supposed to be two weeks at city center for the encores series, and it turned into a broadway run, and then tony nomination, which is really meaningful. as i see it her kid, waitress was an extraordinary adventure for me, but i never advantage myself as a broadway composer. i imagine myself on stage in this way, so to get acknowledged by this community of people that -- just meant more to me than anything in the world. it's unbelievable. i'm so grateful. >> you can listen to the audible original, breakthrough, starting next thursday, june 1st, streaming anywhere that you get your podcasts. sara bareilles, thank you very much. >> that does it for us, have a great rest of your memorial day weekend. ial da weekend. this is the katie phang show, live from miami, florida. we've got lots of news to cover,

and lots of questions to answer, so let's get started. deal or no deal. congress leaves d.c. for the memorial day weekend without reaching a deal to avoid disastrous debt default for the first time in u.s. history, we are live on capitol hill with a new deadline, giving lawmakers a little bit more time to reach an agreement. plus, stumbling start, and unforgettable, maybe forgettable, launch for florida governor ron desantis's presidential campaign rollout on twitter. what we can expect from his campaign, plus the new exclusive nbc news reporting that desantis administration is actually hitting of lobbyists for campaign cash. later, travel at your own risk. the naacp issues a blistering formal travel advisory for the state of florida, saying it's, quote, hostile for black americans. president of the day naacp joins us live to weigh in on this rare rebuke. ahead.

and a good saturday morning to you all, i am katie phang, we're going to start today's show with the nation teetering towards an unprecedented moment in u.s. history. this time next week, we could be on the brink of a catastrophic death default. treasury secretary janet yellen sounding the alarm in a new letter to congressional leadership the u.s. treasury will not have enough money to fulfill the nations obligations. it's a let debt limit is not raised or suspended by june 5th. that's the same day the house gavels back into session. veterans, social security and medicare recipients could all have their critical payments delayed. president biden is at camp david, while negotiators in washington are reportedly inching closer towards an agreement, but remain divided on work requirements for federal aid programs. when asked by reporters and republicans will back down on the issue, chief negotiator congressman garrett graves said,

quote, heck no. nbc capitol hill correspondent, ryan nobles, joins me now live. ryan, good morning. both president biden and his speaker kevin mccarthy saying, they're confident a deal will be done by the new ex-date of june 5th, but what is the latest on negotiations, and frankly, what are the chances the house could be called back from recess? >> katie, it's funny that you mention garrett graves, because about 30 seconds ago, he just walked behind me here outside the house chamber into the house speaker kevin mccarthy's office. it sounds as though, it looks as though, neither go shades are beginning in earnest this morning. grace was on the phone, didn't answer my question as to whether or not they're close, but it does seem like they're inching closer and closer to that potential deal. you're absolutely right that june 5th deadline as opposed to the june 1st deadline just gives them a bit more breathing room to push all the serious parts of these negotiations in order, and then get through the legislative process in an

orderly fashion. just give them time to deal with any potential hiccup that could come over the course of these negotiations. it's important to point out that once the white house and the speaker cut a deal, they, again, have to sell that deal to all 535 members of congress. there is a good chance that won't be an easy process. republicans are going to allow their members 72 hours to review the bills by sex -- and race any concerns, and then of course, they're going to have to pass the senate was at least 60 votes. to answer your question about whether or not they could be brought back up here to vote on it, that's a real possibility. the senate is in session next week, but the house is not. so, if they have a deal and they get that legislative text, and they get through that 72 hours before the recess is of, i would expect them to be called back here to begin the process of voting in time for that next date. >> talk about crossing that finish line by the skin of their teeth. ryan nobles, thank you so much for getting our show started this morning. the gop's 2024 presidential

primary field is getting a bit more crowded. florida governor ron desantis officially launches 2024 campaign on wednesday, with more of a whimper than a bank. and alive, clinch -- announcement that had a fraction of the livestream audience of a giraffe giving birth and an exploding watermelon. ron desantis says he's running for president to, quote, lead our great american come back. the census husband comes two days after -- tim scott announced his presidential run, and both candidates have a long way to go to catch up to former president donald trump. a recent poll has trump leading to census by 31 charts points. 14 points higher compared to a similar poll from two months ago. joining me now for our saturday power political analysts, -- nbc's political analyst, carlos cobiella,'s and fernand amani, democratic pollster and msnbc political analyst. gentlemen, we start the day with us -- because there was a bet that the census wasn't going to

join. carlos, fernando -- you honor the bet. >> i honors a bet. u honor the bei also honor the t desantis was still had a political career if he listened to me, or had the wisdom to announce on the show, katie. there would be five times more people watching their than that debacle on twitter spaces. a horrid debacle start. >> let's not mock the katie phang viewers. cheers to you. >> fernando, i mean i start with you. let's do this. the desantis campaign spent the day after that failed launch trying to woo donors right down the street in downtown, miami. this is -- they're saying it's a 2% contents retweeting desantis and donald trump. they said they're going to focus on positioning the census as a, quote, values candidate over trump who is going to be bogged down by his legal troubles. -- has never cared about donald trump's legal problems, so why does desantis think this will be a winning strategy? >> i just don't think it is, he says he's going to run to the right of trump, easier to out trump trump, it's like saying you're going to out-creep the

ultimate creep in jeffrey epstein. you can't do that, this is trump's party, jumped gop, and trump has made it clear that if you cross the can, you better get the king, or the king will go after you. that's already happening. we see already trump world piling on desantis and it's why he has dropped in the polls, now in the low mid 20s. it can get uglier for desantis in the coming days. >> a little death is africa to hear. i know desantis was on top of the world in his reelection -- >> donald trump though, right? >> no question. but if any of us are starting a presidential campaign today, and we had 100 million dollars in the bank, and we had double digit polling, we were in second place against an incumbent, we would feel pretty happy. look, desantis has a steep hill to climb, but the trump people are worried about him. they attack him relentlessly every day. they know that he's probably the guy, if anyone can catch up to trump, he's probably the guy that can. that's why they only talk about him. they don't talk about temps caught, they don't talk about nikki haley, they don't talk

about anyone else. it's wrong desantis all the time for team trump because they're worried about him. >> but fernand, -- primary and i'm going to be his to lose? you are a pollster, this is what you do. is it too early to be looking at these numbers, we always do, but is it a little premature? >> i don't think so, because right now trump has every -- look for to determine at that leaders intermountain bill. he has total -- everyone who knows who trump is. you can't reinvent trump. >> good or bad. good or vibe. >> he is now and some polls, katie, at 60%. again, as long as trump can maintain that lead, with desantis's strategy here, it's very simple and very clean. it's a last man standing strategy. he's hoping for jack smith or whatever other prosecutors looking at trump to serve those indictments down, put trump in a situation where, legally, he can just no longer continue in this race, and all of a sudden, hey, be the last front runner there with all of his millions of dollars and then tried to make a stranglehold in that nomination. as long as donald trump is in

this to win this, desantis has no chance, in my judgment. i will tragically remind my viewers that you can run for president of the united states having been a indicted -- maybe from prison and makes it hard to do, but carlos, let's talk about something. you are forever -- from the state of florida. you've run campaigns. this new nbc news reporting really alarms me, and it upsets me. the desantis administration, not the campaigners, the staffers on the campaign, the dusts it -- using employees, were people that work for that administration, to text donors, telling them to be a part of a bundling campaign to raise money. what type of ethical concerns would you have if you heard this was going on? >> whether it's legal or not remains to be seen, but it's definitely not a good look. katie, it's further evidence of how politicized everything has become before agency heads were typically career people, people who were just there to make sure the government functions

making sure people get whatever they need from the government. now, they basically become agents a political campaigns. i'm sure someone will file an ethics -- and this will all be looked into. it certainly is not a good look. >> the arnie doesn't escape me, let alone the hypocrisy. the census bemoaning the fact that there's been a weaponization of the doj, fbi, cia, by the biden administration. he's telling his supporters that when he gets into office, one of the first things he will do is kick out chris wray, and he will go after and make sure that those weapons of politicization don't exist. isn't that exactly what he's doing, by trying to use his own administration to raise money for his campaign? >> hypocrisy and shamelessness, those are words that don't apply to ron desantis's or the public -- they laughter the fact that any of us try to point out that duplicity, because they are, by any means necessary party. what happened to the gop, sadly, not the -- still represents a traditional republican party. -- that party has left carlos

curbelo, sadly. now in places the maga party, it's by any means necessary, if we break the law, if we have to be hypocritical. as long as we gain power and hold on to power at whatever cost, that's what they and their voters are behind. that's why they will excuse any fault, overlook any hypocrisy. >> quickly, carlos, i got a minute, we have desantis signing a law, letting him run for president of the united states, and still remain in office as the governor. our state, our state of florida, isn't doing so well under his tenure. does that come back to bite him in the butt? >> -- i don't know how many nine times. they keep going back and forth, back when charlie crist was a republican governor, that law was modified so he can potentially run for bryce -- remember that, that seems like 100 years ago. look, i think, it's upends your perspective, economically, florida is doing well. on a lot of these social issues, a lot of people think, and it's pretty clear, when donald trump was a tracking ron desantis on

abortion, a lot of the social issues, it's clear that florida is in a different place, and maybe isn't as welcoming a place as the chamber of commerce makes it seem. i think desantis is going to focus on his economic record. he's going to talk a lot about the pandemic. he believes he won the pandemic, and certainly donald trump has caused some concerns about the census's pandemic record versus his in a primary. i think you can expect one desantis to focus on a lot of economy, jobs, how much influx the state has received new residents, new capital. that's what he's going to use to deflect attention from some of these other issues that will show that he's out of the mainstream. >> i don't think it'll work. new -- for the katy phang show, who is going to be the nominee for the gop. >> katie, it's donald trump, we all know. >> it's donald trump. >> carlos? >> i will wait to see what happens. >> oh, that's not an answer. >> it depends, if he goes to

jail, it won't be him. if it doesn't go to jail, it probably won't be him. >> shearers's -- this morning, to the saturday power political panel, as always, gentlemen, thank you for joining, carlos covello, and for now them on the. more tributes to pour in for the queen of rock and roll, tina turner. the music icon passed away on wednesday at the age of 83. fans and celebrities paying tribute to the rock and roll hall of fame or, we're calling her powerful voice her signature moves, and also remembering her for empowering survivors of domestic abuse. the most -- electrifying music career that spanned more than five decades. she died in her home near -- switzerland after a long illness. tina turner was simply the best. best. (vo) this is sadie. she's on verizon.

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smoking gun in the investigations into the twice impeached, now indicted, liable for sexual abuse and definition, one term ex president, donald trump. we'll begin with the latest surrounding the new york criminal case. prosecutors now say they have a recording of trump and an unidentified witness, according to a court filing made public yesterday. the filing doesn't identify when the recording was made, or what the conversation is about, but it's yet another example of the trove of evidence and alvin bragg's arsenal. that case is expected to go to trial in march of next year, about halfway through the presidential primaries. and then there was a bombshell from earlier this week. the washington post exclusively reporting about the classified documents found at mar-a-lago, citing people familiar with the matter, the post reports, to trump in police moved boxes the day before fbi agents made a visit to retrieve documents as

a part of a grand jury subpoena. they also tell the post that investigators had viewed that timing as suspicious, and potentially obstruction of justice. so, why does this matter? because as the washington post points out, jack smith's teams have been looking into, quote, distinct episodes of obstructionists conduct. for his part, trump has denied any wrongdoing regarding the storage of classified documents. joining me now is charles coleman, civil rights attorney and msnbc legal analyst. charles, my friend, thanks for joining us. let's start with that washington post reporting on the mar-a-lago classified documents case. at this point, does it even matter what's in those documents? isn't there evidence so strong right now of the obstruction? >> well, katie, the more that we find out about this timeline, the less it matters what is in those documents. we know that donald trump had been giving notice from the national archives, as well as some other federal agencies, law enforcement specifically,

about the need to turn the documents over. so, the actual contents of the documents becomes increasingly irrelevant, when after those documents, there's more and more evidence that donald trump chose to move those documents, even in light of the fact that he knew that people would be coming to get those documents and recover them from mar-a-lago. so, the timeline itself is a real thing that people need to understand. it's the most important thing that jack smith and special counsel is going to be looking at. -- when you add all the nature of the contents, and who was involved in those, that makes it worse. before criminal liability standpoint, you're right. the contents become less and less important the more we focus in on this timeline, because what establishes donald trump's intent. the intent to obstruct justice,. i think what's interesting about this, we all knew going into this, this was the -- but now, as we're looking at this timeline, more definitively, it's very possible we're looking at

multiple -- and that's one of the important things i took from this report from the washington post this week. >> charles, to advance that case along towards the finish line, we learned this week that lawyers for donald trump, they wrote a letter saying that they want to meet with attorney general merrick garland about the handling of classified documents classification. we don't know anything for sure, but it looks like that documents may be coming to an end soon. why do you think trump's lawyers think that merrick garland would take the time to meet with them before an indictment is issued? >> you know, listen, i think that donald trump has a history, along with his legal team, of trying to appeal to the court of public opinion. while i do understand that it's very common that defense attorneys will look to meet with a usa's others members of the doj, it's uncommon, extremely uncommon, that they would look to meet with the attorney general himself. however, is equally uncommon that you would have your client put out the letter from your

attorney to the doj, or true social or any other social media platform. and so, the only thing i can think of in a case like this is, that they know that they're going to get married curling to meet with them. this is a ploy to try to -- look, who are trying to meet with this weaponize the oj and meet with the attorney general and he -- and in some cases, this would put public pressure on him to show up to the meeting. i seriously doubt that, but ultimately, i can't believe that his attorneys really actually think that murray garland is going to take the time and meet with them, under -- the department of justice prosecutes. >> charles, i got less than a minute, let's talk about the manhattan d.a.'s discovery filing that was made public yesterday. what is so important about the fact that there is this recording with the unidentified individual at this time? it could be michael cohen, it could be michael cohen secret recording we all know about, but how does that saying go?

already, there are tapes. it is a tapes carry more substance value -- than a witness giving testimony about what occurred with trump? >> absolutely, katie. i think we are talking about this case, independent evidence, as you know, can cooperate what people are saying in court. it's going to be pretty damning to a defendant. in most cases. i think, in a bigger picture, this is a -- conversation. they're talking about, donald trump has existed in -- the legal troubles that he's had. they had that in rio -- when more evidence like this comes out, the more -- it becomes a very real conversation. these are real things, real evidence, and you've got real people problems. i think, yes, in terms of alvin bragg's case, obviously, this is not good news, but in the larger scope of things, this, for him and all of his acolytes and all his supporters, should only -- donald trump is in serious legal peril. >> charles coleman, as always,

you break it down for us. i appreciate you being here this morning. thank you so much. and later today, the texas state house is expected to vote whether to impeach texas attorney general -- paxton. -- made the extraordinary move to recommend impeachment after learning that paxton had repeatedly broken spate state laws. laws soft -- bribery, and abuse of office. some of the allegations against paxton date back several years. he's also a republican firebrand, and as aligned himself with former president donald trump. he even spoke at the january 6th rally before the attack on the capitol. paxson has tweeted that the allegations against him are false, and are only being used by his political opponents. interestingly, paxton's wife, a two term gop state senator in texas, angela paxton, she could help determine his fate in the state senate as the house decides to impeach him later today. and coming up in the show, travel advisory. after the break, naacp

president, derek johnson, on why the organization is warning black americans to stay away from florida just as the states summer tourism is ramping up. we've got much more as the katie phang show ahead, right here on msnbc. here on msnbc. weeds... they have you surrounded. you're just gonna stand there? or are ya gonna take your lawn back. we're gonna take it back. we're gonna take it back. with scotts turf builder triple action! it gets three jobs done at once - kills weeds. prevents crabgrass. and keeps your lawn growing strong. glorious! -agggghhhhhh! -aaagghhhh. no no no. get a bag of scotts triple action today, it's guaranteed. feed your lawn. feed it. (vo) when it comes to safety, who has more iihs top safety pick plus awards, feed your lawn.

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travel to florida at your own risk. the civil rights group is fighting backs against governor ron desantis is anti-woke vision with a formal travel advisory. the naacp claims the state has become hostile towards african americans, people of color, and lgbtq individuals. as desantis is -- for the beltway, his successive passing -- influence at least 121

different far-right proposals and state legislatures throughout the country, targeting trans children, libraries, educators and fundamental education. meanwhile, what's left of florida's education has become the battleground for basic human rights. more than 170 books about black historical figures and lgbtq themes are under review at schools. students access to an ap course on african american studies was rejected and, when it couldn't get any worse, last week, desantis portable flew on the fire, after signing a bill into law banning diversity, equity and inclusion programs in florida's public colleges and universities. joining me now for more is derrick johnson, president and ceo of the naacp. derek, it's a pleasure to have you on my show. you and i had the privilege of speaking a couple of days ago. -- travel advisory, it's not every day or so, a civil rights group is going to issue a travel advisory. i went back and i look, the naacp has only done eight to

prior times in the history of the organization. so, why a travel advisory versus a formal combination of the policies in florida, and why is it so important to do it now? >> the governor -- is create a very hostile environment for many individuals. considering that he's now seeking to become the president of united states, what he's done in florida could potentially happen in 49 other states. that is not american, it's undemocratic, and we need to heed the wording of -- before it's too late. we cannot stand another four years -- a donald trump president. >> i did read, derek, that part of, if not the biggest genesis of these travel advisory for the naacp is to galvanize voters, to get people to go and make sure we don't have a repeat performance of somebody like ron desantis. the latest census numbers show

that more than 3 million of florida's residents are black, and they make up 13% of the states 14 and a half million registered voters. black people are forming a key part of the democratic electorate, voting overwhelmingly for the parties candidates. do you think this travel advisory is going to provide the necessary movement and education for people to get out and vote? >> people campaign on one platform, but they govern differently. the governor come pain is not as harsh as he's governing. we wake up call for floridians is something that's important, and we need to also give a wake up call to americans across the country. this is not only a black and white issue, this is an issue about individual liberties, and ability to be educated with a level of quality -- about information. this is an individual who seeks to a -- that's may not align with his

belief of what america should be. this is not 1950, this is 2023, and we should be prepared to take out any individual with a mind sets -- . >> desantis has misconstrued, misrepresented the reason behind the eight double acps travel advisory. he's blasting it, calling it a, quote, political stunt. then he touts florida's low crime rates. however, i wanted my viewers to know this as well. nearly 40% of law enforcement agencies across the country, including more than half in florida, they failed to report 2021 crime data because of new methodology. so, knowing the fact that desantis is just going to scoff and say it's political stunt, how is the naacp preparing to move forward after announcing this travel advisory? >> so, much of what he's done has been a political side stunt to elevate his profile and his quest to become president. he is an expert --

on what is, in terms of the travel advisory, it's unique how, every time he speaks, he conflates the issue with something else. this is about the atmosphere, the political landscape of florida, and how is attacking african americans. -- lgbt community. now, how is that equal to crime, i don't know, other than is just another dog whistle approach to equate crime with people of color. we need to move away from that mindset. for the a.w.s. ep, this is about educating the masses, making sure we don't up and african americans and other communities -- preparing for the next election, because we -- therefore we need to work hard now for the upcoming elections and most importantly, make sure that the american public understand the disasters approach he is taking to public policy, to minimize quality education. all of those things are very

important. those are american issues, those are not black issues or latino issues, those are american issues. >> there, we're going to watch this very carefully. i know it's not about the financial impact on the state, but you know what, maybe it will have a profound one that's going to make people pay attention and listen. in the meantime, i thank you, derek johnson, for joining us this morning, and letting our viewers know about the importance of this travel advisory. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> and coming up, money talks or does it? why lawyers for ultra wealthy billionaire and clarence thomas bestie, harlan crow, are refusing to talk to congress, and what lawmakers can do to force accountability for john roberts supreme court. we have much more of the katie phang show ahead, so keep it right here on msnbc. n msnbc. what are you going to do with it? i could use a new sign. woooo! alright... ♪ soundproof windows.

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i'm the sizzle in this promposal. and while romeo over here is trying to look cool, things are about to heat up. darn it, kyle! and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could end up paying for this yourself. so get allstate. on constitutional. that was right wing billionaire and gop megadonor, harlan crow's response to send to judiciary democrats this week. -- crow refused to give the committee information about his relationship with supreme court justice, clarence thomas. now, that romance came under scrutiny last month -- revealing justice thomas had allegedly taken and failed to disclose gifts, including luxury six figure jet setting troops around the world, all paid for by harlan crow's deep pockets. now, for the first time, we're hearing from harlan crow

himself. in a new interview with the atlanta, crow told my next guest, quote, i have never, nor would i ever, think about talking about matters that relate to the judiciary with justice clarence thomas. adding that they, quote, talk about the kind of things friends talk about. joining me now is graham -- staff writer at the atlantic, who interviewed harlan crow about his relationship with justice thomas. graham, thank you so much for being here. i was fascinated by your piece. you know, access to harlan crow is not being given liberally, it's not like he sitting down and talk to the media. so the fact that you got to chance to speak to him is very important. i wanted my viewers to start off by knowing, did harlan crow appear to you to be very forthcoming and very open and transparent about the information he's providing to you. >> yeah, he was mostly transparent. he thinks of clarence thomas as a friend, so they're always going to be intimacies between friends that one doesn't want to talk about, but i asked him pretty directly about all these things, and he feels, rightly

or wrongly that he has nothing to hide. he's clearly not willing to tell anyone, including the night. the relationship they had -- got a sense of what he and clarence thomas were talking about with what they do together, what the nature of their relationship was, which was a friendship, certainly. but a friendship with the supreme court justice is not any friendship, and i think people are rightly considering that something that needs to be scrutinized. >> so, graeme, and that's the point, right. not all of us will be whirling around the supreme court justice as our side kick. but, i'm a little trouble that the official position taken by harlan crow through his lawyers, of course, is that congress doesn't have the ability to ask him questions. he's willing to sit down with you and talk for hours about the nature of the relationship that he has. does it appear to you, though, that harlan crow acknowledge that, fundamentally, there had to be some level of discretion

that's not being exercise here. maybe there needed to be also some more transparency that's on exercise here. >> yeah, he seemed to think that there was something different about being friends with the supreme court justice. he's a real estate developer, you can talk to other people about real say in a way that he couldn't talk to clarence thomas about what he does for a living. he did say there are certain things we never talk about. we talk about things that old guys talk about. they grew up in the same era, they both grew up in the cell, so they talk about, they both like motown, and things like that. they said they would talk about. when it came to matters pertain to the judiciary, an absolute no go zone. so, he understood there are some sets of 70s, he just doesn't seem to understand that those sensitivities, in the eyes of everyone else, are going to be much, much greater than the ones he perceives. because everybody else sees us as a relationship between a guy who has very -- conservative politics and a supreme court justice. when molly is exchanged hands,

when goods and services are exchanging has between two people who are politically engaged and occupy positions of authority like that, people are going to wonder what's going on. >> yeah, but it's not just clarence thomas who's a darling of the right. harlan crow, himself, is kind of a figure, a central figure of the conservative movement. we've all seen that painting that's done with harlan crow, and other, leonard leo for example. there are people that are in rarefied air -- who can influence things with his money. he's done things, so far, as we know, as to by the homework clarence thomas's mother lives. there are certain kind of quid pro quo's here, but it seems like, according to harlan crow, there's no quid, there is no quo, but we're not going to talk about it no matter what. >> yeah, i described him as having -- we need to put that in context, he's very anti trump. he's a person whose politics are probably more like a hair

-- and so, what he sees is a relationship between friends that a billionaire, who's failed to intervene in politics. although he's at the center of all sorts of conservative networks. it's like, i'm not sure what this actually bought me because donald trump is the standard bearer for the party. i don't like that. i also don't like bernie sanders, aoc kind of left. he sees this as a friendship, and one of the last things that's standing in his intervention into politics is -- most of the things are gone, but the friendship still stand. the relationship that he has with thomas, though, as you point out, consisted of actual financial transactions. he bought the house that clarence thomas's mother continues to live in. he gave her what's called a life estate, basically allowed to live there until she dies or no longer wants to live there. that meant writing 130,000 dollar check to clarence thomas.

so, these type of things, these types of transactions are going to be scrutinized. now, for purposes of harlan crow, he says look, i find, i think that clarence thomas is one of the great americans. i think that his story of going from absolute abject poverty to the supreme court is one of the great american success stories, and i want to remember that. so, he says, i want to buy this house that's associated with him in the area where he grew up, and i wanted to eventually become a museum. now, that may very well be exactly the purity of intention that he feels, himself, but from the upside, it's him writing a check to the supreme court justice. >> graham, i'm out of time, i want you to come back because i want to you to ask harlan crow the following question. if he's anti trump and he's and time mcgavock, large thomas is upholding a lot of the trump policies that are coming out of the trump administration, i find it hard to believe that harlan crow is on having a conversation with his bestie of

many decades, when they're at indonesia on the super yacht saying, but clarence, i don't like donald trump and his abortion policies. i find it hard to believe that the chinese walls themselves off from these conversations. graeme, you're gonna have to come back, but i thank you for joining me, and i tell everyone to go and read this it like the piece by graeme. thanks for being here. >> thank you, katie. >> and, up next. family first, a new msnbc documentary explores the personal and practical challenges of being a caregiver for loved ones in the united states. producer, director, msnbc anchor, and my good friend, richard louis, joins us with a closer look after the break. e break. (man) it's pretty simple. i kinda just want things the way i want them. (woman) i want a network that won't let me down. even up here! (woman #2) with an unlimited plan that's truly right for me. (woman #3) with verizon's new myplan, i get exactly what i want.

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whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ richard louis, live in new york city. >> i've been a journalist for 15 years, and then my dad got

diagnosed with alzheimer's. >> where is my son, richard? >> good to see you, as well. >> it was a lonely road, until i found others. the oncologist said that it looked like somebody had taken kate and dipped her and cancer. >> we know, he has a brain injury, the dea actually considers him 350% disabled. >> the reason that i can carry on, it's because of family, community and love. >> a new documentary directed by msnbc's own richard louis tackles a sensitive topic that affects hundreds of millions of americans. those who are living through a mental health challenge, and the loved ones who care for them through it all. the film, unconditional, highlights three different families across the country who are navigating their own mental health journeys well are coming to terms with the struggles of giving a loved one the around the clock care they need to survive. joining me now is director, producer, nbc news anchor,

richard louis, his film unconditional will be airing tonight at 11 pmc's turn on msnbc. i'm also unbelievably proud to call him a very good friend. richard, thank you for being here. this is such a deeply personal subject, millions of family out there can relate to it, including our own. i, like you, lost my father to alzheimer's and dementia. my dad, four years ago, your late father just a couple years ago. this film, it focuses on the caregivers, but it also shows how you became one. why did you think it was so important to share this story? >> katie, thanks for having this conversation, and yeah, you and i talked about this over the years, and ceasing is, when we talk about it, we think that were the only people. you probably thought you were very alone i, thought i was very alone, and i was both taking a mental, physical and as well, financial hit along the way. as i did that, i said, is this really just me, and as i

reached out, that turned into reaching and talking to these other families. many of them, we talked to so different families over the years. so, part of me learning how to be better was by talking with these other families. doing what we do as journalists to figure out, well, what is the experience and how many are there? you just brought that up, the caregiving actions that we're guessing, up to hundred million peoples in america going through this. how come you and i feel alone if there are so many people going through this, right? we're not getting paid, we're not getting trained, but there are so many of us. so that began the journey to say, if we put them up on the big screen at mcc a, the white house, this is the way we can say, this is an important thing in the country. >> richard, there are three families that are featured in the documentary. one family carried -- afghanistan veteran who's suffering from ptsd and a traumatic brain injury. another family assisting in

mental health professionals through terminal cancer, and then obviously, your family's journey. what did you hope to convey with the film, encompassing these particular stories, and maybe not just focusing on just the one joining you are having yourself? >> yeah, and you know this, because all of a sudden, when you talk to someone who's been through the same journey, you have an immediate click. by focusing on the differences of all three of those families, were able to show that we're all very similar. we share more sameness, and all the families, were like, we are family now, all three of us together. the idea behind this three different stories was to also figure out what i was discovering about the journey. what i found is that there's a lot of joy just by difficulty. for instance, when you look at the thomas family, you can see and amazing transformation of shame turning into somebody that wanting to take care of his wife, kate, but didn't know how to. at the end of the film, it took

seven years to finish it, we saw that he was a different person. he was ready to take care of his wife, kate. he was ready to take care of matthew who is five years old. how the rules of all thin each of the families, that was the amazing thing that i was able to both watch, film and ended in -- the two other families, to really understand what i was going to, personally, about my role changing. you know that, as you are a care giver. once a caregiver, always a caregiver, right? you will always have that skill, katie. you will never forget it. it goes with you everywhere, with your show, your ndc, out when you're talking to communities, that experience is right there with you. they were showing me that lesson, and that's why it's so important. >> well, richard lui i'm inviting everybody who's tuning in, and letting everybody else know that they need to tune in and watch this because it is a very personal journey with that

relatability there. we can share that experience with so many countless others that we don't need to go. it helps us. it gives us strength experience to be able to get through it, and most importantly, you and i are on the other side of it, but we continue to remember our loved ones i wanted to for us to get their. thank you so much, richard, for joining us this morning. all of you, please, you can watch richard louis's documentary, unconditional. tonight at 11 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. and i want to thank all of you for joining me this morning, i'll be back here tomorrow morning at 8 am eastern, we're all be joined by poet, ruby core, who is now one of the most -- in the united states. why her book and many others continue to join the list of banned literature. remember to follow us on twitter, instagram and tiktok using the handle at katie phang show. stay tuned, the saturday show with my friend jonathan capehart is coming up next. s coming up next

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president biden and speaker mccarthy get a brief reprieve in the debt ceiling showdown. congressman richie torres will tell us whether a few extra days can help avoid a catastrophic default. 2024, and the republican field from president is getting larger and tougher. dave ehrenberg and read gayle and we'll discuss the newest candidates.