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"the reidout" with joy reid is up next. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> you're the president of the united states. you can declassify just by saying it's declassified, even by thinking about it. because you're sending it to mar-a-lago or wherever you're sending it. and it doesn't have to be a process. there can be a process, but there doesn't have to be. >> yeah, that's what he told fox. but new reporting tonight indicates prosecutors have in their possession tape of trump after he left the white house acknowledging that he was holding on to highly sensitive material, which he did not, in fact, declassify. also tonight, the latest on the debt ceiling bill, which comes up for a critical house vote just a short time from now. the great lawrence o'donnell joins me to discuss. and maryland governor wes moore will be here. he and other democratic governors are enacting bold, progressive policies that help people instead of hurting them.

imagine that? in sharp contrast to the republicans. but we begin tonight with new reporting on the special counsel's investigation into donald trump's handling of classified documents. that seem to undercut trump's long-standing defense in the matter. >> just so you understand, i had every right to do it. i didn't make a secret of it. you know, the boxes were stationed outside of the white house. people were taking pictures of the gsa, the various -- >> i have to stop -- >> i took the documents. i'm allowed to. by the way, they become automatically declassiied when i took them. >> let me be clear. classified documents don't automatically become declassified because a president takes them to his vacation home once he leaves office. there's further evidence showing that even trump knew that to be the case. multiple sources tell cnn that federal prosecutors have obtained an audio recording of a meeting held in the summer of

2021 where trump talks about a classified document he held on to about a potential attack on iran. cnn reports that the recording indicates trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the white house, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation. on the recording, trump's comments suggest he would like to share the information, but he's aware of limitations on his ability post presidency to declassify records. two of the sources said. that meeting, held at trump's new jersey golf club, was with two people working on an autobiography of trump's former chief of staff, mark meadows. those two people did not have security clearances that would have allowed them access to classified information. sources tell cnn that special counsel jack smith is focussing on that meeting and described the recording as an important piece of evidence in a possible case against trump. joining me now is glenn

kirschner msnbc legal analyst. hugo lowell, reporter for the guardian. david k. johnston reported for trump on decades and author of "the big cheat" how donald trump fleeced america and enriched himself and his family. i'm going to go to you first, hugo, to tell me the latest of what you know about this reporting. >> yeah. look, we confirmed this shortly after the cnn report that in july 2021 trump sits down far meeting with ghost writers of mark meadow's memoir and margo martin, this press aide. trump has all of these conversations recorded because he doesn't trust the journalists or the other people on the other side of the table. >> okay. >> but this is what seems to have bitten him in this instance -- >> just to be clear, this is at bedminster, this is not at mar-a-lago. >> in the summer months, trump goes from mar-a-lago to bedminster. he spends the summer in bedminster. bedminster is interesting

because that was also where the recently departed trump lawyer suggested they didn't want to do a search of bedminster because they were worried about what they might find. but this conversation in particular is significant because from what we understand, trump was talking about retaining a secret level document. secret level documents are the kinds of things that the justice department prefers to charge in espionage cases. top secret is very difficult to get clearance from intelligence community to get those declassified for an indictment and for trial. confident documents might not be as compelling to a drand jury. secret document, that's where you want to be. >> it's the middle top level of secrecy and mundane level of secrecy. that is more appealing. how long has jack smith had this? >> we understand he has had this about several months from around mid march. the way it came into the special counsel's possession, we don't know. but we know that margo martin testified to the grand jury in march and we also know that she had her laptop and devices imaged by prosecutors working for the special counsel. so when she went in, she was

asked to talk about this recording. and multiple other witnesses were also asked to talk about this recording. and we also learned today that trump was actually subpoenaed for this recording himself. >> and mark millihas been interviewed because of this. let me read this a little bit. and this is the cnn reporting. i know the guardian has also matched the reporting. but here it is the meeting in which trump discussed the iran document with others happened shortly after the new yorker published a story by susan glasser, detailing how in the final days of trump's presidency millie instructed the joints chief of staff trump issued no illegal orders and he be informed if there was any concern. the story infuriated trump, glasser reported that in the months following the election, millie repeatedly argued against striking iran and was concerned trump would set full scale that was not classified. talked trump out of taking such action according to the new yorker story. i want to go to you really quickly, david k. johnston, because the story, as it plays out, is that trump is bragging

that millie had a plan to attack iran in these conversations. and then he starts waving around paper, and you can hear sort of paper rustling on these recordings and says if i could show you these documents, it would prove that milley is not telling the truth when he said he had no such intention of planning an attack on iran. that is sort of the staging of all of this. talk a little bit about donald trump. is it plausible, in your mind, that the thing he's waving around is the real classified documents that he pinched from mar-a-lago, having pinched them from the white house, or that he's just, you know, profiling, trying to have swagger but that it's not the documents. >> well, joy, this would be classic donald. oh, look what i have. and he's done this with photographs and other evidence to be people over the years. in the case of general milley, it's quite clear that general milliwould not be in favor of

attacking iran. but guess what, the commander in chief says we want a battle plan, the pentagon will cook you up a battle plan. that doesn't mean you're advocating it. it means you're following an order to present a plan. and understand that the pentagon does war game exercises all the time. sometimes they do these war game exercises with hollywood directors and screen writers. and frankly, i wouldn't be shocked knowing some of the war games materials i've read, the pentagon had done things like imagined a war between chile and argentina as one of these exercises. so it's meaningless that he had a document that laid it out. did he have a real document that he shouldn't have in yeah, what we know of the tape, which no journalists or prosecutors outside the office have heard. >> sure. >> what we know of the tape suggests very strongly that, yeah, he had the real deal there and long ago i said that donald wouldn't know how to understand a lot of classified documents,

but donald knows value. and he knows what something is worth. >> and that would be a motivation for having it. let me play what andrew weissmann, former federal prosecutor said earlier with my friend nicole wallace. >> if this reporting is true, and i am trying not to use hyperbole, this is game over. there is no way that he will not be charged. one, it's a tape recording. even though the reporting is there are also witnesses, there could be tape recording with witnesses. it involves not just possession of classified information, but dissemination of classified information. that puts it into a completely different ballpark when you are at the department of justice examining the seriousness of the violation and whether to bring charges. it is hard to see how given all of the evidence that we have been talking about, that there will not be a conviction here.

>> glenn kirschner, former federal prosecutor, do you concur? >> i do. let me build on what andrew said. i see this building criminal information two-fer from a trial prosecutor perspective. first of all, it may be further evidence that donald trump mishandled national defense. that's one of the charges. that falls under the espionage act. that ain't no small potatoes. so that is incriminating information, you know, number one. but the other thing that donald trump does not realize and will never realize is it may feel good in the moment when he says this stuff to those faux news networks or campaign rallies or town halls or posts things on his social media platform saying i can declassify things with my mind. they are automatically declassified when i take them from the white house. what a trial court prosecutor

will do, joy, is they will play that recording of donald trump for a jury. they will immediately follow it up with a recording of donald trump saying i can't show you this because it is classified, even though i took it from the white house six months ago. this is evidentiary gold. this is the kind of thing that persuades a jury. when you can prove the crimes with the defendant's own words in two conflicting audio recordings. i have long said, joy, and we talked about this, these cases will try themselves once federal charges are brought. the problem is and the sticking point is, they won't indictment themselves. and we are still here waiting for a federal indictment. >> yeah. indeed. hugo? >> i was just going to say, we don't have evidence yet or we may never get evidence that trump disseminated these documents. that's important.

section 793 of the espionage, dissemination and retention. so far we only have the retention, at least with respect to this recording and it's not clear if that alone is sufficient to charge. if there is evidence that he was showing classified documents, then it really is game over. >> glenn, fall up on that because the question is taking the documents to bedminster, we know there so some obstruction issues with refusing to give them back when they were asked for. this takes place before they send documents back. we know there have been conversations with staffers about how, hey, do the security cameras work at mar-a-lago. we see obstruction issues. he then took those documents to bedminster and didn't actually physically show it to someone, but sort of mimicked doing it. does that get you close enough to dissemination? >> the only person who can definitively answer that is a jury once they're presented with all the evidence. i agree with hugo's point. the espionage act, mishandling of national defense information

is probably less strong than the wrongfully removing government documents, which was one of the charges that served as the basis for the search warrant and mar-a-lago and obstruction of justice is a lay down winner because after they were subpoenaed by the grand jury as part of a criminal investigation, donald trump unlawfully continued to conceal them. so, you know, only a jury can answer that question. but you know what, if you have two block buster charges including obstruction which is a 20-year max, i would be okay with the special counsel deciding to forego bringing an espionage charge because you can only confine a man but for one life. >> david, there is the statements from the trump lawyers have all been very -- there's no evidence he did anything deliberate. seen no indication that he knowingly possessed any of the documents. this feels like this deeply undercuts that. they're now screaming about the leaks but not saying he didn't do it. how nervous do you think trump

and his people might be tonight? >> well, clearly a number of his lawyers are very nervous, particularly because of the crime fraud exception that's been applied to break the confidentiality between donald and some of his lawyers. donald has just makes up his own reality. he creates his own reality. he throws all sorts of stuff out there. when this gets to trial, my expectation is that there will be an effort to confuse the jury, to spread chaos because donald is masterful at taking crystal clear waters and muddying them. that's what they're going to focus on, i suspect, if and when we get to a trial. just -- the jury -- it's too hard to understand. there's all these conflicts here. and skilled prosecutors know how to get through that, but it will not be terribly easy to do but they will be worried. >> i will note you said when, not if, this ever comes to

trial. glenn kirschner, hugo lowell, david k. johnston. thank you all very much. up next on "the reidout." the house is to vote on a debt ceiling deal that is drawing fire from the left and the right. "the reidout" continues after this. right. "the reidout" continues after this not a game! we're talking about cashbacking. we're talking about... we're not talking about practice? no... cashbacking. word. we're talking about cashbacking. cashbacking. cashbacking. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance...

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and you're not tired anymore, and your anxiety, everything is gone. it's definitely worth trying. it is an amazing product. we're just over an hour away from a critical vote with the u.s. economy on the line. the house representatives will vote on the debt limit deal hashed out by president biden and speaker kevin mccarthy.

both biden and mccarthy have expressed confidence that the deal, which would suspend the nation's debt limit until 2025, has the votes needed to pass the house. even as the hard right freedom caucus and some progressives say they will oppose it. >> i think that democrats and republicans are all going to fleece the american people. >> does this represent a new coalition, a new trajectory where the speaker is going to go to the democrats more and more. >> my beef is that you cut a deal that shouldn't have been cut. >> this is not our deal. this is a right wing center right deal. and if we want to have credibility with the progressive wing of the party, then we need to be able to show that we're fighting for them. >> i think republicans need to own this vote. this was their deal. this was their negotiations. but kevin mccarthy needs to put up his vote. if he needs mine, he can come get it and come negotiate some things away. >> mccarthy will need democratic votes to get the deal passed, since more than two dozen republicans voted against the

rule setting it up for tonight's final vote. if it passes tonight, it goes to the senate. ahead of a looming june 5th default deadline. joining me now is my friend and colleague lawrence o'donnell, host of "the last word" on msnbc. hey, lawrence. so i do want to talk about that. those two groups of people who have said they're hard no's. i learned from you. i listen to you and i watch "the last word" there are allowable no votes. you can send a message with a vote as long as your vote isn't dispositive. so when the progressives say they're not voting for it, that's because their message is we shouldn't negotiate with these people. on the right, they weren't going to vote for it any way. it's all just messaging, right? >> yeah. so on the democratic side, every democrat in the house of representatives wants this bill to pass. they do not all have to vote for it for that to happen. every republican, including chip roy actually wants this thing to pass. they want to get this dead cap off their doorstep because they

don't know what else to do. you notice they don't suggest any alternative to it on either side by the way. the democrats said they don't like it. republicans said they don't like it. no alternative. and these republicans, who are going to fire kevin mccarthy, the second he did something they don't like, not one of them is making the slightest whimper about firing kevin mccarthy, which each individual one of them is capable of doing. only takes one of them to call for a vote on kevin mccarthy's speakership. they aren't doing it because this is the only possible solution to this situation we're in right now. and it was masterfully negotiated by joe biden. the republicans are correct that kevin mccarthy got next to nothing. he got some tiny little things in this, which joe biden and the administration will be capable of adjusting in their favor after the bill is passed.

you know, for example, work requirements on this very small group of people who will be getting food assistance. a work requirement is administered by the biden administration. they can decide whether you have met the work requirement by trying or they can make a decision that you're not capable of working. we understand that. the work requirement doesn't apply to you. so administering this work requirement is not up to the republicans. it's going to be up to the biden administration. >> right. >> and they've expanded in the process the number of people who will actually end up getting food support. so, the biden side of it really has done a remarkable, just amazing job in this negotiation. and what people have to understand, what the audience has to understand, i know not everyone does, is that at some point in this calendar year, joe biden had to negotiate with the republican house about budget

issues. if he didn't do it on the debt ceiling, he was going to have to do it in september. and in september, there would be the threat of a government shutdown if they didn't reach an agreement. this agreement eliminates the debt ceiling for two years and it eliminates the possibilities of a government shutdown over budget stuff in september. so, it's just astonishing what it does. as of tonight, as of tonight, joy, the debt ceiling, the actual legislative debt ceiling of the united states of america, is rounded off to 3.4 -- $31.4 trillion. it's actually 31,381,000, 000. as of tonight, after this bill is signed, after the republicans get this bill, the debt ceiling will be nothing -- >> whatever. >> nothing. it won't exist. it will be gone. there will be none. it literally the sky is the limit. they didn't raise it. they eliminated it. they eliminated it for two full

years. i mean, it's just -- i thought maybe biden could get a six-month extension on the debt ceiling. a year maximum to end up with two years to take him through the election, to take all the democrats through the election, never have to think about it again on the democratic side, is astonishing. >> it says to me that i feel like people do underestimate joe biden. you talked about this before. he is a senator to his core. he understands how this process works. and i think people forget that that is where he came from. but you're absolutely right. what kevin mccarthy had to do, he had no choice. he can't crash the economy, is give away the issue of the debt ceiling, the issue of the budget, all the way through the presidential campaign when his party's chair said she wanted a recession that it would be good for the republicans. so, explain to me in any way -- because there are democrats who

are unhappy with it. people like bernie sanders weren't no, no. >> are they unhappy they did it all. >> there aren't any democrats unhappy with this. there's a mandatory acting process that's necessary here. it is very important for democrats to speak out against this because if they declare it to be the victory that it actually is, it can blur people's understanding of what policies they care about. so, yes, there are democrats who very much opposed to some of the policies in this bill. but every one of them if their vote was necessary would vote -- >> vote for it. >> they absolutely would vote for it. >> yeah. >> so what they need to do, though, is make the kind of points to republicans. bernie sanders is really speaking to republicans on the hill. he's really speaking to them saying, here is what you won't be able to do with me in the future. that's what these are about. all the statements made now by the progressive caucus members in that are statements about what they won't be willing to do

in the future. and they need to make republicans understand that they're still here and it's only because this is a debt ceiling that this is going through. that's all totally legitimate. but none of them would actually oppose this bill if it came down to their vote. >> and last question, why not make this the status quo permanent? because no sane country that is of our equivalent economy has a debt limit. can democrats find a way to keep this status that is going to go through january of 2025 beyond that and take this hostage away from republicans? >> so the reason they don't want to do it, the reason they don't want to go out on the senate floor -- they would have to have control of the senate, control of the house, okay. go out and simply repeal a debt ceiling. >> yeah. >> we no longer have it as a law. it's gone. the debate that they would go through on the senate floor where it would be amendable and it would be subject to a 60-vote threshold and all of that, it would go on forever.

>> right. >> they would be accused of just being crazy lunatics with the debt, and they wouldn't win the public debate over it. conceptually it makes perfect sense. >> right. sure. >> you need 60 votes in the senate to do it, so we're not going to see it happen. >> i can dream, though, lawrence. >> yes, you can. >> i can dream. lawrence o'donnell, thank you so much. be sure to join lawrence tonight on "the last word" at 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. it is always must-see tv. thank you, lawrence. >> thank you, joy. coming up, texas attorney general ken paxton faces impeachment as his colleagues try to seize control over elections in one of the bluest counties in the state. we'll be right back. the bluest counties in the state. we'll be right back.

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♪♪ over memorial day weekend, texas attorney ken paxton was impeachmented by an overwhelming majority of democrats and his fellow republicans. he now has a special honor of being the third state official in texas history and the first in a half century to be temporarily removed from office. paxton is no stranger to corruption. one could argue it's sort of his thing. he's been under investigation in one form or another for nearly a decade. the 20 articles of impeachment include breath-taking charges of abuse of office, adultery,

bribery and unethical behavior. he is set to stand trial in the state senate where republicans outnumber democrats 19-12. and let's not get it twisted. texas republicans voted to impeach, not because they had some come to jesus about good governance. they did it because they were annoyed that paxton got caught and was trying to make texas taxpayers pay for his $3 million mistake. right on queue, donald trump rode to paxton's rescue, attacking state republicans for impeaching him. paxton and trump have had a symbiotic relationship. back in 2020 paxton sued to challenge the results in georgia, pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. before that, he successfully sued the state's most populous county, harris county, which happens to be heavily democratic to prevent them from using universal mail-in ballots. and he was pretty proud of it. >> we had 12 losses that we had to win. and if we lost one of them, like if we lost harris county, trump won by 620,000 votes in texas. harris county mail-in ballots

they wanted to send out 2.5 million they were all legal, we were able to stop. had we not done that, we would be in the very same situation, election night -- i was watching election night. and i knew when i saw what was happening in these other states that that would have been texas. we would have been in the same boat. we would have been one of those battleground states that they were counting votes in harris county for three days and donald trump would have lost the election. >> while texas house republicans impeached that guy, they continue to target democratic counties in the state. governor abbott is expected to sign several bills into law that would, among other things, allow the secretary of state who is hand picked by the governor, to redo any election in harris county. joining me now is matthew dowd, msnbc political analyst and former candidate for lieutenant governor of texas. texas congress woman sheila jackson lee will join us in a moment. i want to start with you, matthew, because this revelation, this braggadocious by greg abbott, corrupt and indictment and now impeached

attorney general of texas, actually answer the question for me, why is texas -- which has majority minority population, so so red? harris county is 4.6 million of the state's 29 million people. it's the largest county by far. dallas county the next largest county is 2.6 million people. if you control it and suppress its votes, voila. republicans can't lose statewide. your thoughts? >> well, texas -- it's just one of many instances where they've made texas one of the -- i think it's the hardest state to vote in in the country when you combine registration with that. that wasn't the case 25 years ago before republicans took power. texas used to be the 14th ranked state in ease of voting. now it's 50th in the ease of voting. all of this has to do with the changing nature of texas. and i'll give you one interesting fact. between the 2020 census and between the 2010 census and the 2020 census, texas added 4

million people. 4 million people were added in texas. 95% of the people that were added were non-white. 95% of the increased population was hispanic, black and asian in texas. they understand demographics. and so instead of doing -- what's amazing about what ken paxton said, which is i want to make it harder for people to vote. that's basically what he said. i don't want to give people the opportunity to vote. i want to make it hard. that is the case in texas and other states, as you know, because we had this conversation. they can't win an election that looks like texas. if the election day looked like texas, they can't win. they could appeal to people -- non-white texans. they don't want to. and so what do they do, make -- they rig the system so the election doesn't look like texas. >> i mean, just down to the fact that texas -- we counted up today. they have like over 200 different districts.

some as small as 89 people in some of these rural districts. then you've got these 3 or 4 giant districts that have a million or more people that are the more blue tinged districts. that's how you construct a state where you make most of the districts these tiny little rural district. let's just look at harris county. statewide, trump versus biden. statewide it was tight, 5.9 million for trump, 5.2 million for biden. but in harris county, biden beat trump, 918,000 to 700,000. go back to 2016, it's also close. 4.6 million statewide to 3.8. people don't understand, that's not a huge margin. you know, democrats are pretty competitive but in harris county, the democrats win. they are now attempting to dissolve the harris county election administrator. this is the republicans who impeached paxton, not paxton himself. empower the secretary of state to seize election power from election officials. they can redo the election, pull

texas out of the electronic registration information center where you can get voting data and increase the penalty for illegal voting from a misdemeanor to a felony. they are rigging this state, matthew. >> i used to run campaigns in texas back years ago. it was common thought is harris county, houston, is going to vote republican. so you figure out the margins you need there and margins you need in other places. dallas county was the same way. let me give you prediction, they'll go after dallas county. that's the next place they go. and what's happened is the changing nature of texas, harris county is now from a red county to a blue county. dallas county is from a red county to a blue county. what they're doing is sort of de-emphasizing or making it -- them give those counties larger counties less power in the state because what they voted was equal to the rest of the counties, the small coucounties democrats would win. on that data you showed 2020

election, 5.9 million voted for trump, 5.2. 5.5 million texans who are registered didn't vote. unregistered. 5.5 million texans in the presidential election in 2020 were registered and did not vote. >> didn't vote. >> that's the problem. >> speaking of harris county, let me bring in sheila jackson lee who represents harris county. you hopefully been able to hear what we have been talking about, congress woman. how does that materially impact people in harris county that 4.6 million people are essentially disenfranchised and the attorney general, the impeached attorney general of your state is bragging about doing it. >> it is a horror of proportions that one cannot imagine. and that means that all of the fight that was ever made in the civil rights movement and before the lives lost the civil rights soldiers gone to naught because

here we are in 2023 with conspicuous denial of voting right. added to that on jun 1st the state will take over a duly elected school board for the houston independent school district they will be thrown out and appointed board of managers that no one knows who they are. so, from overturning our elections by one person, the governor of the state of texas at his own will, by taking away a whole administrative infrastructure that the voters have voted on by voting on the public officials who designed it, we're basically extinguishing our constitutional rights to vote. i think the 13th amendment indicated african-americans that they are no longer enslaved and have the rights and privileges as a citizen of the united states. this includes hispanics, african-americans, progressives, women, people who have different views from the president's administration, various other

ethnic groups and it denies when you say harris county, it denies houston which is the fourth largest city in the nation. it's unimaginable. we are fearful of the potential of innocent infractions by hard-working volunteers, similar to georgia in the last election, being arrested or threatened with felonies for simple mistakes. i was there when the paper shortage came about. i was at a poll. there was no fraud. it was not malicious. it happened that people were voting and not enough paper ballots. this is the first year we used those paper ballots which the state required us to use in harris county was the first one to be courageous enough to use it. so we were using it, but we ran out of paper. now we're being penalized. that was the only issue that generated into this very, very, very infringing, threatening, and frightening bill that is going to intimidate hard-working, civic leaders who all they want to do is give

people their right to vote. we'll fight this for sure. >> absolutely. and we're going to stay on top of this because the impeachment is interesting. but it's the disenfranchisement and the bragging about disenfranchising people we need to pay attention to. this is anti-democracy. and it's apartheid. congress woman sheila jackson lee -- we'll stay on top of all that. congress woman sheila jackson lee from harris county and matthews dowd also a texan. thank you both for being here. still ahead, the republican party gleefully embraces authoritarianism blue state sure up their defenses against escalating defenses against freedom and democracy. we're back after this. enses aga freedom and democracy. we're back after this. weak enam. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. - representative! - sorry, i didn't get that. - oh buddy! you need a hug.

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that's the point. get real about your risks and do something about it. talk to your health care provider about ways to lower your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. learn more at getrealaboutdiabetes.com so far in florida governor ron desantis' time as a president -- during ron desantis's as a presidential candidate, he has given very little indication of what he would do as president when it comes to the economy or foreign policy. instead, it's been a bunch of word salad where he says woke a lot. his only real campaign promise has been to desantfy america, if you will. turn every state into florida whether you like it or not. and in some states where we are already starting to see that state of disunion come to pass. over the weekend, republican lawmakers in texas followed in florida's footsteps, passing a ban on d.e.i. programs at state

universities. you have alabama governor kay ivy yesterday signed a law banning transgender woman playing on female sports teams in college. iowa governor kim reynolds bans any mention of gender identity or sexual orientation in schools and removes any book that depicts sex from school libraries with the exception of, wait for it, the bible. while this is all happening, you also have a large chunk of the country where states are doing the complete opposite. states with democratic legislatures and governors that are actually getting a lot of progressive policies passed. minnesota, for example, is just wrapped up its most transform tiff legislative session yet, passing bills that would codify paid leave, increase funding for school lunches, tax credits for low income families and affordable housing. in michigan, governor gretchen with it chen signed a major red flag gun bill into law and illinois is set to become the first state in the country to actually ban book bans. another state that has seen a lot of progress is maryland.

where governor wes moore has signed progressive laws on abortion, gender-affirming care and gun reform just to name a few. and joining me now is governor wes moore of maryland. i now get to officially congratulate you many months later on becoming the first black governor of maryland. it was a big win i think for progressives. it was historic. and i want to let you just talk about how you all have gotten off the ground running. because we're seeing a style of governing in states like florida that feels very punitive. how do you see the job of governor? and what are you trying to do? >> i think one of the things we're doing here in maryland is we're progressive values are something we're getting not just democrats, but mostly even republican support for, where, when we say that we are not going to be a say that's going to force people to justify their humanity, that we are going to be a state that says

that reproductive health and abortion care should be a decision between a woman and horror her doctor, and not politicians and judges that were able to actually get support for these type of initiatives across the board. when we say that we are going to be a state that is not going to pick fights with our largest employers and is not going to make people who are creating jobs make life more difficult for them, that we are getting support across the aisle for that, and so, the thing i think we are seeing here with the state of maryland is, by being a state that can be more humane, by being a state that can actually lead with common sense and depoliticize these issues, we are not only able to make progress, but we are able to get success and actually get buy in from across party lines, in order to make that progress happen. >> you mentioned going to war with your biggest employer. i heard disney in my mind. so, i will just ask you about that. you have now republican governors, not just desantis, but others, accusing disney of sexualizing children.

and no one really understands what they mean by that. i guess they mean, you know, saying somebody is gay and the thing is sexualize, we don't know what they mean. but there are real cases of people who are sexualizing and abusing children. there was even a case here in maryland, there was an arch -- in maryland, you know, we've had an illinois, a multi year investigation to child sex abuse by members of the catholic clergy, found out these 19,000 people across the state had been sexually abused on more than 450 catholic leaders here in your state, in maryland. these states attorney general accuse catholic church officials and baltimore of engaging in a yearlong cover about the sexual abuse of more than 600 kids, some of whom were preyed upon by multiple abusers over decades. so, when people are talking about sexualizing children, but not talking about these institutions that are supposed to be trusted by families, what do you make of that? >> i think the hypocrisy is staggering and the silence on this issue has been deafening. you know, these allegations that we have seen here in the state of maryland and across

the country, there are horrific. and they are just gruesome. when you consider the impact that it had, and it's the reason why i'm proud of the fact that maryland lead, and apparently signed a bill this year in our general assembly that ensured that there was not going to be a statute of limitations for victims who are going to claim and make claims against people who have victimized them. and i signed that bill proudly because i said, there is no statute of limitations on the pain the victims are feeling. that when we are watching harm done to a child, that child is going to feel that for the remainder of their lives. and so, there cannot be a statute of limitations on the ability to go make a claim on this, when we know that the statute, there is no statute of limitations on the pain that that victim is feeling. >> yeah, i don't think drag shows and disney are harming children. this is what's harming children. let's talk guns for a moment. let's talk guns because, you know, obviously there are parts of maryland where there are a lot of challenges, places like baltimore.

have you had pushback on the idea? you know, maryland actually has seen gondolas. you actually need a permit and you need a lot of permitting, you need instruction. have you gotten pushback from republicans on it? on trying to actually have this state be more seen, when it comes to guns and gun violence? >> i've been very clear here in the state of maryland, there is an issue with violence that we have and again, not just in the state of maryland, but we see the issue of violence around the country. and part of the, both the cause and the concern of that, is just been accessibility to firearms. and it's the reason why we've been very aggressive to be able to not just put together funding the laws that are going after illegal guns and getting these illegal guns out of our communities and out of our streets, but also i know that there is no reason for someone under the age of 21 to be able to purchase a firearm. we need to be more aggressive about it. if you have a person with a history of mental illness and a history of violence, that they

should not be able to purchase a weapon. and yes, there is no reason for someone to be able to bring a firearm into a nursery, or into a government building, or into a school. these are common sense gun laws that we push for, that i proudly signed, and while there has been, and even if people want to push back on me, i want to let them know, i will not blink on this. and i am not flinching because i refuse to be a governor who's going to spend my entire time going to funerals. and i refused to be a governor who's going to spend my entire time giving thoughts and prayers, and not passing a single piece of legislation to actually make people safe. these are common sense gun laws that we passed here in the state of maryland and i think the thing that we are seeing is how other states are watching what we are doing in the state of maryland, and are also now following suit. >> and i will note that maryland is one of the safest states in the country. it ranks in the bottom tier, in terms of the number of gun violence incidents, unlike some

other states that might not be so blue. maryland governor wes moore, congratulations again. thank you very much and come back if you have or announce anything in 2028 that might be of interest to the national audience, you know? if you want to think about that. i mean, people talk about it. you know people talk about it, right? okay. i will leave it there. thank you, governor more. >> it's so good to be with you, always. >> i thought you were about to announce. okay, never mind, okay, thank you, we will be right back. >> oh no! e will be right back >> oh no >> oh no we tried electric unicycles. i think i've got it! doggy-paddle! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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