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i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. attack and defend. while donald trump and his allies blast away at special counsel jack smith, one of trump's former attorneys tries to explain away those classified documents. so, if they weren't originals, just copies, does that mean there's no crime? plus, the air in this city today isn't just nasty, it's historically bad. forcing the closure of everything from broadway to the bronx zoo. the thickening blanket of smoke now settling over philly, wilmington and beyond as well. so when is it going to go away? and a truly surprising decision. a pair of conservatives on the supreme court helping deliver a big win for voting rights in the deep south. we'll explain that in just a minute. we begin with federal prosecutors putting to rest any doubt about whether or not donald trump is directly in the special counsel's sights. nbc news has learned that jack smith informed trump's team on monday that their client is, in

fact, a target of a classified documents investigation. in other words, he believes he has evidence indicating trump committed a crime. and another new detail not about when, but where, charges would likely be brought. "the washington post" now reporting that a, quote, significant portion of any charges against trump will be brought in south florida close to mar-a-lago. trump's former defense attorney tim parlatore was on "the last word" last night, and he talked about the shift in place. >> if you look at the allegations, nothing happened in d.c. if it was document retention, it happened in florida. if there was obstruction, it happened in florida. but, as a special counsel, if all you're going to do is get to the end of this and just write a report, it doesn't matter where the grand jury was because there's no motion with venue or anything like that. >> that's an indicator that the florida grand jury to you is an indicator of maybe moving closer to indictment. >> it's an indicator that they're considering it.

>> yeah. i want to bring in ken can be in miami, a former law professor at the university of alabama and matthew dowd, the senior msnbc political analyst. okay. joyce, you heard what parlatore said. what's the legal significance in your mind, if indeed this is a shift to florida? >> so i don't find this to be very surprising because prosecutors have to have venue to bring criminal charges. that means they have to bring those charges in the district where the crimes were committed. and as tim parlatore says, the southern district of florida is an inarguable venue in this case. that matters because it's one less issue for prosecutors to deal with on appeal f there is a conviction, following possible indictments. this is a smart choice for prosecutors. the southern district of florida, the miami u.s. attorney's office, highly regarded. it's an extra large office that means it's one of the biggest

doj u.s. attorney's offices and they are well versed in handling complicated trials. they're good matchup. >> nbc news has confirmed that trump is now a target of this investigation, and, you know, some people might say i thought he was a target all along. what's new here? what does this tell us about where the case stands right now? >> chris, the significance of the target notification is that there's specific rules for that in the u.s. attorney manual that justice department prosecutors follow. it comes at the end of the investigation designed to give a defendant one last chance to come before the grand jury and recipients of target letters are almost always indicted at some point shortly thereafter. it's different from anything else we've seen in this case. it's another sign that case is wrapping up. a target letter likely preceded the meeting between donald trump's attorneys and senior officials at the justice

department at which we're reporting they also told them verbally that trump was the target. it really is a deeply significant sign that this investigation is reaching its conclusion. chris? >> so, joyce, let's talk about possible defenses here. lawrence o'donnell asked parlatore last night about the classified documents found in trump's desk, something he called the smokiest gun in the whole case. here's what the attorney said. >> simply the fact that it has a classification marking on it f it does have a classification marking on it, doesn't make it automatically some type of contraband. it has to be national defense information. one. two, under the presidential records act we're talking about original documents. not a single one of the those marked documents are originals. they're all copies. every single one of them. if he has a photo copy of a document, even if it does have a classification marking on it, but doesn't constitute national defense information or if it was

declassified, if it's not currently national defense information then no, that wouldn't be the smokiest gun. >> so could that be a possible defense? these were copies, not originals. >> so setting aside for the minute that he's only talking about the documents found in the desk drawer -- and there are many others -- that was just a jumble of word salad. it wasn't a defense. he was conflating elements from different charges. the government has options here. it could charge trump under the espionage act. you can charge copies under the espionage act which deals more with the nature of the information contained in the items. there is a possible statute, 18 u.s. code 2071 that addresses retention and concealment of documents, and there is some case law that suggests that that statute might only apply to originals. not entirely clear if you can reach copies with that. of course, the government can always charge here straight up

theft of government property, which does not distinguish between originals and copies. plenty of opportunities for prosecutors to seize upon here. they will fit the ones that are the best tailored to the evidence available to them. >> the other thing that we've seen -- i mean this isn't necessarily unusual, ken, but with all this talk about maybe reaching a conclusion -- donald trump was very busy on social media, and he was posting ability these allegations of prosecutorial misconduct, something parlatore hinted at as well in the interview last night. what can you tell us about this back and forth? >> well, chris, i think defendants often raise allegations of prosecutorial misconduct, occasionally they succeed. i mean there have been significant justice department prosecutions that have failed because prosecutors broke the rules. for example, didn't turn over information that they should have to the defense. rmation thad have to the defense. in this case we should be

skeptical. clearly the justice department does not appear to be dissuaded by these allegations which were raised, we believe, in that meeting between trump attorneys and justice department attorneys. and look, it suggests that trump's lawyers are really not keen on arguing the facts here or the law, and are arguing that their client is not guilty of these potential charges but more concerned with arguing about how the doj played hardball. they did play hardball in this case. getting trump's lawyer to testify against him, citing the crime fraud exception, that was a big step, and we'll have to see whether the justice department did anything wrong in the process of prosecuting this case. chris? >> i want to ask one more question if i can, joyce, about a different investigation. we learned steve bannon was subpoenaed back in may to testify in the january 6th investigation. what do you see as the significance of that? >> well, steve bannon already faces trial on one set of charges for failure to testify. there's nop reason to believe

that he'll do anything other than come in and take the fifth amendment and decline to cooperate again. but this is a smart gam bit by prosecutors because prosecution for bannon could be important. because this is a second consecutive case he would be looking at more time in prison if, for instance, he refused to comply with the subpoena. it's a gamble to be sure. there's a lot of upside here and the question with bannon is the same question that exists with many of these other witnesses, mark meadows included, are they willing to go to prison for donald trump? >> so as we wait for this and everybody, matthew, has their own idea about when this decision will finally be made, how do republicans handle it, particularly if there is another indictment? i mean, mike pence was asked about it last night. let me just play that little clip. >> if donald trump is convicted of a crime, and you're elected

president, would you pardon him? >> well, i don't want to speak about hypotheticals. there are real issues the american people are facing and rather than talking about that, i want to talk about what the people in iowa were talking about, the failed policies dividing the administration. >> you can bet every single republican candidate is going to be asked some variation of this question. maybe just about every day going forward. i guess the question politically is will the base let them get away with anything but a yes? can they say let's not deal with hypotheticals here? >> well, i always laugh when candidates have been through this when they say i'm not dealing with hypotheticals. they're running for office. every question is a hypothetical. they're not holding the office of president. everything they're asked about, whether policy, government spending, international relations, it's all hypothetical until they hold the office. that's why we want answers before we vote for them. you can dedye verge the field into two groups how they're

going to handle this question. the mike pence answer, which is probably going to be the ron desantis answer, which is probably going to try to avoid it as long as possible because they seem afraid to take on directly a candidate that they want to beat. bizarrely that's the only way you beat. the other group of candidates which i would include chris christie and asa hutchinson in this group, i think every time bad news is going to show up in this case about donald trump and every time he accumulates baggage they will jump on it in a forceful way. the answer is asa hutchins and chris christie give on this will be unforgiving of donald trump than what we hear from mike pence and ron desantis and even nikki haley. >> on the democratic side if there is another indictment do they let chris chrissy and asa hutchinson do the work for them or do they say anything or keep quiet? >> i think they let all of us do the work for them.

that's what my advice would be. let the republicans whoev is going to attack him attack him. let the media explain what it means. another thing donald trump has been indicted for and could be convicted of. if i were the democrats and joe biden, especially because joe biden is actually under investigation for some documents we haven't heard about recently, it behooves all of them to let all of us explain what it means and examine whether or not, you know, donald trump, how much of his guilt or innocence is explored in this. if i were them, i would let everybody else do the dirty work for them. >> ken and joyce, thank you. matthew, thank you. see you in a bit. eerie pollution skies putting 100 million, maybe more at risk. we're tracking the haze choking citizens up and down the east coast. what you need to stay safe in 60 seconds.

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large swaths of the united states remain under scary levels of air quality alerts. take this live look, new york city, shrouded in a smoke cloud. it has the worst air quality rating in the entire world. that's according to the aqi air tracking service. air quality rating is considered safe under 50. they've exceeded 400 in some places, code red, due to canadian wildfires. the impact? sports events have been canceled, kids told to stay home from school, air travel severely delayed and if people are going outside a lot of them are reaching for their masks. new york city's mayor was succinct but pointed. >> it wasn't until i went outdoors and basically said what the hell is this? >> good question. the bigger picture, "the washington post" describes an

eerie, unsettling, throat burning smoke that scientists say could become a more common occurrence in a warming world. i want to bring in george solis from philadelphia, which saw the worst air quality in more than a decade according to the philadelphia inquirer. meteorologist bill karins is with us along with alonzo plow, the chief science officer at the robert wood johnson foundation and former director of emergency preparedness and response in the l.a. county department of health. good to have have all of you here. the faa has grounded departure from the philly airport because of low visibility. what's the scene like where you are? >> good afternoon. good news to report, all flights are resuming normally. earlier this morning they did a stoppage because of the low visibility. delays are, obviously, happening at laguardia and newark still. somewhere between an hour and a half hour depending on the airline. of course what we're looking at

here in philadelphia, things are starting to improve, but airline officials warn that, obviously, things are fluid, things could change as they have been over the last several hours. many travelers i have been speaking with are wearing those masks. they feel like it is kind of like a throwback to the pandemic era because they simply know this air quality is hazardous, unsafe and make sure they are protected not just outside of the airport but in here as well. and again, right now, things looking pretty good as far as some of the delays. a handful here at the airport. take a tloins my conversation with some travellers who wanted to take some of those precautions as i mentioned >> this is the first time i've worn a mask since we had to for the pandemic. the air quality is just so bad today that i figured for my own well being it was better to put the mask on. >> ever seen anything like this. >> never. >> with the smoke and haze in philadelphia? >> never. >> out of new york?

>> like a bomb. it was like a bomb. >> yeah. of course it wasn't nearly as apocalyptic looking as the manhattan skyline looked yesterday. it was eerie driving to the airport this morning. the schuykill river buried in the haze. boathouse row, some of the landmarks that people are used to seeing, completely gone because of this smoke. many hoping that we're seeing the worst of it, but again, as i mentioned airport and airline officials saying keep the apps handy and check on your flights because delays could happen. we're seeing a handful still. we're not out of the woods. in philadelphia things starting to look better. >> alonzo, east coasters are accustomed to dealing with bad weather but this is different. i want to play more from new york, some of the people we've been talking to about their thoughts on all of this. >> -- smell like straight barbecuing. it's only getting worse. you can barely breathe.

>> yesterday was definitely like kind of other worldly. like 2:00, i went out to get groceries and it was like yellow and orange and sent a picture to one of my friends and i was like no, this isn't a filter, this is what it looks like. >> in d.c., i actually kind of took a step back when one of our white house reporters described the air around the white house as tactile. so the obvious question is, how can people keep themselves safe? >> well, i think it's better to stay inside. that's the predominant message. this is a concern to children and elderly, particularly children with asthma. this is a tremendous asthma trigger. the existing particulates in the air, this compounds the problem of asthma and the greater prevalence of asthma of low income children. so we really worry about that as an asthma trigger. these levels of pollution can cause death and i think it is that significant of a problem.

it's a direct correlation and cause of climate change, of manmade climate change and unfortunately, these events are going to continue to happen and what we see in the west as a more usual occurrence in wildfires, can now happen anywhere in the country. >> so how concerned should we be if we're looking at this as just one instance? long term is this what we're going to be living sfwhits. >> the unfortunate answer at the moment is yes. these are highly unusual, high temperatures, much earlier than the usual wildfire season. it turns a forest into a tinderbox. lightning strikes will cause these fires. it happens in the west quite often, but as we, again, this is the impact of climate change on our immediate health and any forested area, subject to these kind of temperatures and drought

conditions, any lightning strike can turn those into wildfires. it is a not only a problem that will be affecting the united states, but it's a global issue as well. >> if we look at this short term, i mean by that the next 24, 48 hours, when can we expect some relief and where is the smoke heading next. >> by the weekend i think we'll be done talking about people in unhealthy air. that will be good. the fires, when will they go out? that's a different story. they need a lot of rain and we also need to get resources to these areas and a lot of them are extremely remote, especially the ones providing the smoke for the northeast. so as of this moment, the worst air quality is in harrisburg, pennsylvania, towards philadelphia, washington, d.c. yesterday it was from syracuse to albany and new york city. shifted southwards. the air isn't healthy around new york. it's still in the unhealthy range but headed in the right direction. but the very unhealthy stuff and

hazardous stuff is near the nation's capital. everyone in this region is like okay, we're done. our turn is over. when do we get the relief? we have clouds from the north with smoke mixed in. it's pure dense moek right now over the d.c. and baltimore area. we will put an end to this. the fires in quebec produced a lot of smoke, flared up about 24 to 48 hours ago. the plume of smoke from the north isn't as strong as it was. tomorrow morning from new york city northwards your air is fine. from new york city southward you will still be in this unhealthy air. by the time we go through friday afternoon, there's still a little bit of smoke near detroit, cleveland, heading for pittsburgh, but not as dense and even by the time we get to saturday there's still going to be sunsets you will see with smoke in the air but nothing like what we're dealing with now, chris. so the bottom line is, the worst is right now for the next about

18 hours in the d.c. area, around new york city northwards you'll start to see an improvement tonight into tomorrow morning. >> love those words real improvement. thank you very much. appreciate you all very much. sounding the alarm. the white house takes new steps to protect the lbgtq plus community as we see more shocking images of violence and discrimination. and later, the sunshine state heating up the gop race. the other prominent florida republican who may be about to give donald trump a run for his money in the race for the nomination. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. reports" only on msnbc that's , we've spent a hundred years developing treatments to help unlock humanity's full potential. these are the greats: people living with, thriving with — not held back by — disease. they motivate us to fight diabetes and obesity, rare diseases and cardiovascular conditions, for generations to come. so, everyone can meet their moment. because your disease doesn't define you.

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we're following this breaking news, the surprise ruling from the supreme court upholding voting rights in an narrow 5-4 decision the justices ordered the state of alabama to redraw its congressional map saying the current one discriminates against black voters. laura jarrett is here with me. big implications and a big surprise. >> big implications for 2024. now not only does alabama have to go back and redraw its maps, potentially allowing black voters to have more than just one of those majority districts, but other states might have to take a second look at their maps and make sure that they now comply with what the supreme court has done, which is to reaffirm section 2 of the voting rights act. this is a conservative majority that i think it is safe to

describe as relatively hostile to other portions of the voting rights act, it gutted in previous years, but today they decided to maintain the status quo, said the lower court was right to follow the precedent that has been on the books for the better part of several decades. remember the whole point of the voting rights act there was to sort of remedy the harm of disenfranchising black voters for so many years. >> when you see some of these maps they're drawn like -- >> exactly. >> modern art or somebody threw paint against the wall, they didn't, they took a computer and -- figured out how to do i get my voters in one place. >> alabama had said was, yes, because we use that computer module, we didn't intentionally discriminate. the problem for them is, that's never been the standard. that's never been the law. the standard has been looking at what is the impact, what's the discriminatory effect, put aside the intent, and because the supreme court, again, today has

reaffirmed intent doesn't matter, it gives voters the power to challenge these maps when they can show the effect on the ground. >> laura jarrett, fascinating stuff. thank you so much. to be continued. we've got breaking news on the federal investigation into president biden's handling of classified documents. monica alba joins us from the white house. what have you learned? >> well, chris, this may be something, of course, people have some questions about given what we've seen happened in the other week or so in relation to the handling of classified documents and that material. we saw the department of justice wrap up former vice president pence's review of the matter last week. right now we're seeing this activity consistently with signs pointing to perhaps the end of whatever is going on with former president trump's classified documents case with all of that activity. so in terms of what's happening right now with president biden's own review, which was given this

special counsel earlier this year, we know that the matter is ongoing and there's nothing that's really indicating that it is set to wrap up any time soon. the reason that that is important in terms of the timeline here, is that for months now, the president has vowed to cooperate fully and completely with this review into his handling of the classified documents found at his former private office in washington and also at his home in wilmington, delaware, and that could entail through that cooperation an interview with the special counsel. along with my colleague carole lee, we're reporting here essentially that aides have anticipated that that is something that absolutely could happen at some point, but that the terms of that potential entire would have to be agreed on between the president's own legal team and the department of justice. the conditions based on some conversations about what other presidents have committed to, is something that would still need to be worked out. in the context of when this could happen, it's unclear, but

we know that this just continues to be something that robert her, the special counsel appointed in that case has been reviewing through the course of his investigation and when the time comes, we understand that the president and his aides would commit to that interview. again, we don't know exactly what form that would take, but that is one biden aide put to us, there's no real weight around it. that is something that as the former president's case could perhaps be coming top an end here and we saw the former vice president's case did wrap up in that context, that one didn't a special counsel, this could be just where we would be taking the conversation next in terms of where the current president of the united states stands in terms of his own handling of the classified information. >> we have breaking news out of new york donald trump asking for a new trial in the sexual abuse civil case involving e. jean carroll. specifically taking issue with the amount of money she received. au according to the filing, trump is arguing because the

jury found she was not raped but only sexually abused, the $2 million award was extensive and $2.7 million in compensatory damage was based on pure xeklation. the biden administration announcing new initiatives to support the lbgtq community ahead of a pride month party at the white house, which was supposed to be tonight, but has been moved to saturday because of air quality concerns. the important thing is the initiatives. they're aimed at protecting lbgtq communities from attacks, providing mental health resources and countering the recent wave of book bans on the heels of this disturbing scene out of california tuesday. three people were arrested after an all-out brawl broke out you youth side of a school board meeting to recognize june as pride month. it's an example of what the human rights campaign warned about this week issuing a national state of emergency over

anti-lbgtq laws and violence against the community. joining me now, "new york times" columnist and msnbc political analyst charles glow. always good to see you. your latest column sets the stage for why the white house and hrc are taking action. quote, politicians plated with segment of the population that sees diverge against from its primitive ideals as deviant. they build boxes. particularly young people those boxes can become caskets. how concerned are you right now in this environment for the present and future of lbgtq americans? >> well, first i would start by saying first thank you for having me on. i would start by saying, you know, even all of the leaders i spoke to for this piece, understood that all of these impulses are connected. everyone is under attack, black people are under attack, women,

immigrants are under attack and lbgtq people are under attack. in that sector we see the tidal wave of actual legislation that could take decades to come off the books and that is concerning because you're creating whole segments of the country that are putting a stake in the ground saying you are not welcome here and we are hostile to you and that is a threat and that is, you know, threats like that amount to terror, a way of saying we will make you submit and if you live here you will live here under this hostility and i don't think a lot of people, including many of the leaders i spoke to for that piece, understood that that threat would come so quickly and such a coordinated fashion. i think it caught them flat footed and i think they will push back against this.

in this moment, there is no doubt this is a national threat, a state of emergency for lbgtq people. >> so let me put numbers to what you're talking about and what hrc is talking about. just this year, 525 pieces of state legislation have been proposed that hrc continues to consider to be hostile to the hoda kotb -- lbgtq community. one of the phrases you wrote was a [ inaudible ] over pride. what needs to happen here? absolutely these are all interconnected. words have power. unfortunately in many cases the power of the words lead to hate and violence. >> well, one thing that's happening in these bills in particular is that they've put

care for trans kids at the tip of the spear as a way of making an opening, right. so they have a lot of help when they make that opening, even across the political spectrum. there are feminists who believe there is a problem with true, fullluon of particularly trans women as women, liberals, including gay men, who think that that is a line for them, this idea of women it's transwomen participating in women with women who were born as women, or young people receiving gender affirming care. but what i say is that they take the extremes and complicate issues to be sure, things that need to be worked through and thought through in a thoughtful way, and say we will use that as a way of condemning the entire

thing, right. it is the willie horton approach. take an extreme case and then say oh, if this is the truth for this case, it could be true for others and therefore, this entire segment of the population is problematic, that is exactly what happened in the case of willie horton and that political campaign as it relates to black people. this is the same thing used here. they are surpass -- they passed laws against trans women participating in women's sports in cases where there are almost no trans women participating in sports. it was a scare tactic and we said it could happen, so we'll pass a law and put a stake in the ground to say we won't have it here. you know, people are pagz laws because they've made boogie men out of some people and using that as a way to get in. once they open the door the other half of the laws are about

other things not about transwomen and not about gender affirming care for young people. they're about other things. there's no way to be silent about this and say i don't go along with that and that's extreme and will protect me. no, they're coming after all things lbgtq and this is just a way in the door. >> charles, such an important column and such an important conversation. it's always good to see you. thank you for coming on the program. i appreciate it. still ahead mr. sueknack goes to washington. they welcome the prime minister with ukraine, a.i., even baseball on the agenda. we're expecting a press conference any moment now and we'll have that live. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. reports" only on msnbc and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein.

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. four young children have been critically injured in france after a knife assault that president emanuel mack con describes as an attack of cowardice. witnesses at a lakeside park in the french alps screamed for help as a man stabbed children who were 22 months to 3 years old. at least one of them in a stroller was stabbed repeatedly. two adults were also wounded in the attack. authorities identified the suspect as a 31-year-old syrian who had refugee status in sweden. no word on a motive but

investigators say it does not appear to be a terror-related attack. any minute now president biden and uk prime minister rishi sunak will hold a joint press conference after their meeting at the white house. global security, inflation and ukraine are all on today's bilateral agenda. i want to bring in peter alexander live from the white house east room. so peter, i think this is the fourth time in four months these men have met face to face. so talk about the importance of this meeting and this trip? >> san diego, belfast, hiroshima and now here at the white house, rishi sunak's first opportunity to sit down face to face with president biden and, chris, as you noted in the introduction to this conversation, it's certain that the topic of ukraine is going to dominate a lot of conversations they have behind closed doors today given that recent attack, some suspecting that it was perpetrated by russia, on a dam in southern ukraine, separately, of course, the new headlines including the belief that that counter

offensive is now begun by the ukrainians to push back against russia. certain the two will try to demonstrate the solidity of the relationship between the two of them as it relates to ukraine and nato. there's also an opportunity for a reset, i think, of sorts here with rishi sunak alongside president biden, after brexit, after former prime minister of the uk boris johnson and amid a lot of turmoil we've seen in recent months and years in london for the two men to meet together, the topic of trade certainly an economic partnership will be significant. they'll try to fortify the special relationship as we often refer to it between the two countries and then, of course, there is the topic of artificial intelligence, one that is meaningful to men, to the men on both sides in this equation. one that has offered opportunities as they indicate for technologies in the future but also that has provided perilous concerns as it relates of how it could be used by adversaries going forward.

a.i. will get attention between these two as well. >> peter alexander in the east room of the white house. we'll be going back there when the two men come out. is the republican race for president about to get a little more crowded? the signs that another florida republican might be ready to jump in. plus, following the money all the way to the supreme court. questions surrounding clarence thomas and what he'll say about a lavish trip paid for by a billionaire. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc.

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. just as it appeared the 2024 gop presidential field was set, another florida republican is making moves that suggest he could be joining the race. he's miami mayor, frances suarez, reportedly showing strong signs of a potential run. suarez has been staffing up the campaign team and his super pack has raised $6 million. on top of that, the mayor isn't shy about taking on one of the big names in the race, prominently criticizing his home state governor, ron desantis, for what he called his personal vendetta with disney. i want to play a bit about what john kasich had to say about suarez on this show yesterday. >> the mayor of miami, florida, francis suarez, he's an idea person, apparently very

appealing. it's very tough from going from being mayor. pete buttigieg made a lot of noise. >> winning the noise isn't the same as winning the nomination but do you think it's possible that a lesser known candidate like suarez could have a chance? >> it reminds me of dumb and dumber, so you think i have a chance in this regard. i mean, i think anybody that gets in the race now knows that the thousand pound gorilla in the room is donald trump, and it's going to be very tough for anybody to win in this race. i actually think if he enters the race, it's another good news for donald trump because the more candidates, the better for im, which means his 30 or 40% of the vote is going to win every primary if there's that many candidates in the race. i think it's bad news for two things. the group of people that want to get past trump, this only helps donald trump, but it's also really bad news for ron desantis

because this is a florida candidate with some base of support. some popularity, and he's going to split up whatever vote that ron desantis has, but one thing i will counsel everybody on is, you know, we had 17 candidates in 2015, 2016, we're not there yet, but we're getting closer. we're now at 10 if he gets in the race. by the time, before the first caucus vote was cast, half the field had dropped out, and so i think a lot of these folks are getting in, see if they're getting reaction, they'll probably do a debate or two, if they qualify in this, and then i think many of them are going to reassess their candidacies if donald trump continues to dominate the race. >> we only have a minute left, but $6 million isn't nothing. >> $6 million isn't nothing but it's also very small compared to free media, which is basically what drives a presidential race. it's free media that pushes a presidential race, and $6 million paid advertising

can't compete with the free media of donald trump. >> nobody can compete with the free media of donald trump. it would be interested to see if a shiny new object got in, that nobody was expecting how much free media he got. matthew, i think we might talk about this again. >> thanks, chris. our exclusive reporting on the interagency effort to hold companies more accountable. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on mbcsn when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. ♪♪ with fastsigns, signage that gets you noticed turns hot lots into homes. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement.

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we have some new reporting for you from nbc news. a federal investigation into migrant children working in violation of labor laws in the u.s. has just expanded. that's according to two senior officials. nbc's julia ainsley has our report. >> reporter: these are some of the migrant children federal officials found illegally working in a slaughter house, raising questions about child

labor in america. nbc news learning the department of homeland security, justice department, as well as white house officials are now examining companies in the meat packing and produce industries who allegedly hired guatemalan children in at least 11 states. now adding locations in virginia, north carolina, and florida to the list of those already under scrutiny. according to two u.s. officials. we first brought you this story earlier this year of more than 100 undocumented children who federal investigators say were hired to clean slaughter houses in the dead of night, many desperate for a paycheck to send to family back home. >> if you mess up, you get treated like an adult, which none of these kids have the maturity to handle that. >> reporter: in the last few years border officials have released 260,000 unaccompanied minors into the u.s., almost half from guatemala. penalties against companies who are hiring migrants are not tough enough to keep it from

happening. >> i think ramping up the fines, looking at things like the potential for criminal prosecution is really going to be key to get the situation under control. >> reporter: officials would not say what companies are currently under investigation, and said some could face criminal penalties or criminal charges. they want to build trust with the migrant children who they say are the victims in these cases. >> julia ainsley, thank you for that report. we've got a lot to cover in our second hour of "chris jansing reports." let's get right to it. t to it. at this hour, ukraine launches a long-awaited counter offensive against russia. the crucial military move coming amid a humanitarian catastrophe as tens of thousands are at risk after construction of that critical dam. the message from federal prosecutors to donald trump and his legal team, informing them that the former president is, in fact, the target of their

investigation into hisan