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tv   Andrea Mitchell Reports  MSNBC  May 19, 2023 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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then later deleted that tweet. he later posted a new statement with an apology saying that a report of their discovery was unconfirmed. the children's lives are the government's priority. they are searching for them. now they have not been found. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. reach me on twitter and instagram. watch highlights from today's show. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. "andrea mitchell reports," the g7 summit in hiroshima, japan, kicking off today with president biden telling america's closest allies the u.s. will green light their transferring f-16s to ukraine and help train pilots to fly the planes, a process that will take four months. the world's democratic leaders will also issue new sanctions
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against russia this weekend. they are expected to hear in person from president zelenskyy after his appearance today at the arab league summit. >> we do have truth on our side. we are pushing the occupiers out of our land. the president is monitoring debt ceiling negotiations back home. the white house tries to ward off defections from progressive lawmakers angry about potential cuts in entitlement programs. this hour, disney striking back against ron desantis just days before his expected presidential campaign announcement. they scrapped plans to relocate 2,000 jobs to florida for a billion dollar new development. desantis is expected to announce next week. he told major donors, trump
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cannot beat biden as he makes a push to post a large campaign war chest the day he announces. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. republican debt ceiling negotiators say they are pressing pause on the talks at a critical stage in the process. in the last hour, a lead negotiator exiting the talks telling reporters, we're not going to sit here and talk to ourselves. president biden has been receiving briefings on the discussions as he works alongside g7 allies in japan. their priority today, russia's invasion of ukraine with a new round of sanctions by world leaders against the kremlin expected this weekend. they await an expected face-to-face discussion with president zelenskyy in the coming days. joining me now is correspondent kristin welker in japan where she will co-host "saturday
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today" and garrett haake. let's start with you. this new pause in the debt ceiling talks, somewhat of a surprise after the optimism of the last 48 hours. does it seem that graves is projecting that he is not getting or seeing enough give on the other side? >> reporter: that's certainly what he is projecting. i have covered i don't know how many of these bipartisan negotiations. there's almost a moment like this where the two sides having experienced some momentum, usually made by taking some of the things that they are more likely to agree on and agreeing on those and clearing those off the table, hits a snag. they cleared out of the negotiating room a little while ago. graves calling it a pause and explaining his decision to walk away like this. >> it has great savings in it. it's responsible. it puts us on a path. until people are willing to have reasonable conversations about
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how you can actually move forward and do the right thing, then we're not going to sit here and talk to ourselves. >> reporter: there's two things that could be going on. sometimes walking away from the table is a way to go back to your side and show how hard you are fighting for your priorities. it's part of the theater of the negotiations that happen in washington. perhaps we will see the two sides come back together later and resume the talks. sometimes it shows a larger problem or perhaps is an opportunity to highlight what could be a thorny issue. this issue came after we know the president was read back into the talks a few hours. we could have new red lines here from the white house side. it's just too early to say right now. the bottom line is, time is of the essence. the negotiators know it. mitch mcconnell knows it. he tweeted about this, saying it's time for the white house to get serious. time is of the essence. we will see whether the pressure pushes them back together today or whether this is a larger
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hangup that may take more time. >> of course, the progressives have been the problem for president biden. he has to juggle both sides of his caucus just as mitch mcconnell and mccarthy has to worry about the more -- the freedom caucus members on the house side, the more conservative republicans. >> reporter: you are right. i think part of what garrett is saying is so critical to highlight here. this idea that both sides need to show that they are fighting so hard for their own constituents. in this case, we know a major sticking point has been the issue of work requirements. progressives have been opposed to the white house giving an inch on work requirements. white house saying they are working hard to make sure they are not a part of this. medicaid will be left untouched. we know there has been discussion around the issue of
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food as well as housing assistance. this is from a white house official. we just got this moments ago from monica alba. a responsible bipartisan budget agreement remains possible if both sides negotiate in good faith and recognize that neither side will get everything it wants. undoubtedly, this is a major shift in tone. the white house has in recent hours expressed optimism. is this theatrics? it's unclear. >> the president with all of the world leaders there is trying to project leadership, economic strength. one of the focuses is to counter japan -- in japan is to counter china, which is holding its own summit today. >> reporter: absolutely. the issue of china is going to be a key issue here. there's no doubt about that. as is the issue of russia's war in ukraine. of course, we reported just
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moments ago that the u.s. and its allies have agreed to send f-16 fighter jets to ukraine. this is significant. it's not clear which countries will be sending these fighter jets or what the time line is. but this is a significant shift. the u.s. had been opposed to this. now the fact that they are going to give president zelenskyy something he has been asking for since the war began, quite frankly. it's hugely significant. they are expecting to hear from president zelenskyy in person. you can anticipate this will be front and center. the u.s. also announcing a new round of sanctions against russia as well today. a lot of focus on countering a rising china. a lot of focus on the russian war in ukraine. >> a very busy summit, busy action for both of you guys. thank you both. let it go. disney abandoning plans for a
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billion dollar florida development amid the growing feud with governor desantis. how donald trump is using a popular children's nursery rhyme as the theme to attack ron desantis. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds. don't go away. we are right here on msnbc. arec pantene's pro-vitamin formula repairs hair. as well as the leading luxury bonding treatment. for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene. so, you found the no7 then... it's amazing! hydrates better than the expensive stuff i don't live here, so i'm taking this and whatever's in the back. it's already sold in the us. but i'm not taking any chances. the uk's #1 skincare has crossed the pond. i think i'm ready for this. the uk's #1 skincare heck ya! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ finally we can eat.
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♪ you know you make me wanna...♪ and then we looked around and said, wait a minute, this isn't even our stroller! (laughing) you live with your parents, but you own a house in the metaverse? mhm. cool...i don't get it. here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?! ♪ yeah, yeah ♪ we have breaking news in the 2024 race. one more candidate making it official. senator tim scott is filing to run for the republican nomination today as his team buys $6 million in advertising in iowa and new hampshire. florida governor ron desantis will jump in next week as his fight with disney is heating up. the entertainment giant scrapping plans for a new billion dollar office complex in florida and will not move 2,000 jobs from california as planned. a disney executive telling
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employees, this was not an easy decision to make but i believe it's the right citing changing business conditions. desantis' press secretary is saying, quote, given the company's financial straits, falling market cap and declining stock price, it's unsurprising they would restructure their business operations and cancel unsuccessful ventures. ouch. disney is suing florida for stripping its special self-governing status after the company came out against what critics the don't say gay law barring classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. the disney/desantis fight will have a cost for florida with the ceo bob iger sounding frustrated last week. >> joining me now, capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, gabe gutierrez and politico white
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house editor sam stein and phil rucker, editor at "the washington post." ali, to you first about tim scott. how does him jumping into the race change the dynamics? >> reporter: it's not exactly shocking. scott has been teasing this in several days over the last few months. we have done trips with him to the early primary states. he said he is exploring. now, of course, we are seeing in this fec filing that he is fully putting his statement of candidacy out there. it's basically the most you can do before you say the words, i am running for president. we expect him to do that a few days from now on monday when will head to charleston with him where he is expected to do a rally and make it official. at that point, he starts to hit the road. we have seen this many times. candidates announce and they barnstorm the early states. he will go to iowa and new hampshire as part of that early state blitz. what's going to follow him is the air cover and radio cover
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that you mentioned in your introduction. the fact this campaign in waiting is spending $6 million on an ad buy that's going to run from wednesday, when he touches down in the state, all the way through first debate, shows their spotlight on iowa and new hampshire. shows their deep pockets. that's something senior officials have told me. they are planning on using a lot of it. it allows scott to stay in the race. it allows him to show his fund-raising prowess. we know this. you need a candidate who is willing and you need the money to get you through this. it's potentially a slog of a primary. it's notable scott is showing his monetary strength, putting more money into first ad buy than some campaigns even have cash on hand. i think the notable thing -- i'm sure this caught gabe's attention. the way the trump team is responding by saying, it shows that there's not a clear second place here. in their words, second place is wide open, a clear dig at desantis. >> exactly.
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gabe, let's talk about ron desantis, who visits new hampshire today. the plans for that new disney office complex campus, a large complex, were announced two years ago. disney's decision to pull the plug now? >> look, this decision -- or this complex had been pushed back for several years. disney has come back and said, as you mentioned in the introduction, that this is due to the changing business landscape. of course, there's been new leadership changes at disney recently. you cannot ignore the context here. this comes weeks after this ongoing feud between desantis and disney boiled over with the company suing desantis, suing the state of florida. as you said, 2,000 white collar jobs won't be relocating from california to the state of florida. this move had been unpopular among some disney employees. again, this all comes just days before governor desantis is expected to make this
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presidential announcement, make it official next week. andrea, it's hard to believe that we got here. the governor a few days ago in iowa mentioned -- talking about how ironic that he and his wife casey got married at walt disney world in 2009 and here we are. >> indeed. she is a major player on the campaign. that for another day. a major, major involvement by casey desantis. sam stein, let's talk about this. your reaction to a new ad from donald trump's pack against ron desantis? it's running on cable in iowa and new hampshire. it's to the tune of "old macdonald has a farm."
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>> sam, i know you know new hampshire well. you spent years in new hampshire. that seems to me something that's aimed at new hampshire as much as at iowa. >> first of all, an incredibly corny ad. >> yes. >> it may be effective. >> is that pun intended? >> yeah. it was not intended, but it does work, i suppose. it's interesting that going after desantis in the airwaves, on squirrely policy grounds in some respects. entitlements. he wants to take aways is and medicare. new hampshire famously against taxes. do not like that. also an elderly population that would want to protect their entitlements, even if you are republican or conservative. they are doing that.
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then trump is going after desantis almost squarely on personality. calling him aloof, lacking charisma and so on and so forth. it's a one/two punch. in reality, they view desantis as the biggest foe. they have been going after him aggressively. i believe they welcome people like tim scott and other candidates to jump in as well. they know that the more crowded the field, the less likely it becomes a two-person contest, which is probably the one way in which desantis could knock off donald trump in a primary. >> exactly. "the new york times" has this quote by desantis yesterday. he said, you have basically three people at this point that are credible in this whole thing, biden, trump and me, meaning desantis. of those three, two have a chance to get elected president, biden and me, based on all the
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data in swing states which is probably insurmountable because people aren't going to change their view of them. that's his very subjective political analysis. phil, what do you think about that? >> andrea, it's a case that we have heard through reporting the last few months. the desantis team has been making this to donors and to other members of the republican elected establishment, if it were. it's a case that, trump against biden could be a repeat of 2020. trump has a lot of baggage. when you talk about a general election voting base, and that desantis, they argue, is a sharper contrast with biden and could be a stronger general election candidate. that's the case we are hearing desantis and his team make as they try to secure commitments from some of the party's biggest donors. these are people who would not only max out to his campaign but
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would write million or multi-million dollar checks to his super pac which would enable to him fund the attack ads necessary if he is going to try to defeat donald trump in the republican primary. >> phil, "the washington post" is reporting that there's a traffic sign in orlando, florida, that was hacked wednesday to show the violent anti-gay message. an awful message. is this proof, they claim -- critics claim that desantis' cultural war or cultural initiatives are dividing the statement or bringing out bad messaging? any connection to it? >> i don't know about the traffic sign in particular. clearly, desantis' overall agenda on cultural issues, all the lgbtq restrictions, also his stance on abortion policy and other matters, has been a real -- a really divisive and
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polarizing agenda in the state of florida. it's garnered national attention. i think if desantis were to become the republican nominee, it's almost certain to be a major fault line in a general election, because a lot of these measures that desantis proposed, signed into law, advocating for in florida seem to be aimed at appealing to the far right portion of the republican base. when you look at a general audience and some of the voters that an eventual president will have to win over in some swing battleground states, it could be damaging for desantis. we will hear a lot about the issues if he were to make it into the general election against biden. >> he thinks it's good politics. he has been bringing them out one after another this week. it's considered by his team a strong point. gabe, let me go back to you quickly on that. >> andrea, governor desantis has not shied away from those
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issues. these were issues that he -- the florida legislature gave him significant vehicle troi victore range of cultural issues with the legislative session wrapping up a short time ago. he does think these are important. he has many supporters in the state of florida who think -- they support him on the cultural issues and on the issue with disney, attacking what he views as, quote, woke corporations. these are winning issues in the minds of the desantis viewers. that remains to be seen whether that will go -- work out in a general election, as phil mentioned. at this point, he seems focused on a republican primary. this is all teeing up his expected announcement in the coming days. he thinks this is good politics. he thinks if he can make the electability argument in the coming months, he thinks it could be a winner for him as he takes on former president trump. >> thank you very much.
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ali, gabe, sam, phil, thank you. progressives take issue with the direction of the debt talks. less than two weeks before a possible default. jen psaki joins me next on "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. snbc - double check that. eh, pretty good! (whistles) yeek. not cryin', are ya? let's tighten that. (fabric ripping) ooh. - wait, wh- wh- what was that? - huh? what, that? no, don't worry about that. here we go. - asking the right question can greatly impact your future. - are, are you qualified to do this? - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - yeehaw! - do you have a question? - are you a certified financial planner™? - yes. i'm a cfp® professional. - cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfp®. find your cfp® professional at letsmakeaplan.org.
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the debt ceiling bill that the president is hoping to negotiate with speaker mccarthy, not his only challenge in avoiding a fiscal disaster. could the price be too steep for progressives, opening a rift with the white house. joining me now is jen psaki host of "inside with jen psaki" on sunday and a former biden white house press secretary. all of your -- the fact that you were the state department spokeswoman, too.
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you have done it all. >> i've been in a lot of rooms, for whatever that's worth. >> you learned so much along the way. president biden at a summit. you have been to the g7 meetings. projecting strength against russia. we heard the f-16 thing is being cleared up. it will take four months to train the pilots. china sitting out there, holding their own summit. back home, he has the negotiations. everything depends on this, economic strength of the u.s., the recession. you have got members -- i interviewed bob good, a house member, yesterday. his belief is that default is not such a big deal. >> they are clearly not people who have attended these summits, as you said. susan glasser wrote a great piece about this today. what's important to understand is when the president of the united states is at a summit or when he is not, all of the word leaders and their teams are watching what's happening in the united states. is democracy going to last? are they going to default?
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all of that makes the united states look weak on the world stage. if you are china, you are probably -- you are rooting for a default. for the president, this is about -- he is there to project strength. the united states is back at the table. these negotiations, this being tricky and unresolved at home, is not great. that's important for people -- republicans, democrats to really understand. >> we have been so focused on the house and the house progressives, keeping democrats together. but you have 11 senators signing legislation or signing a letter, rather, to the president that he should just do it on his own, the 14th amendment. he is backed up by lawrence tribe, a constitutional scholar who had been in the other camp in 2011. more senators could come on board. then they would really have a problem if they can't get it through the senate. >> that's right. the 14th amendment has never been -- this has never been invoked before for these purposes. that's important to know. the challenge here is the time line.
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there will be no doubt legal challenges if the president were to invoke the 14th amendment. i think if you are any of the senators who signed this letter or many others in congress, you are thinking, we don't want to do this again. can't we just have another option instead of having kevin mccarthy and the right wing of the republican party hold us hostage? i suspect it will be an option out there for some time. it's never been done before. legal challenges would be an issue. the time line is a little tricky. it seems like the white house is taking a look at it, even as they are focused on negotiations. >> saying, we would consider it for a future negotiation, but we have to do this now because -- what janet yelling is saying, you don't have the time. >> there's not the time line, exactly. the fact that -- today one of the top negotiators for kevin mccarthy came out and said, we need to pause, that may feel like, my gosh, we are barrelling towards a default. i will tell you having sat in the room for a lot of these negotiations or being a part of
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the white house team, that's not necessarily what's going to happen. sometimes there are pauses where it looks like everything is going to explode and not come back together, and it does. democrats and the white house have a big challenge because of the work requirements. the response about how problematic that would be for so many people who benefit from a lot of these benefits that those work requirements would be put on. >> worried the president is going to compromise too much. let's talk about the presidential race. tim scott filing his papers. he is going to make the formal announcement monday. you did an interview with senator cory booker and found that there is an unusual -- maybe not what you would expect, but they worked together on the gun law that didn't quite come together. there's a connection there. >> there is. they worked together on police reform as senator booker said during the interview. they are two tall, bald, black
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guys. that's a bond they have. those are his words, not mine. he feels he is somebody underestimated. >> let's hear part of your interview which will play on sunday. >> you have a friendship with senator tim scott. >> yeah. >> someone you said you loved. >> look, i have friendships with tim scott, dan sullivan. i can go through a lot of republicans that i formed legitimately good friendships here. that's the way you get things done is not by vilifying or demonizing people you disagree with, but finding common humanity. tim is a guy that has -- we have a lot of shared life experiences. two big, bald black guys growing up in experience have similar experiences that are bad. run-ins with police officers. experiences that are good. growing up in good black churches. >> what should people who are intrigued by his presidential aspirations know about him? you know him on a personal level. >> i think as i look at this
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republican field, he may be one of those people that is underestimated. >> really interesting. that's such a revealing interview. what else did you talk about with senator booker? >> we spanned the gamut. we talked about courts and court reform. we talked about the debt limit. we also talked a lot about the broken food system. he is on the agricultural committee. it's surprising to people. we talked about mental health and how -- what he feels needs to be done to address the mental health crisis in the country. we went for a run. that was part of our interview. he is someone who is very positive and optimistic. that didn't take when he ran for president. but he does present something that's a little different from a lot of the negativity people hear about and see in politics. >> does he think he might run again? >> i did ask him that question. i will tell you, he certainly left the door open to something
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in the future. >> can't wait to see this interview and the rest of your show. thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> watch the full interview with senator booker "inside with jen psaki" this sunday at noon eastern right here on msnbc. china is raiding u.s. companies in beijing, sending shockwaves through american investors. this is "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us. you are watching msnbc. you are watching msnbc eet pad is super comfortable. it feels like it's barely there. look at how much it holds, and it still stays thin! i've looked at myself in the mirror and i can't see it at all! that's the protection we deserve! i've always had trouble falling asleep and staying asleep— you know, insomnia. at all! but then i found quviviq, an fda-approved medication for adults with insomnia. and i'm glad i found it. you wouldn't believe some of the things people suggested to help me sleep. nature sounds? ahh, no thanks.
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with the g7 nations meeting in japan and preparing to discuss countering china's growing influence, president xi is holding a summit of his own in china with central asian nations. this as his government is cracking down on u.s. companies doing business many china. several raids taking place this month over so-called national security and espionage concerns of theirs. "the wall street journal" reporting today that china's intelligence and state security chief is in charge of the crackdown. one raid on a foreign consulting company was televised on chinese state tv. janis mackey frayer joins us from beijing. what's prompting the raids? this seems like a turn against american investment, which is important as china tries to raise its gdp. >> reporter: exactly. it's put foreign companies on edge here. it's really put foreign companies on edge here, andrea.
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this latest raid saw chinese security agents swoop down on several offices of the business consulting firm. they deal in economic data. this is now material that authorities here see as potentially sensitive, with the expansion of anti-espionage laws. staff were questioned. no word on whether people have been detained. it sent a chill. it is a contradiction, as you point out, to have what seems to be national security considerations trumping the appetite for foreign investment, at a time china is trying to boost the economy as it's coming out of covid. the biggest challenge and certainly the biggest risk for american companies doing business here is that there's just no clarity. there's no transparency around this campaign or the anti-espionage laws. i spoke earlier today with michael hart,
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here. he says that the business community is rattled. >> what we understand is the companies have been targeted were those doing due diligence for potential mergers and acquisitions or collecting data for companies trying to understand the economics around their business. if you can't collect information, how you can run and manage a business? >> reporter: are the raids and these counter-espionage laws a precursor to china wanting to de-couple with the u.s.? >> it's unclear to me what has been driving the raids. we don't think china wants to de-couple. we think they want to de-risk. we think the chinese understand that the cross-border business is critical for both economies. i don't see the chinese having a wide scale de-coupling. >> reporter: officially, the ministry of foreign affairs here commented on the raid saying
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that it was, quote, a normal law enforcement act. also mentioned safeguarding national security. the company hasn't commented on this. neither have the other companies that have been targeted in the past month or so. something that i found interesting in talking with michael hart today, he said that they did a visit back to the u.s. and had several meetings in d.c. with policymakers and also with ceos. they said they heard at least a dozen times from ceos that they want to come to china, but they're afraid to come to china right now. >> that's an ominous note for american business and for china's economy going forward. janis mackey frayer, thanks so much to you. now to italy where at least 14 people have died, thousands have been displaced from their homes after flooding have devastated a northern region of
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the country in last few days. some areas received roughly half of their annual rainfall in 36 hours. we are seeing major devastation from pictures that have been communicated. what are people there experiencing? what you have experienced with the impact here? the farmland, historic buildings and the like. >> after a break from the rain yesterday, most of the water in the area has receded. what it left behind is a trail of death and devastation. this devastation that we see, mainly in countries that are of tropical climates. we are not used to seeing that here in italy. entire towns under water and people being rescued from roofs of their homes with a helicopter. with the break from the rain yesterday, many of the thousands of people who were evacuated in
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the past few days managed at least to go back to their towns, to their homes, to start to clean up and clear out the debris. the mud especially that the flooding left behind, helped by hundreds of young volunteers. it's not private property that was damaged -- not only private property damaged. also, the economy was really damaged because that region in the north of italy is a highly productive farming region. a lot of farmers have lost the crops and their animals and livelihoods. >> terrible devastation in the aftermath. thank you very much. the solemn good-bye in new york. a family is laying the subway chokehold victim jordan neely to rest today. the latest from harlem coming up next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. mitchell reports." this is msnbc. introducing purple's new mattresses
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mourners gathered in harlem to remember jordan neely, the homeless man who died earlier this month after being put in a chokehold on the subway. daniel penny, a marine veteran, restrained him after he allegedly threatened passengers. penny was later arrested on a second degree manslaughter charge. his lawyers insist he never meant to hurt neely. however, his family says that he was experiencing a mental health episode and did not deserve to die.
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reverend al sharpton delivering the eulogy a short time ago. >> jordan was not annoying someone on the train. jordan was screaming for help. [ applause ] we keep criminalizing people with mental illness. people keep criminalizing people that need help. they don't need abuse. they need help. >> nbc's rehema ellis is outside the church in harlem. nbc has been reporting on this. there's so much pain on all sides here. rehema, tell us about the family and the funeral. >> reporter: andrea, i can it will you it was, as you said, a
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very solemn time for this family. they spent an hour inside this church remembering 30-year-old jordan neely. reverend al sharpton did, in his eulogy, carry the message for the family. he said we are angry because you keep choking us to death. we won't stop until we change the nation, until we change the city, until the jordans of america get help. one of the things that the family was saying over and over again is that everyone has someone in their family suffering from mental illness. it's so important that this country address that. the mayor of the city says he is going to do it. the governor of the state says she's appointing or appropriating a billion dollars to that. people want to see it materialize. they want more action and not just talk. andrea? >> rehema ellis, thank you so much, from new york. road to surrender. the new book about the end of
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world war ii. president biden makes a historic visit to hiroshima with the g7. that's coming up next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. a mitchell reports" only on msnbc.
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who have found the right way to lose weight and get healthier with golo. today in japan, president biden and g-7 leaders met with a survivor of the atomic bomb that destroyed hiroshima august 6th. she was 8 years old playing outside her home when the bomb fell knocking her unconscious.
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78 years later, she's now 86 years old and still working as a translator and a peace activist dedicating to keeping the survivor's stories alive. today's g-7 summit is highlighting efforts to rid the world of nuclear weapons. joining me now is news week's former washington bureau chief historian evan thomas, the author of so many books, but the new book is "road to surrender: three men and the countdown to the end of world war ii." i learned so much from your book already. it's just fascinating about the painful distress on the deciders, on, you know, henry stimpson. >> he would refer to the atom bomb as the awful, terrible. they knew how terrible this thing was, but they felt they had to use it because there's no choice. the japanese were just determined to fight to the
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bitter, bloody end, and an invasion of japan would have cost hundreds of thousands of american lives and millions of japanese lives. >> and that be controversial, of course, for decades, but you've done the research on the japanese side also with, you know, the profile of togo, and so you're basically profiling three key men. >> yeah. togo -- nobody's ever heard of him. he's the japanese foreign minister who helped persuade the emperor to throw in the towel. the word surrender was forbidden in the japanese government. they were determined to fight until there was no japan left. why? part of it's a strange death wish, but also they wanted to get good terms. they didn't want to have an occupation, and they thought if they could make the united states bleed, they could make us really suffer, we'd give up. togo, who's this sort of gentleman, knew this war was going to go on forever and japan would perish. he and a little group around him helped persuade the emperor to surrender. they do this at great risk.
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togo was running the risk of assassination. on the last night before they surrender, there's a coup attempt in the palace. there's soldiers running through the palace to destroy the recordings of the emperor's voice, his surrender speech. fortunately the speech was hidden in a bag in a room reserved for the ladies in waiting. it was that close of the war just going on. >> and you write about henry stimpson, you said that the effort almost killed henry stimson, on the morning stimson had a small heart attack and after he presented the president with the first ever plan to control nuclear weapons, he had a major heart attack. he was physically frail to be sure, but his diaries show he was also suffering from existential anguish. >> well, imagine, imagine that you are in the position of having to -- the moral choice. i mean, we live in an age now where, you know, i'm right, you're wrong.
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everybody's performing their moral virtue. in the real world of world war ii, there's a lot of moral ambiguity. these are men deciding to kill thousands of people in the hopes of saving more people. they did, japan was about to have a famine among other things. they probably saved way more japanese than americans and more chinese, but who thinks these decisions are simple? they're not. the people who were involved in it were deeply stressed out. stimson has a heart attack, on the morning he shows the photographs of what hiroshima looks like to the president of the united states, he has a heart attack. a month later he has a bigger heart attack. the stress was unbelievable. >> you know, when you talk about the moral ambiguity, even in world war ii where millions of people were dying in death camps in europe, there was a decision by the americans, as i recall, not to bomb the rail lines. it was a big push even by jewish
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advocates, fdr bombed the tracks, so you can't bring people to the death camps, and they didn't want to do that because -- >> they made a lot of decisions like this. they agonized over them for years. john mccloy was tormented by this. you know, there were -- there are often in war -- one reason why you don't want to get into war is because it forces you to make decisions you don't want to make. it's easy to get into wars. it's very hard to end wars. and people will have to do -- we're going to go through this in ukraine. we're going to probably have to make some grim compromise that everybody's going to hate to get out of the thing. the alternative is worse. >> evan thomas, you're remarkable. you've done it again, and it's a gripping read. these profiles of individual people who were historic figures, but we didn't -- some of us didn't know that much about. >> thank you, andrea. >> thank you so much for coming on. >> fun to write. >> fun to read.
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thank you very much, and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show online, on facebook, and on twitter @mitchellreports. thanks for being with us. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪ good day i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. they don't need abuse, they need help. the emotional plea on behalf of the homeless and mentally ill from the pulpit at jordan neely's funeral. the 30-year-old a victim of a broken system long before his death on a new york subway. plus, going to great lengths, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy traveling more miles and further from home than he has in many years to get some help in his own backyard. the latest on his personal pitch to world leaders just as the u.s. announces a major new move to help. and trying to plug