welcome back, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian, we're gonna be back some breaking news, right now the former president is appearing at the state -- in georgia. appearing at the first public comment since the indictment came down. we are listening in, we'll bring you any news as it happens. i will go right now to nbc -- 's in columbus georgia following it all. garrett, i know that the former president speaking behind me there we've gotten some excerpts of what exactly the former president is saying in his speech, if you can take us through some of the? >> yasmin, former president just took the stage a little while ago. as expected, his speech is gonna be fairly wide ranging. he's gonna address the indictment from this week. although, in a more oblique way than he has done on his social media accounts, at least that's the plan. the speech has written includes these comments, he's going to

say, we now have two standards of justice in our country. the democrat communists who want to jail their opponents while they protect the murderers who prowl our cities day and night, and other brazen criminals. the linking, rather, his own complaint about its own prosecutions with his views on crime, in line the way the republicans written in 2022. he's also gonna say, either we have a deep state, or we have a democracy. either the deep state destroys america, or we destroy the deep state. yasmin, that goes back to 2016, the same kind of grievance about being investigated by the fbi, by robert mueller. and now by the special counsel. we've heard from the former president since he was, in fact, the president of the united states. a speech getting underway here today, we'll see whether former president knows anger and frustration about his indictment overcomes the written words prepared in front of him by aids. and what they hope will be a speech that taps into more of the views that the republican

activists here in the audience here and some of the issues that on his views personally. about the political prosecutions, or the prosecutions he's facing, that he believes our political. ? >> garrett, have you had a chance to speak to any folks there that are attending this convention, and gotten their thoughts, their feelings on this indictment, if they've read it? what they think of it? >> i've not spoken to anyone who's actually read the indictment, yasmin, i've talked to a couple people. what struck me is the advantage that mr. trump had by breaking the news himself, just like in our business, when you get a scoop, you control the coverage that follows. from talking to some of the people here in the idea what mr. trump presented this, as the biden justice department going after him, is the way that that this story is being reflected back from his supporters. the information exam ecosystem being what it is, that maybe the way this is presented over an over again. to many of the folks here, mostly republican activists. but i'm very curious the.

how the speech is reflected afterwards and whether the actual details of the indictment make much of a difference. listening, and i'm speaking at the same time. always a challenge. the former president is talking even now about election interference. linking it back to what he says is spying on his campaign. this is a 2016 2017 complaint. that is now looking to the language structure that he's built to describe the prosecutions he's facing, plural now, in new york by the federal government in miami. >> garrett, i know you're gonna keep your ears trained on the, thank you for that. we're going to continue to monitor that speech. so far, it's his, has garrett has been saying, campaign boiler plate. we're gonna if you make some news, we're gonna bring that sound as quick as possible. to the former president and his former aide, walt nauta, expected to be arraigned in federal court in miami on tuesday. trump is facing 37 felony counts, including charges related to the willful retention of national defense

material, walt nauta obstructed with concealment related charges, the indictment makes the twice impeached former commander in chief the first former president to ever faced for acquittal null charges. former trial attorney and host of the katie phang show, katie phang. former prosecutor writer for the deadline, illegal block, jordan reuben. thank you both. i will start with you, we are looking at documents being kept in ballrooms. storage areas, unlocked storage areas, spilled on the ground, pictures taken by walt nauta himself with exposed classified documents. bathrooms. shower stalls being moved around. before they knew they're supposed to be handed over to the department of justice after being subpoenaed. what stood out to you the most. what was the most shocking to you, katie, as a read through this 49-page indictment. >> the most shocking thing, yasmin, the confessions made by former president donald trump in this indictment.

where we have him on audiotapes, have him talking to his lawyers. trying to find ways to obstruct the federal government, through it investigators, to be able to get documents back that never belonged to him, what's he left the oval office. i think the picture some of us are laughing about, boxes, of boxes within showers, within bathrooms. if you stop to think about the magnitude of what's occurred here, 37 felony counts against the former president of the united states, historically, never happened before. more importantly, if he's treated like any other criminal defendant, yasmin, he's gonna be looking at several years in prison. so, what ends up happening here, you end up basically having a defendant who does have some of the protections that reported him, because of his prior office. but they stop at the threshold of the courtroom. we're gonna see whether or not jack smith continues to have the goods but what we've seen of this indictment has been damning, to say the least. >> also this exchange that we understand evan corcoran had with the former president about these classified documents that

he obtained from mar-a-lago after he visited mar-a-lago in early june. corcoran recalls this in his testimony to the department of justice. trump made a phony motion as the, why if you take them with you to your hotel room, and if there's anything really bad and they're, like you know, pluck it out. that was the motion that he made. he didn't say that. >> corcoran is saying, at one point, after you obtain these 38 classified documents, from mar-a-lago. talking to the former president about what to do these classified documents. the former president essentially telling his own attorney, hey, listen buddy, takes on those classified documents out if you shouldn't be handing them over the. to the department justice after this. how damning is that? >> it's insane. because if you think about, as a former trial lawyer myself, i've had difficult and complex cases. i'll take notes, yasmin, about the facts of the case. maybe some witness interviews that i've done.

i'm not taking these types of notes. 50 pages of notes that were taken or transcribed by evan corcoran involving his client, donald trump. it makes you stop and think for a second, did evan corcoran know that something untoward was going on? he wanted to govern his own hide? a lot of what comes out of these notes is self serving. we never would've seen these notes. but for the fact that a federal judge said that the attorney client privilege, which normally is sacrosanct, you can't pierce that, but the crime fraud exception was found to exist in this case. were donald trump was using one of his lawyers to further a crime, and because of that, we were able to get our hands on this. evan corcoran saying, donald trump is making him do things which otherwise are a crime. because of the, we now, as the american public know it, courtesy of jack smith's very, very detailed speaking indictment. >> why would evan corcoran note that? why would you be so specific in that note, katy? >> because he knows who donald

trump is. it's okay for him to get a client like donald trump. but if you know your client has a history of throwing his attorneys under the bus, throwing any anybody under the bus to completely exculpate himself, or try to avoid exposure or liability. you, if you're smart, or get to make sure, how do we know even more yasmin? who did evan corcoran get to sign that certification those turned over to the fbi? christine above. evan corcoran himself did not sign the certification saying that he had reviewed the boxes to ensure that all documents had been return to the federal government. look, wiley or not, evan corcoran has basically made sure, he's insulated himself from any type of exposure. in doing, so he's exposed his client, donald trump. >> by the way, even up christina bobb. she did not review the documents, she did not go to mar-a-lago to obtain the documents, she did not have the classified documents in her possession. she signed the disclosure saying, in fact, she did and nothing else was there. jordan, let's get into the false equivalency we've been hearing a lot of, and we've heard a lot, not only from

members of the republican party, but the former president himself. being made between biden, hillary, the former vice president of the united states, mike pence. and what donald trump has allegedly done. here. >> right, so, one of the most amazing things about this case, it didn't need to happen. you can say that about any criminal case. here, what we see these classified document investigations, yes, as we've seen with biden and pence, sometimes documents are found that politicians should not have had. then they cooperate with the government, they give them back. had donald trump done that? we might not be having this conversation. now, that's far from the only difference in trump's case, there are many differences in the underlying facts. really, if you come down to the obstruction element, which is seemingly present in trump's case, but not these others. that's what can make the difference in these charges coming. >> guys, i'm hearing now that the former president in georgia just addressed the indictment

publicly for the first time. i want to play that for you, katie, i want you to weigh in. >> thank you very much. the ridiculous and baseless indictment of me by the biden administration has weaponized the department of justice. we'll go down as among the most horrific abuses of power in the history of our country, many people have said that, democrats have even said it. this vicious persecution is a travesty of justice. >> katie? >> he has, what we've heard this before. it's like hitting the repeat button and something that is done before. the problem for donald trump or his own words. he's an audiotape acknowledging that one of his big defenses, i can declassify in my mind, doesn't play, he knew that what he had should've been declassified before. what he had an imposition at the time was secret, it should not have been shown to anybody. nobody's putting words his mouth, yasmin. that's the problem. he can do the stump speeches on rallies, saying that there's

been weaponization of doj. the reality is, the facts and the evidence or inject smith's favor. donald trump admits that he was wrong. >> i want to read partially the statement from jack smith yet again. this was voted on by a grand jury of citizens in the southern district of florida, i invite everyone to redouble to understand the scope of the gravity of the crimes charged. katie fang, jordan reuben, thank you both. coming up in just six exec and everybody, former trump's latest indictment has many wondering when could potential charges come for the special counsel's other investigations involving january 6th? and election interference. and as former to january 6th committee member, is a lofgren, about that and much much more. coming up next. coming up next with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy.

(vo) this is sadie. she's on verizon, and she has the new myplan where she gets exactly what she wants and only pays for what she needs. she picks only the perks she wants and saves on every one! all with an incredible new iphone. act now and get iphone 14 pro on us when you switch. it's your verizon. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. everyone: woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals. enter the $10,000 nourishing moments giveaway. all right, welcome back, we want to get reaction from capitol hill. members of the republican party have come out in support of the former president, calling the indictment politically motivated while democrats

remain steadfast in their commitment to ensuring that no one is above the law, even a former president. all of this happening as trump remains the subject of the more major investigations relating to the election. his finances and the january 6th insurrection. for me now is congresswoman -- democrat from california. was a member of the house select -- congressman thanks for joining us we appreciate good to see you on this afternoon. let me read a quote for you from the indictment. the doj saying this. the documents in which the former president had in his possession included information quote, regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the united states and foreign countries. that is not to mention by the way u.s. nuclear programs. congressman, what is your reaction to this latest indictment of the former president? >> well, i think we guessed it was coming, but i can't help but be shocked and surprised at

the details in this indictment. i mean the reckless activities that are alleged. i mean, documents that are so secret some of the fbi agents couldn't even look at them because they don't have a clear clearance high enough to look at them. and there they were out in public. you know? we are naive if we don't believe that our adversaries are sending people into mar-a-lago and anyone can get anything pay the money. and here were these super secret documents really open to anybody who wanted to come in. it is just appalling. and i hope but i fear that there is damage that has been done to our national security. and to the individuals who work in national security to serve their country it is not easy's work and they shouldn't be put in danger.

>> speaker mccarthy your colleagues, wasting no time in attacking the different of justice and the president. saying this, it is a dark day for united states of america, quote, it is unconscionable for a president to indict the leading candidates opposing him. what is your reaction to some of the statement? that the speaker put out? >> well, those are talking points that the republicans set out. they all said virtually the same thing. and it was said before the indictment had even been released. so they clearly didn't know what they were talking about. obviously a grand jury indicted the ex president, not the president. and the details in the indictment of the show why. this is not some frivolous matter. it is very serious. and, you know in a way it is a dark day that the ex president behaved in such outrageous misconduct that we have come to this. that we have had to bring a criminal action against him.

>> what is your worry as you look ahead to 2024? and this election that is clearly coming up for us? >> well you know, some of my colleagues, not all, i, mean mitt romney and others are holding up the rule of law. but a lot of my republican colleagues are seeking to undercut belief in our system of government. and really just trashing the rule of law. it is appalling and shocking that they would take that position. the ex president like any other defendant is implied up to the presumption of innocence. if he can disprove what has been alleged that he will do -- to attack our system of government because he is being held to account is irresponsible and really on american. you know we need to uphold our constitution, uphold our little flaw. not wondered as my colleagues

are doing. simply because they are so devoted to this one man. >> representatives aloft, we thank you. >> thank you. >> all right our coverage of the indictment continues ahead. including a look at the biden administration's strategy of silence. and whether that could help or hurt as the former president attacks him and the doj. plus, how both sides will handle the trump appointed judge assigned to the case who has shown the former president favored the past. and the troubling online reaction to the indictment -- the likelihood -- coming up. we will be right back. l be right back. like the #20. the elite chicken and bacon ranch. built with rotisserie-style chicken and double cheese. i love what i'm seeing here. that's some well-coached chicken. you done, peyton? the subway series just keeps gettin' better. what are folks 60 and older up to these days? getting inspired! volunteering!

playing pickleba...! your bug spray should take out bugs, not keep out people. unlike other sprays that stick around, zevo goes from kill to clean in just seconds, plus it's safe for use around people and pets. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly.

want to stop lower body pain before it starts? there's a dr. scholl's for that. new dr. scholl's prevent pain insoles are the only ones clinically proven to prevent pain from muscle-induced joint stiffness and strain. so you can stay pain free. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv woman: coarse hair, thin skin. down there requires a special kind of care. venus for pubic hair and skin. uniquely made to prep, protect, and maintain. whether i'm smoother than smooth or au naturale. this is skin care for down there. you've evolved. you've changed. so have we. that's why new dove body wash now has 24-hour

renewing micro moisture for continuous care. new dove body wash. change is beautiful. is it possible to protect my business from cyber threats? it is, with comcast business. helping every connected device stay protected. yours. your employees'. even... susan? -hers, too. safe. secure. and powered by the next generation 10g network. with comcast business, advanced security isn't just possible. it's happening. get started with fast speeds and advanced security

for $49.99 a month for 12 months. plus ask how to get up to a $750 prepaid card while the former president is with qualifying internet. speaking at a gop event right, now president biden is keeping to his schedule. he and the first lady are at the white house where they

hosted an event to celebrate pride month. nbc's allie raffa's is also at the white house for us covering it all. ali, good to talk to you. so yesterday, jack smith obviously commented on this case. a lot of folks wondering if the president is going to or has plans to say anything? what are you hearing? >> yeah, yasmin, well before we get into the reaction or lack thereof from this white house, from this president, i just want to go through some of the most recent attack lines against this president that we have heard from former president trump just as recently as a few minutes ago while he was speaking there in georgia. he said he called this indictment a, quote joe. he said it was quote warmest by president biden's justice department. he brought up the presidents own special counsel probe into the mishandling of classified documents. there is a double standard there with that and the investigation into hunter biden. he accused president biden of quote trying to jail his

political opponents and vowed to, quote, you picked a totally corrupt president from the white house in 2024. and now the president on this white house have been repeatedly asked to react to this indictment since we first learned about it from the former president on thursday night. and we know they learned about it from, like everyone else, the media reports about it. and they have either referred those questions to the justice department for largely dodged those questions altogether. you mentioned yesterday the president was in north carolina at an event where he was asked to react to this and this was the reaction, take a listen. >> mister president, are you concerned about -- indictment? >> [inaudible] >> this lack of reaction isn't too surprising, yasmin. this indictment really puts president biden in an unprecedented area. he is not only obviously the sitting president as this indictment comes forward. but he is also obviously former president trump's top 24 rival.

and so he has said that even before he was elected in 2020 that he wants to respect and honor the separation and independents that he has vowed to create between his white house and the justice department. so he doesn't want to appear to sway or be influencing this indictment or this case in any way. obviously we know special counsel jack smith's investigation has been kept secret from maine doj. and as we have seen in as recent as the speech from former president trump that hasn't stopped the former president or his gop allies from arguing this familiar argument that we have heard. that this is a witch hunt. but this is a political effort to cut his chances in 2024. and obviously what is still complicating this is that independent special counsel investigation into the presidents own handling of classified documents. obviously we know we have gone over how different these cases are. but nevertheless we expect that to fully be used as ammunition for the former president and his gop rivals yasmin.

>> allie raffa for, us thank you. >> coming up everybody we have reached a war phase. another military unrelated rhetoric is being used to defend former president trump against his recent indictment. nbc's senior reporter, ben collins, he joins me next. with a round up of the far-right backlash that seems to be stoking the flames. we will be right back. be right back. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv - elites. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. now that we've made travel so expensive, we have this hotel to our...selves..? - how'd you get here? - kayak! they compared hundreds of travel sites to find a great deal on my flight, car, and hotel.

- kayak. search one and done. the sleep number climate360 smart bed is the only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms, and effortlessly responds to both of you for up to 44 minutes more restful sleep per night. save $1,500 on the sleep number climate360 smart bed. shop now only at sleep number. (tap, tap) listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later i still smell fresh. secret works.

ohhh yesss. (man) what if my type 2 diabetes takes over? (woman) what if all i do isn't enough? secret works. or what if i can do diabetes differently? (avo) now you can with once-weekly mounjaro. mounjaro helps your body regulate blood sugar, and mounjaro can help decrease how much food you eat. 3 out of 4 people reached an a1c of less than 7%. plus people taking mounjaro lost up to 25 pounds. mounjaro is not for people with type 1 diabetes or children. don't take mounjaro, if you're allergic to it, you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop mounjaro, and call your doctor right away, if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, vision changes, or diabetic retinopathy. serious side effects may include pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. taking mounjaro with sulfonylurea or insulin raises

low blood sugar risk. tell your doctor if you're nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. side effects include nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea which can cause dehydration and may worsen kidney problems. (woman) i can do diabetes differently with mounjaro. (avo) ask your doctor about once-weekly mounjaro. three nights, esg... the broker will take your bonds. -diversification, futures, options. fiduciary. leverage. [whispering] -frothy markets. psst. virtual real estate is a lock. ♪ cold hard cash ♪ j.p. morgan wealth management knows the world is full of financial noise. i'm looking at your asset mix and plan. you are right on track. great, thanks. our easy-to-use app and local advisors are here to help you figure out what's right for your investments. j.p. morgan wealth management. reactions to the former

president historic indictment are ranging from the expected to the more alarming, one particularly troubling response came from republican congressman clay higgins who tweeted this. quote, this is a perimeter probe from the oppressors. hold, our potus has this. buckle up, 1 to 50, 000, know your bridges. rock steady calm. the louisiana repetitive clearly invoking some sort of military style language there and i want to bring in nbc senior reporter ben collins for more on this. i want you to kind of if he will clarify some of what we heard in that tweet. i also know that higgins has tried to clarify his own tweet. just a couple of minutes ago, essentially saying this. let trump handle trump and he has got this. we use the constitution as our only weapon.

what do you make of all of this? >> yeah, i think it is closer to qanon than military stuff. you know, when they say our potus, remember, in the qanon world he is still the president. that is one big thing. and then you talked about deep columns which is a big thing and qanon world. where they talk about how everything is secretly a code word. when you look at those things he is trying to angle towards those sorts of people. so look, there is still a segment of the republican party that believes in qanon. and that is what this looks like here. unfortunately he's just trying to roll those people. maybe he's dragging the back after he got some phone call saying to maybe stop inciting violence like that. eventually? but that is exactly what is going on there. >> so andy biggs, arizona congressman tweeting this. we have now reached a war phase. i for an eye. kari lake, merrick garland will have to go through, thirely tron americans and most of us are card carrying members of the nra. what more are you seeing out

there when it comes to stuff like this? and how much is this kind of penetrating the right-wing followers of the former president? >> you know, after all of these, and for the first indictment in new york, after the raid in mar-a-lago last year you would see these kinds of things. by the, way i want to stress, it is still happening. i'm gonna read you a couple right now. this is from patriots dot when where they basically organized january 6th. we need to start killing these traders upstate. it is not going to stop until -- separate post, not gonna stop until the bodies start stacking. up we are not -- >> oh my gosh. >> i am most worried about another thing frankly, that they are very much targeting both jack smith's family and merrick garland's family. one post says his children are fair game as far as i'm concerned. about merrick garland. jack smith's family has been targeted by trump himself in the last couple of days on truth social.

talking about his wife political donations and things like that. so, look, i don't know what's gonna happen here. i do want to stress too, by the way, that they kind of assume people aren't going to go to new york to protest for donald trump. it didn't work last time. they say if you are in a blue state you are an enemy territory. don't let yourself get cuffed by those people. but in florida is different. it is possible p mode by showing tuesday. you know, they did after for example mar-a-lago raid last year. they think that if you are in a republican state then you might get a little bit more leeway to do a little bit more protesting and just go and show up, pick up some signs and protest. so that is obviously the worry for tuesday but i have no specific things yet. they are not organized yet, usually comes together 48 hours away. >> by the way, the former president saying this just now in georgia, calling jack smith essentially a deranged psycho. and the speech today he is making in georgia. so it seems as if none of these

trials, none of the sentencing when it comes to the january 6th attack on the capital is resonating at all with any of these kind of right-wing individuals that are talking about violence. online. it is not making a difference for them? >> yeah, these short sentences weren't really editor and for any of these people at all. jacob chansley and the chansley sorry, he was the qanon shaman. and he is back to selling merging back in that grift. back in that world. these people are not they think they are martyrs for a political cause. that is what happens when you don't treat the insurrection like an insurrection, unfortunately,. >> that, said the oath keepers in the last few weeks, they got almost two decades in prison in one case. so the only positive thing i would say about this whole thing right now is that the militias are kind of in tatters. central organization that was around before january 6th is not there anymore.

there are a lot more for defense than they were before january 6th. but the open calls for violence and the riling of people and the continual talk of assassinations that is not a lot of puzzle. >> ben collins as always, it is great to have you, on thank you, ken. >> here with me now i want to bring in simone sanders townsend, host of simon here on msnbc who picks up the baton for me at 4:00. but joining us a little early to talk about this. i mean this is astounding. you ruled up with it. >> i have got my notes. my highlighted pages with my posts. >> the timeline you and i were talking about. this it is astounding really kind of the case, that storyline, right? but jackson has built throughout this entire thing? >> the timeline is crazy. yasmin, it is absolutely crazy. starting from january 2021 when donald trump leaves office and in the indictment, we are telling people at home to read the indictment, but we read it. so we will tell them. in the indictment it says that

the personal aide packed boxes, donald trump was personally involved with those boxes being packed. then from january to march the boxes were moved to mar-a-lago. and then there is this whole timeline of how the boxes went from a stage to a bathroom and a shower. ended up in the storage room. like? the timeline is crazy. but the thing that stuck out to me about this timeline was after it was all said and done, the subpoena was issued. donald trump removed again, directed these boxes to be moved. he handpicked information out of them. he attends this impromptu meeting if you will with his lawyers and some folks from the justice department and the fbi. donald trump says on june 3rd, i am an open book. and then next month, okay, july 2022, there is surveillance footage department of justice and the investigators obtained from mar-a-lago. again, trump's own surveillance footage. how you ain't get your own footage together, he has been? and it is not footage where they see trump's personal aide and staff moving these boxes.

and that is what precluded the august 8th search of 2022, sorry, to mar-a-lago. >> can we talk about the political implications of all of this? >> right? >> because this is an individual who is running for president of the united states. who already served as president of the united states. you have folks that are running against him, that could really kind of make a mark in this moment, right? stand out? you get around desantis. you could've any one of these, mike pence he could step up and say, all right, enough is enough. and none of them are doing that. right? we talk about this political divide, this divided political country that we live in. right now. right? >> these candidates could step up and here is the thing. i think they are scared, yasmin honestly if you just look at the republican electorate. the voters in the primary. the republican primary from ohio to new hampshire and south carolina just look at those folks. these are some of the people who are some of donald trump's most ardent supporters. again, keeping their options open. but the base likes what donald trump did when he was president

-- hurting somebody same language about how you the little guy's been fraud and i will be your champion. and these are all the things i promised the. do folks have continued to promise -- that the number of these candidates don't want to look like -- in this moment it's important for these campaigns to make a decision. like what is important, jon meacham has been on our air the last 24 or 48 hours saying the question is one of democracy arena. be a mature democracy that abides by its rules and laws in the courts is. when mr. bakr see that she was chaos over the constitution. >> quickly do you think the president should be making a statement here to kind of quell any friction that could be mounting right now? >> i think the president, if he says anything you should say something about potential violence. i don't think it behooves the president to weigh in on the indictment. because it plays right into the hands of his critics.

>> simon tenders townsend. four pm everybody. in just a couple of minutes, right. 22 minutes of i do my mouth right. you can catch or their simone's interview with peter stone, one of the plaintiffs in the alabama voting rights supreme court case. even want to miss that. some really surprising stuff that has -- coming up at four pm make sure to watch simon every weekend at four pm following our show. and later tonight when she joins special coverage of the trump indictment atrium eastern right here on msnbc. we are following some other breaking news everybody. today, ted kaczynski also known as the unabomber has died in a federal prison in north carolina at the age of 81. once a harvard educated mathematician he killed three people and injured more than 20 others. all from a shack in the montana wilderness. nbc's dana griffin reports. >> the man known as the unabomber died while serving four consecutive life sentences decades after his reign of terror gripped the nation. ted kaczynski the one-time

mathematics prodigy became infamous for alluding authorities. the only clue to his identity is this sketch made after a witness saw him planting a bomb. kaczynski played a deadly cat-and-mouse game with the fbi in a nationwide ban bonding bombing campaign that stretched 17 years. becoming one of the bureau's longest and most expensive investigations ever. >> the fbi the other agencies involved they are working on this with as much diligence as i've ever seen an investigation. >> his first homemade bomb detonated in 19's and 78 at northwestern university injuring a security guard. the fbi would dub him a twisted genius for mailing or hand delivering 15 more bombs over the years. his devices killed three and injured nearly two dozen more. all while puzzling investigators for leaving behind no traceable evidence. in 1995 the unabomber task force asked newspapers to publish a manifesto kaczynski

mill them. hoping it would generate new leads. it did. when david kaczynski recognized the thinking of his brother and reported him to the fbi. >> it wouldn't have been right to allow him to hurt anyone else. he had to be stopped in some way and that was the only way i could think to stop him. >> on april 3rd, 1996, investigators invest arrested -- lincoln montana. there they found journals detailing his crimes just $32.80 to his name. and something else. >> federal agents have turned up a life bomb at the home of the man the government believes is the unabomber. >> kaczynski's campaign affair finally over. >> are you the unabomber? >> ultimately in 1998, he said he was, pleading guilty and spending the rest of his life in prison. dana griffin nbc news. >> thank you dana griffin for

that. after the break, everybody, a look inside the legal chaos for former president trump that goes beyond the odd places classified documents were allegedly found at mar-a-lago. my next guest says some of the legal team working on trump's most important matters have never even met or spoken to one another. we'll be right back. n and i like to hike. we eat healthy. we exercise. i noticed i wasn't as sharp as i used to be. my wife introduced me to prevagen and so i said "yeah, i'll try it out." i noticed that i felt sharper, i felt like i was able to respond to things quicker. and i thought, yeah, it works for me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome... shortness of breath... and irregular heartbeat

could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist and ask about attr-cm. (vo) consumer reports evaluates vehicles for car shoppers in... reliability, safety, owner satisfaction, sound like you? and road-test evaluations... and the results are in. subaru is the twenty twenty-three best mainstream automotive brand, according to consumer reports. and subaru has seven consumer reports recommended models. solterra, forester, outback, crosstrek, ascent, impreza, and legacy. it's easy to love a brand you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. (vo) with verizon, you can now get a private 5g network. so you can do more than connect your business, you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work.

(vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on.

my mental health was much better, but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight. ingrezza is a prescription medicine to treat adults with td movements. ingrezza is different. it's the simple, once-daily treatment proven to reduce td that's #1 prescribed. people taking ingrezza can stay on their current dose of most mental health meds. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to any of its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including sleepiness. don't drive, operate heavy machinery, or do other dangerous activities until you know how ingrezza affects you.

other serious side effects include potential heart rhythm problems and abnormal movements. it's nice people focus more on me. ask your doctor about #1 prescribed, once-daily ingrezza. learn how you could pay as little as zero dollars at ingrezza.com ♪ ingrezza ♪ wayfair has nice prices at ingrezza.com so you can have nice things. hah! kelly clarkson, we have a kid... and harold. wayfair's got just what you need... performance fabrics, stains don't stand a chance. no chance! -woo! dog friendly and wallet friendly... pug-proved. get nice things with nice prices at wayfair. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ as we have been reporting,

there is startling new evidence that -- former president donald. from becoming the first president ever to face federal criminal charges. the 49-page indictment feels stunning details, including pictures allegedly showing stacks of boxes containing classified documents that trump kept in a mar-a-lago bathroom or room and storage rooms. so how strong is the prosecution's case? and what are the trump team's legal challenges? joining me now is former federal prosecutor in new york magazine contributing writer on cushenbury. and back with me msnbc legal analyst and criminal defense attorney denis swallows as well. english let me start with you. and if you will, and just talk to me about the strength of the case of the prosecution now after having read this indictment? >> yeah, well it looks to be a pretty solid case. it is hard to judge these things at this point in time. because an indictment is still just a set of allegations. right? defending gets an opportunity obviously to defend. so we are getting one side of this at the moment. but, there is a very impressive

array of types of evidence that the indictment reflects. documents, text messages recordings. the photos. recordings and notes from trump's own lawyer. at one point in time. so it appears that the special counsel and all the reporting indicates so much that he and his colleagues conducted a pretty exhaustive investigation. there have been reports about how they interviewed everyone at mar-a-lago. and that sort of thing. in order to try to run everything to the ground. and indictment appears to reflect that. pretty exhaustive approach. >> danny, i want to talk about two things with you. first of, all the strategy for a delay. right? let's draw this thing out as we know trump's legal team is going to try to do. and the actual defense. once it has to eventually go to trial? >> i do believe they are going to need to delay anyways. the speedy trial act requires cases to be brought to trial within 70 days of the arraignment. but in a complicated case like this there is no real advantage to hold the government to that timeline because they are pretty much ready as is evidence by the indictment. is the defense that needs time to prepare. now as for the defense, take

away everything that trump has been saying at a podium. i don't think that helps them. instead i think the real defense is his legal team defense that will look a little like this. and you tell me what you think, judge yasmin, tough but fair, emphasis on tough. this is probably what we will see. it will be a tale of, look, we did get notice. we tried to work with the government and we worked with the agency. the agency referred this to the doj and the doj was unreasonable. they didn't let us do rolling production. they didn't let us, they picked an arbitrary date for compliance. they put the heat on us. other than that there is a lot of wiggle room. >> but the former president was not compliant. weigh in on that if you will. having kind of a live back and forth here if we can. a pre-child trial. >> yeah, no look no surprise. but dina i think has constructed a pretty good narrative. i mean, at the end of the day's offense has to have some relationship to the facts. so at least a good defense

right? and you need a competing narrative ideally. and i don't know if that would necessarily carry the day to an acquittal. but, look the name of the game here is not necessarily an acquittal. first of, all it will be delayed, delay, delay. opec trump becomes the president and pardon himself. but if this does go to trial all trump asked to do is persuade one person on the jury of his story, right? or that he's being persecuted on the jury will hang. and trump has a unique public megaphone here. so it doesn't have to be, like an airtight defense that commences everybody here in the media. i mean, his audience is going to be a narrow one of the end of the day of this one does go to trial. >> and that is likely, danny, how the defense is approaching. an understanding just that. saying, listen,? >> yeah, they will try this to these particular jurors. and that is exactly right. i mean, you can get some reasonable doubt. all you need is really one juror to hang this case. and then you have the really complicated issue of a self pardon if trump gets elected. will he tried to pardon himself? that is not really a trial defense. the key here is making this a

political case. putting the doj on trial at the trial. to the extent that the judge lets trump and given the judge that trump got i would probably guess that the judge might let trump put on the defense that the trump defense team wants to put on. really there are two main ways you can approach at events like this. the trump team can just point that everybody justifies and say that they are lying. and that is not really a very effective defense. yes, you don't have to put on a defense. but generally the jury wants to hear your alternate theory of the case. and that is going to be the alternate theory. this is a political prosecution. these people are all in line with the government. this is joe biden's doj my political opponent. if he can get all that evidence in and it is admissible? then he might be able to persuade one or two jurors. remember, what have the country voted for him. >> two things i want to touch on. first i want to touch on some of the writing that you've talked about when it comes to trump's legal team and then daniel and talk about judge cannot. so you write this for new york magazine, multiple lawyers working for trump however told

me there is no meaningful coordination across the groups. there are no standing medians or calls. a common feature of large descents teams handling complex matters on the path for a single client provide updates or prepared notes amongst the groups. even today some of the lawyers working on trump's most important matters have never met or even spoken to another. and they have little insight into what is happening in the proceedings. they are not directly working on how problematic is this on the former president? >> it is a serious problem. and i think probably danny could attest to that as well. i, mean you have a very unique defendant facing multiple investigations and different jurisdictions. and they are all occurring something easily. and so for the lawyers to be sort of so decentralized and out of my, so that is not the best situation. now, this is trump's doing at the end of the day. great? the lawyers are not creating this, he sets it up the way he wants to set it up. he is the client. and i think you know, after that piece was written and posted a big later on thursday after the indictment was returned there have been some changes. it seems in the legal team.

great? a couple of the, the two lawyers who are leading the defense on the classified documents investigation resigned, allegedly, and they have just been fired. but -- todd blanche is not taking the home. he is a lawyer former federal prosecutor who was added to the defense team in manhattan. so whether intended or not that is actually sort of a move in the right direction if you will. sort of trying to unify this defense team. streamline it. make sure people are coordinated. focused, working in the same direction. and i think whether it is too late or not, that remains to be seen. but there is still time to improve the situation i think. >> and the two big things the former president has going for him right now? the jurisdiction, florida, and the judge, judge aileen -- >> absolutely, trump appointed judge, a lot of enough to get her kicked out. but here is the thing, if you are trump, here is the interesting tragic idea. at the end of the case you move for a judgment of acquittal, a judge can take away from the

jury and that is not reviewable. something to think about way off in the distance. but it is possible. >> thank you both, a pre-charles charles as we just said here on msnbc. still ahead everybody. 40 days, that is how long for young kids survived in the amazon after a plane crash left them stranded in the jungle. the incredible story of their survival and their rescue, that's coming up. ocado and sea salt. ingredients like these make the subway series elite. that avocado's - got bravado. try the subway series menu. their tastiest refresh yet. (wheezing) asthma isn't pretty. it's the moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. because one dose a day helps keep my asthma symptoms under control. and with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler,

trelegy helps improve lung function so i can breathe easier for a full 24 hours. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. trelegy contains a medicine that increases risk of hospitalizations and death from asthma problems when used alone. when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid, like in trelegy, there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase risk of thrush and infections. get emergency care for serious allergic reactions. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ♪ what a wonderful world. ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - because breathing should be beautiful.

♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ need relief for tired, achy feet? or the energy to keep working? there's a dr. scholl's for that.

dr. scholl's massaging gel insoles have patented gel waves that absorb shock to hard-working muscles and joints, for all-day energy. i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000. hi, i'm katie, i've lost 110 pounds on golo in just over a year. i was a diet soda addict,

and i needed to have a diet soda every morning as my eye-opener. with the release, the cravings are gone. golo worked for me when i thought nothing would work for me. the first few weeks were really astonishing how quickly and how easily it came off, how much better i felt, what a change it made so fast. i feel like anything is possible after accomplishing what i've done with golo. before i go, i want to share

with you an absolutely amazing story of survival back on may 1st a small aircraft carrying three adults and four young indigenous children crashed over the amazon rain forest in columbia. the three adults all sadly died in the crash. but when authorities discovered the wreckage, the children were nowhere to be found. that was until yesterday. after 40 days of searching, which involved 150 soldiers and rescue dogs all or children, the youngest just 11 months old were somehow found alive. the president of columbia saying a statement that the youngsters are, quote, an example of survival and that this miracle will remain in history. unbelievable. that wraps it up for me, i am yasmin this weekend, make sure to capture -- led by my colleague -- along with -- and yet menendez and simone

sanders townsend, best night eight pm eastern on -- as crimea we back tomorrow in the chair to be and we certainly can also catch me this coming tuesday with live coverage from miami on the trump arraignment. simon starts right now. ht now ♪ ♪ ♪ greetings everyone, you are watching symone. we are following unprecedented developments at this hour. former president donald trump indicted for a second time. this time facing seven criminal charges 37 federal felony counts. for a range of infractions. unauthorized retention of records, conspiracy and false statements. all in the classified documents case. we are digging into the exhaustive efforts and the case against the first former u.s. president to be charged with federal crimes. now productively donald trump's mega political allies are threatening retaliation. but it is all about that base. and while this could be damning legally