a quick reminder, you can watch the katie phang show saturday and sundays right here on msnbc. that does it for me tonight. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i think when you read the "wall street journal," you read the "new york post," you sit back and listen to a lot of economists, they'll say this is the strongest debt ceiling we ever had. >> this is a disaster.

it is an entire capitulation. kevin mccarthy is emasculating himself and the republican majority. >> emasculating. the republican chaos caucus is this mad about the debt deal,ia know president biden got a good result. also tonight, new reporting on the growing bad blood among trump's lawyers, including that one of them may have been misled about where trump was hiding classified documents. and presidential candidate and toy sized mussolini ron desantis unveils his authoritarian manifesto, vowing to destroy leftism and wokism. so, tell us how you're going to do that, ron. we begin tonight with a debt ceiling deal. and the wrath of the pro-default caucus. i'm sure you have heard by now that after marathon talks over the weekend, president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy reached an agreement on a deal to suspend the debt ceiling.

suspend, not raise. that's important, and i'll get back to that in a minute. the house is expected to vote on the bill tomorrow. the house rules committee met today to vote on whether it will make it to the floor. the first procedural hurdle for the deal. but if you want to know whether the deal itself is any good, take a listen to who is mad about it. the far right house freedom caucus. >> this deal fails, fails completely. that's why these members and others will be absolutely opposed to the deal, and we will do everything in our power to stop it. >> be very clear, not one republican should vote for this deal. it is a bad deal. >> in short, tomorrow's bill is a bunch of fake news. >> we're not going to default. they're going to say this. let's call their bluff on it. the best deal is no deal. >> now, it is important to note,

those members of the house freedom caucus were never going to vote for the debt deal. they said so in advance. it doesn't punch poor people in the face enough like their bill. it was ono from the jump. in fact, one of those members, texas' lynching glorifier chip roy, vowed to kill it in the house rules committee, calling it a, quote, turd sandwich. the deal doesn't raise the debt limit by a fixed amount. it suspends it until 2025, meaning the trersy department can borrow whatever it needs to pay our national bills, and in true republican scooby-doo fashion, dan bishop said the quiet part way loud. about that. >> it removes the issue from the national conversation during the presidential election to come. how could you more successfully kneecap any republican president than to take that issue out of his or her hands? >> okay, again, these people said in advance that they

wouldn't vote for any deal. so now that they got the nothing that you're entitled to when you promise not to vote for anything, they're being honest about why. bishop also became the first republican to openly call for speaker mccarthy's job over the agreement. he told politico, the one person motion to vacate should absolutely be on the table to oust mccarthy. it has to happen, he said. that was also always going to happen, after kevin mccarthy sold his soul to the pro-default caucus to get the 15 votes he needed to grasp the speaker's gavel. well, while kevin isn't exactly the brightest light in the candelabra, if he's made this deal with president biden, it stands to reason he's also made a deal with enough republicans and democrats to vote for it and for him in a no-confidence vote. because it's a negotiated deal, not everyone got everything they wanted. but there are a lot of clear wins for president biden.

republicans will call new work requirements a victory, even though work requirements for stamp food aid are currently federal law for people under 50 with no dependents. the deal extends the age from 49 to 54, but veterans and the homeless are exempted from the new work requirements, which the white house says would likely offset the increased age limits leaving the number of adults subject to the work requirements unchanged. republicans are also crowing that the deal cut spending by limiting nondefense spending. but what they actually got is spending that will remain roughly flat for the next two years and they can go home and tout increased defense spending of a whopping $866 billion, which was already president biden's budget request. and republicans can tell their mean spirited little base that they didn't raise the debt limit because suspend means it just went away, like the wind. but cry more republicans because the reality is you didn't get what you wanted but everyone had

to give a little. that's how deals and adulting work. it turns out president biden is really good at this. if you're old enough to remember 2011, the first time republicans used the threat of default to hold our economy hostage under president barack obama and got the u.s. its first credit downgrade in the process, that deal to save us from default was brokered by, drum roll, none other than vice president joe biden. and while then speaker john boehner portrayed it as an own the libs win. joining me is david plouffe, former obama campaign manager and sahil kapur, nbc news senior national political reporter. let's start with what's in this deal. i'm going to put it up. suspends the debt ceiling for two years. it won't be an issue. cap spending for two years at 2023 levels. claws back unspent covid funds, money sitting there gets clawed back. restarts student loan payments,

it cuts the irs' budget and does permit some energy -- some permitting for energy and fully funds veterans medical care. what are democrats and the republicans who actually were in play to vote for this actually saying about this? >> joy, the spending cuts are too modest for some house freedom caucus republicans. this was always going to be the case. they were barely satisfied with a much more aggressive bill that house republicans passed on a party line basis. they were never going to be on board for a compromise. the question for kevin mccarthy for the speaker was can he minimize those losses and get the vast majority of this republican caucus on board. we'll find out what the answer is, but so far so good for him, his leadership team is projecting confidence. a lot of members outside the freedom caucus we spoke to also say they're onboard with this. they're trying to focus on what's in the bill. republicans who are focusing on what's in the bill are more supportive of it, and the house republicans who are focusing on what's not in the bill, all

these steeper cuts that they wanted, are voting against it. we'll see where the numbers break down tomorrow, but we know house democratic leader hakeem jeffries has said he expects 150 republicans to support it, that's two-thirds of the conference. democrats do not want to carry this over the line themselves. they were not in the room for this. they believe it's the job of the house majority to carry it over the line. progressives have also expressed some cerb concerns, but democrats have so much invested in this. they want to prevent a catastrophic default, and politically, they're invested in president biden's success. they need him to be successful in order for themselves to be successful. this bill is in decent shape to pass the house and then it goes to the senate with just about five days before the crucial deadline. >> so these are the members of the rules committee. they're trying to hold it up in the rules committee. thomas massie who has indicated he's going to vote for it, ralph normal, chip roy, the problem

members. any of those members seem like they're going to jump ship and prevent it from getting out of rules? >> right now, the rules committee has nine republicans and four democrats. let's keep the democrats aside and see if seven out of the nine republicans vote for it, that's a majority. thomas massie appears to be a yes. there are six other mccarthy allies whose votes were never in question. this bill is in good shape to get out of the rules committee, whether or not democrats vote for it. the tradition around here is that typically the majority party has to carry these procedural votes in committee, so even though a lot of democrats are going to vote for it on the floor of the house, some of them might vote against the procedural rule to go forward. chip roy and ralph norman are also on the rules committee. they are very critical of this bill. they can vote against it and it still would have the votes to pass on republican strength. >> yeah, and you know what, i'm going to say so what, as i come over to you. if you literally say i will not vote for anything, you're iced

out of the conversation. that was a dumb strategy to begin with. they sort of have it both ways. nancy mays, she said she doesn't like the vote, she's not going to vote for it. she says i'm voting no on the debt ceiling debacle because playing the d.c. game isn't worth selling out our kids and grandkids. so let's just say, let's just say she's right. let's pretend, you know biden, so you know he can find his pants. let's say he didn't and he's pantsless in the white house, doesn't know where they're at, he still beat them. what does that say about them? if they believe that he is mentally incontinent but he's still beating them at this game, that means to me that they are completely irrelevant and they don't know what they're doing. they're literally insulting themselves trying to insult him. he beat them again. your thoughts, david plouffe. >> well, they're just not serious about governing, moe of them. and listen, biden, i was in the

rooms with him in 2011 when he was talking to mcconnell and boehner and democrats because we got very close to default back then. i think, listen, this is really not on the level. so the people who are criticizing, were never going to vote for it. this is not the type of thing that will get 300 votes. they'll get 218, 222. mccarthy and jefferies probably have this wired. and at the end of the day, the big thing, the specifics matter. the big thing is the country is not going to default. which is most importantly from an economic standpoint, this is already a weak economy and we could head into a severe depression if not a recession, and house republicans have a narrow majority. i'm sure most of the vulnerable republicans in the house did not want default. obviously, the white house doesn't want default. senate, you know, members who are in tough races don't want default. the big thing to me is the substance before the politics.

thas what scared me all along, there's too many republicans who believe default, they don't believe it's a default, it's not real, it's fake, it's like a government shutdown, and of course, those two things could not be further from each other. so the good news is now, of course, we're going to have this debate again in '25 and '27, and at some point, we have to stop having this ridiculous debate and handle it like every american family or business is, we pay the bills we rack up. but i think that's where we're heading. i think biden, listen, i think he knew that this economy could not withstand a shock like a default, even if it was a temporary one, and he had to make some concessions to make sure that didn't happen. i think they were smart concessions. he showed he's a master of the inside game. >> i have to say, i disagree with the idea of negotiating with them at all. because biden when he said i think he was absolutely right. the debt limit and the budget are two very separate things. and i don't think it should be up for a debate at all. but if someone is going to go in

and play this game, biden is the most underestimated politician in washington. he's been doing this since he was 29 years old. he knows what he's doing. i think people underestimate him. there is reporting in politico that centrist dems have already plotted and have already planned to back mccarthy if there's a no-confidence vote. that is already in place. these screaming mimis can say whatever they want. mccarthy is going to survive this. the, as you said, the economy is going to survive this. david, isn't the most important thing here that republicans signaled, including the head of the rnc, they would like a default and the catastrophic recession that would follow because they think it would help them politically in 2024? but somebody like thomas massie can't afford that. so in the end, sanity ruling, it is a win for biden. i don't see how you play it any other way or read it any other way. >> well, first thing, it's a win for the country. joe biden still believes in that, and also i know it's not in style these days but he

believes he's there to govern, not just engage in political positioning. so you know, he with kevin mccarthy prevented the worse. this economy is not that strong as it is, and it could not with stand this kind of shock. the reason i think joe biden is so successful in these moments is one, he's a good listener. he actually listens to people. he'll trade ideas and paper and numbers back and forth. i think people understand they can trust him, republicans and democrats. and he's very focused on what are we actually trying to do here. knowing that he's going to get some criticism, as he is. but you have to understand what is your principle, it's very frustrating that he had to negotiate, but that's the world we live in. there's a lot of people in the other party who would gladly drive this economy completely off the cliff, even though it would hurt, to your point, some more vulnerable house republicans. but they're appealing to fox news, to their loudest voices who never want to work with a democrat on anything, who don't believe in reality, who don't

believe in fox. they don't even understand what default means. you know, willful ignorance. again, i think biden shows again he puts the country first, he puts the economy first, but he has real skill in this. >> i'm going to read to you what joe neguse from colorado, he said the following. he said the president put forward a budget months ago. do you know when the president submitted his budget, he said i don't remember, march 9th, february 1st. and you know, when they put a budget together? they didn't. literally, the only person that was actually doing serious governing was joe biden, and i have to give kevin mccarthy credit. he actually came to the table. last question to you, sahil. very quickly, this goes through without a hitch, right? the vote tomorrow? that's the thinking. >> it is likely to pass the house rules committee today, and yes, the expectation unless something -- unless the center suddenly falls out in the republican conference, it is likely to pass the house of

representatives and that vote is expected tomorrow, joy. i do think that 2011 analogy is significant here, and i think david will remember this. that was a much, much bigger deal. $2 trillion in cuts that ultimately nobody really wanted and they undid them. this is a more modest deal at this point. that's president biden's off ramp. he says this is not a debt limit negotiation. to him, this was a budget negotiation. something that had to happen anyway. if you look at this deal, it's hard to see this other than what would have been a normal budget negotiation. >> meanwhile, the people screaming about it were never going to vote for it. they were never seriously negotiating at all, were not in the room at all, and now they're going to go scream on tv and fox news because that in their mind is their job, to yell and scream on conservative media, not to actually govern. hire people for these jobs that govern for you, not who scream on television. david plouffe and sahil kapur, thank you. up next on "the reidout," new reporting on trump's hoard of classified documents raises

new questions about where they were stashed and why trump took them in the first place. "the reidout" continues after this. to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. this is our top of the line hearing aid. this is eargo and they're virtually invisible. they come with lifetime support, available at retail, and about half the price of those. we have a retail version, too. this is a fraction of the cost of other models. how did you manage that? we stripped out most of the tech and support. can i see those? sure. wow.

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when fbi agents showed up at mar-a-lago last june in response to a grand jury subpoena, the agents were given 38 classified documents and a signed statement that a, quote, diligent search was conducted and that all classified documents that donald trump took from the white house had been turned over.

that turned out to be far from the truth. and the fbi returned just two months later with a warrant and retrieved more than 100 additional classified documents. some of the most highly classified items were found inside trump's personal office. new reporting from the guardian indicates that trump lawyer evan corcoran who conducted the initial diligent search told the federal grand jury that he had actually been told to steer clear of trump's office and to only search a storage room, according to two people familiar with the matter. the guardian adds that it was not clear who waved corcoran off from searching elsewhere at mar-a-lago, trump himself or trump employees. but it suggests corcoran was materially misled. the special counsel jack smith examines where the incomplete search was actually a ploy by trump to retain classified documents. it was just a few months ago that corcoran testified in front of the federal grand jury investigating all of this under a court order.

the guardian also reports that according to its own notes that were shared with the grand jury, corcoran warned trump that he could not keep any classified documents after he was subpoenaed for their return. joining me now is andrew weissmann, msnbc legal analyst, former fbi general counsel and former senior member of the mueller probe. let's start with this, because that says obstruction to me. that someone is telling evan corcoran, don't look anywhere but just in this storehouse. so that feels like an obstruction thing. explain to us for those who don't know, how can somebody's lawyer testify to those things in court about their own client? >> sure. well, you're absolutely right that this does smell a lot like obstruction. the reason that the lawyer can testify is because the then chief judge in d.c., washington, d.c., ruled in favor of the

government with respect to the crime fraud exception. and that is really -- it's not that hard to understand. what it basically says if you're a client and you try to use your lawyer to commit a crime, then you can't also say there's attorney/client privilege. so judge pierce through that found by a preponderance of the evidence, more likely than not, that a crime had been committed. so that's why you have mr. corcoran being able to testify and his notes being required to be turned over. and i think the one way to think about what is i think potentially quite explosive testimony is basically tampering with a crime scene. imagine after the police come and put tape around a particular location, donald trump or somebody took the smoking gun out of the crime scene and said, oh, police, come look at the crime scene. but they actually had removed the evidence. and that is clearly what jack smith is investigating.

and the big open issue in the reporting from the guardian is who told mr. corcoran that he should only look in the storage locker. and that's where it is just beyond the pale to me that somebody who used to be a federal prosecutor would take that from some underling, knowing that your client is donald trump, knowing that he is truth challenged, you would really want to hear that from somebody quite reputable, meaning in terms of somebody with first-hand knowledge before you would make a representation to the government that you had done as you pointed out a diligent search. >> and mr. nouda, ralph nouda, trump's valet, who might have been moving boxes at some point before this search. speaking of lawyers, i want to read you my favorite line from this daily beast reporting about all of the lawyers who are now

apparently at loggerheads with each other, wondering if any of them are snitches. maga means making attorneys get attorneys and now apparently they're fighting. apparently the lawyer who the other lawyers distru the most is boris epshteyn. folks will remember him from frequently appearing on msnbc sometimes opposite myself, and here is the quote, boris pissed off all the florida lawyers. people are dropping like flies. everybody hates him. he's a toxic loser, a complete loser hao can barely contain the anger while discussing the matter. he has daddy issues and trump is his daddy. that sounds to me that there's at least one lawyer, he's technically a lawyer, who seems to guard trump from his own lawyers. have you ever heard of anything like that? >> well, you know, to me when i read that reporting, it reminded me of the way donald trump ran the executive branch.

in other words, think about the number of people who were fired or resigned and all of the infighting in his own administration, where we went through such an array of people. so clearly, he is just not good at building a loyal team. and my word at this point, that's exactly what he needs. when you are, you know, in a situation like this where you could be facing two, three, four indictments, the lawyers have to be working as a well oiled machine. and unfortunately, for donald trump, and maybe fortunately for those of us who think that accountability has been too long in coming, he is not capable of building that kind of sort of loyalty where people work well together and are communicating well together. and having been on a lot of high profile cases, it is necessary to have complete trust and faith in your colleagues because that's the only way to work on a case like that. >> particularly when there are

multiple potential indictments going on. i mean, in new york, you now have tapes in that case. you also have the attorney general's case in new york. he's got so many cases that his lawyers aren't working together and he's an awful client, it's not looking good. andrew weissmann, that's my legal term, not looking good. andrew, thank you. as always. >> still ahead, just another holiday weekend in america. packed with mass shootings. deadly shootouts and accidental shootings. just the totally normal activities of our well regulated militia. we'll be right back.

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narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. because of the stupefying number of guns we have in this country, more than 400 million in civilian hands, americans are at risk of being shot, pretty much everywhere we go. and you can now add the beach to the list. with nine people wounded last night, including a 1-year-old, when a fight broke out on a crowded beach boardwalk in hollywood, florida. it's a terrifying scene to watch, with video showing beach patrons running for their lives. but that's the way we live now. always having to be prepared to run for our lives. that was just one of many shootings across the country this memorial day weekend, leaving at least 16 people dead and dozens injured.

that's not even worse than normal with the u.s. averaging about 57 gun related homicides per day. in addition to the florida shooting we saw many arguments this weekend, including in baltimore, in a restaurant in california, between rival motorcycle gangs in new mexico, and a gas station owner who shot and killed a 14-year-old boy who he incorrectly thought was trying to steal a bottle of water. last week in charlotte, an argument between a bus driver and a passenger turned into a literal shootout. people are dying in accidental shootouts too including two incidents that killed toddlers in florida. this is how we live now and how we die. yet there are people who think more guns is the answer. joining me now is angela zuballa, executive director of moms demand action, the grassroots arm of every town for gun safety. this is ridiculous. 360 plus shootings just in the last 72 hours. 263 mass shootings so far in 2023. this is an insane way to live.

>> this is absolutely insane. you just gave that number. how many days are in the year? 365. we have more mass shootings than days in the year so far. that doesn't even tally our count of daily gun violence that doesn't often make the news. this shouldn't be normal. it's not inevitable, but it's infuriating. i will saw what we're seeing are these extremist lawmakers that are beholden to a gun lobby doing the same vicious cycle. we hear about them loosening gun laws and then there's a tragedy, and then we hear empty thoughts and prayers, and we're back again to square one. but i will say, joy, there is lots of work being done across the country, and this is why elections matter, because when you elect gun sense champions we can see progress. we see that happening across many states in the country now. >> guns are now the leading cause of death for children age 1 to 18. that's shocking. 19%. 1 in 5 children who die in this country and don't get to grow up, they die by guns. the types of gun deaths in this

country, suicides, 54% are suicides. 43% are murder 3% are accidents and other things. yet there's no solution other than more guns. let's do florida. hollywood, florida, i lived near there for a long time, in south florida. that's a vacation destination. is what's going to change this to finally see european and other international visitors stop coming here? because i don't see how anyone in europe, anyone overseas could possibly want to vacation in florida or any other particularly red state, but in this country, because you could get shot. that's not true in italy or france or england. >> our peer nations, we are the ones with this problem. oftentimes we'll hear things like mental health. we're not the only country that faces this, but this is a uniquely american problem. a rising number of americans see this as a public health crisis that needs to be addressed. that's why we're going to continue to roll up our sleeves and meet you at ballot boxes and meet you at state houses because

we know that strong gun laws save lives. >> you know, the thing is that we're typically, we typically, and we call on you all to talk about mass shootings. at this point because so many people have guns, every dispute that would normally be a fist fight or even a knife fight or even a slap fight, it becomes a gun fight. we're talking about a guy who wanted to get off on a different stop on a bus and the driver getting in a shootout because they have guns. we're talking about people getting in an altercation that would have been verbal in hollywood beach and then they have guns so they start shooting. people are using guns as a substitute for even arguing. that's how rampant it is. what do we do about that? >> look, the unfettered access to guns is gun lobby and extremist lawmakers that are beholden to them. the way we do this is pass strong gun laws. this is really bleak, we were talking about this before we went on, but there's a lot of work being done across many states where we have gun sense trifectas and gun sense champions.

michigan, maryland, illinois, colorado. the list goes on. minnesota. so we're going to continue to do that. again, this is why elections matter. this is why you have to elect people that are going to have the best interests of the american people. they want strong gun laws. >> are we going to have to go the level of australia that did a massive assault weapons ban and buy back, or a big protest in colorado, let's revisit the second amendment because people are misinterpreting it to say i want a flame thrower, i'm going to have it. are they going to shoot planes out of the sky? i don't know where it ends because we're getting close to people saying i need a machine gun for my hunting pleasure. >> we know 11 states have already enacted assault weapons bans. we would love to see it federally, a reinstatement of the assault weapons ban. it works before and it could work again. even with all this, we should not be thinking about getting up and rolling up our sleeves and getting to work on this because

we can't stay on the sidelines. it's going to take all of us, and it's been a decade we have been doing this at moms demand action and students demand action. you think about the opposition and the gun lobby has been at this for decades. so there's work to be done. >> people should not be afraid to go to the beach, a movie, the parade. at this point, we were talking about going to the movies. i don't know if i would feel comfortable. angela, thank you very much. and thank you for all the work that you do. coming up, ron desantis kicks off his presidential campaign by laying out what he doesn't want america to look like. what he does want is easy to imagine, and it's a freaking nightmare. more next. so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the promise of

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everyone knows if i'm the nominee, i will beat biden. and i will serve two terms and i will be able to destroy leftism in this country and leave woke ideology on the dust bin of history. >> that was ron desantis on memorial day with a big old warship in the background, assuring americans as your two-term president, he will destroy leftism and wokism. that sure sounds like a massive federal overhaul of american life. we already have a good sense of what that would look like. in the most recent florida legislative session, desantis and his minions waged a war on women's reproductive rights. he's banned books. he green lit draconian restrictions on speech in schools. he's pushed a ban on black history. hurled governmental power at

individual businesses to punish them for speech he didn't like. and made guns easier to access. that's what he's done and what he wants to do to the rest of this country. per his own words. make america florida. contrast that with minnesota's democrat, governor tim walls, a man who is not running for president. in his state's most recent legislative session, he moved to get families paid family and medical leave. increased funding for free school lunches for kids, passed tax credits to low income families, strengthened gun laws. protected reproductive rights, and moved to make housing more affordable. none of that governing stuff is apparently appealing to desantis, even though florida is in desperate need of the same help. have you seen how much it costs rent a place in florida, what it costs insure your home? the logical implication of the statement about destroying wokism is if he's elected president, the federal government would ignore your material and economic needs and

instead would micromanage every aspect of your life. so i guess desantis, the desantis administration, would move to replace the boards of every one of the approximately 6,000 public universities in this country that he thinks are too woke. like he did at new college in florida. he's going to need some morality police to monitor what you read and ban books in america's 90,000 odd public schools. president desantis would ban artistic freedom of speech, of course, and wield the federal government like a sledge hammer against businesses who do anything that displeases him and other members of the far right. a national six-week abortion ban, make america florida, am i right? you want to control your body anymore, ladies? chairman -- sorry, president desantis is going to do that. there's a model for what he wants to do. look at china, cuba, north korea, afghanistan, or iran where the government censors the

media or force feeds a religious ideology to children in schools, deployed morality police to make sure you're wearing what they want, learning what they want, doing what they want. that model also happens to have a name. and it's called totalitarianism, the political concept that the citizen should totally be subject to an absolute state authority. desantis' proposal would also require a massive multi-trillion dollar federal investment in a humongous bureaucracy to control and squash unwanted wokeness. let me guess, get mexico to pay for it. freedom from big government used to be a pretty basic republican principle, but i guess that went out the window along with respect for democracy. that hasn't stopped other states from adopting the ideas of desantisstan. and that doesn't make it a winning strategy. more on that next.

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(chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? there may be some differences what, we have a ton of mulch.

with me and all trump, and i think that those differences were down to my benefit, in a place like iowa. i mean, for example, he's taken the side of disney and our fight down here in florida. i'm standing for parents, i'm standing for children, and i think a multi billion dollar company that sexualizes children is not consistent with the values of florida or the values of a place like iowa. >> i, yes, what you just witnessed was a brilliant political strategy of florida governor, ron desantis, trying to differentiate himself from his twice impeached, one term for the constituent and political sugar daddy, donald

trump. i guess at least i didn't try to overthrow the government was just too easy. attacking the biggest business and jobs provider in your state seems like a smarter move? here's the thing. not even trump's dame and off to go after america's most popular family entertainment provider. just to put this stupid disney squabble into perspective, while desantis was whining about disney, the company debuted a live action remake of the little mermaid, starring hallie bailey, a black mermaid. pause for the collective gasp of maggot snowflakes. then guess what? it was the fifth biggest memorial weekend opening of all-time. so, while desantis and his stance are clutching their pearls, oh, disney is clutching their coins to the tune of 100 and $18 million in four days. fun fact. diversity, equity, and inclusion are not just maga snowflake trigger words. they are good business. joining me now is stephanie role, nbc news senior business correspondent and the host of the 11th hour on msnbc and tim miller, writer at large at the bulwark at msnbc political

analyst. stephanie, i'm going to do the thing where i take one of our conversations that we have offer and put it on air. it is so insane to me to, for ron desantis and friends to go after woke businesses, as if these companies are a bunch of liberal sitting around a table. they like money. they really like money and they understand that that generation of gen z and younger are majority non white already. they are a lot of brown and mixed race kids, and they want to sell them dollies. and so, they make a brown mermaid to sell them dolley's, the end. your thoughts? >> 100% and while this sort of anti-woke movement, right? the people billion bug law bud light or bullying target might be loud, it's a small number of people. but where it is very dangerous, joy, is if companies, and we are seeing them start to do it, pull back, right? we are seeing it from target, we are seeing but light, you know, anheuser-busch feeling regret over this. that is dangerous. because it was just a few years

ago, joy, that is was businesses who were leading the way on a lot of these initiatives and now they are saying, i don't want to get involved in identity politics. they're actually pointing to disney and while disney and bob -- might be right, you would be hard-pressed to find another fortune 500 ceo right now to say, i want to get in the big fights bob iger are getting in. they don't. so, they're retreating. and when they retreat, that ends up being a win for these extreme groups, because the extreme groups are saying, look, corporate america is listening to us. they are not, they are just saying, i don't want to be in an identity politics war zone. >> and the thing is, tim, they admitted they want to pick a couple companies or pick a company, target them, use tiktok and other social media to target them. somebody please break it to them that walmart also has the pride stuff inside of their stores as well. chick-fil-a has a dei office, just like every other company, comcast has won two. every company hasn't because they want to recruit. they want to do well. sometimes they're pink washing, by doing a lot of the lgbtq

stuff, let's be clear. their paralysis aren't very woke, but they want to have these younger people come through. talk about the actual danger, though. because what they're doing is, they are sort of creating this army of karen's who go in and attack target employees. >> that is right, enjoy, and i do have to say first, my daughter went to see the black little mermaid movie and got the doll, so congrats, bob iger, you've got my cash already on this one. i think that's the normal response to this, based on the numbers over the weekend. here is the danger, right? it's not really political, because i think in a lot of ways, rhonda sanchez is hurting himself politically. it feels weird, it comes off as strange. he talks about sexualizing, a disney sexualizing kids. what is he even talking about? i would love for -- ask run desantis what specific scene in a disney movie he found so offensive and so sexualized, you know? i was watching, it was the princess and the frog when they kiss the frog? that happened a long time ago.

anyway, to your question, the actual danger here, though, is these kind of one-off, the radicalization of individuals, you know? if you are at target, i can actually kind of sympathize with target corporations trying to say, maybe we should pull back a little bit, for the safety of our employees. like, in these red states, like florida, where they pass constitutional carry, where you can have no background check, open carry, people can come into these stores and menace people. >> yeah and the thing is, it is brownshirt-ism, stephanie. they literally want an army of angry people who, as tim said, some of them are armed, that can go into these things and manus people. the other pieces, i grew up, my father loved reagan. the whole principle used to be small government and pro business. but what they are now saying is that they want to micromanage the trillions of dollars it would cost to micromanage 90,000 public schools from the white house, to manage 6000

public universities from the white house. it doesn't make sense because run desantis cannot manage all of those things from washington, but he says that's what he's going to do. >> joy, it's not even fact based. what you said about walmart before could not be true or, right? people are bragging saying, look at bud light. numbers are down, people aren't drinking it. they move you over to course light, well guess what? the corps company supports the lgbtq+ community just like anheuser-busch does, just like target does. while they may be pulling some items from some stores, they're not backing off from these initiatives because they want younger people to work in their stores, they want younger people to purchase products from their stores. none of this makes sense, but i would say a dangerous thing that you should be concerned of, what these small groups are ultimately looking to do, they now want to sue these companies. they want to sue these companies if they have any sort of dei initiative at all. if there's an affinity group in that company, that's what they ultimately want to go for. it's that mindset of, like, no

white man in america can get promoted because the only people who can get promoted our african american women. news flash, look at the amount of white men who are named mark, richard, or steve running companies, and there's a whole lot more of those three names then there are black women running anything in corporate america. so, all of this is based on nonsense. the dangerous nonsense that ceos and businesses, big and small, are now having to contend with. >> let me just put up this list. black women were so running the whole world, give me a break. dominoes, dunkin'donuts, when you, to mcdonald's, pizza hut, dockers, yankee candle, i could go on, all of these companies celebrate pride month. tim, last question to you. what happened to small government conservatism? when did republicanism become about micromanaging business and telling businesses how to operate? >> this is an important point. just quickly, we could do a whole hour on. it the republican party used to be a coalition between economic libertarians and social conservatives. and in the trump era, the

republican party has decided they can attract new conservative, you know, culturally conservative people by getting rid of the economic, pro market stuff, and by becoming essentially authoritarian on economic issues. this is where the party is going, it's what trump started. desantis is following it and the whole coalition is changing from what we call a classical liberal coalition in the rankings. >> they want to run companies. what do you have on your show tonight, what do you have on miss stephanie ruhle, what's happening tonight? >> we are going to begin this and we will actually talk about no labels. raising all of this money for exactly the people you are talking about who are saying, they don't subscribe to this new flavor of republicanism. the problem is, the republican base does. and while no labels can raise a whole lot of money from a lot of rich people, are they going to actually result in getting anything done? nope, nope. >> stephanie ruhle, tim miller, thank you both very much. be sure to join stuff tonight on herschel, the 11th hour. that is tonight's reidout. out front with chris hayes stts