faces, or the ceilings that keep being raised, this true power in continuing to fight. until the day that hollywood and becomes hollywood. >> welcome to a special third hour of a man, i'm michael steele, in for a man muntean. we are tracking major breaking news this hour with msnbc.

president joe biden, house speaker kevin mccarthy, and their negotiators have reached a tentative agreement to raise the debt ceiling. we are learning that house democrats have been invited to a virtual all-member briefing from the white house, set for tomorrow at five p.m. eastern, according to a notice that just went out and has been obtained by nbc news. kevin mccarthy said the text of the agreement will be available to members tomorrow, promising that house republicans that they will have 72 hours to look it over before they vote on. it that vote is tentatively scheduled for wednesday. and breaking just now, two gop sources tell nbc news that conservatives are bulking at the agreement. conservative members of congress and both the house and senate, along with conservative outside groups are plotting ways to gum up passage of the bill, or add amendments to make it more appealing to hard-liners. a source familiar with the talks said, i want to bring in jen psaki, former white house press secretary and host of

inside with jen psaki here on msnbc. she joins us by phone now. jen, what an evening -- >> hi, michael. >> hi, our you? thank you so much. i >> how can these calls always saturday night? >> i know, right this is what we do. so the white house has to be, and i think, at this moment, not pleased, but very comfortable -- >> relieved where things are. can you give us some things, of a, what you are hearing from your white house sources, and, b help frame for our audience how they should be looking at this deal before we see the final ends of it. >> so my former colleagues that i've been speaking with, they do feel relief. they feel they were heading towards this point. for most of the day today, you never know unless a deal is struck that you are actually going to get there.

the challenge, here now, for the white house, and also for speaker mccarthy is getting it over the finish line. while they are relieved, there is work ahead. because they need to get this through the house. and you just noted, michael, there are some hard-line republicans who are not going to accept this deal, it sounds like. at this point. because it does not have enough spending cuts, or because it is not what they thought it could be or should be. there will certainly be democrats, members of the progressive caucus who will not support, or potentially won't support it because of the work requirements. the specific matters are still being reported on. so, if you're in the white house right now, your wiping your brow, you are relieved, but you know there is still a lot of work ahead in a very short timeline to get it done. but the message i think they are going to be conveying to democrats is, this is not all of the things we want. of course not. we don't want to give $10 million back to go after cash trees. we don't want any work

requirements for i -- which is the temporary assistance renewing stanley's front, we understand that the white house would never propose or advocate for, but don't less the person to the nfc of devote a vault, right? we cannot fault because the markets will plummet, retirement savings will go down, and we need to get this done to avoid that. and for that, i think it is going to be the message from them internally, and in this call, as you mentioned, with their markets tomorrow as they are trying to get them close to the finish line. >> jen, you do communications, and you do a dam well. and one of the things for me that has kind of been a little bit of a sticking point is the lack of communication by the administration on this bill. i countries largely seeing republicans over the cameras and microphones, framing this conversation. do you think the white house is going to have to play a little catch up. i get the conversation with the members tomorrow. but then comes tuesday, all

right? we will take a monday because noah's pain attention on monday. it is memorial day. so we are celebrating, but on tuesday, what is the messaging have to be for this white house in front of the american people? >> i don't, know michael, that it is tuesday. i think it is important for people to know and understand that seeing the white house right now, this is not a woman for a messaging strategy. the messaging strategy, quote unquote, in last few weeks is not what any communications or press or messaging expert would ever plan out, right? because they have said very little. this is a negotiation strategy, and a get it done strategy. so in moments like this, when you are in meetings and the chief of staff offers them the white house, if you are running communications, i've done that, you're running the press office, i've also done that. you are actually not necessarily the one in charge. you are trying to get them across the finish line. and what they are planning on is get this across the finish line, let's avoid default, let's prevent peoples retirement savings from

plummeting. and then we can message on it after. that and you may say to me michael that that is too late. it is really not because the poll would be a terrible thing for the white house in the president, obviously, terrible for the country. but also terrible for him as well. that is the bet that they are making at this point. >> so, jen, if you can hang with me a sec, president biden just tweeted a moment ago, i'm going to read the tweet, intimate to get your reaction on the other side. quote, early this evening, speaker mccarthy and i reached a budget agreement, it is an important step forward that we do suspending while protecting critical programs for working people and growing the economy for everyone and. the agreement protects my and congressional democrats key priorities and for -- the agreement represents a compromise that means not everyone gets what they want. that is the responsibility of governing. and disagreement is good news for the american people, because it prevents what could happen, a catastrophic default that would have led to an

economic recession, retirement accounts, devastated, and millions of lost jobs. over the next day, our negotiating teams will finalize legislative text, and the agreement will go to the united states house and senate. i strongly urge both chambers to pass the agreement right away. jen, your reaction, because it sounds like the person was pretty much we were just saying. i would see, michael, that. and they haven't really projecting this, that this, is of, course it's not just things that they want. it's >> this shouldn't be where congress is or where the country is because dozens and dozens of times over the course of time that you have been in politics and i've been in politics, congress, democrats, and republicans that are democratic and republican president have raised the debt limit. including three times under president trump, right? former times under president trump. carter county voted for all three of those times. this should not be a

negotiating thing, anymore. but, at the same time, in the reality we are in because it is such a narrow margin in congress, and the republicans control the house and kevin mccarthy is controlled, in part, by marjorie taylor greene in the right wing of that party. we are where we are, and there are things that are not ideal that president biden, and of course, many, many, if not elevators would want to report. including elie element of work requirement, giving up money that would go after taxes, et cetera. but, in this moment, the voice is so pivotal for the country. and you heard that in tweet, but i don't like everything here, right? i don't like everything here. but it is far worse if we can't avoid default. and that is the message i think that they are going to keep protecting at some point. >> one more point for you, the interesting thing is that you've already reported, as well, the conservatives are agitated by this deal.

and >> for i would see this at a gentle word. >> it's saturday night, right? i've had a couple copy, so i'm just trying. and in the reality of it is that that could be a problem if they find a lane to sort of scuttle this process towards getting this deal done. what should the white house be concerned about it at this stage? was it mostly a kevin mccarthy problem? >> well, it's never one problem, really, because everybody wants to avoid it to fault. and i wouldn't want one to ever go on the same team, whatever that means. but, at this, point they have a deal on principle. they have agreed that they want to move forward with it, so, now what they need to do is kabul enough votes together to do that. they're not gonna get every democrat, and they're not gonna get every republican. so they need this majority to get this path, and a lot of people who are worried about this are old enough to remember, back in 2008 when a car failed

to pass in congress, and that was during the height of the financial crisis. so not that something like that can happen, they are very aware of that, but, now it is now about cobbling together the votes. and yeah, there are all sorts of, not just the objects, but different game playing that can happen over the course of the next several days. there is also a another question, which will probably be poorly in the process to be discussing this early, maybe not, is that what it means for kevin mccarthy. there are members of the democratic party who will be very upset that there are any element of work requirement in here, and there is no question about that. and the president will hear about that, publicly, and privately. . but kevin mccarthy has a different problem, which is that there are some people that think that he should be thrown out of the speakership, attentional. and does that happen in the midst of the process, did that happen after the process? that is a different challenge for him. >> already, msnbc's jen psaki, thank you, so much, for coming on the saturday night, we appreciate it.

so let's bring in the all-star panel, folks, who is going to help us in this hour. kurt bardella, adviser for the dnc and the dccc, my man rick wilson, it's cofounder of the lincoln project, nbc knows, senior executive editor from national security and molly john forest, host of the fast politics podcast and vanity fair special. welcome to all of the, we are gonna do a quick round robin, i want to get each of your assessment on the state of the steel right now, the seemingly has been struck. i will start with you. >> rick, i think you're muted, buddy. graphical biden, greene over the white house, even though the messaging has become kind of tentative the last couple weeks. i think that we are now able to start the capitol coffee death clock. he has pleaded to get a very angry core part of his caucus.

no matter how good it is, it is not going to complete the chaos, costas,, karen, what is your thoughts? >> this is a great deal for the president. let's remember something here. republicans began this negotiation process in 20 22% across the board, cuts on ball spending. the fact that in, this deal, spending is basically going to remain flat for the next two years is a win for democrats, it is a win for the president. with the programs we are concerned about the most being cut, they are protected. in this is so far ahead of what we were back in 2011, which pretty much instituted it ten years of budgeting caps, we are not going to have that problem, we are not 20 that the deal of the debt ceiling yet, until after the presidential election, this land it far better for president biden and i think anybody was forecasting. >> how do you see, it how do you give it a ten? i mean, i don't have anxiety until -- four there is a respect for the

republican party that is, you know, that are really wanting to blow it all off. and you are stealing that already. so i have some worry that that could still happen. but i don't think this is -- look. this is a compromise. so there are going to be people who are going to be unhappy on both sides of this, as jen was talking about earlier. but i do think that largely taking this off the table for the next two years is a win for all of us, because, you, know i do think it's a win for biden. but i think people will be unhappy as well. >> how about you, david? >> i think average americans will be very happy. this could have been a catastrophic recession that appears to have been avoided, we will see what happens. but some of the republicans, and yes, president biden faces reelection. this extends the debt ceiling through after the 2024 election. the biggest threat to him wasn't economic procedure. the economy still is not clear what direction it is going in. place remains a problem.

it is the economy, stupid. so this i think will please most average americans, and out of this, i don't think we will get all of this fighting, back, forth and theatrics, i think it is just a functioning government. >> we will have the table we will set back with current, rick, david, and molly, we are going to do a deeper dive, so stick with me, folks, we will be right back. be right back. ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. what are folks 60 and older up to these days? getting inspired! volunteering! playing pickleba...!

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argument.

>> let's go live to nbc news capitol hill correspondent, julie tsirkin. what is the, latest julie. what do you tell us what's happening up there? >> well look. republicans have told are still on the all-member call that began at around 9:40. i am told mccarthy is taking a lot of questions from members, most of them, i am told, are receiving this warmly. there are some concerns, of, course as we talked about last hour. from those house freedom caucus members, those most fiscally conservative and just, in general, conservative members of mccarthy's conference that he has to appease. look, the bottom line here is that it sounds like the white house really inked out a win here on several key items. for example, they have a two-year spending caps deal in conjunction, with the debt ceiling lift. which essentially is what they

wanted. it goes through the 2024 election, it means spending levels will stay at this year. they will not go lower than that, which is something that mccarthy and republicans wanted in their house passed bill, for example, it would've been done, much of which president biden is running on, mu o changes to k requirements that concern food stamps. but they're also changes that involve medicaid, we are told, from one democratic source. these work requirement changes, mccarthy was touting on the call, saying that this was a win for republicans because he shared that democrats started out with this being a red line, but in all reality, in terms of what we are getting so far, there are some changes to food stamps. this would apply to americans who are under the age of 54 years old. but those changes, according to the agreement, would phase out after 2030. so a lot is still being decided, permeating performance is one issue that democrats and republicans both wanted as part of this bill. i am told that texas has not

yet been written for that. of course, that is a very complicated thing. it is to expedite approval for permitting projects, for new pipelines, and so forth, for republicans, for democrats, of course. they want that to play into more of the clean energy space, so there is not fair how that is going to be finalized. but bottom line, here michael, they do have an agreement in principle. mccarthy, selling this to his members. that is the hard work here. we are told that he wants to hold the vote as soon as wednesday. that means members will have to be back in this building by tuesday. they have these three days to review the text of this bill, if it drops tomorrow, as mccarthy has suggested, that will put a vote right on track for wednesday, maybe even thursday. but this is all boding well for that june 5th deadline that janet yellen said, of, course on the flipside, you have democrats who are also going to have to accept the supreme, and by all accounts, it is looking what we have so far, the white house did hold their line on many of these items. i'm told there will be in all

members call on the democratic side tomorrow at 5:00. that was a notice sent by the white house. so all of these details, again, really just coming in with that call, i'm told, between republicans and republican leadership ongoing. >> all, right nbc's julie tsirkin, thank you very much for your reporting tonight. i really appreciate. it so let's bring back in my panel, kurt bardella, rick wilson, and david roe, and molly john fast. for, you kurt, right out the gate here. obviously, there are a lot of changes that are going to need to come about to get this exactly fitted right for everybody and we just heard that reporting from julie to some of that. what happens if this goes sideways? if, for some reason, the freedom caucus kind of owns the moment and steals this need. how much does this blow back on joe biden, and the least of communication on the front and it has kind of move this

narrative more in the direction with the american people? >> you know, i think, actually, because of this deal coming right now, the expectation game has been well managed. because the ball is really in kevin mccarthy's court now. the pressure is on kevin mccarthy to deliver the votes. if this thing falls apart now, it is going to be because of house republicans. because of maga extremists, successfully holding mccarthy hostage, once again. and they are the ones who will get the blame. we will be done with this, both sides, narrative that each side has something to lose, like this could blow back on the president, no. the president made the deal. the president did what he was elected to do. deliver deals for the american people that protects the most vulnerable among us, if this falls apart, if we default, if the economy craters, kevin mccarthy is now the face of this deal. there is a reason why he was the reason why he was on camera tonight not the president. so this goes down because matt gaetz, and marjorie taylor greene, or warren broke, art or any of those crazy, cuckoo maga

people decide to take the u.s. economy, is because it is one hunted percent going to be at the feet of the republican party, and not the president. >> david, we are beginning to see some of the pieces of the steel coming into focus for us. the two-year spending cap. aspects of it. the changes to the work requirements. yes but those seemingly phasing out by 2030. no impact on medicaid, medicare, social security. so what is your take in terms of the framing that you are hearing so far, the american people should feel pretty good about this deal as well in the final analysis, don't you think? >> i, mean that's my sense. biden's, tweet he talked about both sides not getting what they wanted, and this is governing. so, if mike lee is talked about the senate, doing everything he can to derail whatever deal exists, you know, and there could be progressives who don't want to support this and house

republicans, as kurt was saying. but a default would mean no social security checks going out. it is not just older voters that would be upset, i would be upset about my mother and father not getting their checks. so i think, most americans will support this. i think most americans, again, want to see a functioning government, there is something here for both sides. and they want the country to stabilize. this pandemic was just devastating on so many levels for this country, there's been punishing inflation. if this economy can stabilize and washington function, i think that helps both sides. it definitely helps president biden, who is looking at reelection next year's. >> rick, the interesting thing, but kind of watching mccarthy do the mccarthy thing, which, is the world's collapsing around me, but i am still cool, right? i still have control here. but i wonder, now that we are

getting reporting coming up that the freedom caucus is really agitated about this, senate republicans, as david just noted, in the form of mike -- already trying to make some noise about trying to scuttle this. in the outside groups. the ones that will really weigh in, heavily, on this deal. how precarious is this moment for mccarthy in terms of all that he sacrificed to get to this point? does it leave him much in the van to actually control the outcome here, does it? >> you know, michael, i think that is right. i think he's got a very limited portfolio of tricks left in his book. and one of the things people need to understand is that kevin mccarthy's primary constituents he is -- in california, it is with his friend, his tree fell advisor and lobbyist who brings kevin tens and millions of dollars from private equity money every year for republican campaigns. tens of millions of dollars from wall street, those folks and the lobbying community that

kevin is much more comfortable with than a lunatic caucus of marjorie taylor greene, paul gosar, and et cetera, those people have been beating him over the head, saying you better not crash this economy. this is an absolutely foolish, suicidal game you are playing. but, on the other hand, he knows that matt gaetz and the jobs are going to go out there, and try to blow up the speakership. so kevin understood this as a very existential start to the country, and i think he's going to have it open to most days, but you can negotiate with terrorists. in the anarchists, in the terrace, in the, nihilists who define the majority of the republican caucus today, really don't want this deal to happen. they want, and, look ronna mcdaniel said, she thought that a default would be great for republican candidates. she said it three days ago, it is absolutely most grotesque an unacceptable thing. and mccarthy isn't some pretty water here, as my friend said,

my friend's does go into mccarthy's side of the court. the president has done when he came to do, he negotiated a deal, and now, kevin mccarthy has to either wrangle the insane people, or let speaker marjorie taylor greene takeover, we will see how it goes from there. >> molly, everybody, at this, moment is kind of looking at how mccarthy's sort of dancing with his hard right caucus and the noise that is already beginning to emanate from them about scuttling the steel. m them>> but it is not necessara smooth sale on the left either. there are some issues that the more progressive members of the democratic caucus in the house, and the senate, would like to see protected. they were not very clear on, exactly how much they have to give up at this point, but what kind of noise do you think they can make, very much as we are seeing coming from the right, or will the president be able to hold that line, unlike kevin, who seemingly has put a lot out

to get to this moment. what does it look like for joe biden on his left? >> i think the good news for president biden is that the math on this is very good. if mccarthy presents this the way that the house is, they only have a five vote advantage in the house. and there are 18 republicans in the house who won in biden districts. so you can see that those members of congress will actually not necessarily hurt that, or might hurt them, but they can make the excuse that they aren't, and then, if you get enough of the sort of very moderate, democrats, or even more progressive democrats. there is no evidence that, i mean, look we don't know quite what the work requirements. that is going to be the thing that is going to get a lot of progressives, and a lot of more moderate democrats. as i've said, but i think you have enough of a critical mass of people who do not want the

united states economy to crash into go into default. into possibly go into a recession, but i think that we are going to go for it, and i think, in the senate you have the numbers to. so i think that, really, the question was, there had been this discharge petition and a lot of talk about that, but you couldn't get it on the floor unless mccarthy wanted it on the floor. so i think if mccarthy wants this on the floor, i think there are the numbers to pass. all right, kurt bardella luke within, david rohde, molly john faster. stick with me. we've got more on this tentative debt limit deal right after a quick break. r a quick break. history. finding military information, newspaper articles, how many people were living in the house and where it was, makes me curious and keeps pulling me in and the photos reminding me of what life must have been like for them. finding out new bits of information about the family has been a wonderful experience, it's an important part of understanding who we are.

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(christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. chase for business. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. welcome back to a busy night here in d.c.. let's get right back into our breaking news. president biden, how speaker mccarthy, and negotiators have reached a tentative agreement to raise the nation's debt ceiling. biden released a statement, which he also tweeted, a short time ago. bear with me, i'm going to read

the whole statement for. you quote. earlier this evening, speaker mccarthy and i reached a budget agreement, in principle. it is an important step forward that reduces spending while protecting critical programs for working people and growing the economy for everyone. and, the agreement protects my and congressional democrats key priorities and legislative accomplishments. the agreement represents a compromise, which means not everyone gets what they want. that's the responsibility of governing. this agreement is good news for the american people. it prevents what could have been a catastrophic default and would have led to an economic recession, retirement accounts devastated, and millions of jobs lost. over the next day, our negotiating teams will finalize legislative taxed and the agreement will go to the united states house and senate. i strongly urge both chambers to pass the agreement right away. joining us now by phone, simone sanders townsend.

host of simone on msnbc. simone, what information, new insights, do you have to share with us? >> well, mister chairman, what i can tell you is not only reiterate for folks who may have not heard the conversation last hour that republicans in congress are currently on a call with speaker mccarthy and the leadership of the house. the republican conference walking through mccarthy, again, just verbally what the deal is, in principle. taking questions. it is our understanding. i don't think and that's nbc has anything news. we do not have someone currently on that call. there are other reporters who are hearing from republicans on that call. i've been hearing from democrats who have been hearing from some of their republican colleagues on that call. they have a lot of questions. what i have heard from democratic members of congress, and people who are directly, with direct knowledge of what is in the agreement is this. the democrats memo crack

members of congress are looking forward to the call tomorrow at five him eastern standard time. that call will be later on tomorrow. by the time, it is expected that there will be actual text of the bill. the text is very important because that will be what the house's vote. on the president mccarthy's point, the deal in principle, what we have heard -- tomorrow there will be text hopefully, for all of us to see. the democrats who i have spoken to look forward to seeing that text. for those directly familiar with what is actually being agreed to, they made the underlying points that the work requirements where a red line for the white house. the white house put out that statement yesterday, via andrew bates. white house spokesperson made a forceful take against work acquirement. it is their understanding the work warrants are not a piece of this deal.

what it is is age requirements. and increases the age requirements for snaps, that is food stamps. from 1849. right now that is what it is under the current law. they are going to increase that from 18 to 15 2023. 18 to 52 in 20 -- the next year, 2024. an 18 to 20 -- and then it sunsets. this is important because it means if you are a person who is currently receiving, or who is on snap. perceiving s.n.a.p. benefits. perceiving food stamps. you are not a veteran, on the house, or in foster care -- or were a foster care participant, those age requirements to apply to you. across the board democrats waiting to see what the text of the bill is. they feel pretty good. the last thing i will tell you is this, it seems to me that, all this coming in hauling about work requirements, there are no no work requirements in the bill.

there is reporting from other outlets that members of the freedom caucus have said nothing that we put in that limits the grow act which is a bill the republicans passed in april on party lines out of the house that would raise the debt ceiling but would draft to cut spending, nothing they put in this bill is being requested in this agreement. it seems to me that this is where things would have shaken out without this high stakes back and forth negotiation. i wonder what speaker mccarthy gained from this. except showing that he blocked and then got exactly what he would've gotten had he not put up a fight. i think the white house, looking at it from the white house perspective, they can demonstrate that they are able to negotiate a deal. at the end of the day i am still where i was last hour. it did not have to be this way. i have heard from some democrats that they wished the white house was a little more. forceful they understand that president biden believes --

they want to be quiet in public and do the negotiations and private. they do feel as though the narrative here. yes of bill was reached. but the narrative here the damage that i've been done by some of the rhetoric from some of their republican colleagues. going out and saying things that being counter by the white house, that is significant. >> simone, i have been harping on that point for a long time now. i could not agree more with you and the democrats who have expressed that particular view. the other side of that piece, that is going to be a factor that has to be accounted for, i believe, at some point in this process. once something is officially agreed to. you are going to have to sell it. i think there is going to be a little bit of catching up for the democrats, narrative lee. having said that, are you picking up anything that could

potentially be a hot moment for the progressive members? like we are now realizing for the conservatives on the republican side? again, not seeing the text, the deal points, as you pointed out, to one thing. when the text comes, is there any concern, potentially, that there are some hot pockets or that could be a problem for the administration? >> remember, i have texted everything go member in myself phone. was this really necessary? what do you really think? tell me your thoughts. like the recording members are saying we want to see the text. i think that is very notable. democratic members of the house, even some members of the senate of the democratic caucus came out very forcefully with statements when they thought work requirements were on the table. they heard that president biden seemed open to negotiating work requirements. folks like senator bernie sanders. the current chairman of the

budget committee, senator whitehouse. there were statements from the congressional progressive caucus. congresswoman paul, there were statements from the congressional black caucus. from the chairman, stephen horror per. all those members and more, we are not seeing a lot of statements from the progressives on the democratic side. i think that underscores this point. they want to see what is in the deal text. look, the reality is, frankly, if you want objectively look at this, i think democrats have been quite reasonable throughout this entire debacle, if you will. they didn't have conditions for raising the debt ceiling. they just thought it was time to raise it. we raised it under donald trump three times. let's raise that here under joe biden. it was republicans in the house specifically who said, no, we're not gonna raise this debt ceiling without some conditions. unless there is something absolutely egregious in the tax when we get it tomorrow, i

think that folks should expect there will be very little fanfare from progressives on the specifics of the bill. more likely about the process. they are learning right along with us. >> it does say something, simone, that the democrats are waiting patiently for the text while the republicans are getting exercised by the framework of the deal. that tells you a lot, right there. they haven't seen the tax, they are already losing their mind. msnbc means simone sanders townsend. thank you so much for coming back and taking some time with us. folks, we will be right back with my expert panel for their final thoughts on their tentative deal right after this.

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panel, one last, time for their final thoughts. kurt bardella, rick wilson, david, ruth and molly gianna fast. so let's just end as we began. give us your final thoughts, kurt, let start with you. >> well, i'm going to direct my thoughts here at my fellow democrats and the progressives. listen, this is a good deal. take the win. if you look around and realize that you are yelling just as loudly as matt gaetz, or marjorie taylor greene, or lauren braburn, you need to reassess what you are doing. you do not want to torpedo this deal. this right now is in the lap of democratic republicans, let them fight it out. if you actually want to better

deal in the future, channel your energy, channel your platform, channel your organizing skills to winning elections. increase democrat numbers, you can get whatever teal you want. that is the solution. it is not going to be torpedoing this deal. >> spot on, spot on. molly, how about you? >> i mean, i don't think progressives have the numbers to torpedo this deal. i think there are enough voters. if you can get some republicans, out of this sort of insane caucus. but i also think we just ought not have the body of the deal yet. but i, think ultimately, look, nobody wants to crash the united states economy until now, progressives have been way more reasonable than the far-right, or even the middle right. so i would give them credit where credit is due. >> david how about you, my friend? >> i think the message of the last midtermsh for centri far rt

candidates fare very poorly, so i think, there, four people are going to think twice before they torpedo this package. and i think you will see that. republicans might take that risk, but i think many democrats will back it as well. and again, people want a growing economy, and some stability in the wake of the pandemic. >> rick, how about you. please -- you come at this from a very different perspective given the work that you do to lincoln project. in a moment like this, how do you see the administration explaining it, how do other groups out there explain it. and what is the final take that we should all walk away with? >> the lincoln project, we put on an ad today basically, calling out republicans, cut the crap. stopping economic terrorists, and stop pretending of this is some sort of washington game that isn't going to hurt american manufacturers, american agriculture, american

large and small businesses, the stock portfolio of every retirement account in this country, and folks on social security. so we outlined very clearly what the risk factors of playing games with this war, and i think that, at some point, a few of those 18 republicans who were in biden districts are going to realize that they need to do the right thing for the country. it is going to cause a norm is chaos within the republican party as the qanon caucus and the crazies and when matt gaetz told mccarthy that went were negotiated for leadership, they would become up if you did the debt ceiling bill that would help joe biden. well, here we are going to see if that is true or not. but i predict of the folks who dedicated more details and governance according to that are going to put on their tails pence next week and try to kill the deal first and then kill mccarthy second. >> i gotta go back to court on

this point, because given what you just, said in the face of what was just said, how does that, and the fact that there has not been this forward communication by democrats. on this matter. what do you expect that response to be when this effort gets underway, as rick just laid out. they don't heed his words, and stop being economic terrorists, but in fact, lean into that, what is the counter measure for him democrats at that point, given the delicate balance here in terms of amassing those votes? well, i think the balance here, it is a simple choice, right? competency over chaos. i think that despite the fact that there are some misgivings about what their communication has been like so far, ultimately the devil is in the details. the proof is in the pudding. the president delivered a very good deal for democrats that have but republicans and kevin mccarthy in a very real bind. at this point, maybe, after

having passed a massive infrastructure package. having done the inflation reduction act after having down accomplishment after accomplishment that no one can get done this president and this white house has earned the benefit of the doubt from the members that when they say they are going to protect our institutions, they will actually do that. republicans right now are falling on their own chaos grenade. let them keep doing that. let them fight amongst themselves while the rest of us spend our time moving the ball forward. getting things done for this country. pointing out the fact that it is the republicans who are doubling down on this insane agenda of anti democracy. going after women. going after women's rights. putting forward a white nationalist agenda to undermine the entire fabric of this country. that should be the conversation we should get back to. the only reason we can do that is if we successfully get this budget deal done. >> that is interesting. these are some interesting. times i will read to you as, as we go out, a quote from jim jordan. republican from ohio who says

he still wants to see the final language according to a source on the call. and adding that if i understand, for the first time in u.s. history, we are spending less money than the year before, that seems like a pretty darn good deal to me. there it is. we shall see how this plays out. to my panel i want to give my thanks. kurt bardella requests and molly jong-fast. thank you guys so much for hanging with me this evening. spending your last saturday night of the month with me. you are going to take me to a break right now. we will be right back a little later on folks. when you're a small-business owner, your to-do list can be... a lot. ♪♪ [ buttons clicking ] that's why progressive makes it easy to save with a commercial auto quote online, so you can take on all your other to-dos. already did.

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before we go. the feature documentary, unconditional, is coming up tonight at 11 pam. msnbc's very own richard louis chronicles the uplifting caregiving journeys at three different families, including his own. the film fallout these families as they fight through physical and mental health challenges over the course of several years. >> richard louis live in new york city. i have been a journalist for 15 years. biden got diagnosed with alzheimer's. >> richard. >> good to see you too. >> it was a lonely road until i found others. >> the oncologist said that it looks like someone had taken k in deterring cancer. >> he struggled with brain injury. the va considers him 350%

disabled. >> constant alertness, watchfulness. the inability to sleep. >> sometimes he wakes up crying. >> boom. my mind was a mess. >> in this house we say the word cancer with a little lip and our voice. but he knows that something is not a. amanda >>? pastor louis? >> i'm not ready to be single parent. >> if you recognize me blank ones. >> you only get one of these in a lifetime. >> the reason that i can carry on is because of family, community, and love.

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live, from miami, florida. we've got lots of news to cover, and lots of questions t