tell you? they put out any alert about the scam? or but even aware of? them? >> it doesn't seem like it? well, the problem is is that these sorts of scams aren't uncommon, especially with the proliferation of a.i., we are going to see more and more of. them and i don't think it's not really fair, i don't think, to put that on the trump campaign, right? however, that people who bought this stuff, the trump supporters, are very upset, because they do want trump to come out where the campaign to come out and say, don't fall for this scam. unfortunately, that's just not happening. >> what is the worst loss that someone suffered, based on what you've reported and uncovered? >> yeah, we met an older woman on this ability. her daughter and law contacted us from tampa, and she said she had spent and showed us, sent us 17 photos of just tables full of this junk. she had spent tens of thousands of dollars on it.

really sad. >> that is absolutely heartbreaking. oh, brandi. you need to keep on keeping on. thank you for the work you do, and thanks for coming to talk to us about it. in the meantime, there are a slew of new headlines in the trump classified documents case, along with reports of that new audiotape. the implications of all of this with the author of these stories, our new hour starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ a very good day from all of you to msnbc world headquarters in new york, thank you to alex witt reports. we begin this hour with new reaction to the big debt ceiling deal, with president biden having signed it today. his historic first oval office address dominating the front pages of newspapers across the country, highlighting his pronouncement of crisis averted, and his message of unity and bipartisanship i know bipartisanship is hard. and unity is hard.

but we can never stop trying, no matter how tough our politics gets, we need to see each other not as adversaries, but as federal americans. >> that signings actually, eminent in the meantime, a new wrinkle in the doj investigation of donald trump's handling of classified documents, one former trump lawyer, who was involved in the documents investigation, raising the prospect that trump may have been bluffing when he was caught on audio claiming to have a classified iran document. >> was that really a bluff? was that a real document? we would need to take a look at this hole tape in context, and talk to the witnesses, find out what was going on in the room, find out what he was even talking about. >> the summer campaign season is kicking off, with republican candidates converging on iowa for today's roasted ride, the annual event hosted by gop senator joni ernst, we're going to have a live report from des moines for you, in just a few minutes. but first, we have two reports on the presidents speech, as we await official word of the

signing of the bill, including the student loan provision in that bill, so, we're going to go first to nbc's garrett -- at the white house. welcome, how is the white house selling the step deal? >> president biden is taking this message, as he loves to do, directly to the american people. you saw that last night in his first ever oval office address that was formally in primetime at 7:00. and what you did was he told people was in the bill, what was not in the debt ceiling bill, and i talked about just how close this country did get to a default, where we would be unable to pay our bills. let's talk a little bit about what is inside this bill that is expected to be signed, really, any moment now that president biden in the white house behind me. we're talking about the big number, which is he is suspending the debt ceiling until january 1st, 2025. it also limits military spending and non-military spending, and it returns about 28 billion dollars in unspent covid relief funds. it also eliminates one for four billion dollars in the irs budget, and restarts federal student loan payments.

that is something president biden wouldn't have wanted in this agreement, but of, course it is an agreement. it's something, as he said last night, neither side got exactly what they wanted. bipartisanship was a big topic, he spent a lot of time talking about yesterday. here's part of what he had to say. >> when i ran for president, i was told that the days of bipartisanship or over. that democrats and republicans could no longer work together. but i refused to believe that. because america can never give into that way of thinking. it's the only way american way democracy can function is by compromising consensus, and that's what i work to do as your president. to forge bipartisan agreement where it is possible, and where is needed. >> and while there was this pokes on bipartisanship. he did throw pitches to his 2024 campaign. he said, in part, i'm going to be coming back, and with, your help i'm going to. when it was certainly a victory lap of shorts in the white house are expecting that bill to be signed any moment now.

>> okay, good news, there's more if it for the president, gary. take us through the new jobs report what the white house is saying about that? >> yes, some big numbers here for the white house on yet another jobs report. in may, there were 339,000 jobs added. that's more jobs than were expected to be added, so that certainly good news. the unemployment rate was at 3.7%. we hadn't seen numbers like this, really, since the 1960s. so, another good piece of news for this white house, and the president is celebrating, that, saying barr, in a statement, we have created over 13 million jobs as at the office. that's more jobs in 28 months than any president has created in an entire four-year term. now of course, coronavirus and the jobs that were built after that, certainly had something to do with that, but this is a good news weekend for the white house. alex? >> that's good, then. well into right. there thank, you gary. let's go now to one of the items in the bill that president biden is expected to sign today, the ending of the pause on federal student loan payments. nbc's julie tsirkin joining us

from capitol hill, julie, what are the details on that? >> well, this is so interesting, because the student loan payment that and to that pause, as one of the only items of this bill, aside, of, course, from a voting to fall, that americans will actually be able to feel the practical implications of. so, what this bill, this agreement between republicans and president biden does to student loan payments, is able and the pause that americans have been enjoying since march of 2020. since under the former administration, of course, it's a pandemic era policy. by august 30th, combat day in just a few months, students and americans who graduated with student loan debt will once again need to start making payments and they will start facing some interest on top of that that also has been paused for the last several years. our own colleague, lindsey reiser, actually spoke to some students in new york this past week. take a listen to that reaction. >> i didn't realize it was going to be that soon, and that abrupt. so, yeah. it's going to be a shock, because now we have to allocate more of a budget now too pay

those back in a timely manner. >> it's a little nerve-racking. i guess because their interests will start. >> i'm honestly not too worried about it, just because i know with the flexibility, i know it's available for me. >> on top of paying rent, wherever i'm gonna be living on top of college, i have to be worrying about that as well. >> helen beat the rector -- the top white house negotiator in the room, did say that this plan that was ultimately included in the compromise version, was not too far off the administrations current plans to end the pause on those payments. separately, though, alex, but bill that republican and democrat has bill, was not successful in including a republican efforts to stop the president from pursuing a separate effort to cancel up to $20,000 in student loan debts for millions of americans. of course, the senate did passed a stand-alone version of that bill. the president did veto that. now, that battle will be in the supreme court, where we expect a ruling sometime at the end of this month, or early july, so, a lot of news concerning student loan payments coming out with the last few days.

>> okay, thank you very much for that, clarification. appreciate. that fort more on all of this, we have congressman adam smith, joining us later on in the hour. that is at 1:30, just ahead. overseas now, first lady jill biden visiting the pyramids of giza and the great sphinx near cairo this morning. it's all part of a middle east tour after attending a royal wedding in jordan. she met with egypt's president, first lady today, and visited a technical school in the country. before departing for another stop in morocco. she's going to spend several days there, before heading to portugal next week. all of this, by the, way about also happens to be the first lady's birthday. happy birthday, dr. biden! sometimes, when running for president, you have to resort to what feels like acts of desperation,, like writing hogs and flipping pork. most of the republican field finds itself in that very situation today. a lot of report in 60 seconds. 60 seconds. ess, you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time.

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kicking off. eight republican candidates are attending senator joni ernst annual roast and ride. it's at the state fairgrounds. it's a chance for gop hopefuls to write motorcycle, see barbecue, and make their pitches to voters and take a into selfies as well. let's go to nbc's vaughn hillyard, who is there in des moines for us, so talk about the festivities so far, my friend. what are you hearing from the candidates? -- alex, first of all of this gop field for 2024 it's here except for donald trump. but it's about to start here momentarily. they want to give you just a look at the scene here. this is where folks are picking up the report. we've got, bff, you've just picked up your. pork what state are you from? >> waterloo, iowa. >> what -- do you have? >> i haven't decided yet. >> haven't decided yet. >> a good one. >> that's why you're going to be here today. >> right. >> very good. thank you, ma'am. we're going to say, each of the candidates has a different setup of tables here, alex. when you come inside of the venue -- >> -- >> when you come inside of the venue, you've got a great --

mark -- all lead them on attorney. we've got mike pence right here. over to the right, you've got ron desantis. tim scott was somewhere around here. essentially, alex, this is the first kickoff of the summer of campaigning for this republican field here. an opportunity to talk to thousands of ayo winds and begin to make the case. i want to let you hear we've, got a little back and forth with two of the candidates so far. take a listen. >> what do you say that donald trump is not here? >> i'm just happy to be here. i love the people. here i think this is a great defense and you know, there is a lot of friends who've developed. will make a lot more friends. >> oh, i will do what we need to do to get on the debate -- and i don't like loyalty pledges. i don't think candidates ought to be on the debate say and rana's third party candidate,

but i've always opposed the loyalty pledge. we'll be on the debate stage, and i'm confident that we can say we will support the nominee of the party, because i hope that it's me. and they hope it will be somebody that could be fully excited about. >> now, the recent, alex, we brought up the loyalty pledges because the rnc came out with this requirement purely to appear on the debate stage two and a half months from that, that gop debate. they're several climates, occluded having to commit to supporting the eventual republican nominee, but in this field, it's only growing. mike pence is expected to announce here this week, as well as chris christie, as well as the north dakota governor, doug burgum, and the former vice president is a little distance from here. so, i don't think we're going to try what we did with governor desantis earlier and shouted out. we want to talk with folks,. alex but this is a sort of set a probe forward look again. we're expecting you to these candidates to take the stage here in the hours ahead. >> hey, you know what? i was taking you on to make that question to desantis,

which he did. thank you very, much but let me, say you got him. you corralled him. he couldn't escape. you, so well don, my friend. quickly, do these candidates ever interact with each other or do they stay in their own little posse and, they just move around without interacting? they're trying to get the voters, after all. >> you know, it's one that you ask that, because that's what i was trying to tune into and see to what extent there was mingling among them. so far, i haven't seen it. of course, nikki haley and tim scott know each other well, nikki haley, of course, employees and tim scott to the senate. of course, nikki haley and mike pence have a close relationship as well. so, there's someone in those dynamics of that play at the same time that they are trying to convince these voters to choose them over their friends and fellow republicans. so, we'll come back at you. we'll see how the afternoon plays out. this is really, the first iowa gathering of this sort of complexion here, if you may, to kick off the summer of campaigning. >> grassroots politics, right there for all to see. thank you so much. appreciate that's, von. joining me now is msnbc political analyst and former

white house press secretary, robert gibbs. hey, let's look, roberts, at a scenario. this was floated on twitter by geraldo rivera. ready? here's what he says. biden pardoning trump, the way forward pardoned nixon, is a good idea. this clemency to include inciting the violence of january six, the mar-a-lago documents case, and any other federal allegation. clemency will require a pledge by trump that he will no longer seek the presidency. so, my question to you is, is he on to something? is that even realistic? >> no. i can't imagine. if that's realistic, alex, i've got oceanfront property in kansas i'd be happy to sell you. i think a likelihood of something like that happening is almost, if not, completely zero. >> okay, let me take this a step further. others have suggested taking geraldo's idea a little bit further and banning trump from ever seeking or accepting any

office on any level at all. if he were to take this pardon, right? so, politically, what a pardon be smart to get trump out of contention, smart for democrats, support for the country? how do you see it? >> well, look. i think everyone, particularly the party, understands the danger of what another trump term would be. i just think the likelihood, we saw two republicans had an opportunity to deal with this in the second impeachment of donald trump after what happened on january six, and obviously, declined to take it. i don't really see again, that this is all that like we have scenario. i don't think donald trump would, quite frankly take part in this scenario like this, because i think he sets it on trying to be president of the united states. >> let's go back to the iowa event we were just witnessing, some of those who are there, the real clear politics, national polling average, robert shows that trump is dominating the gop field.

leading with about 53% support. closest behind him, ron desantis, with about 22 points. if trump were to win the nomination, can he realistically be elected, given his mountain of legal troubles? >> it's a great question, alex. i mean, i thought a lot about this, and i think about it probably every single day. i think there is a clear national ceiling that donald trump has. i think if you think about the 2020 election, all this transpired since then is likely made it even more difficult for him to be elected president of the united states. that's having been said, if you look back at the 2020 election, a swing of just probably 45,000 or so votes in three states, and the outcome of that is different. so, i think the likelihood that you can say that is unlikely or that he will never be elected again, it's a risky that. i will say this, too. i love national polling averages. what you are watching in iowa is going to have an

extraordinarily big impact on this race. if somebody beats donald trump on the republican side in iowa, this entire race is recast, and the national polling, that morning after something like that happening, would be completely different than it is that. if donald trump wins in iowa, then there is fewer places in which other republicans have to beat him. so, national polling is something we focus on, because quite frankly, it's easy to produce. i'm much more concerned and much more interested in what's going on in iowa, who's winning iowa, who is building coalitions in iowa, what is the political movement like there, and i am looking at a national poll. >> do you have any sense on who could beat donald trump in iowa, at this point? >> i think there's a couple. obviously, you've got ron desantis with a pretty healthy number to begin with. right? and recall, donald trump didn't listen i -- didn't win iowa in 2016, ted

cruz did. >> right! >> it's not as if he starts off with this huge base in iowa. clearly, the numbers in some of the iowa pole and we've seen put donald trump ahead in iowa. but you know, it mike pence writes him scott are going to appeal to christian evangelicals, which will comprise a large part of the iowa caucus. some of my republican friends also wonder what's going to happen with democrats. are they going to play around in the iowa caucus? because the democratic side to this, there's not this in years past. i also think,, to watch what happens in the multi candidate field went to people attack each other, right? we've seen this already from trump and desantis. that almost assuredly creates a lane. whether that lane is big enough for a third candidate to basically say, look let those two squabble, let those to fight, let me tell you what i want to do as president. that tends to be what happens they multi candidate field when you get two people attacking each other. so, i want to say this.

i think there's a lot of twists and turns left on the republican side. undoubtedly, donald trump right now is the front runner. whether he is the front runner in the morning after the iowa caucus is a big bet. >> but that's combat between two could actually leave an opening for the gentlemen we were seeing right there, that being mike pence. he one of the two gop candidates that are officially entering the race this next week. the second one being former new jersey governor, chris christie. christie's unfavorability writing in the latest monmouth university poll is at 47%. that is about the highest of any presidential candidate polled over the last decade. he's completely upside down in that one. it's the more of a trump disruptor, or does he have a shot at the republican nomination, do you think? >> i think his chances of being the republican nominee are quite small. right, those kind of unfavorability ratings are going to be hard to erase. but i do think you point out exactly what chris christie is

likely to be, if he can get on this debate stage. and i think you will not only be an agitator and a disruptor for trump, but i also think he will turn his cannon fire also on ron desantis. we saw this last time. in 2016, he almost singlehandedly took apart marco rubio. and actually, he paved the way for donald trump to win new hampshire, with chris christie's endorsement i. think obviously, he will have a much different message this time. given the unfavorability rating, he's almost certainly going to be the agitator, looking to destroy both trump and desantis. >> okay, robert, gives, always a pleasure, my friend. thank you much. we look forward to the next one. in the meantime, hope is lost at the scene of inexplicable tragedy in india, with fresh news on a search for train crash the rivers, but one big question remains unanswered. that is next. and later, mystery on the high seas. what you are witnessing right there was once rare, and we are trying to understand these inexplicable attacks.

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a new look at the devastating and one of the world's deadliest train disasters. hundreds part dead, and nearly 1000 people are injured in the investigation into just how this tragedy happened is just getting underway. let's go to nbc's megan fitzgerald following the story from london. vacant, what's the latest on this tragic scene today? >> quite be with you, as we

mentioned, we are talking about one of the worst train accidents that the world has ever seen. so, this is the latest information of what we know. according to the indian railroad minister is that there was at least two trains involved here. there was a passenger train, that for some unknown reason, which is currently under investigation, had at least ten of its coaches to railed. the debris from that incident went on to a nearby track. now you've got the second train coming in and opposite direction, that collided with that debris. now, it had several of its own coaches derailed. so, the death toll we see here continues to soar. right now, as closing in at about 300. we know that the injured is around 1000. earlier today, indian prime minister modi visited the scene, surveying the damage. he also went to a nearby hospital to see some of the injured fair, and he is battling a complete and several investigation into what happened at the hold those accountable. they will say they will receive strict punishment, he said.

the reality of the situation is unfortunately, these train accidents are not uncommon in india. you've got some 12 million people taking some 14,000 trains to get around throughout the country, resulting in hundreds of accidents a year. of course, alex, this is certainly the worst the country has seen since 1995, when there was a crash that killed some 350 people. >> these aerial footage images, these photos are horrible to see the extent of this. megan, thank you for covering it. what a tragedy. in the meantime, let's go for today's other top stories. officials in davenport, iowa, and that's financial assistance to residents and businesses impacted from that apartment building collapse. police also released harrowing 9-1-1 calls placed before the tragedy. three people remain unaccounted for as crews are cleaning through the rubble. in louisville, kentucky, churchill downs has suspended all racing operations while investigators mount an investigation into mysterious

horse deaths. 12 horses are dead after a number of injuries over the past month. investigators say no patterns, though, between the incidents have yet emerged. and the nova scotia canada firefighters managed to put out five of the 15 wildfires raging across the region. crews today are battling one blaze considered the largest wildfire ever recorded their. firefighters are also getting help from mother nature, with a week of rain for test, it is a battle that ended just in time for america, but with both sides declaring victory, but does it mean? another close encounter with china in the skies this one dramatically close, take a look at this headline. the jet flying past the nose of the u.s. plane, so, what should be done? i asked armed services committee member adam smith about that, next. , next you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today.

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avoid a catastrophe with just days to spare. president biden today will sign him to law a two-year budget agreement extending the debt ceiling before monday's default deadline. in an oval office address last night, the president praising the bipartisan efforts that helped pass the plan in both the house and senate following weeks of tough negotiations. >> no one got everything they wanted, but the american people got what they needed. i want to commend senator, speaker mccarthy. he and i, we and our teams, we were able to get along and get things done. the final vote in both chambers was overwhelming.

for more -- far more bipartisan than anyone thought was possible. >> joining me right now is what you to congressman adam smith. the democratic ranking member are all coming back. good to see you. how strong it's the level of bipartisanship in the votes? that's it at all lay the groundwork for future efforts? how much credit do both president biden and speaker mccarthy kept for this? >> now, i think it is a very positive sign. one of five biggest worries, on the republicans take over congress, was the house, i should, say this is by the government between the white house and the house and the undue influence of the far-right republicans would make it difficult for us to basically function, to pass a budget. to a void of government shutdown, or a continued resolution, or perhaps, avoid default. in this agreement, avoiding the fault puts us on path to pass the appropriations bill. spot the government, go forward

in a normal process. it was an entirely positive sign in the great credit to president biden. he said, when he ran for office, he was going to work with whoever he had to work with to get things done. over two plus years, he has proven that. frankly, i didn't think he was able to get this agreement on, and he did. >> really? you didn't think he was able to get this done? >> now, here's, well, i doubted it. i told people this and i was wrong. i'm happy to be wrong. i didn't think that speaker mccarthy would give this much. i didn't. i thought he would feel like he was controlled by the far-right. bravo in the rules committee was 76, and one of the far-right people, congressman matt, e voted with mccarthy. the other didn't. if all three hadn't voted with mccarthy? this thing was down, because of the deal that speaker mccarthy had to cut to become speaker in the first place. how much influence will chip roy have over this process? he came that close to having

enough to torpedo the whole thing. i doubt speaker mccarthy's ability to do that. >> that's the gop side. on the flip side, what about the fellow house democrats who voted against the bill? do you understand their position? >> i understand it. i disagree with it. but, look, the impediment to get to get the old on was always going to be the majority. that's why i was focused on that. but speaker gets to decide what comes up for a vote in the house, not the minority party. so, that's what had me worried. >> is there a way for democrats to recoup at all what they might have lost in the compromise? >> some parts of it. look, that one piece of compromise i didn't particularly like was that permitting reform. it doesn't do enough to help the transmission needs. i didn't support approving that mountain valley pipeline. but on the money side? we'll see. the other aspect of this is it's not really binding. the appropriations committee

will go and they will determine how much to spend with a discretionary budget for fy 24, and if they wanted to go off the agreement before people, senators, hawks and the republican party talk about up the defense numbers, we still have to fight that battle. but by and large, i think this is the parameters for what we are going to spend in the next two years, next to budget cycles. >> right. so, after the chinese, as we switch gears here, and this really declined an invitation to meet with defense secretary austin in singapore, but counterparts have actually now briefly spoken. spokesperson saying that two leaders shook hands, but there was no substantive exchange there. but it comes, as you, know after a chinese fighter jet flew directly in front of the nose of a u.s. reconnaissance plane in international territory, or with the south china sea. it happened last weekend. secretary austin addressing it while in japan earlier. >> the provocative intercepts

of our aircraft and also our allies aircraft, that's very concerning, and we would hope that they would alter their actions. but since they haven't yet, i'm concerned about, at some, point having an incident that could very, very quickly spiral. >> what about you? how concerned are you about a possible incident and where communications and relations are with china right now? >> i'm very concerned about it. look, china is a global power. they are a global economic power. they are a rising global military power. they are not acting like one. they are acting like a bully trying to push their way around the world. they are not talking with us. they are doing things like putting our aircraft for no good reason. that worries me. look, china, as i said, or a global power. we're going to have to deal with them. we are going to have to work with them. i absolutely am confident the world is big enough for the both of us. right now, they are stiffing

us. they won't have these basic conversations. i forget if it was president biden or jake sullivan who said yesterday, about the nuclear arms race, we need to be talking about arms control with china. they are refusing to have that dialogue. we have to talk. we have certainly, differences of opinion on a wide range of issues and potential places of conflict. we need to discuss those, so we avoid stumbling into an actual conflict. china is refusing to do that. that's a big problem. >> completely legitimizes your concerns right there. let me ask you, sir, before we let you go, about the bookie published this week. it is called for all of you, lost and broken, my journey back from crippling, rather, from chronic pain and crippling anxiety. talk about a challenge for you to endure. i have to say, you've always been so gracious to come on our show every time we ask. had i had no idea you are dealing with this. what's the message you want readers to take away from your book? >> a couple of things. first of all, i went through a very deep anxiety problem that

started in 2013 and lasted about six years. at the same time i, had three hip surgeries, i had chronic pain, i had to go to a whole bunch of doctors and providers to try to figure this out. number one, our health care system needs to work number one for people. it's very difficult to find your corrective diagnosis and correct treatment -- >>, particularly on mental health. second, there's still a stigma against mental health. it's getting better. a lot of people have talked about it. it's becoming more of an open conversation. but a lot of people don't seek treatment because they are concerned if people know they have a mental health problem, they won't be able to keep their jobs or keep relationships that they have. we need to reduce that stigma. and lastly, as difficult as my journey was, and i have made mistakes along the way, it wasn't necessarily smart about how i saw at health. i didn't know what it was dealing with. i had never experienced that level of anxiety. i took too many medications too quickly, i bounced around from one provider to the next, but the big message is, there is help out there. certainly, for mental health

issues, for anxiety, for depression, you can find help and you can get better. you can learn better how your mind works. so, seek that help. be open and honest about it, and things can get better. i want to tell my story to help hopefully, other people realize they can pursue those options to get better. >> i'm so glad you wrote this book. a for effort. thank you for putting it out there with such candor and honesty. i appreciate it, representative adam smith. good to see you, my friend. the latest on ultra classified documents also could put the president in his latest legal peril. the audiotape says it all, a former trump lawyer made some new comments about it. msnbc -- 's you're going to hear his interesting take, next. g take, next you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network,

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donald trump classified document investigation, one of my next guest tweeted this. the trump legal team says, they did not find a classified doc on iran, but was that because, a, got returned to neera.

the, it got seized by fbi. see, it didn't exist, and trump lied about having such a dark on the tape, he just wanted meadows to trash milley. here's former trump lawyer -- . >> it's clear from the reports about this, he was upset about things he said publicly about him. pushing back on that. he said, essentially, he's lying, i have a document to prove it. but i can't show it to you, because it's classified. was that really a bluff? was that a real document? unless they can match it up in the document -- >> when you say wasn't a bluff, just to be clear, you're saying your best offense that he was lying about the document? >> possibly. >> joining me now -- political investigations reporter from the guardian, and jordan, reuben amateur b c deadline legal blog. writer and former prosecutor with the manhattan d.a.'s office. welcome, guys, hugo, you first. here it's quite the range of defense options they are

outlining from trump's team today. how plausible are these arguments? >> look, we understand, from people close to trump world, that the lawyers did identify an argument that had been returned to the national archives. that was classified at the -- level. and referenced iran. from what i understand, that document matched what trump was saying on this recording, from july 2021, about 67 70%. not exactly sure that this is the one in the same document. the trump references on the tape. so, there's now this question of, did trump actually make the entire thing up? and was he, as his lawyer said, completely bluffing? that would throw open a whole new set of issues for both the special counsel, but also potentially, trump. >> jordan, if trump was bluffing about the document, is that a reasonable defense? >> well, i don't think so.

the whole thing about this it goes to trump's mindset. it shows that he knows, at the very least, there are restrictions on sharing classified information. so, whatever the truth is about what he's saying here, admitting his awareness, it blows up his bogus notion of being able to classify whatever he wants. it also provides a potential motive, and a way to tell a jury, a story. that this is someone who's willing to use classified information in this way. so, it helps to tell that story, even though motive isn't an element of the crime. it can help explain why trump might have taken documents, even if it's not this one, it shows his mindset, regarding the entire case. >> in terms of, that the a mindset, you reported trump regretted, in fact, not to classify the iran document, referred to in the recording. is it because he wanted to use it in his war of words with general milley? >> so, you see this is become very interesting, because on

the tape, from the readout that we got, trump said something to the effect of, you know, i would show you, but the document is classified. i should've declassified it, but because i didn't, i can't show you. this discussion about whether or not trump's comments suggest he knew his limitations about sharing classified documents, sure. but the trump legal team has never really thought about that as an actual defense. this is really what trump has been saying publicly, that's what the calmest him have been pushing publicly. the lawyers are aware that foreign espionage church to move forward, the prosecutors have to show that the documents at issue our national defense information. it's not to be whether it's classified or not. so, i think they're much more focused on, that -- then about iran from 2021, or even before, would still be national defense information. >> jordan, one of trump's former white house lawyers, ty called, says a device for trump to be, work something out with jack smith. might this recording provide

the nexus to prove trump's intent, how do you see the situation, right now? >> i see the situation as trump would want to work something out. i don't think that's going to be an option for him. even before this latest evidence of this tape came out, this latest reporting about this tape, they're gonna be charges that could be brought against trump. a way to look at this latest reporting, no potential evidence, is really icing on the cake on top of that. so, i think that this could certainly make things worse for trump, and he would want to work something out, but i don't know how much of an option that's going to be for him at this point. because the time to help himself would have been well the government has been trying to get this information. so, that leads into the fact that trump's obstruction is going to be a really big problem for him. >> hugo, real quick, -- as been identified as a key player the mastication. who is she? and how did she become such an important witness for the doj? >> so, margot martin --

is a press aide who worked on the campaign previously, was a wrangler oppress wrangling from the white house core, when trump was in office. so, she was one of the people that went down to trump at the end of the administration to mar-a-lago, and regularly reporting trump's discussions -- because trump didn't discuss journalist in general to report what he said correctly, so she would be making these tapes. this tape is now at the center of as we discussed, trump's mindset, vis-à-vis these documents. it's not clear how big of a role she necessarily plays, she did get pulled before the grand jury, firmly and what we understand, she was asked about the tape before she went in. the special counsel clearly had this before she testified. that's the extent of her role. >> all, right understood, guys, gonna have to cut the short. jordan and hugo, thank you for that. we have this breaking news we're taking right now to the white house, embassies -- is this official?

>> it is official, alex. after weeks of public negotiations, of capitol hill people coming here, to the white house represent him from the white house, going to capitol hill, the president today signed the debt limit mail behind closed doors it was no big ceremony, no big event, we just got a press release in an email saying he signed, it in the statement he says, quote, thank you to speaker mccarthy leader jeffries, leader schumer, and leader mcconnell for their partnership. bipartisanship, as we have in the president last night, was such a big part of making this happen. nobody, neither side, got exactly what they wanted in this bill. each side did end up making it work, of course, washington loves to work close to the deadline. this happens just about 48 hours before the next day, secretary treasury, janet yellen, saying u.s. woodward out of money. we are not able to pay our bills if we hadn't gotten this done by monday. he signed the bill, and, so it's all said here from the white house, alex? >> oh, please. pushing it up to the deadline, the 11th hour. that is par for the course it would appear.

anyway, glad to dunnville, it is the art of compromise. all right, thank you so much, gary grumbach appreciate that. one of the biggest mysteries to that spike in orca tax on small boats could be these attacks might be coordinated? we'll have some answers, next. e answers, next.

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i have people come up to me all the time and ask me, "does it really work?" and all i have to say is, "here i am. it works." my advice for everyone is to go with golo. it will release your fat and it will release you. a recent series of frightening attacks by orcas, better known as killer whales, on boats off the coast of spain and portugal, has both sailors and scientists baffled. here's part of a report by nbc's josh lederman on the mistreat serious rise of these incidents. >> it's part of a wave of orca attacks, at least three boats sinking in these recent weeks. researchers saying orca encounters in the area have been increasing since 2020. more than 20 interactions recorded just this month. last year, 207. including this one, in the strait of gibraltar. an orca scene chewing on a piece of the boat. now, marine researchers are

asking, why? >> we're gonna ask that question right now, joining me is wildlife conservationist and documentarian and a good friend of ours, jeff core when. jeff, here's the good news. no serious injuries to include so far, unless you include the votes does this behavior described in the nbc news piece, was there any suggestion, these attacks may be coordinated between pods of workers? >> well, good afternoon to you, my dear friend alex. greetings from beautiful belize in central america. we're watching an amazing conservation exhibit. let's get to the coast of spain, what is this curious and potentially treacherous behavior? alex, as we know, orcas or -- wales, incredibly intelligent creatures. they learn from their environment, this is a learned discovered behavior. likely the result of a traumatic event. we think that this dominant female lead of this pod, this orca, named white gladys, had a

catastrophic traumatic event with a ship. we know that a number of these sailboats have actually hit these whales. so, we think she was hit, she learned from that behavior, she is associating these boats as danger, and she's teaching this behavior to other members of the pod. >> that is absolutely stunning. teaching it because, you know, hoping that they'll avoid this kind of accident injury again. >> because they're smart. >> well, yeah, they are very smart. let me play some incredible video, you're familiar with, it you shared with us. this is of north and linick wales, off the new england coast, apparently on the verge of extinction, jeff? you can see one of them here, it's caught in fishing nets. look at that. many of these wills are out of existence now, they've been caught, how many are there? what's endangering them? i'm guessing a lot of threats, human caused, whether it's global warming, run-ins with fishermen in boats. what's this about, what's happening? >> well, alex, this is the big

million dollar serious conundrum that no one is talking about enough. according to -- which is the international fund for animal welfare, they have the state-of-the-art research boat caused the song of the whale, that's riding up our coast right now. they've got a research station in a marine rescue center, right off the tip of the cape. then with their partners, like noah, have discovered that this species has now collapsed. it is on the verge of extinction. alex, 340 survived, and they produced only 11 offspring. this year that are surviving. that can't allow the species to carry to through the future. why would, what's happening? alex, they're migrating out from their winter waters off the coast of florida, they're coming up, they're getting hit by container ships. alex, just yesterday, two whales washed up i think along the coast of new york. two adult humpbacks, with catastrophic compression injuries from a ship. they're getting entangled in ghost nets in fishing gear, we're seeing that footage right

here, and the cherry on this extinction sunday, alex, they get to maine, maine is the fastest warming body of water on the planet from climate change. so, they have to work twice as hard to get half as much. they don't get the reward when they migrate up to feed. all of this together makes this right will extinction storm. and we're not doing enough about it. within our lives, something doesn't change right now, we're gonna lose this species. >> jeff, i'm so glad you're bringing attention to this. they're beautiful creatures, extraordinary creatures, in fact. thank you so much, my friend, very good to see. we'll bring you back soon. meantime, everyone, that's gonna do it for me on this edition of alex witt reports, as you get tomorrow. one pm eastern. my friend yasmin vossoughian continues our coverage right now. now. >> hey, everybody, good afternoon