wherever you are. connecting with us on "the beat." if you want to find me online, @arimelber on tiktok, on facebook, i heard some of you signed up for my writer at arimelber.com, or as i mentioned before, if you're not into any of that, that's fine with us. we appreciate you spending time with us right here on this perhaps long running tradition of television. and i will see you back here to end the week tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern, i hope. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> where is the whistleblower exception in the rules of congress? >> the prughative of the committee to decide. >> no it's not. >> we have the rules of the house, the whistleblower testimony. the whistleblower does not wish that to be made available to the

democrats at this time. >> the whistleblower doesn't make committee rules, sir. >> that happened. jim jordan's weaponization of government hearing goes off the rails. his so-called fbi whistleblowers are getting paid by a trump supporter and recently had their security clearances revoked. that's just one example of how toxic the republican brand has become as speaker kevin mccarthy allows the most extreme members of his caucus to run wild. also tonight, the rapidly growing field of republican presidential candidates and the misplaced perception that any of them can take the nomination away from donald trump. i'm michael steele in for joy reid, and we begin tonight with the republican party. the party of abraham lincoln, ronald reagan, the party i chaired for two years. the face of so many losses, you would think that maybe just maybe the party would take a beat and reconsider the brand. alas, the modern maga republican party looks failure in the face

and says, please, sir, may i have some more? let's start with louisiana congressman larry clay higgins who claims there is no such thing as gun violence. yesterday, he grabbed an activist who was attempting to act lauren boebert some questions. higgins proceeded to shove the man back several yards nearly lifting him off the ground. higgins claimed the activist was a threat. now, back in 2004, when higgins was a patrol officer, the chief of police was prepared to take disciplinary action against him for unnecessary force on a subject. then, there's arizona congressman paul gosar, who has had an alleged white supremacist on staff for two years, according to talking points memo, his digital director has pledged his loyalty to nick fuentes, who spes slurs like they're pronouns. gosar has amplified social media posts from white supremacists

and neonazis and delivered a keynote address at a conference hosted by fuentes. take a look at some of the other elected members of the republican party. congressman george santos who was arrested and indicted on 13 charges accused of duping donors, stealing from his campaign and lying to congress. yesterday, after his party moved to block an expulsion vote, he defended himself. >> i think that this was the right decision for all of us, and i look forward to continuing to defend myself, again, innocent until proven guilty. that is a right we all have. >> mind you, this is the guy who was busted for lying about his education, his employment history, hifinances, and his philanthropic endeavors. as he was uttering those words, his fellow new yorkers, representatives jamaal bowman and alexandria ocasio-cortez, gave the guy the good old bronx cheer and told him what pretty much every new yorker is thinking, including his constituents. >> no, i did not --

>> get him out! he's got to go. >> you have to resign. you gotta go. you gotta go! >> georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene started doing what she does best, which is heckle. in this case, targeting congressman bowman. this morning, greene explained she felt threatened by bowman using an age-old trope that bowman, a black man who spent years as a middle school principal was aggressive and threatening. >> what concerns me about jamaal bowman is he has a history of aggression, not just towards others but towards me in particular. and i'm very concerned about it. on the capitol steps yesterday, he was the one that approached me, even cnn reported that. yelling, shouting, raising his voice. he has aggressive -- his physical mannerisms are aggressive. i feel threatened by him. >> poor marge.

mind you, this is the same woman who harassed a toonjer for promoting gun laws and stalked alexandria ocasio-cortez back when greene was just a qanoner spewing nonsense about jewish space lasers. joining me now is congresswoman madeleine dean of pennsylvania and brendan buck, msnbc political analyst and former senior adviser to speakers john boehner and paul ryan. welcome to you both. so, congresswoman, what are we to make of the dynamics right now in the house? as you have this committee that's looking at and into the weaponization of government, actually looking like it's trying to weaponize government against the people who are coming before it, what's your take there? what are you hearing? how are democrats planning to respond ongoing to this? >> well, it's a shame, and the string of folks that you just highlighted for their lowlight

performances just reminds me of what i hope all america knes, nat sadly, the republican party is a brand that has gone toxic. i hope the republican party can reclaim itself from some of the actors you just featured. as important as it is that we know they're toxic, we also have to know how they celebrate indecency, take a look at that string of facts and events. it's indecency after indecency. the very person claiming that she suffered aggression has done nothing but be an aggressor. in the most vile of ways. as you said, got her career started by taunting parkland survivors. just a very indecent set of folks. and i hope that we can contrast that they're not interested in governing. they took the majority, remember what they were going to do. they were going to work on the economy and prices and inflation and jobs. they have done none of it. they're doing these crazy faux

witch hunts and to your point, you're right. i serve with jim jordan, sadly, on the judiciary committee. he is flailing trying to weaponize his gavel against the biden administration to lift up mr. trump. it's a very sad circus, and what i really worry about and i would love both your and brendan's take, where do we go from here? where does the republican party go from here? they have taken themselves down such a terrible set of rabbit holes. >> so brendan, that's actually where i wanted to go with this question. and i'm glad the congresswoman set it up the way she did, because she's right in the sense that the brand is now toxic. you and i had to deal with that toxicity back in the day, as we were moving away from the 2006 and 2008 where the american people basically blanked us and said no and had to rebuild and try to get wins that would give

us a speaker ryan and a speaker boehner. how does this party recover when you have this type of toxicity being perpetuated every day? >> yeah, it's not so much that it's perpetuated. it's elevated. look, i think there's always been sort of kooky members of congress. we certainly have more than we ever have, but you know, john boehner, my former boss, referred to his job as being the mayor of crazytown. there have always been members like that. the problem is we elevate them so much right now, we incent vise them. and jamal bowman knows what he was doing. he was baiting marjorie taylor greene. she ends up becoming the face of the party. i don't think she's reflective of the average house republican, she's an outlier, but there's no opportunity too her in. some of this is the fact that

kevin mccarthy has no real majority and no opportunity to discipline anybody or kick anybody out. look at george santos. he needs every vote he can get. should have been very obvious when kevin mccarthy made marjorie taylor greene a central part of his effort to get the speaker's gavel. he understood he couldn't rock the boat at all. he has no leverage or opportunity do anything about these people. that's why they're allowed to do these things every day, and they're staying on the brand of the republican party, but nobody is really in charge of the republican party anymore. we continue this cycle. everyone gets rewarded. it works out well for marjorie taylor greene. she gets the attention she wants, she raises all the money she wants and the rest of the party suffers the damage. >> and they pay the price along the way, and to the point that brendan raised, congresswoman, about representative jamaal bowman sort of coaxing this and sort of pushing the marjorie taylor greene crazy a little bit, i want you to take a listen

to his response to her saying that she was threatened and afraid of him. >> unfortunately, this country has a history of characterizing black men who are outspoken, who stand their ground, and who push back as being threatening or intimidating. so she's not even using a dog whistle. she's using a bullhorn to put a target on my back to the people that she refers to as maga people out there. >> and that's really kind -- we have seen this play itself out in so many ways before. and that's always sort of an underlying element when congresswoman like marjorie taylor greene going after the big bruising black man who she's afraid of. what your take on his response, and how do you think people hear that in the context of what we see playing out between these two? >> well, i agree completely with

representative bowman. it's so clear, and that's what's so troubling. this kind of outward racism, bigotry, dog whistles, as he said, bullhorn. when you call a black man threatening. this is a former school principal. i have spent some time with jamaal. he's not threatening. he has the right to say i don't accept what you guys are doing around your colleague, mr. santos. that you're holding on to him so he's calling it right, historically, we know exactly what's going on here. and marjorie taylor greene loves this. that's the unsatisfying part. that any of this feeds her need for attention and fund-raising and indecency spewing. what i do think i want to comment on what brendan said. nobody is in charge over there. i have thought forever, i keep thinking, mr. mccarthy, if you really want to lead, show the skills of leadership.

make hard calls. i know he's got five votes, and so he's holding on to santos because the majority is so very slim. i believe he would have fortified himself, would have shown real leadership if at the outset he said, wait a second, we have to review this colleague of ours. and i would risk losing that vote in order to say we as a conference stand for decency, truthfulness. to the litany of things you described that he falsified, he falsified the death of his own mother. said she died at 9/11. i mean, at what point does this litany of lies, lie after lie after lie, in agreement to criminal indictment outside of the country, when does a leader stand up and say enough is enough, i'll take the risk but i'm going to show you what real leadership is? we're going to really celebrate good people and put out people who are incredibly unfit and

unserious to serve. >> brendan, that's the problem. you've got in one case these lies that are being pushed out there by, you know, santos and mccarthy is sitting there looking at his numbers going, well, i can't lose that vote. then you have gosar and you've got others who are embracing something that is just as nasty and white nationalism and hiring them on the staff. how does mccarthy manage this? is that one vote, one ortwo votes that close for him that to congresswoman dean's point, he just can't go there and say all right, we just lose this one. and we'll just work with the votes we got? what's the politics behind some of this? >> well, i think there's politics but there's also an important precedent i think he is thinking about. hopefully, the congresswoman and i agree, i don't think you want to set the precedent that someone being indicted means they're automatically removed

from the house. that's not the way we have operated in the past. there have been plenty house and senate democrats who found themselves indicted and stuck around. i think that's what kevin mccarthy is thinking about, you have to have some level of due process. i think kvin mccarthy would be happy for george santos to go away, because of how bad a reflection he is on the republican party. the ethics committee has said please continue, do your work. we need a resolution from you. we need an answer from the ethics committee. when you tell us you think he's violated some house ethics rules, i think he will be gone. i think they will actually find a way to get rid of him. but they need some level of process. that's what he is thinking about, because look, kevin mccarthy got the speaker's gavel. i don't think any other vote is necessarily going to be as close or important as that one. they could probably spare george santos. as far as it goes for the staffer, every staffer serves at the pleasure of the house speaker. the house speaker is within his

rights of getting rid of that guy. i hope they would give a look at doing that. >> we have about 30 seconds. could you respond on the process, i have about 30 seconds. >> absolutely. look, i'm a lawyer by training. i don't believe based on indictment that someone should be removed. but this is an admitted liar, serious lie after serious lie after serious lie, and these aren't frauds and lies that are disconnected from his public service. these are the lies on which he duped citizens to vote for him. that's unprecedented in my mind. and that is something that, you know, the duplication of sending it back to ethics, it's already in ethics. that was just a ruse this week to have it tabled basically. i would love for mr. mccarthy to show real leadership, not hide behind oh, we can't just remove people because there's an indictment outstanding. that's not the case here. this is an unprecedented liar, and admitted liar, who defrauded the public to get to congress.

>> all right, congresswoman madeleine dean and brendan buck, thank you both very much. up next on "the reidout," house republicans vaunted weaponization committee serves up another nothing burger despite them literally making up the rules as they go along. "the reidout" continues after this. the same as yours. almost... just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus,(upbeat music)cing. only at sleep number.

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republicans in their ongoing effort to do the bidding of donald trump. jim jordan led the charge in the latest spectacle of the political theater known as the subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government. today's hearing featured self proclaimed fbi whistleblowers who purportedly could back up claims that infbi is rife with bias against conservatives. piend you, two of the fbi agents who testified, marcus allen and steven friend, had their security clearances revoked this month over security concerns, according to a letter sent from the fbi to the judiciary committee and obtained by nbc news. the letter says allen was found to have expressed sympathy for persons or organizations that advocate, threaten, or use force or violence. promoted conspiracy theories about the january 6th violence including that federal law enforcement had a role in instigating the riot and had misled a colleague about a january 6th suspect. in steven friend's case, the

letter says she refused to participate in an arrest of a january 6th suspect, downloaded documents from fbi computer systems to an unauthorized removable flash drive, released sensitive fbi information on his personal social media accounts without authorization, and participated in multiple unapproved media interviews including an interview with, wait for it, russian government news agencies. as you would expect, the hearing also included the downplaying of the events of january 6th as heard from here -- as heard here from republican congressman dan bishop. >> another of you has been concerned about whether, about the investigation of people by the preeminent law enforcement agency in the country for nothing more than being on a bus and traveling to a place where there was a speech by the president and so forth. >> yeah, yeah. and so forth. but it was democratic congressman linda schott sanchez who perfectly called the hearing

what it was. >> make no mistake, this hearing is a vehicle to legitimize the events of january 6th and the people who perpetrated it and why? because donald trump is running for president again. and if you normalize the events of january 6th, if you repeat his election fraud lies, then maybe he doesn't seem quite so extreme. maybe it will be easier to overturn a free and fair election the next time. >> joining me now is former democratic senator doug jones. he's now a distinguished senior fellow at the center for american progress. and my buddy frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence. welcome to you both. frank, i need to tap into that smart brain of yours on the technicalities regarding whistleblowers. if you could give us just a quick refresher, primer, about what the whistleblower law is and what constitutes a whistleblower, and i then want to follow up, do any of these

guys fit that bill? >> yeah, let's start with the quick answer on the last part. no. none of them have official whistleblower status because none of them chose to go through the approved paths, plural, that you can become designated as a whistleblower. a whistleblower is supposed to be reporting waste, fraud, or abuse or retaliation for becoming a whistleblower. you do it through, in the fbi, you do it through fbi first and/or go across the street to doj and you have the office of inspector general, the office of professional responsibility. it's all laid out there. in fact, it's posted in employee break rooms and on the fbi internet. you can't pretend you don't know how to report waste, fraud, and abuse. the only fraud i saw today was what jim jordan was trying to do, to promulgate a fraud on all of us by insisting these poor fbi employees had been retaliated against simply for

expresser conservative views. imagine that, conservative views within the fbi. suddenly, i miss the memo, michael, where the fbi became a left-wing bastion of liberals. the fbi came with receipts because last night, they delivered to jim jordan and the subcommittee the actual facts about why these employees had their clearances revoked, and the facts are damning. you recited some of them, but refusing to participate in the arrest of a january 6th defendant, one guy actually lied to a colleague about finding no information that a january 6th defendant had committed crimes or assaulted police officers. that was wrong. another guy went in after hours and withdrew, as you noted, withdrew sensitive information from fbi files and lied about it, then secretly recorded his supervisors in violation of florida law. when you look at it, you go sounds like valid security

clearance revocation to me. >> it does. to that point, doug, i want to follow up with you and have you take a listen to exchange between representative debbie wasserman schultz and questioning the witnesses regarding their whistleblower status to frank's point. >> mr. chairman, these individuals have been determined not to be whistleblowers this are not whistleblowers. they have been determined by the agency not to be whistleblowers. are you deciding they're whistleblowers? >> yes, the law decides. did you not listen to the testimony, read the law. >> his attorney is asserting they're whistleblowers. the law does not determine they are whistleblowers. >> so the circus side of that notwithstanding, doug, how does this committee expect to be taken seriously when the agency itself is looking at these individuals and saying, they're

not checking all the boxes that frank laid out. they're not checking the boxes as actual whistleblowers, but the committee chairman here, jim jordan, says the law says it is. we know the law better than the fbi. >> you know, michael, i think that jim jordan doesn't really give a whit about whether or not they're whistleblowers or not. he's going to try to protect them. what he's doing is exactly what representative linda sanchez said. and that is trying to put on a show to somehow bolster donald trump and his presidential campaign, to try to minimize whatever happened on january 6th, and to try to show that the fbi was somehow biased. and i agree with frank, i think everybody didn't get the memo that all of a sudden the fbi who got criticized not too long ago for not adequately investigating white supremacy is now some left-wing arm of whatever left wing organization. so it's damaging.

and what's really sad about this is what it's doing to the fbi. that is the real problem here. there are thousands of agents out there that are both republican and democrat, that have conservative views and progressive views. but they do their damn jobs. they are there every day working these cases, the way they're supposed to be, following the rule of law, and following orders. and remember, the fbi has to be disciplined. they have to have an almost military like discipline within their ranks because of the sensitive nature of everything that they do. that could put this country in jeopardy if they really had rogue agents. >> frank, that's, for me, the takeaway at the end of the day. if you have these two individuals who as you described their behavior as has been reported by the fbi and made public in the press, what does that do inside that institution? you're an fbi man. you know that culture, the

people. what are they thinking right now when they hear the chairman of the judiciary committee sitting in this particular seat, you know, weaponization of government, literally weaponizing the government against the fbi? >> it does affect morale. i have spoken with folks this week about these hearings. and they're just tired of it. you can even see with the fbi's response, look, the letter they sent to jordan, the fbi, is an unprecedented letter in terms of the amount of data it contains about really human resource matters and personnel matters, but they have been adjudicated and where they have been adjudicated the fbi says we're taking the gloves off. you're going to make these fake allegations, we're fighting back. we're going to tell you the facts. it does affect the rank and file. it's affecting decision making. but the irony here is kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. the hard right maga folks are

saying we think the fbi is politicized. we think they're biased. so here come these employees who have been disciplined for inserting their political opinion into their work, and now they're heroes for the maga right. you can't win. and clearly, they don't care. >> we have seen that movie before, frank, in a number of other cases where individuals who they would once vilify are suddenly heroes. i want to get a little bit, since i have the former congressman, i want to get processy here, because it's also instructive to listen to an exchange between stacey plaskett and jim jordan about the actual sharing of transcripts and the transcribed testimony of the witnesses. >> will you give us a copy of that testimony that was transcribed of your discussions with him? >> that's up to mr. allen. >> but you are in possess of them, aren't you? ? sure are.

>> why would you not give them to us. >> mr. allen is the whistleblower. >> but he's comfortable here in open discussion with us today? >> sure is. you can ask him a question if you want. >> you don't share your information with the minority? >> no. >> you're not sharing information that you obtained. >> whistleblower saw what you did with mr. friend and others, the false information you gave to the pres, so much that they had to issue corrections. >> the whistleblower doesn't decide that, the committee decides it. >> and we decided. >> so i want to correct myself. i referred to you as a congressman and i had congresswoman dean. senator, i want to get it right because i don't want to get in trouble. you know how folks here in washington are. but senator, seriously, though, the process here of watching this play out on this committee, what does it say about what they're trying to do, okay, this is sort of affording them all legitimacy in the first instance, and how people when

they hear that walk away thinking about this process? >> yeah, no, it clearly signifies that they have an agenda, and they don't want anything to interfere with that agenda, even the facts. even an element of fairness. what you just heard from jim jordan is one of the most absurd things the committee chairman has probably ever said, and there's been a lot of crazy things said by committee chairmen over the years. it's clearly indicating they have an agenda. they are letting -- they know how this is going to end because they want it to end a certain way. they're already writing a report, and now they have to do whatever they can to make sure that they have the information that they can put in a report that is completely in their favor. it is not something that is going to be balanced. it's not something that's going to be fair. unlike the january 6th committee, who invited people to be involved, who invited folks to take part in the committee, and they refused, now, they come

full circle and refusing to let the democrats even really be involved, and the fairness of this is just stunning. and i can't believe that the american people will let them get away with it. >> all right, thank you very much, former senator doug jones and frank figliuzzi, thank you both. >> still ahead, it looks like the republican presidential field is about to get a bit crowded, with candidates operating under the misconception that trump is actually going to let them get away with it. that he's vulnerable. we'll talk about that when we come back. when you sleep more deeply, you wake up more energized. introducing purple's new mattresses our unique gel flex grid draws away heat, helping you fall asleep faster. it relieves pressure for less “ow,” and more “ahhh.” and instantly adapts as you move, without ever disturbing your partner. amazing. sleep better. live purple. save $800 off mattress sets at our memorial day event.

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as we have long speculated, florida governor ron desantis will enter the 2024 presidential race. nbc news has confirmed exclusively that an official announcement is expected next week. here's the governor on wednesday signing bills targeting drag shows, transgender kids, and the use of bathrooms and pronouns. a clear message of what his presidential priorities would look like. he isn't the only fresh face entering what will become a crowded republican field. senator tim scott plans to make a, quote, major announcement in south carolina next monday. weeks after he launched an exploratory committee for presidential bid. while virginia governor glenn youngkin is signaling a run with an ad that he released today, invoking ronald reagan in his call for a new era of american

values. youngkin also seemed to suggest he is the next reagan? which of course, is the point. joining me now are msnbc political analyst cornell belcher and matthew dowd. gentlemen, welcome to you both. matthew, let's start with you on the glunki in -- on the glunkin. i don't know if it was fraudian or poetic. >> perfect. >> glenn youngkin's ad, linking him to reagan. it just, to me, seems a little bit much, or am i missing something? >> no, you know, michael, we had this conversation. i think cornell has been part. cornell has been part of it. if ronald reagan ran today in the republican primary, he couldn't get 10% of the vote in the republican primary today. >> exactly. >> in fact, he would be attacked by all of the other republicans including donald trump for not

being supportive of all of the crazy stuff that they are for in this. to me, it's a sign, and we saw some of this in some of the republicans who ran against donald trump in 2016. it's a sign that either he doesn't fully understand who the republican party voters are today or he somehow thinks that there's space in the race for that kind of republican. he's going to discover to his detriment that that republican party that he thinks still exists is gone. >> yeah. and i think he should probably recognize that and given the fact he sort of got into his race using crt as a weapon against the black community in virginia and certainly stoking white fears about their 6-year-old learning something sophisticated as critical race theory. but i want to take it to florida next for you, cornell, because the headlines in florida right

now have got to be somewhat problematic for the governor, as he's looking to step out there. headlines, disney pulls plug on billion-dollar development in florida. disney ends plans to relocate thousands of employees to new florida campus. tampa pride event canceled after desantis signs anti-drag bill. how does he weather that? how do you say to the country, look how well i'm governing, when your major corporate player and employer is saying, you know what, we're going to cut back? >> first, i wanted to say something about glunkin. >> help yourself. >> like a turducken. >> you know what glunkin's problem is, i love the ad? i'm not a republican primary voter. i'm not going to vote in the republican primary, but it is a throwback to a time that i think is gone in the republican party. but desantis, how does he

weather this, for the republican primary? you see what he's doing to weather it. he's doubling down on going after the most marginal communities. doubling down on lgbtq communities, doubling down on going after issues of diversity and critical race theory. he's doubling down on all of the things that quite frankly are very trumpian right now, so a lot of those republican primary voters, a lot of the stuff that we think are big and important issues, they'll be important in a general election when you have to say okay, i can actually govern and bring people together and not lose big business. but for a republican primary, his number one competitor is donald trump. >> right. >> and so he's got to double down on all that divisiveness in order to compete. so i don't think he's going to be hurt by it, i really don't. >> that's interesting. matthew, let me get your take on

those headlines as well, but also, the other side of this is tim scott. also coming out this week into the presidential race. how does that play now, which ought to be interesting given how much sort of the stoking of white nationalism the party seems to like doing, having a black man as a potential nominee ought to make for an interesting moment. matt? >> yeah, to me, if i were donald trump sitting at mar-a-lago, i would say the more the merrier. keep coming, everybody come into this race. donald trump walks in with a solid 40% to 45% of the vote. it doesn't matter. he's going to get 40% to 45%. that division of the other 60% or 55%, if it's divided by six people, then it doesn't matter anymore. and on ron desantis, ron desantis seems to be his main

argument seems to be i'm a winner, donald trump is a loser, though he hasn't said the word trump loser, at some point he has to. is that what happened this week in all of the headlines, he lost the jacksonville mayor's race -- >> i think we had a little connection problem with our buddy matt. we're going to take a quick break. and what we'll do when we come back with cornell and matthew, we're going to get into the troubling disconnect between what republican leadership says it wants and what the maga base actually wants, including a nationwide ban on abortion. we'll get into that right back in 60 seconds. business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases!

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no matter which way you slice it, it has been a bad week for the republican party. on tuesday, they faced major up sets in florida, colorado, and pennsylvania, something that has become a pretty consistent pattern over the past year. basically, ever since roe v. wade was overturned. while the normal wing of the party may see that as a glaring issue, the maga base doesn't really seem to care. doubling down on their wildly unpopular extremist positions despite the fact it's costing them big time. that's because the maga base isn't focused on the here and now. they're playing the long game, taking control of the once mundane races like school boards, local government, and

election positions. and also taking over the political infrastructure inside each of the states from the ground up. cornell belcher and matthew dowd are back with me. so gentlemen, i want to start with donald trump bragging about overturning roe v. wade. just take a quick listen. >> i'm the one that got rid of roe v. wade, and everybody said that was an impossible thing to do. i put on three supreme court justices, very few people have had that privilege or honor. and they are terrific people, and they happen to believe that roe v. wade should not be there. >> so matt, we know >> but the party, that is a problem. when the leading candidate is like yeah, i did it, and we have other candidates trying to downplay or trying to soft

pedal a national ban, talking point on oh yeah, getting the power back to the states. how do they navigate that space on this issue given how voters feel. 70% are like we do not like what we are seeing in the space right now. >> i do not think that they can navigate the issues specifically. i don't think they can navigate it on its own. i think they will avoid talking about it and not conversing i think it is what they are going to do. i think the democrats ought to understand as much as they can the democrats would be really smart and we've had this conversation, to raise it up to a much bigger issue than just abortion. to raise it to be a pro american democracy plank and because that is where they've had the most success. i don't think that democrats specifically want to get down in the weeds on this. i think that they want to make this a part of a much broader argument about freedom in

america. >> walk us through that thinking. >> it is this ideal about how freedoms are under attack. by the way, that clip of donald trump talking about how he delivered and overturned roe v. wade, i will go out on a limb and say that is going to be in a commercial. that is going to be in a commercial. and that is going to be that. it is a greater ideal about freedom was being under attack and it is everything from reproductive rights to what you see in the state with rolling back rights and access and an access to the ballot. this freedom framework which by the way i think that i am going to give doubt and credit for the campaign picking up on this. because we've been preaching this for a while and clearly some of their research picked up on it as well because when they did launch, i was heartened to see that they launched this campaign under a

thematically -- talking about freedom and threats to our democracy. >> i like the way the both of your thinking, the question for me is ken democrats pull it off? you've heard me say this, democrats, i'm sorry, they don't do politics that we'll. but the idea of using the freedom narrative that republicans have arguably owned, they branded themselves with that, now they are showing their anti-freedom tendencies. that argument seemingly from democrats could take hold. >> absolutely. and guns can be put in the middle of it because guns can be made to see, i want freedom to send my kids to a safe school, i want freedom to walk around and be able to live my life without worry of gun violence. freedom is directly connected to guns and the ability to live securely in our society. your question is a valid

question. cornell and i talked about this probably 12 times in the run up to 2022, and at some point some of the candidates did decide to adopt it. michigan is a perfect example. all three women ran on this exact platform together and did overwhelmingly well in the state. so, i think if the president does it, if president biden's campaign doesn't, then that is the most important. because he could lead other democrats to do it. but the problem with democrats as they have the tendency to get distracted by the shiniest piece of foil that happens to be on the street and not stay on the road to discipline. disciplined, to me, is the most important function on the campaign. democrats do not always have discipline. >> they don't. herding cats, herding cats. but those cats are being herded around the issue, as not noted, guns, abortion, the sense of freedom. but also you look at trench gender issues. what is happening in

educational fronts with school boards and books. negatively, there is something that could be put together and build out against this, we own the freedom conversation on the right. >> it was a mistake for the republicans because you are right. you will own this, for the last two or three decades. now we can make it into the suburbs, and these cultural wars, these young voters are completely rejecting these culture wars, and they are becoming the base of our party. >> all right, we will see whether they can do basic politics. thank you. we will be right back. we will be right back. (janet) so much space!... that open kitchen! (tanya) is that a walk in closet? (ethan) ooh, those tiles! (intercom) boosters are engaged. (ethan) we've got a problem! (janet) problem?! (ethan) how can you sell your house when we're stuck on a space station for months???!!! (tanya) bad timing, janet!!! (janet) but that was the one!!!! (brian) no, no, no... opendoor...!! (tanya) no, don't open the door! (brian) opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. (all) really? (brian) yea!!! (intercom) we have liftoff. (janet) nice!

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i struggled with cpap every night. but now that i got the inspire implant to treat my sleep apnea, i'm sleeping much better. in fact, it's making me think of doing other things i've been putting off. like removing that tattoo of your first wife's name. but your mom's name is vicky too! that's even worse. ( ♪♪ ) inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. we moved out of the city so our little sophie learn more and view important safety information could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? >> tomorrow, joy is back with

what, we have a ton of mulch.

her interview with author and teacher, husband of transportation secretary pete buttigieg. there is a new book for young adults. you told troy his hoping to reach young readers. especially in areas where they might feel silenced. >> i want young people to read this book into know that they are perfectly fine just the way they are. there is nothing wrong with them. and there are millions of people out here backing them up. it really does get better and it will continue to get better if we commit ourselves to that work. >> from that interview tomorrow, that is tonight's read out. all in with chris hayes starts now. ght's read>> tonight on all in. >> if you are coming