6th. but the really interesting thing is how to frame to voters who still believe in january 6th. he said do you think kamala harris should have the power to overturn the election in 2025 if republicans win? that's easy for voters to understand and say not. that's how trump is trying to do the dance around january 6th my role was not constitutional that donald trump was asking me to do. think about if kamala harris was asked to do the same. >> pence also said he would have no interest in pardoning any of the january 6th rioters which is noteworthy in the republican field right now. "morning joe" starts right now. you know, on the day of

january 6th, i issued a tweet demanding that people leave the capitol and end the violence. i said that those that failed to do that should be prosecuted to the fullest exat the present time of the law and i continue to believe that today. we cannot ever allow what happened on january 6th to happen again in the heart of our democracy. and i'll stand by the decisions and the due process of court in our laws. and i have no interest or no intention of pardoning those that assaulted police officers or vandalized our capital. they need to be answerable to the law. >> former vice president mike pence with one of the ways he is differentiating himself from his former boss. we'll have more from his campaign launch just ahead. it comes as the department of justice confirms what we all suspected. trump is the target of the classified documents investigation.

we'll get expert analysis on what it means for an indictment moving forward. plus, one of the pga's top players blasts the organization for its deal with liv golf. and parts of the northeast, my lord, looked like something out of an apocalyptic movie and still does, by the way. we'll get the latest time line from when the wildfire smoke from canada could finally clear out. but here in new york, crazy. you couldn't see a thing. you can taste it. it's just awful. good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it's thursday, june 8th. hi, joe. >> hi. i was going to ask you and willie to describe it going around because the pictures and the video you sent me, mika, really did look apocalyptic. >> that's the word. it looked and smelled and felt apocalyptic yesterday. the trend seems to me the

morning are okay and as the day goes on it gets worse. i went inside yesterday to do work, came out and it was orange, it smells like a campfire everywhere. it was worse yesterday than the day before. now you smell it inside, it's in the hallway of your apartment building or the breezeway when you walk into the building. it's real and it's had delays to flights, canceled tons of outdoor activities it's not safe for the kids, elderly or people with respiratory problems. these wildfires are expected to burn all summer. we might get a break this weekend but it's unclear if we see the end of it. >> yesterday afternoon was the worst. you couldn't see across the street. there was an orange hugh -- blame canada indeed. the yankee game had to get postponed last night. today is not supposed to be great either, a little bit

better. but then steady improvement friday, saturday, sunday. this is what other parts of the country go through a lot, this is news in the northeast, d.c. is going to be bad today. it's reality with fires like this becoming more common we have to get used to this. >> the actual science of this is at one point new york city's air quality was the worst in the world, i believe that was at some point yesterday. >> yes. >> and then today, late last night, second worst in the world. it's not good. we'll follow this. we have former u.s. senator and now an msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill on set with us here in new york. how are you doing? >> i'm fine, breathing in terrible smoke but other than that fine. also with us roger share of the presidency at vanderbilt

university. jon meacham is with us this morning. nbc news has learned former president trump's attorneys have been told that trump is a target of the justice department's investigation into the former president's handling of classified documents after leaving the white house. prosecutors told trump's attorneys about their client being a target in the probe during their meeting monday at the doj in washington d.c. that is according to two sources briefed on the meeting. that does not rule out the possibility that trump's attorneys already understood or they were told trump was a target prior to the meeting. a doj spokesperson declined to comment. the guardian reports federal prosecutors informed trump's lawyers last week that trump is part of the documents investigation and possible obstruction of justice. that is according to two people briefed on the matter.

so, joe, this slowly inches towards something for the former president. >> it does. and jon meacham i'm curious to get your thoughts, perspective on where we are right now. obviously in so many ways we are so far past where nixon was in '74. the depths of watergate, '73 and '74. including a complete lack of respect for the judicial system, which, you know, richard nixon had when the supreme court said turn the tapes over, nixon didn't even think about having the republicans attack the supreme court with commercials or, you know, try to intimidate them from doing their job. but, of course, that's something that is just something that's second nature for donald trump. >> yeah. the interesting thing about nixon is that after he broke the law, he followed the law.

and when al hague called him he have at san clemente -- he was at san clemente walking on the beaches in wing tips, which was he was attacked for. >> i thought it was a good choice. >> but hague calls him, he was the white house chief of staff at that point and nixon said is there any give in it? any error in it? ? it was unanimous and he said no. and that set in motion the last 14 days or so of that tragedy. with trump and this moment now, one of the questions we have, both legally and culturally is, because president nixon was pardoned by president ford in september of 1974, an act for which ford was excoriated in real time, celebrated 25 years later or so before he died in

2004, i think. there's rethinking about this now. because we have not held presidents and former presidents legally accountable in the way that arguably a democracy should. if no man is above the law, no man is above the law. and so, the question we have now is, what is the political effect of yet another potential indictment and then what is the -- what are the mechanics of going forward here? and to be fair, this is what mitch mcconnell and others eluded to when they -- when they declined to vote for that second impeachment, which would have barred trump from retaking federal office, they said let the legal process go forward. he wasn't directly eluding to the documents but, of course, the georgia case goes forward as

well. a lot to live with here. i think the real question that we all have to ask ourselves, and particularly those 14 voters who are in the middle in america, is do you want a -- do you want to re-elect someone with this overt contempt for the laws that are supposed to apply to all of us. >> claire, let's have you put on your prosecutor's hat if you would. when they tell attorneys that someone a potential target what does that tell you? >> tells you they're going to indict him. i'm not aware of many cases where someone got a letter before the feds decided they had sufficient evidence to go forward. that's the thing about the federal government, they don't have to do anything until they're ready. it's not like state prosecutors

doing violent criminals. >> does that mean they're ready? >> it means they're ready. it looks like to me they're doing something in if florida on a different track having to do with venue, which may be keeping pressure on witnesses that may be key to an indictment that i believe will come down in washington. but it's going to be really interesting and interesting politically. we don't know -- so far charging him with a crime has calcified his support with 30% of the party. now we have the 7 dwarves in the race, along with desantis, may turn out to be snow white, he likes white boots. i think snow white likes white boots. this is trump's treatment he would have this many republicans in the primary to siphon off voters and put him in the

driver's seat. this may be the first time in history, jon meacham can speak to this, we have a president with an ankle bracelet. >> certainly, in florida one of his -- one of his aides, taylor budowich who worked as a spokesperson. trump himself put out a statement saying i've not been told i'm going to be indicted. that's true. but he has now been told he's a target. and people i spoke to yesterday in the wake of the news they're bracing themselves, they think it could happen this week or next. it could be that fast for the indictment to come down. >> we'll talk about the politics of this in a second where mike pence is in the race now officially. first let's bring in legal analyst andrew weissman.

do you agree with claire these letters mean an indictment is coming here? >> absolutely. particularly since we're talking about a former president of the united states. it is legally permissible and possible to tell someone they're a target, issue a target letter and for them eventually not to be charged. but i think when you're talking about the former president, this is something that is complying sort of with a pro forma doj rule, it's just something that happens before you charge. i think in many ways it's not news. everyone has known, including the defense counsel, that donald trump has been the target of this investigation for quite some time. this is really a formality. and i think there's -- there's no question that he is going to get charged. i think it's just a question now of when and if it's going to be in florida or d.c. i think there's a really sort of

key open question, obviously, the specific nature of the charges, what the evidence is is obviously also something that we're all looking for. >> to the point of jurisdiction, "the washington post" reports that the justice department prosecutors are planning to bring a quote significant portion of any charges that may come out of the documents investigation in south florida and not washington d.c. that's according to people familiar with the matter. the paper reports the legal basis for such a move is the bulk of the conduct at issue in the investigation took place in the southern district of florida, specifically in and around mar-a-lago, which is in palm beach. that does not rule out the possibility of some charges being filed in the nation's capitol. so andrew, i -- obviously we'll just wait and see, but it seems to me that they're looking at this obstruction of justice, the movement of documents, who

drained the pool, things like that. >> absolutely. and this is one where legally the department of justice would be on safest grounds if it brought all of the potential charges in florida, because there clearly is constitutional venue for all of the charges there, absent some unusual facts that we're not aware of. but the issue of bringing the case there is sort of obvious because the jury pool is potentially better for donald trump obviously in florida than it would be in d.c. and also the judges in d.c. have far more experience dealing with classified documents cases. that's very much their bread and butter where it's going to be something much much newer to the vast majority of judges sitting in florida. so in terms of speed, you are likely to go to trial sooner if

the case were brought in d.c. but as you said, the reporting right now is that it's more likely that the department of justice is going to take the sort of legally more sound or less risky route of bringing the charges in florida. >> andrew, you and ryan goodman have written a piece in "the washington post" looking ahead to what we might expect if, in fact, the former president is indicted in a historic move. you have 11 things to look for here. i'll let you pick your most important couple but what should we expect if it does come down even later this week, potentially next week, what will you be looking for? >> one of the things that we've all been sort of speculating about is what exactly will they reveal about the nature of the documents? will they include in the charging document what exactly the former president took? just how significant was this information?

the other, obviously, is who is the judge that gets assigned to this. that, as we've seen already, can have a huge impact on the case and particularly on the speed of the case. a lot of people are very focused on whether this will go to trial prior to the nomination process in the republican party so the election is something where the american public knows what a jury has found. so the judge will be quite important there. i'm also going to be interested to see whether there are allegations that the former president disseminated the documents. whether he was just keeping them or whether as there is reporting he showed them to aides and visitors. so that would also make the case much more serious, if there are those allegations. >> absolutely. >> all right. nbc news legal analyst andrew wiseman, thanks so much. i appreciate it.

mika, it's fascinating seeing something over the last two days w've yet to see. that is republicans running for office actually starting to tell the truth or some of the truth about donald trump. we saw chris christie go there. and when i say "go there," i mean actually tell the truth about who donald trump is and the impact of the last seven or eight years. i must say, i didn't even expect mike pence to be as aggressive as he was yesterday. and i -- i think it may suggest that a lot of these candidates know something is coming down the pike against donald trump and that he's going to be in a far weakened state after this indictment. >> yeah. chris christie has been throwing some major truth bombs. he is extremely aggressive as he launches his campaign. former vice president mike pence launched his bid for the white house and made the announcement during a rally outside des

moines iowa yesterday afternoon and it happened on his 64th birthday. during his speech, pence made his most aggressive attack against donald trump to date. saying his former boss does not deserve to be back in the white house. >> january 6th was a tragic day, but thanks to the courage of law enforcement, violence was quelled and we reconvened the congress the very same day. to complete the work of the american people under the constitution of the united states. as i've said many times on that fateful day, president trump's words were reckless. they endangered my family and everyone at the capitol. what the american people deserve to know, that on that day president trump also demanded that i choose between him and

the constitution. now voters will be faced with the same choice. i chose the constitution. i believe that anyone who puts themselves over the constitution should never be president of the united states. and anyone who asks someone else to put them over the constitution, should never be president of the united states again. >> you no know, it's absolutely fascinating -- by the way, jon meacham, i have to say, you and me, i'm the baptist, we come from the protestant part of the faith where some people don't like converts. that's what our faith is built on. you know, john wayne, john wayne wants to convert to christianity

on his deathbed, amen. >> take him. >> take him. we'll take him, right. >> take him. you got to hunt where the ducks are, joe. >> exactly. and whether you get that duck early in the morning or late at night, you know, it just -- but it is fascinating that the thing i found about some people on the left since i've been aligned with them in a fight against anti-democratic forces in america, fascist forces in america, they'll look back and say you know he did this or that or the other back in da da da, we want no part of him. no, we throw open the church doors and say, brothers, sisters, come in. we want you. >> come on in. >> that's why people looking mike pence did -- yeah, mike pence did a lot of stuff we knocked him around hard for. but on january the 6th, he and

dan quayle may have helped save democracy. and yesterday he finally spoke truth to power. is this something to celebrate or is this something like to attack because he's had a bad record in the past? i like the conversion myself. even if it's a conversion for a day. >> absolutely. you know, one of the great lines in american literature is mark twain has tom sawyer say an evangelist came to town that was so good that even huck finn was saved until monday. i don't think it's to be attacked. vice president mike pence is an example of the interesting questions of the era. anyone who doubts the role of

constitutional fairs, mike pence is vital. had he not done what he did on january 6th, chaos would have unfolded over several days, possibly weeks, which would then have forced the congress to send the election to the house of representatives, which -- and the republicans had in the unit rule a majority and presumably then donald trump would have been elected president by the house of representatives. that was the chaos theory. if you think i'm making that up, that's what peter navarro and others laid out. that's what they wanted to do. mike pence stood in the breech. he gave a good speech yesterday but then i think someone else did this, maybe hailey did this. he didn't say this, but if trump is the nominee, he will support the nominee. so there's the whole era in a news cycle. there's courage, there's an example of courage under fire, and anybody -- there may be

center left folks who think you shouldn't celebrate for doing their duty. it is just -- here's a human history biographical fact check. a president of the united states bears down on you in the oval office at the highest levels, putting this choice to you, it's not easy to do your duty. if it were easy, you wouldn't call it duty. so i do not believe, on the conversion point, with my baptist colleague. i don't think you apply a character test for a conversion. if you applied a character test you wouldn't need the conversion, right? >> right, right. >> that said the last thing he said about supporting the nominee no matter what

contradicts his statement from earlier in the day. >> it's a trick question, joe. >> yeah, rightly, looking at that, and we hear this all the time. first of all, if you're running for president of neither party you're going to be asked that question if you say no you don't have a chance to win. let me say they now have that as a requirement of the debate. i think everybody understands this is a phony question, they understand that donald trump will be asked this question. they understand that donald trump may lie about this question saying yes, of course i will but i'm going to win. and then after he answers that question and loses, of course he will not support the person and do everything he can if it's ron desantis to stop ron desantis from being elected. i understand people focussing on the process question but it is a process question. you have to check the box, then you can move forward and start your campaign. i strongly suspect that many of

these people that will answer that yeah, i have to check the box before i start my campaign, will check that box and when the time comes i would not be surprised to see them backing off of that. i just also want to say this, mika. i know -- i know that, again, this is another thing that people say, not just about mike pence but mitch mcconnell, other people who, on january the 6th, stood up in ways behind the scenes and in front of the cameras. you know, we would have all done the right thing. i know all of you and i know all of us in that position would have done the right thing. i also know we've spent the past seven years horrified that someone doing their duty, well, that wasn't such an easy thing. james mattis did his duty but a lot of other people in the cabinet didn't do their duty. mike pence did his duty on january the 6th.

but we can name a lot more people who did not do their duty. so yeah, doing your duty, that's not -- you know, doing what you're supposed to do, being responsible, not a big deal really except when nobody else around you is doing it. and then well, you know, you may have p just done something fairly significant. >> i think meeting in the middle here. i get it, you'll take a conversion wherever you can find it at any moment, at the gates of heaven. at the same time, i think, willie, down the road, mike pence will have to answer some questions as to why now. >> of course. >> he has converted so strongly as opposed to the time he was serving and he will deal with those questions. >> yeah, as jon suggested, chris christie has been asked these questions, he was asked at the new hampshire town hall, given everything you said would you

take hillary clinton over donald trump in 2016, no, no. last night, mike pence was asked about this very question how can you say you would support a man who you say has so corrupted the country. >> you just spent a lot of time here and earlier today explaining why you think that the former president did not uphold his oath to the constitution. so how can you say you would support him if he's the nominee? >> because i don't think donald trump is going to be the nominee. >> what if he is? >> i have great confidence in republican primary voters. we have a field of strong and experienced candidates that grew by one today. and i truly do believe napeople here in iowa are going to recognize the challenges that we're facing and understand that different times call for different leadership. >> he's saying what he has to

say there because there is a requirement that you say you support the nominee to get on the debate state. i agree with you you can check that box and say yes, i support the nominee and as you get down the road walk away from that and if you're doing well the party is going to rally behind you. >> jon meacham, there are historical parallels. i don't want anybody to say i'm comparing anybody to abraham lincoln because he was a singular figure in american history. but mika will tell you, on weekends i like to get your book and i like to read it and think deep thoughts as i'm holding a cigar and trying to emulate you. >> yeah. you have a cardigan. >> yes. >> yes, exactly. >> i've seen the cardigan. >> but this is what i want to talk through with your friends

that are watch right now that may be disagreeing with what we're sighing. we're saying. lincoln from the time he got into the state legislature he said things that would shock americans if they read them alone by themselves. he was even after the emancipation talking about colonization, as you know. >> yep. >> i think about the horace greeley letter, where greeley is pushing him, the famous newspaper editor, pushing him to november harder on emancipation. lincoln, of course, as we both know, lincoln used that letter to say i don't care about slavery. i don't care about emancipation. and he's doing this because he knew the country, the north, was racist as well as the south. he said, my job is to unite the union.

now if that is half slave, half free, you know what, that's fine with me. if that's all free, that's fine with me. i don't really care. i just want to save the union. because he knew that's what he had to say. he said a more horrible things over the proceeding 20 years, because he knew how far he could push the voters. and if he got too far ahead of them, he knew he would lose them and he would lose the battle to emancipate slaves. i love the letter and how you describe -- please forgive me for going on too long here but it's important to understand. i love that when lincoln was finally in a position to make a hard, fast decision. i love you talking about that letter that i think was hey, sent to the confederates and it was about the possibility of settlement, because the north was exhausted by war. lincoln didn't think he could carry this battle on much longer because they were so exhausted.

lincoln said that's fine let's talk about peace in 1864. but he said, here are my three conditions. but he said not even think about not freeing the slaves. don't even think about taking emancipation off the table because if you do, we're going to fight to the bitter end. and when the south decided they were going to fight to the bitter end, till annihilation, to protect the immoral institution of slavery, lincoln and grant and sherman all understood we're going to have to destroy the confederate army, this is total war, there's no more compromising with them. we're going to win. because in the end he was in a position at that point to make that call and to stop sort of toggling back and forth. >> right. >> so if politics were perfect, it wouldn't be politics, right.

and ryanhold neberg said, it is a sad duty, sometimes happy warriors undertake it. sometimes there are moments of enormous progress, the shedding of light, the realization of more perfection in the union. most of the time it's not because we're frail and fallible people. we screw up more than we get right. i wish that weren't the case but it is the case. that was what the founders saw, what lincoln saw, what fdr saw. fdr was being chided by a young socialist kind of student in the late '30s for not moving fast enough. and he looked at him and said, young man, if i move too fast i'll look back and no one is there. and so, that's the practical nature of what we do.

that doesn't mean you don't call things by their name. and i think that's one of the great shifts in recent years. the case, i believe firmly we have to make, and i'm not a democrat, and i'm not a republican, right. i think the case we have to make is that the constitution, the capacity of this big complicated democracy to solve problems is more important than any singular partisan vote. and if you have a partisan brain and you think i'm going to vote for the person whose name is next to that letter no matter what, i don't think that's in the spirit of the constitution. >> before we move on we have to stop -- we have to congratulate the one viewer this morning who took a long shot bet and picked

rinnehold neberg on the jon meacham bingo card. >> it wasn't you? >> no. >> we looed at the historical perspective here as an expert on the politics and the law, claire, what's the political potential of if there is an indictment this week or in the coming weeks that i mean, if we have a former president who is charged but not convicted -- because the process, i believe, takes well over a year, correct? are we talking about -- couldn't trump actually have the ability to whip up his base and he was running as someone indicted twice? i have a very, very fearful feeling about the potential here. >> yeah, no question he's going to use it.

he loves playing the wronged victim by -- >> right. this would be the ultimate wrong. >> this would be the ultimate wrong. and his group, that 30% of the republican primary voters, are going to buy in completely on that. >> yeah. >> so the question is will -- i'm not sure a trial would be after the election. >> how does that -- >> i think the trial would be -- typically a trial after a federal indictment is not a year in the future. >> it's not? so what's the timing? >> if andrew were on, he'd be more -- i think a lot of it depends. it depends on how quickly the judge wants to move. andrew mentioned the judges in south florida may take longer because they're not as familiar with the underlying law. but i can't do jon meacham ever because he's so eloquent and i'm not going to try, i have to say this, imagine how different our

country would be today if all the people who are saying the obvious today said it in real time. and when you run for president what you're asking the country to do is say i'm the kind of leader that will speak out when it's hard to protect our democracy. bill barr, chris christie, ron desantis, nikki haley, tim scott, asa hutchinson. all of these people have been senators and governors and cabinet members. all of them, all of them were radio silent in real time when they saw what this man was doing. >> i know. >> they knew what he was going to do. they watched him do it. and none of them said a damn word. and none of them deserve to be president because of it. >> you have different levels of bad, joe you and i have debated this because we can get lost in the what were you doing when you were in the there. i get that. but i mean, nikki haley, for

example, can't come out against things full throatedly. she's like january 6th was a bad day. it was a very bad day. no, it was more than a bad day, there was an insurrection at the capitol. people were killed. our democracy was pushed to the limit. and yes, mike pence did his job. but i agree with claire. >> yeah. why didn't he do a press conference the next day and call it out and say what he said yesterday loudly and clearly for all the country to hear it. no, he didn't do that. >> that's a fair question. when we went to these extremes, joe, it is a fair question. there were a lot of people hurt by the trump presidency, a lot of people who died, and family members would claim, at the hands of the trump presidency dealing with covid and lying to the american people. so i feel that great if somebody is going to come around and actually deal with the facts. but i think the why didn't you

say something sooner question is a fair one. >> as brother meacham and i get to the 16th verse of just as i am. >> please, no. >> with all eyes closed. >> no. >> and all heads bowed. >> no. >> let me make a couple of points. first, that was the worst nikki haley imitation i've ever heard in my life. secondly, we, every day, exhaustively, sometimes for four hours a day have been saying the same thing that you and claire just said. and narry have we waifrd. third i am not talking about the general election i'm not talking about what happens when people get past donald trump if they get past donald trump and whether americans should vote for them or not. then we have a completely new conversation and then we ask those questions. all i am saying is, for the

purposes of a republican primary, where the goal of everybody in that primary is to knock donald trump out, this is i believe an important step forward. not a massive step forward but an important step forward understanding we are all frail and fallible people as jon meacham said. but claire, better late than never. i'm glad they said it, and said it in a primary. i'll have the same comment as you in a general election. but as you know, it's harder for them to say this in a primary season which suggests there may be a bit of a change in at least some portions of the political party. >> yeah. i'll give you that. i've seen a lot of conversions in jail.

i've seen a lot of conversions when people are facing a judgment. >> what about mike pence on january 6th? how significant do you think historians will look at what mike pence did on january 6th? >> i said what you said what mike pence did on january 6th was the right thing. i find it weird that is the only thing we can say about mike pence as it relates to donald trump's illegal behavior and inappropriate behavior and abnormal behavior for year after year after year. >> yes, amen! >> i agree but if it's the only thing he's ever done right, you got to say, like that guy has pretty damn good timing because he did it on a day that american democracy was going up in flames. >> i understand. and listen, yes, he did the right thing in the moment. that's great. but imagine how different it would have been if all the people who did the impeachment and voted on trump's

impeachment -- i just think people discount the leadership the country needed in the republican party and, you know, it -- trump didn't have to be this strong right now. all they all had to do was stand up to him. >> nobody is discounting that at all, claire. nobody is discounting it. i have said on this show for eight years that republicans made a mistake by not standing up to a bully. donald trump is what donald trump is right now because nobody stood up to the bully. i had private conversations with paul ryan, you you name it, go down the list, mark meadows, you name it. i went to the capitol early on saying he'll never respect you unless you punch back. you have to be tough. he is a bully. we understand that. does anybody on the set not understand that? >> well, i mean, look -- >> we all --

>> go ahead meacham. >> senator, i think it's tricky if not problematic to imply that trump, trumpism were verbally attacked, someone stand up and say something, i think as george w. bush may say, misunder estimates the issues that helped produce the moment and the stubborn nature of the ill liberal tendency in the country, the frustration that has manifested itself in the worst possible american forces rising to the top. and that's a big problem that i think is beyond just talking about it. >> you know, i'm here jon, i'm here, jon, because i felt it in

a way that nobody else on this set did what you're talking about. i was thumped in a race that i thought was going to be much closer than it was, i lost by 7 points in a state that i won time after time because of those tendencies. no question trump totally got the grievance. he mainlined the grievance that so many americans felt, all of that is real and nothing anyone said could have changed that but i think they could have changed the trajectory of donald trump and his power he has right now by being braver and having more courage and that's the only point i'm trying to make. >> jonathan lemire some of the conventional wisdom is that donald trump welcomes this, it enhances his martyr dom with his base. but if we get to next year, say he's the nominee, the summer, he's on trial for sedition conspiracy for a coup against the united states government, hard to see how that helps him.

>> or the classified documents matter might help him now but not next year. it's going toeb the story line, hanging over everything he does. we talk on the show every day, how the elections, decided by the swing votes, suburban women, and it's hard to see how these legal cases help them at all. i think as we've been saying recently, sometimes trump's feelings get exposed after midnight. all caps last night prosecutions done by fascists and calling his supporters to fight. we have heard that before. we have heard that before. this is not the rhetoric of someone who thinks it's going to help him politically next year. >> joe? >> i completely agree. let me go harold ford here, i agree with the senator.

i agree with claire mccaskill, and i share her shock and outrage. i do. this conversation is limited to purposes of the primary and getting donald trump off the playing field by republicans. and it also goes to a republican party that's been so -- had so much cowardice in it for the past eight years yes, this is refreshing and may be a change. i go back to an ann applebaum column soon after january 6th, uncomfortably close to january 6th. she said we have to figure out how to get some of these people back into the main stream of american politics. we have to keep the door open to them. so my only point is to -- to anybody out there, and we had dan yesterday saying don't isolate the conspiracy theorists

like in your family. bring them in, let them talk. have polite conversations. we have to draw them in. they have to be deprogrammed. i just say our goal maybe it may not be a bad thing, to show grace whenever we have the opportunity to show that grace. because, as we talked about on the show, this isn't going to happen overnight. it's going to happen one convert at a time. it's going to happen like 0.1% of the electorate at a time. but over time that adds up to 1% and 2% and 4%. and suddenly, the states that matter the most start falling away from donald trump and trumpists. >> i hear you on that. we're going to continue this conversation. jon meacham thank you very much. still a lot more to get to really quick -- >> one note for jon meacham,

ryanhold wrote the serenity prayer. >> oh, nice. still ahead on "morning joe" we'll play what mike pence had to say about ron desantis in his announcement speech. also ahead, a group of right wing republicans bring house business to a halt. we'll show you what speaker kevin mccarthy is saying about the revolt within his own party. plus. plus the scene in the flood-ravaged region of kherson, ukraine following the dam collapse later this week. and joined by two members of congress from different sides of the aisle working together in a push for new sanctions against american adversaries. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. we will be right back.

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rate what was found out here and how pervasive the problem is. >> important to note that with 1.3 billion users, of course you have bad people 00 line. so that is not the question. what our review found is that instagram is actively connecting people with pedophile tendencies. and instagram will as soon as you even touch the network of pedophile users, they will recommend that you push keeper into it. they also had tremendous operational failures.keeper into it. they also had tremendous operational failures. it was being used to sell large volumes of self generated child

content. or i should say supposedly. i don't want to presume. and it is i think pretty disturbing on operational failure. the company has acknowledged that due to a software bug that they were throwing out a lot of reports of child sexual abuse without reviewing them. and that they have also pledged to try to prevent their platform from actively connecting pedophiles with each other. and so like take it off and prevent their recommendation systems for -- from promoting the pedophile community. >> and a spokesperson for zam parent company meta writes we work aggressively to fight it on and on our platforms and to support law enforcement in either efforts to arrest and prosecute the criminals behind it. we're committed to tipping our work to protect teens, obstruct

cells and support law enforcement in bringing them to justice. rene, explain what is happening here. examples if you could of -- if you could give us scenarios. >> sure, one of the ways that people are connected to content on the internet is they indicate an interest in it. and what a platform recommended system does says you've looked at content like this, so you should look at this. and so if you engage in one way, it posts a peculiar image, a wharls of the topic. and when the recommender system does not distinguish that the kept that it is recommending is in this case illegal, or dewill

that deeply disturbing, what we might not want to recommend but perhaps send a signal to go look at something, instead what happens is that the al go rit nick ninlg says that they have have not interest in it. and so many accounts indicated that they were selling content themselves. so they would connect using instagram stories which disappear, they would try to reach out, they would turn that you were accounts on and off private when they were off right, they would advertise. and when on private, question don't know what at the did because we don't like at private accounts.questiondon't know wha did because we don't like at private accounts. so they are trying to grow a following. one of what we might call a buyer account connects with the seller account, the beabuyer

account would be pushed to other the accounts. and so even as they try to depress particularly bad types of hashtags, the recommender system is working against that by pushing the content out to people who have indicated an interest either through other accounts on the net work or engaging with the particular hashtagsimages. >> so this story is ininfuriati. when you said that instagram identifies the pedophiles, i assume that it is a sting operation and they did drone thrown into a van and taken away. but no, they can connected. so i'll clean up the language, what the hell? how is it even possible and what is meta doing to stop it? >>s it is not an unreasonable gwenn even if it is a little

basic. but there is a good question. if meta's system can tell that people want the content, why are they not more on top of it. they have the ability do something that stanford can't do, that i can't do. i think they technology this there are failures. and they have fixed a glitch showing out user reports. they have started internal task force. so in terms of responding to this, while they haven't said they are story which i think is something that you kind of suggested you'd like to see, they certainly have been taking

steps to try to get the problem under control and maybe urgently. so that is something -- i don't think that we can say that that will succeed or they will follow through with it, but, you know, they certainly have gun -- >> so jeff's article points out that this is not just instagram. s on other social media platforms as well. so if this is an an algorithmic thing, is it a problem with just ped feel ped fill i can't and dt go to other problems. and what is -- there has to a -- there has to be some sort of regulatory or legal remedy. rene, are you just scratching the surface here? >> well, one of the things that social media companies do is

they play whac-a-mole. they can use their tools to connect with other people who might have an interest with what they are selling. sometimes what they are selling is illegal. it may be drugs, guns, even stolen rely ricks. relis or even ivory. anytime you have a platform designed to connect with people, they can use it for illegal things. so you want to see moderation focused on taking down ands can disrupting the i will let networks. and this is in part because one of the things that account creatorslet networks. and this is in part because one of the things that account creators, they recognize if they lose an account on one platform, they want to have a backup on somewhere else. or there are platforms that will try to moderate, instagram does try to

moderate, where others throw their hands up and say nothing that we'll do about it. so you will see that accounts created on instagram that more what you might call average people are that recruit them in in that way or connect with them in that much easier defined place and send them to other platforms where there will be far less enforcement. and so that is why you see it spread across the ecosystem. >> and rene and jeff, thank you very much for your reporting. bringing this to light. i mean, it is like the social media companies are going back wards. they open up the flood gates to anything and everything to pervade the platforms and then they say maybe w should try to

stop that. what can be done? >> congress historically has a really hard time keeping up with tech regulation. the minute they do something, it is already out of date. but there are a couple bills that are bipartisan support focusing on protecting our children. we talk about parents rights. i'd urge every parent to pay attention and contact their member of congress about these bills introduced on a basis that would outlaw these bills. especially for young teenagers or tweens those kids between 10 and 13 that are finding their way in the world, if we can keep them from the danger of algorithms that feed them things that cause them self harm or suicide or drug use or porn, that would be a huge step

forward. and it seems that that is a basic step that has to be taken immediately. and if more people are aware of it, we can get the bills passed. >> joe, jump in. >> this is something we saw where instagram knew that their product was causing grave damage to young girls and young women. and also men. young men as well. and they buried the research. and when it was outed, when it was liked, they then circled the wagon and said oh, no. what we said in our studies is not what we meant. people say be very careful not correlating what is going on in social media. the impact it is having on the mental health of young people with tobacco, but in this case, you have a major corporation making billions of dollars pushing its product which they know is harming a subset of this

country. especially younger americans. and they hide the information. and so -- also again rngs for silicon valley valley to constantly be telling congress that we have to police ourselves, we have to police ourselves, and then you find out this is not a bug of the feature, this this is the feature itself. it is the algorithm. they are doing this stuff deliberately. and it is complete -- and this is -- this is a shocking story. shocking but not surprising by this point because they are doing every they can to hook young eyes. >> and we'll continue the conversation throughout the show and throughout time because we are -- this is personal for all of us. but once again, it is important to mention that people who run the tech companies and create these platforms do not let their

kids on social media. so there you go. and we are following a number of fast moving developments and, joe, the top story is that trump has been told he is the target. >> oh, yeah, nbc news has learned that the former president's attorneys have been told that he is a target of the justice department's investigation into terrorism's handling of classified documents after he left the white house. prosecutors told trump attorneys about their client being a target in the probe during their meeting on monday according to two sources. this does not rule out the possibility that terrorism's attorneys had already known that or they had already been told that trump was a target prior to the meeting. and a doj spokesman when asked declined to comment. the guardian reports that

federal prosecutors informed trump's lawyers last week that trump was the target of the documents investigation and possible obstruction of justice charges. that is according to two people briefed on the matter. meanwhile the "washington post," and this is really an interesting twist, reports that there will be a significant portion of charges that may come out of documents investigation in south florida. and not washington, d.c. that is also according to people familiar with the matter. the paper reports that the legal basis for such a move is that the bulk of the conduct at issue took place in the southern district of florida, specifically in and around mar-a-lago. which is in palm beach. this doesn't rule out the possibility of some charges being filed in the nation's capital. >> and we reported yesterday that key aide to former

president trump appeared yesterday before the grand jury in miami florida. taylor budowich testified about an hour for about trump's handling of classified documents. and he was a trump spokesman when the documents dispute when it erupted last year. budowich answered questions about a past public statement on behalf of trump. sources tell the "washington post" that budowich was questioned about an encounter with trump in early 2022 after boxes of documents were sent to the national archives and records administration at the time. and trump drafted a lengthy statement that he had given, quote, everything back to the federal government. but after consulting with lawyers and advise or, budowich

did not release a attempt because some of the advisers did not believe that he returned everything at the time. budowich offered his own recap on twitter following his grand jury tomorrow calling the investigation, quote, bogus and deeply troubling and that he, quote, answered every question honestly. let's bring in elyse jordan and also mike barnicle here with us. mike, how are you? >> i'm well, thank you. >> and congressional reporter is joining us. and also the state attorney for palm beach county florida, dave aronberg is here. jonathan lemire is with us as wednesday. joe, a lot of questions about jurisdiction, but also the testimony by taylor budowich

very defensive on social media after his answering questions. >> i probably would be too if the feds were coming after my boss and possibly me. and so let's talk about it. a fascinating twist in all of this. jackie, to you first and then over to the state attorney in palm beach county, dave aronberg. jackie, why south florida? >> well, this is really a statutory thing. the bull position of the crimes that trump is likely potentially going to be charged for actually occurred in florida. and so if you are looking through hypothetical charges, the removal of the documents could be charged in d.c. but wrongfully retaining documents which is sort of a charge that we have heard that prosecutors are discussing, that is better suited to charges in

the jurisdiction where the crime was committed which is mar-a-lago. and so the process is that once the grand jury is done hearing evidence, then the appropriate magistrate and once an indictment a voted on, but there could be multiple jurors we've heard of, then once the indictment is voted on, it is assigned to a specific courthouse in south that. which is most likely going to be west palm beach. but this is sort of an in the weeds thing. but we did get sort of a tipoff this weekend once we found out that, yes, the grand jury in d.c. hasn't been empanelled for several weeks now, nearly a month, but the grand jury in miami is still moving ahead and they are working. >> so this is all happening right in your legal neighborhood

in florida. so talk about if you can with the consensus among the legal experts in the first hour the fact that the federal prosecutors 234678ed trump's lawyers that he is the arrest target of the criminal investigation. do you see an indictment coming? i do. this is not like the moon landing. it is is no shock. it is important because it shows that an indictment do come any day as soon as today. the grand jury meeting today and tomorrow. and so that could happen. but as far as south florida is concerned, i think that the south florida grand jury could also be targeting trump's associates down here who

allegedly helped with obstruction like walt nauta who allegedly moves the are documents. he lied saying he never moved the documents until a surveillance camera proved him wrong. and also an assistant who started asking questions about the cameras where they were placed. and so i think that there are two reasons why they have the grand jury down here. i think that it is to make sure that there is a proper venue for trump. so exciting times ahead. >> and obviously grand jury transcripts and grand jury system are closely held and secret, but how does it work, how would it work two sitting

grand jury, one in d.c., one in south florida, on basically the same case. how would that work? >> they could both do it. the grand jury in d.c. has done so much work that i can't imagine that they are just going to leave this whole thing without an indictment. i think that you will seen a indictment against trump in d.c. federal prosecutors would rather is the case in d.c. they have a more favor only jury pool. but in florida, it is not as blue as washington, d.c. and plus the judge here in palm beach county, she is the one who seemed to went over backwards to give trump's legal team everything that they wanted. but i think that you will see a

split indictment. and it will go through the whole process and i guess my advice and mika, you and i have talked about this, but my advice is don't buy any green bananas. a reckoning is coming. >> and do you think anybody else will be involved in the indictments, others charged in anyway? >> well, i do think trump associates like walt nauta, they want to know why he refused to put out the statement. not surprised that he is d defiant. he is playing for an audience of one. but mark meadow also is out there somewhere. and we don't knee if you got immunity or a plea deal. but trump could not have dunk it

all loonl. you can get 20 years for obstruction. >> yeah. that is why i'm asking. dave aronberg, thank you very much for being on this morning. ond and so chris christie's presidential campaign just two days old and his messaging surrounding donald trump is taking shape in a new interview, he outlines why he believes trump won the nomination in 2016 and why this time will be different. >> in 2015 and '16, we ran the first time, you had a situation where donald trump had no record to speak of. he had been on a tv show. and there was no way to really make the case against him. i think all of us all found it very difficult to make the case because he could say whatever he wanted to say.

no proof that he couldn't do it. this is different. today we know he said that he would build a wall and he didn't do it. just a quarter is built. he said mexico would pay for it and we haven't gotten our first pay peso. and he said that he would balance the budget. and we're left with the greatest deficit. he said that he would get rid of the national debt. there is a record here on things both public policy but even on the trivial. remember he used to go after barack obama for playing golf. i remember one time he alonged in the camera and said i will not play a golf a day because i'll be on busy fixing americ 's problems and he played gchl for golf for 260 days.

an disappointed the kin. country. and so there is direct criticism. there. what do pence and christie bring to the campaign in terms of going against trump? >> it is finally bringing a full frontal attack. finally you have someone stepping up an talking about the misdeeds and what didn't happen and what wasn't accomplished during the trump presidency. and chris christie is perfect to do that.

and it shows the field is slightly changing. >> and we'll have to see whether the federal charges come. but do you say i'll support him if he is the nominee. but chris christie is that he would take the pledge as seriously a trump did, which means not at all. asa hitchen hutch enson is

saying that we who change that plaenlg. plaenlg. shows that the republicans that they are willing too take the fight to terrorism. trump. at least some what you what. >> and that is the big question. what does the republican party do if a former sitting president is indicted for various crimes against the country an against the constitution. so what happens to more than half of the country so entrenched in trump's maga world to say that is enough, i'm not for sure. we'll find out. interesting thing about chris christie, he has not shot at getting the republican

nomination. but talking to people in in in, he is skilled at retail politics. one-on-one meeting people. he is open, he is smiling all the time. he is a welcoming by. but what to they have to can the thedy dilemma of donald trump. >> and they say we saw it in the 2016 campaign. so they will go hard at him and if it doesn't work, they will fall in line? >> hard to say only because i think that 2016 was so long ago.

so much has happened. and even since the last election with january the 6th. and they are more out img this time they are more out on the limb than before.this time they are more out on the limb than before. i think some people will go crawling back to him if he wins. just the nature of what the party has done. but i did want to say about chris christie, we saw in 2016 krisy christie did a lot of work and knows a lot of people there. if the climate is different, if the ground is a little more fertile for challengers to donald trump, i suspect that chris christie may made inroads there.

it is too early to count anybody out. and mark halperin talks about what the republican party looks like if donald trump is sidelined. it is fascinating. everything scatters. and suddenly you have people like glenn youngkin that will jump into the race. and people fear that people will bolt to rfk jr. so it will be fascinating. we'll see if he is sidelined. i'm of the opinion and i think history has shown if donald trump can run from priso he

will. i don't see him going into dark night. and james come has announced that the vote removaled from schedule of a testify chris wray goed to let thecommittee to view a document. and it continues allegations from a list about a bribe involving joe biden as his time as vice president. so the planned vote to hold wray

in contempt before backtracking yesterday. and jackie can, you are following this story. how might it play out in. >> yeah, it is a lot of back and foort to golf. last night at around 9:30, we were notified that james comer had agreed to christopher wray's offer for all of the lawmakers to review the document which we are told that it was reviewed under attorney general bill bar r and that the document was routed to another ongoing investigation. but that does not mean that it is the allegations make in the allegation specifically are industrial being investigated. lawmakers are expected to view the document as early as today

or next week. but kevin mccarthy made it clear that if all of the lawmakers are annual to view this document in camera, in person, then there is no contempt vote. james comer seems to have ultimately agreed despite w boa doing around the contempt vote. >> all right, jackie, thank you. and this document itself, my god, time and again we hear about the document and it seem to the be much ado about nothing. and you have chuck grassley who saw the document who said that -- was asked does the document prove that he was guilty? and he said we don't care if he is guilty or not. and again, barr didn't move on

this. >> the trump administration didn't move on this. and none came out saying that he did anything wrong. there is just a whole lot of smoke here. and absolutely no fire it seems. >> the fires are up in canadaca. and you heard it, congressman comer has admitted that this is about president biden's poll numbers, that they recognize there probably isn't something actually there. but they will keep it going. and it is about a smoke machine here because it is that they are trying to really distraction and come up with the equivalence of the legal problems surrounding donald trump. republicans have made clear that their ath argument that this is

a way to level the playing field. frts but in fact polls suggest that they should focus on something that matters. >> and saying look, as driving dupe the poll numbers. and laguardia airport full ground stop right now. all inbound flights. smoke is-of. >> and so i was concerned about this. this is -- they were already concerned about flights being delayed because of this. do they say how long? >> they believe it is temporary. this morning. but who can say the last couple

days it has gotten worse, so we'll see. >> and people are being told in new york city to wire masks and also if you have any health concern, just stay inside.d and you have any health concern, just stay inside.wire masks and also if you have any health concern, just stay inside. coming up, holding a party agenda hostage. and also ahead, people are up set about president-elect tour commissioner jay monahan takes ownership of the hypocrisy around the merger. his response. and the star athlete who is not swayed by saudi money.

we'll have messi's new landing spot. messi's new landing spot

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teammates ever to both record 30 point triple doubles in the history of the league. jokic 32 points, 21 rebounds. and nuggets beat the heat taking a one game lead in the series. the teams will stay in miami for game four tomorrow night. and meanwhile pga tour commission any jay monahan addressed criticism over role in brokering a merger with liv golf. >> i understand the criticism i'm receiving around me being hit critical gorsuch my actions

the last couple of years.hit critical gorsuch my actions the last couple of years. we reached a compromise and that was one of my great considerations. but any hypocrisy i have to own. nobody else. that is on me. but again, as we sit here today, i'm confident that we've done something that is in the best interests of our sport and ultimately in the best interests of pga tour members. >> and one of those tour members rory mcilroy has been one of the loudest voices against liv. and rory told reporters that he feels like a sacrificial lamb following the announcement. he had been offered $400 million to join the tour and he declined. and he added that he still hates liv. and he still hopes that it goes

away. but they are now in business together. and so i talked to somebody close to rory yesterday who said that rory was informed the night before that the deal was coming down. but the commissioner did not call him. but if you are stepped out there and you were pushed out there by the pga tour, by jay monahan to say defend us, you be the guy and now the deal is made and now he's work for being for the saudis anyway. >> no one stepped up to the plate stronger than rory meckel roy. is this a bad look for monahan. i know him and i feel bad for him, butt bad along is this is not good. i don't think that this is good for golf other than the many

play. the money play is attractive to the pga and liv guys. but it is not a good look. >> and if you listen to rory's full press conference, he was critical. he said i still hate live ig. but he also said is this the deal that will save golf. ig. but he also said is this the ig. but he also said is this the deal that will save golf. so he is hurricane dorian are are -- he is turning page on it. if he is willing to move on, it appears everybody is moving on. >> and there is a major in a week's team. so what else can he do? but it look catastrophic. it is so bad for monahan. it is hypocritical. and he was so strongly condemning the saudis on moral

grounds. and gives voice to the concern of the ninth families. but the money shows up and it all goes away. so very difficult to get your heads around. >> nowhere else to go. and "the miami herald" says messi is coming to miami. and he intends to play for enter miami and he rejected a $500 billion deal from a team in saudi arabia. mls says that while the deal is not finalized, the league looks forward to welcoming one of greatest soccer players of all-time. and two things. hugh coup for the mls. and he turned down a half a billion. >> yeah, he is by far the most famous soccer player of the world. and he won a world cup.

so the guy can still do it. this is after ronaldo did take the saudi arabia money. so good for messi. good thing for mls, but also a nice story. >> and i think that we can safely assume that messi will not be playing for minimum wage. >> i think he's good. coming up, two house lawmakers making a bipartisan push to new u.s. sanctions against iran, china and russia. and democrat jar and a republican join us next. and a republican join us next. trying to control my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪

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. president zelenskyy visited the flood ravaged region of kherson after the major dam break. and this drone video shows the devastating impact. thousands have been evacuated from the region. and the u.s. state department estimates roughly 20,000 people will end up having to move due to the flood. and local media report there is have been three confirmed deaths and at least ten people are missing. iran tuesday unveiled what it called a hypersonic missile. and the general dwho spoke at the unveiling claimed the missile can travel up to 870 miles.spoke at the unveiling claimed the missile can travel up to 870 miles.

and the pun public display comes as they continue to fund its weapon development program.publ as they continue to fund its weapon development program. congressmen have introduced a bipartisan bill targeting those involved in the exports. and they are joining us now. congressman lawler, let's start with you. what will the bill do is this. >> it imposes sanctionses on then who owns or operate as refinery, a ship, or a port tat transports iranian oil. iran is an exports of evil. an they have been obviously

focused on destroying the state of israel. this most recent announcement obviouslythey have been obvious focused on destroying the state of israel. this most recent announcement obviously the threat is very clear. and they have been funding terrorism and their nuclear weapons program through the exports of oil. and so this would impose sanctions on then who helps them in effort. and it is critically important that we stop what they are doing. >> and this is a bipartisan fashion. is there a bipartisan support for the bill? >> yeah, there is bipartisan support for the bell. there is still a lot bipartisan support up here on the hill when it comes to foreign policy. is this an issue that is not just about the middle east politics and obviously state of israel, but about what is happening also in the ukraine

war. iran is a dstabiliing force. and so this will mainly attack china who is behind a lot of the oil and that is it how they are funding all of this stuff of together. >> and so tell us the impact of china. thereare very few things that bring together those on the hill, but china is a concern voiced by both parties. so tell us more about how this could have an impact on beijing. >> china is other greatest geopolitical foe. and there is bipartisan support, creating select committe. but they are in cahoots with

north korea and russia, and look what they it did with saudi arabia. their intent it to undermine the united states and our allies around the globe.their intent ie united states and our allies around the globe. so anything that we can do to impose stricter sanctions, make is more district no iran and china and russia in what they are doing to destabilize the region and our allies, that is driticily important. and so this is a step in the right direction. it enjoys bipartisan support in the house and senate. and marco rubio, maggie hassan are carrying the bill there. and we want to see the move through foreign affairs. and to the house floor for a vote and he is expeditiously as possible. >> and so just news about china real quick, china and cuba have

reached a secret agreement to china to establish an electronic eavesdropping facility 00 the island. and they report that the facility would allow close sneeze intel fence services to scoop up communications.sneeze intel fence services to scoop up communications. and they could monitor u.s. ship traffic. and they agreed to pay several billion dollars to allow to build the eavesdropping station. and that the tro countries have reached an agreement in principal. this of course correspond to the paper. >> and the ships aspect, anything to the fact that it

seems that it is difficult to track ships these days? there are ghost ships who report they are in one location and yet they are in the another location. is that part of the dilemma here, finding the ships who are being used to ship the oil? >> yeah, no, great question. it is part of the dilemma but that is also why it is going off of the processing facilities. it has to be processed. and so additional sanctions there, that is one way. but no doubt every time we put in thinks as they try to figure out a way to go around it.lawle party, in the house of representatives, as you know, there's about a dozen members of the far right members of your party, those in the freedom caucus in open rebellion against the speakership unable to get

bills to the floor. what does this is a to you and what's your read and are you concerned that kevin mccarthy's grip on his post may be endangered? >> no, i'm not concerned about the speakership. i think speaker mccarthy has been continually underestimated throughout the course of the first six months here and has done a very good job advancing legislation through the house. i think my colleagues need to recognize as i said back in january when we had the speaker vote the vast majority of our conference is unified. and we will continue to hold firm. we're not going to be overrun by a handful of folks. you have to work as colleagues. you have to work in good faith, and i think when they get over their little temper tantrum they need to show up to do their job come monday because i will be here to do mine and that's what

i expect of all of my colleagues that were elected to represent the people of this country. >> all right, republican congressman mike lawler of new york and democratic congressman jared moskowitz of florida. thank you very much for being on. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest developments in the doj's classified documents investigation and why the mar-a-lago property could play a major role in possible charges. and we'll have more on the other big story this morning. you're looking at it. yikes, the smoke hanging over new york city and much of the northeast, laguardia had a ground stop. >> inbound flights, ground stop. >> aye-yie-yie. "morning joe" is back in a moment. kind of stuck here. ♪ ...i'm over 45. ♪ ♪ i realize i'm no spring chicken. ♪ ♪ i know what's right for me. ♪ ♪ i've got a plan to which i'm sticking. ♪

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about 50 americans were

stuck briefly in russia after their plane made an unscheduled landing. air india had engine trouble and had to land at an airport in russia's far east. a replacement plane arrived later in the evening and successfully took off before midnight, thank goodness, since russia's invasion, the state department has warned americans not to travel to russia, in this case involuntarily. pope francis is expected to remain in the hospital for several days after undergoing successful surgery yesterday. surgeons removed intestinal scar tissue and repaired a hernia in his abdominal wall. the vatican said there were no complications during the three-hour operation which required the pontiff to be under general anesthesia. this comes just two years after the 86-year-old had part of his colon removed, the latest health concern prompted the vatican to cancel his meetings until june 18th. and still ahead on "morning

joe," the latest from the 2024 presidential campaign trail as mike pence launches his bid with a swing at his old boss while chris christie makes his own case against donald trump, an aggressive one. "morning joe" will be right back.

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you know, on the day of january 6th i issued a tweet demanding that people leave the capitol and end the violence and

a said those that failed to do that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and i continue to believe that today. we cannot ever allow what happened on january 6th to happen again in the heart of our democracy and i'll stand by the decisions and the due process of court in our laws and i have no interest or no intention of pardoning those that assaulted police officers or vandalized our capitol. they need to be answerable to the law. >> former vice president mike pence with one of the ways he is differentiating himself from his former boss. we'll have more from his campaign launch just ahead. it comes as the department of justice confirms what we all suspected, trump is the target of the classiied documents investigation. we'll get expert analysis on what it means, plus, one of the

pga's top players blasts the organization for its deal with liv golf. parts of the northeast, my lord, looked like something out of an apocalyptic movie and still does, by the way. we'll get the latest time line from when the wildfire smoke from canada could clear out. here in new york, crazy. you couldn't see a thing, and you can taste it. it's just awful. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, june 8th. hello, joe. >> hi, mika. i was going to ask you and willie to describe it going around because the pictures and the video you sent me, mika, really did look apocalyptic. >> yeah. >> that's the word. it looked and smelled and felt apocalyptic. the trend seems to me, the mornings are okay. >> right you think it's going to go away. >> as the day goes on it gets worse. >> i went inside for a couple of

hours and yesterday afternoon the sky was completely orange. it smells like a campfire everywhere you went. it was worse yesterday than the day before. and now you smell inside. you know, it's like in the hallway of your apartment building or in the breezeway when you walk into a building. it's real and it's had delays to flights, canceled tons of outdoor activities, not safe for kids or the elderly tore people with respiratory problems. this is very real and these wildfires are expected to burn all summer so we might get a break in weekend but it's unclear if we're really going to see the end of this. >> yesterday afternoon was believed to be the worst of it. you couldn't see across the street. orange hue, the smoke permeated the -- >> blame canada. >> today is not supposed to be great either. a little better then steady improvement friday, saturday, sunday. this is first of all what other parts go through a lot. it's just news and new in new

york city. d.c. will be bad today. but also this is going to be a new reality where fires become more and more common we have to start getting used to it. >> it's not just us, the actual science at one point new york city's air quality was the worst in the world. i believe that was at some point yesterday. world's worst air. >> yes. >> then i think -- and then today or late last night second worst in the world. we'll be following this along with joe, willie and me and have former u.s. senator now a political analyst, claire mccaskill on set with us in new york and the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire is here, how are you doing on a thursday? >> breathing in terrible smoke. >> troubled over. >> with us jon meacham is with us. so let's launch right in. we have a lot to get to. nbc news has learned former

president donald trump's attorneys have been told that trump is a target of the justice department's investigation into the former president's handling of classified documents after leaving the white house. prosecutors told trump's attorneys about their client being a target in the probe during their meeting monday at the doj in washington, d.c. that is according to two sources briefed on the meeting. that does not rule out the possibility that trump's attorneys already understood or they were told trump was a target prior to the meeting. a doj spokesperson declined to comment. the guardian reports federal prosecutors formally informed trump's lawyers last week that trump is a target of the documents investigation and possible obstruction of justice. that is according to two people briefed on the matter, so, joe, this slowly inches toward something with the former president. >> it does and, jon meacham, i'm

curious to get your thoughts on where we are right now. obviously in so many ways we are so far past where nixon was in '74, the depths of watergate, '73 and '74 including a complete lack of respect for the judicial system which, you know, richard nixon had. when the supreme court unanimously said turn the tapes over, nixon didn't even think about, you know, having the republicans attack the supreme court with commercials or, you know, try to intimidate them from doing their job, but, of course, that is something that is just second nature for donald trump. >> yeah, well, the interesting thing about nixon is that after he broke the law, he followed the law and when al haig called him he was at san clemente

probably walking on the beach wing tips which i always thought he was attacked for. >> we do all the time. >> you should see geist out there. the chief of staff at that point and nixon says is there any give in it? it was unanimous and he said, no, and then that set in motion the last 14 days or so of that tragedy. with trump and this moment now, one of the questions we have both legally and culturally is because president nixon was pardoned by president ford in september of 1974, an act for which ford was excoriated in realtime, celebrated 25 years later or so before he died in 2004, i think, there's rethinking about this now,

because we have not held presidents and former presidents legally accountable in the way that arguably a democracy should. if no man is above the law, no man is above the law. and so the question we have now is what is the political effect of yet another potential indictment and then what are the mechanics of going forward here. and to be fair, this is what mitch mcconnell and others alluded to when they declined to vote for that second impeachment, which would have barred trump from retaking federal office. they said let the legal process go forward. he wasn't directly alluding to the documents but, of course, the georgia case goes forward as well. a lot to live with here. i think the real question we all

have to ask ourselves and particularly those 14 voters who are in the middle in america is do you want a -- do you want to re-elect someone with this overt contempt for the laws that are supposed to apply to all of us? >> so, claire, let's have you put on your prosecutor's hat, if you would. when federal prosecutors tell attorneys for a potential defendant he is a target, that tells you what about their investigation? >> tells you they're going to indict him. i'm not aware of very many cases where someone has gotten a target letter before the feds had decided that they had sufficient evidence to go forward and, you know, that's the thing about the federal government, they don't have to do anything until they're ready. it's not like state prosecutors who are doing violent criminals, excuse me. >> does that mean they're ready? >> it means they're ready. it looks like to me they're

doing something in florida on a different track having to do with venue which may just be keeping pressure on witnesses that may be key to an indictment that i believe will come down in washington, but it's going to be really interesting and it's going to be interesting politically. we don't know -- so far charging him with a crime has calcified his support of about 30% of the republican party and now we officially have the seven dwarfs that are in the race along with desantis who may turn out to be snow white. he likes white boots. i think snow white liked white boots so this is going to be, you know, this is trump's dream that he would have this many republican candidates in the primary that would siphon off all the anti-trump voters there are in the republican party and put him in the driver's seat, so we may have the first time in history jon meacham can speak to it we have a nominee for

president that has an ankle bracelet. >> we don't know how this would impact the race politically. certainly the one in new york only helped trump. this might be different. that will play out. in florida one of his aides, taylor budowich is the one that testified yesterday. trump himself put out a statement saying, i have not been told i'll be indicted. that's true. but he has now been told he's a target and people in trump world that i spoke to yesterday in the wake of this news, they're bracing themselves and think even this week or next. it could be that fast for an indictment to come down in the classified documents case? we'll talk more about the politics in a second with mike pence, trump's former vice president in the race officially. let's bring in legal analyst andrew weissmann. andrew, do you agree with claire that these target letters signal an indictment? >> absolutely. particularly given we're talking about a former president of the

united states. it is legally permissible and possible to tell someone they are a target to issue a target letter and for them eventually not to be charged, but i think when you're talking about the former president, this is something that is complying sort of with the pro forma doj rule, and it's just something that happens before you charge and i think in many ways it's not news. everyone's known including the defense camp that donald trump has been the target of this investigation for quite some time and this is really a formality and i think there's no question that he is going to get charged. i think it's just a question now of when and if it's going to be in florida or d.c. i think those are really sort of key open questions, obviously the nature of this -- the specific nature of the charges,

what the evidence is is obviously also something we're all looking for. >> to the point of jurisdiction, "the washington post" reports that the justice department prosecutors are planning to bring a, quote, significant portion of any charges that may come out of the documents investigation in south florida and not washington, d.c. that's according to people familiar with the matter. the paper reports legal basis for such a move is that the bulk of the conduct at issue in the investigation took place in the southern district of florida, specifically in and around mar-a-lago, which is in palm beach. that does not rule out the possibility of some charges being filed in the nation's capital, so, andrew, obviously we'll just wait and see, but it seems to me that they're looking at this obstruction of justice, the movement of documents, who drained the pool, things like that.

>> absolutely and this is one where legally the department of justice would be on safest grounds if it brought all of the potential charges in florida because there clearly is constitutional venue for all of the charges there absent some unusual facts that we're not aware of, but the issue of bringing the case there is sort of obvious because the jury pool is potentially better for donald trump, obviously, in florida than it would be in d.c. and also the judges in d.c. have far more experience dealing with classified documents cases. that's very much their bread and butter where it's going to be something much, much newer to the vast majority of judges sitting in florida. so in terms of speed, you are likely to go to trial sooner if the case were brought in d.c. but as you said the reporting right now is that it's more

likely that the department of justice is going to take the sort of legally more sound or less risky route of bringing the charges in florida. >> andrew, you and ryan goodman have written a comprehensive piece in "the washington post" looking ahead to what we might expect if, in fact, the former president is indicted in a historic move. you've got 11 things to look for so i'll let you pick your most important couple but what should we expect if it does come down even later this week potentially next week, what will you be looking for? >> well, one of the things that we've all been sort of speculating about is what exactly will they reveal about the nature of the documents? will they include in the charging document what exactly the former president took, just how significant was this information? the other obviously is who is the judge that gets assigned to in that as we've seen already

can have a huge impact on the case and particularly on the speed of the case, i mean, a lot of people are very focused on whether this will go to trial prior to the nomination process in the republican party so the election is something where the american public knows what a jury has found, so the judge will be quite important there. i'm also going to be interested to see whether there are allegations that the former president disseminated the documents, whether he just was keeping them or whether there is reporting he showed them to aides and visitors, so that would also make the case much more serious if there are those allegations. >> absolutely. >> all right. nbc news legal analyst andrew weissmann, thanks so much. i really appreciate it. mika, it's fascinating, seeing something over the last two days that we have yet to see and that is republicans running for

office. >> uh-huh. >> actually starting to tell the truth or at least some of the truth about donald trump. we saw chris christie go there and when i say go there, i mean actually tell the truth about who donald trump is and the impact of the last seven or eight years. i must say, i didn't expect mike pence to be as aggressive as he was yesterday, and i think it may suggest that a lot of these candidates know something is coming down the pike against donald trump, and that he's going to be in a far weakened state after this indictment. >> we will show you that tough talk from mike pence straight ahead. plus, why chris christie believes the 2016 republican field was unable to stop trump from winning the nomination. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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in 2015 and '16 when we ran the first time you had a situation where donald trump had no record to speak of. he had been on a tv show, had been a developer. there was no way to really make the case against him, and i think all of us, myself, jeb bush, marco rube bow, john kasich found it difficult to make the case. he could say whatever he wanted to say and there's no way to prove he couldn't. today he said he would build a wall, he didn't do it. about a quarter of the wall is built. he said mexico would pay for it. we haven't gotten our first peso. >> chris christie has been throwing major truth bombs. he is extremely aggressive as he launches his campaign. former vice president mike pence launched his bid for the white house and made the announcement during a rally outside des moines, iowa, yesterday afternoon. and it happened on his 64th

birthday. during his speech pence made his most aggressive attack against donald trump to date saying his former boss does not deserve to be back in the white house. >> january 6th was a tragic day in the life of our nation. but thanks to the courage of law enforcement, the violence was quelled and we reconvened the congress the very same day. to complete the work of the american people under the constitution of the united states. as i've said many times, on that fateful day, president trump's words were reckless. they endangered my family and everyone at the capitol. but the american people deserve to know that on that day president trump also demanded that i choose between him and the constitution.

now, voters will be faced with the same choice. i chose the constitution. i believe that anyone who puts themselves over the constitution should never be president of the united states. and anyone who asks someone else to put them over the constitution should never be president of the united states again. >> you know, it is absolutely fascinating. >> yeah. >> and, by the way, meachem, i got to say, you and me, i'm a baptist. we come from that protestant part of the faith where it's interesting. some people don't like converts. that's what we're -- that's what our faith is built on, you know, john wayne, john wayne wants to convert to christianity on his deathbed, amen.

bell rings -- >> take him. >> we'll take him, right? >> take him. you got to hunt where the ducks are, joe. >> exactly. >> got to hunt where the ducks are. >> whether you get that duck early or the morning or late at night, you know, it just -- but it is fascinating that the thing i found about some people on the left since i've been aligned with them in a fight against anti-democratic forces in america, fascist forces in america. they'll look back and say, well, you know, he did this or that or the other back, da, da, da, we want no part of him. no, we throw open the church doors and say, brothers, sisters, come in. we want you. >> come on in. >> that's why these people look at what mike pence did. yeah, he did a lot of stuff. we knocked him around hard but on january the 6th, he and dan quayle, they just may have helped save democracy and

yesterday he finally spoke truth to power. is this something to celebrate, or is this something like to attack, because he's had a bad record in the past. i like the conversion myself. even if it's a conversion for a day. >> absolutely. you know, one of the great lines in literature, mark twain as tom sawyer say an ee venge list came to town who was so good that even huck finn was saved till monday so you want to keep him till monday. i don't think it is to be attacked. vice president pence is an interesting example of the issues of the era, right? he absolutely and anyone who doubts the role of human agency in constitutional affairs, the story of mike pence is vital. had he not done what he did on january 6th, chaos would have

resulted. it is not implausible to argue that chaos would have unfolded over several days, possibly weeks which would then have forced the congress to send the election to the house of representatives which and the republican has in the unit rule a majority and presumably then donald trump would have been elected president by the house of representatives. that was the chaos theory. and if you think i'm making that up, that's what peter navarro and others laid out. that's what they wanted to do. mike pence stood in the breach. he gave a good speech yesterday, but then and i think someone else did this, maybe haley did this. if trump is the nominee, he will support the nominee, right. so there's the whole era in a news cycle, there's courage, there's an example of courage under fire and anybody and there may be center left folks who think you shouldn't celebrate

someone for doing their duty, it is just -- here's a human history biographical fact check, a president of the united states bears down on you in the oval office at the highest levels putting this choice to you, this faustian choice to you, it's not easy to do your duty. if it were easy you wouldn't call it duty. i do not believe on the conversion point of my baptist colleague, i don't think you apply a character test for a conversion. if you applied a character test you wouldn't need the conversion, right? >> right. >> that said, that said, what the last thing he said about supporting the nominee no matter what contradicts his very eloquent statement earlier in the day and i think that's the question that needs to be resolved. >> it's a trick question, joe.

>> yeah, yeah, let me synthesize that. rightly would look at that and we hear this all the time, first of all, if you were running for president in either party you'll be asked that question. and if you say no, you don't have a chance to win. let me also say they now have that as a requirement of the debate. >> exactly. >> everyone understands it is a phony question and understand donald trump will be asked this question. they understand that donald trump may lie about this question, say, well, yes, of course, i will but i'm going to win and then after he answers that question and loses, of course, he will not support the person and will do everything he can to stop ron desantis from being elected. i understand people focusing on that process question. it is a process question. you have to check the box then you can move forward and start your campaign. i strongly suspect that many of these people that will answer

that, oh, yeah, i have to check the box before i start my campaign will check that box and then when the time comes, i would not be surprised to see them backing off of that and i just also want to say this, mika, and i know that, again, this is another thing that people say, not just about mike pence but mitch mcconnell, other people who on january 6th stood up in ways behind the scenes and in front of cameras, you know, we would have all done the right thing. i know all of you and i know all of us in that position would have done the right thing. i also know we've spent the past seven years horrified that someone doing their duty, well, that wasn't such an easy thing. james madison did his duty but a lot of other people in the cabinet didn't do their duty. mike pence did his duty on january 6th, but we can aim at a lot more people who didn't do

their duty. that's not, you know, doing what you're supposed to do, being responsible, not a big deal really, except when nobody else around you is doing it and then, well, you know, you may have just done something fairly significant. >> coming up we'll turn to the latest headlines from wall street. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin has business before the bell straight ahead on "morning joe." there's a different way to treat hiv. it's every-other-month, injectable cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling. hiv pills aren't on my mind. a quick change in my plans is no big deal.

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at a town hall last night former vice president pence was asked by dana bash how can you say you would support a man that you say so corrupted the country. >> you just spent a lot of time both here and earlier today explaining why you think that

the former president did not uphold his oath to the constitution. so then how can you say that you would support him if he is the nominee? >> well because i don't think donald trump will be the nominee. >> but what if he is. >> i don't think -- i have great confidence in republican primary voters. we have a field of strong and experienced candidates that grew by one today, and i truly do believe that people here in iowa are going to recognize the challenges that we're facing and understand the different times call for different leadership. >> joe, so he's saying what he has to say there because as you referenced, there is a requirement that you say you'll support the nominee to get on the debate stage. i agree with you, that you can check that box and say, yes, i will support the nominee then as you get down the road completely walk away from it if you're doing well, the party will rally behind you. >> you know, jon meacham, there are historical parallels. i don't want anybody to say i'm

comparing anybody to abraham lincoln because i think lincoln was a singular figure in american history but mika will tell you, you know, on weekends on cold maine weekends, i like to get -- let there be light by jon meacham. i like to get your book and read it and think deep thoughts as i'm holding a cigar and trying to emulate you. [ laughter ] >> yeah, yeah. do you have a cardigan? >> yes, yes, exactly. >> i've seen you in a cardigan. >> this is what i want to sort of talk through with our friends watching right now that may be disagreeing with what we're saying. lincoln for, you know, from the time he got into the state legislature in 1834 until about 1864, he said some things that would shock most americans if they read them like alone by

themselves. he was even after the emancipation talking about colonization as you know and it was -- i always think about the horace greely letter, where the famous newspaper editor pushing him to move harder on emancipation and be more aggressive. lincoln, of course, as we both know, lincoln used that letter to say, hey, i don't care about slavery, i don't care about emancipation, you know, if -- he was doing this because he knew the country in the north was racist as well as the south. he said, he said, my job is to unite the union. now, if that is half slave, half free, you know what, that's fine with me. if that's all free, that's fine with me. i don't really care. i just want to save the union because he knew that's what he had to say and he had said a more horrible thing over the preceding 20 years because he knew how far he could push the

voters and if he got too far ahead of them he knew he would lose them and would lose the battle to emancipate slaves. i love the letter and please forgive me for going on too long. it's posh to understand. when lincoln was finally in a position to make a hard, fast decision, i love you talking about that letter that -- i think it was sent to the confederates and it was about the possibility of settlement because the north was exhausted by war. lincoln didn't think he could carry this on much longer because they were so exhausted and lincoln said, that's fine. let's talk about peace in 1864 and he said, here are my three conditions, but as you know, he said, don't even think about not freeing the slaves. don't even think about not taking emancipation off the table because if you do, well, we're going to fight to the bitter end and when the south

decided they were going to fight to the bitter end till annihilation to protect the immoral institution of slavery, lincoln and grant and sherman all understood, we're going to have to destroy the confederate army. this is total war. there's no more compromising with them. we're going to win. because in the end he was in a position at that point to make that call and to stop sort of toggling back and forth. >> right. so, the politic -- if politics were perfect, it wouldn't be politics, right? and reinhold neber said the sad duty of politics is to establish justice in a sinful world. it is a sad duty, sometimes happy warriors undertake it. sometimes there are moments of enormous progress and the shedding of light and realization of more perfection in the union but most of the

time it's not because most. the time we're frail and fallible people. we screw up a hell of a lot more than we get right. i wish that weren't the case. but it is the case. and that was what the founders saw. it's what lincoln saw. it's what fdr saw. fdr was being chided by a young socialist kind of student in the late '30s for not moving fast enough and he looked at him and said, young man, if i move too fast i'll look back and no one is there. and so that's the practical nature of what we do. that doesn't mean you don't call things by their name and i think that's one of the great shifts in recent years. the case, i believe, firmly we have to make and i'm not a democrat and i'm not a republican. >> right. >> i think the case we have to

make is that the constitution, the capacity of this big complicated democracy to solve problems is more important than any singular partisan vote and if you have a partisan brain and think, i'm going to vote for the person whose name is next to that letter no matter what, i don't think that's in the spirit of the constitution. >> uh-huh. >> before we move on we have to stop -- we have to congratulate the one viewer who took a long shot bet and made a ton of money. reinhold neber on the jon meacham bingo card. >> that was amazing. i'm really impressed. >> somebody just got paid. >> well done. it wasn't you, willie. was it? >> i wish. >> i could see you choosing that. okay, so we've looked at the historical perspective. as an expert on politics and the law, claire mccaskill, what's the political potential of if

there is an indictment this week or in the coming weeks, that, i mean, if we have a former president who is charged, but not convicted, you know, because the process i believe takes well over a year, correct? are we talking about, i mean, couldn't trump actually have the ability to whip up his base if he was running as someone indicted twice? i have a very, very fearful feeling about the potential here. >> no question, he's going to use it. you know, he loves playing, you know, the wronged victim by -- >> right. this would be the ultimate wrong. >> this would be the ultimate wrong and his group, that 30% of the republican primary voters are going to buy in completely on that. >> yeah. >> so the question is, will -- i'm not sure that trial would be after the election.

>> how does that work? >> i would think the trial would be typically a trial after a federal indictment is not a year in the future. >> oh, it's not? so what's the time -- >> a little quicker. if andrew were on, he would be more -- i think a lot of it depends on how quickly the judge wants to move and andrew mentioned the judge is in south florida, might take longer because they're not as familiar with the underlying law so i think that's all a question but i can't do jon meacham ever because he is so eloquent and i'm not even going to try but i have to say this, imagine how different our country would be today if all the people who are saying the obvious today said it in realtime and when you run for president, what you're asking the country to do is say, i'm the kind of leader that will speak out when it's hard to protect our precious democracy. bill barr, chris christie, ron desantis, nikki haley, tim

scott, asa hutchinson, all of these people have been senators and governors and cabinet members, all of them, all of them were radio silent in realtime when they saw what this man was doing. they knew what he was going to do, they watched him do it and none of them said a damn word and none of them deserve to be president because of it. >> coming up we've got much more on the investigation of former president donald trump as the feds set their focus on florida. we'll have a live report from the miami courthouse just ahead on "morning joe." ♪♪ with fastsigns, signage that gets you noticed turns hot lots into homes. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. for too long, big pharmaceutical companies

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all right, this one hits close to home. each year an estimated 1.3 million women in the u.s. typically those in their early 50s and many at the height of

their careers enter menopause, yet, it's a subject we don't talk nearly enough about especially in the workplace, in fact, a new study found that most peri and postmenopausal women believe menopause has negatively impacted their work life, yet only a small percentage believe their employers recognize the need for menopause specific benefits, and what exactly those would do in terms of retaining amazing talent. here to explain, editor of "forbes," huma abedin. this is so me. let's talk about this. there's a bank of america study that revealed a gap between how employers think about menopause employers think about menopause and what employees actually want. what were the key take-aways? >> three quarters of hr benefit managers say they've talked to

employees about menopause yet 3% of employees say they've talked to hr about menopause. we're talking about sleeplessness and mood changes and the ability to focus. all of these symptoms can correlate to how you feel at work and yet 13% of these women say they don't think their employer recognizes the need for menopause benefits. >> that's amazing. there was another study that talked about the cost of menopause as well, right? i took huge issue with it. >> the mayo clinic this spring found there was a $1.8 billion cost in lost time and working hours from women taking time off while they're experiencing menopause. there were studies in the u.k. who show women over 50 who've

experienced a negative menopause symptom are 30% more likely to leave the workforce. >> i have been experiencing some real issues with menopause and my ability to do my job and shifting and changing dealing with the symptoms, but i don't think it would cause me to leave my job, but i would never imagine talking to hr about it. are there opportunities here? >> i think it's giving women the confidence to talk about what it is that they need. women in their 40s and 50s saying this is what we need to support better support in the workplace. countries and leaders are already doing things about it.

in the u.k. there's been a movement under way where there have been hearings in parliament to show how to have menopause be supported in the workplace, like one of the benefits you get like fertility is a benefit in the u.s., 1 out of 3 companies in the u.k. have a policy to support women with symptoms of menopause. >> what are the symptoms that are impacting their work? >> they're losing sleep. there is brain fog. there are mental health effects. more people are feeling like they might need to spend time in counselling. there's the ability to focus. 9% of women think that menopause is affecting their career progression. we talk all the time with the 50 over 50 about how this is a segment of women stepping into their power, they are vibrant, they have ideas and experience

and wisdom that we can draw on. but if they've leaving the workplace because we're not allowing time off or flexible work hours, the other benefits are hormone replacement therapy. >> this is about how to improve our economy. it's better if we have more women in the workplace. we'll be more effective and more successful. >> there's an acceptance that comes with it. we accept that women need to take maternity leave. we want to create a work environment in which we can talk about these things. i have been struggling with brain fog. the work that i do here usually comes a lot easier to me. it's been harder lately. i actually ended up in the hospital because i thought something was really wrong.

>> part of it is educating women. what are the symptoms? >> i'm approaching those years. i don't necessarily know what all of those are. eric adams had a press conference a few months ago where he talked about making spaces in new york city more menopause friendly. >> i like that eric adams. what does a menopause friendly work space look like? >> maybe saying i'm not up to it, can i change my shift? this uniform is too hot. is there something else i can be wearing. there should not be shame around this topic. >> studies say the number one reason employers aren't offering benefits is employees aren't asking for them.

some people might not even know what to ask for. >> have you guys noticed our 50 over 50 lists are finding women? it's not hard. thousands of women every year nominate themselves for our 50 over 50 list around the world, because women in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s are stepping into their greatest power and strongest impact. it's not as much of an issue in terms of ageism, we just have to get the conversation going. speaking of 50 over 50 and the 30/50 summit which is 365 days a year important to us. we are close to announcing judges. is it happening today? >> we're going to be rolling out judges. >> we are taking the alumni of the past two years. the people of the community are helping to determine the next class of 50 over 50.

i'm going to announce two and huma is going to announce two. we have four categories, investment, innovation, impact and lifestyle. new american funding is the largest latino funding company in the u.s. then for the innovation category which looks at women leading companies in s.t.e.m. is fran capsutas. >> an fennukin was on the inaugural 2021 list. she's a business executive, former vice chair of bank of america. in the innovation category we

have padma from the 2022 list, a former ceo of cisco and motorola. she has founded a platform for book clubs called fable. >> we can't wait to reveal our third annual u.s. 50 over 50 list. stay tuned for asia, middle east, africa as well. maggie mcgrath, huma abedin, thank you both. still ahead, an early look at how voters are feeling about the republican primary field. e the republican primary field power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities,

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look at that. i don't think i'm going to leave the building. i'm going to have to stay overnight here at 30 rock. this is a live look at the haze hanging over new york city. the wildfires burning up in

canada are again having a major impact on millions of people across the northeast today. also ahead, it appears the justice department is inching closer to indicting donald trump for his handling of classified materials. we'll get expert analysis on the next steps in the case. meanwhile, trump's former running mate is his newest challenger in the the 2024 race for the republican nomination. has that ever happened before? i don't think it has. we'll have highlights from mike pence's campaign launch. plus, more fallout from the pga tour's deal with live golf as a top player on the tour calls out the organization for making him a sacrificial lamb. and andrew ross sorkin joins us with anti-trust concerns about the merger.

joining us is reverend al sharpton and jonathan lemire. good to have you both. what in the world is going on outside? is it safe? >> no, actually. yesterday's air quality was the worst of any major city on the planet. they had a ground stop earlier today at la guardia. no flights were coming in. the yankee game was postponed last night. it doesn't look much better today. the pattern of this last the few days, as the day goes on it gets darker and darker, the skies fill with orange smoke. it's like walking through a campfire. >> it's hard to predict. they don't truly know what's going to happen. the smoke is sort of stuck in place for a couple days.

i think today will be a little better than yesterday, but this is going to be with us for a few days. d.c. and philadelphia are having worse days today than yesterday. >> reporter: this morning, as millions are waking up to smokey cityscapes for a third day in a row, the white house stepping in. president biden extending critical support to canada, ordering all available federal firefighting assets to help contain the early-season wildfires ravaging that country and sending unprecedented plumes of smoke into the u.s. new york's skyline becoming almost unrecognizable throughout the day yesterday, taking on an apocalyptic-type haze. >> it's only getting worse. >> reporter: today, air quality alerts are impacting more than 100 million people across 16 states, prompting many to reach

for those pandemic-era masks. from the midwest to the northeast and into the mid atlantic, the heavy haze triggering a domino effect of flight and travel delays. sporting events, including two major league baseball games, were called off wednesday, as schools cancelled outdoor activities and google advisd employees to stay home. new york city has recorded the worst air quality in the world two days in a row. its aqi spiking above 400, well into the hazardous zone. an aqi of 150 is equivalent to about seven cigarettes a day. >> it's concerning. if you can see it, you know you're breathing it. >> how quickly can people start feeling symptoms? >> very quickly. >> we'll be following this. we turn now to the fast flurry of developments in the trump documents investigation.

first, sources tell nbc news prosecutors have informed attorneys for donald trump that the former president is a target of the justice department investigation into his handling of classified documents after leaving the white house. prosecutors are planning to make south florida the venue where they'll bring, quote, a significant portion of any charges that may come out of the documents investigation and not washington, d.c. additionally, a key aide to the former president testified yesterday before the grand jury in miami for about an hour about trump's handling of those classified documents. joining us from miami is former litigator and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. thank you for being on this rn morning. what did we learn about the

jurisdiction of this case now being partly in florida? >> reporter: let's take the taylor angle first. we expected that he would be there all day. actually his examination appears to have been short and surgical and, at least according to public reporting, focused on a statement he gave or finalized on behalf of the former president in february of last year when this investigation hadn't yet even started, but the national archives was looking to recover classified documented and other documents in the former president's position. we understand the aide took a statement from the former president that denied he had any classified documents in his possession. the lawyers decided that

statement couldn't fly. why? presumably because it wasn't true. the aide was confronted with the statement that the president prepared for himself and asked about his involvement in crafting what later turned out to be the acceptable released public statement. he said he answered truthfully and answered every question. he seems to be suggesting he never took the fifth amendment, which means he is secure that he has no criminal exposure or that he's been offered some sort of immunity deal. certainly he's not a voluntary cooperator. his tweet suggested that he is still hand in glove of the former president, because he is the head of trump's super pac maga inc. >> the news that federal prosecutors have informed donald trump's defense team that the former president is a target of this investigation, what does

that mean to you? what does it say to you technically and, more broadly, about the likelihood of charges coming soon? >> reporter: target is one of the words we use to describe people who are somehow a character in an investigation. you have a target, a witness, a subject. the target is the worst position to be in. it means an indictment is likely, that you are a focus of the criminal investigation. unless your lawyers can convince the department of justice or the special counsel's office that an indictment against you is either legally inadvisable or not in the best interest of justice, they are going to look to bring an indictment against you provided that a grand jury votes it out. it's bad news for donald trump. it's not advising to us, but it's confirmation that this is headed rapidly toward an indictment. some folks have been reported that trump legal world was told he was a target before the

monday meeting at the department of justice with jack smith. that's important, because that monday meeting appears to have been the last-ditch opportunity for the trump legal team to go in and talk with jack smith and his fellow prosecutors and basically explain to him why they shouldn't charge the former president. they tried to focus on their exception to prosecutorial misconduct, and our understanding is they didn't get anywhere. i think we are rapidly heading toward an indictment. they just needed to wrap up some loose ends here, via testimony. it remains to be seen exactly how much time is left, but if i were a betting person, i would say we will likely see an indictment of some sort this month and not next. >> for those on the west coast just joining us, the difference

between the florida grand jury and the d.c. grand jury, does that mean that the president could not be indicted in both, does it mean he could be? what is the reason that you're hearing why we're looking at two different grand juries in two different places? >> reporter: rev, i'm so glad you redirected me because that was part of mika's first question that i didn't get to. it doesn't necessarily mean the president won't be charged in both jurisdictions, but increasingly the department of justice has shifted focus to miami. they can take witness testimony from another jurisdiction and essentially import it to a florida grand jury. what it likely means is that florida is the best and fairest jurisdiction in which to bring charges, because the majority of the alleged criminal misconduct took place here. if you think about the public

reporting of what took place with the documents, that makes sense. the obstruction occurred here, the retention occurred here, and maybe most importantly, the dissemination. we've heard stories of trump taking out documents in his office in mar-a-lago and showing them to aides and donors and friends. all of that took place squarely within the southern district of florida. if they can't tie that alleged conduct to d.c., it is really difficult to make out an indictment here and not legally on up the and up. it's not what's supposed to happen. that's why in the paul manafort case, he was charged in d.c. and the eastern district of virginia, because he refused to waive venue. we could be headed toward a situation like that too. if the "washington post" reporting is to be believed, we'll see the bulk of charges

here. >> lisa rubin, thanks. on the political side, former vice president mike pence formally launched his bid to take on donald trump and win the white house. he made the announcement in des moines, iowa, yesterday. it was his 64th birthday, by the way. made his most aggressive attack on donald trump saying he does not deserve to be back on the white house. >> january 6th was a tragic day in the life of our nation. but thanks to the courage of law enforcement, the violence was quelled and we reconvened the congress the very same day to complete the work of the american people under the constitution of the united states. as i've said many times, on that fateful day president trump's words were reckless.

they endangered my family and everyone at the capitol. the american people deserve to know that on that day president trump also demanded that i choose between him and the constitution. now voters will be faced with the same choice. i chose the constitution. i believe that anyone who puts themselves over the constitution should never be president of the united states. and anyone who asks someone else to put them over the constitution should never be president of the united states again. >> joining us now, publisher of the bulwark sarah longwell. good to see you. mike pence and chris christie have both taken on donald trump in a more frontal way that anyone else.

both of those men were along for the ride with donald trump for a long time until they weren't. is this case against donald trump coming from them and from pence in particular compelling? >> i mean, it's compelling to me. i think it's incredibly important to have these conservatives making this case about donald trump to a republican and a conservative audience. unfortunately, it's not very compelling to voters. in fact, i'm not sure over the many, many months of focus groups that i've done where i've asked people about different presidential candidates, there was nobody they dislike more than mike pence. he just really is in a sour spot with voters. for some voters, they think, hey, this guy stood alongside him the whole time, very subservient to donald trump. on the other side, many think

he's a traitor, that what he did on january 6th was wrong. i don't know why he's running. because he does come out strong sometimes and he is clear about january 6th, there's other places he's a lot less willing to go after trump, like in his town hall last night where he wasn't willing to say trump should be indicted right after saying he believed that nobody was above the law. i think that trying to play both those angles is going to find him with no twenty constituency whatsoever. >> i don't think he would have a shot, because even though he was vice president for four years, we're all saying we still don't really know a whole lot about him. i don't like how trump was in your face with everything, but pence is almost too far in the

other direction. >> i can't give a single detail. i know what he looks like, but i never saw him do anything specific. i almost feel like he's the donald trump equivalent of kamala harris, where i can't name a single thing that she's done. >> well, that's not particularly compelling. give us what you found from these evangelical voters, which are meant to be the core of pence's constituency? >> it's honestly brutal. these are supposed to be the people who like him. they say he's a nice guy, but he should get out of politics. they say he's so boring. one guy said something like the only people that voted for him are people who are related to him. the voters have been unequivocal. i've had people call me a lot

and say what are you hearing in focus groups about mike pence? i've invited reporters to come in and listen, because i want everybody to understand i'm not making this up. these voters are savage to him. one thing i've never understood, there is no way mike pence's team isn't running their own focus groups. i assume they are hearing very much the same thing i am. so he has to be aware that in his version of the republican party, there just isn't an appetite for mike pence. >> rev, we can put mike pence in a category in the last couple days with governor christie in coming out and actually saying donald trump's name and talking about his failings. christie's been even more specific there. that's important to have out there in the conversation, a little bit of truth about donald trump within the primary. the question is, is there an

audience for it? is there anybody in a republican primary going in and saying, yeah, maybe this time i will go for chris christie over donald trump? >> i can't see where there's an audience for that. i can't see where this helps them get votes. i think it's good they're finally saying something. just because someone comes down the aisle at the end of the church service and says i repent doesn't mean i'm going to have them preach the sermon next sunday. i think that's what a lot of voters are going to say to pence and christie. >> my question to you ultimately ends up about trump winning the primary even if he's indicted several more times. that seems like a real possibility, because these people running against him, the fact that they are saying

something now, that's great, thanks for finally getting to the truth about who won the election. thank you for finally calling january 6th a bad day. that's great. we'll take it. people who love the truth and think we should be discussing and debating facts in our politics, that's great. but this entire time that trump has either been in the presidency or after it, he has been pushing disinformation. these people were part of it, because they said nothin and they were in there watching it firsthand. to me, it seems like if another indictment comes along, this could play to trump's favor. he has a way of turning negative things right toward himself, right to another nomination.

>> yeah. something i've observed in the focus groups over the years when trump is impeached, when he is convicted of things, there's this thing called the rally around trump effect where voters want to defend him because they perceive the people attacking him to be their enemies. so they get defensive on his behalf. the problem for his challengers is that the voters demand that they also defend him. so people like desantis or nikki haley find themselves in a terrible position where if they condemn trump for these things, they lose the voters they need to win a republican primary. trump sucks up all this oxygen and brings all the grievance he loves to bring into politics, and the other candidates find themselves to be players in his central drama and it's all about

him. these other candidates, what christie and pence are doing is valuable because it's creating more of a permission structure for the other candidates to take on donald trump. he's the frontrunner by a mile. if they don't start attacking him or trying to make this case to voters, voters won't hear it. christie is right, you can't go around trump, you have to go through him. some news that just crossed right now, pat robertson has died at the age of 93. he founded the christian broadcasting network in 1961, building it into a global empire. robertson was known for his 700 club television show, which helped him gain a massive following. he's credited with making religion a pillar of republican politics, creating the christian

coalition. he was also known for his on-air pronouncements which drew frequent criticism. he often spoke about god's judgment of america on issues like abortion, homosexuality, pornography and even the teaching of evolution. pat robertson has passed away at the age of 93. coming up on "morning joe," the pga tour's merger with live golf has many questioning the future of endorsements and sponsorships in the sport, as well as how regulators will react once that deal is finalized. that deal is finalized. there's a different way to treat hiv.

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pga tour commissioner jay monaghan yesterday addressed criticism he has received, much of it from his own players, over his role in brokering a merger with liv golf backed by saudi arabia. kaylee hartung has the latest. >> it's hard for me to not sit up here and feel somewhat like a sacrificial lamb. >> reporter: rory mcilroy among those completely surprised by this week's stunning shift in the sport. the pga tour announces it plans to partner with saudi arabia's public investment fund, creating a new for-profit company along with the pga tour. >> it's a monumental change to the entire structure of the sport. >> reporter: professional golf has been in turmoil the past two years after the saudi-backed liv tour disrupted the game, triggering lawsuits and feeling

animosity among the game's top players and fans. pga commissioner jay monaghan offering this reassurance. >> i say their loyalty will be rewarded. >> when you hear commissioner monaghan say loyalty will be rewarded, what does that look like? >> he has a blank checkbook now to make all these problems disappear. >> reporter: mcilroy, a four-time major champ and liv's most outspoken critic addressing the tension that exists. >> there still have to be consequences to actions. the people that left the pga tour, we can't just welcome them back. that's not going to happen. >> reporter: though this partnership agreement ends all pending litigation, monaghan is facing criticism. 911 victims who protested liv golf calling it an attempt at sports washing terrorism. >> i did not communicate to very

important constituents, including the families of 911. i regret that. i really do. >> reporter: now with billions of saudi dollars expected to be invested in golf, even mcilroy believes ultimately it will be good for the sport. >> at the end to have day, money talks and you've got to have them as a partner. >> rory mcilroy, that's the story of this whole affair, which is that he was offered a reported $400 million to join liv golf, turned it down on moral grounds and was allowed to continue by the commissioner and the pga tour as the defender of the pga tour, a critic of liv. he was critical of guys who were his friends who left. you heard the frustration in his voice. you also heard him turning the page. this is what it is. it's going to be good long-term

for golf. i don't like it, but here we are. >> if he's going to keep playing golf, he's going to have to play in a league that is now co-owned by the saudis. it is saudi arabia's soft power push. they're trying to do the same in soccer. i think other sports should be on notice. tennis has been speculated. it's unlimited resources more or less. money talks here. it is extraordinary hypocrisy that jay monaghan was so critical of the saudis, defending the 911 families, defending jamal khashoggi, and once the numbers got big enough and the pga's legal fees grew charge enough, he backed down and they merged. >> he said i forget to tell the 911 families ahead of time. who did he tell? let's bring in andrew ross

sorkin. good to see you. from a business point of view, what more do we know about how this came together and why the pga tour flipped so completely? >> well, i hate to call it some grand negnegotiation, but you cd argue the saudis were brilliant negotiators. they do liv, i think knowingly thinking if we can box pga into a corner, they have to make a decision. if we say you're now in a box, let's make a deal. that's really how, unfortunately this happened to the extent that it's unfortunate for the pga. they're putting a spin on it that it's going to improve the game of golf. given the circumstances they're in, that part may well be true. the big question now is, how the

american public reacts, how sponsors react to this. there are dozens of sponsors that sponsor not just the players themselves, but the league. there are media companies that have long been involved in the pga. usa today has been a marketing partner of the pga, fortune magazine is a sponsor, even comcast business has a relationship with the pga. so how the big companies react to this, whether they try to take a moral stand related to some of the huma rights abuse issues. how does the american public see saudi arabia today? >> liv's calculation is as long as we have all the best players, and they do with this merger, people are going to watch. i guess we'll see. another question for you, andrew, as we talk about this

smoke that has almost completely enveloped new york city, washington, the midwest coming down from the wildfires of canada. we talk about things being shut down and delayed and postponed. what's the economic impact of all this? >> hundreds of billions of dollars likely. it's hard to put a real estimate on it. you're seeing ground stoppages and delays in terms of air traffic this morning. there are health concerns that also have health costs. those will have to be added into this equation. anecdotally, for those who were trying to order things online this morning actually oddly have a benefit, amazon and the like, fresh direct and the like, folks doing delivery service, that's a huge boom in business today. there's going to be a lot of money spent, but overall losses.

this is something that continues. we're seeing something like $250 billion a year annually that relates to wildfires and the like and also insurance costs that will likely go up over time. this is not just a dangerous issue personally for so many of those living in the northeast this morning, but it's an economic one. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. for more on the economy, we want to bring in the cofounder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader. you have new polling that shows that women are still pessimistic about the state of the economy. this is the latest survey from all in together and echelon insights. 46% of women say they think the country's situation will be worse in sixth months' time. what's going on?

>> we've been polling women voters back to 2018 on the regular trying to understand the key issues and concerns. we wanted to go deep on what's going on with republican women voters given the upcoming presidential primary. the economy remains hugely important, but particularly for republican voters. democrats are less concerned about it. it is a top three concern for all voters. about 50% of voters say they're concerned about the economy. >> why? >> it's really interesting. it's driven heavily by their concern about specific cost of living costs like housing costs, but they're also really pessimistic about the future. about 64% say they think the economy will be worse in six months. if you consider the top voting issue for republican women and a top voting issue for republican men, the candidates are barely talking about this.

the focus of the entire campaign so far has been on social issues and culture wars, not on the economy, which their own voters are saying they're very worried about. >> the fact that their own voters are more concerned about their jobs, their economic standing than the culture wars, why do you think and is there any data you've gotten that says why the candidates are so stuck on the culture wars? is it that they are trying to play to trump's base, or are they just tone deaf to their own voters? >> it's a really interesting political question, but if you look at the fight within the republican party on the debt ceiling limit, there's a lot of division between what the solutions are. you have congress held hostage with votesaround mccarthy's deal on the debt ceiling. there's not a clear message.

republicans are saying this matters. this is a potentially winning issue for republicans. i don't understand why they're not focusing on it. >> let's take the other side, how democrats feel. the white house point to the numbers and the job growth and the rebound since the height of the pandemic. they acknowledge inflation is still an issue. and there's enough warning signs on the horizon that we're not out of the clear for a recession between now and the election. should they lean into this issue more? >> it's top three, but it's not the top. guns and abortion are the top issues for democratic voters. there are some really interesting details here that i think are super important for democrats. young voters under 29 are very worried about their job prospects. there was a lot of concern in our data from young voters about

whether they'll have jobs. i don't know what that's driven by. maybe it's the concern about a.i., maybe it's the kind of jobs or the shift in working today that young people don't want to be in the office. specifically housing costs and child care costs for democrats. >> cofounder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader, thank you. coming up, republican presidential candidate tim scott has made headlines for his congressmens on the topic of systemic racism. we racism. we when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis keeps flaring, put it in check with rinvoq,

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. you have indicated that you don't believe in systemic racism. >> the fact of the matter is we've had an african-american president and vice president and two secretaries of state. in my home city, the police chief is an african-american who's now running for mayor. the head of the highway patrol is african-american. in 1975, there was about 15% employment in the african-american community for the first time in the history of the country it's under 5%. progress in america is palpable. it can be measured in generations. what i'm suggesting is yesterday's exception is today's rule. >> south carolina senator and presidential candidate tim scott earlier this week arguing that america does not have systemic racism. his position stands in direct opposition to that of the

majority of historians, including our next guest. dr. kendi's book "stamped from the beginning" has been released . >> as you watch that clip of senator scott, aside from the fact that you and i probably vehemently disagree, he didn't really answer the question, because if there is systemic racism, naming a few people elected doesn't deal with the systemic problem from the economic opportunities to lifestyle and all of that. explain what systemic racism means. it doesn't mean you don't have some that will break through.

but it's a system that's set up that's different from black to white. >> precisely. so when we understand racism, we should understand it as the collection of policies and practices that are leading to racial inequities and are substantiated by ideas of racial hierarchy. that means you have black people who are impoverished. i think senator scott wanted to focus on individuals, because there certainly have been individuals who over the generations have been rising into positions that previous generations would not have been able to. but at the same time, you have black people whose votes are

being suppressed. both are happening at the same time. you can have individuals rising into positions and communities still being excluded. >> when you look at 60 years since the march on washington, black homeownership and black wealth is less now than it was in '63 and the comparison black to white is almost 10-1. do you think that senator scott is not raising these issues because to have to deal with these issues, he would have to then come with what is your economic plan, what is your plan in terms of criminal justice. he kind of ducks the issue of why you ought to be running for president by just saying, well, there's no systemic racism. clearly the devil is going to be in the details that he's going to have to debate what his economic plan, criminal justice plan and others. is he really very strategic in

how he's dealing with this? >> i think so. because if the issue is a structure, if the issue is racism, which is to say the issue is racist policies or bad policies that are specifically harming particular groups, then that calls for a presidential candidate to, as you stated, offer more corrective better policies. but if racism does not exist, if policies are not the problem and black people are still more likely to be killed by police or incarcerated, then there's only one other explanation, which is there's something wrong with black people and they're the problem. what it also allows for is someone like senator scott to say i'm not the problem like most black people. i am hard working, not like most

black people. i have risen because i'm taking personal responsibility, unlike most black people. many of his voters, that's precisely what they can't to hear. >> let's talk about the book "stamped from the beginning." there's a new graphic novel edition of it out. for people who don't know the story, you have five intellectuals over the course of history, thomas jefferson and others. what's the thread that ties them together? >> each of these intellectuals were at really the center of this longstanding debate among americans. i sort of just referenced that debate. is the problem racism or is the problem black people? and anti-racist intellectuals have made the case the racial groups are equals.

there's nothing superior or inferior about any racial group. racist intellectuals have said the problem, the cause of disparities is black people, there's something wrong with them. we chronicle those racist ideas over the course of history. >> the book is called "stamped from the beginning," a graphic history of racist ideas in america. thank you so much for coming on the show. and this story now, the white woman who is accused of fatally shooting her black neighbor has been arrested in florida amid pressure from activists and some politicians. susan lorenz has been charged with manslaughter with a firearm, negligence and assault for the shooting death of her neighborhood aj owens. owens, a mother of four, was shot through the door after trying to confront lorenz about

an earlier altercation with her children. the suspect was allegedly upset that owens' kids were playing in a nearby field. aj owens' funeral will be held on monday. reverend al sharpton has accepted a request from the family to deliver a eulogy. reverend al, tell us about this woman and this terrible tragedy. >> this is as bad as it gets. i talked to the mother along with attorney ben crump, who's handling this for the family. she said she's the mother of three children, was really a committed mother. the three. the grandmother who i talked with is one who works. she's going to have to relocate to take care of the children. and i think sometimes we lose the human element.

these three kids watched their mother get shot for knocking on the door of a woman who had engaged in some name calling and badgering. the mother walked up and knocked on the door to ask the lady. the woman shouted through the door and they watched their mother i die. it doesn't get that bad. and it doesn't get worse than that. and i think that one of the thing that i want to i say and the family is have we become so cold now to mothers standing up to their daughters can be killed. and we a act like this is normal. we saw a young man knocked on the door in kansas city and they shot him through the door. so we are normalizing not only people kill people, you don't have to see the surks. just shoot through the door.

this is horrific. i think we've got to really raise it to national attention. >> reverend al, thank you. coming up, governor newsom is seeking a 28th amendment to the constitution that takes on one of the nation's most divisive issues. that brand new proposal is next on "morning joe." ew proposal is on "morning joe. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems.

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welcome back. in an interview with nbc news, vicinity newsom made an historic announcement that could affect the sbar entire country when it comes to gun safety. jacob soboroff has more. >> why a constitutional amendment and why now? >> why now is pretty self-evident. a the lot of the laws we passed are being rolled back. >> to be clear, you're not calling for the abolition of the second amendment. >> no, this is an existential

crisis. >> reporter: saying he's fed up with congress's inability to act, gavin newsom is proposing something never done before on gun control. having states to pass a constitutional amendment on guns to implement four measures nationwide. raise the age for buying a firearm to 21, mandate background checks, require a reasonable waiting period for gun purchases, and ban the sale of assault rifles to civilians. he will need two-thirds of states to to propose the same aelt. that could trigger a constitutional convention where three quarters of states would have to vote question. >> more than half of these legislatures are controlled by republicans. how is this possible? >> it's possible because their constituency demands it. >> reporter: a recent fox news poll found most americans are in favorite of these measures. >> there's not a parent out there, you included, that doesn't think about these things when you send your kids to school. >> you know very well what

critics are going to say. california has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. in the first month of the year, 18 people were killed. that's what they are going to say. what do we need this for? >> gun death rate today is 73% lower than texas. these federal judges want to turn america into texas. we cannot let that happen. >> the 19 theth amendment to the constitution that gave women the right to vote, it took 40 years or so. do you think this will happen in your lifetime? >> i hope so. if you don't start it will never happen. >> jacob soboroff reporting. what do you think? >> what he's proposing, the measures have broad public support for polling. it is extraordinarily difficult to get an amendment added to the constitution. he acknowledges in the interview how unlikely this would be, but he's trying to take a stand and be a leader on gun issues because he's expected to run for president in 2028. he thinks this will be a suggest

issue there and one that matters in california. >> he's right about how every parent feels. i can't imagine there's a parent who doesn't send their kid to school without thinking about the fear. >> without question. this specific idea is a long shot, but he's making a larger point in putting down a marker which is we heard many republicans say, this is the price of freedom. we have the second amendment people are going to die. there's nothing we can do about it. he's saying let's try, let's make progress on the margins. >> let's try, let's try now. i think it's not only him in 2028, it should be in '24. >> that does it for us this morning. this morning. and success requires drive, resilience, - wow. - get it there. and sometimes luck. but what if luck had less to do with it? what if we had the tools to help us practice smarter, the insights to gain an edge, and the data to inform our strategy? taking our games from that...

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