arizona, where we are 30% of the population. you can get us there. but support our candidates. give them real money, so they can have a real fighting chance. >> it's been a pleasure speaking with you. >> thank you for having me. >> you can watch the final episode of leguizamo does america tonight, that is a ten pin eastern at msnbc and streaming on peacock. that does it for me today. we will be back here next sunday at noon eastern time. but stay right where you are, because there is much more news ahead right here on msnbc. d right here on msnbc. >> tonight on the lab matty hassan show, donald trump's legal team in meltdown mode, with accusations of interference on the doj investigation. plus, public enemy number one, ron desantis, hasn't even enter the presidential race yet, but trump's aim is to make sure he

leaves in disgrace. then, breaking news on the debt ceiling. and progressive congressman mark -- joins me to call out kevin mccarthy's dangerous game. i am charles blow in for mehdi hasan. let's get started. tonight we begin with a surprising allegation from a former member of donald trump's legal team. tim peloton is now publicly blasting a current trump lawyer just days after the -- advising the former president on the special counsel's classified documents investigation. peloton -- longtime legal association boris epstein attempted to enter fear with searches for -- quote, in my opinion he has not been very honest with us or the

cline on certain things. there were certain things like the searches that he had attempted to interfere with. parlatore, who said he had left the trump team due to infighting, -- may defending trump more difficult. a trump campaign spokesman said that his assertions were categorically false. it is also worth noting that parlatore hasn't just served on the legal team as a legal counsel. the attorney also testified late last year before the grand jury hearing, hearing on evidence about the classified documents case. what is more, according to a report this week from cnn, officials with the national archives have been informed to team trump that they are prepared to provide investigators with the records that show that trump and his top advisers had acknowledged the correct declassification process by he was president. just hours after that report was published, another trump

attorney suggested that the president records act had empower trump to ignore a federal subpoena, which isn't even close to being true. by all accounts, the justice department -- controversy is intensifying. and a federal indictment remains a distinct possibility. all while trump's legal team is mired in lies, infighting, and allegations of interference, which sounds like any other day in trump world. let's bring in my panel. christina greer, associate professor of political science at ford university, david jolly, former republican congressman and msnbc political analyst, and denise vallas, msnbc political analyst. danny, i want to first get your reaction to these claims about parlatore, who says that epstein was blocking the lawyers from getting information. i think one of the, 1 am a striking things he is saying is that epstein personally

interfered with attempts to retrieve documents from -- how do you consider what he is saying here? >> it is very interesting. there is a lot to read between the lines, because parlatore also says as a dig in a cnn interview against epstein, he mentions, i thought this was very telling, this epstein guy was never really a trial lawyer. he would spend about 18 months at a big firm doing transactional work. that is code work among lawyers for, this guy isn't a trial lawyer. we are the travelers. i am a criminal defense attorney. i am speaking like parlatore. and undoubtedly he has got the experience and he believed he knew the way this ship should go. now we see someone who is essentially acting as a go-between, who is interfering with the defense teams strategies. that, you almost have to commend parlatore for making that decision to leave the legal team. he really, in a way, had to. if it comes to the point, or on a legal team and we believe

that another member of the team is so hindering the legal team's mission that you can't continue to provide legal services in the way that you see best, then you really have to go. that is not an easy decision to make. so to that degree, parlatore has to be commended. and that he is speaking out, he is not making any ethical violations here. because he is talking about the legal team himself. he said, in so many words, nothing to do with the client, nothing to do with the case. >> david, you have -- political figures before. what is all this chaos and dysfunction among his lawyers signal to you about -- >> me, charles? >> yes. >> so, it's a great framing of that question. the intersection of politics and law come together, folks like denny, the true practitioners, they say you are softening the edges. but the reality is that is what happens in politics. so i think what you are seeing

from someone of trump's attorneys, the real trial lawyers, as danny says, or withdrawing. they're coming across the political loyalists of donald trump who are voting interference to try to protect him politically. ultimately, jack smith doesn't care about that. neither does fani willis. and neither does anybody else. donald trump is trying to frame this politically, it is loyalists are, frankly, house republicans are trying to sanitize all of his legal peril by putting a political lens on it. but the reality is donald trump faces significant allegations and the likelihood of multiple indictments between now in november 24, and it continues to increase. we very might have a public enemy for president who is facing a loss of his personal liberty while learning to be in the white house. >> kristen, with all this legal team drama playing out in public, the -- political impact on trump, particularly in the republican primaries, one -- point to the chaos and offer an

alternative to trump and that chaos? >> right. well, charles, it is two things. one, donald trump is trying to tell his supporters, and obviously has donors, that this is his attempts in a teapot. the democrats are just a witch hunt. none of this matters. they should just sort of, leave the courts. we know his base is going nowhere. they don't care about how many sexual assault charges are against him, how many fraud charges, how many bankruptcy charges. it is a matter. we are sticking with him. but we are going to see, hopefully the republican candidates saying, for the sake of our party, for the sake of our country, maybe we should go in a different course. this man has way too many to indictments down the road. this does not look great for us, obviously. if we get past the primary, if he is a nominee, we have someone who is looking at several indictments, and denny david just said. but we also have been very clear. the people who support donald trump will not be moved by any of these scandals, in the

embarrassment, any of the legal troubles that we face. even the allegations from the d.a.'s across the country that have been putting together, systematic -- and methodical cases against the former president. he is going to just say, it is a democratic partisan, we are trying against him, none of this even matters. he is completely innocent. and sadly, many of his republican supporters, many of whom vote in republican primaries, will not be moved by it either. >> i want to switch gears here to the georgia investigation in fulton county. fani willis has signaled this week that the grandeur indictments could be unsealed in early august. so, we are like three months out from that. what are you taking from the signal? why would she signaled so far ahead, is that because she is looking over the security of her team? or herself? >> exactly right. i mean, this is a scheduling issue. fani willis has apparently told the courthouse, hey, all you judges, don't schedule anything. keep in mind this is the fulton

county d.a.. someone who has direct involvement, direct interaction, all the d.a.'s under her command deal with these judges day in and day out. she would be boarding her own office as she did not keep tour schedule, where she is telling an entire courthouse to not schedule any trials. i have to tell you, there's nothing so delicate and at the same time so jam-packed, the way courtrooms trial schedule is. it is a really difficult thing to move things around. you cannot do with the way you would move around a doctor's appointment and something else. so if you're going to tell those judges that, here's a window that you need to keep wide open, no trials, i mean, i can't imagine telling a judge, hey,, keep in mind, the only thing a judge, a big thing judges care about is getting frowns over his fast as they can. efficiency. scheduling things, getting things over with. so to do things -- where and you don't need it?

you can almost bet the farm, there are plenty of farms in georgia, you can bet the farm there is something that is going to happen in that window. she doesn't keep that schedule, boy, there is going to be an entire courthouse full of angry judges, clerks, deputies and public defenders, and the ace, and everything. >> there is also a lot of defendants want to have their cases pushed back because. that >> absolutely right. >> david, these indictments can come just as the debates kickoff, the first republican primary debates, slated for august. in milwaukee. what will the other republicans actually have the backbone to use this against trump? that is always the question, right? do you think that they will see this to use the same tactic as they used during the control case -- get up the gumption. to say, this is not the guy for us? >> yeah. it's a great question. i think, charles, this whole conversation is important. donald trump faces legal

liability and legal culpability that is not impacted by politics whatsoever. and that is important. politics canceled his legal problems. but to restrict political lens, -- nikki haley, everybody was jumping into this republican primary, the interesting thing is, as christina said, none of these indictments, none of this legal peril has hurt donald trump. so the other republican candidates are afraid to go there. what they are saying is, donald trump can't win. they are not shaming him on his indictment. they are not agreeing with prosecutors. frankly, they can agree it is witch hunt and republican politics. but they are telling republican voters that donald trump can't win. the problem with that is he has won before. and he is currently at 60%. in the polls. and he makes a more convincing argument to republican voters than ron desantis or anyone else. we have not seen a way to topple donald trump in the republican politics. >> panel, please stick around. next, donald trump ramps up his attacks on ron desantis, before

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the track. privately, at least. the public part will come when he officially announces a presidential intentions this week. the florida governor is expected to file paperwork with the federal elections commission to officially declare his 2024 candidacy for president. ahead of a major fundraising meeting with donors on may 25th. but behind the scenes desantis is already making it clear he is running. in a call with donors and supporters on thursday he said there are only three credible candidates in the race, and that only he would be able to win both the republican primary and the general election. but desantis would have to close a huge support gap to do it. national polling has desantis behind trump by 30 percentage points. my panel is back with me. christina, let me start with you. i mention this massive 30-point gap between desantis and trump. how does he clothes that, and how does he differentiate

himself from trump without being too aggressive, because one assumes he has to bend over the people who now say they support donald trump. >> right. well so many republican candidates box themselves in, because they have been election deniers. and then after 2020 they said, the election was stolen. so realistically, donald trump -- so why are they running against me? we have got ron desantis, he is going to top donors and essentially say, i don't have lawsuits against me. i don't have e. jean carroll saying i was sexually assaulted. i don't have potential dgas from across the country. obviously bring in court cases against me. so why wouldn't you bet on me? and upholding the banner of anti-blackness, anti lgbtq, anti immigrant, anti-muslim. all the sentiments that republicans clearly are into right now. sort of realistically, if we are being very brutally honest, the mantle of right supremacy to rule this country back in a

host of ways. especially for women, for immigrants, for people of color, for lgbtq+ communities. he is saying i can do all of that, but without the lawsuit. so that is going to be the argument he's going to try and make, obviously, to the donors. because at this point the donors will then be able to create packs and get his message out in different ways. obviously media facilities and clearly he, wants to talk to newspapers across the country to hopefully sway them in a particular direction. i'm essentially, donald trump -- we will see if he is successful. >> yes. so david, this week candidates endorsed by desantis lost in his gop primaries his chosen candidate in kentucky's governor primary loss to a candidate backed by trump. and his choice for mayor of jacksonville, his own state, lost to democrat. so what does this tell us about sentences picks and why he didn't pull through? but also, how much damage does this do to desantis, because he

has his brand now, that i'm the guy who can win. >> yeah. that's exactly right. look, -- suggests that he is not strong as something he. as i think the loss in jacksonville, the democratic mayor be the desantis endorsed republican, is more about the national trend of swing voters. particularly soft republican performing republicans suburban women, saying, i cannot go along with the direction of today's republican party. particularly ron desantis's architecture of these culture wars. so i think it is a good democrat or -- harden decatur for desantis. but look, as you mentioned, he is forming on donald trump -- desantis right now is a delicate slot. -- early stage, one after one after one for, the hope that you might show that the old guy donald trump is actually beatable. otherwise you won't be him on message. desantis has just proven he can't do that. >> danny, last month trump

posted on truth social, his fake twitter thing, that desantis is quote, being absolutely destroyed by disney. this week, we saw that disney pulled plans for a one billion dollar complex in orlando, which would have had 2000 jobs. so, is trump right? does he have a point here? >> he does have a point. now disney and desantis essentially have not won, but really two cents of litigation. complex litigation that is difficult to follow. so let's suppose for example in the state of florida, desantis wins the battle. they may lose the economic war. which is interesting, because desantis has publicly said thanks to the effect of, hey, if you don't like the state you are living in, come to florida. vote with your dollar, vote with your feet. he is right. so he, more than anyone, should have known that when you start threatening a gigantic jobs maker, a huge economic asset for florida, a private corporation, if you are going to threaten them economically, they may do exactly what you

welcomed people to florida for the same reason. pick up their stakes and move somewhere else. or at least stop spending money in florida. this depends heavily on tourism as part of its revenue. i mean, this is a fight picked that they may succeed on the litigation side. but in the long run, it would be big, as trump mike said, losers. >> it just feels very odd, to pick this fight with disney. christina, we are also now seeing trump and desantis feud over abortion bans, of all things. desantis quietly signed a six-week abortion ban in florida last month. and downplayed it. trump, this week, indicated he thought it was too harsh. now desantis appears to believe there is room to trump's right on this issue. does desantis not understand how unpopular these abortion bans are with the american public writ large? >> charles, when we look at

public opinion we are two thirds of americans do not believe in these abortion bans, and they want to have a romans right to choose. we are choosing between pro-choice and antichoice politics. ron desantis, in so many republican leaders, do not know feel a male anatomy, clearly. because we know -- many women don't even know they're pregnant in six weeks. so he will try to -- also, now he is going to try to double down. we newell that large republican party does really into draconian politics, to take women's rights of a from them. it is incumbent upon the democratic party to really dissect this argument for each republican candidate to make an explicitly clear that they are all, whether it is six weeks, ten weeks, trove weeks, it is a matter. they're trying to take away omens right to choose, what is best for family. and also, this is an economic issue. we tried to make a woman have a child, when she or her partner may not be ready or willing to financially support, little and emotionally and physically in all the other things, this is a

much larger conversation. the democrats need to just make sure they keep putting on the bell. you've seen democrats have abortion on the ballot, they win. because not only democrats but independents and weekly republican believe that this is a decision that women should make between themselves, their families, and whatever personal decisions they need to do. it is also a heightened economic issue that affects women, their families, and communities writ large. as long as democrats can sort of, make sure they keep this issue, whether it is six, ten, 12, you know, 20-week bans in the news, it isn't really matter whether they are parsing between six weeks and ten weeks or whatever donald trump -- >> david, the naacp just issued a travel advisory for florida in direct response to the governor's attempt to erase black history -- diversity programs. could we see more floridians moving away as a result of these policies? you lived in the state. we are about to see a sort of florida flight? >> charles, my wife and i talk about that every single day.

in large part we definitely have young children, in florida. to end the problem with culture wars is it is a warrant. there are two sides to it. and you feel unwelcome. listen, i am a white, evangelical, straight mail. i feel unwelcome simply for my embrace of diversity of thought and personality, communities that have become under attack from desantis. his war on the african american -- lgbtq unity, it's true, the denial of science in history is true. so take myself, for instance. why would i want to raise my kids in an environment in which they are shamed for embracing diversity of thought and cultures? i want my children to be exposed to as much diversity as possible. and at home, my wife and i can orient our family around the values that that is right for us and prepare kids to make decisions that are ultimately right for them as adults. that is not permissible in the state of florida. you are shame for. you are unwelcome. so yes, we consider it every day whether to raise our kids in florida. and i think it is representative of thousands

upon thousands of floridians here in the sunshine state. >> it is truly a shame people would feel they have to flee the state because it is intolerant. christina, david and danny, thank you so much for your time. coming up, democratic congressman mark -- reacts to the breaking developments in the debt limit negotiation. but first, richard louis is here with the headlines. hello, richard. >> it charles could, to see you. -- rejects claims that bakhmut is under russian control. zelenskyy is saying ukrainian troops remain in the city but that russian assaults destroyed it. saturday the kremlin back wagner group says there are forces gain control of the eastern city. greece's ruling party winning the country's parliamentary elections by white march and. but will likely face a runoff election after falling just short of an outright victory. this is greece's first election since the country stopped being under supervision by international lenders that began providing bailouts in 2010.

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unacceptable. >> meanwhile, on meet the press, treasury secretary janet yellen doubled down on her early june default deadline. as political put it, while the threat of a potential u.s. default on its debt is growing ever closer, the same can't be said for the negotiators working to secure a deal to stave off an economic crisis. joining me now is congressman mark pocan of wisconsin. he is a member of the congressional progressive caucus. congressman, your reaction to this news that biden and mccarthy will meet tomorrow. how hopeful are you that they will bridge this divide and come to some sort of agreement in time to stave off this economic catastrophe? >> well, thanks for having me on, charles. i know that it will continue talking, but the end of the day, the deal that should happen is, we do whatever american family does.

we pay your bills. so that you don't lose your home and ruin your credit. and then you go about figuring out the budget like you are supposed to. i serve on the appropriations committee. that is the process we are supposed to be doing right now. the problem the republicans are having is that the bill that they passed that was their so-called negotiation had 22% cuts for all non-defense discretionary spending. that is a veterans benefits, that is education, health care, things like meals on wheels. and it is such a crazy budget that they can actually put it on paper, so they put a few parts of it out, but their challenge they have is the rhetoric can't match what they can actually put on a bill, and part of the negotiation is that i think they're trying to save face on this. all that matters right now is we lift the debt ceiling is that we pay our bills, then we will go into the normal process like congress does, but, you know, holding the nation hostage because there are extreme people, extreme maga

folks that are -- not an excuse >> congressman, a few weeks ago it seemed like the biden administration had the upper hand in terms of how the public was perceiving this battle. now it seems like mccarthy is feeling more emboldened. republicans not worry that they are going to be blamed like they were back in 2001, or do they believe, and maybe that might white house believes that blame will this time be shared between both of them? >> if we don't meet our bills it's bad for everyone. it's going to hurt the president and hurt the u.s. economy. but it also hurts every single american. what happens is you will have immediately a loss of jobs. immediately an increase in interest rates for people buying homes and small businesses trying to buy quitman. immediately you will see a drop in stocks and that will affect everyone's retirement. that's the very real ramifications of what is out

there. and somehow kevin mccarthy has convinced people that ideal, a deal was to be had. but he forgets to tell everyone that 86 times we've lifted the debt ceiling. three times under president trump without all of this fanfare that they are doing. they are playing a very dangerous game of chicken because they simply can't write a budget to match that 22% cut that they said they want to do and right now they are going to hold every single american hostage. the problem is at some point we may have negative effects coming even before we get to having a deal. it's not like you turn the switch off. we've had some economists talk to us as recently as last thursday and if you do even just a little bit of a delay it could take years to fix what has happened. this is a bad game of chicken republicans are doing. i think everyone will feel some pain, but we should remember the only people who are not willing to do what we have done 86 times previously is the house republican majority and

that's kevin mccarthy. >> msnbc columnist says we should stop looking at the debt ceiling standoff as normal. he says gop leaders are threatening to harm americans on purpose and to shrug ones shoulders and see this as routine is to miss not only how u.s. politics traditionally work but also how our elected officials are supposed to conduct peoples business. how do you react to that? >> he's absolutely right. this is one of the dumbest things we do in congress and we do a lot of dumb things there. i've been there now ten and a half years. my first session i was on the budget committee and we had this issue come up. it makes no sense that after congress's authorized spending and spent money there is a second follow-up vote or whether or not you're going to pay the bills you just said you are going to spend money on. if you sign a mortgage with your home you don't then suddenly decide every month whether or not you're going to pay that mortgage. if you don't you will lose your

home and your credit is destroyed. it's the same thing for the federal government. this came in place back in 1917. it was about having a limit on how many war bonds were by. today it's just allowing a small group of people extreme aga cold members of the republican caucus trying to screw everything up. since kevin mccarthy has given mtg and everyone else a set of keys that's what we are facing. this should never even exist and that's why a lot of us have said mister president maybe invoke the 14th amendment, let's make sure we never go through this again because it's a really risky game of chicken. >> congressman mark cohen, thank you so much for your time tonight. ahead, president biden's one-on-one meeting with zelenskyy at the chief seven summit. summit ♪ music (“i swear”) plays ♪ jaycee tried gain flings for the first time the other day... and forgot where she was. [buzz]

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have retaliated by releasing a list of 500 u.s. citizens who will be banned from his country. included in the group were barack obama and a host of other american lawmakers. joining me now is msnbc political analyst richard stengle. he is the former u.s., curry, secretary of state for policy diplomacy and public affairs in the obama administration and was a member of the biden transition team. rick, let's start with biden. first of all, why do you think you change's mind? second, does this risk escalate the conflict in ukraine? >> good evening charles, it's a good question. i don't know why he changed his mind i'm not sure he had his mind made up originally but what we have seen with ukraine and our dedication and loyalty is that we keep upping the ante. i sometimes think, what would

we keep it six months, with give it to him now. it's important vision, president zelenskyy who stole the show a g7 has been asking for f-16s for a long time. but it's not an absolute game-changer. these are actually old planes, former nato planes. they come from our g7 and nato allies. the russians have very sophisticated fighter jets. it's not going to automatically give ukrainian air superiority. it's a great decision, it's a good decision but it's not necessarily a game-changer. >> when i want you to react to this tweet from the new york times white house correspondent peter becker. quote, it's striking how putin is adopting trump's perceived enemies as his own. the new russian sanctions list includes people trump considers adversaries like letitia james,

brad raffensperger, and the officer who shot ashli babbitt even though none has anything to do with russia policy. what do you make of that? >> well i think he is 100 percent right. i just hope putin didn't ask trump who is going to be on your list, up with them online. because someone like brad raffensperger, he has absolutely nothing to do with russia at all. he probably doesn't even drink vodka. it's really a very strange thing, it shows that so much of what putin does is kind of just pr and sort of bad pr and that. it really is strange. it's not a coincidence and i would love to know how that happened. it's really not a pleasant thing either. >> obviously a great deal of attention went to g7 with the russian war in ukraine. but there was also quite a bit of talk about china. biden said he wanted to, quote, do you risk and diversify our relationship with the country. what do you make of that top?

>> well, i mean, china looms over everything. they are not part of the g7 so they are kind of two ways that the g7 nations wanted to engage with china. china obviously has a lot of poll on their allied russia. they wanted to ask the chinese, look, use whatever leverage you have to get putin to withdraw. and the chinese have proposed something like 12 point ukraine peace plan. they are engaged with that. the other thing is that they wanted to acknowledge the fact that there is chinese aggression in the south and east china sea. they mentioned that in their own remarks about china and ask china to kind of address what they are doing in the south china sea. china was really not happy about it. they are not happy about what they were asked to do with russia and they are certainly not happy about the g7 saying you are being way too aggressive in the south china

sea. >> thank you so wintertime sir. next, the attorney for biden administration official need a jacket wicks joined me to discuss her new defamation lawsuit against fox. getting inspired! volunteering! playing pickleba...! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we tried electric unicycles. i think i've got it! doggy-paddle! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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years undermining democracy with their election lies and now someone who was on the front lines of fighting that issue is hitting the network where it hurts. nina jankowicz drew fox's ire last spring when she was appointed to head department of homeland security's disinformation governance board aimed at combatting dangerous misinformation regarding homeland security, elections, and the ukraine war. naturally, fox pounced. falsely characterizing her efforts as a way for the government to silence conservatives. she received so much backlash as a result including death threats that she resigned just three weeks into her role. now she is suing the network for defamation.

we in 300 mentions over eight months on fox last year was repeatedly defamed in highly personal language. -- the guardian pointed out that tucker carlson called jingoism moran and said that her work amounted to a full scale attack on free speech. attorney max rodriguez represents nina jankowicz and he joins me now. max, thank you so much for being here. the irony is not lost on me here that your client, a disinformation expert is now going after people who spread lies about her. talk to me about the fallout in these lies. the comments may have served as entertainment for fox viewers but i can imagine that there was very real impact on nina's

life. >> good evening charles thanks for having me on. you are exactly right, we start with the tragic irony of a disinformation policy expert being the target of horrible attacks and other homes based on disinformation. the lies that we described in the complaint colluding some that you laid out there, these aren't trivial. they harmed nina in profound ways. they caused significant uptick that were directly associated with the coverage on fox in online harassment, in death threats, and even indexing. they also fundamentally altered her reputation and her path and her chosen field as a disinformation policy expert based on complete and utter fabrications. >> nina told the guardian her motive in suing fox was to ensure accountability for what she alleges was a smear campaign that undermined democracy. talk to us about the link to democracy and the importance of achieving accountability in

this case. >> sure. i think the key thing here is that we have seen from other cases the smartmatic case, which has i'm sorry from the dominion case and perhaps also from the smartmatic case that these are not accidents, these are not mistakes. these are things that are discussed behind the scenes of fox. they understand what they are doing and they are doing it for business. nina is in a large well funded company. she is just a person. but people have been tortured in this way but fox for a long time. she feel strongly that an individual person should not be prevented from holding fox to account for the types of statements that they make and harm and can cause just because

just because there is a large company. >> it's one thing to point the personal attacks that fox made against your client which are bad, of course. but the thing that would need to stand out but they purposely spread false information about your client, how do you do the? >> sure, there's a couple of different buckets in the case. the first bucket of provably false statements that we raised in the complaint are related to nina wanting to and working to censor american speech. if you take a look at anything that she has done in her career and her writing and her public statements it is very clear that she doesn't believe in censorship. especially with a solution to disinformation -- with the board in particular you can look at what its authority was as an advisory board and you can know that there wasn't any ability to censor anyone. the second bucket of false statements was that after the boards work was paused, after

only two months i believe. there were multiple hosts on fox who claimed she wasn't fired. she was was not fired. she resigned, that's very checkable, anyone over there could have checked. the third fall statement was that nina wanted to have twitter created tool to allow verified users to other users tweets. their entire source for this was a selectively edited video that it come from some user on twitter. if you look at the entire interview of her which was publicly available she had nothing to do with the tool in this into the, in every interview expresses her very skepticism about that tool. all those things where things fox shows not to mention and instead stick to their narrative that was meant to outrage viewers and we turn

nina into some sort of 1984 tight monster. >> you mentioned the dominion settlement earlier, do you think that actually strengthens your case? >> the settlement is very individualized in their case. the case itself and some of the things that were unearthed in the case have a lot to do with the understanding of fox as a business. they are very comfortable sticking with a predetermine narrative long after it is apparent that it is not factually accurate. is our expectation that as our case proceeds and we go into this discovery we will find similar things about nina. >> let me put that question sweetly differently. did your client feel emboldened by other lawsuits from dominion and smartmatic and former fox producer abby grossberg? >> i think it paves the way for

other people who have been harmed by fox to start to speak out and step up to hold the company accountable. >> max rodriguez, thank you so much for your time. a second hour of the mehdi hasan show after this break. and we will discuss a new development in the george santos saga and i will be joined by a trio of democratic state attorneys. make your dream car...a reality. mercedes-benz certified pre-owned vehicles are rigorously inspected to live up to the highest of expectations. (wheezing)

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of the mehdi hasan show, media matters presents biden -- biden's biggest election challenges not his age but how the media covers his age. plus, congressman robert caesarea the man behind the effort to expel george santos from congress on republicans cheap move to accountability. and three democratic state attorney generals from colorado, california, and michigan 20 discuss reproductive fights, gun reform, and combatting hate crimes. i'm charles blow infirmity his son, let's get started. >>.