>> you ever go to florida? >> i understand, yes i have to go there these days a lot. >> what's going on in florida in terms of the cultural issues, i don't agree with the way they are approaching it. but people who are going to florida, it is not a horrible place, ali. i mean, you don't want to say florida is horrible? >> the restaurant scene is great, but if you are gay, trans or like your freedom with books, or having an abortion, it's actually a horrible place. >> yes, but what i'm saying to you as people are going there, you are getting off the subject. the subject is about taxes. why don't we just raise taxes. by the way -- >> colin, the reason why, hold on, hold on, hold on. let me finish talking about taxes. you said people moved these places because of lower taxes, i don't disagree with you. rich new yorkers actually moved to florida because of taxes. but they're not laterally determinant about why you look in a place. >> look, ali, what you are saying is we could solve this problem, if we raise everybody's taxes, the rich people, the corporations, look.

sometimes, there are provisions in the tax code, carried interest that i have problems with. but part of the reasons -- >> a terrible idea. >> can i finish, ali? can i finish my thought? >> but you are dropping a lot of flags, sir. you all of challenges you're saying things, and let me. >> let me just, you know what. >> you got carried interest. >> i used to be in another place here, can i finish my thought here? that's all i want to do. >> you brought in taxes, sir? you are good at this, you've been a politician. >> ali, i don't think whatever discussion >> i want to discussion, you talk about taxes in texas and florida. >> let me finish! you said, they are horrible places to live, i don't agree with that. this all came about because you said, why are not raising taxes on corporations and on people? and i am saying to you when you

raise taxes too high, you discourage from people from doing what they want to do. a lot of times they will leave to go to a place, where they get a better reward for their hard work. now some corporations are able to take advantage of things like, depreciation, that allows them to invest more. look, the fact is we have this thing called modern monetary theory. this is another theory. now, we have had sky-high inflation because these policies don't work. policies don't work. >> modern monetary theory is not the reason we have inflation. at all. so let's go back, because you around we got a fickle standard, right? you around? and you people said to get off the gold standard, the money will be worth nothing, inflation -- >> inflation took us off, i wasn't. >> governor but -- >> gold standard. >> okay, we got off the gold standard, everybody thought inflation was gonna be sky high because you can't trust with

the value of money is. guess what, that didn't happen. the inflation is high today for very specific reasons that have nothing to do with modern monetary theory. nothing whatsoever. right? why is inflation high in the uk? why is it high in canada? why isn't high another places, it is not modern monetary theory, you know that, sir. >> ali, let me just suggest this to you. larry summers, democrat former secretary of the treasury and a number of other democrats warrant that all of this spending by the federal government costly to inflation. we've inflation this country for basically two reasons. one, because we have been printing money to cover our debt. you have $20 chasing it to a few quotes. there is a second reason, and that is the problems related to supply chains because of covid. but there is no denying that, why do you think the fed is raising interest rates? why do you think they are trying to cut back? because they know that the flow of dollars, too many dollars chasing too few goods, creates inflation. so, look, i am just back to the

fact that, the point i'm trying to make is, are there things that can be done to clean up the tax code, absolutely? are the things that can be done to clean up corporate welfare, i was in the middle of, it of course there are. but at the end of the day, we just don't want the answer to this problem to be to raise everybody's taxes and somehow that will help. >> it is not raising everybody's texas -- >> governor, we're not talking about raising everybody's taxes. >> some people's taxes. >> -- paying no taxes? is that fair to you? >> it depends why, ali, it would depend why that is. in other words, if they've suffered losses because of investments, guess, what they don't pay taxes, okay? if they make investments and they start appreciating their equipment, guess what, they get a tax break. you don't want to take that away. there, people who study the economy that safe, we should take away accelerated depreciation, or amortization. >> i just wanted to say, back to our example, of the working person who has a 401k who

suffered losses because of their investments in the last year. didn't get to write that off. so working people to not get the privileges that companies get in this country? >> but companies are the ones that invest and create the jobs, ali, and let me say -- >> working people do the jobs. working people do the jobs and they pay taxes. >> yeah, so people that create, run companies, and create jobs, they should be rewarded for that, because that is where the people go to work. everything has to be fair. now when i was governor, i cut taxes for people at the top because i knew our income tax was too high. but i also provided tax relief at the bottom, there has to be a sort of equity between the two things. and so, what i would love to see us do tax reform. but we can't even control our spending because we can't get enough people sitting in a room to come up with a commission to decide what is the responsible way to go. >> so if you say that people create jobs -- >> like we're having an economics lesson here today. >> we are, if you say people

who create jobs should be rewarded for that, i agree with that. should people who do the jobs also be rewarded for that? >> sure, they should. >> with the same tax benefits? >> well, like depreciation and amortization, those are apples and oranges, ali, we are not talking about any of that in the same universe here. when it companies able to invest and plan in agreement to create new machinery, they are able to depreciate that. that is good for everybody. that is good for the country, it is good for the workers. >> good for everybody. >> that is how we have economic growth. >> i just wish we could treat people, i just wish we could treat working people as well as we could treat companies, that is all i'm saying. i'm not disagreeing. with you >> so do, i, ali and look. you look at my record, when i was governor, i absolutely did. it remember, i won 86 out of 88 counties. i swept through some of the areas where people were really financially at risk. i was going to be able to go from losing half 1 million jobs

to gain half 1 million jobs. so, no, the point is, and why did i expand medicaid? i expanded medicaid because i said, you know, at the end of the day, when you meet st. peter he is not gonna say did you balance the budget he's gonna ask what you did for the least of those so you always have to keep in mind the idea of what you are doing for those working folks. that is where i come from, my dad carried -- on his back. >> that's why understand its issue, that's why i know this is an argument. i know we have similar places on it. >> it is not an argument, what we really need is we really need consistent lifetime job training. i mean, the key is, with a.i. coming there is a concern about people that are going to lose their jobs or will there be new jobs but what about the transition where you go from when you've lost her job when you get your new job. what is the train involved in that. we need to have lifelong train for people for people to have skills, when they've skills, they get more money. they command more money. that is the marketplace. so there is a whole health care,

for that matter. there is something to just use tremendous concern to me. because people who don't have much money, think where they, are they are in a disadvantage. e >> let's get that commission you are talking about to figure all of these things out, you are absolutely right. i appreciate your time, i always do. not me, but i appreciate you are always prepared to engage in the discussion. and thank, you sir. we appreciate your time. >> all, right allie, thank you very much. >> my pleasure, the republican, former republican governor john kasich of ohio, he was also a congressman in the u.s. house of representatives. he was the chair of the budget committee back in the day from 1995 to 2001. and he is also an msnbc political analyst. all, right we are continuing our breaking news coverage this hour of the deal struck by president biden and republican house speaker kevin mccarthy to raise the debt ceiling. it is a deal in principle that still needs to get through congress, but just in the past few minutes, kevin mccarthy is given a press conference with his top republican negotiators. there is also news from

progressive democrats, so we want to get right to our reporters in washington for the very latest. joining me now is nbc's congressional correspondent, julie tsirkin and white house correspondent monica alba, good morning to both of you. good morning, again, to you, monica. julie, what else do we know about this agreement and how congressional members are reacting to. it >> first speaker mccarthy says he hopes to button-up that deal on a phone call with president biden this afternoon, shortly after he said text will be released, it will be about 150 pages, and he did say to wait until the texas released before buying what his members are really thinking about. because we flow to the members the conservative house freedom caucus, but not only, that senate republicans, just in the last few minutes, senator brand paul tweeting about this, saying that is a fake conservative deal. we also heard from senator lindsey graham, coming from over scenes after just meeting the president zelenskyy, concerned about the defense numbers in this deal. but the top line, here you see on your screen, there is a little bit of discrepancy when it comes to the spending cuts. the white house is saying that

this will keep levels at 2023, meaning this, year what they already had managed to pass in december, whereas republicans are saying that this will bring spending back down to last year's levels. so some of those issues that we will only be able to iron out once we actually see the tax. but we talk through a lot of the elements of this deal. permit, reform something that they were able to button up late last night. but still, a lot more work on that issue to be done. remember, that is the whole approval process for permitting projects for energy projects, clean energy, any thing that you want when it concerns to energy and drilling and so forth, depending on what side you are, and sitting on that side of the argument. but i work requirements, this bill does not make changes to medicaid eligibility. this is the presidents redline, you know his progressive members wanted him to stick to, it it, does, however have some changes to food stamps and snap benefits that will phase out in 2030, who are able-bodied under the age of 54.

that is something we already know progressives are not feeling too happy about. remember, later today at 5:00, while the republican vote counting process is ongoing, democrats will have a chance to speak to the white house officials, including shalanda young, one of the key negotiators in the room this, week to answer questions and to ask questions, concerns, they have that the president and leadership should be nervous about getting their votes for this bill. we know republicans are certainly going to need some of them, because they are not expected to keep all it to 18 -- especially as we continue to get this reaction we have from -- in fact, they did say, one member of republican leadership last night told me that the only thing that democrats and the white house got was a debt ceiling lift. >> julie, thank you for reporting, stay close, obviously. i know you've got other things to, do so we will let you go and come back to you as more news develops. monika, this obviously now means that the conversation

that is happening on your side of pennsylvania avenue from the white house is really important, because most republicans aren't acknowledging, and most of our top two are acknowledging that they are not giving their 218 votes, probably, from republicans. which means that some democrats are going to vote for this thing, and that seems to be depending on how hard president biden and king jeffries can sell this to their garments. >> exactly, that is the mission of begins now, ali. and that is really critical. because once this -- we do expect speaker mccarthy to speak to sometime this afternoon sometime before to preempt to hammer out some of these remaining issues and to really try to make thisy ndshakr the phone on this side. and once that is all done, i think it'll go to both parties who are skeptical and heading into the process, and we've only really seen that harden

today. so for, instance we saw julie there talking about republican concerns about all of this, and the democrats had as well, the progressive process, -- seeing earlier today while the sunday show that she thinks that work requirements that are in this bill currently are, quote, bad policy, and that she said that directly to the president in a phone call last wednesday. so we know the president has been seen engaging with a lot of key stakeholders throughout this process. so the white house is not entirely surprised from that like the party, they kind of expected, this had been in the run-up of a major concern right now. and they are saying, look, we need to reiterate what he said in a statement, compromise equals concessions. it means not everybody is going to be able to get what they want, but they know democratic votes are essential to getting this cast because of the republicans that likely won't support, that speaker mccarthy does not currently have in his conference on board. so doing the math here a little bit is what will be a little

part of the conversation at five piano, and that is why they need to consolidate some support, and keep that coalition together when it comes to democrats, and the president feels that he can do that in the top officials that will be briefing, are going to basically give a message of, we cannot simply except default, so we have to avoid that at all costs. and everything else is, again, a compromise, and there are things in here that the white house is going to argue they fought very hard for, but they are very happy to keep included in this. they always knew at the end of the day that they are going to have more disappointment, but at the end of the, day they think they can keep people. together, remember president biden has been senator for decades before taking office. he knows inside and out, he loves to be a part, of it and i'm told that there were calls that happened all night last, night from the white house, to those key lawmakers, and that they are continuing today. so i think we should expect to continue that reassurance behind the scenes, but it took a while for us to turn that into a coalesce it. >> we will circle to as, well

ali, thank you for reporting on. this nbc's monica alba at the white house. i am joined by the republican congressman dusty johnson of south dakota. he is the vice chair of the problem solvers caucus in the house, he is the chair of the republican main street congress, congressman, good to see, you thank you for on the problem solvers caucus, he played influential role in getting us to where we are. and he may have a very influential role to play over the course of the next few days, because of what we are talking about. there are some members of the republican congress who have said and tweeted that they will not support this bill. they are appear to be some democrats who are still getting more information on that who said they may not support this bill. so again, the 218 votes, you are going to have to be pi partisan one way or the other. >> i think everybody assumed that when the speaker of the house and the speaker kind of deal, of course joe biden is a democrat, they're a lot of folks in the house of the senate who i think understand that this, joe biden was never

going to get everything he wanted. i think republicans did pretty good in the deal, joe biden made a big mistake in refusing to negotiate for 97 days. i think that put him back on his heels. but of course, he is going to be able to russell up a few democratic votes in both chambers for this. i do expect the overwhelming majority of republicans to support the deal, there are not just spending wins for republicans, also as environmentalists siding, citing an american energy. and then the administrative take home. people are not talking about that very much. i think it is one of the biggest parts of the deal. when you've got administration in the future that announces some massive new rules that costs money, i think joe biden's a 600 billion dollars to loan forgiveness giveaway, an administration is not gonna be able to do that in the future without stepping forward the bureaucracy, it is a big win, for republicans. >> let's talk about how you get back to normal. you talk to your colleague, don bacon, earlier.

we talk to dr. kasich about this a few minutes ago. everybody i talk, to every republican and most democrats i talked to will say, in this is a bipartisan view, the budget and appropriations process which was designed for this, the appropriations process, which was named the united states constitution, as a responsibility of congress, is broken. it would be much better to never, again, have this conversation as part of a debt ceiling increase, but to always have it part of a budgetary process. which just doesn't, working, congress anymore. i'm >> one of the best things we could do to try and keep this back to normal is not to have a party when it has got one party control. my colleagues on the other side of the aisle did for two years, when we got the house, the senate, in the white house, not to shove do everything they want. there is something to be said for trying to find some common ground, and all they passed a 1.9 trillion dollar american rescue plan, i asked them how they were going to pay for it, it wasn't a good answer. at 1.5 trillion dollar

inflation reduction, the 1.5 trillion dollar omnibus, all of those were done overwhelmingly with one party votes. and, all the democrats could've increased the debt ceiling at any point there with one party rule, they chose not to impart because they wanted to have republicans stuck with the bill. i think that it was a strategic miscalculation, and if we want to get back to normal, i think we need to have people not try to play that kinds of brigman ship of all this. >> but you did this when you had control of both houses and the presidency, right? even in the trump administration, you ran up huge spending increases that democrats in support, so how is that any different? >> i've never served in congress where republicans had the house in the senate for the white house, but i was around when the debt ceiling was increased under donald trump. i didn't vote for them. of the three times i voted against all of them, because i felt like we didn't get these kind of conservative winds that we needed to get us back on the right path. they were spending deals that

donald trump voted for, which i voted against. this is not partisan exercise this is about how do we stave off the insolvency of this nation. >> we've got some work to do, should be republican or democrat issue, it shouldn't be wanting anybody to go bankrupt. >> is there should be a world, in the spirit of compromise the represented here that you present on the problem solvers caucus, that there could be any talk about anybody other than the least of us paying more doing more, their world in which you can see taxes increased for corporations and some of the people at the highest end of the income scale? >> last year congress, i voted no, but congress increased texas $7 million on american corporations. i know democrats wanted to go back to, that well, yet, again this year. but that was never going to happen. we nailed all the corporate tax rates in this country are about in the middle of the developed world. prior to tax reform, they were

the highest corporate tax rates, effective tax rates in the developed world. we wanted to make sure that we have american competitiveness, tax the rich may look good on big gowns that you wear to the met gala, but the reality is, that we do want to make sure that we can grow this economy, and we want to make sure that we are competitive, globally. >> i don't tend to get invited to the met gala, but if you ever do any to plus, one let me know. let me just ask you about that, because you said something really interesting. effective tax rates. and that is the lie that we let us believe. effective tax rates -- if you and i opened up an auto body shop, loopy really highly taxes. if you are apple, and amazon, and places like that, you don't. so the effective tax rate is a fig leaf. it is not really a true thing. small businesses pay lot of taxes, big businesses don't. >> that is why i used the word effective tax rate. because that talked about what are businesses really paying. it is not the nominal tax rate.

it is -- your >> averaging, outright? so if you're averaging out it, looks pretty. >> people below and pay a lot, and people in the high and don't. >> overwhelming of american corporate corporations pay one that is not that dissimilar from the other, there are some that have massive investments of research and development. we very highly reward research development in this country. that is how they can buy down their tax landing. so you're right, you can always point to one, or two, or three major r&b of vessels that have a lower tax praise. you can change, that i suppose. but the reason you come together in a bipartisan way try to incentivize researching development is that it creates high paying good jobs here in this country, we want to quit the r&d here rather than have a go overseas. >> thank you for being with us, we probably should've lost more of these conversations where we are not about to end into the default. we appreciate your time, sir. >> thanks for having me.

>> republican representative dusty johnson of south dakota, we're gonna take a quick break, we will be right back. take a quick break we will be right back. we will be right back. they got world class bakers to develop their tastiest bread yet. this truly makes the subway series a dream team. you know about that chuck. yeah, i was the bread of that team too. try the subway series menu. their tastiest refresh yet. how to grow delicious herbs: step one: use miracle-gro potting mix. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. staaaaacccceeeyyy! i'm the sizzle in this promposal. and tonight, sparks are gonna fly. kyle? and while romeo over here is trying to look cool, things are about to heat up. uh-oh. darn it, kyle! and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could end up paying for this yourself. sorry mr. sanchez! get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me.

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the texas gop, the state, house on saturday voted to impeach republican texas attorney general ken paxton. temporarily removing him from office on articles including bribery and abuse of office. the vote came just days after a bipartisan house committee led by republicans left on 20 articles of impeachment around your fellow republicans, setting a wide range of conduct that the panel unanimously decided mate panic stun in fit for office. he will now face a trial in the state senate were some of his closest allies, including his wife, who is a senator, will serve as jurors. saturday's vote marks the first instance of an impeachment of a statewide officer since 1917. the final vote was 121 members in favor of impeachment and 23

against, with two upstanding, which is well above the 75 votes necessary for majority. the scandals put moderate publicans against harlem conservatives who continue to back paxton, who was a longtime champion of conservative legal causes that have been inflaming the state's culture wars. paxson has denied all wrongdoing and he is accused the more moderate republican leadership of colluding with democrats to oust him. paxton, who's elected to a third term this last november, has been mired in allegations of corruption and bribery since taking office in 2015. as the impeachment hearing was underway, paxton continued to post a stream of tweets, including screenshots of donald trump's messaging on truth social, praising him during the hearings, state representative charlie garrett revealed that paxton had made several calls to lawmakers threatening them with political consequences if they voted to impeach him. conservatives backing packs didn't question the process,

claiming it was rushed. during a speech on the house floor, democratic state representatives terry canal us strongly condemned those critics. >> i don't know about you, but i knew it was happening, i knew i actually want to sit in the hearing. some members got up here and complained, but they didn't know, perhaps weren't listening, perhaps we're meeting with my lobbyist somewhere. but i sat and watched a hearing, i sat and listened to it. and i and begin to count the felonies. i ran out of fingers and toes. you keep hearing -- why how, and why this time. while there is never a wrong time to do the right thing. >> should be noted, by the, way that canal is his father, who also served in the texas house presented the last articles of impeachment considered back in the texas house in 1917.

don't forget, for more on, this i am joined by michelle garza, a civil rights lawyer who is paxton's democratic opponent in last year's race for the texas attorney general. she is also president of the texas civil rights project. good to see, you again, thank you for being with us. i think we have to separate this. paxton has a very conservative views and very conservative interest, and you ran against him on the basis of that. but paxton has been under investigation since 2015. to suggest this process has been rushed is kind of amazing given who paxton is, and, yet he keeps getting reelected? but >> first of, all thank you for having me on the show, ali. i am the president of the texas civil rights project. we have been working tirelessly to protect voting rights in the state of texas to make sure that we have a just criminal system that we have a humane, immigration system and treat people at the border with respect and dignity.

look, i have been a civil rights attorney for a very long time. not only did i run against ken paxton, but i have experienced his corruption personally. when i was representing young women who needed access to abortion care. he started a sham investigation into the -- to try to intimidate me when i was a court appointed attorney. so, i commend the republicans and the democrats in the house who voted to impeach him and hold him accountable for his criminality and for his corruption. >> what happens now in texas, because everybody has known that paxton has been problematic for a long time kind of wild that a unanimous committee of republican -controlled committee voted unanimously to recommend him for impeachment and then the house overwhelmingly supported that. this is a republican state legislature. what now happens? >> i think, what the legislature has shown, and i

think this is not a partisan issue. this is about accountability and integrity. and they have made the right decision here to try to uphold ken paxton accountable. what we are going to see happen in the coming days and months is we are going to have our governor opposed -- appoint a mid term attorney general, the senate will be responsible for setting the trial, and making sure that that trial goes through. obviously, my call is that we see accountability for paxton and his actions. there are over 20 articles of impeachment, and they include some incredibly egregious things, not only bringing in facts of bribery and corruption, this is a very expensive. article 19 even specifically says that he is unfit to serve for office. so we are going to see the senate to have their trial, and then, hopefully, paxton will see some justice here.

>> i've split that recording and i mention that his father read the first articles about impeachment, i did say 1917, and then instance do the math, and that would've made 160 years old. so it was 1975. not 1917, it's one issue that. now, what happens in the texas senate. to overcome their hyper politicization in putin, or does this now fall under party lines and once again, ken paxton walks away? >> frankly, we are going to have to wait to see. i think the indication that we have here is that, in texas, in a conservative state, we saw 60 republicans in 61 democrats vote for impeachment in the house. i think that there is a clear indication that accountability is coming for ken paxton. >> well, in the meantime what happens as he'd been suspended from work.

does he get to be attorney general, does the acting attorney general after the attorney general at this point. >> that's right. so in the interim, governor abbott will appoint someone to act as attorney general in the interim until the senate sets their trial and then once that happens we will see if he is officially removed from office and when that happens there may be a special election in 2024 depending on the timing of all of this it may extend further than that, but we are just really in a position where we are going to have to wait and see what happens but i think that the american public needs to look at what is happening in texas and see it for what it is. this is about holding a corrupt politician am incre to see this. i know that all of us would be best served with ken paxton out of office.

michelle garcia, think you for joining me, unfortunately, the last time i saw you was in texas, it was at uvalde on the ground so i'm glad, as grim as this is that it is not that. so i appreciate you joining us this morning. we shall garza is the former democratic nominee for texas attorney general, commissioner on the u.s. attorney writes, and the texas committee -- still to come, i'm joined by the house co-chair representative debbie daniel of misogyny who joins me to discuss the latest mandate ceiling deal, more velshi, after the break. after the break. at t-mobile, your business will save over $1000 bucks.

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to the next level! like the #20. the elite chicken and bacon ranch. built with rotisserie-style chicken and double cheese. i love what i'm seeing here. that's some well-coached chicken. you done, peyton? the subway series just keeps gettin' better. when you really need to sleep. the subway series you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. >> joining me now is congresswoman debbie daniel, the congresswoman of michigan. congresswoman, thank you for being with us, it has been a very, very, eventful day and night and several nights. there has been a grim principle between the president and republicans, it has been made very clear to us by republicans that not all of them will vote for the steal. which i think we could have guessed. it is going to need some

democratic support, are you in favor of what you know about this deal, so far? >> ali, i can't say i'm in favor of anything yet. and i think what you have is a great agreement in principle between principles. i've talked to many of my democratic colleagues, they understand, they totally understand that we cannot to fault. and what the implications would be to this country that don't like being held hostage in the doubles in the details, and they want to see the details. and i'm also one of them. i am not -- until i actually see what it does. >> what box you about, this if it? all i know the good part is is that we may avoid a default, and that we should all except to be relatively happy with that is true. but what is the part the troubles you or that you are want to see more details on? >> there was a lot of confusion out there right now. we are being told that spending is kept at the 23 levels. but kevin went to see and make

sure that democrats were nothing, and people trying to make sure the numbers are, the republicans are saying that they are 22 numbers. i am glad that the work requirements were cut back and it doesn't refer to medicaid, but ali, you know that i am someone that spent a lot of time with seniors, on senior care. and helping people with disability. it is not clear what work requirements are going to be here independent at the trial. it is not clear what those are going to, be and quite frankly, my former husband, for those that don't know, and i am not someone that does not believe that it needs to be modernized. but i trust nobody, in the devil is in the details, until i see the permitting language, i will categorically not let his category be taken backwards when it comes to protecting their water, their air, their soil. and what is that about, because you bring this up, and it is really, really, important. it is something that says that when there is a project that involves federal funding, there

is an environmental assessment to determine whether or not that project can be done. for publicans are saying is that they are changing the bar on what needs to be assessed. that something should be able to go forward about the examinations that they otherwise would have. can you argue that the republicans put forward is that they slows down the process to have to have everything looked at from an environmental perspective? >> that's correct, and by the way, i do know what is to be sped up. i come from a business background, and i know that these projects are taking too long, and that we've got to go faster. but growing faster does not mean you cut the legs out under something, that the actual texture is going to really matter. and i will tell you something that really has been annoyed. there is nothing i could do about it, it is not something that any of us should ever not do for this build over. but the fact is that they cut back on money being invested in irs workers. those irs workers were not going after everyday work for men and women, they were going

after the revenue. they were going after the billionaires in the corporations. >> yes, thank you for saying. it >> thank you for saying that. because we know that the irs under collects from people, because they're underfunded understaffed. this was meant to repair, that to say that those people, because the average working stiff can't dodge taxes, it comes off their paycheck, and there are no deductions. >> that is correct, i don't think it's enough to make everyone vote against the bill, the people need to understand, revenue was never on the table for these discussions, i think billionaires should pay their fair share, that donald trump tax cuts incentivized emir incorporations to offshore overseas, i think we should be taking those that upset us, and they flatter if used for that to be on the table. now, look, i understand we cannot default. but i will not be held hostage, and i want to know what i'm voting for, i'm going to look at that text i'm. going to read it before i tell anyone how i am voting. >> congresswoman, thank, you always. for taking time to join us and for having these important conversations. the democratic representative, debbie daniel, on permission.

>> it is election day in turkey, the polls have closed, we are going to head live to the country's capital for the latest on that right for president. it is a rate that has global implications. ations ations break it down candace. just look at the smashed avocado... made with only haas avocado and sea salt. ingredients like these make the subway series elite. that avocado's - got bravado. try the subway series menu. their tastiest refresh yet. (man) what if my type 2 diabetes takes over? (woman)e subway series menu. what if all i do isn't enough? or what if i can do diabetes differently? (avo) now you can with once-weekly mounjaro. mounjaro helps your body regulate blood sugar, and mounjaro can help decrease how much food you eat. 3 out of 4 people reached an a1c of less than 7%. plus people taking mounjaro lost up to 25 pounds.

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the republican party is a story that we have heard before, but this time was actually different. because this time, the cynical, that faith actors were being encouraged, incited, even, by the bad faith actor in chief, donald trump, who did not even pretend that this was not a hostage taking. telling republicans who aren't in explicitly treating him as their cult leader, but if their demands weren't met, they werejo do a default, and quote. which in addition to be dramatically troublesome is just dangerous. as long as donald trump maintains this hold over the republican party, every bit of brinkmanship, every debate, every negotiation in american politics unfolds with more urgency. it is almost impossible to overstate the magnitude of the movement in which we are living, a crossroads in american history, where nothing less than democracy itself is at stake. it is hard to live for so long amid unprecedented events without going numb to the seriousness of each one of

them. but each -- donald trump has made that america. we are not off that cliff yet. we are far from it. from day one of its candidacy in june 2015 when he wrote down that escalator in the lobby of his own hotel in a sequence of self parity that looked like it belonged in a mockumentary to his overt racism and his petty name-calling to his disregard for the law, donald trump was treated for far too long as a sideshow, and we all wore witness to the consequences of underestimating him, which are many and well-documented. but what is not as well appreciated is how much danger we are still in as a country. how much donald trump's vision, what the channel some of the most ruthless, autocrats in modern history has overtaken one of our only two major political parties in this country, and the extent to which trumpism is already showing signs of moving towards independent independently of donald trump himself. what donald trump brought to

the table in 2015, what he executed while in office, what he is still peddling too eager crowds today are the politics of vengeance, of othering, and of retribution. of using the power of the federal government as a weapon. trump's autocratic tendencies, the cost attacks on the press, the persistent stream of lies, the threats, to prosecute anyone he perceives to be his enemy are all straight out of the strongman playbook. it is akin to the rhetoric and behavior of the heads of state of russia's bottom up and north korea's kim jong-un hungary's viktor orban autocrats who have been reviewed by the international community but nonetheless earned occasional praise from donald trump himself autocrats can tolerate power by shutting down any sort of criticism to jeopardize their position. that is the threat that donald trump proposes to democracy, but you don't need to take my word for it. ruth ben-ghiat is professor of history and why you have spent many years studying autocrats

lightly. she is in fact the author of the definitive book about them, strongmen, mussolini to the president. and she had been warning about the spread of autocracy right here at home. i recently spoke with her about the warning signs that the danger would still exist even if donald trump doesn't come back to power. tell me about some of the different ways in which government can bring their power to bear on something they don't like? >> autocrats can be very devious and very inventive when they want to punish their critics. obviously, the most extreme is to physically remove someone, either by having them fall out of a window, which putin does with regularity, or jailing them, so that is one way to silence somebody. >> without doing the things that make like you took democracy away? >> that's right. >> so they use what's called also lawfare, when you weaponize the judiciary in

order to be able to have nuisance suits, lawsuits that financially, and psychologically, exhaust people. >> we are seeing this in our country as well, where trump, who is always use this model of harassing people, he has been involved with thousands of lawsuits, it is very common in other countries before you type someone beyond their financial capabilities and that way get them to think that it is not working to speak out anymore. >> one of the things you told me many, many, times that as people think as long as the vote exists, if your vote, your democracy. but in fact, it is these ways in which justice and liberty and democracy are eroded. there in fact many countries in the world where there is a vote, but the opposition leader can't run. >> yes, and there is a very long, long history of that. and today, you have what's called electoral autocracy, meaning you don't shut down elections, but you gain the field. or you take over offending

media outlets, opposition media outlets, so that the opposition's message can't even reach people. and that happened in hungary before the 2022 elections. so you have the veneer of democracy, but critics and other political political forces other than yours no longer have any impact. and that is the ideal. you still look as though you can say, oh, urban causes it illiberal democracy. but there is nothing democratic about it. >> they're a lot of people in america who think that donald trump is the problem here, and if he doesn't run again, you will see. that there are others who say that people look at the trump playbook and say, i can do this better than he did. what is the general fear here? is it a trump thing of trump isn't here? does this pressure about the weaponization of government to get released a little bit, or do you think of the republicans might pick up on this? >> they already are. and what happens is sad, when somebody like trump comes into

the political system. they change the political culture and they spawn imitators. so rhonda santas, i am going to showcase here, governor of florida, has studied trump very carefully, has learned the lessons of what is appealing to people. he even copies his hand gestures, and he is making florida into a showcase of shutting down critics. he goes after businesses he doesn't, like he even went after the special olympics, he spanned books in schools. all of this is preparing to be scaled up to the national level, and he has learned what is popular with the republican party and he is following it. >> we will continue to watch that, and state media by the way, in turkey, is no stone to report the results for today's important runoff election for president. after the break, we are going to come, back editor, key and find out who is winning. find out who is winning. with two times

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for a minute. polls closed a short time ago for the country's presidential runoff election. it is one of the most consequential elections in years, and it has got global implications. the president, raja erdogan, the authoritarian-ish leader who is been in power for two decades is being challenged by kamal kilicdaroglu, this election comes after two weeks now after neither candidate

received 50% of the votes, although erdogan was very close. joining me now from the turkish capital's matt bradley. and, that we are starting to see results coming, and what we know? >> yeah, that's right, ali. we are starting to see the results, they are trickling in for the result news agency, and what we are seeing is erdogan is quite a bit ahead, i think by over 10%. but that margin is expected to shrink as the evening goes on. as you mentioned, polls have just closed in the last hour or two. but the fact is is that, if the polls are to be believed, if the first round of this elections which happened two weeks ago are believed to be any indicator, then it looks as though erdogan will probably prevail and he probably will end up with another five-year term, book ending is 20 years of controlling this country. and i'm glad that you proceeded this segment with your segment about autocracy, because in many ways, erdogan is the lone star for autocrats throughout the world, with vladimir putin's and the world, these donald trump type figures. he is seen here as a strongman,

and he is basically managed to control a lot of this government. he is transitioned the whole political system during his 20 years in power from a parliamentary prime hysterical system into a presidential system, this is something that his opponent has pledged that he will reverse or rollback. but he has to get in power in order to do that. i have to tell you, that for most of the people here, the big issues are not about lofty concepts of democratic ideals. though that is something for quite a bit of people. this is a bread and butter vote. this is about people voting their pocketbooks, in the big issue for people that i've been speaking to here is inflation. it's got 50% sometimes, but that is the official number. economists say that inflation could be as high as 100 percent. so, for folks here, they are very upset that turkish leader is not going further. i spoke with some people just yesterday. here is what they told me.

more young people like you looking for in this election? >> i want to hear from my friends, they don't like the job salaries, et cetera. and my friends think that they are not going to do well in turkey. and they are looking forward to go to europe and so on. >> he has the only hope for our country. so we know that he is already here 20 years. he is a pro candidate. >> that's like a minute gentleman you just heard, from obviously he is a pro erdogan voter. he thinks that erdogan is the only man who can solve the problems that the other half of the country, those who support his opponents, they blame erdogan for causing all those problems. so yeah, a lot of division here, ali. >> and, matt, the count votes pretty fast here. so we should have a result by tonight? >> we are expected to have it really, any minute now. >> all, right matt, thanks as

always, my friend. matt bradley for us in ankara, the capital of turkey. that does it for, me thank you for watching, catch me here next saturday and sunday morning from 10 am to noon eastern. don't forget, well she is also available as a podcast in which subscribing to free, you would know whether or not i'm wearing of astronaut, stay right where you are, inside with jen psaki begins, right now. >> >> we finally have a deal on the debt limit, but make no mistake, this negotiation was anything but normal. and the next few days could be a bumpy road to get this passed. senator chris murphy is coming up first with the view from congress. president biden's top economic adviser, neil brainer is standing by as well plus in between all of the technical glitches during his ill fated announcement we heard something awfully concerning about the kind of president rhonda sanchez hopes to be. i'll explain that in just a few