hostage. among democrats, you have reporting saying they have regrets as to how their own party has handled this. tell us. >> it's democrats' three regrets. we're either nine or ten days out from the cliff if jan -- if june, excuse me, is a real cliff. already, assuming this gets done, there are some sadnesses in the democratic party. the big one right now really is, sources telling "axios," democrats not having either raised the debt ceiling or just abolished it all together when they had the chance, if they ever had the chance. at least there was a time when they technically controlled both chambers as well as the white house. they missed that window, and now they're paying for it. two, betting that the house republicans would be so disorganized that kevin mccarthy could not pull together any kind of a countermeasure. three, not starting negotiations sooner. they didn't want to negotiate but they had to. coming in late may have cost them leverage. >> the negotiations now going to

go basically around the clock until the x date. margaret talev, thank you for joining us this morning. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this tuesday morning with us. "morning joe" starts right now. optimistic we may be able to make some progress because we both agreed default is not really on the table. we have to get something done here. and the consequence of failing to pay our bills would be the american people would have a real kick in their economic well-being. as a matter of fact, the rest of the world would, too. >> president biden and speaker kevin mccarthy continue to take positive -- have that positive tone on the debt ceiling and how it is going, but there's still no deal with just over a week until the country could default completely. we'll look at the disagreements that are holding up a deal for now. also ahead, donald trump's comments about e. jean carroll during his town hall could cost him more money, as the writer

takes new legal action against the former president. meanwhile, trump has a new challenger in the 2024 presidential race. we'll show you senator tim scott's pitch to voters and part of his wide-ranging interview with nbc news after yesterday's announcement. plus, a top republican in the house seems to admit the real reason for an investigation into the biden family finances. we'll show you that moment. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 23rd. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," "politico's" jonathan lemire. former director of communications to president obama, jen palmieri joins us, as well. we'll jump right into it. writer e. jean carroll is updating her original defamation lawsuit against former president trump in response to the comments he made about her during a recent town hall event.

>> you wish you had testified? >> no, it wouldn't have made a difference. this was a rigged deal. my lawyer said, "sir, you don't have to do it." i said, "i think i should. it'd be respectful." they said, "sir, this is a fake story, and you don't want to give it credibility." that's why i didn't go. [ applause ] >> i've never done that. i swear to you, i have no idea who the hell, she's a whack job. >> his insecurity is -- we've talked about this before, willie. his insecurity is so overwhelming, he feels the need to say, "sir, sir, sir." >> yes. >> again, you talk about a tell, this is the most insecure man in public life. >> yeah, john and i were noting, the "sir story" was an excuse to tell another "sir story." it's a tell that what he is

about to say didn't happen, but he just wants some respect. he can keep defaming people in public, but as e. jean carroll taught us, he's not going to do it with impunity anymore. her legal team says, you can keep trashing me, and we'll take $5 million, maybe $10 million in this case every time you do it, and sending the message that, finally, someone is drawing a line in the sand with donald trump. >> yeah, i mean, gravity has returned. i mean, to the legal system, it's made that so. where, you know, if you're going to lie about sandy hook parents and say sandy hook children never existed, you're going to pay a lot of money. if you go around lying about somebody and you get busted for defamation, then you go out two days later -- >> do it again. >> this isn't the world that trump thought he had created over the past few years. like i said, gravity has returned.

there are debts that have to be paid for so many of the things that he does, including defamation. >> if you track his entire life and career, as many have, i think this is the first time that he faced a word that is alien to him, it's accountability. >> yeah. >> in a new court filing, carroll's attorney asked for at least $10 million in compensatory damages, as well as a, quote, very substantial punitive damages award. this lawsuit was first filed in 2019 and is separate from the civil case that carroll won earlier this month, where a jury found trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. he was ordered to pay $5 million and is currently appealing that verdict. the 2019 lawsuit stems from comments trump made that year after carroll came forward with her allegation that he raped her in a department store. now, her attorneys say trump's latest remarks, quote, show the depth of his malice toward

carroll. trump's lawyers say they plan to fight the motion, writing in a statement, quote, ms. carroll's eleventh hour attempt to amend her complaint exposes the true motivation behind her numerous lawsuits. >> yeah, it's for donald trump to top lying about the woman, repeatedly. >> not only will it cost him money in the end. carroll has already won suit against him. he has to spend all this money on lawyers. that's just one of the many cases. >> well, yeah. >> they're closing in on him. >> again, he thinks he can keep lying and there are no consequences to it. gene robinson, the real consequence -- >> gene isn't here yet. >> oh, gene is coming. jennifer palmieri, one of the consequences of this is you look at the punitive awards. the punitive awards, if she wins this case, are likely going to be much greater because this happened days after a jury found

him liable for sexual abuse, sexual assault, and for defamation. to go back out there two, three days later, again, i don't think that they -- they'd be looking really closely at hitting him hard with punitive damages to stop the behavior in the future. >> it is something we are experiencing with him, with accountability. i mean, voters have held him accountable, right? he didn't win in 2020. he tried to pursue extraordinary means to stay in office. it didn't work out. the courts backed democracy in that case. and the courts have weighed in again to hold him accountable in a way that we haven't seen happen to him before. i think -- so, you know, that's a positive thing. that's democracy working. that's our institutions standing up. but i imagine he'll keep doing it, right, because he was so angry about that first judgment. plus, it's a woman coming after him. he never likes that.

i bet he'll continue to say these derogatory remarks about her, and there'll continue to be accountability in the courts. you know, let alone all the other accountability that's on the legal front that are, you know, likely to come his way this summer, too. >> there's some news in one of the other legal cases against donald trump. here in new york, he is charged in connection with that alleged hush money payment. prosecutors say he ordered it to be made to adult film actress stormy daniels. the former president will appear today by video for a hearing so the judge can explain to him the recalls of a new protective order which bars trump from using evidence in the case to attack witnesses. prosecutors from the manhattan district attorney's office requested the order earlier this month, and the judge agreed. under the rule, the former president and his lawyers will not be allowed to share evidence to third parties, namely, posting it on social media, going after people in the case. it also requires certain sensitive material shared by

prosecutors be kept only by trump's lawyers, not shared with the former president himself. they don't trust him with it. trump has pleaded not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in that case. the trial is expected to begin next year. bottom line on this hearing today, john, is that they don't trust donald trump with evidence in the case because they think he is going to use it, post it on social media, taint a jury with a trial coming up here. >> that seeps like a reasonable fear. obviously, these cases are separate, but the e. jean carroll matter reinforces why you'd do that. he keeps talking, he gets himself into more trouble. the judge is saying, don't do this because we don't want you to impact the proceedings. in the past, he uses social media, previous twitter, now truth social, to go after people involved. it could be intimidation. it could be an attempt to influence things. it can't be a full gag order because he is running for president of the united states. the court seems to acknowledge that. but they're restricting what he can do and say.

that's sort of an important step here. again, to mika's point, it's the first time he's had to face accountability or restriction. he's not able to do what he wants per penalty from the court. >> you look, we're talking about accountable. it's really across the board here. i brought up the sandy hook lies. >> right. >> there was something where, again, people just started thinking, you can lie, say whatever you want to say, there won't be any consequences. we obviously know what happened -- >> took a while. >> -- with the voting machines, what happened there. we see what happened to donald trump in manhattan. we saw what happened with this jury verdict. we're also seeing it every day, the justice department continuing, and the fbi continuing to pursue people who beat the hell out of cops, rioted on january 6th, tried to overthrow a peaceful american presidential election. again, there are consequences. again, it appears that donald

trump will be the last person that understands this. but there definitely are. it's going to come in georgia in august. it is going to come with jack smith and the feds. >> oh, my gosh. >> well, you have trump's former attorney general who basically did whatever he told him to do. you have a former legal counsel of his saying this could land him in jail, the mar-a-lago obstruction of justice part of that case. yeah, consequences have come. they will continue to come. the question is, when is donald trump going to figure it out? >> well -- >> i know he lives in a world that he's created all unto himself, but at some point, well, if you believe one of his former attorneys, and this is one of his former attorneys, what they say and not what i say, because i think he's gotten away with so much, but ty cobb says, it could end him up in jail. >> that guy has been on the inside and has seen what is going on.

it's one question as to whether or not trump will ever get it or if he will keep throwing a firehose of falsehoods out in front of every case and drag it out as much as possible, but the other question is, republicans in the house, republicans who still continue to follow him, as they are watching this man continue to touch the hot stove and pull his hand away and lose. the house republican leading an investigation into the biden family's finances may have inadvertently revealed the true intention of his probe. in a fox news interview yesterday, james comer, committee chair, was asked whether he thought his investigation was the reason for an uptick in media coverage about the biden family's business dealings. his response was to cite head-to-head poll numbers between president joe biden and donald trump. >> do you think that because of your investigation, that is what has moved this needle with the

media? >> absolutely. absolutely. there is no question. you look at the polling, and right now, donald trump is seven points ahead of joe biden and trending upward. joe biden is trending downward. i believe the media is looking around, scratching their head, and they're realizing the american people are keeping up with our investigation. >> actually, we're realizing you made a fool of yourself time and time again, and you don't really -- you can't cherry-pick a poll. because a republican poll that just came out recently, public opinion strategies, which is, of course, as we've said here, is the most respected republican pollster in washington, most republicans would suggest that, been around for 25 years, their latest poll has, i think it's from the 13th to the 15th of may, has joe biden up over donald trump. has him up even over donald trump in georgia.

we could go through all of it. it's tight, but there's nothing coming out of comer's investigation, but more embarrassments for him. he hasn't produced any evidence, any evidence. by the way, even right-wing allies in the media say it'd prove members of the biden family engaged in any criminal activity. willie, you listen to that and it reminds you of somebody else, doesn't it? we keep asking, why are they freaking out so much in hearings and screaming, taking a tragedy and trying to turn it into some big political hit job on benghazi? let's play the tape. we can see the parallels. >> there's a match. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right? but we put together a benghazi special committee, a select committee. what are her numbers today? her numbers are dropping.

why? because she's untrustable. but no one would have known any of that had happened had we not -- >> i agree. >> jen palmieri, that is kevin mccarthy in 2015 saying the quiet part out loud, that her poll numbers are down. it's proving hillary clinton is untrustable. sorry for using one of your trigger words, benghazi, as someone who worked on the 2016 campaign. but there are notable differences here. that was only, what, eight years ago. at least they pretended or tried to publicly say, republicans did, that benghazi was about getting to the bottom of the deaths of americans at benghazi. they said this is not about hillary clinton. they said that publicly. by the way, after kevin mccarthy made those comments, trey gowdy, the chairman of the benghazi committee called him in and made him apologize. he said, he's my friend, so it is especially disappointing.

republicans showed how disappointed they were in kevin mccarthy and made him apologize. with this biden family investigation, it is about joe biden and his family, so they really can't say anything other than, we're glad to see, at least in one poll that they found, that it is taking a toll. >> i mean, shows you the erosion of the integrity of the republican party even in the last eight years. also, how young kevin mccarthy looked in that, right? that was shocking. responsibility ages people. but, you know, that -- what kevin mccarthy said in '15 in benghazi, first of all, one of the best days of the clinton campaign, because it proved our theory that this was political and not within merit about what actually happened at benghazi. but that was seen as costing kevin mccarthy the speakership. that move. he did have to backtrack it. as you said, trey gowdy did go after him. now, jim comer, the chair of the

committee, just goes ahead and asserts, that is the purpose. the purpose is to -- the purpose is to drive down biden's standing with the public. i mean, joe's point about the fact the polls, you know, most of these polls definitely do not show donald trump beating biden. it shouldn't be the point. also, they are failing even in trying to, you know, assert any kind of real case against the biden family here. >> yeah. it's the exact same playbook that we have seen the republicans use against hillary clinton in 2016, but it's a diminished sequel. it hasn't worked. we saw it in 2020. >> no, it's horrible. >> tony bubbaluski, whatever the name was. >> wow. >> the business partner of hunter biden, who was the surprise guest at the debate in 2020, which was a pale

invitation to the surprise guest that trump brought, the clinton accusers in 2016. we've seen it time and time again, they're trying to make this happen. it just isn't. >> yeah. >> as we've talked about, joe, you know, we'll see. if hunter biden is charged with a crime later this year, looks like maybe on tax filings or, you know, shouldn't have had a gun when, you know -- in his possession, we'll see. we'll deal with it as it happens and see if there is electoral impact. even then, there is no suggestion the president did anything wrong. at least at this point, the republicans, try as they may, as many hours as they spend on fox news, they haven't been able to create anything about the biden crime family that seems to be changing any voters minds. instead, turning off voters who say, you should be focusing on other things. >> yeah. >> and it's so awkward. >> awkward, great way of putting it. >> it's as awkward as ron desantis trying to laugh respond

-- to laugh instantaneously. >> don't show that. >> i'm not. >> okay. >> it's very awkward. durham tries two cases, "we're going to prove the fbi and hillary clinton spied." two juries say, not even close. 24 jurors just said no to durham, his cases were so horrible. he never proved anything. now, you have comer coming along. they put out a report and, my god, even people on the right who have been lying time and time again about the, quote, biden crime family, have to say, well, there's no smoke and gun there, is there? there's not really anything there, is there? nothing going back to joe biden. there's not. but it's just, again, it's awkward because they're so bad at this. as willie said, with benghazi, you had an underlying tragedy. of course, of course, that kind

of makes it even more grotesque, that they decided that they were going to exploit the deaths of four americans who gave their lives in service to america, to try to drive down hillary clinton's poll numbers. but the underlying investigation was a worthy one, to see what happened in benghazi. again, they just -- it was perverse. they said, "let's use these four dead americans to drive down hillary clinton poll numbers." here, they literally have nothing. >> well, they have hunter. >> yeah. >> their focus on hunter, i think, continues to backfire. i just think -- i could be wrong, but i think there's kind of a bad reaction to going after president joe biden's surviving son, you know, who has written a book about his struggles, who has been open about it. yes, if something -- you're right, and all of us have said this, if there is a charge against him, we will cover it as we'd cover anything else.

>> yeah. >> but the kind of personalization of the politics against joe biden, who is widely known as an empathetic man, widely known as a very good man, who seems to many people like a good guy, and they go after his son like that, i think it kind of is cringe worthy. it doesn't work. >> thing is, they have investigations. we have said it here time and again. if hunter biden is indicted, if he is found guilty, very sorry about that, but that's the justice system. >> something we would cover for sure. >> yeah, it's not even the covering part of it. it's that democrats wouldn't go out saying they're going to tear down the rule of law. you know, democrats wouldn't go out and say what marco rubio says about the jury system. trying to rip out a basic pillar of america's judicial system. wouldn't go out saying the sort of things that donald trump says, which is, if courts don't rule in my favor, let's

terminate the constitution of the united states. that's the extreme viewpoint. that's the excessiveness. they put this failed reality show host over the united states constitution and the rule of law. we don't do that here. democrats don't do that. they're not going to do that if hunter biden does end up getting indicted or even going to jail. that's what separates, right now, trump republicans from the democratic party. >> again, it's not joe biden they're going after. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll have the latest on the debt ceiling negotiations. president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy are calling yesterday's meeting productive. but there is still no deal in sight. plus, republican senator tim scott officially jumps into the 2024 white house race. we'll take a look at some of his wide-ranging interview with nbc news on the heels of yesterday's announcement. also ahead, republican

senator josh hawley gets mocked in a new campaign ad featuring a little hollywood star power. and former two-time candidate for georgia governor and voting rights activist, stacey abrams is our guest this morning. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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u.s. park police are expected to file charges. no injuries were reported. mika, he didn't get close to the white house but certainly made an attempt. >> we'll be following that. time for a look at the morning papers. in michigan, "the detroit news" reports on governor whitmer, signing into law the extreme risk protection order act. the legislation allows judges to temporarily confiscate guns from those who are at risk. it is the last part of a package lawmakers introduced following february's shooting on michigan state's campus. in florida, "the tallahassee" has a front page feature on ron desantis, asking a federal judge will disqualified from presiding over a lawsuit filed by disney. desantis says the judge has referenced his dispute with disney in unrelated hearings, claiming that means he can't be

impartial in this case. disney is suing the florida governor over allegations the board he appointed to oversee the company violates disney's right to free speech, as well as the contracts clause. "the kansas city star" leads with a bill that would allow for courses on the bible. it requires schools not show any favor or hostility toward any religion. some critics worry this might violate the spirit of the separation of church and state. the legislation passed both the statehouse and senate and is now with the governor. finally, "the republican american" reports the senate approved a bill to regulate artificial intelligence. the measure sets requirements for the development and use of a.i. systems in the state government. it also proposes creating a group that can make recommendations on how to

regulate the tool in the private sector. u.s. senator richard blumenthal says the bill could serve as a model for the federal government. coming up, tiktok files a federal lawsuit against montana, challenging the state's law that banned the chinese-owned app because of privacy and security concerns. plus, u.s. surgeon general vivek murthy joins us with a new warning about social media and mental health. "morning joe" will be right back. from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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beautiful live shot of new york city this morning. tiktok is suing montana, the state of montana, over the state's new ban of the chinese-owned social media app. the company argues the ban violates the first amendment and several other laws. the governor signed the bill lastconcerns the

chinese government has data from tiktok. montana's law bans the company from operating inside the state, and app stores are not allowed to offer it there. any entity found in violation would be fined $10,000 a day. individual users, though, will not be published. a group of tiktok content creators filed a separate lawsuit against the ban last week. mika. meanwhile, the united states surgeon general has issued a new advisory this morning, warning about the adverse effects of social media on our younger population. according to the department of health and human services and the surgeon general, nearly half of the teenagers they spoke to say social media makes them feel worse about their body image. over 60% say they are exposed to hate-based content on social media, either often or sometimes. nearly 75% say social media apps and sites are only doing a fair

to poor job of addressing online harassment. joining us now, u.s. surgeon general dr. vivek murthy. >> thank you so much for being with us, mr. surgeon general. tell us about your surgeon general's advisory over social media and the mental health of youth in america. >> well, we're living in the middle of a youth mental health crisis in america. i said before, this is the defining public health issue of our time. the reason i'm issuing this advisory, i'm very concerned now that social media is an important factor that is driving this youth mental health crisis. you know, i talk to parents all across the country, and the most common question they ask me is, is social media safe for my kids? the truth is, when we look at the collection of publicly available evidence, talk to subject matter experts, we can't say that social media is, in fact, safe for kids. what we do see is growing evidence of harms. specifically, think about the fact that kids who use more than

three hours of social media a day face a greater risk, in fact double the risk, of depression and anxiety symptoms. this is especially concerning when you consider the fact that the average amount of use by kids is 3 1/2 hours a day. the bottom line is, this is a real point of concern here. when nearly half of kids are telling us that social media use makes them feel worse about their body image, i think about that as a father with two young children. i want what every parent wants. i want my kids to grow up confident, feeling good about themselves, and they want them to be able to thrive. we should make sure that social media is, in fact, a place where our kids get benefits and where they're not harmed. >> so what does an advisory do at this point, in terms of spreading the message? i think a lot of parents are living the message, and social media has become a part of the fabric of young people's lives. it's not something, as a parent, you have a lot of power over. you have some but you don't have a lot. in other cases of things that

were dangerous toward children, there were regulations or laws or bans. they can't smoke. they're not supposed to smoke cigarettes. they're supposed to wear a seat belt. they can't drink alcohol until a certain age. what is the solution, and what does this advisory do? >> what should parents do? >> really good questions. i'm glad you brought up parents, mika. parents are in a difficult situation here. i hear this from parents all the time. they are having to deal with the technology that is rapidly evolving, that is pervasive. around 95% of kids are using social media. a technology that fundamentally changed how our kids look at themselves and each other in the world. a technology that prior generations never had to deal with, contend with or manage. parents are in a difficult situation. what i worry about, mika, is that we have largely put the burden of managing social media on the shoulders of parents and kids. what they find themselves is pitted against some of the best

product designers in the world, who designed the platforms to maximize the amount of time that kids spend on the platforms. what i care about as surgeon general, as a ddoctor, a dad, i their health and well-being. what this advisory does is, number one, helps parents understand what the data tells us about the mental health impact of social media on our kids. it also calls to action policymakers, technology companies, researchers and others, and lays out concrete actions they can take. finally, consider this, mika, you mentioned other places where we look to support parents in making decisions and keeping kids safe. the thing about cars, we don't tell a parent of a 15 or 16-year-old who is about to start driving, "you figure out whether the car is safe on your own. figure out what tools and sort of safety provisions and features it needs." we establish safety standards, then we implement them and enforce them. that's what we need policymakers to do here. this is too much to place on the

shoulders of parents alone. >> dr. murthy, good morning. when the cdc report came out in friday, it dropped the jaws, i think, of a lot of parents, that showed especially teenage girls, young girls, 60% or something like that have feelings of persistent sadness and hopelessness. we talked about suicidal ideation, all these things that just break the heart of anybody who read that study. is there any doubt in your mind that this huge spike in that is directly linked to the proliferation of social media? >> well, i'm issuing this advisory because i am concerned that it is, in fact, linked. there are open questions we have to answer here. part of the challenge we have had in getting answers to all the questions we have about the full extent of social media's impact, who is at greatest harm, what the mechanisms of harm are, is researchers have not been able to get all the data they need from technology companies. it's something i hear all the time from researchers around the country. that's something that has to change. look, i recognize that some of

the companies have been working to make the platform safer, and that's a good thing. but it hasn't been enough. we need to move faster. social media has been around for 20 years. yet, i have not yet seen, in all the publicly available evidence we have looked at, that there is clear evidence that this is, in fact, safe for our kids. that's really what parents are asking for. i think it is a very reasonable ask. willie, the other day, i came home and my wife and i were talking to our daughter who is 5 years old and in preschool. she asked us about posting a picture on social media. she's 5 years old. she's in preschool. we don't talk to her about social media, but her classmates are talking about it. this is pervasive. it is everywhere. that's why it is so important that we support parents. i'll tell you what we are doing for our kids. as our kids get older, you know, our goal is going to be to delay the use of social media until after middle school. recognizing that is easier said than done, and we're going to need help. we're looking for other parents

we can partner with, who might take a similar approach with their kids because there's strength in numbers. for parents whose kids are already on social media, a couple things i would offer. one, start a conversation with your children about social media, about the benefits, about the harms, but also about when they should be worried. if they're being harassed or bullied, as so many kids are. also, recognize there are certain areas in your kids' life you want to protect. their sleep, their in-person time with others, and their time for physical activity. making those times in their life tech-free zones is one way we can help protect our children. we have resources in our advisory that help parents have these conversations. the bottom line is, we're in the middle of a youth mental health crisis. we have to do everything possible to help support our kids. that means addressing social media to make it safer. >> couldn't agree more. u.s. surgeon general vivek murthy, thank you very much for coming on the show and sharing this be us. >> thanks so much. >> appreciate it. turning back to politics now, award-winning actor and st.

louis native jon hamm is voicing a new political ad on behalf of u.s. senate candidate lukas koontz, hoping to unseat josh hawley this november. take a look. >> manhood, you hope that means courage. courage isn't something you can give speeches or write a book about, not sitting on the sidelines while others sacrifice, or denying help to those who did. it isn't putting people down or trying to control them, or using your own power for profit or ambition. in missouri, you can't fake courage. we're the show me state. courage is something you have to show us. it shows in the working class people who pitch in to help the family next door bankrupted by medical bills. it's the marine who is helped by

the community he fought for. it's to empower people to secure our future. if you want to be told about manhood, some guy wrote a book about it. but if you want someone to show you courage, send lucas kunce to the senate. >> that's his second really powerful ad that i've seen so far this cycle. the question is, in missouri, does he have a shot? >> i mean, missouri is a tough state, right? jason candor had really good ads in missouri, as well, also a veteran. you know, he did not succeed in winning his senate race. at some point, you know, voters have free will. at some point, we talked about in the earlier segments how facts matter, how the fact that comer is not coming up with

facts to prove his allegations about the biden family, that matters. trump being held accountable for what he says, that it matters. josh hawley is -- you know, the footage of him running out of the capitol, things are at odds with what he claims to be and then how he votes, how he represents missouri, how he acts in a time of crisis, like we're seeing right now. those things do still matter to voters. could this happen in missouri? sure, a good candidate running a great campaign, and he is off to a good start. when you have someone on the other side that is racking up hypocrisies, i think that can still matter. >> yeah, well, also, obviously, when you have somebody on the other side that took an active part in stirring people up to overthrow the united states government like josh hawley did,

to riot that day, who tried to overthrow a presidential election, yeah, i would hope the people in missouri might actually just give a damn about that. let's bring in pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," gene robinson. what'd you think of the ad? >> this is a really good ad. you know, it goes right at hawley's manhood thing, which is, i guess, i don't know what he is trying to do with this, but i'll tell ya, he's not exactly a schwarzenegger. it's -- he's a terrible senator. i think his record -- we've seen what he did on january 6th. we've seen his record in the senate, which is quite undistinguished.

let's see if kunce can do it. missouri is a tough state, a very red state, but josh hawley, you know, we'll see if he could be a vulnerable candidate running for re-election. >> we should note on the missouri race that eric schmidt won in 2022 by 13 points, and donald trump won in 2020 there by 15. certainly, a tough hill to climb, even if you have don draper helping out with the ads. gene, let's hear about your column. you looked at ron desantis' would-be campaign, and your thought it might be short lived. tell us about it. >> well, it's just that he has such a thin skin and such a long memory, he holds grudges. that's the opposite of most really good politicians i know who have very short memories and very thick skin. because today's adversary might be tomorrow's ally. but you look at desantis, you

look at his crusade against walt disney world. you know, he's fighting to defeat the magic kingdom. against bob iger, good luck. you look at his -- at what he has done in florida in this attempt to not be outflanked on the right. he has gone so far to the right that he's made himself potentially, and i think actually toxic to those suburban women voters that the republican party needs to win back. they lost in 2020, they need to win it back in 2024. you look at the six-week abortion ban. you look at the loosening of gun laws. you look at all the sort of anti-woke nonsense that he has rammed through the state ledge

legislature, and you see a guy who is kind of making himself less and less electable. and you see that in his poll numbers, which i believe, which have gone down, as donald trump's have gone up. unless he evolves and unless he changes, i don't know that he's going to stick around very long. he could be this year's, you know, scott walker. >> desantis expected to get into the race sometime this week. he hopes to reset things a little bit. we'll continue this conversation about the 2024 republican primary. tim scott has thrown his hat into the race. senator scott's message to voters yesterday as he officials kicked off his bid for the white house. we'll discuss that when "morning joe" comes right back. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu.

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holds, looking, finds james. takes the pass, falling away,

baseline shot, backboard, a 24-second violation. >> he traveled in the back court. there was no violation. >> looked like players were confused there. they're deciding not to foul. three-second difference, shot clock and game clock. murray against them. time-out, and four seconds remaining. lakers have one more shot. james comes out of the pack. james on the drive, goes inside, shot blocked. it's over! it's over! >> with that, the los angeles lakers' season ended last night. lebron james coming up short on a couple potential tying shots in regulation, with the lakers down two of both possessions. blocked on the last one. the denver nuggets completing a four-game sweep of the lakers in the western conference finals, moving to the franchise's first ever nba finals. good for them.

nikola jokic led the nuggets. 30 points, 14 rebounds, 13 assists for his eighth triple-double of the playoffs, breaking the nba postseason record set by wilt chamberlain in '67. l.a. was beat, 113-111. in the nba finals for the first time ever, the nuggets will face either the boston celtics or the miami heat. it'll be the heat in the finals set to tip-off thursday, june 1st. a long ten-day playoff for the nuggets. celtics trail the heat in the eastern conference finals, three games to none. heat can close it out tonight, game four in miami. as for the lakers, the season-ending loss has lebron james mulling retirement, maybe. >> i don't play for anything besides winning championships at this point in my career.

i don't -- i don't get a kick out of making a conference appearance. i've done it a lot. we'll see what happens going forward. i don't know. i don't know. i have a lot to think about, to be honest. i have a lot to think about, to be honest. just for me personally going forward with the game of basketball, i have a lot to think about. >> a lot to think about. jonathan lemire, in the low moments of a loss, you have to take things with a grain of salt. it's how you're feeling. lebron james, 38 years old. had injured this year, one that's nagging him, but he averaged almost 30 points a game, put this team, which has no business being in the western conference finals on his back. he clearly can still do it. i think most of us think he'll keep playing, but he'll take time to think about it. >> yesterday, he played well. he ran out of gas in the fourth quarter. he's still lebron james.

not at his peak, but an effective player. he talked openly in the last few weeks about wanting to play with his son, more than a year away from potentially making the nba. there is thought he is trying to pressure the lakers to make off-season moves, maybe kyrie irving. seeing the lakers get swept takes a little sting out of the possibility that tonight celtics will get swept. >> i won't relitigate the game three with you. >> they didn't show up. >> awful. lebron is a great ambassador for the game. i suspect he'll keep playing. there is a nice olympics, he loves the olympics, next summer, 2024 in paris he probably wants to be a part of. as john said, he's indicated he'd like to stick around long enough that if his son, brony, who will be a freshman this year at usc, if he gets to the nba, he could potentially play with him, which would be incredible. >> amazing. >> gene robinson, we said

good-bye to a man many people consider to be the greatest running back in nfl history. >> yeah. >> there's one thing that jim brown is undisputably the best at. he was the best at knowing when to walk off the stage. >> yeah. >> of all the great athletes, he left at his peak. you see some players stay a year or two, three years too long. we've grown up seeing that. >> yeah. >> whether it was willie mace or willie mays or hank aaron. lebron is an extraordinary guy to watch. at the same time, you don't want to see him struggling for a year or two extra, do ya? >> no. no, you don't. you're right, most of them do stick around, you know, a year or two longer than they really should. lebron scored 40 last night. i mean, he was terrific. yeah, he was -- >> that's true. >> -- a little tired at the end, but, you know, lebron james

barrelling down the court toward you is still a really, really fearsome sight. that said, you know, he could only carry this team so far, he and anthony davis. they had no business being there. i think he will think about it. i think he can play at a very high level at least one more year. i'm guessing he'll do that. >> wow. coming up, we're going to hear from the latest republican to launch a presidential campaign. plus, new reporting on how donald trump's third run for the white house is impacting potential down ballot candidates. >> they're worried, finally. >> they're having a hard time. >> they should. and why ron desantis focusing on cultural issues could make him an easy target for democrats in a general election. we'll explain that ahead on "morning joe." we're back in one minute. (screaming) defeat allergy headaches fast with new flonase headache and allergy relief!

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♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ we have become a nation in retreat. our heritage and history. i'm the candidate the far left fear it is most. i disrupt their narrative. i threaten their control. the truth of my life disrupts their lives. >> i think there's some projecting there. i've got to say, tim scott, when i see tim scott, i think, yeah, that's america. what an exciting story. you look at his background, look where he came from, and youlook at the fact this guy excites a lot of republicans running for president, that's really exciting. it's as exciting as, say, a guy named barack obama starting his

campaign, running and becoming president of the united states. the first majority white country to elect a person of color as their president. this is something you see that republicans don't understand. this is something that lovers of democracy, lovers of the rule of law, believers in, i don't know, the things that actually thomas jefferson said, that martin luther king quoted 60 years ago this august in the march on washington, that abraham lincoln used to emancipate slaves, these are things we celebrate. these are things joe biden celebrates. these are things a hell of a lot of republican senators that are supporting tim scott celebrate. so i don't understand it.

gene robinson, maybe my memory is a little foggy right now, but, you know, he was talking a lot about a party that is a party of grievance. talking a lot about a party of anger. that either was projection on confession. when he is talking about joe biden has done more to divide it, last time i checked, joe biden wasn't talking about overthrowing presidential elections and terminating the constitution of the united states. >> no, he wasn't. look, tim scott's lane, i think, if he has a lane in the race, is the happier warrior, the -- he's going to lean very heavily on his personal story. indeed, you know, he's an african-american who was elected to the senate from south carolina. he was the first

african-american elected to the house from south carolina since reconstruction, elected to congress since reconstruction when he went to the house. you know, that said, it's going to be -- he's raised some money, and he is getting some endorsements. he is popular among republicans in south carolina, although not very popular among democrats. he is, of course, also up against nikki haley, another south carolinian, another, you know, south carolinian of indian heritage, who served as governor and is also now running for president. they're kind of splitting republicans in south carolina in an interesting way. people have having to choose sides between haley and scott, and ask which is more -- which one is more prepared potentially to become president.

neither is doing very much in the polls yet. we'll see if tim scott is able to catch on in a way that nikki haley hasn't so far. >> yeah. here's more from senator tim scott at his alma mater of charleston southern university. take a look. >> this is the greatest nation on god's green earth. today, i'm thinking back to my grandfather, born in 1921 in south carolina, in the deep south. by the time he was in the third grade, he was forced out of school. his education was over. he was forced to start picking cotton. but my grandfather lived long enough to watch his grandson pick out a seat in congress. [ applause ] that's the evolution of the country we live in. my family went from cotton to

congress in his lifetime. joe biden and the radical left are attacking every single wrung of the ladder that helped me climb, and that's why i'm announcing today that i am running for president of the united states of america! [ applause ] >> so, willie, really quickly here, again, what a great story, from cotton to congress, right? >> absolutely. >> we celebrate that story. we all celebrate that story. it's -- actually, when he says america is the greatest country on earth, greatest nation on earth, i think, thank god a republican is finally saying that. thank god! a republican is finally saying that.

all we've heard is donald trump saying america is the greatest threat to western democracy. >> carnage. >> all we're hearing is talk about american carnage. all we're hearing is donald trump and republicans all around tim scott, all around the announcement yesterday, saying our democracy is rigged. that the last election was rigged. all we're hearing from, not tim scott but people around tim scott, is that our military is weak and woke, and they wish it would be more like the russian military. when, in fact, our military is stronger than it's ever been since 1945, in relationship to the rest of the world. all we're hearing from trump republicans -- and i'm glad tim scott says that we're the greatest nation on earth. it's about damn time somebody is in the republican party. because donald trump said, to a

question asked by our own jonathan lemire, that he trusted vladimir putin a hell of a lot more than he trusted the men and women who are professionals, who risk their lives for our family's protection every day in the intel community. what he said actually is radical in trump's republican party. he said america is great, and we salute him for that. for him to try to project that onto joe biden is pretty blanking laughable. i've been begging republicans to embrace their country and recognize its greatness now for several years and stop talking about american carnage. stop saying, like donald trump is saying, that america is the greatest threat to western civilization, when there's some of us who still believe we're that city shining brightly on the hill for all the world to see. it seems senator scott may actually believe that. let's hope it's contagious in

trump's republican party. >> yeah, the politics of victimhood and grievance that senator scott ascribed to joe biden yesterday is all of donald trump's campaign. and a lot of the republican party world view. it's that the fbi needs defunded. it's that the justice department can't be trusted, and it conducts witch hunts against republicans. it's a witch hunt when it is bad for trump and for them. tim scott almost came out reagan esque, saying it's a new june rise in america. pushing optimism and hope. >> good. >> we'll see where it goes from there. but donald trump still runs the party. our nbc colleague tom llamas sat down with tim scott. at the top, they talked about donald trump. >> 2021, you said you'd support former president trump if he was running for re-election.

he's running. now, you announced your candidacy. what changed? >> i believe america can do for anyone what she has done for me. that's why i'm focusing on restoring hope, creating opportunities, and making sure that we protect the america that we have. i also believe that we have to have a president that persuades, not just within our base, but even on the other side of the aisle. i know i am the candidate that best gets that done. >> how are you different from governor ron desantis? >> couple things i'll say. number one, having an optimistic, positive message that is anchored in conservatism and optimism matters a lot. i have a 100% pro life voting record. i'm 100% pro life conservative. as president of the united states, i would sign the most conservative legislation, pro life legislation that can get to my desk. here's the issue, though, nothing can get to my desk unless we first win the hearts and minds of the american

people. >> would you ever try to overturn an election you lost? >> no. >> what do you think of president trump's behavior after the 2020 election and into january 6th? >> we can do two things here, have a conversation about president trump or my vision for the future. >> it was a historical moment. voters deserve to know. >> i was in there, so i know how historic it was. i'll say simply this. the future america is focusing on is what i'm going to provide. i'm going to continue to talk about the conservative principles that move the country forward. it's the best path for us. >> senator scott is very, very well-liked in the united states senate, not just among republicans but democrats who worked with him on certain issues, as well. in a parallel universe, he could be a historic figure, obviously, for the republican party in a presidential race. but we live in donald trump's republican universe right now. he is going to have to, like ron desantis, figure out how to take him on if he wants to be the nominee.

>> yeah, very positive, optimistic message on many fronts. also, jen palmieri, i thought something absolutely fascinating right there. when he talked about, he would sign the most pro life legislation, but then he talked about something that david french has talked about. david has talked about it on our show. he said, hey, i'm pro life. i've been pro life my entire life. but we're not going to succeed in the long run unless we win the hearts and minds of americans on the life issue. he said, just jumping ahead, passing something in the supreme court is causing chaos and costing us elections. i thought it was fascinating that tim scott did two things at the same time. he said, bill the most pro life candidate. i'll sign pro life legislation. but at the same time, i'm not going to sign that legislation until we win the hearts and the minds of americans, which means

he understands, and he was talking about it also in another part of the interview, we can't live in a bubble. we have to persuade independents. we have to work with the other side. that is pretty basic. that's politics 101. but in the trump republican party, that's almost revolutionary. >> right. right, it is. it's like, yeah, it's normal politics but revolutionary to hear it from a republican presidential candidate. sure, win the hearts and minds, but they should have done that before they overturned roe v. wade. i mean, it is just too late to have that conversation in a republican partial primary about trying to win people over to a pro life position. when, you know, today, i believe, in south carolina, the south carolina senate is going to vote on another six-week abortion ban. that pro life women, state

senators in south carolina, tim scott's own state, are opposing. one, she said it's about controlling women. you know, scott, it's great to see him get in the race. i think it is, as a democrat, i welcome seeing diversity in the republican presidential field. tim scott, nikki haley, like, we want this. that is a good thing. you know, he has a lane as the hopeful conseconservative, righ? that's a lane. that is not a path to the nomination. you know, i still don't know what this republican primary is going to be about. we knew in 2020 the democratic primary was about who can beat donald trump. that was it. that is what it was about. on the republican side, if it's really about who can -- you know, if they're looking to say who can take trump on, no one has really been willing to make that frontal argument. without doing that, you know, trump's message, i am your

retribution, whatever you want that to mean, is probably the most powerful thing that's being said, as the rest of these candidates just sort of, on the republican side, dance around trump and aren't willing to take him on. >> let's bring in editor of "the new republic" and publisher of the bulwark. sarah, your new piece is entitled "the gop is in an abusive relationship with trump." you spoke to several republican women about donald trump's, quote, horrible record on the treatment of women. writing in part, quote, donald trump has treated women more atrociously, criminally, even, than any presidential candidate in history. and this fact will matter very little in the coming election. because voters think what they think about him. 2024 is likely to be decided by the same narrow set of issues that define most presidential

elections, jobs and the economy, abortion, dobbs and crime and guns. trump's indictments rarely come up. if they did, it'd make little difference. as one woman told me recently when i mentioned trump's conviction in the carroll case, quote, i'm not saying that what he did was right. i'm a victim of the same thing. but, she said, we have to stay focused on who can run the country. sarah, this is not just a concept of that one woman you were speaking to and your mindset of trumps, but republicans, as well, who tend to overlook a long list of downsides. >> yeah, i mean, the thing you really hear from voters when you talk to them is how baked in everything around donald trump is. they have made up their minds. one of the things i talk about when i talk trump versus desantis is the relationship with ron desantis is very shallow.

it's new. they're just -- you know, they're desantis curious. they like him, but they don't know him very well. with donald trump, good, bad, ugly, they, long ago, made their accommodations. they've long ago figured out how to rationalize donald trump's behavior. and listening to a lot of these women, they really compartmentalize his behavior. you hear them say all the time things like, "well, i don't like who he is as a person, i don't like the things he says, or i don't like how he treats women, but i do like how he ran the country. or i do like his policies." it is just -- they just -- it's been in there for -- they've now voted for him at least twice, sometimes more, and in doing so, they have figured out how to kind of bracket his really horrible behavior from what they like about him as a president or what they like about his policies. >> by the way, if you're driving

in your car right now listening to the radio, we've put together a helpful voters guide for republicans. trump, haley, hutchinson and scott. sparked violent insurrection. trump, yes. liable for sexual abuse, trump yes. felony charges, trump yes. hoarded classified documents and refused to return them, trump yes. subject of civil freud lawsuit, trump yes. and called for terminating the constitution, trump yes. then the last two, accepts legitimate election results and supports ukraine, no on those two, but yes for all the others. it is interesting, gene robinson, listening to sarah and talking about the abusive relationship with republicans and talking about republican women, you know, what i find so rich is these are the same republican women, type women, primary voters, that would come up to me yelling repeatedly in '98, '99, 2000, after he wasn't

impeach, saying, "what is wrong with congress? it's corrupt. bill clinton's behavior." i hear preachers getting in pulpits, saying the first sign the nation is going the way of babble or the way of sodom and gomorrah,. who is the guy, bennett, who wrote his book of virtues and got rich off of attacking bill clinton's character. now, he's the first in line defending donald trump. i could go on and on. when character was king, i remember that book. i forget the details of it. republicans, republicans just swam in this stew for two or three years, about how horrid american democracy was because

bill clinton survived, being a horrific man. now, it's donald trump is the best guy to lead us. >> yeah, it's not so bad. you mentioned the preachers. let's talk about the preachers for a minute. where are these evangelical preachers who, yes, when they talked about bill clinton, hillary clinton, when they talked in general, when they preached, you know, they didn't preach that morality and decency were thing that is you could just leave aside. they preached about jesus and what jesus said and did and how there are -- our christian walk should be in trying to emulate, as far as we can, those virtues

and that kind of generosity. and decency. to then turn around and say, well, donald trump, nevermind. nevermind a, b, c, d, e, f, g, down to z, it's just incredibly hypocritical. i don't understand how the preachers look at themselves in the mirror. i don't understand how their congregations don't kind of scratch their heads and say, "but, you know, aren't we supposed to try to be good and decent? isn't that the whole point?" but, again, here we are. >> as if to shore up that constituency, donald trump has been reminding evangelicals, i got you, re versus wade, the holy grail. with the supreme court justices i appointed.

michael, your piece for "the new republic," "ron desantis want as referendum on freedom. fine, it's a fight he'll lose." you write, if ron desantis spent the last few years positioning himself as a quote, unquote, normal conservative, i'd be seriously worried ability the presidential candidacy he's set to announce. in today's united states, my bet is most people don't want too live in an intolerant society that outlaws abortion, bans books, and allows anyone to carry a permitless firearm, and gives the state the right to take children away from parents in the heart of freedom. the heart of his general election campaign, if he gets there, is going to be freedom. everything he is doing he boasts is freedom. biden and the democrats will need to tackle this head on. desantis' idea of freedom for a lot of floridians looks more like chains. michael, i'll let you expand on that. where do you see ron desantis

when he gets in in the next couple days? what is the theme, the thrust, and how does he distinguish himself from donald trump? >> yeah, well, i think the thrust is what you just read, from what i wrote, willie. i can't say it any better now than i said it there. i think his lane is that he is like trump but not like trump. he doesn't have the same, you know, personality and the willingness to say anything and to, you know, overthrow an election. maybe. i guess he's there. but, you know, look, he might be a formidable candidate. he's got strengths. you know, he's smart. he knows policy, unlike donald trump. you know, never say never in a country that elected donald trump. but i really think he's chosen a very particular kind of race to run.

he's made a choice. he wants to be the field general in this massive, cultural civil war that he has waged in florida in all the ways i describe. i mean, they just passed a law that allows the state to yank children out of the homes of their parents if those children have received a certain kind of medical care. you know, even people who are ambivalent about transgender rights or against transgender rights, i don't think they want the state to come into people's homes and take their kids away. i don't think they want books banned. i don't think they want abortion laws limited to six weeks like the one that florida passed. i just don't think that's where the united states of america is these days. >> yeah. >> i don't think so either. >> sarah, what is fascinating about ron desantis is, we've really actually seen four ron desantis' over the past several years. when he was in congress, he was a pro ukrainian, you know, congressman. give them all the weapons they

need to protect themselves. when he ran for governor, it was just those idiotic campaigns, where he was reading trump bedtime stories to his kids. we made fun of him all the time here because he looked like a trump stooge. here's the most fascinating part of it. pre-covid, ron desantis was following the formula a lot of florida governors and politicians do, which is, you know, be conservative on money issues. on the environmental issues, kind of do a tip of the hat to the environmentalists, like jeb bush did and connie mack did. his numbers got up to the 60s, and he actually had democrats saying, this guy is doing a pretty good job. then he became social issues warrior after that, and that's continued. >> here is what is so weird to

me about this version of ron desantis, there is an available part of the republican party that want to move on from trump. they want trump without the baggage. there is a reason ron desantis jumped up in the polls after his big win and donald trump's big loss. you know, there is -- they do want to move on. ron desantis has not shown enough political talent to capture that audience. even more weirdly, he's decided to wrestle trump for his cult, right? he's decided, there is a chunk of the party that is always trump. they're always going to vote for trump. they are hard core, maga voters. for some reason, ron desantis is going after those voters instead of trying to consolidate the people that want to move on, then kind of trying to move in and build a coalition with the maybe trumpers. that could potentially be a winning path for him. but for some reason, he has decided to run was just the same guy as donald trump, and it

makes no sense to me. >> yeah, it really -- >> really, that's well put. >> doesn't make a lot of sense. i think what most republicans want, they want a strong leader who can win. that doesn't mean that he needs to imitate donald trump every step of the way, but that's the lesson he's taken. >> sarah longwell and michael tomaski, thank you, both, for being on this morning. ahead on "morning joe," a look at where the debt ceiling negotiations stand with time running out to avoid a default. plus, a six-week abortion bill is headed to the south carolina senate today. we'll talk to a reason republican senator working to block the band. and david remnick is detailing the lives and work of some of the greatest musicians, songwriters and performers of the past 50 years.

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♪ i just wanna be wanna been ♪ ♪ you make me feel you make me feel ♪ ♪ like a i feel, oh ♪ ♪ he make me feel feel like ♪ ♪ he makes me feel like, i feel like a natural woman ♪

♪ a woman, a woman ♪ >> wow, that was -- >> i'm awed. >> aretha franklin's performance at the kennedy center in 2015. you have to watch it. her classic rendition of carole king's "you make me feel like a natural woman," bringing then president barack obama to tears. >> amazing. >> amazing. the iconic moment is one of the many that pulitzer prize-winning author david remnick writes about in "holding the note." in it, he highlights several of the greatest musicians, songwriters and performers of the past 50 years, profiling them late in their career. yet, he write, there was never any diminishment in the desire to make music, to hold the note. david joins us now. he is, of course, editor of "the

new yorker." i love what you write about aretha franklin, there's so much, so much you can say about this extraordinary woman, extraordinary singer and artist. you say the thing that stands out the most about her was her musical intelligence. explain. >> you hear it there. this is late in her career at the kennedy center. this is a gospel singer on a pop stage, a ceremonial thing that usually has show bizy, las vegas performances. aretha came out, and she just burned it down. she was not a well woman at that stage in her life either. you know, she brought out the mink coat. you notice she drops it. this is the oldest grand gospel move in the world.

jackson would do that. it was news to some people, but your life just got 10% better when you watched that. >> our good friend carole king speaks for all of us in the clip, where she's going berzerk, drinking it in. >> she wrote the song with her husband just to write a hit, and they did it overnight practically. many years later, to hear it embodied like that. >> amazing. >> david, in the book, you write in part, "in july of 2008, when billy joel closed shae stadium as the final rock act before the place came under the wrecking ball, he invited paul mccarthy to perform "i saw her standing there." shea stadium is, after all, where beatlemania was in the '60s. i asked if he minded playing second fiddle to his second. i am second fiddle, he said.

everyone is second fiddle to paul mccarthy. songs are emotionally charged and brief, so we remember them whole, the melody, the hook, the lyrics, where we were, what we felt. my father, an exceedingly quiet man, found his deepest connection with me through music. we watched beatlemania take shape on television. my father did not fail to mention that all the hysteria reminded him of a skinny italian american singer from hoboken. but this, he admitted, was much bigger. some years later, i began to see how music and the stories of musicians could play an uncanny role in our lives. >> what a role it's played in your life. you speak of paul mcccartney. you're right. he's spent the last 50 years with everyone else playing second, third, fourth fiddle to him. you know 300 years from now,

someone is going to be singing "yesterday" or whatever on whatever musical instrument they're playing. but you had an extraordinary opportunity to be with mccartney up close and actually sit and watch the screening of peter jackson's extraordinary redo for "get back." >> well, the book is profiles of people in late career, people who were big when i was a kid. paul mccartney, bob dylan, springsteen, aretha and all the rest. it was very moving to me. you know, i was interviewing paul mccartney. he plopped down on the couch, and out pops a hearing aid. he's been abashed. but he's been standing in front of giant amplifiers since he was 16 years old. everybody else needs a hearing aid, why shouldn't it be him? at 80, whatever age it is, he loves being paul mccartney.

i saw him at metlife stadium in jersey last summer, it was. it's a weird thing. he is 80 years old. he is playing pop music that he's been playing since he was a kid. you think, why not? rock 'n' roll didn't start out to be something for anybody. it was teenage music. it was the music of backseats of cars and love and all that growing up. it's an art form that's lasted longer than anybody had any reason to believe, and here he is playing "little richard" on a stage at the age of 80. there's something melancholy, bittersweet and absolutely thrilling, because he is still alive. >> it is interesting to hear you say that. i'm a huge rolling stones fan, as well. every time i go, is it going to be -- then mick is in great shape. yeah, he is 80, but he is sprinting across the stage. >> it's a little comcomical, to. the business of acting cool after a certain age is a little

astray. >> they pull it off somehow, though. i saw a month ago, i saw bruce in newark, in new jersey, which is a religious experience for someone from new jersey. >> tell me about it. >> that's a conversation for another day. but what is it about talking to these incredible icons at later stages in their life, later stages in their career, when they've already been through it all and they're kind of on the other side of it, what is it that fascinates you? >> springsteen is conscious of it. most bands live as long as mayflies, they come, go, maybe they have a moment if they're lucky, and that's it. like the stones, they have an extended moment and keep playing the songs for the most part. if they write something new, you get a beer. let's be honest. it's an amazing band. springsteen is something else. you may think his hottest moment is at a certain time in the

'70s, but he's now writing the songs of an older man. right now, he is on tour. if you look at the set list, it's about getting older. it's about facing death. it's about friends who are leaving this life. that's what life is about, too. it's just in a pop idiom, a soul idiom who you thought was restricted to younger themes. it is a much more malleable thing in the hands of a genius like springsteen or whoever. >> i was struck by how morality hovers over it, as much as it is a party too. bob dylan, his career has remarkably changed a few different things. how did you explore that evolution? >> well, i think if i have to point to a singular genius of, at least in my view, it's dylan.

part of it is when he had his motorcycle accident in the '60s, he was in his 20s and he'd already written songs that would last forever, and a lot of them. since that time, he's gone through so many iterations. songs used to come to him like rain. they'd fall, and he'd hold out the bucket in some way, and they were there. as he got older, he had to work for them harder. you know, there were moments that were down. the late '80s were not a peak period for bob dylan. right now, he's on the never ending tour in his 80s and playing almost all new songs. almost all new songs. "death soaked," about the popular culture of america, the political culture of america. he has new things to say in old idioms. you know, whether it's hillbilly

music or the blues. this guy, i just somehow think he is the most overwritten about person. at the same time, you can't get to the bottom of him. i think he is a phenomenon. >> gene? >> david, i'd like to go back to aretha for a minute, if we could. you mentioned something, when she died, the column i wrote was about her musical intelligence, about what just a smart, a brilliant musician she was, and how she combined that -- of course, she was a gospel singer, she had soul, the pipes and everything, but she was analytical and purposeful about everything she did. can you talk about that? also, the others you wrote about, others of these legends, technical and accomplished music in that same way. >> they're radically different.

leonard cohen was somebody, i don't think i've ever interviewed an author of any kind who is more eloquent than leonard cohen was on his deathbed. that's when i saw him. i saw him in the last weeks of his life, in his little, very small house in downtown l.a. aretha, when i encountered her, again, she was ill, although holding back the news of that. she was suspicious of the world, like chuck berry and many other black performers who got ripped off early in their careers. she was very weary of where the money was going and who was or was not exploiting her, all the rest. once she was on stage, her level of self-possession, where she places the beat, how she creates and constructs a song, you saw that thing at the kennedy center. even late in her career, the way that a three-minute thing is emotionally constructed and how

she embodies it has such emotion for it. it spri brings you to your knee. you saw there carole king almost jumping over the balcony. i thought she was going to end up in the seats below. she, in the studio, working with jerry wexler and other musicians, knew exactly what she wanted, even as a young woman. despite how chaotic her personal life was, the life around her was, you know, from childhood on, on the road. she had a complicated family to say the least. she grew up in a politically turbulent time, and she was in the middle of those things and cared about those things. these are extraordinary american lives. >> let me ask ya, david, just in closing, about music and the power of music. you talked about the connection it had with your father. it's interesting. i reference from time to time

what was said to scorsese, pretend it's a city. music, it's the art form that moves her unlike any others. it's like from another planet, these people can do what they can do. it's extraordinary. it's been my obsession my entire life, music. i'm curious, what do you make of -- like, for instance, mccartney. for willie, it's the stones. for me, mccartney, elton john, the spinners, groups like that, that we're still listening all these years later. i actually go through my day working, exercising, whatever, i've got the headphones on. the music is nonstop. it is a soundtrack, and it keeps getting more powerful every time i hear it. >> well, look, what i do for a living and how i live my life, reading is at the center of it. there's nothing to me like the experience of being possessed,

obsessed by a novel, a poem, a piece of writing. but, on the other hand, you can't hold it all in your head and sing it to yourself. you can't experience it in four minutes and be broken down by it, whether it's miles davis or aretha or ned coleman, leonard cohen, whatever it is. because of the nature of music and the way it insinuates it into your being, into your soul, you associate it with the time you first heard it, the relationships you were having when you first heard it. i think, you know, in pop music, in particular, there is no pop music to you like the music that you had between the ages of 14 and 25. i still try to keep up. i listen to everything, every critic that i respect tells me i should be listening to, whatever lists. i try, but it's different. there, i'm learning a second language, a third language to some degree. the language that i grew up on

is, in large measure, in this book. >> the new book is titled "holding the note: profiles in popular music." david remnism, congratulations on the book. stacey abrams is coming you. she's been busy since november, and she joins us with her new project. that's next on "morning joe." i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. thanks to skyrizi, i'm on my way with clearer skin. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions

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abrams, she founded the organization fair fight to increase voter registration. she was appointed as an endowed chair at howard university, and is now out with her second novel entitled "rogue justice." it's great to have you back on the show. i can't wait to talk about the novel. i want to do a little bit of politics first. i feel like the last time i saw you, women had a right to an abortion and women had health care that they need, and they had the choices that they needed and i want your thoughts on that and where things stand in the democratic party in the fight to gain back women's right to adequate health care. >> well, unfortunately this is now a state by state fight, and in a number of states, the super gerrymandering that we have seen, the silencing of voices that has unfortunately occurred over the last decade or so means

that even though the majority of the population and most states object to eliminating access to the right to an abortion, those who have super majorities are controlling the narrative. but we saw in 2022, while it didn't work in every state, in most states where the people had a chance to push back, they were able to stop extreme abortion laws from taking place, and my hope is that we will continue the fight. democracy exists so that we can have the type of society we seek, and that means that we have to have voters who have access to those opportunities and that we have to have districts that allow those voices to truly be heard. >> stacey, hi, it's jennifer palmeri, it's good to see you. a lot of people talk to me about we need to do in fill in the blank state, mississippi, alabama, what stacey abrams and others built in georgia, in terms of progressive infrastructure, to help

democrats do better in these states, can you explain that process that you went through? i mean, i know this was decades, maybe decades in the making about building that kind of infrastructure, you know, particularly in these southern states. >> well, it was a ten-year process to get us really started and it's three pieces, one is investment. and that investment can't be itinerate, it can't be occasional, it has to be consistent. and second, make sure you're building at every level, the grass roots, grass stalks and grass tops, and three, it's understanding you're going to lose on your way to progress. i have an extraordinary patience for this work because i understand that we are not simply changing infrastructure, we're helping people own their power, and for so many, power is terrifying, and if they don't believe that it's real, they're not going to risk it. and part of what helped us in georgia for so long is that we have the patience of losing some, winning some, but always

working towards more. >> stacey, i've got two quick questions. first, quickly, which southern state do you think is ripest for the sort of transformation you helped accomplish in georgia, and second, tell us about the novel. >> thank you. well, i think that we have an exciting set of elections coming up in mississippi with brandon pressley running against a very weakened tate reeves. i think andy beshear is going to put on a credible race against daniel cameron. he has been a strong governor, and that is a real opportunity, and because these are off-year elections, it's very important that we pay attention to these two southern states that we invest heavily in their success. for my purposes, i'm going to be focusing on a lot of different parts of my life, but i'm so excited to bring avery keen back to the pages. she appeared first in "while justice sleeps," and she has a new adventure where she uncovers blackmail in the fisa courts,

the foreign intelligence surveillance courts. most people don't realize that we have this secret court that does not have to publish its opinions, which means often it is shielded from public attention, and avery finds out that there is someone or some people who are trying to undermine not only our courts, but the infrastructure of our nation. >> so this is your second in a series of legal thrillers, and how much out of real life do you take when you put the pen to paper and write these books? >> i love writing because it gives me a chance to explore topics i normally wouldn't encounter or to take questions and curiosities that i want to expand on. this one grapples with the, as i said, the foreign intelligence surveillance court but also looks at cyber security issues we have in this country, looks at our power grid, and once you understand exactly how electricity gets into our homes, it's a little terrifying itself,

and then i also address the ferris doctrine, which is a military issue in our courts where our military does not have access, our military members do not have access to our civilian courts in a number of important ways. for me, the most interesting books take real life issues, amplify them, but everything i say is possible, not probable, but certainly possible. >> the new book is entitled rogue justice and stacey abrams, it's always great to have you on the show, congratulations on the book. thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. up next, we're going to have updates on two legal cases involving donald trump, the former president. we'll tell you why his town hall could end up costing him millions of dollars and lawyers fees. we'll explain why he's appearing virtually today before the judge in the manhattan porn star hush money case. plus, we'll speak with a

republican lawmaker from south carolina who's working to block restrictive new limits on abortion. state senator, sandy senn is our guest ahead on "morning joe." we'll be right back. isou guest ahead on "morning joe. we'll be right back.

we're optimistic we may be able to make some progress because we both agree that default is not really on the table. we got to get something done here, and the consequence of failing to pay our bills would be that the american people would have a real kick in their economic well being. as a matter of fact, the rest of the world would too. >> president biden and speaker kevin mccarthy continue to take a positive tone on the debt ceiling and how it's going. there's still no deal. with just over a woke until the country could default completely. we'll look at the disagreements that are holding up a deal for now. also ahead, donald trump's

comments about e. jean carroll during his town hall could cost him more money as the writer takes new legal action against the former president. meanwhile, trump has a new challenger in the 2024 presidential race. we'll show you senator tim scott's pitch to voters and part of his wide ranging interview with nbc news after yesterday's announcement. plus, a top republican in the house seems to admit the real reason for an investigation into the biden family finances. we'll show you that moment. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 23rd, along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, former white house director of communications to president obama, jen palmieri joins us as well. so we'll jump right into it. writer e. jean carroll is

updating her original defamation lawsuit against former president donald trump in response to the comments he made about her during a recent town hall event. >> do you wish you had testified? >> it wouldn't have made a difference. this is a rigged deal. my lawyer said, sir, you don't have to do it. i actually said, i think i should it would be respectful. they said, sir, don't do it, this is a fake story, and you don't want to give it credibility. that's why i didn't go. >> one thing you did do in this. >> and i swear, and i have never done that. i have no idea who the hell -- she's a whack job. >> you know, his insecurities, we have talked about this before, willie, his insecurity is just so overwhelming that he feels the need to say, sir, sir, sir, again, you talk about a tell. it's just the greatest tell. this is like the most insecure man in public life. >> yeah, john and i were just

noting, this is another excuse to tell the sir story. he wants to show that someone gave him some respect. mika, he can keep defaming people in public, but as e. jean carroll taught us and that jury taught us in manhattan, he's not going to be doing it with impunity anymore. what they're saying is you can keep trashing me, and we're going to keep taking 5 million, maybe $10 million in this case from you every time we do it and sending the message that finally someone is drawing a line in the sand with donald trump. >> yeah, i mean, gravity is returned. i mean, to the legal system has made that so, where, you know, if you're going to lie about sandy hook parents and say sandy hook children never existed, you're going to pay a lot of money. if you go around lying about somebody and you get busted for defamation, and then you go out two days later, this isn't the world that trump thought he had

created over the past few years. like i said, gravity has returned. there are debts that have to be paid for so many of the things he does, including defamation. >> if you tracked his entire career and life like many have, i think this is the first time he's faced a word that is very very alien to him, it's accountability. >> yeah. in a new court fining, carroll's attorney asked for at least $10 million in compensatory damages as well as, quote, very substantial punitive damages award. this lawsuit was filed in 2019, separate from the civil case that carroll won earlier this month, where a jury found trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. he was ordered to pay $5 million and is currently appealing that verdict. the 2019 lawsuit stems from comments trump made that year

after carroll came forward with her allegation that he raped her in a department store. her attorney says trump's latest remarks show the depth of his malice toward carroll. trump's lawyers say they plan to fight the motion, writing in a statement, ms. carroll's 11th hour attempt to amend the complaint exposes the true motivation behind the numerous lawsuits. >> the true motivation is for donald trump to stop lying about the woman repeatedly. >> not only will this cost him money in the end if he loses again, e. jean carroll has won one suit against him, he has to spend all of this money on lawyers, and that's just one of the many cases closing in on him. >> he thinks he can keep lying and there are no consequences to it. jennifer palmeri, this happens days after a jury found him

liable for sexual abuse, sexual assault, and for defamation, so to go back out there two or three days later, again, i would think that they would be looking very closely at really hitting him hard with punitive damages to stop the type of behavior in the future. >> and it is something that we're experiencing with him with accountability, i mean, voters have held him accountable, right, he didn't win in 2020. he tried to pursue extraordinary means to stay in office, it didn't work out. the courts backed democracy in that case, and the courts have weighed in again, to hold them accountable in a way this we haven't seen happen to him before, and i think, you know, that's a positive thing. that's democracy working, that's our institutions standing up. but i imagine he'll keep doing it because he was so angry about

the first judgment, plus it's a woman coming after him. he never likes that, and i bet he'll continue to say these derogatory remarks about her, and there will continue to be accountability in the courts. you know, let alone all the other accountability that's on the legal fronts that, you know, are likely to come his way this summer too. >> and there's some news in one of the other legal cases against donald trump here in new york where he's charged in connection with that alleged hush money payment. prosecutors say he ordered to be made to adult film actress stormy daniels. the former president will appear today by video for a hearing so the judge can explain to him the rules of a new protective order, which bars trump from using evidence in the case to attack witnesses. prosecutors from the manhattan district attorney's office requested that order earlier in month and the judge agreed. under the rule, the former president and his lawyers will not be allowed to share evidence to third parties, namely posting it on social media, going after people in the case. it also requires certain

sensitive material, shared by prosecutors be kept only by trump's lawyers, not shared with the former president himself. they don't trust him with it. trump has plead not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. in that case, a trial scheduled next year. bottom line on this hearing, john, is they don't trust donald trump with evidence in the case. they think he's going to use it, post it on social media, taint a jury with the trial coming up here. >> that seems like a reasonable fear, and obviously these cases are separate, but the e. jean carroll matter reinforces why he's doing that. he keeps talking, gets himself in trouble. this is an effort, the judge is saying don't do this, we don't want you to impact the legal proceedings. trump in the past, uses social media, previously twitter, now truth social to go after people involved, and it could be intimidation, it could be an attempt to influence things, and it can't be a full gag order, he is running for president of the united states.

the court seems to acknowledge that, but they're restricting what he can do and say. that's an important step here. to mika's point, one of the first times he's had to face accountability or restriction. he's not able to do what he wants per penalty from the court. >> you look, and we're talking about accountability. it's really across the board here. i brought up the sandy hook lies, and there was something where, again, people started thinking, you can lie, say whatever you want to say, there won't be consequences, we obviously know what happened with the voting machines, what happened there. we see what happened to donald trump in manhattan. we saw what happened with this jury verdict, we also are seeing it every day, the justice department continuing and the fbi continuing to pursue people who beat the hell out of cops, rioted on january 6th, tried to overthrow a peaceful american presidential election, again, there are consequences and it

appears that donald trump will be the last person that understands this, but there definitely are. it's going to come in georgia in august. it's going to come with jack smith, and we have trump's former attorney general who basically did whatever he told him to do and you have a former legal counsel of his saying this could land him in jail, the mar-a-lago obstruction of justice. consequences will come. they will continue to come. when's donald trump going to figure it out. i know he lives in a world he created unto himself. at some point, if you believe one of his former attorneys, and this was one of his former attorneys say, not what i say because i think this guy has got en away with so much, but could end him up in jail.

>> he's been on the inside and seen what's going on. it's one question as to whether or not trump will ever get it or if he'll just keep throwing a fire hose of falsehoods out in front of every case and drag it out as much as possible. the other question is republicans in the house, republicans who still continue to follow him, as they are watching this man continue to touch the hot stove and pull his hand away and lose. the house republican leading an investigation into the biden family's finances may have inadvertently revealed the true intention of his probe. in a fox news interview yesterday, oversight committee chair james comer was asked whether he thought his investigation was the reason for an up tick in media coverage about the biden family's business dealings. his response was to cite head-to-head poll numbers between president joe biden and donald trump. >> do you think that because of your investigation that is

what's moved this needle with the media? >> absolutely. absolutely. there's no question. you look at the polling, and right now, donald trump is seven points ahead of joe biden and trending upward. joe biden is trending downward, and i believe that the media is looking around, scratching their head, and they're realizing that the american people are keeping up with our investigation. >> now, what we're realizing is actually you made a fool of yourself time and time again, and you don't really -- you can't cherry pick a poll. because a republican poll that came out recently, republican strategies, the most respected republican pollster in washington, most republicans would suggest that, been around for 25 years, their latest poll, i think it's from the 13th to the 15th of may has joe biden up over donald trump. has him up even over donald

trump in georgia. we could go through all of it. it's tight, but there's nothing coming out of comer's investigation, but more embarrassment from him. he hasn't produced any evidence, by the way, even right wing allies in the media, that would prove members of the biden family engaged in any criminal activity, but of course, willie, you listen to that, it kind of reminds you of somebody else, doesn't it? when we were all asking, wait, why are they freaking out so much in hearings and screaming, taking a tragedy and trying to turn it into some big political hit job on benghazi, and let's play the tape, and we can see the parallels. >> there's a match. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right? but we put together a benghazi special committee, a select committee. what are her numbers today?

her numbers are dropping. why? because she's untrustable, but no one would have known any of that had happened -- >> that is kevin mccarthy in 2015 saying the quiet part out loud, that her poll numbers are down, that it's proven hillary clinton is untrustable, sorry, by the way, for using one of your trigger words, benghazi, for someone who worked on the 2016 campaign. there are notable differences here, at least, and that was only eight years ago. at least they pretended or tried to publicly say benghazi was about getting to the bottom of the deaths of americans and benghazi, this is not about hillary clinton, they said that publicly, and after kevin mccarthy made those comments, tray -- trey dowdy called him in, made him apologize publicly, it's disappointing, he's my friend, so it's especially disappointing. republicans made a show of how disappointed they were in kevin mccarthy, and condemning what he

said. not here because ostensibly, that was about the deaths of americans, but explicitly in the case of this biden case, it's about joe biden, it's about his family. they can't say anything other than we're glad to see, at least in one poll that they found, that it is taking a toll. >> it just shows you the erosion of the integrity of the republican party even in the last eight years, and also how young kevin mccarthy looked in that, right, that was like shocking. you know, responsibility ages people. but what kevin mccarthy said, that was in '15, about benghazi, first of all, one of the best days on the clinton campaign because it proved our whole theory that this was all political, and not within merit about what actually happened at benghazi, but then that was seen as costing kevin mccarthy the speakership, that move. and he did have to backtrack it,

and as you said, did go after him. jim comer go ahead and asserts, that is the purpose. the purpose is to drive down biden's standing with the public, and, i mean, like joe's point about the fact that these polls, most of these polls definitely do not show donald trump beating biden. but it shouldn't be the point, and also they are failing even in trying to, you know, assert any kind of real case against the biden family here. >> yeah, it's the impact same play book we have seen. but it's a diminished sequel. a tony drop name here. the business partner of hunter biden, the surprise guest at the debate in 2020, which was a pale

invitation that donald trump brought, the clinton accusers in 2016. we have seen it time and time again. they're trying to make this happen, and it just isn't. as we've talked about, joe, we'll see. if hunter biden is charged with a crime later this year, looks like maybe on tax filings, or shouldn't have had a gun in his possession, we'll see. we'll deal with that as it happens. we'll see if there are any electoral impact, but even then, there's no suggestion that the president did anything wrong, and at least at this point, the republicans, try as they may, and as many hours as they spend on fox news, they have not been able to create anything about the actual biden crime family that seems to be changing any voters' minds and turning off voters who say you should be focusing on other things. >> and i mean, it's so awkward. >> it's awkward. that's a great way of putting it. >> it's as awkward as ron desantis trying to laugh spontaneously at an iowa event.

>> please don't show that. >> i'm not going to show it. it's very awkward, but you look at durham. he has his, oh, we're going to prove that the fbi spied. and two juries, no, not even close. 24 jurors just said no to durham, his cases were so horrible. he never proved anything, and now you have comer coming along, and they put out a report, and my god, even people on the right who have been lying time and time again about the, quote, biden crime family have to say, well, there's no smoking gun there, is there. there's not really anything there, is there? nothing going back to joe biden. and there's not. but it's just, again, it's awkward because they're so bad at this. and as willie said, with benghazi, you had an underlying

tragedy. of course, that kind of makes it even more grotesque that they decided that they are going to exploit the deaths of four americans who give their lives in service to america, to try to drive down hillary clinton's poll numbers, but the underlying investigation was a worthy one to see what happened in benghazi. they just, again, they just said let's use these four dead americans to drive down hillary clinton's poll numbers. here they literally have nothing. >> well, they have hunter and they're focused on hunter. it continues to backfire. i just think i could be wrong but there's kind of a bad reaction to going after president joe biden's surviving son, and, you know, who has written a book about his struggles, who has been open about it, and, yes, you're

right, if there's charges against him, we will cover it, like we would cover everything else, but the personalization of politics against joe biden who's widely known as a very empathetic man, who is widely known as a very good man, who seems to many people like a good guy, and they go after his son like that, and i think it just kind of is cringe worthy. it doesn't work. >> the thing is they've got investigations, we've said it here time and again, if hunter biden is indicted, found guilty, very sorry about that, but that's the justice system. >> something we would cover for sure. >> and yeah, but it's not even the covering part of it, democrats wouldn't go out saying they're going to tear down the rule of law, you know, democrats wouldn't go out and say what rub -- marco rubio says about the jury system, trying to rip out a basic pillar of america's judicial system. wouldn't go out saying the things donald trump says.

if courts don't rule in my favor, then let's terminate the constitution of the united states. that's the extreme viewpoint. that's the excessiveness where they put this failed reality show host over the united states constitution and the rule of law. we don't do that here. democrats don't do that. they're not going to do that if hunter biden does end up getting indicted or going to jail. that's what separates, right now, trump republicans from the democratic party. >> but, again, it's not joe biden they're going after. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll have the latest on the debt ceiling negotiations. president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy are calling yesterday's meeting productive. but there is still no deal in sight. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. g "morning " we'll be right back.

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security barriers near the white house last night, according to a witness who spoke to reuters. investigators found a nazi swastika flag inside the truck. the secret service believes the driver may have intentionally crashed that vehicle. u.s. park police are expected to file charges. no injuries were reported, mika. he didn't get very close to the white house but certainly made an attempt. >> we'll be following that. it's time to take a look at the morning papers. we begin in michigan where the detroit news reports on governor gretchen whitmer signing into law the extreme risk protection order act. the legislation allows judges to temporarily confiscate guns from those deemed a risk to themselves or others. it is the last of a three-part package of gun regulations, lawmakers introduced following february's deadly mass shooting on michigan state university's campus. in florida, the tallahassee democrat has a front-page feature on governor ron desantis, asking that a federal

judge be disqualified from presiding over a lawsuit filed by disney. desantis says the judge has referenced his dispute with disney in unrelated hearings, claiming that means he can't be impartial in this case. disney is suing the florida governor over allegations the board he appointed to oversee the company violates disney's right to free speech as well as the contracts clause. the kansas city star leads with a missouri bill that would allow public schools to offer elective courses on the bible. it also requires that schools not show any favor or hostility toward any religion. some critics worry this might violate the spirit of the separation of church and state. the legislation passed both the state house and senate, and is now with the governor. and finally, the republican american reports that the connecticut senate has approved a bill to regulate artificial

intelligence. the measure sets requirements for the development and use of ai systems in the state government. it also proposes creating a group that can make recommendations on how to regulate the tool in the private sector. u.s. senator richard blumenthal says the bill could serve as a model for the federal government. and coming up, tiktok files a federal lawsuit against montana challenging the state's law that ban the chinese-owned app because of privacy and security concerns. plus, u.s. surgeon general vivek murthy joins us with a new warning about social media and mental health. "morning joe" will be right back. " will be right back or their neighbors down the hill. but one thing they did know is exactly how much they'd pay. because vrbo is different. ♪ (man) what if my type 2 diabetes takes over?

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tiktok is suing montana, the state of montana over the state's new ban of the chinese owned social media app.

the company argues the ban violates the first amendment and several other laws, the governor signed the bill amid concerns the chinese government may have concerns over tiktok's data. tiktok says it has never been told to share its information. montana's law bans the company from operating inside the state and app stores are not allowed to offer it there. any entity in violation would be fined $10,000 a day. individual users will not be punished. a group of tiktok content creators filed a separate lawsuit against the ban last week, mika. meanwhile, the united states surgeon general has issued a new advisory this morning warning about the adverse effects of social media on our younger population. according to the department of health and human services and the surgeon general, nearly half of the teenagers they spoke to say social media makes them feel worse about their body image. over 60% say they are exposed to hate-based content on social

media either often or sometimes. and nearly 75% say social media apps and sites are only doing a fair to poor job of addressing online harassment. joining us now, u.s. surgeon general dr. vivek murthy. >> thank you so much for being with us, mr. surgeon general. so tell us about your surgeon general's advisory over social media and the mental health of youth in america. >> well, we're living in the middle of a youth and mental health crisis in america, and i have said before, this is a defining public health issue of our time, and the reason i'm issuing this advisory is i'm very concerned now that social media is an important factor that is driving this youth mental health crisis. you know, i talk to parents all across the country and the most common question that they ask me is social media safe for my kids. and the truth is, i mean, look at the collection of publicly available evidence, and we talk to researchers and subject matter experts, we can't say

that social media is, in fact, safe for our kids. in fact, what we see is growing evidence of harms, and specifically, you think about the fact that kids who use more than three hours of social media a day face a greater risk, in fact, double their risk of depression and anxiety symptoms. this is especially concerning when you consider the fact that the average amount of use by kids is 3 1/2 hours a day. the bottom line is, this is a real point of concern here. when nearly half of kids are telling us that social media use makes them feel worse about their body image, i think about that as a father who has two young children, and i want want every parent wants, i want my kids to grow up confident, feeling good about themselves, i want them to be able to thrive. we should make sure that social media is, in fact, a place where our kids get benefits and they're not harmed. >> what does an advisory do at this point in terms of spreading the message? i think a lot of parents are living the message, and social media has become a part of the fabric of young people's lives.

it's not something as a parent, you have a lot of power over. you have some, but you don't have a lot. and in other cases of things that were dangerous to our children, there were regulations or laws or bans. they can't smoke, they're not supposed to smoke cigarettes. they're supposed to wear a seat belt. they can't drink alcohol until a certain age. what's the solution here, and what does this advisory do? >> and what should parents do? >> really good questions, and i'm glad you brought up parents, mika. parents are in a difficult situation here, and i hear this from parents all the time. they are having to deal with the technology that is rapidly evolving, that is pervasive, around 95% of kids are using social media. a technology that has fundamentally changed how kids look at themselves and others and the world, a technology that prior generations never had to deal with, contend with or manage. parents are in a difficult situation, and what i worry about, mika, is we have largely put the burden of managing

social media on the shoulders of parents and kids, and now what they find themselves pitted against some of the best product designers around the world, they have designed to maximize the time they spend on the platforms. what i care about is it's not the amount of time. i care most about their health and well being, that's what we should be seeking to optimize. what the advisory does is number one, it helps parents understand what the data tells us about the mental health impact of social media on our kids. it calls to action, policy makers, technology, and researchers and others, and lays out concrete actions that others take. you mentioned other places where we look to support parents, you know, in making decisions and keeping their kids safe. we think about cars. we don't tell a parent of a 15 or 16-year-old who's about to start driving, you know what, you figure out whether the car is safe on your own. you figure out what tools and sort of safety provisions and features it needs.

we establish safety standards, and then we implement them and enforce them. that's when we need policy makers to do here. this is too much to place on the shoulders of parents alone. >> dr. murthy, good morning, when that cdc report came out in february, it dropped the jaws, i think, of a lot of parents that showed especially teenage girls, young girls, 60% or something like that have feelings of persistent sadness and hopelessness, and talked about suicidal ideation, all of these things that break the heart of anybody that read that study. is there any doubt in your mind that this huge spike in that is directly linked to the proliferation of social media? >> i'm issuing this advisory because i'm concerned that it is, in fact, linked. there are open questions we've got to answer here, and part of the challenge that we've had in getting answers to all the questions we have about the full extent of social media's impact, whose at greatest harm, what the mechanisms of harm are is researchers have not been able to get all of the data they need

from technology companies. it's something i hear all the time from researchers around the country. and that's something that has to change. look, i recognize that some of the companies have been working to make their platforms safer, and that's a good thing, but it hasn't been enough, and we need to move faster. social media has been around for 20 years. yet, i have not yet seen in all the publicly available evidence we have looked at that there is clear evidence that this is, in fact, safe for our kids, and that's really what parents are ask for. i think it's a very reasonable ask. finally, consider this, the other day, i came home and my wife and i were talking to our daughter who was 5 years old, in preschool, and she asked us about posting a picture on social media. she's 5 years old. she's in preschool. we don't talk to her about social media, but her classmates are talking to her about it. this is pervasive, it's everywhere. that's why it's important we support parents. i'll tell you what we're doing for our kids, as our kids get

older, our goal is to delay the use of social media after middle school, recognizing it's easier said than done. we're looking for other parents that we can partner with who might take a similar approach with their kids. there's strength in numbers. for parents whose kids are on social media, a couple of things i would offer, one is to start a conversation with your children about social media, about the benefits, about the harms, but also about when they should be worried, if they're being harassed and bullied as kids are. there are certain areas in your kids' lives you want to protect, their sleep, their in-person time with others, and their time for physical activity, and making those times in their life tech free zones is one way we can help protect our children. we have resources in our advisory that can help parents have these conversations but the bottom line is we're in the middle of a youth mental health crisis, we have to do everything possible to support our kids, meaning addressing social media to make it safer. >> couldn't agree more. u.s. surgeon general vivek

murthy, thank you very much for coming on the show and sharing this with us. >> thank you so much. >> appreciate it. coming up, global citizen is back in a big way. we've got a first look at next month's free event featuring lenny kravitz, billie eilish and h.e.r., among many others. those details are next on "morning joe." others. those details are next on "morning joe." power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are.

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turning back to politics now, award winning actor and st.

louis native jon ham is voicing a new political ad on behalf of u.s. candidate lucas kuntz, a democrat hoping to unseat missouri republican josh hawley this november. take a look. >> manhood, you hope that means courage, courage isn't something you can give speeches or write a book about, it's not sitting on the sidelines while others sacrifice, or denying help to those who did. it isn't putting people down or trying to control them. or using your own power for profit or ambition. in missouri, you can't fake courage. we're the show me state. courage is something you have to show us. it shows in the working class people that pitch in to help the family next door bankrupted by medical bills. it shows in the marine who signed up to honor and serve the community that took care of him. it shows when a missourian stands up to the powerful, when he fights to rebuild his state,

to empower people, to secure our future. if you want to be told about manhood, some guy wrote a book about it, but if you want someone to show you courage, send lucas kunce to the senate. >> jen palmieri, that's his second really powerful ad that i have seen so far this cycle. the question is in missouri, does he have a shot? >> i mean, missouri is a tough state, right? jason candor had really good ads in missouri as well, also a veteran, and, you know, he did not -- he did not succeed in winning his senate race. but at some point, you know, voters have free will, and at some point, you know, we talked about in the earlier segments how facts matter, how the fact that comer is not coming up with any facts to prove his allegations about the biden

family, that matters. trump being held accountable for what he says. what he says matters, has consequences. josh hawley, the footage of him running out of the capitol, things that are at odds with what he claims to be, how he votes, how he represents missouri, how he acts in a time of crisis, like we're seeing right now. those things do still matter to voters. can this happen in missouri? sure. a good candidate running a great campaign, and he's off to a good start. when you have someone on the other side that is racking up hypocrisies, i think that that can still matter. >> coming up, we'll go live to the white house for some new developments this morning on the standoff over the debt ceiling. nbc's kristen welker joins the conversation straight ahead on "morning joe." conversation straight ahead on "morning joe."

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♪♪ it's a few minutes before the top of the hour. a live look at new york city on this beautiful day. global citizen just announced a major new event aimed at confronting the climate crisis head on. power our planet live in paris is a free event that will take place on june 22nd and will feature performs by lenny kravitz, bilie eilish, john baptiste and more. it calls for a shift in the way the world's systems work to give poor and developing nations

access to the financing they desperately need, strengthen their resilience against natural disasters and address their most urgent needs. joining us now is global citizen cofounder hugh evans. >> tell us about paris. it looks pretty remarkable. >> we're thrilled to announce global citizen will be returning to the foot of the eiffel tower in paris with 20,000 global citizens with a free ticketed event where everyone will be taking action to address the climate crisis, specifically while president macron of paris will be hosting his global financial summit that's taking place that same day on june 22nd. we're mobilizing citizens to enable emerging markets to withstand natural disasters and transition to clean energy. this is a critical campaign and

we know we need to mobilize the whole world right now in support of this urgent issue. >> we all came together in new york about a month ago. you talked about some of the goals that you hoped would happen in paris with president macron's meeting. talk about that as well, about how the global north really needs to take some positive steps forward to aid and assist the global south. >> absolutely, joe. when you were interviewing president macron at the global citizen now summit, we spoke about three big priorities. the first is to encourage the private sector to commit to the race to zero and adopt science-based targets to ultimately half their carbon emissions by 2030 and go carbon neutral by 2050. the second thing we need is financial reform. for too long the world bank has

been completely asleep at the wheel and they were incredibly lazy over the last five years and didn't loan the sort of loans the world needs to ultimately transition to clean energy. under the new leader, we know we have an opportunity to see enormous world bank reform, but we need janet yellen's leadership and the white house's leadership to unlock capital for the world's poorest nations. finally, we need to see the world's most advanced economies support emerging markets as they committed to under the paris climate change accord. ultimately we're simply asking the u.s. government to do what it's already committed to do. >> ever since you started this, you've had huge goals. i think it's important to remind

global citizens exactly what their part in this is. so for someone going to the paris event or getting involved in global citizen, how do they have anything to do with the lofty goals you just put on the table, even impacting the decisions made by major financial institutions? >> we know that ultimately we live in a democracy and we live in some of the world's greatest democracies. world leaders are elected officials and they respond to the will of citizens not just once every three or four years during an election, but every time you reach out to your elected official and ask them to take action. that's why global citizen and everything we do is about action taking. you download the global citizen app. your voice, when you're part of a movement of millions of

citizens and together calling on janet yellen or rj banger, they can't possibly ignore your voice. that's why when you call for reform, these reforms happen. the way you earn your way into paris is by taking action. we want to invite citizens all around the world starting today to be part of this movement, sign up and take urgent action and use your voice to create change. >> it sounds like what bobby kennedy in south africa in 1966 said, that it will be from a million different acts of this generation that will define actually what the generation does. this is exactly what you do with every one of these events. thank you so much. quickly, tell everybody about the event itself and who's going to be performing and what they can expect. >> what's going to happen is that billie eilish and lenny

kravitz and others will be performing this free event with 20,000 global citizens at the base of the eiffel tower while president macron hosts the meeting of world leaders that same day. so we want everyone to be part of it and sign on today. >> global citizen cofounder hugh evans, thank you very much. for more information visit globalcitizen.org/powerourplanet . it is seconds away from the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." there's a lot to get to this hour, including a live report from the white house on the debt ceiling negotiations. and an alarming scene outside the gates as a driver crashed a u haul truck into security barriers. we'll have the latest on that.

also ahead, the battle over an extreme abortion bill in south carolina. we'll be joined by a republican state senator who is opposing the measure which is expected to come to a vote lather today. and is lebron james really ready to call it a career? he talked about it after last night's loss which eliminates the lakers from the playoffs. >> obviously for those waking up on the west coast right now, tough to see the lakers pushed out of the playoffs, but statement this denver team, i mean, people saw it coming. this denver team is absolutely dominant. >> yeah. they are so much fun to watch. if anybody hasn't caught them during the regular season, they are amazing. they were the best team in the west all season. they should be in the finals for the first time in the history of

the team, which is really cool. they will face likely the miami heat, who can close it out. they're up 3-0 on the celtics. congratulations to the nuggets and their fans, who have waited a half century to see their team on the finals. we begin with president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy meeting at the white house yesterday over the debt ceiling. that meeting lasted about an hour and a half and was called productive by both sides. no deal, though, was reached. let's go to kristin welker. good morning. what's the latest there? >> reporter: good morning. talks really are down to the wire here. a source familiar with the negotiations telling me overnight there's still no deal in sight. there's still a lot of sticking points. the debt limit is like the

nation's credit card bill. it's debt that the country already owes. the one encouraging sign is that both sides are talking and talking around the clock. the question is, will it be enough to avoid a potential economic disaster? overnight,negotiators leaving the capitol after urgent talks to raise the debt limit, showing signs of progress, but still no deal. it comes after a high-stakes oval office meeting earlier monday between president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy. both leaders describe the discussion as productive. speaker mccarthy expressing optimism moments after the talks wrapped. >> i think the tone tonight was better than any other time we've had discussions. i believe we can get it done. >> reporter: president biden saying while there are areas of disagreement, we'll continue to discuss the path forward. the two sides have found some

common ground, agreeing to recoup unspent covid funds, which should save $30 billion according to the white house. but republicans are calling for deep spending cuts, which democrats oppose, saying it could hurt programs like health care and education. republicans also want new work requirements for food and housing assistance, but democrats say that would punish poorer comments. the president wants to close tax loopholes for the wealthy, but republicans say that's a nonstarter. >> the problem is not revenue. the problem is spending. >> reporter: adding urgency, in a new letter to congress monday the treasury secretary forcefully reiterating the country's ability to borrow is highly likely to run out as early as june 1st. if the nation defaults or fails to pay the bills already spent, it could trigger an economic crisis, from a plummeting stock market, widespread job losses and even a recession. government payments would also be delayed for critical programs

like food stamps, social security and even benefits for gold star military families. remember, once a deal is reached, if that happens, it still has to get through the full house and the senate. that takes time, as you know, especially in this deeply divided congress. the president has not ruled out this option he has of taking action to raise the debt limit all on his own, invoking the 14th amendment. but experts have warned that could spark a drawn-out legal battle and even a potential constitutional crisis. >> the president doesn't want to go that route. i have to ask you about a story we mentioned at the top, which is that a truck crashed into a security barrier near the white house late last night. >> reporter: this is really disturbing. here's what we know so far. authorities arrested an adult male driver. he crashed his u haul truck into security barriers near the white house. the secret service saying this might have been intentional.

the suspect has been identified as a 19-year-old from missouri. according to law enforcement officials he was arrested on multiple charges, including threatening to kill or harm a president, a vice president or a family member. one official telling me the suspect made threatening statements about the white house at the scene. he was quickly detained. his truck did not contain weapons or explosiveexplosives. authority did seize a nazi flag at the scene. no one was injured. that suspect is still in custody and faces a range of charges. >> that is why those barriers are there. nbc's kristin welker, thank you so much for your reporting as always. we appreciate it. nebraska's republican governor celebrated as he signed a more restrictive abortion ban into law yesterday. the law prohibits the procedure at 12 weeks and includes

exceptions for rape, incest and to save the mother's life. it took effect immediately. the state previously banned the procedure at 20 weeks. the legislation also restricts gender- affirming medical care for people younger than 19. that portion of the law will begin in october. the governor signed the new law while holding the 5-day-old daughter of his friends and surrounded by his two oldest granddaughters. outside of the capitol chamber, protesters rallied against the restrictions. opponents have promised to sue to try to block the new ban. the south carolina legislature is set to vote on a six-week abortion ban as early as today. the bill already passed the house. a group of female lawmakers is aiming to keep it from passing as they have previous abortion attempts. the "washington post" reports three times over the past month as the gop leaders have sought

to prohibit most procedures, republican state senator sandy senn, franked by a bipartisan group of women in the senate, hustled to thwart what she believes to be an attempt to, quote, shackle women. the group, three republicans and an independent and a democrat who call themselves the sister senators filibustered for three days last month to defeat the near-total ban. sandy senn joins us now. thank you so much for being with us. it's pretty fascinating what's been happening in south carolina. i read how republicans are trying to adjust from some of the more extreme bans, total bans, no exception, six-week bans, no exception. they're moving more toward

12-week bans with exceptions and the 15-week mississippi ban and 20-week ban, which is of course where, if you look at the polls, where most americans are. talk about what you're doing in south carolina. >>ing right. i can tell you that we will have a difficult time with this particular bill because we are in last week of session and we have different rules that apply that didn't apply when we were able to stop the zero ban. now it's just going to be a matter of whether the five women -- and we know we're going to stick together -- can hold off to get a first trimester bill. we cannot do it, though, if we don't have at least two republican men to join us. we have one gentleman who did not vote in the last one who has come back from active duty. he's going to vote with the rest of the gentlemen.

it is going to be a matter of whether we can hold onto two of the men. anything can happen. it's going to be a nail-biter. >> so the goal is a first trimester ban through a ban at the end of the first trimester? >> well, that would not be the republican goal or the democratic goal, but it is for those of us who are really more moderate, because our bill currently is at 22 weeks. a lot of people think that's too long. the democrats think it needs to be 24 weeks. the overwhelming majority of men in my body want it to be zero. so we were able to stop the zero ban. six weeks, i think, a lot of people still feel is just not enough time. if we're lucky, we're going to get a 12-week. but really, unfortunately, that may or may not happen. we do at least hope we make the 6-week bill better. it's bad.

it has personhood language in it. it will lead up to another fight to go back to zero ban next year or total ban. we're just going to be moving in a whole bunch of different directions. we do have tricks up our sleeve. all the balls are up in the air right now. >> so i'm curious personally what would be a best case scenario for you? i understand this is going to be really tough to even get to what the group is trying to get to and to try and keep two republicans or two of the men possibly to vote with you. in a perfect world, what do you think it should be and why? >> i have advocated for the first trimester. i know a lot of people think it should be 15 weeks. our own supreme court, before they changed the supreme court just to deal with this issue, they were saying 15 week minimum. but we're not going to get that in this state. sometimes you just have to

compromise. if we get 12 weeks, i would consider that a victory. they want zero. the current law is 22. this is the fourth time we've taken up abortion since september. we're supposed to be part-time legislators. we still do not have a trafficking and fentanyl law. all we do is argue about the unborn. it's sometime to find some type of common ground. >> thank you very much for coming on. there is new reporting this morning about the effect donald trump's 2024 campaign is having on potential republican down ballot candidates. a new piece from politico looks at how the president's early dominance in polling is spooking

some republicans considering running for the house or the senate. according to a dozen recruiters, political operatives and congressional hopefuls, quote, many perspective recruits are wary of running alongside trump, who forces his fellow republicans to answer for his unpredictable statements. >> jonathan lemire, i mean, we here from members that are leaving congress that they're sick and tired of everywhere they go having to answer the donald trump question. after 2022, the disaster after 2020, after 2018, this makes a lot of sense. people go, you know what, let's wait until trump leaves the field, then we can get out and actually complain on issues. >> they acknowledge privately that it's real. they're trying to recruit good candidates to win back the

senate or expand their slim majority in the house. some who are considering it think trump makes it much more challenging because of his toxic comments, because of further criminal indictments, because he repels so many suburban and swing voters that he is making this challenging. one candidate wondering about this now, david mccormick, rumored to be eyeing a campaign in pennsylvania, reluctant about jumping in because he's afraid of the trump effect. we know doug mastriano, a trump favorite, is going in again. this should further the debate the party had in 2022, of course, where it was trump's hand-picked candidates for so many of these seats went down in defeat. let's watch mcconnell here, if he's able to get his candidates in this time around as opposed to those hand picked by the

former president. >> john makes a good point about mccormick, who any other time would have been the republican nominee in the state of pennsylvania and would have had a really good chance to win that seat, military veteran, successful businessman. then here comes dr. oz, hand-plucked by donald trump and the rest is history. they lose the senate seat. does mitch mcconnell, who complained about, quote, candidate quality this pastime in midterms, does he intervene? and if he does, what does that even mean? does he have the power to stop donald trump from putting his hand-picked candidates into these races who by and large lost? >> and mitch was right. again, pennsylvania, dave mccormick, republicans couldn't have a better candidate running for the senate. then he pushed doug mastriano,

who got absolutely crushed. you go to michigan and you have tudor dixon talking about that bans are great because 14-year-old girls raped by their uncles need to be forced by the state to carry the rapist's baby. you go down to georgia and herschel walker. go out to arizona, kari lake instead of matt salmon or somebody else who would have won that governorship most likely in 2022. again, if you're any of these people, why in the world would you take that chance? you take a guy like dave mccormick, who is as good of a candidate as they could have had in pennsylvania. trump called him every name in the book, just completely disparaged him.

>> you mentioned kari lake. speaking of, the former arizona gubernatorial candidate has lost again trying to challenge her election defeat last november. more than six months later, a judge in arizona's largest county has ruled lake's team has failed to provide evidence of misconduct. additionally, the judge found no evidence that alleged misconduct affected the election's outcome. this was kari lake's only remaining legal challenge to her election loss. it bounced around multiple courts, including arizona's supreme court and an appeals court before the republican-appointed judge in maricopa county ultimately dismissed it. lake lost to katie hobbs by over

17,000 votes. a spokesperson for lake has not responded to a request for comment. >> when we talk about these judges, again, you had 63 federal judges and a lot of those federalist society judges, very conservative judges telling donald trump there's no widespread conspiracy, there's no widespread voter fraud. the united states supreme court and the three justices donald trump himself appointed said the same thing. remember donald trump talking about "my supreme court"? no. that's not how america works. he doesn't understand. you go out to arizona and look at the recounts there, one republican organization after another after another, you name it in maricopa county, you have republicans repeatedly recounting, rechecking. you had the ninja nerds or whatever they're called, cyber

dorks, they went out and actually recounted it and actually added to joe biden's vote totals. the same is happening in the gubernatorial race. you know, the republicans have spoken and said it's a fair race. >> it's a fair race. cyber ninjas. you're right about arizona. that connects these two stories, because this is a republican party still saddled with donald trump's false believe that he won in 2020. that's why potential candidates are reluctant to jump out there because they're going to have to answer those questions. we are seeing finally some in the gop presidential field saying president biden won, let's move forward. trump himself, who at this moment polls show is the heavy favorite, he simply won't do that. he refuses to talk about the future. he refuses to showcase his

vision of what a second term might be. he's instead simply stuck in the past and litigating a failed race. and kari lake, is considering now a run for the senate in arizona, potentially giving the republican party yet another problematic candidate. coming up on "morning joe," a household name in image editing software just joined the a.i. revolution. we'll have an exclusive look at the new features from photoshop that might have you questioning what's real. oshop that might have you questioning what's real. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter.

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the software company adobe today is expected to release a new version of it well-known program photoshop, one that incorporates artificial intelligence. nbc news correspondent jacob ward reports. >> technology makes it difficult, maybe even impossible to tell what's real and what's not. >> reporter: born in 1987, adobe's photoshop became the way a trained designer could alter reality. now, a.i.-powered art takes no more skill than typing a few words. that means anyone can make an alien world or a fake news photo. now the new photoshop allows you add a.i. to your pictures. >> i think the era of photoshop

just went into hyperactive mode. >> reporter: we got a first look. in their demo they showed me how to make a dog portrait a bit fancier. >> i could say spring trees with sunshine and hit generate. >> reporter: add artificial objects or backgrounds and photoshop will blend them with what's real. >> we'll type in a puddle. >> how hard would this have been using classic photoshop? >> easily hours of work. >> reporter: in the short-term, experts say certain jobs will be lost. >> you'll definitely get companies saying we don't have to hire a million dollar agency to do this for us. >> reporter: adobe says a.i. art

will not wipe out his company. >> we expect to see a 5x increase in the amount of content produced.'re creating t for professionals to keep up with demand. we've introduced content credentials. that says any content you come across on the internet will have a nutrition label. >> reporter: those labels will verify whether we're being shown images made or altered by a.i. we'll need to be able to trust something other than our eyes. >> jacob ward reporting. >> wow. in 2014, a man by the name of charlie weiss died the day after his 109th birthday. he was a family physician in kansas city, who had lived an extraordinary life. he treated mobsters gunned down

in the streets of al capone's chicago. he became one of the first doctors in america to be trained in anesthesiology. he performed surgery on the president of peru. an author became charlie's neighbor when he was 102 years old. david coucher and his relationship and bond he formed in his final years of charlie's life, wrote a book entitled "the book of charlie." great to have you. what a fascinating experience this must have been. >> you say here that light somehow seemed to rest more lightly on him than most of us.

explain that. >> well, the first time i ever saw him, it was a sunday morning and he was in his driveway, just a pair of shorts washing his girlfriend's car at age 102. i could tell right away this was somebody who had a lighter approach to life, somebody who figured out the secret of how to let go of the things that were outside of his control and to spend his time on the things he could affect. you know, this is the essence of an ancient philosophy called stoicism. >> i love this line. i came to realize charlie was not a survivor, he was a thriver. he did not just live, he lived joyfully. we're hearing more and more,

reading more and more medical studies that talk about stress and how that shortens people's lives. the ability to be like charlie, letting life be on him a bit lighter and not being a survivor, being a thriver, that seems to make such a huge difference in charlie's life and in others. >> yeah. i think it really does. the key is, this is a choice. the world is always, america has always been a divided, politically intense country. there have always been ups and downs in the economy. all the things that stress us now have been around throughout our history. people make choices about what they're going to focus on. i hear you every morning worrying about the ups and downs, too many downs of the red

sox. we could focus on the fact that they're in the american league east. everybody's a winner there. we could focus on the beauty of walking into fenway park on a sun splashed afternoon. there's nothing better in the world. so we choose our moods. we choose the way we emphasize hope over fear, we emphasize joy over anger. >> it's jonathan lemire. i certainly cannot take that nearly glass half full view of the red sox, i'm sorry to say. >> that's because you're not trying to cheer for the royals this year. >> i guess that's true. give us one or two other little nuggets, something that charlie said to you or as you observed him you realized this is something that could help shape my own life for the better.

>> i remember one time that his daughter, who was also a neighbor of ours, was upset about something going on in the neighborhood. after listening for a little while to her, charlie just looked at her and said, you've got to let that go. i don't let people like that bother me. it was an insight for me, because i have a tendency, being a journalist, to get wrapped up in conflict, to focus on bad news. another thing was i'd go over from time to time burdened by the troubles of my kids and charlie would always focus me on the big picture, the ways in which they were doing really well and get me up out of what can be depressing or stressful details.

there was this wisdom. i figured out that we spent a lot of our lives figuring out that life is complicated, that the world is more difficult than it seems to us as little kids. but in charlie i noticed that if you live long enough, that process reverses and you start to simplify life and figure out what really matters. at the end of his life, he wrote down the things he had learned in 109 years, what was most important to him. they were short little instructions for life, things like enjoy wonder, observe miracles, take time to listen to the rain or to look at a rainbow. these simple things that seemed like almost greeting cards, it turns out they're true.

they're not trite, they're true. >> i love what you were saying. it's a great reminder don't suffer twice. don't worry about what might happen. wait until it happens and then approach it. also, though, you said you tried to write a children's book for your children and you never could do it. you felt like that was a failure. you say this book may be your redemption. this may be the book you always want to write for your children. >> you know, i'm just struck by how much change my children are going to have to live through as they go through what will probably be their long lives in

the 21st century. but in charlie, i see somebody who observed and survive and thrived through tremendous change. he was born in the days of horses and buggies and lived to see rovers on mars. he was born before radio, before tv and lived to have an iphone in his hand. this is tremendous change. he had to reinvent his career halfway through, go from being a general practitioner doctor making house calls to being one of kansas city's first answer anesthesiologists. he lost his father when he was young, he lost a wife when he was young. so i hope that my kids can see that change can be your friend, change can be a door that's opening into something even

better and doesn't have to be something that we fear. >> "the book of charlie, wisdom from the remarkable life of a 109-year-old man" is available now. thank you for vieting this book and telling the story and thank you for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead, the man accused of killing four college students in idaho is one step closer to standing trial. we'll have an update on that case, including an odd moment in court yesterday. , including an n court yesterday. disease skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor that can deliver clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

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stabbing these university of idaho students to death months ago. >> do you understand the charge of count 3, murder in the first degree? >> yes. >> do you understand the maximum penalty? >> yes. >> reporter: but to the charges, he said nothing. >> mr. kohberger is standing silent. i'm going to enter a not guilty plea. >> reporter: kohberger's legal team signaling they're prepared to go to trial less than six months from now in october. before that, prosecutors have 60 days to decide whether they'll seek the death penalty. >> the goncalves family would like the death penalty. >> reporter: kayleigh's family was in court on monday. meanwhile, new reporting on suspicions arising within bryan

kohberger's own family over the holidays, saying one of his sisters noticed he'd been wearing latex gloves, quite loudly pointing out he'd been living miles from the murder scene and driving the same car authorities were looking for. a source close to the family saying they have no comment on the report. days later, he'd be behind bars, now gearing up for the trial of his life. coming up, we'll show you what lebron james had to say about his future in the nba after the lakers were swept last night by the denver nuggets. t b. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing]

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beautiful live picture of denver, colorado. it's 7:46 in the morning as we pull back with a shot of coors field, where the rockies are doing their best. the denver nuggets, though, are headed to the nba finals for the first time in franchise history after that sweep of the lakers last night. lebron james fuelled rumors he may have played his final game, though some of us are skeptical of that. let's turn it over to miguel almaguer for details. >> it's over! >> reporter: last night, the top-seeded denver nuggets reaching the team's first nba finals, sweeping the los angeles lakers despite a brilliant performance from lebron james, who scored 40 points. after the game, the lakers' legend reflecting on the season, appearing to leave open the possibility he may have played his final nba game. >> we'll see what happens going forward. i don't know.

i don't know. i got a lot to think about, to be honest. i got a lot to think about, to be honest. >> reporter: espn also reporting that after the game, james said he plans to consider retirement in the off season. >> lebron james a shot at history. lebron stands alone! >> reporter: earlier this year, the 38-year-old became the nba's all-time leading scorer in a career that saw him live up to the incredible hype to become one of the best ever to play the game. one of the final goals of his iconic career, to play alongside his son in the nba. but the younger james, who recently committed to playing college hoops at usc would not be able to enter the league until the 2024-2025 season, which may be a long way off for the aging superstar. >> just for me personally going forward with the game of basketball, i got a lot to think

about. >> john, that's in the depth of a loss that ended the season. of course he's feeling the way he's feeling. but 38 years old, still averaged 30 points a game this season, took that team to the western conference finals, he can still play. the question is, does he want to continue? >> he takes remarkable care of his body. he's had a lot of injuries. certainly after defeat, you start thinking about the future differently. he has said publicly over and over that he wants to play with his son. that would mean two more seasons. maybe he could still do it. it's also pointed out if he plays two more years, the lakers host it. i'm saying we'll see him in october. >> that's also a lot of pressure on his son, who's a high school senior right now. they're saying go to usc for one

year and join your dad in the nba, assuming he gets drafted in the nba. >> that's an awful lot. 40 points last night. but when you're playing at his level, whether you're michael or magic or larry, you're not playing to get to the western conference finals. so we'll see. and we've heard about the possibility of some trades to the lakers. maybe they pick up a player or two so he's not carrying as much of a load, that would certainly help. so in 2021, forbes and know your value released our inaugural 50 over 50 list, which spotlights women who have rejected spotlights women that have list rejected the conventional wisdom that their best years are behind them.s well, now just got one more week to submit nominations for our next class of women, who are proving that success, of course, has no age limit.

this list is for women in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and beyond, and we have had such success with it. joining us now with more, the chief content officer of forbes, randall lane.cel randall, just give us an update on how the nomination process is going, and what do viewers need to know? they can nominate themselves even, right? >> you can nominate yourselves, you can nominate a mentee, mentor, m mentee. we have one more week, june 1stn but we're seeing, of course, likeof every deadline, it forcea lot of action, we're seeing a ton of action, a lot of amazing people being nominated. my favorite being probably peggy whitson who right now was just nominated last week, and she's currently leading -- the first woman ever to command a private space station mission. she's up -- she launched on sunday and she's up on the axiom spacecraft heading -- orbiting toward theng international spac station. >> that is so very cool.

>> it really is. and, of course -- >> over 50. >> yeah. that's over 50. and the event that you guys had just a couple months ago, just an extraordinary success. i'm sure you're still trying to, again, gettr your arms around everything that happened there. >> we're just seeing -- we're seeing some -- we'll be back next year and we're already getting a lot ofan people raisi their hand. the core idea that we could turn it into international women's dayrn from a hashtag and slogano an actual event and create something so that onev that day andso across that week we're dog something that furthers the idea that women, you know, their best years, their experience, the fact that they have time -- more time to achieve over 50 and that event embodies it. >> yeah. long runway, a great mentoring event. >> a great mentoring event. a i hope you don't mind, i want t, change the subject for a second.

because, well, my dad is from kentucky. so we -- >> i know where this is going. >> my family grew up -- my dad would take us out to the horse track early and it was just, you know, belmont, he always went to the preakness. he's from kentucky. it was a requirement. but you're a part of the starting of a league that is kind of unlike anything i've seen or my dad ever saw in a horse racing, and somebody, i think "rolling stone" has an article on it this morning and a lot of other people that say it is kind ofer like a formula one >> the ntl. >> the formula one of horse racing. what in the world isho that? >> we have the national thoroughbred league, and it did launch thisth morning officiall and we're seeing a ton of articles on it and we're excited. my grandfather, joe, was also a horseman, he spent 50 years going tohe the track every sing

day. it is america's original spectator sport, but the only sport that has a lot of issues, the only sport that retiring -- we talked about lebron james, the onlyle sport that retires i stars as soon as they become famous. like retiringy -- if a horse ws a kentucky derby at 3 years old or she's 3 yearsfill fillys win as well. this is ays league that will create stars byle bringing the same horses year, month after month, year after year, it is going to take the core idea of what isin working in every othe sports league, which is teams andch cities represented, so th people actually r have somethin toy root for versus number 4 i the fifth race. and most of all, like you mentioned, formula one, it is going to bene fun, it is going i take the kentucky derby spirit, you know, that your dad loved andat you loved going with him too, make itd a family affair, make it something you can build a wholeg weekend around. thoroughbred racing isen one of the great spectacles and when it

isec done well, it is as good a anything in america. it isyt as american as anything america and we're going to bring that on awe monthly basis and he that kind of pageantry. >> so, randall, you have teams representing different cities across the country, new york, new jersey, separate teams, new york hasje one, and new jersey, los angeles, seattle, nashville, philadelphia. the owners we had up "rolling stone,"ro nelly is an owner, riy rose, rick ross is an owner. how do you begin to start a sports league? it seems daunting. how did you pull it off? >> it is something a bunch of us worked on -- it is a passion project. and we're doing it chbecause, again, thisit is a sport that y see all these franchises, all these sports and you see sports appreciation go crazy. thoroughbred racing has muddled by. and why? it is missing -- most people

can't read a form, and most people can't name one single horse outside of the triple crown horses that currently race. so it is taking a lot of these things and we have an unbelievable team that came at together. celebrities and horsege experts and topd jockeys and top trains and we have people from chad brown to steve and the best woman jockey innd the world, al came together because this is something that we could takehe some of the basics of what makes, you know, sports so great, affinity, rooting for teams, rooting for stars, having fun, and bring it to the original american spectator sport, thoroughbred racing, they have been doingre it here for 3 years. >> let's ask the question i'm sure many people are asking, what about the safety protocols? it is something that mika loves horses and she'll watch the derby with mewa and the preakne and the belmont and others, she's very concerned obviously about the safety of the horses because she's ridden them her whole life. we saw what happened the week of thet kentucky derby. ite was just a nightmare. we saw what happened in the

preakness and an earlier race. talkli about the safety protoco that you all are putting in place. >> we're -- we think this is a great time to launch because part of what -- part of -- it ia about reimagining thoroughbred racing and part of the issue is you have a thoroughbred racing, you have t thousands of owners d thousands of trainers and 50 states all with their own regulatory systems andei dozensf tracks all with their own rules, so thereh is no one body that n enforce safety rules. there isfo a federal law, it is trying to put into edplace, but some statesng are pushing againr it. what we're doing, creating a closed league with athletes like every other league that only race within our league, we can enforce our own safety standards. we'll accept every single local and track wide safety standard, we'll embrace all of them, we'll put in our own, because we're a controlled league, we can do our

own safety protocols that are above and beyond, thatsa includ top veterinarians and top safeti officer in charge of the horse safety. it is not up to the trainer or theup owner about whether a hor is fit to race, it is about an independent commission, so therd is an advocate and that person has say a over who races, not ts owners, not the trainers, not even the tracks. >> chief content officer at a forbes, randall lane, thank you very, very much. congratulations. all right. >> and that it for us. randall is gone now. he just went i'm out of here. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in two minutes. we will see you tomorrow. tes. we will see you tomorrow diabetes can serve up a lot of questions, like, "what is your glucose?" and "can you have more carbs?" before you decide... with the freestyle libre 2 system know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence.

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