns. >> i will be interviewing the mayor of new orleans. she has a big crime problem in the city. are there lessons to give her from new york and democrats facing high crime rates in the cities as mayors to replicate around the country? >> be true to yourself. there's a small minority who no

matter what we do about protecting the people of the cities yell the loudest. we are not put in place my anti-gun unit. a small number yelled. we took over 9,000 guns off the street. improving public safety there are those that yelled. you cannot allow those that yell the loudest to believe they're the majority. go with the desires of the people. 4 million people on the subway system. increased the ridership. removing those who are dangers to the system. elected for a purpose and a reason. stay true to that mission. and you could accomplish what you want to. >> you opened eyes a couple days ago announcing that almost 50% of the hotel rooms in new york city are occupied by asylum

seekers. migrants who have come here after crossing the border into the country. you are saying the biden administration needs to do more to help you out. we are proud that we are a sanctuary system but the system is overwhelmed. what gives here? >> yeah. when you look at the hotel rooms from 51 to 200 occupancy they can handle the migrants, over 40% of them are handled by migrant and not outside visitors why now people coming to graduation ceremonies they go to the small hotels. it's a worn-out system. 65,000 people are coming to the city. just last week 4, 200 in one week. in one day 900. the numbers are unthinkable.

our goal is to have a strategy at the border and the state and the democrats, we are losing the argument. we have an obligation to stay true to what i believe the party stands for and i think the party needs to get behind how we handle this mission. summer, jeffries and the delegation have gotten the resources but they are not here. >> the democratic party has to get serious like you. you can't have chaos at the border. it is unsustainable. not just for el paso and other cities along the border but new york city. there is nothing humanitarian. like homelessness. nothing humanitarian about

people living over grates. it is savage. it's not humanitarian. there has to be order brought to this system and it starts at the border. >> well said. >> i want to ask governor murphy about access to health care for women especially in light of a court ruling on ban on the abortion drug myth press tone. you said you would consider to provide the drug. while i think a lot of women appreciate where you are going with this because their health care across the country has been dramatically impacted by the sick bans that are rolling back our rights in so many different ways but impacting our health. are there consequences to defying a court ruling? >> i hope it doesn't come to this. but the fact of the matter is i

mentioned yesterday, particularly women from black and brown communities. you look at what north carolina passed and we -- i'm the chair of the dja and helped governor cooper push back on that. i think it is a political storm to see the impact next year but they did things like on medicaid it is a 10-week ban. you have to go from multiple meetings. guess what. you got women working multiple jobs. so women are either health care is impaired or losing lives over this. i'm proud to say that new jersey is a state that protects the reproductive freedoms and a right to abortion for any women in the state and those traveling to new jersey. that hearing in new orleans

yesterday was disgusting. we'll leave all options on the table. >> this is the type of governor he is. you know? there's in absence of common sense governance. yelling is not governing. that's what we saw city council person dropped out of the race good at yelling. this is going to impact people. we need to leave all options open. that is the type of leadership. >> same right back at you. >> jonathan lemire is with us with a question. >> governor murphy, we know that time is ticking towards the debt limit being reached. negotiations continuing. the president trying to monitor from overseas. there's been optimism about a deal. both sides acknowledge they are far apart. if we were to defult what that means for a state level and how

immediately would you feel the impact in new jersey? >> immediately in new jersey and new york city. can't happen. this is playing with fire here. and it just cannot happen. that doesn't mean there shouldn't be responsible discussions, contours of deals around the budget. that seems to be reasonable. i don't know that you can keep going with the 3.5% deficit and the indebtness piling up. that's a discussion to deal with the budget not a retrospective discussion. it would have huge impacts, the bond market, real estate values. my guess is we would tip into some sort of an economic recession. it would cost jobs. i think the list goes on and on and on.

not just in new jersey. new york city and around the country consequences would be dire. >> mr. mayor, mike and i were with reverend al last nigh. just left jordan neland's family and talking about the tragedy of the -- his death. talking about the tragedy of the entire situation. how divided americans will be over this. we don't have that debate right here because it is everywhere as you know. but let's talk about how you've talked about homelessness, quality of life issues. obviously he had a really troubled background. in and out of the court system.

homeless. obviously had serious mental health issues. we need to get people like jordan off the streets and get them to where they can get mental health help. how do we get from where we are now to where people get the treatment and care before tragedy strikes? >> think about how horrific that this man lost his mother through a horrific crime. we should have given him the support he needed. warping signs were there that he wanted help. when last year when i talked about using -- bringing into hospitals for care and wrap around services there was a lot

of pushback. but we need it was the right thing to do. seeing what happens when you walk past people and using the criminal justice system as a solution. that's not a solution. you can't have 50% of the people at reicher's island dealing with mental health issues. that's a broken system. our goal is to look at what we call a law that's in place right now to allow clarity on if we see someone that can't take care of basic needs that they can get the necessary care and evaluation. all of the hearts goes out to the family. my son's name is jordan. that tore me apart when i saw that young man die. but we have to look at the jordans that are still out there. and no one wants to deal with that. we are. i am not going to allow this to continue to happen.

it is my obligation to make sure every new yorker is safe. >> incredibly important. mayor adams, governor murphy, thank you for being here. >> thank you. new polling on a potential presidential rematch between joe biden and donald trump. plus, the growing tension between trump and ron desantis. as the florida governor is expected to launch his campaign for president any day now. you're watching "morning joe." e and allergy relief! two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good!

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biden's got the seven-point lead over trump. according to the new york poll showing. and -- >> come here. >> biden's crushing. absolutely crushing donald trump in this poll. do i think that this is the end

all be all poll? it is in "the new york post." so of course i do. other than that, are we going to talk about this poll now for a month like the one bad joe biden poll? we showed you a poll the other day from "the economist," one of the most respected publications on the planet with joe biden at 50% why do i think he's at 50%? probably not. maybe it's an outlier. guess what. i didn't hear the media talk about that for a week and a half. democrats didn't tell me they had to tear the sheets from the bed. it's all very selective. it is the one poll, the one poll. people are still writing articles like in mayor newspapers saying joe biden approval rating and the world is

coming to the end. "the new york post" has him crushing donald trump. "the economist" at 50%. let's talk about these for a week. seriously. if we talk outliers it is stupid. i almost got the news. concerned about that. swerving around new york. let's talk at the boston celtics. that's what people want. they want to see your pain. they want to see your suffering, irish anguish on the screen. tell us about the boston celticing last nigh. >> good morning to you. this is the celtics. they are extremely talented but

inconsistent. >> can i interrupt? >> i don't care about the nba. does anybody? >> i do. >> go ahead. willie, good morning to you. >> hello. >> yeah. jimmy butler. he is another level. every post season. had a lead at the half and blew it. they lose another home playoff game. doesn't mean the series is over. miami could win. it will be a long series. >> a shame. a real shame. >> red sox won 12-3. >> the greatest team on the planet. let me ask you about -- hold on. the red sox. absolutely crushed seattle. you know? they got swept by the cardinals with a worst season ever. caused panic in boston. everybody needs to take a paper

bag. fill it up with ribs and hot dogs. breathe into the bag. >> it is may. it is only may, people. >> exactly. so let's talk about joe biden. >> oh okay. >> wait. what? >> talked about the poll. i can't do anything. can't talk to a democrat without them just collapsing. >> that one poll. >> he's going to lose. he was at 38% in the polls. talk like that. all of them do. i heard this about biden repeatedly. he is too old to win. he won in 2020. you can't pass bipartisan legislation. passing the bipartisan legislation. goes on and on. too old. we will be crushed in the

midterms. he has a historic midterm. does the state of the union. he looks really good. this keeps going on and on. >> shows up in kyiv. >> a few weeks later. mighty. and then two days later, he is too old. and then the poll a week and a half ago and everybody freaks out about it. the other polls has him crushing donald trump. >> doesn't take questions. putts mccarthy in a box. two meetings. they have walked outside and had to say something akin to we won't default. like that doesn't happen. i was white house communications director for barack obama. i know how frustrating it is when the press wasn't giving you

wins but despite the hand wringing it is working. right? the economy. wanls are growing. inflation goes down. the border without title 42 they feel like the plan is working. the numbers did not end up being as expected as high. g7, does he have to come home early? yes. to deal with republican dysfunction. the polls are still lower than they would like but at least in sort of sector getting the republicans in a box, it is working. democrats will always fret. >> yeah. >> always. >> michael steele, looking inside the poll for the bed wetters that joe is talking about the independent number which is as you know well

decisive in a general election. donald trump's approval rating is 21%. 21%. disapproval is in the 70s. donald trump is doing terribly with them and not getting better. >> it is not. that is where the last few psych cycles have been for republicans. they can't pull the independent voters back to the table. the reasons are myriad. there is abortion. there is gun legislation. there is to what was just said about the economy. people while they may say to joe's point the sky is falling. there's a disaggregation of how people feel about certain things and how they vote.

and i think at the back end of this which is an interesting piece this whole democracy thing which people kind of blew off is still a threat. the narratives of a president now been adjudicated to have sexually offended, abused a woman, these types of narratives do not help with independent voters. yes, there is a desire to get into policy and the talk about what the economy is going to look like. what will happen at the border. et cetera. then you have the other actions being performed by the characters inside the gop and that's around abortion that we see playing out in state legislatures. it is around the crazy

conversations that marjory taylor greene types have having. those voters hear that and going i'm not doing crazy. i can't. and so you have seen that reflected in the numbers. while people want to fixate on joe biden is old or has a bad poll voters to joe's earlier points are falling back to the point that i can't do crazy. there is no red wave. democrats are winning the special elections in florida, the largest cities they shouldn't be winning in. >> jacksonville to wisconsin to kansas democrats have been wildly overperforming even in red areas. >> that's exactly right, joe. >> how much does abortion have to play with that looking at what happens in the states?

i can't imagine that the bans, the stricter laws on a procedure that women need for health isn't impacting the way that republicans vote. i'm sorry. whether they say it or not they understand that women need health care. it is not their business. >> can i put an exclamation point on that? i think the public their tifr and this issue is way off base. people want to fall into the pro-life versus pro-choice camp and the world is moving in this pro-life direction. a lot of pro-life voters do not like what's happening in these state legislatures, do not like what's happening with criminalizing the wombs of women. penalizing those that help them to get the care and attention they need. so if you keep believing that everybody is buying what you are

selling you continue to sell bad stuff and seeing this play out in ways that kansas city becomes a real big example of the problem the party is having on an issue like aboerks. coming up, a push for president biden to raise the debt ceiling without congress. how the 14th argument could reshape the standoff on capitol hill. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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evidence cited in a new report may undercut former president trump's claims that the secret documents he took to mar-a-lago automatically declassified. cnn reports the national archives nomared the former

president it will give jack smith 16 records that show trump and the top advisers had knowledge of the correct declassification process while he was president. in a may 16 letter the acting archivist writes to trump, quote, the 16 records in question all reflect communications involves close president shl advisers, some of them directed to you personally concerning whether, why and how you should declassify certain records. the letter has not been independently verified by nbc news. the letter reportedly goes on to say trump tried to block the special counsel by asserting a claim by constitutionally based privilege but the claim was rejected. stating in a letter the office is prepared to demonstrate with specificity to a court why it is

likely that the 16 records contain evidence that would be important to the grand jury's investigation. joe, this seems like -- i mean, he just constantly says that he -- like blink and the documents are somehow declassified. >> right. >> there is going to be a big problem for the former president if he continues to double down on lies taking documents from where they are supposed to be. >> yeah. no doubt about it. elise, he has said -- donald trump said all i have to do is think about it and they are declassified. they have records of them working with trump saying if you want to declassify these documents this is a proper way to do it. donald trump is trying to assert

privilege. the roberts supreme court will reject every claim crocking to things like this. so it is extraordinarily important coming to intent. >> he has a chance to come clean and yet he still went back and messed around with the documents. tried to still intercept documents. that's not good for him because you look at the way that president biden handle it, the way that vice president pence handled it and dramatically different circumstances. this case to me seems like a risk of legal peril than political peril. i don't think voters care or understand but the legal risk is there. >> they understand about obstruction. they understand about lying to -- more documents?

no. will you sign something that swears you don't? >> yeah. we'll give it back and lying to them. they understand. that's the biggest problem. i think that. the obstruction. the lying and in georgia the real problems moving forward as a candidate. >> a difference between mike pence and joe biden. they alerted the authorities and gave them back. you have obstruction in this case. the fbi had to get a search warrant to get the documents. the trouble that donald trump made for himself. i took what i took. which sounds like a confession to people. >> and said it was wok to show it to whoever he wants to show it to. >> the lawyer quit. >> good chain of events there. the biden re-election team is looking to gain ground with

independent and republican voters in the race for the white house. we'll speak with a president's campaign co-chair and even konopka escobar joins the conversation. "morning joe" is coming right back. from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss.

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the problem for former president trump often can be losing. now there's tension between the former president and the florida governor ron desantis who is expected to enter the 2024 republican primary field in the coming weeks. donald trump is ratcheting up his attacks against his likely opponent. in a series of posts on his social media site yesterday, trump mocked desantis for endorsing two republicans who lost state elections on tuesday. ron's magic is gone, he wrote

after the desantis-backed candidate finished third to the trump-backed candidate in kentucky's republican primary for governor. trump also bemoaned republicans' loss in jacksonville, florida, the mayoral election on tuesday, claiming, quote, if they would have asked me to endorse, the candidate would have won easily. >> you don't understand. the candidate he endorsed in the jacksonville race is kind of weird, not even from jacksonville. dr. oz, i mean, if you're going to win, you got to stop endorsing dr. oz. he's not even from jacksonville. i guess he voted for erdogan this past week. i'm not sure who he voted for over there. come on, did he really think the good people of jacksonville were going to vote for a tv doctor? >> there's so much winning. i don't know how republicans stand it. >> they've got to be exhausted.

>> you know, if i knew that to keep my job at the rnc, all i had to do was lose, i could have signed up for that. look, this is an interesting tension inside the gop. i just don't know if the base gives a damn about it. it's a very weird signal out there. i think there's a longer play here, joe. i'd love to get your thoughts on how i'm looking at this, because i don't think the base has -- they want power and control. the base thinks they can get power and control in other ways. so these big races everyone focuses on and says, well, this is a turning point, a lot of the rank and file folks are like, okay, if you say so.

because i look around and see where they're winning school board elections and at local levels where they're taking over infrastructure and control of electoral processes. there's a longer play here, a longer strategy that sets up a much more difficult future for the country, i think, in many respects. these sort of losses in the horse races that are called by the mainstream media, for example, or "morning joe," they look at that and go, okay, you focus on that. there's a longer term. i think the press oftentimes fixates on ron desantis and donald trump, and the base is like, oh, we're with trump, so y'all keep on talking about this going someplace else. i just think you lose sight of the longer play, i really do.

>> what i obsess over is five, six states that are going to determine whether we have a fascist in the white house or somebody who supports american democracy. so i keep talking about the six or seven states, because on election night those states are going to matter. in those states there are going to be counties, a handful of counties that are going to determine who wins that race. the school board race in omaha -- well, omaha actually matters for the one electoral vote. but idaho, i'm not really focused on that as much as -- i hate to keep saying it -- the suburbs of atlanta, the suburbs of philly, the suburbs of detroit, the suburbs of milwaukee, maricopa county.

and when i look at independent voters breaking away from either candidate, right now they're breaking away from donald trump and when i look at actions that make them break away, that suddenly makes a big difference. because i can tell you when i won in '94, it was a huge shock that we took over the house of representatives. but if you had looked where republicans had won in '93, you would have said, oh, well, i can connect those dots and see. you look at the huge democratic wins in '18, you know, i remember reading stories in '17 about democrats winning delaware county, pennsylvania, county commissioner races for the first time in a hundred years. well, that's something, democrats winning in an incredible turnaround in the virginia assembly.

nobody believed it. it was a shock in 2017. i kept seeing those women standing in line when it was raining. i said, oh well, so that's significant. i could name five other races in 2017 that trump republicans lost. connect the dots. it does matter. i believe it does show you what's going to be happening the next year. >> i looked at the turnout incomes for colorado springs and jacksonville yesterday. you thought these were unusual, a democrat won in colorado springs and jacksonville. it was like a big turnout in both cities higher than the previous ones. people are paying attention. i have to think that the six-week abortion ban that just passed florida and what that did to the jacksonville mayor's race, maybe there's polls that show ron desantis beating joe

biden, i don't know, but not when people understand that he's for a six-week abortion ban. coming up, we'll speak with a florida teacher who says she is being investigated by state officials after showing students a disney movie that happens to feature a character who is biracial and gay. biracial and gay oh booking.com, ♪ i'm going to somewhere, anywhere. ♪ ♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. ♪ are you getting the sleep you deserve? well, this is your wakeup call to sleep on a casper mattress

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i'm confident that we'll get the agreement on the budget and america will not default. every leader in the room understands the consequences if we fail to pay our bills. we're going to come together, because there's no alternative. we have to do the right thing for the country. we have to move on. >> president biden's comments on the debt ceiling negotiations just moments before he took off for the g7 summit in japan. but there are some democrats who are working on a backup plan if

the talks stall. it involves the 14th amendment. we'll talk about that. one of those lawmakers is democratic senator tina smith of minnesota. she will join us in just a moment. also ahead, a story that is making national headlines. a teacher in florida is serving a suspension after she showed a disney movie in her class that included a gay character. that educator will be our guest later this hour. plus, award-winning author, host and executive producer pad ma lax my joins us. to the fourth hour of "morning joe," 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east. we start with president biden this hour. >> president biden is in japan this morning for the g7 summit. president biden greeted by japanese officials as well as

former white house chief of staff and former mayor of chicago rahm emanuel, who now serves as the united states' ambassador to japan. the g7 summit officially begins tomorrow. president biden and world leaders expected to discuss new sanctions against russia for its invasion of ukraine. overnight russia stepped up its attacks with explosions rocking cities across ukrainian. molly hunter has more from kyiv. >> reporter: overnight, russia firing at least 30 cruise missiles. kyiv officials calling the aerial assault unprecedented in power and intensity. in odesa, one civilian was killed in kyiv, falling debris causing damage. it's all part of an intensified russian military strategy, the ninth major aerial blitz this month. the russian defense ministry claiming it destroyed a u.s. made air defense system this

week. two u.s. officials tell nbc news a patriot system was damaged, but is still operational. overnight, new satellite imagery showing the destructive toll in the eastern front line city of bakhmut, which has seen the fiercest fighting for months. may 2022 and now the scorched earth of may 2023. this morning we're also learning more about the former american green beret killed in that same area, according to his family. just months before nicholas maimer died he spoke to us outside of kyiv. >> these people want the exact same thing that your average american wants. they want to raise a family, enjoy life, have a good quality of life and have the chance for prosperity, better future for their kids. >> his close friend ken koberline, sharing more about

the 45-year-old veteran. >> nick was probably one of the most selfless people i've ever met. he is a beautiful bright light that unfortunately is not here anymore. as president biden attends the g7 summit in japan, the debt ceiling talks continue to loom over washington. garrett haake has details. >> reporter: with the june 1st deadline just two weeks away, negotiators are scrambling to raise the debt ceiling and prevent a default, president biden striking a confident note wednesday. >> leaders have all agreed we will not default. every leader has said that. >> reporter: the president already cutting his trip to japan and australia short. he plans to return sunday to what he hopes will be a bipartisan agreement. negotiators meeting again overnight and expecting to work

through the weekend. >> we have to get it done. we're going to work until we get it done. >> reporter: republicans are demanding caps on future spending, speeding up some energy projects and the return of unspent pandemic funds. they're also pushing for changes for work requirements for some entitlement requirements including snap benefits. the president has left that door open over democratic exemptions. >> we do not balance the budget on the backs of children and the elderly and working families and force kids to go hungry. i mean, that is insane and unacceptable. >> reporter: without a deal, a government default could cause interest rates to skyrocket and potentially lead to millions of lost jobs. >> with each passing day the closer we get to the date, the more damage it's going to do. the weaker stock prices are going to become and the higher interest rates are going to go.

>> joining us now, democratic tina smith from minnesota. she's among the progressive democrats in the senate urging the president to consider using the 14th amendment to avoid default. senator, thanks for being on. has this ever been done before? i'm looking back, and it seems like a long time ago. what would be the consequences, do you think, of doing this? and why do you believe this is the way forward? >> well, thanks, mika. it's great to be on with you today. if anybody can negotiate a reasonable agreement with these extremist republicans, it's joe biden. the fact that they haven't taken default on our debt off the table is a sign that they're essentially trying to hold our whole economy hostage. what we're saying with this letter is if we have a choice between defaulting and invoking

the 14th amendment, the 14th amendment is clearly an option the president needs to have ready to go. the consequences of a default would be absolutely catastrophic. >> i can already hear, if this happens, the republicans just would jump all over this. they claim they have a plan. they put a plan forward. it's up to the democrats and president biden to accept it. how will the white house and democrats like you be able to message what they really were proposing? it's going to be very tough sledding if the 14th amendment is invoked, don't you think? >> first, look at their proposal. they are essentially saying unless we give in to their hostage taking, their strategy is to cut food programs and health programs for women and

seniors and kids. by the way, they won't even consider raising a penny more in taxes from their wealthy buddies and big corporations. that's completely unacceptable. so we don't want to take the path of invoking the 14th amendment, but if they leave us no choice, we are not going to be held hostage by their extremism. i think it's important for them to hear that as they're negotiating with the president who is being imminently reasonable and looking for a path forward. >> treasury secretary janet yellen said of the 14th amendment, she's not even sure it's constitutionally viable, but it would take time to play out in the courts. she said it could spark a constitutional crisis. part of the reason president biden has pushed it aside a bit is because he says it takes too long too. how do you see the 14th amendment getting us out of this mess before june 1st, which is the date the treasury secretary

has laid out as the day america stops being able to pay its bills. >> i think secretary yellen is demonstrating that president biden is negotiating in good faith with republicans to try to find a reasonable deal. if that isn't possible, if the choice is between a default and invoking the 14th amendment, which says in the constitution that the public debt of the united states shall be upheld, that would be, i think, a far better option than to experience the catastrophic consequences of a default. that would mean millions of jobs lost, americans losing trillions of dollars in wealth because of the decline in their savings accounts, interest rates going up. i think americans, because we've never had that default happen, are just sort of trying to come to grips with what it would really mean for them. it is not an abstract problem. it is something that would affect them in their banking accounts in real and tangible

ways. we must avoid that at all costs. that's why the 14th amendment needs to be on the table if the other choice is default. >> this may not be constitutional. there may also be time constraints that this option may not even prevent the financial repercussions of a default. but this would be a radical rethinking of constitutional authority, of executive authority. would you feel comfortable with the precedent this would set that republicans could take similar action if they assume the presidency again? >> first, let's just understand that this concept of how to use the 14th amendment has been around for quite a few years. it's been discussed and vetted with constitutional experts. again, i'm not saying this should be the first choice that we would have. but if it is the last choice between doing this and experiencing a default, clearly,

to me, this is the best solution. when the choice is also just this radical budget these republicans are putting forward, it's just untenable. i mean, i don't know about all of you, but i'm really wondering what possibility the speaker even has to negotiate something that would be reasonable. i mean, this is the speaker who went through 15 votes to become speaker. it looks to me like he's being held hostage to a certain degree by his extremist members, and that's terrible for the american public. >> democratic senator tina smith of minnesota, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. so three weeks after joe biden officially launched his reelection bid, the president's 2024 campaign strategy is beginning to take shape. in a new memo obtained by nbc news, biden campaign manager julie chavez rodriguez lays out three points of focus.

the first, protecting and expanding the, quote, blue wall, in addition to hanging onto narrowly won states like georgia and arizona. the campaign will invest in republican-leaning states like florida and north carolina. second, to build on the biden/harris coalition of black and latino voters. chavez rodriguez notes there is room for growth with suburban, rural and white working class voters. finally, she writes, the campaign will make an effort to break through a fragmented media environment and connect to voters where they are. let's talk about that with democratic congresswoman veronica escobar of texas, a national chair for president biden's 2024 campaign. thanks for being on this morning. it's always great to see you. that is one of the biggest

challenges, breaking through the fragmented media environment and meeting voters where they are. what's the strategy to break through? >> good morning, mika. wonderful to see you this morning. i'm grateful for the opportunity to talk about the important work ahead that we have in congress and that we have in making sure that we reelect our president. as you mentioned, one of our challenges is that fragmented media market. we are going to lean in and depend on our grassroots operation. it's really important that we meet with our voters where they are, that we engage at the ground level and that we have the conversations and make the investments necessary to ensure that we get folks to the polls and we secure those 270 electoral votes on election night. >> i wanted to touch base with

you on one of the plans laid out in that memo. that is to try to boost support among latino voters and black voters. donald trump made some gains in those groups back in 2020. there were some votes left on the playing field, if you will. that's a big task. what's the approach? >> right. absolutely these are not monolithic voting blocs. as a texas latina, what will resonate with texas latino voters may not be the same thing that resonates with arizona latino voters and so on. we're going to have a very diverse group of surrogates, of allies talking directly to our communities. while we did leave some votes on the table in 2020, that means there's an opportunity to pick

them up and make sure that they are with us, that they understand the investment that the president and this administration have made in their communities, these transformative pieces of legislation in infrastructure and addressing climate and building jobs, making sure that folks know and understand the alternative. i mean, look at what's happening with republicans today. you all were just talking about the debt limit. there's a manufacturd economic crisis that republicans have brought to the table. they're toying with our economy. they're jeopardizing our future, not just here in the united states, but the global economy. we've got to talk to folks and make sure they understand that the stakes couldn't be higher. >> you indicated just a few moments ago that one of the objectives of this plan is to meet voters where they are. let's talk about some of the most important voters to the

future of the biden presidency and his reelection, younger voters. many of those younger voters, where they are is still at home, living at home, because they can't afford to live any place else, or they're living in an apartment with two or three other younger voters and they haven't obtained the kind of jobs with the salaries they dreamed of when they graduated from high school, trade school or college. how do you go after those voters who seem, many of them, so turned off by politics in general and aren't specifically attracted to one party or another, but are certainly not attracted to the system of politics? how do you meet those voters where they are? >> i have two of those voters in my household. i have a 26-year-old son and a 24-year-old daughter. the future for them is very different than the future that existed for me or generations before. we have an economy that has not

worked for working families and for young voters. this is why it is more important than ever that we explain to the american people the differences between the two parties and that the president has been fighting for a fair economy and for great jobs, building our country from the middle out and the ground up, specifically so that these young people have a future. you know, another issue that is deeply important to young voters is addressing the climate catastrophe. there's only one party that takes this seriously, and there's only one candidate that will be on the ballot for president who has actually invested in addressing the climate crisis that we face. so the other issue that i've heard from young people, guns and the fact that many young people don't feel safe on their college campuses. they fear what's around the next

corner for them when it comes to their own personal safety. there's only one candidate on the ballot for president who takes that safety and security seriously, and that's president biden. >> congresswoman, you represent el paso, texas. it's your district. you are uniquely qualified to talk about what's happening at the border right now. title 42 expired last week. there has not been the rush of migrants anticipated. in fact, crossings have dropped in the time since. it's a question that's nagged this country for generations now. what can be done in the building where you're standing to make our immigration system better for the migrants who come here and for the people who live in your district in particular? >> absolutely. you're right, my district of el paso, texas, saw the highest number of apprehensions and encounters in 2023.

we're set in 2023 to also be the community with those higher numbers. you're also right in that title 42, the lifting of it didn't bring exactly what a lot of folks predicted. you know, it was an unknown, but many of us, mostly democrats, have long said that title 42 is not an answer. in fact, it exacerbated an already growing challenge. the fundamental challenge, as you mentioned, is congressional inaction. we saw last congress democrats, my party in the house, we filed the president's comprehensive immigration bill, but we could not get republican support. two weeks ago or maybe it was last week actually, the republicans filed a draconian border bill that actually limits immigration even further, jails families, removes protections for children and takes away funding that communities like mine really need in order to

help the federal government. so neither party is going to get everything that they want. that's clear. so the obvious answer, the long overdue answer and what i'm working on is a bipartisan solution to the challenges we've had for decades in our country around immigration. >> national cochair for president biden's 2024 campaign, democratic congresswoman veronica escobar of texas, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," the new controversy in florida involving disney. a fifth grade teacher is accused of breaking state law after showing students an animated movie that happened to include a gay character. she is now being investigated by florida officials and she joins us next on "morning joe." a offi us next on "morning joe. when the davises booked their vrbo vacation home, they didn't know about this view.

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♪♪ pretty shot of fort lauderdale, florida, this morning. we have a follow-up on a story we discussed yesterday morning that's getting a lot of national attention. a fifth grade teacher in florida is currently under investigation for showing a disney film to her class that featured a character who is biracial and gay. jenna released a tiktok video that says florida is looking into whether she broke the law. the movie in question is the pg rated animated film "strange world" about a family of legendary explorers. it features a biracial gay character who has a crush on another male character in the movie. barbie says she showed her students the science fiction film on may 3rd because it tied

into her class's science lessons and she was looking to give her students a break after a full day of standardized testing. the teacher also says she received signed permission slips from parents to show her students pg rated films at the beginning of the school year. earlier this week barbie says she submitted her resignation from the school a week before showing the movie because of politics and the fear of not being able to be who you are in florida public schools. in response to a request for comment, a spokesperson for the education department outlined its process for investigating alleged teacher misconduct, but would not comment on the allegations against barbie specifically. and jenna barbie joins us now. thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. first, i'd like to ask what is the latest?

have state investigators, school officials, have they contacted you, have they questioned you? where do things stand right now with this? [indiscernible] [indiscernible] >> so, jenna, we can't exactly hear you. we want to reestablish contact with the audio. why don't we take a moment here

and actually take a break? we'll be back in two minutes. we'll fix the audio situation so we can hear her story. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." also ahead, by the way, we have pad ma lax my who is going to be talking about her new special. e talking about her new special.

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with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. what is the quintessential dish? [ speaking non-english ] >> it's the ultimate metaphor of what puerto rico is, which is the mix of races that we have going on. that's wrapped in this leaf that came from africa and some root vegetables that were indigenous. then you add the meat, which is pork. >> i have to ask you, some people have told me, i love

this. >> that's a look at the new season of the hulu show "taste the nation" hosted by padma lakshmi. the series takes viewers across america with padma to explore the rich food and culture of immigrant groups in the united states. the show's second season is streaming now on hulu. joining us now is padma lakshmi. she's the host and executive producer of "top chef." this show is so fun. great food, great culture, great characters clearly, as you have a debate about catsup in puerto rico. that discussion wasn't really about catsup. it was about something else. you get food, but culture and politics as well. >> it's called "taste the nation" because it's a play on "face the nation." it's a direct result of my work with the aclu on immigrant

rights. i started working in 2016 for obvious reasons. there was a lot of vitriol about immigrants, which i took umbrage with. i wanted to do something using everything i had learned working with them but in an artistic and creative way in my professional life. that's how "taste the nation" was born. i created it to speak to people in red states who are maybe afraid of immigration or afraid of diversity. i'm hoping it will make every american curious about their fellow americans, because layers and layers over decades and decades of immigrants are what i think makes this country so powerful, not only economically or militarily, but as far as pop culture and cuisine. it's microcosm of the rest of

the world. >> food is such a great way in. it's something we all enjoy together. it's not political, but you can have a conversation about some thorny stuff over a good meal. you traveled the world from appalachia to houston, texas. what did you find? >> houston has the largest nigerian-american population. people who don't live in houston may not realize how big that population is. that community, the nigerian-americans in america are the most educated of any americans, even more than asians, which is the stereotype. they have more advanced degrees than anybody. they come here for academia, the oil industry in texas. when we go into a community and look at who they are and we let them tell their story. the show is about me giving my

platform to people who usually don't get a-list, high-caliber media attention. when we go there, we try to also have a thesis for each episode that extrapolates another facet of this huge subject, which is so integral to the forming and evolution of america, which is immigration. of course, nigerian-americans are perceived as just black, especially those nigerian americans who have grown up in this country, like me. i'm indian, but have also grown up in this country. we're tackling blackness in america. as somebody who's not black, it was a very sensitive subject that i wanted to make sure i waded carefully into. while i may not know what it's like to stand in somebody's shoes who is african-american, i certainly know what it's like to stand next to them all my life and seeing what's happened to

them. we talk about blackness not being a monolith. they don't carry the burden and heritage of all of what black americans do and yet it's foisted upon their shoulders. when a cop pulls their son over, they're not going to say, oh, you're nigerian, okay, you can go. you know, you're black. so they have to contend with it even though they may not initially identify with some of the same issues that are left over from jim crow, et cetera. >> the introduction of food into culture and into politics and into demography is endlessly fascinating. one of the shows you did took place in lowell, massachusetts, which i think has per capita the highest cambodian population in the united states of america. if it's not number one, it's close. the cambodian population in

lowell, massachusetts have transformed the city, made it a better, more unique place to live. part of that is the food they bring with them. i think we have a clip of the lowell, massachusetts, show. >> one morning i remember i woke up. my mom said, we've got to move from our house. that's when the khmer rouge took over. i don't know what happened if something goes wrong. they catch all those people, including my dad, took him away and i never see him again. i don't remember what my dad looked like, i was so young back then. every time i bring it up, i always have this emotion. it's like, did this really happen to me? and it did. >> it breaks my heart every time

i see that. it's true, again, we try to address a different issue. in puerto rico it was food sovereignty and just sovereignty in general. in cambodia, it was my answer to people who say we shouldn't let asylum seekers or refugees or immigrants in. i went to school near lowell, massachusetts in worcester. in the '80s and '90s it went through a really rough period like so many new england towns who went kind of bust, frankly, with the factories and the steel mills closing. this is named after robert lowell. the property values went down. a lot of stores got boarded up in the main streets of lowell. so cambodians came there literally with the clothes on their back. they didn't have an advanced degree, they didn't have even the language. within a generation, they have

not only revitalized the community and the economy, they have opened up businesses. as you said, cambodian food is extraordinary there. they've even cleaned up the local river because they are a fishing people and they wanted to use it. now every citizen in lowell can fish and picnic by the riverside. i mean, when was the last time you fished in an american river? it's cool to me. that allows me to show rather than tell why i think we need to be a little bit more open hearted, as we have been in previous generations of our country's history. >> i love that you sat down with afghans who recently were forced to immigrate over here in washington, d.c. i love afghan food. you talk about what you ate and you talk about the experience and what you learned from their recent trauma. >> that's what's wonderful about "taste the nation" for me personally is i get to learn so

much through our research. a lot of things i learned, i should have learned in school. i'm a product of the american public school system. i'm a history buff as well. i love researching all that stuff. in that community in d.c., we go and interview four different immigrants every ten or 20 years who came to this country from a completely different afghanistan than their counterparts. we talk to a woman who teaches me how to make this extraordinary feast of a dish. i'm indian, so i'm a rice snob. she completely impressed me. it was one of the most delicious things i ate all through my travels. i also interview a reporter for

the new yorker who's been nominated for a national book award. in a story for the new yorker he plays out in very quick sound bites afghanistan history in the last 40 years. you understand how much this tiny country has been affected by foreign policy in the u.s. first, the russians, then the mu ja ha dean. he also talks about being an american teenager and playing video games like call of duty. the people you have to kill look exactly like him and his brothers and his father. so what that does to a teenager psychologically is quite interesting and devastating. in his case, he makes great art as well. we talk to a beautiful young woman who's in her 20s. like me, she had a show on afghan tv.

she was a journalist. she had an interview show as well. then when the fall of kabul happened a couple summers ago, she had to escape because she was on tv without a hijab. so she was on one of those big cargo planes that we saw everyone hanging off of. when we interviewed her last spring, she was still pretty shell shocked. she had been taken in by a producer from npr and she was living in their daughter's room because their daughter had gone off to college. it was extraordinary. i think if you are willing to listen and if you dig well enough, everybody has a fascinating story to tell. i spent my career for the last 15 years, of course, eating some very gorgeous, high-end food with world- renowned chefs. it's wonderful to go and see how most of the world eats. you know, i always think it's funny that food is dominated,

like everything else, by men. it's the most male dominated industry other than perhaps the military, but most of the food made in the world is made by women. so i'm also hoping to shed light on family life and how people code switch and straddle all these different communities and cultures that they have inside them. i feel very indian, but i feel very american. i feel both of those things at once. that's also what's cool about being american, is that it accommodated a lot. >> it's an excellent show that really tells the story of our country with great food to go along with it. season 2 of "taste the nation" is streaming now on hulu. and the 20th season of "top chef" airs on bravo thursday nights at 9:00 p.m. eastern. padma, thanks for being here. still ahead, we'll dig into the new law in montana that bans

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with the l'or barista system. a masterpiece in taste montana is now the first state to completely ban tiktok. the move comes amid concerns the chinese-owned app posed security risks. tiktok disagrees, saying the ban violates free speech. miguel almaguer has more. >> reporter: this morning in montana, the clock is ticking for tiktok. >> now we're banning tiktok on a state by state basis. >> reporter: the state becoming the first in the nation to totally ban the wildly popular social media app. e wildly populr social media app wildly popular social media app. the governor calling the new law the most decisive action of any state adding it will protect montanaens personal and private data from the chinese communist

party, tiktok firing back saying the law infringes on first amendment rights promising montana residents can continue using the app as we continue working to defend the rights of our users. the law would not only make it illegal for tiktok from operating in montana, with possible fines up to $10,000 daily for each violation >> it doesn't criminalize actual users' conduct it criminalizes the sale, so it targets the app sellers. that might be the app store. that might be tiktok itself. >> tiktok with some 150 million american users is owned by the chinese company bytedance. some fear that could gif the chinese government access to sensitive user data or the ability to manipulate what content people see, a claim tiktok's ceo strongly disputed in a recent capitol hi >> bytedance is not owned or

controlled by the chinese government. it's a private company. >> reporter: still,me 46 states have already banned or are working to ban tiktok from state-owned devices and networks with the u.s. government now prohibiting the video sharing appth on all federal devices. congress has also proposed bipartisan legislation to ban the app, but for now, frustrated influencers in montana will have to wait to see what happens. >> speaking for my own page in montana here, i am going to keep posting. >> nbc's miguel almaguer with that report. we want to turn back now to jenna barbie, the fifth grade teacher in florida who is currently under investigation for showing a disney film to her class, a film that featured a character who is biracial and gay, and jenna, you were just telling us where things stand. were you approached by state investigators or questioned by the school? how did things unfold, and how did they discover that you

showed the movie? >> so it all started the day after i showed the movie, one of the admin came to my classroom and told me i needed go to the principal's office where she told me a school board member had come to our school and tried to come as a school board member and she said, no, you can come as a concerned parent. so she did. so the school board member scheduled a meeting, and later that day i got told that i played this movie and it had these questionable lessons in it and that her daughter was uncomfortable. and i didn't know i had been reported. i of course never want to make a student uncomfortable, so my immediate reactionta was i'm sorry. i learned my lesson, like i'm a first year teacher. i'm a first year mom. it's been a lot this year. i followed protocol per what the school had at the time. itfo changed two days later, by the way, by i followed the

protocols and i thought everything's fine. and then i get home and find out i had been reported for indoctrination because she called my dad, since he's a politician too, and she called him to say, oh, if i knew this was your daughter, i never would have called so are you really protecting the children or is it a political thing? it's kind of hard to tell, but anyway, that -- >> so jenna, you resigned a week before you showed the movie, am i correct by that? that you were planningec on leaving? >> yeah. >> and am i correct it was the politics in florida, these rules, these bans that were a part of your resignation or was it something else? >> no, more so the politics like within the school seasonal. -- system. i actually didn't know much about the top, top politics at all. i meant more like the standards when i meant politics and the things teachers m are held to n. the reason i went into teaching in the first place is i used to

do aba therapy. we did a lot of social, emotional, and naturalistic teaching and learning on emotional intelligence and that was the main thing i wanted to bring in on a large scale. and iti quickly learned that is not possible. >>d not possible. and for those who would ask why did you show the movie? some might say, oh, she's trying to cause trouble with these bans and push back against, i don't know, bans about showing movies, disney movies, i don't understand it, but because of the don't say gay rules and other things. was there anything there that you were pushing back against by showing the movie? why did you show it? >> i didn't even know that was a thing. the reasonw i showed it was because of its earth elements, and ime will say that again and again because it's the truth. i am a huge earth advocate, and i tell them all the time how it's alive. i make them pick up trash before

recess. i want them to learn to care about the earth and since we were doing ecosystems and earth and science at the time, it was the perfect opportunity to show this new movie that shows how the earth really is alive. it has a heart in this movie. >> wow. all right. we'll be following this story and we wish you well. jenna, thank you so much for coming on to the show this morning. that does it for usn this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break.

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