the federal government. that expectation of loyalty to him in service of the constitution was a scourge on his presidency right from the beginning. six years ago this, week the former fbi director james comey appeared before the senate intelligence committee to justify partly about his abrupt firing after opening investigations into donald trump's campaign of possible collusion with russia. he told a panel about a meeting that he had had with trump just one week after his inauguration. during which the president told the fbi director quote i need a loyalty. i expect a loyalty. trump soon appointed christopher wray to replace comey but trump soured on ray and floated the possibility of firing him as well. according to politico quote trump's ire and ray was episodic. flaring up whenever the low-key fbi chief crosses radar. congressional testimony in russia always a sensitive subject could provoke trump's anger. so could race pronouncements on election security or a defenses of the foreign intelligence

surveillance act. allow the former president blamed for enabling democrats supposed spying on his 2016 campaign. as you know, ray outlasted the trump administration and remains in this position as fbi director to this day. he remains under intense scrutiny not just by the former president but also by trump's powerful republican allies in congress. even the florida governor ron desantis to trump's main rival for the 2024 republican nomination has vowed to fire wray on day one if you were to become president. >> trump's expectation of loyalty from others within the federal government continue toward his tenure, and continues to cause problems for him to this day. according to the new york times, special counsel jack smith's other trump investigation, the one involving january six in the efforts to overturn the election is reviewing the events surrounding the event of crabs. -- he released a statement that the 2020 elections were, quote,

the most secure in american history, which was an assertion that was in direct opposition to trump's unfounded assertion that the election was stolen from him. but despite all of, that trump is unchanged. he has not been humbled by the handful of ongoing criminal investigations targeting him, instead, as he embarks on another run for the white house and remains the front runner for the republican at nomination, he is emboldened to get back into office and purge the federal government of the people who are investigating him. according to new reporting by austin soup saying in rolling stone this week, trump and his team have been working to identify the fbi agents and other justice department personnel who have been involved in those investigations with the intention of dismissing them should trump win the presidency again. and among the list of people that trump would fire at the outset of a possible second term is christopher wray, the man that trump himself tapped to become the fbi director back in 2017. joining me now, kimberly atkins store, senior columnist for the boston globe opinion. she is also a columnist for the

emancipator, co-host of the sisters in law podcast, an msnbc political analyst. also with, this is another member of the sisters in law podcast. joyce vance, former u.s. attorney also msnbc contributor and columnist. good morning to both of you, thank you for being with us. joyce, let's start with the jack smith investigation and the news that the grand jury is resuming something this week. we don't know what, but we are always trying to read the tea leaves as to what this means about timing of possible indictments, what do you make of, if anything? >> right, it is tough to read the tea leaves here based on what we know. because of this grand jury could be coming back into session to hear evidence from additional witnesses, to tie down some details, to take returns of service from subpoenas that have been previously issued. or, this could be the week. this jury could be coming back into session to consider possible indictments against donald trump and maybe others. and i think this is one of those moments where we will simply have to wait to find out

what their worth is. >> i want to talk about this rolling stone reporting, it follows on stuff we have heard. we have heard donald trump himself say that i am your retribution, the idea that he is making a list of people to fire. what do you make of that? how much of that is the thing that a president would do, maybe they don't tell authority that they're going to come in and obviously replace political appointees. i, or is this more sinister? >> yeah, i think two things are going on here, ali. i think, on the one thing, we know that trump really abhors anyone who does not show him complete fealty. and he is rich tribute of. so he would fire somebody who does not believe in him, or completely supportive. we saw that in the case of james comey. so i think some of this is just, deeply, deeply petty. but i also see a greater, more dangerous aspect here in that trump is pushing a part of the republican parties base that

distrust the establishment, that believe that there is some deep state against those, including trump, who have their interests at heart. that is completely false, of course. but that narrative is strong and irresistible, politically. and i think by coming in and firing people, he is only underscoring that. he is shoring up this antiestablishment part of the republican base that he, and others as well, really need to win elections right now. >> joyce, you tweeted about that rolling stone story, you wrote a tweet and said that if law enforcement officials were doing their job and a new trump regime, then really who will be? no. one because in a country taken over by a cult personality, you never know by any given day if you're going to run afoul of the leaders winds. but trump's sites aren't set exclusively on the doj. he has gone beyond, that promising at the top of his list for revenge and retribution campaign against federal employees whose loyalty is to the constitution, not trump, is reinstating schedule

f. i understood that until the last few, words schedule f. >> so, this is trump's vision for the future of the federal bureaucratic service. it is a mistake to confuse bureaucracy and deep state. because most of the bureaucracy is maligned as it is, consists of career professionals who do their job, day, in and day out without regard to who is in the white house. and they are the folks who keep the services that are essential to all of our lives afloat. what trump has proposed is a new way of resolving employment situations that would permit him to, essentially at will, fire people long term, career civil servants, and replace, them with his own people. in other words, this is the sort of loyalty -- asked from comey at writ large, and essentially what he is trying to do is to make people afraid to take positions that are contrary to his. you don't want to be a cybersecurity expert and say the elections are safe, because you will lose your job in

trump's new america. >> there is the fear of losing your job, can, but there is possibly the deeper fear like a guy like chris craps won't say the truth, because the truth is unpopular, and the counter to that is that this retribution campaign sometimes it's firing and sometimes it's prosecutions, sometimes it's audits. we've seen another countries this could go down a very dangerous road. >> it really could we have seen in this country what can happen when you have people who are leaders who misuse the rails of our democracy, the levers of our democracy, for their own personal benefit. it can lead to disasters, like we saw essentially on january 6th and what this is deeply disturbing, it also keeps out people who want to serve. people who have an interest in having civil service as a career, from joining, if they believe that there will be a loyalty test to trump in order to do so. it makes the entire government

from top to bottom less responsive to the needs of the american people, and less protective of our democracy. >> joyce, how did this move from donald trump's need for personal loyalty, which we have all known about for a long time, anybody who is right about donald trump knows that is how he rolls. in two republicans in congress supporting these things, including the deepening, particular something called the deep state, but recently, the last, week the fbi, the call for the defunding of the, fbi there are people across the political spectrum who don't like the fbi, didn't like jim comey, don't like christopher wray. but that is entirely different than saying that the fbi needs to be defunded. >> yeah, it makes no sense, because we all remember when democrats called to reform police that was labeled as defunding the police, and there was outrage by republicans. but now the republicans have come forward with this blatant proposal to defund the fbi, and the reason, of course, is

wrapped up in trump's animosity for multiple investigations that have been conducted into him and his businesses. look, we are either a rule of law country, or we are not. we either believe that no man is above the law, including the former president, or we do not. an increasing it is clear that the republicans are not only no longer the party of law in order, they aren't even a rule of law. party it is deeply disturbing. you know, i think we all keep hoping that there will be a course direction, that there will be some sanity amongst senior leaders in the republican party, but that has not materialized. >> the thing, kim, is if you look at the republican presidential race right now, you have donald trump, pretty much a 50%. and then you've got rhonda santas at 25%, who is promising to not do anything differently than donald trump on this front, although pretty much three quarters of the republican base at the moment is looking at supporting one of these two guys. not somebody who thinks that all of this is nonsense.

>> and i think, to some extent, ali, any candidate in the republican field right now has to embrace some aspect of this if they think they're going to part of the electorate that they need to win. you have a part of the electorate that makes up the republican party, that is anti establishment, that is distrust government, including federal law enforcement. you have an aspect that believes that other traditional values that they grew up with, cisgendered, and heterosexual, are under attack. that is why you are seeing these things like anti-trans bans. you have this electorate, these voters, that are being appealed to and so you are seeing a lot of it in this anti establishment anti government deeply distrustful idea that that is a part of the republican brand is something that you will hear not from trump and desantis but you hear from other candidates to. >> and waiting for somebody who has some other idea about how

to be a republican and conservative and not be those things. thank, you both of your jaw is -- joyce vance, former united states attorney for the state of alabama, and kimberly atkins, senior columnist for the boston globe, opinion an msnbc political analyst. still, ahead i am velshi, china's latest provocation into taiwan strait. a warship coming just 450 feet from colliding with the u.s. destroyer,, plus a complex supreme court ruling that is both a victory for land owners and a blow to environmental protection efforts. and it familiar face all the way from ukraine. i met up with our friend, victor slush, -- here in new york, don't miss out. , don't miss out. she gets exactly what she wants and only pays for what she needs. she picks only the perks she wants and saves on every one! all with an incredible new iphone. get iphone 14 pro on us when you switch. it's your verizon.

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with the latest example of chinese provocation in the region. a chinese warship came within forward 50 ship of an american destroyer doing exercises during a joint u.s. canadian

mission in the region. the latest in a series of close call incidents between the u.s. and chinese military in recent days including this, a chinese fighter jet, cutting in front of a u.s. american reconnaissance plane, flying over the south china sea. what the defense department calls, quote unnecessarily aggressive maneuvers. msnbc news news monica alba has the latest. >> ali, good morning. this is just the latest act of aggression in an already heightened environment in the south china sea, with the senior u.s. offense the fischel say that it is dangerous behavior, saying despite some progress of diplomatic level, actions speak louder than words. >> tensions high this morning between the u.s. and china, after another close call involving both militaries. this video, showing the moments a chinese warship, seen here on the left, came within 150 yards of an american destroyer in the taiwan straight. shot by canadian news outlet traveling aboard a nearby vessel, during a rare joint

u.s. canada mission in the region. u.s. officials sat overnight and said that the chinese ship executed maneuvers in an unsafe manner, and its actions violated the maritime rules of the road. the incident comes just days after chinese tried or -- fighters it flew in front of a u.s. jet, in what the pentagon calls an unnecessarily aggressive maneuver. defensive pretoria, lloyd austin, while traveling in singapore, friday said that the u.s. will not be deterred by china's unprofessional behavior at sea, or in the air. >> we do not seek conflict, or confrontation. i we will not flinch in the face of bullying. >> the u.s. china relationship has been strained following the u.s. chinese spy balloon going across much of the country earlier. with secretary austin speaking out after briefly greeting his chinese counterpart. they are first face-to-face with the u.s. after they seek to reestablish high-level talks.

-- >> it is not a reward, it is a necessity. a cordial handshake over dinner is no substitute for a substantive engagement. >> -- made a secret trip to beijing in may, his first trip to china and emphasizing the importance of maintaining open lines of communication intelligence channels between the two countries. which president biden predicted at the g7 last month will happen soon, despite the spy balloon fallout. >> i think you're going to see that begin to thaw very shortly. >> now for its, part china called the u.s. canadian joint selling a deliberate provocation in the first place, arguing its forces monitored the ships and handle the situation in accordance with the laws and regulations. ali? >> monika, thank you for. that nbc's monica alba at the white house. last year was a clean air act. this year the queen water act, the super majority gutted two crucial environmental laws in

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try boost® today. >> if family from idaho, the sack, it's wanted to build a house on property privately owned. but that land had been designated as weapons by the epa, so the sack it took to the supreme court. now, on its face, this might not seem like much, but sackett versus the environmental protection agency is a complex case calling into question the rights of property owners, and the very definition of wetlands, and different types of waterways and of course the questions the breath of the epa's authority, last month the court ruled that the sackett family should be able to build on their land but the way the decision was written basically re-writes the clean water act, it completely changes a 50-year precedent of epa authority over waterways, and actually applies a new definition of waterways and wetlands altogether, wetlands are incredibly important ecosystems, not only for the thousands of species

that rely on weapon environments for habitat, but also because weapons act as natural filters and sponges for the environment healthy wetland system acts as a natural water quality improvement, it prevents shoreline erosion it protects against flooding environmental groups estimate that this really removed more than 100 million acres of privacy protected wetlands from the epa's authority, a local conservation group argued against the court decision saying, simply, quote, it goes against science, last year the supreme court again, ruled against the epa in west virginia versus the epa, that focus specifically on the clean air act in the epa's ability to carbon lay carbon emissions from power plants, was all, three with all judges dissenting. in her, dissent justice elena kagan wrote the quote, that the court does not have a clue about how to address climate change, get it to appoint itself other than the expert agency, the decision-maker on climate policy.

i cannot think of many things more frightening, and. quote >> last, year the court got into the clean air act, and this year, concurrent last month justice kagan has won it by -- the court substitutes on ideas about policy making for congresses. the court will not allow the clean water act to work, as congress instructed. >> tomorrow, june 5th, is world environment day. millions of people around the world for a singular mission of protecting and restoring the health of the planet. world environment day is recognized on june 5th to mark the united nations very first climate summit, which was held in 1972, 51 years ago tomorrow. the clean water act was established that same year in response to rampant toxic pollution that was poisoning our waterways and killing fish and making water undrinkable. lakes on swivel, and our eco systems on safe. and in the 51 years since the clean water act was established, remarkable progress has been

made in the health and safety of waterway throughout the country. there is work to be done, and it seems to me that having subject experts, scientists, ecologist, hydrologists, having those people make decisions about their area of expertise seems like common sense. applying science to our decision to be the minimum. joining me now is malcolm indiana, she is a new president and ceo of the wildlife conservation society. she served as the general counsel for the natural oceanic and atmospheric administration under president obama, she was appointed the special envoy for biodiversity and water resources, making her the first ever u.s. diplomat designated to advocate for global biodiversity. she is also an old friend of the show, monica, it is good to see you back again. >> thanks, ali. it is great to be with you today. >> look, we have been off a lot here. on one hand, we have made progress in the last 50 years. on the other hand, we continue to get warnings about the state of this planet, including some that suggest we have tipped the balance too far to even recover.

and then we've got things like this. we've got the supreme court, which is not an expert, it is supposed to be an expert on, lawn on expert on climate, gutting the ability of the epa and other government agencies to regulate the stuff. tell me where this all stands for you? >> where the stands for me is a real warning to people all over this country that they are going to be feeling the impacts of this decision themselves. this is a big win for big industry and for big farms, big. but it is a big loss for communities, and for people, who will be feeling the effects of this. because these sponges are really important. these wetlands are the way that we protect ourselves from floods, and we know that flooding is really a problem now, not just because of climate, but because of the way that we've engineered our laws, and the way that the supreme court has interpreted our law is just plain against, it is plain language, which is not what they are supposed to do.

so it is a real problem, and people will feel the effects, just like the court decision last wrong to clean air act. people feel the effects, they will not be able to breathe as well, and our water will definitely be less clean because we have fewer of these. filters these wetlands are really important infrastructure, natural infrastructure that works really well. so it is a shame, and it did not to have to be. president bush and president bush before him, the two president bush were very interested in conserving wetlands. so, you know, not that long ago, even republicans were there in the fight to save weapons. >> you talk about the way we engineer our rivers, the way we build the beautiful imagery of weapons on the screen, but in fact, we have decided in many cases, the last hundred years, that weapons of the enemy, that you pave on, them you build on them, you don't protect them. and now we've got problems in terms of our overbuilding. not the natural infrastructure that mile -- the actual construction, we saw headline as we could said that

arizona is limiting construction around phoenix because it's water supply is dwindling. this is just another example, the pact that we took a desert, we decided we're all gonna live in, and lots and lots of people, and we figure out, hey we are going to figure out there isn't enough water for these people. >> that is the honest to goodness truth, ali. we are paving over paradise. we have a wonderful, natural, ability in nature, and the environment to protect ourselves from some of these forces, and yet we continue to destroy it. and in fact, what president bush the first once said was we would never have a another part of wetlands, so it is understandable that people might want to build any particular place, but then they ought to rebuild the wetlands somewhere else, so we don't lose the benefit of that. we never put those benefits on our balance sheet, but we pay for it over, and, over and over again. whether it is because we want to find new ways to bring water to people, or we need to re-engineer our coastlines in order to be more or have the

ability to respond to storms and to keep ourselves protected from storms, it is a real shame. nature is important, it is important to our economies, the money that we will spend to make up for this decision will come off of the public's back. it will be something that we will have to work for, and i understand that small landowners were frustrated by the old rules. but these new rules don't make it any better for anyone who is in harm's way, in waters, way anyone who's had their basement flood, understand that you can push water. you can move it, but it is going to go somewhere else. >> monica, thank, you let's make this a more regular thing, because this is the most urgent matter of our time. monica medina, is the presidency of the wildlife conservation society. former assistant secretary of state for the bureau of oceans and international environmental and scientific affairs. all, right up next, from the frontlines new york city, my reunion with my friend, victor slouch, senior sergeant and

military chaplain for the army who i first met just miles from the front lines in eastern ukraine, recently had the privilege of meeting him once again during a trip he made to america, meant to garner support for his country. support for his country. i'll always take care of you. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ be by your side... ♪ ♪ i'll be there... ♪ i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program.

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after a missile struck near the central city of dnipro. authorities searched the remains of a two storey building in search of others who were trapped beneath the rubble, and that rescue effort is ongoing. that two-year-old girl now becomes one of roughly 500 children who have been killed over the course of this war, which is now in its 16th month. the latest attack comes after president volodymyr zelenskyy says it is now ready to launch a long awaited counteroffensive to reclaim a tally in -- that mean thousands of troops maybe more might be sent to the frontlines including someone i've gotten to know more over the last few months victor spot is -- i met him back in february, i was introduced to him, nadia, who took it as him to help ukrainians in poland's, people who had fled from the war. moscow, as you may remember, joined me on this program while i was in poland's capital,, warsaw just weeks after the

start of the full scale invasion of ukraine. there she told me how much she missed and worried about her father, victor. >> thank you for coming here. >> thank you, thank you. >> we will pray for your father, and i'm sure he is going to be fined. >> thank, you for you supporting us, thank. you it is very important is important for my family and my friends. i know i'm not alone. >> you are not alone. you are not alone for sure, thank you for being here. >> can i hug you, thank you. >> both last year and her father, victor, are doing well. after getting to know both of them, it became clear that in this family, serving once people is a foremost principle and an effort for the support ukraine victor -- to travel to the nine states in hopes of raising money awareness for the. -- >> i first met victor back on

the front line in february. i was there to mark the one year anniversary of the russianization, victor is there with a group of military chappells. their goal is to provide guidance, religious counsel, two soldiers in battle for. >> the most important thing to convey to the soldiers to remain human, so that in the end, they would not identify who attacked us, you see the senseless cruelty, when you see these atrocities, the most important thing is to help the soldiers remain human. the thing about ukraine's resistance is that it is as much a bottom-up exercise as it is a war. ukrainian citizens have taken it upon themselves to play what little part they can to win the war, and that is how i met victor's blocked a second time, here, in america. >> nice to see you, welcome to america. >> he traveled to the united states hoping to raise awareness of the atrocities being committed by russia. and to raise desperately needed funds for things as basically as trucks and trailers to

remove and repair vehicles damaged in the war. he stopped in several cities across the country, the last of which was here in new york. a pastor by trade, victor preached one of the city's largest russian speaking churches in brooklyn which hosts hundreds of parishioners of both hundreds of russian and ukrainian descent. unlike the war oversees, this two groups are not at all in harmony. i was unite with each of their, in brooklyn's coney island. >> how is your trip in so far? >> translator: absolutely cool. after the sacramento, came to los angeles, then i was in seattle, and from seattle, to you. i want people to hear the truth, when people hear the truth, they can evaluate it. >> to most people know the story that you are telling them? >> translator: if you have

truth, people can clearly evaluate the situation. when people see tens, hundreds, thousands of people died, they understand simply. this can only be understood by someone who knows the truth, the truth is that ukraine did not attack. >> victor, you and your fellow chaplain spent a lot of time with the soldiers on the front line. how are they doing? >> translator: it is very difficult, very, very hard. but the help of allies, the help of those people who are not indifferent to ukraine itself, and the principle of freedom, this is like a second breath for them already. but they are holding on. and thank god that there are those who are supporting them. >> support is what brought him to the united states, so i asked, him at the end of his trip, what message he most wanted to convey to the american people. >> translator: my message is for americans to continue to seek the truth. i like an americans that can solve problems in advance, and they take others problems as

their own. the bible, it says that prudent sees trouble and takes cover. let god save america, all americans, they are really wonderful people. thank you, that is the message. >> thank you. >> as i said, victor his brigade will soon be on their way back to the front lines in eastern ukraine as fighting has ramped up in recent weeks in the ukrainian counteroffensive is expected to launch. as for the money he raised while here in the united states, he told us that he used to buy vehicles for his brigade, and for local ukraine rehabilitation centers. as we say, we wish victor and his team and his family, [speaking non-english] , which means peaceful skies. next, we'll have south korea crane to the central african republic with a russian allied wagner mercenary force is actively exploiting the country's resources to fund its brutality, an extremely important report from nbc's richard engel, after the break. nbc' richard engel, after the break richard engel, after the break when your family actually wears it. ♪♪

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about the wagner group. it is a russian aligned mercenary force for hire. they've been fighting on moscow's behalf in eastern ukraine. that is not the only place the barbaric forces operating. nbc news chief foreign correspondent, richard engel, has this report. >> we talk a lot these days about russian must remarries from the wagner group, we are leading some of the fighting in ukraine, but that is not where they make their money. they do that in africa, especially in the central african republic, where they are exporting the minimal wealth. some of the world's poorest people. the central african republic is a failed state, torn apart by civil war. >> in the capital, bondi, i saw children starving to death at the only pediatric hospital. >> what's it like for you? as the director here, to see all of these cases. >> it upsets me. she says, mothers don't have money to buy food, and the children fall into this state.

>> they are young victims of africa's resource curse, desperately poor people living on land with vast untapped wealth. here, it is golden diamond, but it is not lifting people out of poverty. much of the riches are now flowing to russian mercenaries from the wagner group. russia's private army, known for its brutality in ukraine. look >> president putin's former caterer turned officer. and ukraine, wagner fights of the kremlin, it makes its money here. according to two western diplomats, a wagner extracts a half a billion dollars a year from this country, in gold, we are timber, and blood diamonds. this woman who asked us to conceal her identity for her protection, lived near the village of and awesome, where her husband was a gold miner. she told me how russian mercenaries drove the villagers away.

>> translator: they were beating people, whipping people, and chasing them away. when >> her husband and several others refused to be scared, they were executed. >> what do you think the russians want? is it cold, is it simple as that? >> translator: yes, they came for our wealth, and for our gold. but today, my children have a father. they don't have anything at all. >> working with the research group, the century, nbc news reviewed more than a dozen allegations of the wagner violence, including an end awesome. this was in dawson in 2019, before the russian takeover. an image taken this month shows the mine has expanded dramatically, now capable of generating on traceable profits. >> wagner was invited into the central african republic by the government to help crush a rebellion. the government, quickly became dependent on russian support. >> wagner even provides the personal security for the

president. >> mister president, it's a real pleasure, richard engel. what do you say about reports that allege that the russian forces will be brought in to help secure this country, have committed a abuses. >> translator: listen, we are responsible government, we have lost his country. we have set up a commission of inquiry to see if the facts reported in these reports are true. >> the government relies on wagner to survive, wagner pays itself in gold. the people are left starving. we reached out to prigozhin and he responded with a voice note, calling our questions provocative, and saying, in part, quote, you have received enough information. if by asking these questions you intended just to spit at me, then i suggest to come closer, and after that, try to figure out if it is your throat in my hands, or someone else. >> well, big things to nbc news

thanks to richard engel reporting. coming, up a new episode of msnbc's, the culture is featuring indigenous women premiers tonight at ten pm, but you will have to wait that long because out of the break, we are gonna get a sneak peek and talk to one of the remarkable woman who is featured in the film. >> i humbly ask permission to come onto your lands. >> everybody thinks that when people moved into america, it was empty. native people were here. we fed you. >> tomahawk chops, all these things, these are traditional things, these are inventions of white people in hollywood. >> i think there is an irrational fear that native americans want retribution. we only want quality. >> this is sadie, she's on verizon, where she has new my plan, which gets exactly what you want and only pace what she needs. she picks only the perks that she wants, all with an incredible new iphone. and iphone 14 pro on us, when you switch. it is your verizon. >> when everything hurts, you

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msnbc, it is the installment of the culture's indigenous women, a new film airing at ten pm eastern and streaming thereafter on peacock. msnbc contributor, alyssa, london leads a conversation with trail blazing native american women who each share how they have shown their strength in the face of adversity, to become the respective pioneers that they are. the guests include the emmy winning producer, jane myers, award-winning, actress amber mitt, thunder plus a one-on-one interview with the democratic congresswoman mary peltola, who in september, became the first alaska native elected to congress. here is a sneak peek. >> janai, i read, sometimes conflicted in what but --

bib to wear when you represent hammer throw? i've >> never been a superpatriotic person, or killed a celebrate fourth of july -- july, or america becoming america, because our history has never sat well with me, our upbringing. so everyone says, making a world team, getting to the usa, the red white blue-ism and be super proud of, which i understand, but for me, and how i represent myself and where i come from, so much more meaning in my journey would be to wear my tribal affiliation of commit to nation. >> and then being in separate tribe, and being in affiliated not american, that should be an option for me. that means so much more proud of resilience and strength for my people in my community than to wear usa. >> i know you are wearing a lot of native youth. >> joining me now is crystal echo hawk, a member of the party tribe, and one of the people featured in msnbc's the culture's indigenous woman. she is the founder executive director of illuminative the, and organizations edited to fighting bias and stereotype and racism against indigenous people, she is also the host of the podcast series, american

genocide, the crimes of native american boarding schools. crystal, thank you for being with us, tonight special is the last installment for the culture's series, it is what i am focusing on native women. but each episode highlights can accommodations of women of different races or cultures. we've had black women, latina, aapi women, and now indigenous women. what is in store tonight? >> thank you for having me, ali. it is just a really powerful conversation with some really extraordinary women. i was so honored to be included and, as you noted, the emmy award winning producer, jane, meyers and amber mitt thunder who broke streaming records last year with the debut of prey, the film. and just really remarkable women like delegate can't tiki, who is the cherokee nation's delicate to congress. so i think people are going to find out some interesting things about native americans, and also just to see that we, as native women, are like so many women across this country,

concern about our children, concerned about the environment, about representation, and i think a lot of things are going to resonate with audiences. >> i grew up in canada, where a long time ago, we learned that indigenous people would prefer to be referred to by their tribe, in many cases. one thing that comes up in this special's identity and what language non native people should use to refer to americas indigenous people. you specifically spoke about that. what is your take? >> we actually did a poll back in 2020, where we surveyed nearly 6000 native americans in 50 states and asked that very same question. in the top answer was people want to be identified by their tribe. so i am a citizen of the pony nation of oklahoma. i think when we talk about native americans overall, saying native americans or indigenous peoples is the most appropriate way, but i think it is so important for folks to know that native americans are not a monolith. there are 576 plus nations in this country. >> in addition to fighting

against biases and racism, your organization eliminated is to preventing the erasure of native people. and that might be an extreme term, but actually, some of the things that you are working on our real sub cultural erasures of lives. >> yeah, we did a poll back in 2017 in which we found that 78% of americans know little to nothing about native peoples. and 72% rarely or never encounter any information about native peoples. we dug deeper to look at some of the biggest systems of erasure in our entertainment in, media which our representation is less than 0.4%. but even then, nearly 90% of schools in the country don't teach about native americans passed 1900. so this is real erasure depending on where you're living in united states, some people are necessarily certain about whether or not native americans still exist. that is why, for example, tonight, the special that is airing here on msnbc is so important to remind native americans that not only are

native americans still here but we are doing extraordinary things, we are contributing to all sectors of the society and not just for our people but for all americans ask representative mary portola is representing the great state of alaska. >> i think it's interesting point you made, that on this show, we certainly cover this story. but, in teaching, you are right. people can probably give you some factoids about native americans in the 19th century, the 20th century, but everything that is happened in the last hundred years is probably lost on a whole lot of people. >> it really is, and it's not being taught in schools. so that's why so many conversations we talk now about what can and can't be taught in schools is so important. and that is one of another reasons why we decided to do the american genocide podcast on the native american born in history of united states. because the majority of americans never learn about it in school. and it is a really, really, violent, horrific, chapter of american history that started

in the 1800s all the way through the 1960s in which case the federal government, in partnership with religious institutions, took more than 100,000 children away from their families and place them into these institutions. they cut their, hair they were subject to physical, sexual, abuse. psychological abuse, and really, cultural genocide. because children were forbidden to speak languages or practice their cultural light ways. and this multi generational trauma that resulted is still impacting native americans today, get the majority of americans don't know that this was a political military policy, by the federal government, in order to dispossess native americans of their land. so when you walk anywhere the night states, you are walking on indigenous lands and that likely came as a result in part due to these boarding schools and our children being taken. >> crystal, thank. you thank you for the work you've done, and thank you for being part of this. crystal echo hawk is the founding director of the podcast series, american genocide, the cries of native american boarding schools. again, be sure to tune into

msnbc tonight at ten pm eastern for the debut of the culture's indigenous women. it is going to stream in the next day on peacock thank you so much for watching. catch me next saturday and sunday, 10 am to noon, don't forget that velshi is available as a podcast if you didn't get up enough to watch it, although you would probably have to get on the west coast early enough. it is free, where you get your podcast, and i do wear that vest when i do the podcast. stay right where you, are, inside with jen psaki begins right now. >> exclusive reporting from nbc news, breaking overnight. the grand jury in the trump classified documents probe is expected to meet this week following a hiatus. as former fbi director james comey once said, lord i hope there are tapes but apparently special counsel jack smith does not have to hope because he has at least one recording of donald trump could be crucial evidence. coming up for us today as my