producers who understood what she would be able to do in the next chapter. i was thinking like she relaunched her career on mtv, she was one of the first older performers to do so. she did it in a way where she was like your cool older aunt or even like a young grandmother saying like i know what you're going through, i've been through this. i know. you know. >> she knew. >> you look at the "what's love got to do with it" video and that's what she's saying. >> you're right. thank you both for sharing your thoughts on this significant day with the passing of rock icon, the legend tina turner at the age of 83 at her home in switzerland. that's it for me, i'll see you noon eastern saturday, "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ >> hi there, everyone.

it's 4:00 in washington d.c. a hail mary move by the disgraced ex-president that serves as an indication that special counsel jack smith may well be close to making a decision on whether or not to indict donald trump. we're at donald trump's dear attorney general, the special counsel is being mean to me phase. make no mistake we have been here before. late yesterday lawyers for the ex-president asked for a meeting with merrick garland. the letter itself was brief, filled with the usual trump rhetoric about being persecuted despite the fact that the ex-president is the one who has resisted handing over some of the nation's most sensitive intelligence secrets. documents he kept just one lock, one door away from hundreds of people at his pay for membership club to the government who rightfully owned the documents and asked for them back. "the new york times" says the

letter asserts that trump is treated unfairly in the investigations led by jack smith. "the washington post" is reporting while it's not unusual for lawyers to seek an audience with senior justice department officials towards the end of a federal criminal investigation, team trump's approach is not how things work. here's more con text from the post, quote, for one thing those meetings are generally negotiated in private, not publically demanded. also it's uncommon for meetings to take place with the attorney general, in trump's case a meeting with the attorney general would be more unusual and problematic because the special counsel appointment envisioned smith acting with greater autonomy than other prosecutors in the justice department. while the chances of merrick garland agreeing to a meeting are close to nothing, the letter does reflect some degree of desperation on the part of

donald trump. the status of jack smith's other line of inquiry into trump's efforts to reverse his election loss is less clear. a wave of reporting suggests that at no point in the nine months since the documents case burst into public view has it appeared that special counsel jack smith is as close to making a decision on charges as he is right now. team trump seeking a meeting with attorney general merrick garland, as at least one of the investigations into the ex-president nears its end is where we begin today with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. neil katia is here, law professor at georgetown university. here with us national investigative reporter for "the washington post" carol lenox. and a katty kay joins us, all

msnbc contribute ers. you wrote the special counsel regulations, neil. explain how going to merrick garland may not be the thing that trump thinks it is. >> yeah. it's clear that trump is trying to do this last ditch effort. it's the kind of thing you do before you think you're about to be indicted. and it's likely going nowhere. the regulations were drafted to make sure that someone independent would investigate something high level presidential wrong doing and someone that wasn't appointed by the president or the opponent of the president or something like that. that is what jack smith is operating under. those regulations provide that jack smith is to have day-to-day independence and his decisions to be afforded great weight by the attorney general. so the attorney general can overrule it but there's a very high standard. here garland has signalled that

he believes jack smith should basically make these calls. he'll jump in if something is wrong, that's what he did in the durham investigation, another special counsel appointed under similar authority and garland, even though durham was going off the rails in ten different directions, just let him go on and conclude his investigation the way he saw fit. durham tried to bring two prosecutions against individuals, both of those fizzled in front of the jury, which is an amazing thing to have an 0-2 loss in front of injuries if you're a criminal prosecutor, but nonetheless garland had a hands off approach. and that's what i think donald trump himself is thinking. if you were a serious lawyer and you wanted to have a meeting with the attorney general, the way to do it is not write this letter which is about hunter biden and being treated unfairly and this and that and giving it to the press right away. that's not conducive to the kind

of serious justice department meeting that would otherwise be -- you know, otherwise take place. >> i want to press on something you're pointing out about what durham put in his own words in the durham report. he makes explicit that merrick garland didn't interfere in any way with charging decisions or aspect of his investigation. is it your sense that is to be understood as the merrick garland standard when it comes to special counsels? >> absolutely. i think that's what the attorney general said when he appointed jack smith as well. it makes sense. that's the way the regulations were envisioned. you have two different possible prosecutors here. one guy who's independent, not political. he wasn't named by a president, either the president's party or the opponent's party and you have another guy, the attorney general, merrick garland, who is a presidential appointee. now he has a long standing reputation in washington of being bipartisan, a respected

jurist on both sides of the aisle but nonetheless, a political appointee. so as between those two talking about something as sensitive as do you indict a former president it would make the sense in the world that's a jack smith determination. that's what donald trump is afraid of. he's afraid of having someone independent do it. if he's someone political he can trash it as being political or this or that. this is trump's worst nightmare. >> before jack smith was trump's worst nightmare a man named robert mueller was his worst nightmare. these were the times he tried to meet with mueller. >> are you going to meet with mueller? >> looking forward to it. >> would you like to testify to special counsel robert mueller? >> thank you. i would love to speak. i would love to. nobody wants to speak more than me. against my lawyers. because most lawyers say never speak on anything.

i would love to speak because we've done nothing wrong. there was no collusion with the russians. >> he's been under scrutiny for so long we know how he acts when he feels something is getting close to him. he still believes, the fact that his defense attorney quit last week it's the same, he thinks he's his own defense attorney. >> i'm glad you flashed back, it's a memorable day for me. we didn't know at the time when donald trump sauntered down to john kelly's office to do an impromptu remark about how much he wanted to meet with robert mueller, he had just met with his lawyers and agreed there was no way he was sitting with mueller. >> that's when they go for written responses. >> it's very soon after they cancel the helicopter that's going to go to camp david for

the planned interview p. it's just, to me, this moment connects with the moment you are so perfectly zeroing in on today. donald trump is the master in his own mind of the legal strategy but more importantly the communication strategy. and he is the guy who has decided, neal pointed this out beautifully, he's decided i'm going to break my own news, it's unjust, outrageous and unfair i'm being investigated. i asked the attorney general for help because i know the charngs charges are looking like they're likely. we've been hearing at the post for weeks now that the case is nearly cooked and it's expected there will be charges. those have not gone to the attorney general yet but it's looming and donald trump knows that too. >> do you have a sense? it sounds like from the letter they may have a sense of the timing. is it days, weeks?

>> i wouldn't be so bold as to suggest. i've had sources who have incite into this world who said they think it's weeks. but i don't think we can say for sure. there were some people who argued that labor day was the final day for a possible charging decision, because after that moment jack smith and, by extension, the attorney general, get into a very heated political calendar. >> right. it's a political year for sure. >> neal do you want to jump in on the timing of that as someone who understands the procedural schedules and what would happen after a charging decision is made? >> i think carol is right, we don't know. it's a black box. it looks like most of the investigation steps are concluded now and the rule is you bring prosecution when it's ready. you don't look to external influences or things like that. my expectation is this is going to be soon. that's what -- you know, the scope of the investigation, how

it heated up in the last few weeks, you know, "the washington journal" story which broke some of this said there's still some investigation left to be done but i suspect it's not much. now there's a caveat, in georgia, for example, the prosecutor said indictments were quote imminent and then there was a snafu hit because it looks like some of the defendants are represented by the same lawyer and not necessarily getting all the attorney representation that they're entitled to get conflict free so that delayed things. so you can always have a delay. but i think carol is right, the attorney general is also thinking about the clock. not just the election -- not just the campaign clock but also the election. and if a republican wins, say it's desantis or something like that. they may try to pardon trump and avoid these charges. so you want to try to get this to a jury so you have a final record of what the jury thinks

happened before the prosecution might otherwise be trun trunk indicated so i think they're facing that as well. >> i think because it's loomed for so many years, this is maybe the first time in a post presidency it's loomed in such a serious way to hear neal go through that is just really striking. i do want to show you what trump's lawyer is saying in his defense. this may be actually in response -- when i say this you'll say i'm covering trump too long. i feel this is in response to bill barr and ty cobb, ty cobb saying he's likely to go to jail and bill barr saying this is likely the gravest threat to donald trump. let me show you. >> president trump in order to prepare the work the next day often took documents including classified documents to the residence. he had a standing order that documents removed from the oval office were deemed to be

declassified the moment he removed them. >> the angle is to try to create daylight between joe biden's possession of documents and president trump's. it's not going to work. they have literally put in everybody in the grand jury you can imagine. they don't respect any privilege that president trump holds and it's desperately trying to find an obstruction angle that isn't there. >> he may be a good lawyer but these are ludicrous messages. this is absolutely bottom of the stuff from the communication standpoint. there's no such thing you have know more intelligence officials than i do. there's no thing that any document that moves from the oval to home is declassified. no such thing. nothing that president obama or president bush or anyone who had that job would say i had a standing order anything i carried with me. that's ludicrous. that means target, that's insane, no way it's accurate. if trump thought it that's the

only place that standing order existed. even his lawyers can't say he's not in deepda doo when it comes to obstruction. >> you know you can't do that. it's not a thing that happens. if it -- no, it's just not a thing. if there was an exceptional circumstance under which it might happen, but i have never heard of that happening. >> in fairness -- i agree with you both. but i think it's been a complication for the prosecutors to think about, this is a president, a former president, he can't mind meld documents from classified to declassified, not cool. but he does have supreme declassification authority, he is the number one authority on this issue. so i think it's been a tough road for prosecutors to navigate that and figure out how do we charge somebody who is now going to claim i had some special access to this material. >> let's put some granularity

around it. he didn't go home and study the threats to the homeland he took his love letters from kim jong-un. >> i'm sorry i interrupted you, i was thinking how important the point you were making is, the evidence of obstruction is what separates the case and what the lawyers are saying is it's not that much difference between biden and trump. biden found documents -- >> or pence. >> or pence. they called and said we have something here. in the case of former president trump, he, there is evidence according to people that we spoke to there's evidence he knew he wasn't supposed to be taking this material and it's classified and he should return it. he was warned about that. there's evidence that after he gets a subpoena he arranges for materials to be moved from the location these documents are stored and does not instruct his own attorney, yeah, i happen to have more records in my bedroom, and in my office, and in this

other part of the storage facility that i did not suggest you search in. so all of those pieces make this so different and kind of blow away the issue of can i declassify in my brain? can i, you know, genie wink and it's no longer classified. >> even if he was declassifying it in his brain and there was a standard, presumably there would have to be a paper trail to prove it from the beginning. some documentation saying anything that leaves donald trump's oval office and goes to his residence is what it is. it's night and day with pence and biden. >> this is just public facing on the obstruction face. it's in what the department releases after the extraordinary court approved search of mar-a-lago. they have surveillance tape. we've learned that they've

shaken mar-a-lago upside down, talked to the valet. they then take the dramatic step of piercing about five attorney/client privilege defense attorneys that have been before the grand jury. talk about your sense of how the case develops. >> that's why i think bill barr is right on this one thing, trump is facing a likely indictment on this. because attorney/client privilege is the most sacred in our system. it's designed so when a client comes in and wants to tell me what happened happened they can tell me the story and alieu me to advocate for them and not have it spill out into the open. here the trial judge said there's evidence of a serious crime and evidence it was ongoing and an attorney may be involved in it. so they pierced the image. so it went up to the nation's second highest court, the d.c.

circuit. which agreed. so that's why the evidence of obstruction that carol is referring to is so, so overwhelming. so those clips you were showing from that trump attorney. you said maybe he's a good lawyer but he's terrible at coms. no this is terrible lawyering. there's a reason why the privilege was pierced which is the attorneys themselves had evidence of ongoing criminal activity and it looks like it was donald trump doing it. that's why this represents a serious threat. one other point on this whole notion of declassifying in one's mind. it's absolutely right that there has to be some documentation of it. also as a practical matter it makes no sense. if you take some seriously classified document and bring it home with you so it's declassified then it would stay declassified. and those are things having our spies, our sources and methods that becomes open access to reporters, whatever, that can't possibly be the law.

so carol is right, it may have been caused a little bit of a complication in the prosecutors' examination of the case but i don't expect jack smith to buy that argument for one second. it's bogus through and through. >> i remember pressing sue gordon on this. she said the authority is absolute, like the pardon power. what it sets off, you have to alert the cia, the allies, most of -- the majority of our intel does not come from us. you have to alert state, because they may be -- the number of people we have to tell. the notion that any piece of paper he took was declassified seems so farfetched even for the trump white house. >> a lot of things did -- >> didn't go there. >> didn't go according to the norm, though. i think about how a really good story by "the washington post" and my colleagues there revealed that things were falling off the

cart essentially at the end in terms of how classified records were being handled. so maybe donald trump's mind believes there was a standing order if if i take it home it's declassified. in a sense that is actually bizarre world but it was happening. he was taking things home. he was having his valet carry things in a va lease -- >> in a box. a moving box he took on foreign trips. i asked, at least we were all there to watch. >> it goes to the residence, i want to read this at home but that's not how this is supposed to work. the handler, the briefer. can you imagine mike morale going here's the document give it back to me. that's the document, how it's supposed to happen. you show it for the purpose of the meeting and then sign the document as the briefer that you have retained that document. you've returned it to its locked cabinet and that was not happening at the end of this administration. >> but part of the problem was that trump didn't think he was

going. so that was that chaotic period in which trump was in denial about the fact that he had lost the election. so nothing was being processed. the whole transition was not processed in the way it should have been processed. the biden administration came in with no briefings from the trump administration because they weren't leaving. because you never want to say to the boss we lost, should we start preparing those memos. >> and meadows, what meadows should have been doing is organizing the return of all the documents to respective -- in a normal white house, the briefer was doing that but he wasn't briefed every day. neal, tell me if what jack smith has really pierced is delusion, bizarre-o land on earth two? >> it is insane, you're right. you and i both handled highly sensitive classified documents.

you would never treat them this way, it makes no sense. and you know, i do think that the upshot of this whole conversation we're having is that i think someone like jack smith is going to focus much more not on the transition period and the initial taking of documents, but rather on trump's lying about taking the documents afterwards, moving them around, obstructing justice in way after way. and i think that will be the low cut of this prosecution should there be one. and i do expect that there will be one. you can't, if you're a prosecutor let this kind of conduct go unanswered. it is, you know, a threat to our national security. it's a threat to law enforcement, if this were any other -- if this were any other person, there would be a criminal indictment right now every day of the week. >> neal katyal, great to get you in on these developments. carol great to have you here at

the table. katty sticks around this afternoon. and coming up, warning of attacks ahead of next year's election. the bullet citing the terror threat will get worse as misinformation continues to spread. this has to be a sign things are not going well for a new presidential candidate. hours after jumping into the presidential contest, florida governor ron desantis will make his an announcement in a forum with the cameras off and sitting next to a man who also decided there's no place for free and fair and disinformation free speech in our country. and later in the broadcast, amanda goreman who wowed a nation and the world at president joe biden's inauguration. just days after the insurrection has become the latest flash point in today's culture wars. we'll tell you about that and

chasti buttigieg will be our guest when "deadline: white house" returns. don't go anywhere. deadline: whi house" returns don't go anywhere.

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out this afternoon, a chilling new report by the department of homeland security warning of the heightened threat of terrorism around the 2024 election. potential targets could include the nation's critical infrastructure, faith-based institutions, government facilities and minority communities. dhs writes in its report, quote, in the coming months, dhs expects the threat environment to remained heightened and individuals may be motivated to violence by perceptions of the 2024 general election cycle.

the national terrorism advisory system said. adding, quote, legislative or judicial decisions pertaining to political issues may also motivate attackers. it may arrive as misinformation spreads in 2024 as it did in 2020. that the u.s. election system is rigged or flawed. the report adding, quote, other potential targets of violence include schools, racial and ethnic minorities, individuals or events associated with the lgbtq community, government personnel and law enforcement. and potential attackers could include both domestic violence extremists and those motivated by the ideology of foreign terrorist organizations. joining our coverage michael steele and val demings. katty is back with us. michael steele i read it three times now and i have a hard time

coming up with a long list of who's not threatened. >> yeah. it's -- it's -- this report is stunningly important and incredibly presh yent about what lies ahead. and the problem is, nicole, all the people who should be paying attention to this are so caught up in the politics of this moment that they're being persuaded not to take it seriously, not to look at it, and not to lean into really addressing it before something god awful happens again. and that is the reality we're faced with. and i hate to say it, there's so much about our government that is reactive. there's nothing proactive. there's no one saying, hey, this is a problem that's staring us in the face, let's take a moment and address it. it's not until it gets to the point where you can do very little to really have an impact

in that moment because you're picking up pieces and you're dealing with, you know, broken windows and people attacking police officers and other things that are going on that you could have avoided. just by reading the report that tells you the thing you're dealing with is going to happen. >> michael, you are always one of the on air real-time stewards of sort of calling fouls about the way we cover trump. but i just want to put this out there, and i really mean this as only an effort for all of us to get smarter and better. but what dhs and the counterterrorism experts are warning is that misinformation at the intersection of hate, it's not just extraneous or random information about minorities or lgbtq communities it's hate. the intersection of terrorism and hate is an intersection at

the homeland. what happened at the cnn town hall trump started by saying millions of votes were stolen in 2020 then he said other countries are sending migrants from their mental institutions and pro democrats want to kill the baby after it's born. he's sitting at the intersection of hate and many misinformation. >> absolutely. absolutely. which is why this period going into '24 is heightened in terms of the danger that lies ahead. at the root of that, nicole, which gets to, i think, the nub of your point, we don't call the thing what it is. we can't even acknowledge that there is such a thing as domestic terrorism in this country. the kkk is a domestic terrorism group. proud boys is a domestic terrorism group. why can't we call the thing that? oh, i know, because they're not every day pillaging and

plundering? no, but they're plotting like hell. and we're seeing the handywood, and seeing evidence of that handiwork in other ways. sometimes it doesn't manifest itself as clearly and precisely as you like it to be. with very clearly drawn outlines, emails and notices saying, hey, we're about to do some uglyish. right. that's not how it works which is why reports like this identifying this intersection that is creating and fermeanting the kind of ugliness, the underbelly of which is manifest in moments like we saw with cnn, where you have a former president purveying just without abandon in it and the network sitting there, ratings look good, right? what do you think happens from all of this? how does this play itself out? it plays itself out in something

that could be potentially far worse than january 6th because it happens in not just one location but as the report warns, multiple locations across the country. what do you do then when it's not happening at the same time and it's not localized in the same spot and the drum beat is the same in every instance, nicole. that intersection you just identified between disinformation and hate. >> val demings may have the answers. so glad you're here. let me ask you, if the language is part of the problem? i feel like people get wrapped around the axle of political speech, it's hard for the fbi to be watching these groups. these groups are telling us who they are, what they believe, they're acting violently on some of the beliefs. they weren't hiding on january 6th. even after it ended they stood there like a freaking tailgate party. what needs to change to sort of

jolt the conversation into one of a more protective posture of the homeland? >> nicole, it's good to be with you. let me say this, i am glad to see the department of homeland security put out this notice that is so straight to the point and really lays out the problems that we have having in this country. because michael is right we have a tendency to be reactive. wait until something happens and let's move. but this is a proactive approach to show that we are in trouble. and yes, it starts with the language. look, we have seen this, we have seen the escalation in domestic violence extremism during the trump years. i was in the capital on january 6th. we saw what words led to in that instance where people broke windows and doors out of the capitol, beat police officers down with pipes and bats and

flagpoles carrying the american flag. this is a warning. it's chilling. and it should be. you asked the question who's not on the list. there's not many who's not on this list. but we have to have, and this is a term i try not to use as often i used to as a police chief, we have to have a zero tolerance for this type of behavior language in this country, and hold the one who inspires the hate accountable. >> with terrorism, i know that counterterrorism folks used to describe it as staying left of boom. do we have the tools to stay left of boom of domestic terrorism at this intersection of political grievance? >> we have -- i can remember several years ago when director wray was given a briefing in our homeland security committee meeting. and he said that the biggest threat facing our country today

is domestic violence extremism. and then we got off into a great discussion about because it is america and the constitutional rights that we have here, you know, it posed some challenges to doing proper investigations, having the tools, making the investments that we need to have to be able to properly investigate this type of behavior. but nicole, you've seen it. we've all seen it. we're seeing people die, people who were gunned down at grocery stores because of the color of their skin. people gunned down in synagogues because of their religion. we have to step up as a nation and put the processes in place to thoroughly investigate these acts of hate, acts of violence and hold the people accountable who perpetrate them. >> let me be blunter yet. i remember after stand back and stand by a former trump official

saying to me, he's not going to walk it back because he wants their votes. >> whose votes? >> the proud boys and people who see the world the way they do. i wonder if this isn't now almost desensitized as part of the right's coalition. >> i wonder if it's not in the system even were donald trump unfortunately disappear from politics it would be out there still. i think the virus of hate and the permissiveness, particularly on the right, white nationalist, white supremacists groups is so elevated in the country now. when i traveled around the country it is normalized and people feel it's okay to do this. you know having gone through 9/11, every time there's an attack of this nature by somebody who subscribes to right wing, white nationalist, a part of my brain thinks what if it's

a muslim. you asked if we had the tools, would more tools be used or if they were used more effectively if we faced a threat that more americans said let's clamp down hard but i think there is a reluctance as the congresswoman was saying on a way to use the tools on groups in this country. >> michael, we carry the burden of making this clear. this is not a both sides problem politically. it's not a both sides problem in terms of what was alerted today in the department of homeland security. there aren't two parties seeking to target lgbtq community. yet there is only the voice -- i hope some voices emerge. i haven't seen all the republican members of the senate and house committee statements today. i hope there's some bipartisan commitment to tackling this without politics as a consideration. but i'm not going to hold my breath.

>> neither am i. neither should any of us for that matter because it's not coming. that conversation you just revealed with you and one of trump's, you know, persons saying that yeah, he's not going to retreat from this because he wants those votes. those votes are now, baked into the base of the party, those votes are baked into the house caucus. marjorie taylor greene gave a speech at a white nationalist rally, gosar, same thing. where was the outcry for showing up and giving a speech? if you can't condemn a speech, when do you think you're going to start condemning behavior, and when do you take a report like homeland security has put out and say, we have to start doing something because this is a real problem for all of us, not just those in blue states or red states, but the entire country? that's not happening.

there's no critical thinking around this subject. again, if something god awful happens, nicole, guess what, people find the bank of microphones and stand there and do what? what are they going to do, nicole? thoughts and prayers. >> thoughts and prayers. >> express some concern. it's no different than the gun story. no difference than what we see happening on the gun issue playing out now in this space. and again, no one wants to lean in and do what they need to do, which is why -- and get back to the bottom line. if y'all want the change everyone claims they want, you have to unelect these s.o.b.s who give you the same old same old pudding that's day old and stale as hell and killing people. you control the narrative, not them. >> it's a mic drop moment i'm going to let be the last word on this. i need all of you to stick around. when we come back we'll discuss the curious case of one ron

desantis. the florida governor is set to announce his candidacy for president in mere moments but what does that mean, what does it mean for a republican who appears to be allergic to interactions with actual, normal voters. we'll look at how that's going to go down tonight next. to go down tonight next. (man) it's pretty simple. i kinda just want things the way i want them. (woman) i want a network that won't let me down. even up here! (woman #2) with an unlimited plan that's truly right for me. (woman #3) with verizon's new myplan, i get exactly what i want. and only pay for what i need. (man #2) now i'm in charge... ...of my plan. (vo) introducing myplan from verizon, the first and only plan where you pick your perks... ...and save on every one. so you get exactly what you want and only pay for what you need. and it all starts at just $30. on the network you want.

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>> about an hour to see you. >> nice. >> great job. >> thanks for doing that. that was nice. how much is that worth? >> you don't get to use your fingers to eat pudding. here are the rules. if you have pudding but you don't have a spoon, then you don't have pudding. >> we apologize to any of our viewers prone to second hand embarrassment but it's part of desantis story now. florida's governor and his quirks. it's not a crime to be awkward on a campaign trail every one of us has our moments but we're not all running in a mean or vicious manner be but ron desantis is, or will be when he announces his candidacy on twitter, alongside fellow traveler who got 24 hours of instruction on how to appear human elon musk later today. we can last but behind the cringe factors are book bans,

attacks on lgbtq americans, stunts involving flying migrants from the southern border all around. the combination of those two realities makes one thing evident ron desantis whose super pac is called never back down, ron desantis should consider it. what should americans know about ron desantis that people in florida already know? >> well, how much time do we have? the fact that he is doing his announcement with elon musk, strange times that we are living in are just getting stranger. but i'm reminded, nicole of the words of maya angelo. when people show you who they are, believe them. and ron desantis, you've talked

about the culture wars and he really wants us to stay there. his agenda is a culture war agenda. america would be wise to take a look at what has the governor of florida actually done to govern? ? to improve the quality of life for people in his state, for seniors, children, for working families, people who have to go to work every day. in terms of elder care, florida is at the bottom. education florida is at the bottom. we have an emergency affordable housing crisis in florida. the governor advocating against raising the minimum wage which we have not seen in years. if america is interested in supporting someone who wants to represent people because they like people and want to represent all people, they better take a closer look at ron desantis, other than his culture war agenda. >> interestingly, he's even

alienated what used to be the backbone of the republican base, he's at war with rick scott and marco rubio. he's flailing about and cost his state a billion dollar investment and 3000 jobs at disney, how is that going over in florida? >> i served one term in the house with ron desantis. we should all ask, why have several members who also served, republican members, who served in the house with ron desantis decided to endorse the other guy. and you know, as a former police chief, a former crisis negotiator to hear somebody say they never back down, that's not leadership. and there's nothing courageous about that. if you really want to win, if you want to protect human life, the health, safety and well being of the american people because i believe that's what the president's primary

responsible is, you better know and be wise enough to know when to back down. his war with disney, as you know, one of our top employers, millions of people come to the state of florida they're going to go through disney world whether they're on a business trip or personal vacation. where is the probusiness attitude? this war with disney is an embarrassment on our state. we are trying to tell other businesses, look, don't let your opinion of doing business in florida be determined by one person, because walt disney will clearly outlive ron desantis' vicious war with them. it's just ridiculous and looks like he's going to learn the hard way. >> ron desantis had all the early -- you know, early money, early support. he was the sort of person the people projected their hopes of moving past trump onto. ron desantis has had -- and it's

early, it's politics, anything can happen, trump became president for pete's sake. but he's had the worst opening six months as a candidate i think in modern campaign history. we could have made a 40 minute real how awkward he is on the stump and he's announcing on twitter. >> yeah. i was texting with people close to trump this afternoon who said the fact that he's announcing on twitter makes them happy because it does suggest he's avoiding all kinds of tradition media. >> human contact. >> a disaster in terms of running for president in this country. he could have run -- you could see the viable route for ron desantis. he could have run on the he could have run on the handling of covid, a business-fendly state. i remember going down to florida during the election campaign in the summer of the 2020 election campaign and thinking, my god, this is like a different country. things were slightly weird, but

things were open. people were out on the beaches. they were dying all over the country, but there was an argument for him to make that we did what we should have done for covid and whether you agree or not, there was an argument there. . >> he had a lane. >> and potentially on being super pro business. i'm the pro business executive of this important state. and with the rile with disney, he has thrown that away. it's early days. the end of 2007, barack obama was 20 points behind hillary clinton famously. >> but he's squandered what could have been his to the middle by losing -- not just going to war with disney, but going to war and losing. >> it was fairly inevitable he wasn't going to win it. >> michael steele, we'll give you the last word. don't go anywhere. blab give you the last word. don' . t go anywhere. blab

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dude, exactly to that point, you've got a backyard you can play in. katty put her finger on it. you have a story to tell. tell the story from your front porch, from the front porch of what you want america to look like and feel like and be like. but you can't do that when you're blaming gay and lesbian teenagers for their stories. when you're trying to deny black teenagers their story. when you're going to battle with a mouse and losing. so where do you go? elon musk. here's the thing. at the end of the day when you look at how the campaign is shaping itself, these things tell me things about the state of the party. you have nikki haley, who rolls out strong and proud. you have tim scott who says, faith in america. you've got ron desantis saying, don't back down. and donald trump, i'm your

retribution. when you're looking a the that base of the republican party, who does that? what message is going to appeal to who? and that's the problem the republican party has. they want people right now who aren't about we're strong and proud. we have faith in america. we want to build each other up. they want someone to break stuff. and that's not ron desantis. >> it's the retribution guy. thank you all so much for spending time with us today. a very short break for us here. right afterward, we'll have more on the dangerous rise of book bans in florida. don't go anywhere. in florida. don't go anywhere. t me down. even up here! (woman #2) with an unlimited plan that's truly right for me. (woman #3) with verizon's new myplan, i get exactly what i want.

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we braved the belly of the beast. we have learned that quiet isn't always peace. in the norms and notions of what just is isn't always just is. and yet the dawn is ours before we knew it. somehow we do it. somehow we weathered and witnessed a nation that isn't broken, but simply unfinished. >> unbelievable moment. i'm sure everybody remembers watching that. hi, it's 5:00 in washington, d.c. that was 22-year-old amanda

gorman reading her poem at president biden's inauguration. it was a sight to behold. however you want to put it, she was the youngest inaugural poet ever, a woman of color speaking so movingly about national unity two weeks, 14 days after an angry mob stormed the united states capitol. siting that our country at that moment was not broken, it was simply unfinished. the poem was called "the hill we climb." it's the latest flash point in the culture wars in america. access to the printed copy of her poem has been restricted in a school library. in miami-dade because one parent complained about it. a source reported in the miami herald, a parent of two students at the school challenged the poem "the hill we climb" along with four other titles. according to records, she

complained it is not education and linked to hate messages. when asked what do you believe is the function of the material, she said to cause confusion and indoctrinate students. she pointed out pages 12 and 13 in her complaint, ask what exactly are the words on pages 12 and 13? it's the section of the poem we just played for you at the top. a heartbroken gorman put out a statement in response to this news. i'm gutted. i wrote "the hill we climb" so all young people could see themselves in a historical moment. i've received countless letters from children inspired to write their own poems. robbing children chance to find their voices is a violation of their right to free fought and free speech. let's listen to a little more of her powerful words. >> and yes, we are far from polished, far from pristine, but

that doesn't mean we're strive ing to form a union that is perfect. we are striving to forge a union with purpose. to compose a country committed to all cultures, colors, characters, and conditions of man. so we lift our gaze not to what stands between us, but what stands before us. we close the divide because we know to put our future first, we must first put our differences aside. we lay down our arms so we can reach out our arms to one another. we seek harm to none and harmony for all. >> it's perfection. the miami-dade school district is clarifying saying it was not rid of completely, but only moved to the middle school section. to which the florida freedom to read project said, a compromise that sacrifices some student access is still censorship.

the move made possible by the man expected to announce his presidential campaign in an hour, florida governor ron desantis. who in his anti-woke crusade enacted policies targeting curriculums including don't say gay, banning transathletess from sports. and the banning of amanda etc.'s poem from elementary school students a the a florida school is where we begin the hour with former teacher and friend of the program chasten buttigieg. i have been following you from stop to stop on the book tour. this story seems to sit at the intersection not just of the substance of the book, but who you wrote this version for, and what you learned through years a teacher. tail light me how you're feeling about this. >> the number one one thing i'm

feeling is frustration that young people are consistently speaking up, asking adults in power to focus on the real issues. focus on the real problems. and it these people actually cared about protecting children, they would focus on the real problems facing children today. and amanda's poem is so beautiful because it asks us to think about our place in this country ask how we can make it a more perfect union for everyone. what a fantasticless sob to teach our kids to think about who they are as citizens and people. but that's not what these people are focused on. they are focused on stripping the voices of lgbtq people or in this instance, a young woman of color. it is ridiculous that this is what the adults in florida are focused on. it they really, really cared about protecting children, they would stop the nonsense and start focusing on things that even their own voters want them to focus on like gun rights legislation and gun safety.

>> i mean, this story seems to illustrate everything that's broken in all of the their intended consequences on the right, but all of the collateral damage of the tyranny of these politics. this is one parent removing something. it's difficult at this point to explain how important this moment was. especially to the kids who had seen the terrifying images. to see domestic terrorists storm ing the capitol. this poem was almost like a resetting of the national dialogue. things were calm, she was calling for peace and harmony. it seems like exactly what we want the to show our kids. >> absolutely. and the thing about this particular claim is the person didn't even know the author's name.

they just knew this was a poem by a black woman and it should be stripped from the shelves. that poemt has a phenomenal lesson of civility and democracy and community. i don't understand why these people believe these are threatening to the existence of our children. i will always come back as a dad and a teacher to the point if they truly cared about protecting our kids, they would pick up a pen and do something about the fact that no place in america is your child safe when it comes to the threat of gun violence. they are certainly harmed by the existence of guns in this country. as someone who sends his kid to school daily, not a day goes by i don't think about that reality. i'm not worried about what books are on the shelves at school. i'm worried whether or not they are going to come home. if republicans trly believed that their job as a lawmaker is to make people's lives better and safer than they would cut it out with this culture war nonsense and start getting to

action. >> you were also one of the earliest people to speak autoout about the human consequences and the toll of his don't say gay bill. you're now in his state. he's on the precipice from announcing his candidacy for president. what should people know about the impact of his cruel policies? >> here's what i know about presidential politics. when you are getting ready to launch a campaign, your message should be who you're for and what you're for and how you're going to bring people together. how you're going to inspire people to belief in a bigger hearted version of america. everything that we have heard out of the mouth of this man is who he is against and what he is against. if you are not within the small parameters of what he and his team believe are acceptable in

this country, you'll be attacked. but again, it's not about what they are for. it's just about what they are against. specifically with something like don't say gay. that bill was so vague on purpose. it's intended consequence was to threaten people with the idea that they might be litigated against if they mentioned the existence of lgbtq people. now you have people in his state packing up their homes and leaving, businesses canceling contracts. people are not bringing business to the state and are taking their families out of the state. but not everybody has that privileg of getting out of florida. so think about the people who are here on the ground who need help. and again, these people in positions of power aren't focused on helping. and this issue of don't say gay and attacking trans people just worked for them. it did you want require any action.

>> can you hear us? >> i can hear you. i was getting a facetime from home, which is hilarious. >> should we let you go? one more. i have read the original and the younger readers. could it be the target of efforts to limit who can see it? s pshlly for this version, which is for younger audiences. >> i taught middle school. i'm a dad. i wrote a completely age appropriate book. it's just politics. but it's not about the content. i'm hopeful these people can have conversations about existing in a country that might not be ready for you. it's something i felt when i was a younger person growing up in

rural michigan. it's so important we show up for our community. that's why i'm happy to be in florida to meet with people to have this it conversation about a forward-looking progress in this country. >> i want you to be able to facetime the baies before you have to go to your book event. so i'm going to let you go. you go. thank you for being part of this conversation. thank you for starting us off. thank you so much. mya, let me bring you in on this. the chance to play all of amanda's poem was so irresistible. but watching the two chunks, to take it out of the moment in which she delivered it isn't fair to how impactful it really was. the words still just make every hair on my body stand up. but to give that speech at that spot, two weeks after a deadly

insurrection was extraordinary. >> the importance of sharing the actual words from her poetry is an incredible illustration of the fact that this isn't a culture war and this isn't about age-appropriate books. this is an ideological battle of indoctrination. because as you heard and as you noted in the words of amanda gorman's poetry, it's actually a message of unity. it's a message about finding our differences. it's a message about an america that lives up to our ideals. how is that hate? >> it's also saying we're not broken, which was something that a lot of people in journalism and politics weren't automobile to say. she was able to say it. 14 days later.

>> if anything, you might challenge that. maybe we are a little broken. but the point is, so what? we can't have a discussion about being broken? we can't have a discussion about the fact that we have pain? we can't have a discussion about the fact that we have not just a hard history, but a hard country that we're trying to defend in terms of our democracy. this is censorship. but even the most dangerous form. you're actually taking the ability from trained educators, because every school district including in florida had checks and balances on ensuring that there was developmentally appropriate material for children in classrooms. it's creating a problem that didn't exist that needs to be solved by censorship, which it flies in the face of democracy. we should remember, because it's may. and in may in 1933, what was

happening was nazi youth were burning books. lgbtq violence on the rise. is this the country that we are and want to be? can a minority of people dictate what every other child can read, even though trained educators say it's appropriate. >> "washington post" reports 11 have brought about the banning of over 1,000 books. >> it's sadly this is a strategy. it's a funded strategy. it's a training ground that is playing off of and utilizing a fear that doesn't have to exist.

in other words, if we were having the conversation we should have, which is not one that requires agreement, because in a democracy, it's not about agreement. it's about discussion. it's about finding common ground and recognizing and understanding we all want the same things for our kids. we want them to get high-quality education. we want them to have opportunities. ask we want them to be able to be the people they are. and this denies them that every last one. >> let me press you further. the burning of books, as a tool for training or limiting thought, is the history is worldwide and centuries old. why are we so squealish about information and thought.

>> i think it's difficult for folks to come to grips with the fact that we haven't lived up to them. that doesn't mean, and this is the central point of amanda's poetry, it doesn't mean we're bad people. it means we have something to confront. but this desire to say, we're not ignoring our history. we're just not going let you talk about it or read it. but in truth, and this is the important part we have to raise in florida because i was at the new college of florida, which is where they installed ideological trustees, fired a president, fired a librarian, and actually threatened the prospects of faculty in college, young

adults, and it is around academic freedom. so it isn't even just children. it's not actually true. it is about indoctrination and explicitly saying that he wanted to model the new college of florida, a liberal arts education, which has produced democrats and republicans, by the way, like jose diaz-balart is a graduate. this is a college of free thinking ask free education that the governor has said he wants to model a private crist man college in michigan. that's not public. that is religious, but one single explicit religion. none of that is the absence of indoctrination and none of that is just about kids. that's also adults.

so it is much more per vasive than this story even suggests. we should acknowledge it's not just florida. there's 1600 different book titles across this country banned in districts. it can't be a cancer we allow to metastasize. >> we should get some of these titles out. what is it about the poem that offended anyone? >> i think you named it though. amanda gorman is a black woman. so by definition it's something that we should be fearful of if we're not black. it's not even paying attention to the words or the substance of what is in the books. and that's my point. we can't substitute politics for professional educators. >> that's amaing. mya isn't going anywhere. when we come back, remembering the victims of the elementary school pass ker in uvalde and one year later

families are still pleading for change. we'll have that conversation, next. plus the democrat looking to knock ted cruz out of the senate. democrat asks republicans might cheer when that happens. he will be our guest as texas republican leaders try to pull the state further and further to the extreme far right. and later, capitol police officer will be back with us for an encore visit. his quest to hold the insurrectionists accountable took on a deeply personal turn today. he will be here to tell us about it. that's after a quick break. don't go anywhere. quick break don't go anywhere.

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standing there i couldn't help but think that communities all across every part of america and in each place we hear the same message. do something. gr god's sake, please do something. it's time to make our voices heard. but as friends, as neighbors, as parents. as fellow americans. i'm being earnest when i say that. my fellow americans, you almost feel the pain. for we have lost children. we have to do this to save our children. for the nation we love. >> president biden remarks given earlier this afternoon exactly one year since the school shooting in uvalde texas.

the president demanding action from republicans and democrats to ban assault-style weapons torks pass common sense gun safety measures that the majority of all americans support and want desperately. today we remember the 21 lives senselessly lost. killed by an ar-15 rifle during a 77-minute rampage. at the time, texas republicans had already spent weeks and years leading up to the massacre repeatedly loosening gun laws. and in the time since while president biden implemented two dozen executive actions and signed the most significant gun safety legislation in 30 years, a review bhi our friends at axios say that legislators have pass more pro gun bills than safety bills. from that report, of 993

gun-related bills, 56% expanded access to firearms or benefits the firearms industry. by allowing manufacturing in the state or protecting them from liability lawsuits. joining our coverage is the founder of moms against guns. i follow you on twitter. i see your thoughts. but i want to start with the the families of uvalde. some of them grieve privately, but some have shared their grief on social media. and it is a staggering reminder that while the media tends to move on, and come back on the anniversary, for these families, 19 children and 2 teachers, the world stopped one year ago. it hasn't picked up again. the blast radius of the tragedy of the shootings is immense and underreported in america.

>> you're right. i started doing this work in 2012 after the horrific mass school shooting tragedy in sandy hook in connecticut. and really that seemed unfathomable to america at the time. here we are talking about another tragedy that happened a decade later. it is the mass shootings, it is the school shootings, it is also the daily gun violence that kills over 120 people in america and wounds hundreds more. ands a arizona you said, the chaos and the confusion and the irreparable harm that these tragedies wrooef on communities, we can never wrap our minds around it. it's why why i say we are not numb. we are traumatized, whether we have impacted by gun violence or see it on the news day in and day out. we can't continue to look like this as a country.

>> and we have a majority of americans who great for all of the talk. i do tons of coverage about our polarized politics and information vacuums that the right seems to live in. 85% want gun safety legislation. i'm not sure there's another area in american political life where there's so much consensus among the american people. i know you point us to progress and pockets of hope, but why not something big at the federal level? >> we had major legislation passed. the bipartisan safer communities act, it looked at gun violence wholistically. it will save thousands and thousands of lives. it's just one step forward on a much longer path. but i'm going to stare us back to positive progress, which is when i started doing this work a decade ache, a quarter of all democrats in congress had an

a-rating from the nra. today none do. 15 republicans signed on to that federal legislation i just mentioned. we are seeing more republicans, both the right way on this issue, but not enough. and the gun extremists you're talking about, that are passing laws that have been requested by the gun industry, those republicans are killing our kids. gun violence is the leading cause of death among children and teens in this country. but the good news is when you have electoral progress and wins, you can pass sweeping gun reform legislation like we have done in colorado and washington and minnesota and now michigan and on and on. it is not one social media post. it's not one protest. it's not one policy. it's digging in and doing the unglamorous heavy lifting of grass roots activism. you will eventually have change. >> what is the sort of ability

to nationalize any spobs to republican supermajorities in state legislatures? >> change is made a each electoral psych until this country. there has to be consequences for inaction. when the shootings happened in buffalo and in uvalde, mitch mcconnell knew that there were going to be consequences for inaction. he did not whip the votes among republicans out of the goodness of his heart. if he has one. he did it because it was politically pragmatic, and he knew at the ballot box that women, particularly swing voter who is are women, would vote against republicans. we have to continue to do the grass roots organizing on this issue, so we can hold republicans accountable when they don't act. texas is an example of this. instead of passing laws shown to

work and save lives, they keep loosening the gun laws in that state. in fact, gun homicide rates in texas have increased 91% in the last decade. despite millions of gun sales. so i need to understand when are the guns going to make us safer? the answer is never. we need stronger laws that will keep our community safe and we all have to commit to doing this work. i would ask anyone watching us to text the word ready. get involved and get out the vote so that people on both sides of the aisle understand that they have to vote, or as you said, the 90% of americans who the stronger gun laws. you do a very important job of drawing our attention to the fact that the tragedies on this

scale draw our attention because of the scale of trauma and horror and grief. but every single day, americans are killed by gun violence. an increasingly children are killed by guns not properly stored. a 3-year-old or 2-year-old or 6-year-old gets out and tragically often kills another child with. when a crib malfunctions and one child is hurt, the crib is gone. how do we not have basic regulations like what we have for cribs and car seats for guns? >> i don't like the term culture war. i don't believe we're having a culture war. but we are seeing exactly what some on the right in particular are doing to utilize guns as a strategy to talk about our differences. and here's what i mean by that. we know -- shannon laid out so many important facts. in the black community, if you're a young person and you're

black, you are 14 times more likely to be killed by a gun than your white counterparts. a lot of that number is a daily number. that also goes ignored. and the reality is if you talk about the culture of gun ownership, they are different cultures. there was recreation was a big reason why some own guns. some want to hunt and learn to shoot. you had folks owning it for self-defense. and then folks were like the insurrectionists on january 6th. what we have seen between 1998 and 2016 is the folks owning them for recreation has dropped. this is now a culture that is around one self-protection and doesn't keep us safer, but the more the gun violence goes up, the more people think they have to have a gun to be safe, which is not sound lolkic for lawmakers. but at the same time, we have january 6th.

we have the fact that we have seen the arming and the instruction around guns and mass shootings, and we should not lose that hate and violence, we at the leadership conference put out a report for cause for concern. a lot of these mass shootings are also folks that have been indoctrinated by white supremacy. el paso, buffalo, we can't separate the conversation we were having about amanda gorman's poem. we can't separate a conversation we have been trying to have in this country about voing rights and whether it's okay to make it harder for black people, for la tee knows to vote. it's okay to say that somehow the more people have, the more young people have voting. polling places on their campuses that that's a problem. guess who the voters are that are going to show up and say, if you don't keep us safe by getting guns off the streets and out of our schools and keeping

our people safe and making sure we have affordable housing and health care and the things we need, we will vote you out. that is how we face the problem we face today. it is not -- we have 6 in 10 americans who the change. the system has been rigged. and we have to unrig it so we have a functioning democracy. >> that represents what the majority of americans want. shannon, thank you so much for being here for our conversation. we're grateful. when we return, we want to talk about the political change required to change the gun laws in our country. we'll get to ask the congressman about his campaign for senate against one ted cruz. that conversation, next. uz that conversation, next. ♪♪ when you're a small-business owner, your to-do list can be... a lot. ♪♪ [ buttons clicking ] that's why progressive makes it easy to save

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we have been discussing the sad, sad anniversary of the uvalde school shooting. one year ago today, what it will take to enact common sense gun safety laws in you are country. the congressman running for senate against ted cruz, thank you for being here. first, your thoughts on what is really an unbelievable daily traged i think for the people who lost loved ones at uvalde. >> the shooting was an act of mass trauma for parents all across texas. i know when we took our kids in today care, that whole next couple weeks after that, just

had this pit in my stomach. wondering if today could be the wrong day at my kid's school. and i just came off the floor. we had a moment of silence to commemorate the anniversary. we had a moment of silence for the shooting in allen. we're having too many of these moments of silence. too many public places are becoming memorials. we have to change something. >> congressman, i want to share the numbers of americans who want something to change. i don't know that there are many issues where if you go deep and go behind the tabs, there's so much unanimous support for change. background checks for guns, 87% of all americans. this is a fox news poll. enforce existing gun laws, 81% of all americans. change the legal age to 21 to buy guns. require mental health checks, 80% of al americans. flag people who maybe a danger

to themselves, 80% of all themselves. require a 30-day waiting period, 77% of all americans. ban assault weapons, 61% of americans. and super minorities think that more guns in the hands of more americans are the answer. what is the prospect of change, of doing the bidding of 81 to 8 % of all americans? >> i'm proud that the last congress we did pass some federal legislation to try to reduce gun violence. it was difficult to get. it was led by john cornyn, a texas senator, who helped push that through. ted cruz did not support that. there seems to be nothing he is willing to do to end this carnage. we are not more violent than folks around the world. we just have easier access to weapons of war. that's why we are experiencing this. it's a policy decision. so we need to change some of the policymakers who are allowing

this to happen. >> congressman, earlier today the department of homeland security issued a bulletin that is so startling for what it includes. it includes as potential targets for violence and dpesic violent extremism, religious groups, ethnic groups, people of color, communities of color, government installations, it's almost more stunning for who isn't there. what is the collective response, if any, up on capitol hill to that warning today? >> there has not been much of a response. with republicans in control of the house of representatives, we're not seeing any action at all. and that's part of the problem we're seeing here. we're involved in this brinksmanship around the debt ceiling, threatening to economy, unless they get everything they want. certainly not legislating. they are trying to lower the

temperature quite honestly in the country so we don't have, as you said, basically every community or nearly every place where people gather being a potential site for the next attack. >> trump's hand picked fbi director, who was once chris christie's defense attorney, described january 6th as domestic terrorism. and ted cruz agreed with him until he showed up on tucker carlson and did a two-step, a back pea dl, on top of a flip flop. what do you do in a contest, and i know you're somewhat limited the fact that you're doing your day job, but how do you run against someone for whom there's a different answer depending on where he's standing? >> texans know we can't count on ted cruz when he's in a crisis. he will do anything for his own political career. he's only looking out for himself. that's something that even folks who will vote for senator cruz know. he's out for himself.

my story is a very different one. i was raised by a single mother in the community that ooum honored to represent in congress. i made it to where i am because of community groups like the ymca and the people i grew up around. i believe in a very different texas. and one not about political expediency, but about helping people. that's what these jobs are supposed to be about. or do your podcast three times a week, which is something senator cruz does. >> can you promise if there's an i.c.e. emergency you won't go on vacation? >> i can promise you that. during that emergency, we were so busy. there was so much to do. that's one of the reasons why it's funny, but also so callous and arrogant. that he could even imagine leaving our state while folks were literally dying and having to burn wood to stay warm. >> it's just amazing. i'm old enough to have worked on republican politics when he was

coming up. he was not well liked in those circles either. we look forward to watching the contest of ideas between you and ted cruz. congressman, thank you for spending time with us on what i know is a very busy day. we're grateful. >> thank you. when we come back, we were so lucky to get the chance to talk to capitol police officer harry dunn in depth last week. today his fight for accountability that we talked about at length for those who took part and participated in the insurrection continued in a major way. he will be here to explain what happened today, when he joins us after a short break. don't go anywhere. he joins us after a short break. don't go anywhere. for instant relief that lasts up to 12 hours. vicks sinex targets congestion at the source, relieving nasal congestion, and sinus pressure by reducing swelling in the sinuses. try vicks sinex. at t-mobile, your business will save over $1000 bucks. what are you going to do with it? i could use a new sign. with t-mobile for business, save more than $1000 bucks versus verizon. and get the new samsung galaxy s23 plus free with no trade-in required.

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some major news today on the government's case on january 6th. the arkansas man who put his feet on the speaker nancy pelosi's desk during the riot, remember him? he was sentenced to four and a half years in prison for his actions that day. including theft. we were so lucky to have a chance to talk in-depth with capital police officer harry dunn about his book, about mental health, ask how he's looking for accountability still. he's back with us hours later to try to help with the the accountability efforts after giing a victim impact statement earlier today in the seditious conspiracy sentencing hearing for the oath keepers founder and other members of the group. joining us at the table is harry dunn, presidential citizens medal resip yept, and author of

"standing my ground." let me read some of this. i stand here today as a victim of the defendant's actions on january 6th. my pain didn't end on that day. because i have told the truth about what happened, i have had to install security cam are ras around my home. i live in fear for my daughter, my loved ones and myself. my dad feels it's necessary to tell me to be careful ever time we talk on the phone. keep your head on a swivel, he says. when i'm aattempting to live a regular life. i am always hypervigilant about my surroundings. that'shypervigilant about my surroundings. that's the ongoing impact. >> yeah, a lot of people think that it's -- that it just ended that day, and as i said later on in that statement, it's still ongoing. it's not a flash back, it's a constant cycle nonstop of that

day, and that's what people need to realize. and it can't be -- it's not over, because there's no accountability. i wanted to say this before we got started -- my heart goes out to the victims of -- day a year ago. and i know that's been a recurring theme is no accountability, and that's what i'm seeking also is accountability. until we get that, how can you put it behind you? it's just a recurring theme, a nightmare of it playing in your head. >> that's what we talked about last week. it's the nature of trauma that the healing doesn't start i guess until the gaslighting stops. >> never. >> in some corners. >> hasn't shown any signs of letting up, especially around election season. we talked earlier, that the litmus test about what are your thoughts about january 6th?

instead of the actual facts about what happened, it's not letting up. so with the gaslighting and, you know, the triggers, how can we expect to move on and be healed or over it if they're still bringing it up as a nonfactor? >> what is your hope for the sentencing that you read the statement for today? what does accountability in that courtroom look like? >> selfishly, whatever the maximum recommendation is, that's what i want, and selfishly, probably more. but a logical view, i guess -- not an emotional view -- would be whatever it takes to make somebody and them, obviously, not do that action again. that's what accountability looks like to me. it can't happen again. and whether that's 20 years, 100 years, whatever. i don't know, that's not my job, thankfully. the justice department is on it,

and that's their job, so -- >> do you have confidence in them? >> i don't have a choice. that's kind of like, the only bit of hope that i have left. i did my job. so many people have done their job, the media has done their job covering it, and now it's up to the justice department to continue to do their job. sure, i wish the pace was a little faster and, you know -- last night the breaking news about the letter that trump's lawyer sent, and it's all seemed to be related to the documents. which is great. you know, they -- those need to be answered for. that conduct needs to be -- he has to be held accountable for that, but selfishly i'm like, that's cool, but what about january 6th? >> tim hafey who ran the congressional investigation -- i know you were the first witnesses in the congressional select probe, said a circle of evidence exists. they turn it over. and what doj has access to,

tools that they didn't, it's not going to be exculpatory. what do you think is the hold up? >> it's easy to get involved in the infighting with the january 6th committee -- >> government. >> it's like, wait a minute, guys, we all want the same thing here. i don't care who gets credit for it as long as he pays for what he did, and anybody, not just the former president, but anybody responsible, whether that be rudy giuliani or his advisers or -- any single person, anybody. follow the evidence, like merrick garland always says, we're going to follow the facts. those facts have been laid out for the american people pretty clear. i don't know what the holdup -- like i said, i don't want to get too frustrated about it, but i -- we just wait and see. what other choice do we have, right? >> you're always right. what does a day like -- this is a beautiful statement, but it is reliving what has to be one of

the hardest days of your life. what is a day like today like for you? >> it kind of gave me a voice, which is weird because i have been -- haven't stopped talking since it happened, but -- >> we're glad for that. >> i appreciate it. but it gave me a voice to be able to -- it mattered. it wasn't just me out there rambling. this was, like, on the record, which is -- i spoke for -- i got a great text message right before i went on, and a coworker of mine said he just watched our interview that we did on friday, and he was so thankful for me not letting up and speak for them. it was so timely. because sometimes you feel like you're out there by yourself and you're like, does anybody agree with me? >> like spitting in the ocean. >> even if that was the case, i still would. >> me too. we would be there together. >> but i felt vindicated so to speak being able to look them in

their eyes and faces and tell them how i felt about them, the pain and hurt that they've caused not just to me, but to this country, my coworkers, the men and women of the metropolitan police department. one of the court officers that was there, she came up to me afterwards, she was a member of the metropolitan police department january 6th. she left the department and now works for the courts. she's thankful for me. shout-out to the men and women of the metropolitan police department. they're a great group of heros. >> thank you so much for coming here. >> glad to be here. >> thank you, maya, for being here as well. >> one note, we heard from a lot of you after harry was here for that in-depth conversation on friday. he took us to church, to that i remember. if you happened to miss it you don't have to anymore. you can stream it right now on peacock. quick break for us. we'll be right back. quick break for us we'll be right back. want a net't me down. even up here! (woman #2) with an unlimited plan that's truly right for me. (woman #3) with verizon's new myplan, i get exactly what i want.

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. thank you so much from being here during these truly extraordinary times with us. we are truly grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts now. >> thank you nicolle. boy is there a lot happening tonight. a man who can no lodger claim he is not a candidate to answer questions, ron desantis is formally launching his campaign tonight. trump out on the attack. we have that story later in the hour. also something special tonight about billionaire power, fox news, rupert murdoch and what we see as the "succession" effect. how that hbo hit is now not only channelling fox news, but offering a warning for america. i have that special report tonight here. i don't think you'll see it anywhere else. but we begin with the big