we don't have time for lag or buffering. who doesn't want internet that helps a.i. do your homework even faster. come again. -sorry, what was that? introducing the next generation 10g network only from xfinity. >> that is all the time we have the future starts now. for today. i'm american voices alicia menendez. thank you for spending part of your day with us. -- that's at alicia on msnbc. that's how you will know like things -- are sisters in law our tomorrow -- sometimes, in place. but now i turn it over to charles blow, who is in tonight for ayman tonight. >> hello, and welcome to ayman. -- plus, stunning allegations in the new lawsuit against rudy giuliani plus --

accusations of bribes and an inside look at his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. then fighting back -- with the free speech organization that is soon to block ron desantis's efforts to ban books in florida schools. i'm charles blow in for ayman moyhyeldin. let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ this week, the facts finally caught up to two republican-led smear campaigns. let's start with the mess that was thursday's hearing on the so-called weaponization of the federal government. for months now, chairman jim jordan has promised testimony from, quote, dozens of whistleblowers on how the fbi is unfairly persecuting conservatives. and yet, just hours before jordan's promised blockbuster hearing on that very issue was set to begin, the fbi made a shocking revelation. two of the three self proclaimed whistleblowers who are set to testify have had

this security clearances revoked over a question about their allegiance to the united states, reported criminal conduct, personal misconduct, and their handling of sensitive information. so when the hearing began, it quickly descended into chaos. with democratic members on the subcommittee repeatedly calling out chairman jordan for violating house rules by withholding alleged evidence he had gathered. >> where is the whistleblower exception in the rules of congress? >> it's the prerogative of the committee to decide. >> no, it's not. it's the rules of the house. >> we have the whistleblower testimony, the whistleblower's not available to be made to the democrats at this time. >> the whistleblower doesn't make committee rules, sir. >> jordan isn't just humiliating himself with these stunts. as msnbc's steve bannon's points out, he's also inadvertently proving the opposite of his intended point. quote, by trying and failing to

make a case against the bureau, jordan is effectively giving the fbi a clean bill of political health. jim jordan's sham hearing wasn't the only public embarrassment to republicans suffer this week. the justice department finally released a long awaited report on the fbi's handling of the russian investigation from special counsel john durham. for years, trump supporters have been eagerly awaiting -- hopeful he would uncover and the trump deep state conspiracy. however, after nearly four years, 490 interviews and -- of 1 million documents -- investigation ended with a whimper. the top lines from the 306-page report? prosecution, one guilty plea and no new revelations and although durham accused the fbi of confirmation bias nowhere in the report does he actually allege that political bias or partisanship with the garden

factors -- despite this, of course, republicans are lifting up -- as the smoking gun they have been waiting for and that is because the republican party does not deal in reality anymore and the truth is both this week both jordan and -- i failed miserably. and their claims otherwise are not rooted in fact, only in feelings. let's discuss with michael steele, former rnc chairman and msnbc analyst. and david henderson, a civil rights attorney and cnbc contributor, and katie benner, national reporter at the new york times, and msnbc contributor. katie benner, what can you tell us about this self-described whistleblower situation put forth this week? >> yeah, so, according to the fbi that whistleblowers themselves were involved in january 6th and ways that were concerning to the bureau. that one witness --

he was at the capitol on january 6th. who is in affected areas. he was in places where he should not have been. and when asked about it by the fbi, he gave false testimony. so -- they felt this was extremely concerning and they revoked his security clearance. another was of the whistleblower's have made statements in public and on social media that allude to the fact that he doesn't believe that the bureau itself has done incredible work. and so you have witnesses that are in opposition to the -- they work with this is concerning particularly vis-à-vis the events of january 6th. this is -- so, for many people, this is a blow to their credibility but not for jim jordan. >> david, i'm going to play for you another exchange from the hearing. here's democratic congressman dan goldman. he's questioning, so-called, whistleblowers over there connection to trump whistleblower kash patel. >> mr. boyle do you know who cash patel's? >> i do. >> have you received any money

from cash patel or his organization? >> i have. what >> about you mr. friend, do you know about cash patel as well? did you receive any money from kash patel? >> -- suspended man trying to feed his family and he reach out to me and said he wanted to give me a donation. >> so, if you follow the money, as goldman is asking us to do right here, what does it tell us about the possible motivations of these witnesses? >> one word, charles, why is. this is always an issue in any court proceeding. you have to make a determination, which is why you are there, but you also have to make a determination each of the way about whether this you can rely on what you can't, especially when it is coming out of someone's mouth. so, building back out of what katie just said, we've -- first problem is they've got a beef with their employer that they are here to offer evidence against. in addition to that, losing their security clearance. that's also a reason to question. how reliable their testimony is

-- that then you get to the point where they're also receiving money which further prove that they are biased. in terms of the testimony they're offering -- and they don't have the good sense to just say, yes, i got paid. that's what you do to shut the questioning down. when you start trying to dodge the question, you just make it look worse. because it looks like not only where you paid, but you know that that's a problem in the context of the testimony that you're being asked to offer. it goes back to the point of how ridiculous these proceedings were overall. >> michael, did jordan's performance during these hearings actually help democrats prove their point that the only party weaponizing the government's the republican party? >> every time jordan opens his mouth he proves that point. the reality of it is there is no substance to any of this. this is just the dog and pony show. that's a lot -- it's like the worst you can come up with in a world where you make stuff up. and so you're trying to connect dots that don't exist. you're grasping at little lines

of this, little line over here about something else. and none of it ever comes together. so, this idea of weaponization of the government is being done by the very people who are supposed to be investigating weaponization by, i guess the biden administration? because didn't all this occurred during trump's term in office? it was his justice department and fbi. so, it just kind of proves the point. so, you are mad that trump? jim jordan, are you mad at trump? are you mad at mr. barr? who are you mad at? what are you trying to -- where was the weaponization against trump's own people by trump? because that's what basically we're looking at here. >> right. >> katie, let's switch gears to the durham report. what can you tell us about the special counsel's finding? and are we missing any bombshells that in misreading this report as a -- cooper and the dad dud?

>> -- as you said, at the top of the program, to veiled prosecutions and one fail deeply. -- already been fined by biden's inspector general and in many ways it doubles down on and underscores biden's -- inspector general a few years ago when trump was still in office that there were issues that the fbi vis-à-vis the russia investigation. at that point, the inspector general found that people working on the russian investigation, they were moving too quickly. they were not careful. there was, you know, there was -- there were problems with applications to surveil a trump campaign advisor. these things were known. nobody thought, thanks to the inspector general, that the russian investigation was perfect. so what we've seen with the durham report is basically, he's saying the same exact thing. he saying, absolutely, these things were problems. what was so interesting is that in the prosecutions he really wanted to say, if there was criminal behavior, vis-à-vis

the way that the campaign -- conduct themselves, particularly hillary clinton's campaign, he lost a trial. nobody believed that. where the report, he still says it's a problem. he still says that the weaponization of opposition research, trying to make it into an investigation, trying to get reporters to cover it as such, what's wrong, and we can debate that. but as a political question, what do we want our campaigns to do? how do we want them conducted? but at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, was that worth the four-year investigation? was it worth the money and the time and the effort? and was it worth the sort of constant drumbeat conspiracy theories that were in the ether as he was conducting this extremely long investigation? and what's so interesting, is if you look at the response from the republicans, especially online, they're extremely disappointed in this report. and they really feel like he did not do a good job, because he was not able to stand up the things they wanted him to find. >> david, i want you to weigh in on that. if what durham is basically doing is putting forth already

found, misconduct that somebody else already found and impacting that as the lead of his four, it is a day dud to you? >> 100%. this is saying in the law -- when the law is not on your side, you argue the facts. when the facts aren't on your side, you argue the law. when neither the law nor the facts are on your side, you pound on the table and you yell as loud as you can. this is 306 pages of pounding on the table and yelling as loud as you can. here's what it all comes down to, some people are going to be upset about me saying this. but prosecutors aren't supposed to lose. you're supposed to be able to prove your case beyond the reasonable doubt. any time prosecutor loses a case, the question should be asked, why was this case tried in the first place? that's not to say you're going to win every case, and that's not to say you shouldn't try cases that a jury is not going to convict on. but he lost not once, but twice after four years of investigating. which means he is averaging less than a case per year.

and here's something that is easy to overlook. there aren't unlimited prosecutorial resources. every case a prosecutor invests time into investigating, or trying, is justice that someone else can't receive. because resources are being tied up. there's absolutely nothing to show for the work that he did here, except wasted money, and a classic lawyer trick that we see in civil cases. when you can't make your case, you just try to make good on paper hoping that other people argue it for you. and opinions and prosecutions aren't. evidence is. there's a dearth of it here. >> panel, please stick around. next, a formal employee files a bomb shell lawsuit against rudy giuliani that includes an alleged cash for pardon scheme. ♪ ♪ ♪ the gardener... that... aren't so basic. the entertainer... her place might look expensive.

don't let it fool you. and me, the lounger... i get just what i need with a tap on the wayfair app. get outdoorsy for way less at wayfair. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ (cheering) imagine you're doing something you love. rsv could cut it short. rsv is a contagious virus that usually causes mild symptoms, but can cause more severe infections that may lead to hospitalizations, in adults 60 and older - and adults with certain underlying conditions, like copd, asthma, or congestive heart failure. talk to your doctor and visit cutshortrsv.com. why give your family just any eggs when they can enjoy the best? eggland's best. the only eggs with more fresh and delicious taste. plus, superior nutrition. which is now more important than ever. only eggland's best.

♪ which is now more important than ever. (vo) adventure on a deeper level. the subaru forester wilderness. dog tested. dog approved. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. up at 2:00am again? tonight, try pure zzzs all night. unlike other sleep aids, our extended release melatonin helps you sleep longer. and longer. zzzquil pure zzzs all night. fall asleep. stay asleep. having diabetes can raise a lot of questions. like my morning ride. will it help lower my glucose? with the freestyle libre 2 system you can know where your glucose level is and where it's headed. without fingersticks.

manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. ask your doctor about the freestyle libre 2 system. now widely covered by medicare for patients managing diabetes with insulin. visit freestylelibre.us/medicare to learn more. >> in a wide-ranging lawsuit,

rudy giuliani's former employees alleging he sexually assaulted her, refused to pay her wages, made sexist, racist, and antisemitic remarks.

and discussed selling presidential pardons. giuliani spokesman said he, quote, unequivocally denies the allegations. noelle dunphy was first hired by giuliani in 2019 when he was serving as donald trump's personal lawyer. the lawsuit also alleges he offered her a salary of $1 million per year, but only paid her $12,000 during her work after two years. dunphy is now seeking $10 million in -- punitive damages. the suit comes only days after manhattan jury found trump liable of sexual abuse and defamation -- and ordered him to pay e. jean carroll $5 million in damages. my panel is back. katie, i want to start with you. you are part of the team at the new york times that wanna pulitzer in 2018 for reporting on workplace sexual harassment issues. given your reporting on this issue, what stood out the most to you about dunphy's case? >> you know, a couple things stood out.

for one, she's very specific in her claims. she did spend a lot of time with giuliani. i think a lot of this will come down to if she, as e. jean carroll did, in court, bring really compelling evidence of giuliani's behavior towards her. what he promised, whether he was dangling money in front of her, in order to receive sexual favors. what's interesting about carroll, is she is not claiming coercion, she was actually claiming sexual assault. she was the presidents own words against him including his assertion that he could sexually assault people because he was famous. so, it will be interesting to see what dunphy has done for the courts. another thing that stands out to me is that in addition to making claims of sexual harassment she says that rudy giuliani spoke openly with her about things like using pardons in political ways, at the end of the trump presidency, things that we've reported on and we know happened. but it's interesting that she

could have more compelling evidence on this matter as well. again, it would be fascinating to see what comes out in court. >> michael, let's stay on this issue of selling the parties. that's part of the lawsuit. we know that in the hours before trump left office he pardoned 74 people, and change changed the sentences of 70 others. how concerning is that to you that now president, former president trump is trying to be president again in 2024? >> well, that's concerning just on its face. with or without this particular controversy, it's concerning for all of the reasons we know well. i think what this particular allegation raises is just a continuing concern about how donald trump used the oval office in such a transactional way. and not for the benefit of the american people, not for the benefit of our allies. but for himself. his own benefit. the fact that rudy giuliani is

probably bragging about this at some point with this young woman, trying to impress her. and cajole her into whatever he wanted to cajole her into. by saying this is what we are doing. it opens a big door. investigatively speaking. i think it's something that we are going to hear and see a lot more about, particularly if she has any evidence that she can put forward that actually corroborates that to what was just said. >> david, let's talk about that evidence a little bit. and these pardon allegations. dunphy's attorney has said that there is no recording of these conversations -- unlike the alleged racist and sexist remarks he made. they're instead trying to corroborate this with another witness who is, lev parnas, who is also a former employee of giuliani's and who has himself been sentenced to prison for campaign fraud and finance

crimes. how solid you think this particular charge is going to be? >> that's difficult to answer, charles, until we hear more from these people. but let me make this clear. we have to talk about this in two separate contexts. the specific context in terms of what it means legally, but then we also have to talk about it in the context of what this means in the overall makeup of this case. and in that context, giuliani has a couple problems here. the first one is, juries don't like lawyers. plain and simple. they barely like us when we're standing up in front of them arguing. they definitely don't like us when we are on trial. the only thing they like less than lawyers are liars. by the time this case gets to trial, there are going to be any number of things that can be used to -- giuliani based on his credibility, his ability to testify truthfully. now, the law is a game of nerves. add to that, we start talking about him selling pardons, we're not just talking about how that comes up in the context of the courtroom at that this case may be tried. on it also means a lot of people have a vested interest in preventing him from talking and preparing this case from moving forward. which means there's going to be pressure on him to resolve it

sooner rather than later. >> katie, dunphy's lawsuit comes right after the verdict in the e. jean carroll case, which ruled in her favor, by the way. will you see that maybe as a motivating factor for dunphy to come forward? and could this be a new phase of the metoo movement, kind of a the two just phase? >> i would want to get into dunphy's head or talk about her motivations. just based on her complaint, she feels that she is owed money, and that she was miss treated. so, i will leave it there. but it is interesting to your point, is there going to be a new phase of litigation around mistreatment and around sexual battery, sexual misconduct in the workplace? we already have laws in many places that say you cannot sexually arrests people in the workplace. now, this is what we have seen in new york. that victims can, sort of, revive their claims against people who they say are either

assailants or have somehow wronged them. and try to find a financial solution. so what will be interesting here is to see whether or not rudy giuliani believes that there is something he really needs to put behind him. and he believes so much so that he ends up settling and paying this woman money. maybe not the amount she's actually asked for, but some amount to resolve the claim. and yes, i think if we see these claims resolved in this way, where significant payments were or made, i think that it is possible that victims will say, this is a way to settle something that felt to them like a real harm. >> panel, please stick around. coming up, a man is charged after allegedly attacking two of congressman gerry connolly's staffers with a baseball bat. ♪ ♪

make your dream car...a reality. mercedes-benz certified pre-owned vehicles are rigorously inspected to live up to the highest of expectations. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. ♪ music playing upstairs ♪ we'll be here. ♪ so you can be there. everything from vitamin a to vitamin zs delivered in 1 hour.

your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire at t-mobile, your business will save over $1000 bucks. what are you going to do with it? i could use a new sign. woooo! alright... ♪ soundproof windows. a new chair. save more than $1000 bucks versus verizon. and now, get the new samsung galaxy s23 plus free with no trade-in required.

your bug spray should take out bugs, not keep out people. unlike other sprays that stick around, zevo goes from kill to clean in just seconds, plus it's safe for use around people and pets. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. i was injured in a car crash. i had no idea how much my case was worth. i called the barnes firm. >> a bat wielding a man accused when a truck hit my son, i had so many questions about his case. i called the barnes firm. it was the best call i could've made. your case is often worth more than insuran

call the barnes firm to find out i could've made. what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys ♪ call one eight hundred,est resul eight million ♪ of attacking two staffers at the virginia district office of

democratic congressman, gary connally, is now facing a federal charge of assaulting a federal employee. that's in addition to multiple local charges he's facing, including aggravated malicious wounding. the suspect's motive is unclear. but we know that he chained to the office specifically looking for the congressman. according to a newly filed affidavit by an fbi agent, the attacker told staffers, quote, i'm going to kill you, you're going to die. one of the staffers claimed the man struck her about eight times with a metal baseball that. this all follows an alarming rise in politically motivated acts of violence from the january 6th insurrection, to the violent attack on paul pelosi last fall. this week, capitol police said that threats against members of congress have gone up 400% in just the last six years. let's bring back my panel. michael, congressman connally spoke with nicole wallace on this network about how the heated rhetoric we have seen in d. c. can lead to and empower this kind of violence.

take a listen to this. >> anything that normalizes violence as a part of our policy, it's absolutely wrong. it's inimical to constitutional democracy. and needs to be condemned on a bipartisan basis. unfortunately, we are allowed a creeping sense of, well, some of that is okay. some of that is just hyperbolic rhetoric. no, that counter rhetoric empowers action. >> michael, what needs to change here? >> well, what needs to change is the people who empower the rhetoric. that leads to the actions. this is a sleeping issue because a lot of people don't think it's going to happen. you see these things and you

make these exhortations publicly. but at the end of the day, you're not giving any consideration that there is some person out there who is going to take very seriously your call to arms. your call to violence. you don't think you are making that call, but that is how they are hearing it. that is one. two, to the congressman's very important point, for me, the leadership has to rise within both parties to make sure that we put this rhetoric down. unfortunately, republicans are not doing that. you have the president of the united states, still out here perpetuating lies about january 6th. still, fomenting animosities towards the agencies of the federal government. the agents of the federal government. other institutions, because he's agreed. that is then translated for his supporters into taking actions like this. i think we have a ways to go, charles, on this front, because not everybody is taking it seriously.

until it happens to other members, certainly those on the republican side, i don't see a change. you would think they would learn from the shooting of congressman scalise, for example. but here we are. >> david, the capitol police are looking to increase their amount of field officers it has around the country to investigate and handle threats to members of congress. what does that say about our current country that this even needs to happen? >> you know what it says, really, charles, that the rule of law has been suspended by some lawmakers in favor of political violence. this has been happening, let's tie it back to our first segment. talking about january 6th. but if you look at specific examples that happened in other context, the mccloskey's, standing on their lawn and brandished firearms to threaten protesters. they plead guilty. not only does their governor pardon them, but then they get featured at the republican national convention. what message does that send? you also have situations here in texas, where someone was

convicted for murdering a black lives matter protester. our governor has said that as soon as the paperwork hits his desk, he intends to pardon that person. then, not to mention situations like kyle rittenhouse, where it's one thing to celebrate the acquittal, if you happen to agree with it. but celebrating the fact that he shot and killed someone is something else entirely. we're seeing progressively more of that. we're also seeing bringing this back to the capitol police, efforts by republican lawmakers in florida to combat proactive measures to keep people safe, and all of this is happening at a time where legally it is never been easier to own, possess, and use a firearm. >> katie, what do you make of the 400% uptick in threats against members of congress? which i just find to be a striking number. >> you know, it's a huge number. i think we can draw a thread from the very first statement of the show to what we are

talking about now. in terms of violence to against politicians. i think what we forget is that democracy, it was built around the constitution. but it survives because of trust and faith in government. that trust and faith in government is being eroded every day. we talked about jim jordan, there was a lot of discussion about what he was saying, it did not make sense, it was observed et cetera. that messaging is not for democrats. that messaging is for republicans. that messaging is received very differently. it is believed, and at the root of that message, he is saying, you cannot trust your institutions. they are not for you, and they are trying to undermine democracy. we are seeing more and more of that rhetoric. as we see that take hold, what you're going to see is that people believe that there is nothing legitimate about what is happening right now in politics. and it paves the way for people thinking violence is then a justifiable response to a world where you can't believe your leaders. so, i think that when we talk about things like what happened at that hearing the other day, we have to hear it not from

this, not just from the point of view of, oh that was so absurd. who could possibly believe that? but to really understand that people do believe that. until there is a desire for something other than just raw power in politics, we are going to see more and more of this violence. that's where i see that 400% number coming from. >> michael, i have a personal question for you. you've been in politics a very long time. if you are starting today, considering a career in politics with how much danger and threats politicians are facing, would you make the same choice? >> it would be very hard. in fact, it's interesting you asked that question. i'm having that conversation with a number of individuals who are considering a run for office. for public office. what we are finding, what i'm finding, is that they are kind of like, oh, i don't know. their families are adamantly

no. for a lot of reasons that katie just mentioned. and david talked about, that people, that the environment is so toxic. so poisonous. the number of people we know in politics who are threatened, who are receiving voicemails that you could not play on this air. because it's so vile. and so offensive. people feel, they could do that with impunity. largely, because the politicians say it is okay. there is no repercussions for it. the system has never had to deal with it and confront it. so, as families and individuals who are looking to move into the public square assess this, a lot of them are assessing to stay out. at least the ones who would actually be really good public servants. right? so what we are going to be left with, are the folks you don't want in office. [laughter] right? they are the ones who are buying a lot of the crap that is being sold right now about a lot of these institutions. that's why they want to come to

washington to clean it up and own the libs, et cetera. not about public service. >> truly, a sad state of affairs. really bad for democracy. michael steele, david henderson, katie benner. thank you all for your time. next, a free speech organization and the country's large's book publisher sues a school district in round desantis's florida. santis's florida when i first noticed symptoms, which kept coming and going, i should have gone to the doctor. instead, i tried to let it pass. if you experience irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, you should talk to your doctor. afib increases the risk of stroke about 5 times. when it comes to your health, this is no time to wait. (man) it's pretty simple. i kinda just want things the way i want them. (woman) i want a network that won't let me down. even up here!

(woman #2) with an unlimited plan that's truly right for me. (woman #3) with verizon's new myplan, i get exactly what i want. and only pay for what i need. (man #2) now i'm in charge... ...of my plan. (vo) introducing myplan from verizon, the first and only plan where you choose what goes in, from apple music to disney bundle. so you get exactly what you want and only pay for what you need. and it all starts at just $30. on the network you want. because it's your verizon. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. dove men invited dermatologists to test new advanced care body washes that start solving skin issues in the shower. it's a very great way to control your breakouts. for my clients with dry skin, i absolutely recommend this product. new dove men advanced care body washes. life... doesn't stop for diabetes. be ready for every moment, with glucerna.

it's the number one doctor recommended brand that is scientifically designed to help manage your blood sugar. live every moment. glucerna. >> the constitution guarantees

a freedom to read. that's what a correlation of plaintiffs are arguing in their lawsuit against a florida school district. publishing giant, penguin random house, along with parents, authors, and nonprofit groups around america are suing a -- county school district and -- about race and the lgbtq community. the lawsuit alleges a removal land restriction of these books violates the first and 14th amendments. they are asking for the books to be returned, for the district to be prohibited from removing them again. a slew of new desantis back to state laws have educators second guessing what kind of reading materials they can keep on their shelves. from the so-called, don't say gay, bill, that bans classroom discussions about sexual orientation and gender identity. to a hv 1647, a law requiring all schoolbooks to be cataloged and submitted for state review. can american ceo, suzanne nossel, joins me now.

suzanne, your organization issued a report in april finding a 28% increase in book banning during the first half of this school year alone. and we know that florida is one of the states with the most bands. so why are you suing escambia county, specifically, as a strategy to challenge on a county by county basis. >> look, escambia county is emblematic of the pattern that we see across the country. with books being taken off shelves, in the case of escambia, at the cost of a single individual who has filled out forms objecting to up to 100 books. it's quite clear, i don't think she's read the books. she's drawing on information that is being provided by national organizations. the critiques of these books, objections to the books, are exactly what we see in other jurisdictions. and the school board has

overridden, time and again, the considered opinions of its own review panel. a body that it has empowered to actually read the challenge books. to make it considered evaluation, do these belong in school libraries and classrooms or not? the panel has found value in these books, and yet the school board has swept their decision aside. overridden it, and taken the books away. it's just a really agree just, almost eye-popping example of this broader national pattern. we are hoping that courts assessing this lawsuit will recognize that first and 14th amendment rights are being violated. and that school districts across the country will take notice. and put the books back on the shelf without having to be sued themselves. >> a member of the escambia school board told nbc news, that he was surprised by the lawsuit, because they were simply following state law that was set by the desantis administration. what is your response to that? >> look, these laws that have been passed are very vague. that is one of the most

troubling aspects, the don't say gay law is not very specific about whether a book like uncle bobby's wedding can remain on a classroom shelf. some say yes, some say no. that's how censorship works. it casts a paw. people are wondering about whether a certain book could get them into trouble. could it result in complaints or discipline? there's definitely a relationship between the legislation that has been passed at the state level. i think it's perhaps understandable that some local officials feel like they are just following the law. but if that's the way this law works, then it too is violating the first and 14th amendments. >> the escambia school board voted to fire superintendent tim smith this week, in part, because of his lack of initiative in removing books from the shelves. so now, even leaders who are aggressive in their book banning efforts are being fired. what is your reaction to that? >> it is deeply troubling. it's a regime of intimidation,

where children are the victims. we are teaching children that books are dangerous. that the right response to a book that you may not like, or may disagree with, is not to argue it back or to recommend a different book, or to discuss what's wrong with the book, but instead to take the book away. to us, an organization that is devoted to freedom of expression, this interferes fundamentally with children's right to read. with the first amendment provision that allows us not just to express ourselves, speak our minds, but also to receive and impart information. so for an administrator to be punished in this way, simply for trying to give children access to books, that's even part of the complaint against him, i think it's profoundly disturbing. >> i want to follow up on that, you said that the rights at stake here, interconnected from a child's right to read to a publishers right to distribute

books, if these book bans continue across the country, how will they impact, not only a children's knowledge of varying ideas and stories, but also the publishing industry writ large? >> it's very troubling. we see patterns, particularly in florida where they are scrutinizing textbooks and rejecting certain textbooks. as well as books for classroom and school. libraries. overtime, if that pattern continues -- it's going to affect what publishers are putting out. what is available, not just in florida, but to all of us. these books are sold nationally. the textbooks are distributed nationally. so we want free reigning access to ideas, which has been a bedrock of american society. everything is on the table. we debate, we go back and forth, we don't take ideas out of bounds. so, for publishers, it's very troubling. they are seeking to vindicate their own rights. we've got authors in the lawsuit who also have rights to

reach audiences. to express their ideas, and distribute their works. we've come together to say, we all have a stake in what's happening in schools in escambia county and across the country. >> so suzanne nossel, we'll keep track of this case. we'll keep track of this case. it's a fascinating case. >> thanks charles, great to see you. >> president biden mixed news overseas by backing a plan to train ukrainian pilots on f-16's. o f-16's that's why herbal essences is packed with naturally derived plant ingredients you love, and none of the stuff you don't. our sulfate-free collections smell incredible... ♪ and leave your hair touchably soft and smooth. ♪ herbal essences

when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today.

(wheezing) asthma isn't pretty. it's the moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. because one dose a day helps keep my asthma symptoms under control. and with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy helps improve lung function so i can breathe easier for a full 24 hours. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. trelegy contains a medicine that increases risk of hospitalizations and death from asthma problems when used alone. when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid, like in trelegy, there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase risk of thrush and infections. get emergency care for serious allergic reactions. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ♪ what a wonderful world. ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - because breathing should be beautiful.

(vo) when it comes to safety, who has more iihs top safety pick plus awards, ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - the highest level of safety you can earn? subaru. when it comes to longevity, who has the highest percentage of its vehicles still on the road after ten years? subaru. and when it comes to value, which brand has the lowest cost of ownership, lower than toyota, honda, or hyundai? subaru. it's easy to love a car you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> president joe biden is in

hiroshima japan for the g7 summit this weekend. meeting with world leaders and participating in talks on a range of issues. perhaps, none more pressing than russia's war in the ukraine. he made news on that front yesterday. in a stark turnaround, the u. s. is now in support of a joint international effort to train ukrainian pilots on modern fighter aircraft, including f-16s and other jets.

the training will take place outside of ukrainian site in europe. a dramatic development in the united cause against russia. joining me now is -- an msnbc foreign affairs contributor and senior vice president for asia and the korean chair at the center for strategic and international studies. dr. cha, what's your reaction to this, that the u.s. is now in support of a joint effort by allies to train ukrainian pilots on modern fighter aircrafts, including f-16s. >> it's a big deal, charles. i mean, i think the ukrainians and zelenskyy have been asking for this for quite some time. as he put it to defend the skies in ukraine. the united states, the biden administration was reluctant to do that. largely because they didn't want to escalate the war with russia. so this is a big step in the united states in conjunction with the uk, a couple of other countries, denmark and belgium,

i think. we'll have to train these pilots. of course, the next question will be who will provide f-16s to the ukrainians? that will be the next shoe that will drop in this very big and significant military move. >> why do you think that biden changed his mind, and do you see it as an escalation in the conflict? >> i don't see it as an escalation in the conflict, i think it was a right venue in which to do this. the g7 meeting, the rich market democracies of the world, at one point russia was a part of it. and china was certainly one of the countries that was often discussed. now, we are in a situation where these market democracies are coming together and they're making a very powerful statement about the willingness to defend ukraine, and not let the russians win here. because it's a fight, not just for ukraine, but for the broader, liberal international order. so i don't see it as an escalation, i see it as an important, and very definitive step by these countries, to support ukraine.

>> yesterday the u.s. and its allies issued a fresh slate of sanctions on russia. in a response, russia raised a list of 500 americans now banned from the country. including barack obama, several u.s. senators, even comedian stephen colbert. what do you make of their response? >> the russian response is tit-for-tat. i think it's more symbolic than anything else. yes, i think the g7 countries are coming together in terms of sanctions on russia. i know the united states wants to announce a new package of sanctions, but it's also about sanctions enforcement. again, these countries, japan, the uk, france, italy, germany, canada, and the united states, are members of the g7. they have a lot of sanctions they can put on russia. it's a matter of also enforcing them. half the battle with sanctions is following through. it's not just announcing them. i think part of the purpose of the g7 dialogue is to ensure the countries are doing their best to enforce the sanctions. >> so, have you been surprised, as many people have, that now

more than a year into the war, both international and domestic support for the war in ukraine remains pretty united? there's some far-right republican rhetoric, but kevin mccarthy, just a few weeks ago in israel, came out swinging in support of the ukrainian cause. >> i mean, i'm not surprised. i think there's a general understanding. of course, i'm in washington d. c.. i have a different, there's a different group in d. c., compared to the rest of the country. but i think the rest of the country has a general understanding that this is about more than just ukraine. russia, in addition to china, are posing a real threat to the liberal international order. the world as we know it, the world as the countries in the g7 know it. this is a fight that cannot be lost. i think there is a general understanding that if this fight is lost, it will change the way the world operates. it could affect every day

american lives. it doesn't surprise me that that support level is there. i'm happy to see that it's there. >> you invoked china, can i just stay on that for a second? let's talk about that at a topic at the g7. it's increased aggression lately from china. what do you make of that? what can you tell us about that? >> so, i think where the g7 countries are really going to focus is not so much on the military threat in the taiwan straight, but i think where they're going to focus on is china's use of economic coercion. china has a huge market, and they use that market to try to leverage other countries. they have used economic coercion in the past decade against 18 countries and over 100 companies. private companies. to try to get what they want. i think this coming together of these major market democracies. they've also invited six other countries, in addition to the g7 to be here. we'll really focus on how these countries, the g7 plus these additional six, can encounter, can deter chinese economic coercion. it is destroying the liberal trading order.

>> victor cha, thank you so much. and you, stick around, second hour of ayman is next. f ayman is next. make your dream car...a reality. mercedes-benz certified pre-owned vehicles are rigorously inspected to live up to the highest of expectations. so diabetes, this changes things, huh? hey, a lot of people in your corner including walgreens. but do i have to give up sweets? if you work out a diet plan, nothing is off limits. you dropped it! i don't know if i can afford all these prescriptions. we've got discount programs, you've got options. i'm just glad i have you to talk to about this. that's what i'm here for.

the cgm, still getting used to it. let's take a look. when you need to talk diabetes, our pharmacists are here. at t-mobile, your business will save over $1000 bucks. what are you going to do with it? i could use a new sign. woooo! alright... ♪ soundproof windows. a new chair. save more than $1000 bucks versus verizon. and now, get the new samsung galaxy s23 plus free with no trade-in required.

(♪ music ♪) free with no (♪ ♪) (♪ ♪) where could reinvention take your business? accenture. let there be change. >> coming up on the second hour

of ayman, the fate of medication abortion access in the hands of partisan conservative judges dent rejecting republican debt limit plan. naacp president joins me to discuss his plea to congress, and major losses for election deniers. there has been severe upsets at the ballot box this week. i am charles blow in for ayman, let's get started. , this week, there was a