last cycle from either majority states or majority congressional districts -- majority white congressional districts or states, and so that's showing another trend we've been seeing which is that voters on both sides are willing to sort of ditch, you know, voting along race lines, maybe more so voting along educational lines instead. >> still a small number to be clear, but growing, and, as you mentioned, black voters marginally breaking towards trump, the percentage increased in 2020 and race is expected to be extremely close in 2024 every little bit counts. alexei, thank you so much. we appreciate it. thanks to all of you for getting up way too early with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, may 22nd. there's a lot to get to this morning, including the new

reporting on turmoil inside the trump legal team that's representing the former president in the classified documents investigation. meanwhile, another republican senator is saying that the former president cannot win the 2024 election. we will have those comments and what they mean. it comes as the republican field in the race for the white house is about to add another name. plus, the naacp calls out florida governor ron desantis, we will have more on the organization's warning. also ahead, we will recap president biden's trip to japan for the g7 summit which included a meeting with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. and preview his meeting today at the white house with speaker kevin mccarthy as both sides are trying to find a compromise that would avoid a default on the country's debt. with us we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico" jonathan

lemire, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay is with us, also with us u.s. national editor at the financial times ed loos and president of the council on foreign relations richard haass joins us this morning. >> before we start i wanted to ask katty first and also ed about the passing of martin amus, "the new york times" said he was the most dazzling stylist in post-war british fiction, also jonathan yardley had said in the past at the "washington post" a force among those of his generation, now writing fiction in english, there is quite simply none like him. katty? >> yeah, i mean, i think he was a once in a lifetime, one-generation talent. he came out of this storied literary family, his father was also a famous novelist and right

from his very first work in his 20s martin showed the kind of brilliance that one might have expected from the name. he had this ability, i think, joe, in the books i read particularly in the '90s to combine humor with biting social commentary. you take a book like money which is an indictment of capitalism but he did it with this incredibly clever use of words and sense of humor and i think that was his real gift was -- even you look at "inside the zone of interest" which is now a major film, his first book to be made into a major film opened i think the day he died in cannes which looks at the holocaust and specifically at guards in a prison camp, but even there he uses humor to some consternation in german review -- amongst german reviewers but he seemed to think that nothing in the world that was worth tackling was worth tackling without a sense of is a tire and humor and

i think that was his brilliance. >> including ed luce himself, he said in an interview i believe 2011 or '12 when he was going through a dry spell he said there is a one word writer for every writer, for me it's decline. when he heard the news that he was being a grandfather he said being a grandfather is like getting a telegram from the mortuary. an edge to everything. >> yeah, one of his earliest novels was called "dead babies." he really liked to shock. even to the extent of being quite unpleasant sometimes, he liked to really sort of rile up the reader. he was kind of the bad boy of english letters. he was the sort of mick jagger, i guess, of english novelists. his best friend was christopher hitch ins, another of his great friends who i interviewed this

weekend was salman rush tee who of course very, very tragically lost his eye the last time he was interviewed on stage. he was the sort of standard setup but also the tabloid's idea of a bad -- a badly behaved notorious man of letters. brilliant writer, katty mentioned money, the information, the rachel papers. his nonfiction stuff on america was always really interesting. he died in america of course. he lived a lot of his time here. an enormous loss, a unique voice. >> we're going to get to the top story now, the district attorney for fulton county, georgia, fani willis is potentially previewing when she could announce charging decisions in her investigation into 2020 election interference. last week willis sent a letter to the chief judge of the fulton county court and other officials

requesting the courthouse be clear of trials or in-person hearings in early august. she did not provide a reason in the letter. a copy of which was obtained by nbc news. that request may provide a clearer timeline of when any potential charges could be announced. in a separate letter to law enforcement last month willis said she would announce any indictments during the state sear i don't remember court's fourth term which includes that august window. meanwhile, one of donald trump's former attorneys took to the tv networks over the weekend to blast another member of the former president's legal team. speaking to cnn on saturday, timothy poll torrey accused boris epstein of blocking he and others from getting information to their client. he had been one of three attorneys representing trump in

special counsel jack smith's investigations before suddenly resigning last week. "the new york times" reports he and several other lawyers recently tried to stage an intervention with trump about epstein who they say has a habit of delivering the former president good news even when the circumstances are grim. he also accused epstein over the weekend of trying to stop trump's lawyers from searching the former president's new jersey estate for classified documents. >> he was not very honest with us or with the client on certain things. there were certain things like the searches that he had attempted to interfere with. >> you said that boris tried to prevent from you conducting searches. what searches are those? >> this is the searches at bedminster initially. there was a lot of push back from him where he didn't want us doing the search and we had to eventually overcome him. >> wow. the other lawyers representing trump did not comment on his

departure. a spokesperson for trump called his accusations about epstein, quote, categorically false. >> despite the fact that so many other people are saying the same thing and have always said the same thing about him. jonathan, it looks like this might be a cya operation. obviously there are going to be attorneys who are going to be found responsible, we've already seen some judges make some rulings for keeping information from the federal government. what do you make of this latest move? >> i think there's a lot of the lawyers that represent donald trump who as the joke goes need lawyers themselves. certainly that may be what he is doing here, trying to distance himself from what could be coming down the road. boris epstein, he's been in the trump orbit since 2016, he worked on that campaign. he wanted a white house job was denied it because others in the -- the professionals, adults

in the room during that 2017 after trump took office rejected him but he has never strayed too far from trump, is close to donald trump jr., close to rudy giuliani, steve bannon, others, and there are plenty in the trump orbit who say he's trouble and echo what palatore said where he only delivers the good news to the boss and never wants to deliver the bad and that they feel like has led to some of donald trump's legal trouble. it's worth connecting that to what mika said about georgia, too. we are getting a much more clearer idea as to when this could come. so many people as you and i have talked about feel like georgia may be the case that poses the most legal peril for donald trump, now looks like mid-august is the moment we will learn about it and that this is something where he and a number of associates could potentially face charges. >> you know, georgia is going to cause most likely some of the biggest political problems if you look at polls and how americans respond to each indictment and which ones they

seem to be most disturbed by. georgia has seemed to be that one. but, mika, as far as what case is going to get him in the most trouble, according to one former trump lawyer, one that may put him in jail is going to be the mar-a-lago documents case. >> yeah. >> and, of course, bill barr his former attorney general this weekend also saying this is a case to watch. this is the case that's going to bring donald trump down. >> we will get to that right now, but just in terms of georgia and others, he uses these cases to spread disinformation, the former president still saying that he won't confirm that he lost the last election and for him it's more a tool let alone something that he's waiting down the line to come down. he uses it as a tool. it's a witch-hunt, he spreads disinformation. he is. >> he's preparing people for the bad news that is sure to come and, again -- >> to gin them up. >> but i'm skeptical about it working. i don't think it's going to work

in the end. he's got his base of support but as the u.s. senators, as the republican senators keep saying, as other people in the republican party say off camera every one of these indictments -- i forget, maybe it was chris christie, no indictments good news. it's never good news. >> right. >> you can spin it, you can make your base get angrier and i'm so tired of the stupid washington takes from pundits, this is only going to make him more powerful. >> no. >> it's the obi-wan kenobi strike me down and i only get stronger defense. no, it will make him stronger in a more dwindling base and therein lies the big problem. >> i think he continues to cause further damage with disinformation even if it is a dwindling base. >> that's who he is. >> yep. >> he's already said you terminate the constitution if it stood in his way. we know who he is. of course he will damage the united states for his own benefit if he can. he has said it time and again. >> perhaps most damaging for him legally is this next story.

former white house lawyer ty cobb predicting possible jail time for donald trump when it comes to the special counsel's investigation into the former president's mishandling of classified documents. take a look at what he told cnn. >> i think there is a possibility that the obstruction case may be broadened to go ahead and include the espionage act counts and the possession -- illegal possession of the classified documents given -- given the extent that -- and solely because of the fact that trump keeps lying about what the law s i think this obstruction case is a tight case and, yes, i do think he will go to jail on it. things are coming and i think they're coming fast. >> trump's former torn general

bill barr also weighed in on the seriousness of the mar-a-lago documents case. here is what he said during a recent interview with cbs news. >> the case is out there right now the one i would be most concerned about if i were the former president is the mar-a-lago document case. >> and why so? >> because it's -- it doesn't go a lot on intent or anything like that, it's very -- it's very clear that he had no business having those documents. he was given a long time to send them back and he was -- they were subpoenaed. if there's any games being played there, he's going to be very exposed. >> and of course he lied about it time and time again. richard haass, then made matters even worse at a cnn town hall meeting saying i could show them to anybody i want to, i have them and i could have them if i wanted to. >> slightly different experience than most of us had with

classified documents, i will say that, joe. look, unlike you i'm not a lawyer, i'm not going -- it's impossible to predict the political consequences but it's interesting that people like ty cobb and bill barr, both who are shall we say center right on the political spectrum are as sergeant joe friday-like as they are about this case. both about whether the former president is honorable and where the legal consequences are going. that's as stark as anything i've heard compared to all the other cases that are out there or could be out there. >> jonathan lemire, obviously the trump team publicly forward facing will say witch-hunt, witch-hunt, but internally obviously they're very concerned, they're very concerned about georgia and very concerned about the mar-a-lago case, especially because there is a prima facie case already laid out clearly against him. >> yeah, the phrase rising alarm was used recently from a republican very close to the

trump orbit as to how they perceive these investigations. if you tick through them they're dismissive of the one in manhattan over the business records, they think that one will largely go away and not have much political impact, but others are more legitimate. we shouldn't forget of course the e. jean carroll decision where trump was deemed liable of sexual assault. we haven't seen a lot of polling about trump since that came out, but the cases ahead, they feel -- people i've talked to close to the president, that the january 6 investigation is so big and sprawling and hard to prove and january 6 has become so politicized they feel like they can manage that one. again, let's take a step back here and realize how ridiculous an terrible this all is for the nation that we're talking about a presidential candidate trying to spin the insurrection he caused but that's the politics we live in. they're zeroed in on two, for georgia for all the reasons you've discussed and the documents case. this he realize as much as

they're going to play whataboutism and say president biden had documents, vice president pence had documents, it's the response to documents that was so different. >> right. >> they both gave them back, trump did not. it is black and white as one person put it to me. that's where they feel like the legal peril exists. >> whataboutism when, again, biden and pence said we've found some documents you guys come get them, whereas trump, difficult, lied repeatedly, even said after they come down they've returned all the documents that ended up being false as well. and so, again, the whataboutism routine doesn't really work here so much, especially with swing voters, independent voters and people who are going to decide whether he's going to win a general election or not in 2024. >> we're going to have reporting on later in the show from hugo lowell at the guardian suggesting some of the documents were left unattended in an open room n a storage room and that trump had ordered various people

to take them in and out even after he had been subpoenaed for them. he knew that they were there. he even said on the cnn town hall as you said, joe, that he had a right to take them. i guess that's what makes this the more simple legal case against trump because the prosecutor in georgia still has to prove the intent element which is a harder one to prove. when he said find me 11,000 votes, did he actually mean steal them for me, did he mean, you know, fabricate them for me even if they weren't there? i get that is a slightly harder linguistic stretch to make, versus the mar-a-lago one seems more black and white. the problem i suppose is that where he is as ty cobb is suggesting will face real legal peril over the documents is that the biggest most significant case of the january 6, the georgia cases, potentially the former president could find himself in legal peril over and that might have some concerns amongst people who are really trying to prosecute him.

>> and ed luce, in georgia you've got the tape. you've got the tape where he's saying find me the votes. at the same time lindsey graham is calling over trying to get the secretary of state to disallow votes, at the same time you have them going around doing everything they can to overturn the election. the intent, katty is right, someone could try to stretch as far as possible the words from their proper context, but i think that's what's so difficult for donald trump in the georgia case they've got him on tape telling the secretary of state just find me one more vote than i need to win. >> yeah, i would have thought -- i'm not a prosecutor but i would have thought that is as intent goes pretty close to open and shut case. i have to say, you know, you probably noticed over the weekend, i'm sure you reported on it, that putin -- putin is sanctioning trump's enemies now, there is a sort of tit for tat thing. brad raffensperger is one of the

people that putin has sanctioned. letitia james is another. it's an extraordinary sort of measure of the closeness between the two. but we are very probably going into a general election in which one of the candidates will be multibly criminally indicted. it just doesn't happen. it's an extraordinary situation. the fact that ty cobb who is the ungiuliani. ty cobb is a much more so bigger figure than giuliani, the fact that ty cobb is saying he will probably end up in jail when of course you can run for the presidency from jail, i'm sure that would happen after the next election, is extraordinary. >> it's remarkable. >> it really s do you know what else is extraordinary, richard haass, and ed just brought it

up, and you have people -- and i even saw this weekend people trying to dismiss the bizarre connections between vladimir putin and donald trump. still trying to do it this weekend, claiming that durham somehow turns everything into a hoax. you have vladimir putin, a guy who considers himself to be america's enemy, putting more people on the russian sanctions list, including a certain morning cable news host who goes by the name of joe and brad raffensperger and these prosecutors that have absolutely nothing to do with russia. he just selected people that had been considered donald trump's political enemies. again, a foreign country

sanctioning a secretary of state of georgia. not georgia the republic, the former soviet republic, but -- and brian williams, rachel maddow, seth meyers. >> i'm feeling a little left out. >> brad raffensperger? you have people who are donald trump's critics. >> absolutely. >> think about how bizarre this is that vladimir putin in the middle of a hot war decides he's going to pick domestic political opponents of donald trump who donald trump considers his opponents and sanction them in russia. how strange is that putin/trump connection and how much stranger can it get? >> first of all, joe, i want to congratulate you for making the list and like mika and others here i do feel left out. it's a bit of a mystery. look, i think there's

actually -- there's two serious sides of this. one is we still do not know what is behind the trump/putin relationship. it's inexplicable on foreign policy terms. there's something here, you know, remember churchill's old line about the soviet union a mystery wrapped inside a riddle wrapped inside an enigma. something doesn't add up. the other thing is when you think about putin's strategy on ukraine now, what is it? it's so play for time. things have not gone well to say the least over the last 16, 17 months and what he's hoping is that ukrainian or nato or american resilience and staying power fades. right now if you are vladimir putin what is your card in the hole here? it might be the 2024 elections. that he might just be thinking if i can just hold out through that there is a chance that u.s. policy will fundamentally change

if donald trump comes back into the oval office which means, among other things, what people like me have been suggesting the hope for some diplomatic effort might be pushed off by putin, again, hoping that this is the one thing that can save him from what is clearly a colossal strategic defeat that he has brought upon himself. >> that he has brought on to himself. you look at what donald trump said about nato, you look at what he has said when jonathan lemire asked a question on helsinki saying he trusted an ex kgb agent more than he trusted americans on intel. go back to what he said on this show in december of 2015 when we kept pushing him about vladimir putin killing journalists and killing political opponents, donald trump said in december 2015, he said, yeah, well, america kills a lot of people, too. saying whatever he could say to defend vladimir putin. >> i mean, how much more do you need? layers and layers. >> it just doesn't line up.

>> so moving now to the debt ceiling, president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy are expected to meet one-on-one today at the white house. this comes after a weekend of turbulent talks in washington on the debt ceiling. negotiators abruptly ended meetings on friday evening after both sides accused one another of pushing for a deal that catered to the more extreme wings of their parties. despite reported progress regarding unspent covid relief funds and other items, negotiators hit a snag on overall spending. however, after treasury secretary janet yellen yesterday confirmed the u.s. will run out of money by early june biden and mccarthy spoke by phone and agreed to meet later today. after their call staffers for both sides met again yesterday evening for just under three hours. meanwhile, biden confirmed he is not ruling out using the 14th amendment to single handedly

raise the debt ceiling, although he was not sure it could be invoked in time to avoid a default. >> jonathan lemire, at the end of the day, you know, i know there are democrats that are saying they're just going to go for a clean debt ceiling raise, you have mccarthy saying he's got to listen to his more extreme members. that's not where this deal is going to get done. there's going to have to be a bill that passes that will pass the senate that will pass the house that biden can sign, and what these leaders are talking about publicly is not going to be that deal. i mean, this is just -- this is gravity, man. this is political gravity. they've got to stop being up in the ether and need to come down to earth and say how can we get enough votes in the senate? how can we get enough votes in the house? how can we get the president's signature? >> there is a a lot of work to be done and not much time to do

it. june 1st looms as a hard deadline. the president called speaker mccarthy from air force one on his flight back from japan, he was leaving the g7 yesterday, the two men will meet later today at the white house. talks at a staff level seemed to make some progress during the middle to end of last week but then really took a step back over the weekend. rhetoric really ramped up. the white house has bit its tongue throughout much of this process making that pitch sort of staying above the fray, trying to work across the aisle, even risking alienating members of the left in order to get a deal done. that's reflective of biden's governing ethos believing that voters at the end will ignore the beltway noise and reward him for getting a big thing to the finish line. over the weekend the white house ramped up their attacks on the gop accusing them of bait and switch, of changing the deal at the 11th hour, the republicans returned with a similar accusation. the clock is ticking here and there's a lot of issues on spending that still need to be worked out.

i do think we should start looking towards the markets. they've stayed pretty calm to this point, we will see if that changes in the days ahead. even if mccarthy and biden broker a deal there will be a lot of work to get the votes done. therefore, you have to get democrats on board to have a bill to get through the house and the democrat-controlled senate. a lot of work to do in the days ahead. >> let's be very clear here, there are extremists that want to see this process crash and burn, but, ed luce, there are a lot more people that are going to be getting calls from contributors, from supporters, from business owners that say, hey, you guys can't let this thing go sideways. we've got to get this passed. i mean, where are you looking at for a possible solution here? >> well, it's not clear that

mccarthy, whatever deal that joe biden might do with mccarthy today or in the days ahead, it's not clear as jonathan was hinting at mccarthy can guarantee anything. he went through 15 rounds to become the speaker. he is beholden to the most extreme people in his caucus and even if they are getting calls from some of their funders, some of their donors, they're not paying attention to them clearly. they want to burn this house down. in terms of the budget bill, mccarthy passed and the cuts that are proposed, i think the cruelty is the point here. there is no economic or fiscal rationale for those kinds of cuts to public assistance, to food stamps, to sort of basic support for americans who need it the most. what i'm looking at is, i guess, mccarthy is john boehner squared.

boehner couldn't control his caucus, his party, in 2011, the last time this happened when of course biden was vice president and biden eventually made a deal with mitch mcconnell. mitch mcconnell isn't really playing that kind of role this time. he fell over, he was out of work, away from work for six weeks, and mccarthy has boehner's problems square. can any deal with mccarthy stick? it's an open question. >> yeah, it really is. u.s. national editor at the financial times ed luce, thank you very much for being on this morning. we will be reading your latest piece entitled "the kamala harris question." we appreciate your being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," the naacp is warning travelers not to visit florida. we will tell you why the civil rights organization is calling out governor ron desantis ahead of his expected presidential campaign launch. plus, another republican

senator says donald trump can't win the 2024 election. the argument from louisiana's bill cassidy is ahead. also ahead, a liv golfer wins the pga championship. we will have the highlights from the final round at oak hill including one major moments in a story book weekend for a little known club pro. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. right ba.

with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us

[whistle] rover! he will bark at you once, but then you're best friends for life. helicopter on your finger to get his attention like this. king king... ♪ he loves people. can't wait. ♪♪

the marine veteran who

choked a man to death on the new york city subway three weeks ago is speaking out for the first time. daniel penny is charged with second-degree manslaughter in the death of jordan neely. nbc news correspondent emilie ikeda has more. >> reporter: nearly three weeks since the subway encounter the man seen holding jordan neely in the deadly choke hold is breaking his silence, suggesting he would take action again under similar circumstances. i would if there was a threat and danger in the present, daniel penny told the new york post. in the interview near his hometown on long island the 24-year-old marine veteran and college student said this had nothing to do with race adding i judge a person based on their character, i'm not a white supremacist. penny accused of second-degree manslaughter wouldn't go into detail about what led up to the confrontation but indicated it wasn't like anything i had experienced before. his lawyers say penny acted in self-defense after neely who was homeless and long suffered from mental illness aggressively

threatened him and others on board. penny wasn't initially arrested quickly spawning protests that spilled on to subway tracks and dividing political leaders nationwide over so-called vigilanteism and record levels of homelessness. on friday hundreds gathered to remember the 30-year-old street performer. >> we keep criminalizing people with mental illness. they don't need abuse, they need help. >> reporter: when asked what penny would say to neely's family he said i'm deeply saddened by the loss of life. it's tragic what happened to him. hopefully we can change a system that so desperately failed up. penny faces up to 15 years in jail if convicted of manslaughter a charge lawyers for neely's family say doesn't go far enough. >> joining us now president of

the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation" resharpton. as we saw in emily's piece rev al gave the eulogy a neely's funeral on friday. first of all, if you could tell us more about the funeral, how his family is doing and what do you think needs to happen moving forward? >> well, his family clearly is struggling with the loss of life of someone that they loved right at the same church that we had the funeral, mount nebo baptist church was the same place 14 years ago that they funeralized jordan neely's mother. jordan sitting there. they felt that this is what triggered a lot of his mental illness even going further. so they're sitting there in the same church looking at a casket of a young man who should have

had help and who the system did not -- even though they knew he had problems kept letting him go, never really dealing with the mental illness issue which is the center of what they're saying that he should have been helped. i think the mass even said we need to sit down and have summons on how we deal with how he was able to fall through the cracks of the city bureaucracy and he is choked to death by someone who is not in law enforcement, no the in mental health services and who came up from behind him and claims self-defense. it was very difficult for the family and it still is. luckily the attorney and the other attorneys are really trying to seek justice in this matter. >> and i just -- there is a lot of discussion about mental health, especially a crisis among the nation's youth. we have seth moulton coming on

later who wants to propose a solution to it. a need for sweeping changes as it pertains to mental health in this country. i've heard you even describing this situation most of what you just talked about was how the system let him down. i guess i would ask that critics are arguing here that this man is being charged with maybe something that the system had a role in as well which was jordan neely's mental health and the lack of help that he had out there. what do you say to his comments that he made that he's not a white supremacist and that he was acting in self-defense? >> i think that, first of all, the comments if you look at my eulogy is that what we said was why was he let go at the precept and whether or not if he was black would they have let him go if it was the other way.

no one said he was a white supremacist. we questioned what happened at the precinct which we also questioned five black cops that killed tyre nichols in memphis this year. did i that eulogy. we said even though these five black cops were black they were wrong. so this has nothing to do with trying to charge him as a white supremacist. he was charged with manslaughter. he wasn't charged with a hate crime. so they're trying to with the help of the right wing media move the argument into something no one is making. we're saying how could someone coming from behind that was not under any threat, an unarmed man who was making noise, maybe annoying, how do you choke him to death, hold him down, feel him go lifeless and still not let go. that's what he's charged with. let's not try to make this something that it's not.

i think that they're trying to move the premise so we go to the wrong conclusion. this is not about a hate crime. this is about why you defended yourself against no apparent threat. obviously, mika, you came from behind the guy, how could he have been a threat to you? and you held him with two other people holding him down until he was limp and you held on anyhow. everyone that has been interviewed in the media that was in that car said, yes, he was annoying, yes, he was making noise, but we did not feel that there was any immediate threat on us. and even if someone down the car felt he could become a threat, this guy was not a policeman. who appointed you to get up and kill a guy in the name of i'm protecting someone. why didn't you call law enforcement? let's look at your cellphone. did you try to call 911? did you try to call an mta officer? that's what he's asked to defend against these charges not fabricate some charge that

someone called him a white supremacist. >> we will be following this, also want to ask you about this, the naacp is is warning against visiting florida. the organization issued a travel advisory on saturday citing governor ron desantis', quote, aggressive attempts to erase black history and restrict diversity, equity and inclusion programs. in january desantis blocked high schools from offering an advanced placement class on african american studying saying the course is, quote, inexplicably contrary to florida law and significantly lacks educational value. the republican governor specifically took issue with six lessons including black queer studies and the reparations movement. reverend al, your thoughts? >> i mean, i think clearly

governor desantis has set a hostile environment for blacks, for women, for lgbtq. he has gone overboard trying to say in every opportunity he could get that he wants to see certain people, the history not be discussed. we at national action network had a march in jacksonville around this. he's gone after the lgbt community. we're seeing where different pride events have been canceled in the state. this tone does make it dangerous. i agree with the naacp that you need to have your antennas up if you are in any of those segments that he has in many ways demonized and made appear different. he even has interjected himself in what we just talked about by calling the subway accused manslaughter person saying he's a good samaritan, which is a distortion of the bible.

the bible said the good samaritan helps someone on the side of the road, didn't choke him out. i think that he is just trying in any way he can to come where there's some division and play on people that are usually the ones that are the butt of some kind of bias and i think that the naacp is right to say you need to be very careful going through florida with the tone desantis has set. >> all right. coming up, we're going to discuss a major development coming out of the g7 summit. an effort to provide ukraine with more fighter jets. and we will have president biden's response to russia calling the plan a colossal risk. plus, republican senator tim scott of south carolina is expected to announce today that he is entering the 2024 presidential race. we will tell you which colleague is already endorsing him. "morning joe" is coming right back. right back competitive brother. check.

psych! really? dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate. ♪ well you could end up paying for all this yourself. with wet amd, sometimes i worry my world is getting smaller because of my sight. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments. which means doing more of what i love. ♪ vabysmo is the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd.

vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection or active swelling in or around your eye, or are allergic to it or any of its ingredients. treatments like vabysmo can cause eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. although uncommon, there is a potential risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. open up your world! a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor.

the founding pastor of ra deemer presbyterian church in new york city and best selling author timothy keller died on friday at the age of 72. "the new york times" remembered the evangelical christian leader as someone who shunned fire and brimstone delivering pointed professorial messages and avoided being identified with a single political view. in an interview with "the atlantic" in 2019 he said, what we need is a nonoppressive moral absolute. we need moral absolutes that don't turn the bearers of those moral absolutes into oppressors themselves. keller was a frequent guest on "morning joe" including an appearance last november to talk about his book "forgive: why should i and how can i".

here is some of what he said about forgiveness. >> you really can't have a relationship without forgiveness, you can't have a marriage, you can't have a friendship and you really can't even have a society desmond tutu wrote a book called "no future without forgiveness." he was basically saying that you have endless cycles of retaliation between various classes and groups, it goes on for centuries, unless you learn to forgive. so i'm not sure we can have a human community without forgiveness. >> so your thoughts? you knew tim keller, went to his services, and had such, such great respect for respect for . >> you know, i found it ironic that i came to new york city to find one of the best evangelical pastors i had ever heard over five decades. >> what was it about him? >> he really -- he really challenged you. he really made you think. he was never on the surface.

and it was -- there were no -- he didn't provide easy answers. and what i thought was so fascinating about him is we would always go up -- we would always walk over, actually, to their service on 64th and the upper west side, and it was always packed. >> packed. >> you had to get there early. i remember one time, i missed the morning service, so i said, well, there's one on amsterdam, i believe, or maybe broadway and 72nd. i'll just walk up there. they have a 5:30 service there. i walked in this huge church ten minutes beforehand. it was packed. there was no place to sit. then i noticed something else at the time. i was a younger man. at the time, i may have been 50, 51, 52. i was, by ten years, the oldest person there. you had young professionals in their 20s, 30s, 40s on a sunday

afternoon at 5:30 p.m. going to one of seven or eight redeemer churches -- redeemer services across new york city that day. and here's one at 5:30, and it was packed. it was like nothing i had ever seen. and it's a wonderful example about how one person can make a difference. one person with a positive but challenging message about god can bring people together of all political stripes, of all races, of all nationalities. it was -- it was extraordinary, and we have his books now to read, but he will really -- he'll be truly missed. >> absolutely. >> i mean, you saw him when he came on the show. he wasn't mr. sunshine. >> no. >> he was not, hey, how you

doing? he was an extraordinarily thoughtful man. >> yeah. >> and he'll be missed very much. >> also, as we mentioned at the top of the show, mark, the british author known for his comic novels in the 1980s and 1990s died on friday after a battle with cancer. he was 73 years old. amis published 15 novels throughout his life, as well as several works of nonfiction, essays, and short stories. joining us now, "washington post" books editor john williams. thank you for being on the show this morning. >> john, thank you so much. the novels, also, he was an extraordinary critic and was known for being a critic, but he had a quote that said something like, when you're young, saying awful things about other people in print is a vice. as you go to middle able, it

becomes more unseemly, and i think he said something like, it nearly gas you as you move toward the twilight. he was always challenging himself. i was just talking about an evangelical pastor that never made it easy for his listeners, always challenged his listeners in a completely different world. you could say martin amis did the same for his readers absolutely. you could also say that he was in his own way not mr. sunshine, like tim keller. he was quite irreverent, so making this transition is little funny. he never quite gave up that vice of insulting other people. it sometimes got him into trouble, especially in the wake of 9/11, but he always had this irascible tone to his writing, both as a critic and a novelist, and you know, he was quite literally born into the job or at least the world of the job. his father was kingsley amis, a very well-known british writer,

so from the beginning, there was an air about him of what now we would call maybe a nepo baby and maybe a suspicion that he was born on third base, but he proved over time to be one of the best writers of his own generation, along with a lot of people of his age who were considered kind of a cohort, ian mcewan, salman rushdie. >> he almost overshadowed kingsley amis and did prove his own literary worth. martin used to say that he had a high style to describe low things, and he was unrelenting in looking at capitalism, looking at people's vices, looking at the seedier side of life and people's desires. when you think of the transition that he made from the uk and then came to america, what was it about america that appealed to him? did he feel it liberated him to explore that even more frankly? >> i think so. i think he looked a little slack-jawed at america in those ways, for all the reasons that

the books got out, especially the early novels, where there's a lot of talk about the sort of increased public nature of pornography and drug use in the culture, and he was a satirist, especially in the early books. he was quite famous in the uk early on because of his father. took him longer to catch on in the states, but when he did, it was books like "money," set mostly in new york, about a filmmaker who is, as he puts it, addicted to the 20th century, and it's interesting because he was -- amis was an equal opportunity offender and could be proactively vulgar in a way that isn't very fashionable now. i don't think he's quite in at the moment. in a book like "money," he's both sending it up, and you get a little bit of -- you borrow some of the nrnl, so he had this verbal energy, and i think people sometimes mistook his gimlet eye on it for what he actually believed and felt. >> it's interesting.

she was talking about -- and you were talking about he'd be seen as a "nepo baby" today, and yet, it's something that he struggled with for some time. he said, "i've been delegitimized by heredity." at the same time, how fascinating that, as she said, he may have actually, in the end, even outshone his extraordinary father. jonathan yardly at the "washington post" had written this in the past. "a force unto himself among those in his generation. now writing fiction in english, there is quite simply no one else like him." how fascinating that a man who, again, said he was delegitimized by his family actually exits this earth considered one of the finest stylists in post-war britain. >> yes, and arguably more famous than his dad at the peak of his fame for sure, and someone who proved himself, and it's hard to

take the delit legit maigs seriously. >> thank you so much, john. >> thank you, john. we really appreciate you coming in. and still ahead, we're going to look at new reporting on donald trump's handling of classified documents, including the warning the former president got from his own lawyer. plus, an update this morning from ukraine as there are conflicting claims about who controls the devastated city of bakhmut. "morning joe" is back in a moment. f bakhmut. "morning joe" is back in a moment [ giggles loudly ] ♪ jitterbug! ♪ [ giggles loudly ] ♪ jitterbug! ♪ [ giggles loudly ] [ tapping ] ♪ you put the boom-boom into my heart ♪

intuitive sit-to-start in the all-electric id.4. it's the little things, it's a vw.

i had no idea how much i wamy case was worth. c call the barnes firm to find out what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ i think there is a possibility that the obstruction case may be broadened to go ahead and include the espionage act counts and the possession -- illegal possession of the

classified documents, given -- given the extent that -- and solely because of the fact that trump keeps lying about what the law is. i think this obstruction case is a tight case, and yes, i do think he'll go to jail on it. feds are coming, and i think they're coming fast. >> the case is out there right now, the one i'd be most concerned about, if i were the former president, is the mar-a-lago document case. >> and why so? >> because it's -- it doesn't go a lot on intent or anything like that. it's very clear that he had no business having those documents. he was given a long time to send them back, and he was -- they were subpoenaed, and if there's any games being played there, he's going to be very exposed. >> all right, first, that was former white house lawyer ty

cobb, predicting time behind bars for former president trump, while trump's former attorney general, bill barr, also highlights the seriousness of the case. this is the one most legal experts are saying is kind of cut and dry. >> it is really is cut and dry, and it was cut and dry from the beginning, but the fact that they obstructed justice, the fact that they signed something lying to the justice department, lying to the fbi about returning all the documents, i mean, come on, man. >> he found a way to make it a lot worse for himself. >> you made it harder for yourself. dude. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> come on. >> it is monday, may 22nd. >> there are some things you can't lie your way out of, donald. this would be one of them. >> jonathan lemire and katty kay and reverend al sharpton still with us. let's bring if hugo lowell and

joyce vance. >> so, donald trump appears in this case to be in a corner, no way out. reminds me of a certain basketball team, the boston celtics, jonathan lemire. >> oh no. >> in a corner, man. down 3-0. come on. what in the world has happened? >> that was unexpected segue there, joe. thanks a lot. >> swerved off the road on that one. >> you did. the celtics lost two tough games at home where they collapsed down the stretch, and last night in miami, they embarrassed themselves. they got blown out and looked like they quit in the second half. it was a really poor showing. i expect them to get swept. my only solace is the lakers are also down 3-0. but joe, we should take a moment to note this. any time any team in any sport in any playoff series is down 3-0, what is invoked? the 2004 boston red sox. so, we will always have that. and i'm clinging to it this morning.

>> well, you got to cling to something. by the way, a lot of screaming yesterday in katty's household. >> what? no. >> yeah, the police had to be called. >> oh, come on. >> because it got so loud over the weekend because of man city. man city clinched yet another championship, coming back against arsenal, who, at the break, everybody was sure that arsenal was going to carry it away. i tell you what, even jack greelish is looking good. you guys have a chance to win the fa cup, have a chance to win the champions league. this looks like a team of destiny. >> now the question is, can they win the triple? it was fun to watch the crowds on the pitch last night with the signs up, we're going for the three. this has to put pep guardiola up there. >> mika, katty is talking about man city, and you're reading. >> i'm fascinated about trump's

valet. >> she's talking about city. go ahead, katty. we're so sorry. >> the breaking news here is that katty can talk about any sport at all, because i can really not do any of it. however, this is the one thing i can talk about, because my husband screams most of sunday and saturday with delight at the moment. yeah, so, man city, looking great. my husband, a very happy place to be. pep guardiola, possibly the greatest manager of any soccer team ever, what do you think, joe? >> he's at least the second best in the premier league right now behind jurgen klopp. >> next weekend against man united, that's a big deal for them. >> no, i know. a very, very big deal. and i guarantee you, mika is going to be in front of her telly watching city and united on our show. >> be making you breakfast, i think, usually in the morning. >> mika and i will be texting

through the match. >> rapidtexting. i want to go to hugo lowell. >> about city? >> no, about the mar-a-lago documents case, and i'm curious, we have now these legal experts. we have the former attorney general and ty cobb saying, trump could even see jail time here. just reading into the details of this, every time i read into this, i'm just shocked at the stupidity of those, honestly, of former president trump, moving documents in and out of his office before and after the subpoena and i guess having people do it for him. can you fill us in on what looks the worst out of this case? >> yeah. i mean, great week for guardiola, terrible legal week for trump. that will be my soccer contribution of the morning. >> there you go. >> at the heart of this case now for the justice department and the special counsel is what was going on with the movement of boxes when trump was subpoenaed for the classified documents

last year, and the lawyer, evan corcoran, trump's lawyer at the time, took contemporaneous notes, and that got subpoena, and we got a readout of some of the contents of the notes, and it highlights the fact that trump was warned he could not keep any of these classified documents. he was informed about his subpoena obligations. so, when the subsequent response the subpoena was incomplete, that becomes a problem for the former president, and it becomes a problem for his legal team and there's a whole bunch of other stuff in the notes about how the valet had unusually detailed knowledge about where the lawyer was conducting his searches, when he was conducting the searches. the valet even wanted to help him conduct the searches for classified documents, and i think the special counsel's office is looking at this as the core, the heart of the obstruction investigation. >> so, joyce, let's bring you in on this to get your analysis of those developments there at those documents but also what we talked about earlier in the show, about how one member of

the trump legal team quit in part because he says another, boris epshteyn, was almost running obstruction and was getting in the way between what they needed to tell donald trump about how serious this all is. >> right. it's almost as though there's a turf war going on here among the lawyers. you know, often, when you see a lawyer leave a legal team, that might signify that there's a plea deal in the works or that there's some legal reason behind the change. here, it looks like a pure turf battle, but when particletory goes out and reveals this sort of information, it's almost as though he's pointing a finger at boris epshteyn and including him in the group of people involved in obstructing justice in this situation. >> well, i was going to say, isn't there a cya operation going on here as well, joyce? certainly, you know, you've seen it. you've seen where lawyers have problems with other attorneys, with their clients.

they quietly go off the case. they certainly don't go on television and do things like this. they just leave, and people ask why, go, he has a better team or she has a better team with her right now, and it was best for all. lawyers do that all the time. in this case, i just keep going back to the federal judge. i believe it was in this case who said, when they -- they pierced the attorney-client protection, and pierced that veil, they did so because they thought a crime may have been committed. and i'm just wondering whether this guy is doing everything he can to get as far away from the obstruction and the legal team that took part in that as possible. >> i think you're right to say that this is unusual. we don't usually see lawyers come out and make statements like this after they leave a legal team.

you know, it's cya, maybe wavig a red flag at the justice department and saying he would like to come back and testify in a grand jury. i think that would make it the third time for him. all of this is wrapped up in this notion -- you know, trump's lawyers don't seem to believe that when people say everything trump touches dies, that it includes the lawyers. but clearly, it does. because they've put themselves at risk in a number of different ways. and so, we see lawyers leave and have to worry about whether they're next. i don't think i've ever seen a situation where so many lawyers, boris epshteyn, john eastman, are all invoked as part of possible criminal activity. this isn't the only case involving trump where a judge has ordered that the attorney-client privilege be pierced because of the possibility that legal advice was being used, whether on purpose by the lawyers or inadvertently, to continue in a course of criminal action. it is perplexing and unusual to

say the least. >> well, wow. well, that's one legal challenge for former president trump, the one that people feel is the most cut and dry. but then there's this. the district attorney for fulton county, georgia, fani willis, is potentially previewing when she could announce charging decisions in her investigation into 2020 election interference. last week, willis sent a letter to the chief judge of the fulton county court and other officials requesting the courthouse be clear of trials or in-person hearings in early august. she did not provide a reason in the letter, a copy of which was obtained by nbc news. that request may provide a clearer timeline of when any potential charges could be announced. in a separate letter to law enforcement last month, willis said she would announce any indictments during the state superior court's fourth term, which does include that august

window. >> so, hugo, august. looks like it's going to be august. she had talked about over the summer. i'm just curious, any insights of why this has taken so long. she had a grand jury -- i mean, georgia, i guess you have to have like 12 grand juries to jump through first, but they had a grand jury already. >> that would take a while. >> quite a number of people. you know, with probable cause, and now another one. why the delay? >> so, georgia has a special purpose grand jury that is a fact-finding grand jury, and after the special purpose grand jury issued its recommendations, fani willis can now take potential charges to an actual grand jury and seek indictments. and that's kind of where we are coming up to at this stage. you know, a lot of the intervening period has been dealing with sort of pre-indictment issues that a prosecutor would want to resolve before they sort charges and stuff like extending immunity

deals to at least half of the fake electors who have been identified as targets in this case. it's about seeing whether it's appropriate to strike one of the lawyers representing the fake electors for potential conflicts. you have to tie these kind of loose ends off before you seek indictments, and judging by the timeline that fani willis has put in her letter, it's basically a three-week period from july 31st through to the middle of august. that seems to suggest that it won't just be one indictment. from what we understand, there could be multiple indictments against multiple individuals. we'll probably see a conspiracy charge. that is kind of what georgia is famous for. they have a very expensive rico statute. but there's also individual crimes by other people that the d.a. has been focusing on, so our expectation is over three weeks in august, we may see a deluge of indictments. >> i was just going to ask joyce vance, from what we've heard leading up to this moment, it seems there may be far more than just donald trump being

indicted. we've heard about the possibility of rudy giuliani, the fake electors, everybody that actually took part in this alleged conspiracy. so, the docket may be pretty full in georgia. >> i think that's right. you know, it has always seemed like there are at least two conspiracies in georgia. one is the internal one. willis subpoenaed a lot of the folks who were on that georgia slate of fake electors,and you could see how that could be a separate, smaller conspiracy, and then there's the larger conspiracy involving trump and, of course, his now infamous request that he be -- that the number of votes that he needed be found for him. it's also possible, though, that those two conspiracies could be cojoined as one larger conspiracy. i think parsing through these legal weeds is helpful for people to understand why the process does take a while. there are complexities that have to be resolved if you're a prosecutor. you have to nail these details down, including who's a witness

and who's a defendant before you bring your indictment. so, this is the district attorney in fulton county, georgia. she's not backed with the same level of resources that justice department prosecutors, for instance, would have, and she moves, i think, at a slower pace and sees these sorts of delays not because she's being dilatory or because her case is in trouble, but simply because it's the reality of the very complex world that prosecutors operate in. >> all right. "the guardian's" hugo lowell and former u.s. attorney, joyce vance, thank you very much for being on this morning. so, during this year's meeting of leaders at the g-7 summit in japan, an allied coalition of western nations announced it will work together to provide f-16 jets to ukraine. it wasn't long after that announcement when russia responded, calling the move to provide jets to ukraine a "colossal risk."

during president biden's press conference yesterday, he was asked about those comments, and he didn't mince words. take a look. >> thank you all very, very much. appreciate it. >> how do you respond to the president calling in a colossal risk, mr. president? >> it is for them. >> all right. well, let's bring in former -- that's one way to put it. let's bring in former stream l.a. commander james stavritas. we heard at the beginning of this war that they couldn't have some of our anti-missile systems. they get the anti-missile systems eventually. they couldn't have tanks. they eventually get tanks. they couldn't have the f-16s, now they're getting the f-16s, and i remember two or three months ago you talking about the extraordinary need for these, and i thought, it's just a matter of time. they've got them. talk about what a big

game-changer that could be. >> well, first, you got to take the president and say, you know, as he gets more senior, he's getting quite witty, simply saying, it's a colossal risk for them. i had not seen that clip. it's a good one. and it's true. joe, this f-16's been around for a while as a jet, but we've been upgrading it constantly over the decades. it's operated by 25 countries around the world, many of whom are our allies. lot of western pilots know how to fly it. we know how to train people to use it, and most importantly, it's a multi-mission fighter, meaning it can do air-to-air combat, shoot down russian jets. it can do air-to-ground strike at russian targets on the ground. it can do electronic warfare and jam. it's perhaps not the best at anything, but it's very, very good at everything. it's the swiss army knife of the battlefield.

>> let's talk about the g-7 and zelenskyy going to the g-7. he got to not only have face-to-face meetings with members of the g-7, and he got, it seems to me, it was very helpful for the war effort there but also got to sit with people like modi, who was there as a visitor, and with others. how significant was zelenskyy's appearance at the g-7? >> oh, i think enormously significant and principally because of the audience. you know, it's the g7, but it's also, as you point out, other big economies like modi, who you're showing there, from india. australia, not a member of the g7 but a very important economy. when you add up all the people around that table, the gross domestic product total globally is well over 60% of the world's gdp.

so he's pitching the bankers, if you will. that's crucial, and he's showing that he is the one who can come and step in. you can't imagine vladimir putin being allowed in that room. he'd probably be led away in handcuffs. he's an indicted war criminal. look at the reaction to president zelenskyy. we ought to feel very proud he's our ally. >> well, i'll tell you what, and when you see him there with modi, when you hear xi in his own way giving warnings about -- giving warnings about even talking about nuclear weapons, you suddenly understand why vladimir putin is boxed in and that he is depending on that man right there on the left, modi. modi's india to help take up some of the slack from all of the trade that's been cut off from the european union. so, vladimir putin now, whether he wants to admit it or not, is a junior partner to xi and to a lesser degree also modi, because after all, putin's russia had a

gdp smaller than texas before this war began. >> exactly. and, oh, by the way, if you're the chinese leader, president xi, and you're looking north from beijing, you see this vast empty land, siberia. nobody lives there. this is russia to the east of the ural mountains. it's empty of people, but it's full of oil, gas, arable land, timber, diamonds, strategic minerals, rare earths. the chinese look at that like my dog looks like at a rib eye steak. it looks really good. and yes, putin is the junior partner, to be sure. and he will get played like one both by beijing and new delhi. >> admiral, of course, the president zelenskyy's appearance at the g7 comes as the world looks at bakhmut. the russians have claimed that they have -- that they have seized that territory, the wagner group and now the russian

military saying as well they've got all but all of it. zelenskyy denied that. but members of the ukrainian ministry -- defense ministry did acknowledge that the ukraine's presence there is very limited, so russia seems has more or less captured the city after months and months of brutal fighting. so, that's what i wanted to ask about. what do you think the impact of bakhmut will be? what are the aftershocks of bakhmut? both sides spent so much time and men and equipment in that space. how do you see it playing a role with how ukraine's going to carry out its counteroffensive going forward? >> jonathan, 2,300 years ago, there was a warrior who took on the roman empire, and we take the word, a pyric victory from that, because he won the battle but lost the war. he broke his military on the wheel of a battle in that area of the world, and as a result, i

think it will be much the same here, but russia has "accomplished" in effectively destroying the city of bakhmut. they didn't take it. they break it. they broke it. and as a result, their own armed forces have been seriously diminished, and as they try to defend this 600-mile battle line against the ukrainian offensive that is assuredly coming in the next few weeks, they will be in far worse shape for this empty pyrrhic victory. >> admiral, shouldn't we have given those f-16s earlier when ukraine was asking for them or at least trained the pilots earlier? we've lost a lot of time. >> we have. and there's no other way around it. i understand why the administration has been very careful, very incremental, and as joe mentioned at the top of this segment, it took us a long time to get comfortable sending

them anything more than stingers or javelins. eventually, we got there with advanced drones. we got there with tanks. now, we're there with f-16s. should have happened earlier. many called for that. here's the point, katty. we're doing it now. and here's the second point. those ukrainian fighter pilots, they're very experienced. many of them have a thousand-plus hours in combat jets. they will be able to transition quickly and fly these jets very capably. so, let's look to the future. i think the future is bright in the skies over ukraine. >> well, admiral, let's also, though, talk about the past for one moment. there's just no way he could have sent -- there's no way the united states could have sent f-16s six months ago. i mean, it seems that as putin upped the ante, as things got more grim, it gave joe biden, it gave western allies an opening to send the anti-missile systems

since they were terrorizing children, grandmothers, everybody else, civilians, by shooting at apartment buildings and then, of course, the tanks. they came, again, after just more russian savagery. we can look back and say, well, gee, should have been sent six, nine months ago, but that really wasn't a possibility. i talked before about how some republicans that are running for office don't have the political touch. in this case, what biden has done, whether people want to hear it or not, i don't really give a damn if they don't want to hear it, because it's the truth. he's had an extraordinary touch through this entire process, knowing how far he can move, how far he could push his allies, how far he could push the russians, and so far, it's been about as good as any president in our lifetime. i would say this side of george h.w. bush going into the '91

war. >> i think that's a fair assessment overall. the only codicil i would put to the scarborough doctrine is that even taking those points, we could have, and this was katty's point a moment ago, perhaps we could have started the training earlier, just to be prepared for this moment. i think that's small beer compared to the extraordinary sweep of what's been done here, and i'm with you. i applaud the president and also national security advisor jake sullivan, secretary of state blinken, and my good friend and contemporary, secretary of defense, lloyd austin. this is a team that's done superbly in a very challenging scenario. >> all right. >> retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis, thank you very much for being on this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe," congressman seth moulton will be our guest. the massachusetts democrat is introducing a bipartisan resolution in the house today declaring a mental health crisis

among america's youth. he joins us to talk about it next on "morning joe." we'll be right back. nextn o"morning joe." we'll be right back.

my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain,

redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. and, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief

some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways!

only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ rev, i want to bring you in really quickly, following up on that last conversation about what joe biden's getting right in foreign policy. it's so fascinating. let's talk just the politics of it for a second. it doesn't really make a huge difference domestically in politics. it seems there's not great upside for the president managing the ukrainian war as well as he has, but the downsides,the risks are just huge. you look at afghanistan. that's the first time his approval rating dropped below 50%. so, if you get something right, the way he's getting this right, does it really have an impact in the polls? but if you get it wrong, if things go south, then, man, the

things turn bad even domestically for that, don't they? >> absolutely right. i think that it's more not making a misstep than the steps you are taking, getting credit for, but one misstep, people will never forget. but i also think the politics of this is when you look at how he has been able to, in a seamless way, handle so far what has happened with ukraine, and you compare his potential republican opponents, i couldn't imagine desantis or any of the crowd that is so far announced on republican side comparing to how he's handled the international problem with ukraine and how to deal with china and xi and how to deal with russia and putin. and then at the same time, deal with a debt ceiling relief and the same time dealing with other

domestic issues. you can't imagine them doing it with the kind of skill that he's been able to do this. you know, goes to whoever you want to be president, you want to be presidential. and i think that when you look at him this weekend with the g7 coming back to deal with mccarthy, it reinforces his presidential image. >> yeah, and you know, the thing is also you look at the other side, you look at donald trump, still having this bizarre relationship with vladimir putin that none of us understand. we didn't understand it in 2015 when he continued to praise putin. i said, well, he kills journalists. he kills politicians that are against him. trump goes, yeah, well, america kills people too, at least he's strong. all the way to this past weekend where people that donald trump considered to be his political opponents or political enemies were sanctioned by vladimir putin in russia, even people like me, brad raffensperger, and

rachel maddow and the attorney general of the state of new york who have nothing to do with foreign policy. if you cross donald trump, in the eyes of donald trump, vladimir putin puts you on a sanctions list? >> interesting. >> i mean, this is, again, one more example of these people that are saying, russian hoax? no. there's something there, and they know it. >> no, there's no question. when i saw you had made the list, i was, like, my god. but look at the company that you keep. >> it's like, why? why? exactly. >> maybe putin watches "morning joe." who knows? but i think that when you look at the fact that not only do you contrast what biden is doing in terms of standing up to russia, you have not only donald trump dealing with russia and having dealt with it when he was

president in a suspicious way, at his cnn town hall, he was defending putin as smart. i mean, this is a guy that has every opportunity he could shown that he has some soft spot there for putin at a time that putin is escalating against americans in terms of sanctions and is continuing to do what he's doing in ukraine and the whole world uniting around him as we saw g7 as part of the world that is doing that. >> all right. we're going to return back to this conversation in just a moment, but now, more and more experts are sounding the alarm on what they say is a mental health crisis among america's youth. a recent survey found 50% of people between the ages of 18 and 24 reported experiencing symptoms of anxiety and depression this year. our next guest is set to introduce a resolution today

that he hopes will get the ball moving on enacting policies that can help teens and young adults. joining us now, democratic congressman seth moulton of massachusetts. he's a combat veteran who served four tours with the u.s. marines, and it's great to have you on the show. i think everybody on this show agrees that the nation's kids are in crisis, that young adults are in crisis. what are you hoping to do to get bipartisan action to address these problems across the board? >> first of all, what the resolution hopes to do is bring attention to this crisis. 50%, one of every two adolescents in america, has faced a mental health crisis, and we're really not doing much about it. we're not even talking about it enough. but by talking about it in congress and telling schools and counties and cities across the country that you need to really devote resources to this crisis,

we hope to have an effect. one thing that i did a couple years ago is i passed 9 88, the nationwide three-digit mental health hotline, but still, not enough people know that it exists. we want everyone to know that if you have a mental health crisis or you see a friend who has a mental health crisis, dial 988. that's an example of one of the things that we need to bring attention to by having this resolution pass through congress. >> congressman, i was listening to a podcast that was presenting compelling evidence that the situation is particularly acute amongst teenage girls. actually, teenage girls in more liberal households because the parents tend to be more permissive of their access, specifically to social media, and if you chart the rise in mental health problems amongst teenage girls, you can see it correlates almost identically with the time that social media and social media apps have been available. we know there have been hearings on the hill in the past about things like instagram and teen girls.

what's being done to try to -- i don't know. do you limit access? do you control -- try to control the algorithms? what is being done by congress on this? >> it's a great question, because behind the scenes, we are having this debate. in fact, congressman chris stewart, republican of utah, fellow veteran, he and i passed this 988 law, and we're discussing right now whether we should some restris restrictions on social media. of course, there are a lot of members of congress who don't even want to touch this with a ten-foot pole. there will certainly be backlash if we start telling americans what you can and cannot access online. but the fundamental question is, do we need to do something to save lives? we haven't made a decision on that yet. we haven't come to a conclusion as to what the right thing is to do, but the fact that a lot of people don't want to do anything, it's the inaction that's paralyzing and every single day, more teen girls die. i'll tell you, as -- i'm about to get my 2-year-old and 4-year-old out of bed to take them to school, and i feel so

lucky that they're that young, that they don't have access to social media yet, because of this crisis that's happening before our eyes. >> congressman, good morning. jonathan lemire. i want to turn you to the ongoing debt ceiling negotiations, now just a little bit more than a week until the deadline. we know president biden and speaker mccarthy are meeting today. though they seem fairly far apart on a deal, even if they reach an agreement in the coming days, still a pretty heavy lift ahead in terms of getting the votes to get this passed in the house. particularly if mccarthy loses some far-right republicans, who just will object to all of it. so, let me ask you this. what is your confidence level about being able to get something passed, about having some democrats be willing to vote for this? >> look, i think democrats are going to do the right thing for the country. and that's what you have to understand about a negotiation. what is each side's bottom line? and democrats' bottom line

throughout this entire debate has been doing the right thing for the country. that's why we raised the debt ceiling four times under president trump. we didn't like what he was doing. we didn't like his tax cuts for the wealthy. we didn't like the cuts he was making to essential services for people who really need help in america. and yet, we raised the debt ceiling because it was the right thing to do for the country. but the republicans' bottom line is catering to these extremists. that's their bottom line. and if you're asking me to predict, you know, how far they will go, like how many times they will have to go through votes for the speaker just to get kevin mccarthy elected, i mean, this is like negotiating with terrorists. it's obscene. >> democratic congressman seth moulton of massachusetts, thank you very much for what you're doing. thanks for being on the show this morning. we appreciate it. and still ahead on "morning joe," republican senator tim scott is expected to jump in to the 2024 white house race today.

we'll get a live report from south carolina. plus, minnesota attorney general keith ellison was the lead prosecutor in the state's case against a former officer for the murder of george floyd. he's out now with a new guide to solving police brutality across the u.s., and he joins us ahead with that. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" isom cing right back (♪ music ♪) (♪ ♪) (♪ ♪) where could reinvention take your business? accenture. let there be change.

i need it cool at night. you trying to ice me out of the bed? baby, only on game nights. you know you are retired right? am i? ya! save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, special financing. only at sleep number. (vo) no matter what type of severe asthma you have... ...tezspire can help you have fewer asthma attacks... ...and breathe better. tezspire is an add-on treatment for people 12 and over. it is not a rescue medication. don't take tezspire if you're allergic to it. allergic reactions may occur and can be serious. rash or eye allergy can happen. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. sore throat, joint and back pain may occur. avoid live vaccines. no matter who you are, ask your asthma specialist about tezspire today. your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire.

i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

welcome back. 43 past the hour. brooks koepka claimed his third pga championship yesterday at oak hill country club. for the second straight major tournament, koepka took a lead in the final round, but this time did not cough it up, holing three early birdies and fending off a stiff challenge from viktor hovland. koepka is now the first player

from the liv golf circuit to win a major championship, adding a third wannamaker trophy to his pair of u.s. open titles. but the shot of the tournament belonged to a pga club pro from san francisco named michael block, who made the cut and started the final round tied for eighth. take a look. >> the fairy tale story. gets better. >> hole in one. >> no, no. no way. no way. did it go in? >> no way. block in disbelief. look at this. asking playing partner rory

mcilroy if his tee shot went in. block aced the 151 15th hole. his ball, dunking into the cup and sending fans into a frenzy. he would finish in a tie for 15th at one over, which secured him a spot in next year's pga championship. i need to see that. keep it rolling. oh my god. that's amazing. and i don't even like golf, but that's amazing. still ahead, a conversation on the state of voting rights and a major pledge to ensure everyone can make their voices heard in elections. but first, we're going to be joined by roger bennett, who was really going through it this weekend during the everton match. we'll she you what happened. not good. it's next on "morning joe." >> get it back in. >> get it back in. ♪ ♪

♪ live your best day, every day with the power of the gelflex grid. sleep better. live purple. with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us

we're traveling all across america, talking to people about their hearts. how's the heart? - good. - you sure? - i think so. - how do you know? let me show you something. put two fingers right on those pads. look at that! that's your heart! that is pretty awesome. with kardiamobile, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds, from anywhere. kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. kardiamobile is now available for just $79. order at kardia.com or amazon.

whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ i will be a travel influencer... hey, i thought you were on vacation? it's too expensive. use priceline, they've got deals no one else has. what about work? i got you. looking great you guys! ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪ let's race! put your foot on the ♪ go pedal for speed.ce ♪ yeah! reliability. it's showtime. here we go. and power. introducing the xfinity 10g network.

that was awesome. super-fast internet today. with even faster speeds tomorrow. you might wanna buckle up. only from xfinity. the future starts now. ♪ ♪ every day, businesses everywhere are asking. is it possible? with comcast business...it is. is it possible to help keep our online platform safe from cyberthreats? so we can better protect our customer data? absolutely. can we provide health care virtually anywhere? we can help with that. is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues? we can help with that, too. with global secure networking from comcast business. it's not just possible. it's happening.

>> come on. [ bleep ] [ cheers ] what you see is actually, you have roger bennett watching "morning joe." >> just his reaction. >> right after we were talking about baseball. no, nbc sports. >> roger, are you okay? >> roger bennett, all i can say is this. >> he's not okay. >> there's a reason why i didn't

have a camera on me this weekend as liverpool, as liverpool came up just short, i love this team, by the way, i love liverpool by the way, they came up just short of getting to europe, but i guarantee you that would have looked like child's play compared to what you just did. watching us struggle against aston villa. talk about deliverance. blessed deliverance. >> football and life -- let's look at the premier league, barrelling to its summit. arsenal football club, team

spent 248 days at the top only to crumble at the last, they had to win against nottingham forest. manchester city would clinch their fifth title in six seasons. in the 19th minute it all went to l.a. lakers. nottingham forest win 1-0 avoid being relegated to the equivalent of aaa football. it ended the title chase to manchester city repeat like the chicago bulls, but with abu dhabi money, they've been superlative down the stretch. yesterday 1-0 win against chelsea. fa cup final still ahead.

important to note, city currently face 115 charges of financial impro pryty from the premier league who awarded them five out of the six last titles. the biggest cliffhanger going into next week's final match, this is what i was reacting to. teams will be relegated. in the 99th minute they got, there will be many children running with that name in nine months time. to go down next weekend. in america, you give the worst teams the sports the number one draft pick and easy schedule. in england they get a swift kick and dispatch to door upside-down. life, there's death, there's

agony. >> well, there's agony. and i got to ask you about life people first of all, we said good-bye to bobby, hard to do, james milner, also, what's liverpool -- what do they need in the off-seasons? >> they need hope and patience. the boston red sox owners have been really sage leaders of your club. they can't compete with the ol gar chs, bobby a gentleman who played like a court jester, lethal a great goal score, something important about how he approaches life, always laughing, the joy, new life is very serious, also knew how surreal and ridiculous the whole

thing is, joe. >> just love watching him. finally, city, man, city is on fire, you see they just dismembered strategically real in the champions league, few people would have given them a chance to catch arsenal after the break, catch them they did and even jack grealish has looked inspired this season. >> yes, they are indeed. five out of six title winners, they're almost destroying the notion of fair competition and the oil money, the off the field charges but on the field they've created football as an art form. great chocolate, a little bit it's unbelievable to watch. if you eat the whole family size, you start to feel very

sick. >> wow. >> more american-style -- to create equal play, i bet that's the future of football. >> all right. roger bennett, thank you. i think. good to have you on this morning. still ahead here on morning joe, the 2024 republican field for president. expected to add two names this week. we'll tell you about a major effort to expand voting rights. "morning joe" is coming right back. coming right back the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas...

...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. (water splashing) hey, dad... hum... what's the ocean like? uh...

you were made to remember some days forever. we were made to help you find the best way there.

live look at the white house, beautiful shot of washington, d.c., it's 8:00 on the east coast. we're launching the third hour of "morning joe." on this monday, may 22nd, and you know, john lemire is still

here. >> jonathan zwe haven't talked about the red sox. >> they lost yesterday. look, two out of three on the road, you take that, it comes off the heels of two out of three against a pretty good mariners team. they're playing pretty good. they're defying expectations. they're still in fifth because the a.l. east is so loaded. they're exceeding where we thought they would be. >> let me tell you what, in boston, if they win two out of three, well, two out of three ain't bad, they're not in last place. >> they past the blue jays yesterday. >> the baltimore orioles, the jays supposed to be on this historic streak, nobody told the rays that the orioles were going

to have a great season also. jonathan, with about five months left, so tired of whining in the spring the red sox only 7.5 games back. we got half a year to go. everybody, get a paper bag, breathe into it. it's a long season. katie, i think your husband needs to come in when we have roger bennett talking about manchester city, we need him to counter. because i can't get roger to ever talk about what they do on the field, because all he's talking about is petro dollars and all of these other things. of course i get it. it's not like the owner of the l.a. rams is like broke, not like other people aren't spending a lot of money in english premier league football also. >> yeah, the glazer family isn't poor, either. too much of it and you feels like you have eaten a whole bar

of chocolate. watch city playing i think he's being too hard. i need to get tom on. he's a die-hard, i'll bring him on to counter roger. >> people don't understand what it's like to have been a city fan for in the dark days, because they always lost. it always rain outside of city stadium when they're losing. they sat in the rain, they surd for decades. roger, i think he's just jealous. he needs to take a break. >> nothing wrong with eating the entire chocolate cadbury bunny. >> you do it all the time. >> i know. >> all the time. >> i move on to second. republican senator tim scott expected to announce his bid for

president today in his hometown of north charleston, south carolina, senate republican w.h.i.p. john thune of south carolina will be there to officially endorse scott. tom llamas has more. >> reporter: this morning, there's new competition headed donald trump's way this the race for the gop nomination. the newest presidential candidate, the senate's only black republican, south carolina's tim scott. kicking off his 2024 white house bid in his hometown of north charleston today. >> kids are growing up immersed in a culture where everyone's a victim. >> reporter: the 57-year-old senator is expected to focus on his deep christian faith and his hard scramble upbringing in south carolina. >> my grandfather forced out of school live long enough to watch his grandson pick out a seat in

congress. >> reporter: scott has been the gop's leading voice on issues including policing and race relations while rejecting the idea that the country is racist. and he's reached across the aisle with friends with democratic senator cory booker. >> he may be one of those people that's underestimated. >> reporter: with donald trump leading the gop race, scott joins an increasely crowded lane of anti-trump candidates including south carolinian former u.n. ambassador nikki haley and mike pence expected to announce shortly along with the possibility of former new jersey governor chris christie also entering the race. and florida governor desantis officially set to announce his campaign this week as he shampens his attack on donald trump. >> his party has developed a culture of losing. >> reporter: it comes as desantis faces multiple battles

back in his home state including that ongoing feud with disney. naacp responding to his aggressive attempts to erase black history and to restrict diversity, equity and inclusion programs in florida schools. >> you know, it's fascinating, let's look at the map for a second here. jonathan lemire, iowa, that may be a state where ted cruz did well in 2016 that may be a state that desantis connects. then, you have have sununu run income new hampshire, 70% approval rating up there.

he could the second race. you go to south carolina, tim scott, i mean, you look where at tim scott is really powerful, republicans love the guy, he'll be going against nikki haley, i'd say tim scott in that third race in south carolina going to be a real power house. maybe nikki takes off, anything's possible. then you get down to florida, in desantis' home turf the polls are saying -- we've got a lot that's going happen between now and february of next year to donald trump and the legal system. get a lot that's going to happen when desantis is actually on the ground. doesn't look great for trump if these candidates run and this is a huge if, good, competitive races. >> right, you're right to sound

a note of caution for trump and his team. let's note, trump has never done great in iowa, not really his base and evangelical vote there could certainly turn to a scott or to a pence, in addition to desantis, we know desantis is putting a are the of time and money into iowa right now. new hampshire polls are still so early do show trump up significantly even on governor sununu. he's been a juggernaut in south carolina before he's never faced a home state candidate like he will this time around. there's a path there. you end it on the most important thing, can any of these republican candidates put together an actual good campaign? not only with resources, but also can they figure out a way to attack trump? stand toe to toe with him.

so far no one has. if they can that makes things interesting it's going to be interesting. meanwhile another republican senator said donald trump can't win the 2024 election. >> bill cassidy was asked about "the new york times" reporting that says florida governor desantis told say donors he and president biden and he can win. he explained why. >> during the last election cycle, in the all swing states, georgia, pennsylvania, nevada and arizona, that trump's -- the candidates for senate that trump endorsed all lost. if you taken the votes that went to other republicans and put together those republicans would have won, i think the president's kind of high profile endorsement of those candidates actually hurt those candidates at least in the general election. so if past is prolose that means

president trump is going to have a hard time in those swing states which means he can't win a general election. >> those comments follow ones last week by republican senator john cornyn of texas who said, quote, i think president trump's time has passed him by. >> you look at what happened in 2022, you look at what happened in 2020. i must say, and when i say that donald trump, i don't see how he wins a general election against joe biden, i'm not saying that about other republicans, i think ron desantis can beat joe biden. i think governor sununu could beat joe biden. i think tim scott can beat joe biden. nikki haley could beat joe biden. all those candidates would line up well against joe biden.

donald trump doesn't line up well against joe biden. so the question is, will the republicans put the only person up -- and i do believe of these major candidates donald trump is the only person they could put up that can't beat joe biden in a general election. they may. if they do it will be a historic mistake because they'll be locked out of the white house i believe for a generation, for a variety of reasons, they really need to win in '24 if they want to stop a lot of things that democrats are pushing for right now. they're not going to do that with donald trump. the founder of the conservative website of the bulwark, charlie sykes. it's just this crazy catch-22 that the republican party find itself in and they've been there

since 2017. i can go through the local races, the state races, the national races, they've all lost since 2017 because of donald trump except for the reddest of areas, but everyone knows that by now the question is, will the republican base pick the one candidate least likely to beat joe biden? >> well, joe, first of all, stop with the logic here, we're talking about the republican primary voters here, this is a republican primary party who can't quit donald trump. so they're completely capable of doing it. what i think is interesting and as you run through the various scenarios if the republicans nominate anyone else x 2024 will be a referendum on joe biden and his record. if republicans nominate donald

trump, 2024 will be about donald trump. joe biden doesn't need to do anything to whip up support. i think you're seeing that in some of the polls but also in focus groups. the question that i have about, and i'm interested to hear what david has to say about this, this is actually a rather impressive field that's forming but i have to say i still have 2016 ptsd the larger the field the better it is for donald trump, the more candidates the more it's divided. i'm also interested in seeing what kind of campaigns they run, whether they're going to run on various candidates are going to run real campaigns against donald trump or whether they're going to be running essentially -- campaigns, in other words, they're not running for president, they're not running against donald trump, they're running to increase their speaker fees, for vice president, we just don't know at this point. >> yeah, i mean you can run

aggressively against donald trump and still -- i mean, this guy can't win. this guy can't win. we have to get back into the business of winning. this isn't hard to do. i'm not sure why they can't do it. i want to ask you, david, let's talk about tim scott for a second, this is his day of his announcement, i note that the republican establishment especially republican senators that work with him love this guy, like he's their choice. tell me about tim scott and why it is that so many of his colleagues in the senate and also so many republican donors like tim scott. >> well, look, tim scott is a happy warrior, he's got a likable disposition, he's got an

infectious personality and he talks about the kind of issues in the kind of ways that a lot of republicans recalled fondly but that have been out of fashion with the republican base and the populous right, there's a lot there with tim scott to like, i watched him in iowa with voters, he works the stage without notes, not behind a podium, moving around like a preacher, cadence of a preacher and the crowd really aders him and i think there's a lot of potential there and why so many republicans like him. a black republican who's prominent, who has elements of presidential timber in him as far as we can tell so far, that's really attractive to republicans who want to diversity the party and show republicans and democrats in the media quite frankly this is not just a party that is overly focused on the white vote.

i think the question and charlie talked about this, no matter who you are, governor desantis, governor sununu, if you don't run a contrast campaign against the front-runner voters may be intrigued by you but they will not flock to you, republican voters want a fighter and the way you prove you're a fighter, i'm a broken record on this but this is a so key, you don't prove you're a fighter by being a pro-life republican, those are expected, you prove it bit fighting and fighting the front-runner and there's second element to this which is so many republican voters that are looking for an alternative to trump that are willing to back a republican, they may not necessarily like all of that much, but if that's the republican who can beat trump they'll get onboard, so you here

have a two-prong approach. >> david, going back to tim scott, and i agree with you, he's a nice guy, he's cordial, i disagree with his policies but he's very likable. at the same time, he was the one that we couldn't get onboard with george floyd bill and other things so he's die-hard conservative. having said that, is he challenged with how he contrasts in south carolina with nikki haley? nikki haley has taken a shot or two finally at donald trump, does tim scott stays away from that so the maga crowd sees him

differently than they see her? does he say i'm going to be aggressive, i'm going to be impressive, i'm not bing to alienate donald trump. >> well, look, i suppose that could be a strategy, and we've seen from nikki haley already for several months generally a voi dance of contrasting herself with donald trump but plenty of willingness to contrast herself with ron desantis. i'm curious to see from tim scott how much of his candidacy -- look, you have to have your own message, you have to talk about the issues, not enough to talk about electability. you have to communicate to them that you understand their problems. when the question comes from, why should i vote for you

instead of the front-runner? you have to be willing to answer the question at the very least. you is to do both and if there's strategy out there that says, well, we don't want to attack former president donald trump because we don't want to alienate his voters. we lived through this in 2016. it's a failed approach. >> charlie, i was reading don's great analysis in the post over the weekend of the 2022 midterms and he was pointing to a couple of groups who helped the democrats do as well as they did, one was women with no college degrees and voters under 35. voters under 35 they'll stay with democrats. not much chance for republicans to win this back. this group of women with no college degrees who with

republicans which group has the better chance of winning back republican voters. >> there's something about a presidential campaign that reveals who you really are, we're finding a lot out about ron desantis and nikki haley. i remember tim scott when he was sort of dipping his toe in was asked about a national abortion ban and gave us a rather con view lated word salad. we don't know, this is going to be running a gauntlet. running the gauntlet in republican primaries may mean making compromises or concessions to the fringes of the party that will make them less acceptable. so, you know, tim scott today will not necessarily be tim scott six, nine months from now and i guess that's the big

question that this meat grinder of the primary and the demands that the various kons tunesies will make on the campaign. every one of these candidates with the exception of ron desantis at this point has a chance to make some inroads into those voters. >> charlie sykes and david, thank you both for being on this morning. so on the democrat side, today the dirt road democrats pac has launched, pledging to, quote, help build the infrastructure that allows democrats to compete everywhere, the pac originally founded by former u.s. senate candidate jamie harrison expects to raise and spend up to six figures over the next cycle, among the races the organization intends to focus on includes governorships in north carolina, mississippi and kentucky, here now is their

latest ad, take a look. >> they are the forgotten places. from the dirt roads of the delta to the hills of appalachia. they are the back roads, bayous and small towns of every part of america, these places aren't forgotten by those who live here. or by those who are from here but by some in washington who say they are unwinnable because the politics here and the voters here can be as red as the dirt. but to win, or even to make inroads down these back roads we must show up. if democrats did 5% better in rural areas it would transform the political landscape across america. and that's what dirt road democrats is all about. taking on the tough races,

organizing and teaming up with candidates and state parties to take the fight to every part of our country even the parts the so-called experts say we can't win. we'll do what's hard, put in the time and make sure the work goes on to protect democracy, elect leaders who will bring us together and restore a belief in the promise of america in the forgotten places and everywhere in between. meanwhile, last week, we reported on a series of bills being pushed by republican lawmake ners texas that critics would make it harder to vote in state's most populated and most reliability blue county. since the 2020 election, identified 177 bills introduced in state legislatures across the country that the group says

would make it harder for people to vote and for those votes to be counted fairly. in response today the group priority usa is announcing $15 million effort to ensure every eligible voter can make their voice heard at the ballot box next year. and the deputy executive of priorities usa joins us now. it's good to have you on us with this morning. how do you plan to do this, accomplish this? >> so 10 million of that investment will fund or continue our little gags efforts, we've been involved in litigation since 2015, we challenged sup pressive laws across the country. so, the $10 million is an additional investment in that. 5 million will go to digital ads that we have twopd over the course of the last few cycles

that are designed to help voters navigate the voting process. as the laws are changing, more unnecessary barriers that come up the laws -- excuse me, the ads are designed to help voters navigate that depending on what state are, learning how to register. >> are there particular regions, states, counties that you guys are targeting where you feel like you might have the most success? >> well, it changes. we tend to work with our legal team just internally to kind of take a look at what's happening across the country. but we have been active, we're currently active in georgia, north carolina, new hampshire, michigan and pennsylvania. also many of the battle ground

states and so we build this work into every aspect of everything that we do at priorities and so we look at states based on the laws that are being passed and how they impact marginalized communities. >> are you working priorities working with those that are moving voters on the ground around voting rights, civil rights group, there's a big march on washington in august, churches, are there connections between those groups championing this issue along with priorities usa and this effort that you're doing in. >> yes, many of those groups are often plaintiffs in the lawsuits, they often -- we have taken feedback from them regarding how the laws are being implemented at the state level so we can make sure we do no harm through our litigation efforts and so in many cases a

lot of those groups we've either fund or co-plaintiffs in the cases. in the courtroom we show real-world impacts on the communities we're trying to help overcome the barriers. >> deputy executive of priorities usa, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead, we're digging into a new report about infighting among former president trump's legal team and what it means for the many investigations he's facing. plus, the marine veteran charged with manslaughter after a fatal chokehold on a new york city subway argues it has nothing to do with race. we'll take a look at that and why he's suggesting he would do it again. you're watching "morning joe." . we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and in sizes up to h-cup. find your new favorite bra today at knix.com ♪ ♪ every single day, businesses everywhere

are asking the exact same question: is it possible? well... with comcast business... it is. is it possible to help keep our online platform safe from cyberthreats? so we can better protect our customer data? aww-yeah. absolutely. what else you got? can we use predictive monitoring to address operations issues? before they even exist? we can help with that. can we provide health care virtually anywhere? we can help with that, too. even out here. you, sir. something on your mind? is it possible to survey foot traffic across all of our locations? with wifi analytics? easy. order for nina! can i teleport our guests to their rooms? technically, no. or power thousands of mobile check-ins while thousands of other guests check out? now that we can do. with the advanced connectivity and intelligence of global secure networking from comcast business. it's not just possible. it's happening.

clear of trials or in-person hearings in early august. she did not provide a reason in a letter, a copy which was obtained by nbc. that request may provide a clearer time line when any potential charges could be announced. in a separate letter to law enforcement last month, she said she'll announce any indictments during the state superior's court's fourth term that includes that august window. mean will one of donald trump's former attorneys took to the tv networks over the weekend to

blast another member of the former president's legal team speaking to cnn on saturday, tim accused of trump legal adviser epstein blocking he and others from getting information to his client. "the new york times" reports that several lawyers tried to stage an intervention with trump about epstein who they say has a habit of delivering the former president good news even when the circumstances are grim. he also accused epstein over the weekend from trying to stop trump's lawyers from searching the new jersey's kate for classified document and he wasn't very honest with us and with the client on certain

things. >> you said that he tried to prevent you from conducting search and the searches at bedminster. he didn't want us doing the search. >> wow, the other lawyers representing trump didn't comment on his departure. a spokesperson for trump called his accusations about epstein categorically false. >> despite the fact that other person have said the same thing. jonathan, it looks like palletori, this may be a cia operation, some found responsible, we've seen judges make some rulings for keeping information from the federal government, what do you make of this latest move? >> yeah, i think there's a lot of the lawyers who represent

donald trump, as the joke goes, need lawyers himself, boris epstein, he's been in the trump orbit since 2016, he worked on that campaign, he wanted a white house job, denied it because others in the professionals -- the adults in the room during that 2017 after trump took office in 2017 rejected him. he never strayed too far from donald trump. and there are plenty in the trump orbit who say he's trouble. and indeed echo what palletori said there. that's led to some of donald trump's legal trouble. worth connecting that to what mika just said, we're getting a much clearer idea of when this could come. georgia may be the case that

poses the most legal peril for donald trump. it looks like mid-august is when we'll learn about this and where he and a number of associates could potentially face charges. coming up, we'll go live to charleston, south carolina, where senator tim scott is expected to jump into the republican race for president. nbc's ali vitali has a preview just ahead on "morning joe." (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good.

[whistle] rover! he will bark at you once, but then you're best friends for life. helicopter on your finger to get his attention like this. king king... ♪ he loves people. can't wait. ♪♪

♪ the all-new chevy colorado is made for more. bring more. ♪ do more. ♪ see more. ♪ and be more. ♪ the all-new chevy colorado. made for more. ♪

the marine veteran who choked a man to death on a new york city subway three weeks ago is speaking out the for first time. charged with second mans laubter in the death of jordan neely. >> reporter: nearly three weeks since the subway encounter the man seen holding jordan neely in

the deadly choke hold is breaking his silence saying he would take the same action under similar circumstances. in the interview near his hometown the 24-year-old marine veteran and college student said this had nothing to do with race, i judge a person based on their character. penny who's accused of second degree manslaughter. wouldn't go into detail of what led up to the confrontation. his lawyers said that penny acted in self-defense after neely aggressively threatened him and others onboard. penny wasn't initially arrested, quickly spawning protests. on friday, hundreds gathered to

remember the 30-year-old street performer. >> we keep criminalizing people with mental illness. they don't need abuse, they need help. >> reporter: when asked what penny would say to neely's family, he said, i'm deeply saddened by the loss of life. it's tragic what happened to him. hopefully we can change the system that's so desperately failed us. penny faces up to 15 years in jail if convicted of manslaughter. >> joining us now president of the national action network and host of msnbc politics nation, reverend al sharpton. rev al game the eulogy at the funeral on friday.

what do you think needs to happen moving forward? >>, his family clearly is struggling with the loss of life, of someone they loved, right at the same church they we had the funeral, the same place 14 years ago that funeralized jordan neely's mother, jordan sitting there, this triggered a lot of his mental illness even going further, they're sitting in the same church looking at a casket of a young man who should have had help and who the system did not even though they knew he had problems, never really dealing with the mental illness issue, the center of what they said, he need help.

how he was able to fall through the cracks of the city bureaucracy. he's choked by someone who came up behind him and claimed self-defense, very difficult for the family and still is, luckily their attorney and the other attorneys are really try to see they want the they allowing the debt ceiling to cut short a presidential trip aimed at pressuring beijing? that's all ahead on "morning joe."

how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost... just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, special financing. only at sleep number. narrator: it's called, “shared leadership.” driven by each community in a groundbreaking setting: california's community schools. where parents and families, students and educators,

make decisions as one. creating the school and shaping futures - together. based on the needs of their students... ...steeped in local culture. curriculum from cyber security to gardening. and assisting families with their needs: wellness centers, food pantries, and parental education. california's community schools: reimagining public education. our customers don't do what they do for likes or followers. their path isn't for the casually curious. and that's what makes it matter the most when they find it. the exact thing that can change the world. some say it's what they were born to do... it's what they live to do... trinet serves small and medium sized businesses... so they can do more of what matters. benefits. payroll. compliance. trinet. people matter.

in this week's sunday sitdown oscar isaac joined willie geist to discuss his broadway debut and putting his music career on hold to pursue acting. >> pretty cool walking to work knowing that your face is up on a broadway marquee. >> my son came up and started laughing. you look weird. >> tough critics. >> reporter: the sign this window at the james earl jones theater says oscar isaac. >> don't you understand, man. >> reporter: the 44-year-old actor making his broadway debut in a play that has been staged only three times since it premiered nearly six decades ago. >> the sign in the window is a play, she was the playwright behind "a raisin in the sun."

>> it was a real protest play, right at the precipice at the sigh dellic movement. this is that moment that she's writing about. >> the moment is 1964. in new york's greenwich village, where the social activist lives with his wife iris, played by rachel brosnahan. ♪♪ >> isaac has been here before, playing a struggling '60s folk singer in the cohen brother's movie. it introduced isaac to movie audiences.

but sidney brewstein brings him back to his roots on the stage. >> there's something about those characters that i find heartbreaking and beautiful, the ones that seem to not be people that are worthy of our attention and yet still have something to say. >> sidney wants to change the world. he can be a little self-righteous at times. >> yeah. >> there are moments of misogyny. what does he represent in this picture that you just painted in the story? >> he's disillusioned with politics, he just wants to go off to the mountain with his banjo and his wife. it's a reckoning that starts to happen. >> i hurt terribly today. that hurt is desperation and desperation is energy. >> it's a long, complicated, provocative play and connecting

with people in such a deep way with a play that has so much to say. it's just been incredibly rewarding. >> is part of the dream ending up on broadway? >> i remember coming with my dad in the '80s and being like i'd like to do that. >> he immigrated with his parents from guatemala. he grew up in a deeply religious household. the family moved around before settling in miami. there, a young oscar fell in love with movies and music. >> it was constantly coming to a new place trying to figure out what role to play. >> when did you decide acting might be my thing? >> as early as i could remember i was doing that. i was trying to do it at school. my dad had a video camera. i would make movies. once i was in high school, i started doing more music and bands and at the same time making movies with my friends.

it seemed like that was the path that i needed to surrender to this thing that was happening ♪♪ >> so you have that band. there's a moment where you play maybe in the same festival as green day? >> we opened for green day, but we just happened to play at the same festival in like a stage maybe like five hours before, but it's okay. >> isaac put music on hold to pursue acting, enrolling in new york's juliard school at 21. >> you're not going to like what'll happen once i get involved? >> his classmate there jessica chastain has become a costar. >> please let me go, please? >> she was such a cheerleader for me. i've stayed close ever since.

>> isaac spent a decade making his name and he's been on a roll ever since, becoming an international star while playing poe in the multibillion dollars "star wars" sequel trilogy. was there anything daunting about it? >> yeah. i guess i've never been smart enough to think about it in those terms. >> don't overthink it, yeah. >> yeah. that was daunting was being part of that machinery and of course what it means to a lot of people, especially little kids that look up to a character that looks a bit more like them. still latino actors, it's few and far between. there's more, but it's still a very special thing. >> up next, another iconic franchise with the animated

spider-man across the spider verse. >> the question is who is spider-man, who gets to tell that story? the one i get to play is a half mexican, half irish spider-man. he's the one not funny spider-man. all spider men are so good with the quips and he doesn't have that, which in itself is kind of hilarious. >> you got more broadway down the road? >> i mean, yeah. it feels like playing the same songs every night, but it feels different. ♪♪ coming up, we'll go to capitol hill where congress has just days left to raise the debt

ceiling. se the deb ceiling. what are folks 60 and older up to these days? getting inspired! volunteering! playing pickleba...!

my active psoriatic arthritis can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin and less joint pain are possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to skyrizi, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement... and that means everything.

♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time to ask your doctor about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

♪♪ live look at los angeles, where it's just about 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, kind of a hazy, cloudy day. it's 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. jonathan lemire, katty kay and reverend al sharpton are still with us. good to have you back with the fourth hour of "morning joe." kevin mccarthy will sit down at the white house again today in hopes of hashing out differences on the debt ceiling. plus, an update on ukraine as there are conflicting claims about who controls the devastated city of bakhmut. also, we'll be joined by minnesota's attorney general. his new book gives an inside

look at prosecuting the officer who killed george floyd. and we'll go through new data on the pandemic's impact on mental health and what can be done to address those simmering issues. we begin with negotiations over a deal that would lift the nation's debt ceiling ahead of a hard deadline early next month, in a matter of days. president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy will meet later today for a one-on-one meeting which comes as talks broke down but then restarted over the weekend. let's bring in capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles for more. >> reporter: good morning. there is no doubt this meeting between president and the house speaker will be crucial as these negotiations continue. it must be a good sign that the two men are willing to meet face to face, this after negotiates

met behind closed doors last night. a high-stakes showdown in washington expected today at the white house between president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy as the clock ticks down toward a default deadline. >> we've got to be able to solve this problem. >> reporter: the two will meet face to face without other congressional leaders after what was described as a productive call on sunday, biden sounding optimistic, returning from the g7 summit. at the summit, the president insisting default is off the table. >> i've done my part to put forward a proposal that cuts spending. >> reporter: as well as revisiting invoking the 14th and amendment to raise the debt ceiling alone. though treasury secretary janet yellen cast doubt on that. >> i certainly haven't changed

my assessment, so i think that's a hard deadline. >> reporter: the clock is ticking for a bipartisan compromise. throughout negotiations, republicans have demanded to curb overall spending and pressing on trump-era tax cuts that could add over $3 trillion to the debt. >> it's time for republicans to accept there's no bipartisan deal to be made solely, solely on their partisan terms. >> reporter: we spent a lot of time focused on this june 1st deadline, the date that the treasury secretary says the government will run out of ability to pay its debt. in reality, if they're going to come to an agreement, they need to do that sooner than june 1st. there's a whole legislative process that has to play out. the important part for kevin mccarthy is selling whatever deal he makes with joe biden to his house republican caucus. as you well know, that is no

guarantee. >> thank you very much for that report. >> you know, jonathan lemire, again, it's just a question of what you're going to be able to pass. democrats aren't going to be able to pass a clean debt ceiling. they're just not. republicans aren't going to be able to pass a debt ceiling that just looks at cutting domestic spending. again, that's going to get this country in a situation where they default. listen, the stakes are high. did we just cross $32 trillion in debt? so i understand the concerns on both sides, but they're going to have to come to an agreement quickly, because again, the consequences of not coming to an agreement is devastating for everybody. >> even if a deal is reached between biden and mccarthy, you have to whip the votes.

this is going to be really hard. it's going to take a few days. some people think if the deal is not reached by, say, thursday or friday, that's enough and we may be plunging over the cliff after june 1st. we'll be watching how the markets respond. to this point, they have been acting like a deal is baked in. let's hope that's the case. if something really turns later this week and you can start to see the markets rattled, maybe that will force a deal. military spending was a big piece of this. biden and the white house said we should keep it flat next year, which is a bit of a cut, while republicans wanted huge increases in military funding. therefore, to bring down all domestic spending, rather sharp cuts the white house says are draconian. they're pretty far apart right now. biden and mccarthy expected to meet this afternoon at the white

house. we'll see if they can make any head way here. the war in ukraine is approaching its 15th month of fighting. for at least half of that time, a huge battle has raged for bakhmut. now, russia is claiming to have captured that territory, where both sides invested a huge amount of blood. >> reporter: this morning, the bloodiest battle of this war for the eastern city of bakhmut appears to be winding down for now. over the weekend, ukraine losing its last major stronghold. visiting the front line, a top ukrainian commander admitting his troops only retain an insignificant part of the city. on sunday, russian state tv

trumpeting mission accomplished. state tv broadcasting images not independently verified of soldiers waving flags. both sides paid dearly. the exact number of military casualties is unknown, but estimates are well into the tens of thousands. as sun set on bakhmut last night, the smoldering remains of the city of 80,000, satellite images from 2022 and this month show a vast uninhabitable waste land. >> there is nothing. >> reporter: over the weekend president zelenskyy wrapping up a successful visit to the g7 summit and returning home with u.s. military aid and finally

the commitment for fighter jets he's been asking for. in bakhmut, the leader of the wagner group yevgeny prigozhin says he'll put out his fighters by thursday. >> the costs are just absolutely devastating to russians. over 100,000 casualties. i mean, more casualties, we're hearing, from the russians than we suffered and others suffered during the battle of the bulge at the peak of fighting in europe in world war ii. this is just an absolutely devastating situation obviously for both sides, but no one can claim victory here, because this has gutted the russian military. >> joining us from london is

keir simmons. coming out of the g7 summit, where do things stand with the west's approach to russia and china? >> reporter: it's complicated and high stakes enough to send most diplomats back to bed with a headache. on the russia side, you have that picture in bakhmut, you have new sanctions on both sides. the biden administration is opening the door to f-16s. zelenskyy at the g7 coming face to face with prime minister modi of india, india of course buying all that cheap oil. and chinese economic coercion, china swiftly condemning that as smears and lies. it was just weeks ago after hours of talks that jake sullivan and wang yi seem to have broken the deadlock and

there was hopeful talk about maybe a trip to beijing by sullivan or blinken or keri or yellen. we spoke to a senior diplomat from the chinese embassy in washington. there are some concerns yet to be addressed by the u.s. side, including the investigation of limiting china's investment and he says the false accusations of overseas police stations. clearly there were a lot of arguments to counter that statement by that chinese diplomat. it shows there's been some talks but not enough potentially for a high-level visit to beijing or for a phone call between president biden and president xi. juxtapose that against what's

going on in europe. you see multiple chinese diplomats touring europe, the foreign minute administer has been in ukraine. he's been in poland. he's going to germany france and then russia. he seems to have been told the only way to do a deal with ukraine is for russia to withdraw from sovereign territory. clearly what's happening, china is holding the u.s. at arm's length for talks while talking a lot to the europeans. to add to the complication, we spoke to congresswoman nancy mace to give us a statement. she is quite a unique voice in the republican party. this is what she said. china is an adversary to the united states. european allies must choose to

stand with china or the united states. we cannot allow them to continue to play both sides. it is incredibly complicated. just remember this. amid all this, you now have this talk of not decoupling from china, but derisking, but no one seems to know quite what that means. then there's the question of whether china is actually fire walling in some way, preventing russia from issuing those nuclear threats. again, it is incredibly high stakes. it's a kind of boiling stew. it's very difficult to see where things go. i wouldn't bet on more high level talks between the u.s. and beijing at this point. >> with all due respect to the congresswoman, this isn't 1945. it's not even 2005. the europeans will continue

working with china and continue working with us, just like our allies in the middle east will as well. we passed some time ago, a decade ago, we passed the point where we could tell saudi arabia or egypt deal with us, don't deal with anybody else. it is a bipolar world. it is almost a multipolar world. so, yeah, things have gotten a lot more complicated, but we actually have to know how to play the chess board globally in a way that takes all those different balancing acts into account and somehow figure out how to come out on top. >> certainly the europeans would like to say it's a tri polar world, but it's not just china and the united states. >> exactly. >> it's an enormous trading bloc

with potentially huge clout. there are issues they're going to try and work with them on. there are concerns. i've spoken to people here in washington who are a little concerned about the very hawkish, bipartisan nature of the conversation here in washington about china at the moment. not saying that china doesn't deserve some of the condemnation it's getting, but the breakdown in diplomacy between washington and beijing is alarming and it's alarming to europeans. maybe it's in the world's best interest if at least somebody is talking to the chinese and if america's western allies in europe are talking to the chinese, that may be no bad thing. >> keir, it's to critical in figuring out the balancing act that the united states presidents, republicans or democrats, are going to have to

make moving forward. the united states has a gdp of over $20 trillion. the eu has a gdp of over $20 trillion. when you add the british to that, you know, it even surpasses the united states. so, taken together, the united states and the eu standing shoulder to shoulder is without a doubt the most powerful force in the world. at the same time, the europeans are chasing -- and i know, i've talked to some leaders personally who said they don't trust the way we maneuver around them and china, that somehow the united states always seems to get the better part of the deal. >> yeah. it does get difficult when countries look out for their national interests. that includes allies as well as adversaries. you can see the enormous stakes

involved in this. another interesting question is this, joe, and i don't know the answer, what is beijing trying to do here? is it trying to hold the u.s. at arm's length while it talks to europe? or can some the concerns in beijing about how this plays out be understood? for example, when it comes to the unmanned air ship, there is this investigation under way in washington. the chinese are looking at that and thinking at some point that's going to report. why would we agree to have a yellen or a blinken or sullivan come to beijing only to see that report be released? some of this does seem to be kind of out of control. how you get the diplomacy back in a may that you might want it

to be, for example, if you're washington and you want to talk to beijing about nuclear threats from russia, how you get that back doesn't seem to be easy, but incredibly important. >> incredibly important. mika, we've been hearing about a pivot to asia now for about 20 years. >> yeah. >> it's finally happened. the united states has a more muscular presence in the guam and the philippines, japan, australia. the last two years have been fairly extraordinary in how much stronger our alliance by china has been. but that adds complexity. don't just look at things from the u.s. side. try to figure out what you're doing. obviously china is trying to

figure out how to divide and conquer our allies in europe. they're not going to do that, but that's what they're trying to do. that's something we have to stay cognizant of. >> keir simmons, thank you very much. >> thank you. now to how republicans continue to hammer president biden for being weak when it comes to china. >> just not true, but whatever. >> our next guest argues it's the gop's manufactured debt crisis that forced the president to cut short his overseas trip, one that was designed to shore up influence with countries in the region and pressure beijing. joining us now, professor of journalism and political science at suny university of new york peter barnhart. >> peter, this argument that biden's made us week with china, again, if you look at how we've

strengthened our presence in guam, alliances in the philippines, japan, australia, it doesn't hold a lot of water. then you start looking at the argument about bringing biden back for this manufactured debt ceiling crisis actually makes republicans look far more responsible. >> that's right. the irony is that republicans are trying to define themselves as the tough on china party, as you say, constantly attacking biden for not being tough enough and even doing crazy things like preventing chinese nationals from even buying property in the u.s. yet, here they're creating this debt crisis at a very time when biden is going to asia to try to visit some countries where china has made inroads and he has to come back because america's political system is completely dysfunctional because republicans won't increase the debt. what republicans don't seem to understand is that ultimately

this is a competition between political and economic systems. if you make america's political system look completely bankrupt and dysfunctional, you're making america weak vis-a-vis china. >> my senior white house aides told me last week when the decision was made to pull down the back half of the trip, they were deeply frustrated. the whole point of the trip is to say, hey, america is here, we have a presence, we're a bulwark to china's rising influence. it's more than that. chatter at the g7 is how reliable is the u.s. right now? if they were to default, global implications would be massive. it seems to fuel these worried whispers. there's still at least the chance that donald trump could be president again. >> right. what the u.s. is saying to allies in asia is, you can count on us, we will be here.

those countries in asia know that china will be there. the u.s. keeps doing things that suggest that, in fact, it's not a reliable partner. yes, the u.s. can increase defense spending. it can put in new military bases in the philippines and other things. ultimately, what we learned from the cold war is that economic strengths, that the health of your political system is ultimately at the core of what makes you a strong country. if the u.s. doesn't have that in order, it ultimately isn't going to prevail. >> some of the fallout from the hard line that the republicans are taking has also spilled over in many cases with the rise of hate crimes against asians in america. talk to us about how there is the tension between the rhetoric they've given and how just average asian americans have

been victimized with increase in hate crimes. >> the u.s. has a very dark history when it comes to demonizing people that we associate with foreign enemies. the u.s. was vicious toward german americans during world war ii. we put japanese in internment camps during world war ii. there were asian americans beaten and killed in the '80s when people were afraid of japan. we have a history of doing this. so you have to be extremely careful to make the point that we have a competition with a government, not with the entire chinese people and certainly not with everyone who is chinese or looks chinese in the united states. we need to continue to allow people to immigrate to our shores from asia, because it makes us a stronger country. i won't even repeat donald trump's racist comments about covid. now we're seeing it at the said

level. that builds something that is very difficult to contain. >> thank you very much for being on this morning. later today, republican senator tim scott of south carolina is expected to officially announce a run for president. scott will reportedly be joined today by the number two republican in the senate, john thune, who will be endorsing the soon-to-be presidential candidate. joining us now, is ali vitali live from north charleston, south carolina. >> reporter: we're here at senator tim scott's alma mater, where we expect he's going to make official the thing he's been teasing for the last few months with trips to new hampshire and iowa and of course in his home state of south carolina, the fact that we expect scott to officially announce his presidential bid this morning. it comes after he filed a statement of candidacy with the

fec on friday. the campaign in waiting has long touted the fact that this is a candidate who may come into the race at the back of the polls, but he's coming in with a large war chest from which they hope to build his national name id and his national brand. they're wasting no time, up with a $6 million ad buy in iowa and new hampshire. that's going to get on the air on wednesday and be up throughout the rest of the summer. i think it stands to note that money is something that all these campaigns are going to need, but the fact that scott has more than $20 million cash on hand allows him to do more than other campaigns are able to do at this point in the cycle. that's really important, especially when it comes to building enough name id to get polling numbers up to get him on the debate stage in august.

his faith in america tour is now becoming his faith in america campaign. senior advisors say to me it's tim scott's face and persona they're looking to push to the american public. we don't expect contrasts in terms of policy or in terms of going after former president trump. they say it's less on message and more on messenger. i think we've all heard this before when it comes to donald trump. that's going to be a tough message to actually execute. the bigger the field gets, the better the trump team feels it is for them because it's more ways this vote can split. >> jonathan lemire, i'm curious of your thoughts on tim scott, how he shakes up the race.

you've got ron desantis, who could be a very strong candidate in iowa. they're certainly focusing on iowa, because they saw exactly what happened back in 2016 with ted cruz's candidacy beating donald trump. then you go to new hampshire. again, polls be damned right now the year before, you've got an extraordinarily popular new hampshire governor with approval ratings in the 70s who may be jumping into the race there. you go to south carolina and you've got tim scott and nikki haley in south carolina. you go down to florida next and it's ron desantis's home state, where he won by a massive landslide. again, right now donald trump no doubt is way ahead of everybody. i'm just curious, though, eight, nine months, possibly two or

three indictments later and suddenly these other republicans look like they can actually divide and conquer and beat donald trump. >> first on senator scott, who is extraordinarily well liked on capitol hill on both sides of the aisle. he's probably going to pick up quite a bit of establishment support, which doesn't translate to much in republican primaries in recent cycles because of donald trump. but scott is someone people view as a credible candidate. there's already speculation he could also be a potential vice presidential candidate were trump to be the nominee. you're right to point out the calendar. there are a few land mines for trump. right now, yes, he's head and shoulders above the rest of the field. desantis hasn't even jumped in yet. he's got time to turn it around and certainly he's got money.

there are other states as well where potentially trump could face some competition. the key here, it's early and we don't know how indictments could change things. >> we'll watch his rollout today. facebook's parent company meta has been fined a record $1.3 billion by european privacy regulators for violating data protection rules. the company was ordered to stop all transfers of data collected from facebook users in europe to the u.s. the decision applies only to facebook and not other meta-owned platforms such as instagram and whatsapp. the company says it plans to appeal. >> it always seems that europe is the cutting edge on these sort of suits and these sort of fines, because the united states' regulators are more conservative generally. i don't just mean identity

logically. this is a massive fine and an important signal that's being sent that i'm sure u.s. regulators are picking up. >> yes, especially at a time when there is growing concern here about the impact of all these tech companies. they're saying all of the data collected by facebook in europe can't be sent back to america because it's too vulnerable to being picked up by u.s. spy agencies. but really this is an excuse almost for the eu to try and regulate these companies. they've said from the beginning these companies need more regulation. they're too big, too uncontrolled. the spy agency thing is really a way to send a message to facebook and the others that we are watching you and we are going to try to control you. it will be interesting if the u.s. looks at this and says, after all of the discussions,

are we really going to do something to regulate what are effectively now communications companies. coming up, an inside account of the trial surrounding the former minneapolis police officer convicted of murdering george floyd. the lead prosecutor in the state's case, minnesota attorney general keith ellison joins us next on "morning joe." n joins us next on "morning joe." ♪ the thought of getting screened ♪ ♪ for colon cancer made me queasy. ♪ ♪ but now i've found a way that's right for me. ♪ ♪ feels more easy. ♪ ♪ my doc and i agreed. ♪ ♪ i pick the time. ♪ ♪ today's a good day. ♪ ♪ i screened with cologuard and did it my way! ♪ cologuard is a one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ i did it my way! ♪

whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ the all-new chevy colorado is made for more. bring more. ♪

do more. ♪ see more. ♪ and be more. ♪ the all-new chevy colorado. made for more. ♪

34 past the hour. the trials of derek chauvin and the other officers involved in the 2020 death of george floyd were among the most closely watched in recent memory. now, we're getting a new look at the case through the eyes of the attorney general who prosecuted it. joining us now, minnesota attorney general keith ellison. he gives his firsthand account of the case in his new book "break the wheel, ending the cycle of police violence." it's great to have you back on

the show. >> thank you. >> i guess i'll start by asking what are some of the aspects of this case that you reveal in this book that might have been lost in the coverage? >> well, just because it took us a lot of time and energy to all get on the same page, this murder of george floyd impacted all the lawyers, legal workers and folks individually. some folks were telling me they were crying as we were going through some of the conversations we had to prepare for the case. others had differences of opinion on how we should approach the matter. but we all did get on the same page. we were a strong team, but we had to work to get there. sometimes behind the scenes you just can't see that from the outside. but we did settle on a few key things. one is that the medical case is critical. we had to make sure the chain of causation is tight. we also had to agree we were

going to feature the people there on the scene firsthand, none of whom knew george floyd. the book talks about all those things. it's "break the wheel" because we want to break the cycle of injustice. >> you know that i was involved from day one. >> yes, you were. >> thursday is the third anniversary. >> yes. >> may 25th, of george floyd being killed. and the beginning of it, to get you involved, because there was the tension with the local prosecutor and many of us in the civil rights community talked to the governor, saying you had to give this to you. i don't know how much credit you took from this, but this was monumental to get you to take the case, because i don't know if the local d.a. had taken, it would have resulted in this thing. then you got convictions. it was the first time we had

convictions of a police officer like that in all the years i've been involved. this was monumental. this was really a history-making decision. as you know, i was giving the family comfort that we may not get a conviction, because i've been through so many losses. i was trying to dampen down things. you kept saying, rev, we're going to be solid on this. >> you gave that really heart rending eulogy for george floyd. all of us remember how you talked about get off our neck. that really was an important moment. also yourself, also reverend jackson, also the family saying we've got to put this in the hands of a prosecutorial authority that's going to see this through. the local d.a. mike freeman did a good job. we worked together, which is

something that you urged us to do. at the end of the day, it was the people. you were a voice for the people, but the people who demanded this be handled differently. i've come to the conclusion that prosecuting these matters is the key to making the numbers go down. we saw in memphis, tennessee, the prosecutor, the police chief, everybody is taking this thing way more seriously when it comes to tyre nichols. we haven't seen a delay in the release of the videotape. i think that's because of the precedent you and many others laid down. >> you set the template on how to do these cases. to get convictions on all three and all of tears. but the thing i think people missed, which meant a coming an the family. sometimes, even activists see the cause, you see the case.

you cared about the family, the human price people pay to lose a loved one. >> people who lose their loved ones to police brutality are crime victims. any prosecutor worth his or her salt is going to make the victims the center. this is something i felt compelled to do. our team said we're going to make sure they know everything that's going on, that they feel heard and supported. that's why i'm glad george floyd's brother wrote the forward to the book "break the wheel." i hope folks take a look at this too. >> obviously this was seen as a significant moment, to the rev's point, but it's still very much a crisis in this country. things just keep happening. is there a lesson or two from the book we should take that could give us some hope that one day things will change? >> yeah. first of all, a prosecution is

critical and important in situations where it is warranted. you've got to prosecute criminal behavior. you simply can't operate with impunity when you see criminal conduct, whether the person has a badge or not. then you need administrative responses like firing. our chief arredondo fired these officers immediately. people like rev and others demanded that happen. there's got to be prosecution for criminal conduct, firing for improper rule violations, and then that will set the scene for things like training and other things like that to really take hold. we have not seen a reduction in police violence since this tragic incident, but we have seen a lot of responses on the local level. we've seen a lot of passages of laws to ban chokeholds, things like stopping no-knock warrants. we have not seen the passage of the george floyd justice in policing act. i think congress has got to get its eyes back on the ball to

pass this critical legislation. >> the book is entitled "break the wheel, ending the cycle of police violence." minnesota attorney general keith ellison, thank you very much for coming on the show. congratulations on the book. >> thank you. thank you all. and coming up, an impressive reception for martin scorsese's latest film. we'll show you that straight ahead on "morning joe." that stt ahead on "morning joe. ng something you love. rsv could cut it short. rsv is a contagious virus that usually causes mild symptoms, but can cause more severe infections that may lead to hospitalizations, in adults 60 and older - and adults with certain underlying conditions, like copd, asthma, or congestive heart failure. talk to your doctor and visit cutshortrsv.com. oh booking.com, ♪ i'm going to somewhere, anywhere. ♪

♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. moving forward with node- positive breast cancer is overwhelming. but i never just found my way; i made it. and did all i could to prevent recurrence. verzenio reduces the risk of recurrence of hr-positive, her2-negative, node-positive, early breast cancer with a high chance of returning, as determined by your doctor when added to hormone therapy. hormone therapy works outside the cell... while verzenio works inside to help stop the growth of cancer cells. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal, and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs,

shortness of breath, chest pain, and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you are nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. i'm making my own way forward. ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. when i was his age, ask your doctor about we had to be inside to watch live sports. but with xfinity, we get the fastest mobile service and can stream down the street or around the block! hey, can you be less sister, more car? all right, let's get this over with. switch to xfinity mobile and get the best price for 2 lines of unlimited. just $30 a line per month. i should get paid more for this. you get paid when you win. from xfinity. home of the 10g network.

♪♪ 44 past the hour. a live look at dallas. martin scorsese's latest film is receiving high praise. "killers of the flower moon" premiered at the cannes film festival in france on saturday. [ applause ] >> that standing ovation just kept on going. the 3 1/2 hour film received a 9-minute standing ovation. the film is based on the true story of unsolved murders of several osage indian trial

members. it stars leonardo dicaprio and robert de niro. >> it's an extraordinary career. martin scorsese has had an extraordinary career. many are saying that actually this movie is the best of his entire career, just a breathtaking achievement by martin scorsese. coming up, does therapy really work? we'll unpack that question posed in the new issue of the "new york times" magazine. "morning joe" will be right back. magazine "morning joe" will be right back ith e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ finally we can eat. ♪ you know you make me wanna...♪ and then we looked around and said, wait a minute, this isn't even our stroller! (laughing) you live with your parents, but you own a house in the metaverse? mhm.

cool...i don't get it. here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?! ♪ yeah, yeah ♪ i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! and i'm about to steal this game from you

just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. game over. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, yeah, like me. thanks, bro. take a lap, rookie. real mature. ♪♪ allergies don't have to be scary. (screaming) defeat allergy headaches fast with new flonase headache and allergy relief! two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good! our customers don't do what they do for likes or followers.

their path isn't for the casually curious. and that's what makes it matter the most when they find it. the exact thing that can change the world. some say it's what they were born to do... it's what they live to do... trinet serves small and medium sized businesses... so they can do more of what matters. benefits. payroll. compliance. trinet. people matter.

a recent pugh research analysis found 4 in 10 u.s. adults experience high levels of psychological distress at some point during the pandemic. during that same time period, experts say more americans sought mental health care than before. in 2021, 42 million adults 42 m signed up for a type of treatment compared to just 27 million in 2002. the latest issue of "the new york times" magazine has a series on therapy and its effects including one that looks into whether therapy actually works. staff writer for "new york times" magazine, susan dom news

who writes about how soch researchers are having concern about the success rate. thanks for being on this piece. so interesting. you look at the reliability of therapy, does it actually reduce suffering? in some cases, especially talk therapy, it's a resounding yes, but is it the type of therapy or what did you find? >> well, actually there's a lot of research to suggest that in general people who go to therapy do get better than people who don't. as for which kind of therapy, it's one of the frustrations in the field that it's unclear which kinds of therapy are best for which kinds of people. there are many people who work in a form of therapy called cognitive behavioral therapy that works on changing unhealthy patterns of thought and behaviors. there's so research to indicate especially for anxiety that is the more effective treatment.

you can find people that argue really it's a matter of finding a good therapy with whom you connect and developing a good relationship based on trust. there's a lot of research to effect that many therapies are equally effective across the board. >> we talked a good bit about cbt and dbt here and have friends and family members that have used it to great success. i want to ask, though, about a trend i noticed through the years. it's based on insurance payments. it seems psychiatrists went from sitting, talking, spending time to people often walking into their office, and this is, of course, a very crude generalization, but throwing pills at them, just being a little more than a pharmaceutical dispenser and too

much guesswork going on there. talk about insurance, what it pays and what it doesn't pay often limits what counselors can and cannot do over time. >> even when insurance does cover people's therapy, if you're going out of network, and many people do go out of network, it can get exorbitantly expensive really quickly. to some degree medications are thought to be as effective as long-term talk therapy. there's a lot of research to suggest that medications in conjunction with therapy, especially for depression, are more effective than either therapy or depression alone. but you are right that the proportion of people who are using medication relative to the body of people seeking mental health care in general, that has increased. i'm sure that does have to do both with people's insurance coverage and also the amount of time that they themselves have to devote to therapy and how

much they can spend on therapy even if insurance does cover it. >> we talk about food deserts. let's talk about treatment deserts. i've always found and felt so sorry for parents and children specifically in underserved areas, and that also includes in rural america. my god, in rural america especially, it is really hard for some parents -- i know firsthand talking to friends -- to find mental health counselors for themselves and their children. >> that is definitely a huge crisis. i think there's some hope that teletherapy can solve some of those problems, but you can imagine especially with teenagers that that might not be the most e6 fekive way to go. there's another article in the issue in which my article is published that talks about -- that follows therapists that work specifically with suicidal

teenagers by my wonderful colleague maggie jones. and you feely feel the pain and the guilt of the therapists who realize there's only so much they can do in the face of how many young people are coming through the doors of the emergency room. another colleague of mine, matt rick tall, has written about how much time kids spend in ers, kids with suicidal ideation or suicidal, languishing while they try to find better services for them. a huge crisis for sure. >> staff writer for "new york times" magazine susan dominus. thank you for being on the show. we have just a few seconds left. i have to be careful with you. final thoughts this morning. >> i'll go to rev. rev, find thoughts? >> -- kevin mccarthy comes to his senses and we solve the situation. maybe he wanted to see the president and be at the level.

hopefully it will get resolved because the ramifications will be devastating. >> katty kay, final thoughts. >> i was thinking of martin amos and everything he left behind to literature and writers prepared to irritate everybody with a good sense of satirical humor statement. >> extraordinary gift. jonathan lemire. >> it won't be about the sell tigs. i like what rev sard. high stakes here today. coming to the white house to meet with president biden. we often get caught up in the politics of it, the process of it. we should be focusing on the consequences if they don't make a deal. if we default it will have immediate economic consequences for the country. almost sure to plunge us into recession. >> one of the reasons i think it will get resolved, it is in nobody's best interest for this not to be brought in to a landing. >> bring it in for a landing. that does it for us this morning, speaking of.

ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. final break.

a bend with a bump in your erection might be painful, embarassing, difficult to talk about, and could be peyronie's disease or pd, a real medical condition that urologists can diagnose and have been treating for more than 8 years with xiaflex®, the only fda-approved nonsurgical treatment for appropriate men with pd. along with daily gentle penile stretching and straightening exercises, xiaflex has been proven to help gradually reduce the bend. don't receive if the treatment area involves your urethra; or if you're allergic to any of the ingredients. may cause serious side effects, including: penile fracture or other serious injury during an erection and severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. seek help if you have any of these symptoms. do not have any sexual activity during and for at least 4 weeks after each treatment cycle. sudden back pain reactions and fainting can happen after treatment. tell your doctor if you have a bleeding condition or take blood thinners as risk of bleeding or bruising at the treatment site is increased.

join the tens of thousands of men who've been prescribed xiaflex. make an appointment with a xiaflex-trained urologist. visit bentcarrot.com to find one today. hello on this monday. thanks for joining us. it is 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from

new york.