>> a little bit of news to share before we. go one hour today just didn't feel like enough. so i'll be back for an hour of special coverage of the trump indictments tonight at seven pm eastern. so come back and hang out we have a lot more to discuss. but stay right where you are because alex witt reports starts right now. >> thanks, jen. and we have breaking, news a dramatic story unfolding this hour in philadelphia.

a major interstate collapse. the roadway is now closed in both directions. we have details for there for you in just a little bit. i'll see developing right now, new concerns about a dangerous atmosphere in florida. this ahead of trump's court appearance, there are some new fears to share with you today. i bet you all a very good day from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome everyone, to alex witt reports. developing this hour, in just over 48 hours, former president donald trump will surrender to authorities in miami where he will face a second arraignment. this one on 37th. felony federal felony counts. stepping from an investigation into his mishandling of classified documents. trump making multiple campaign stops this weekend. despite to the indictment saying he is a victim of a politicized justice system. >> they are not coming after me. they're coming after you and i'm just standing in their way. the baseless indictment of me by the biden administration's

weaponized department of injustice will go down as among the most horrific abuses of power. in the history of our country. >> well trump's valet he was federally indicted alongside trump was seeing traveling with him yesterday. you see him. there he tuned faces arraignment. earlier today, trump attorney and trump's former attorney general gave differing views on the case. >> an indictment is a one-sided document. he has a defense and the defense is real. he had the presidential records act. which only he has in play. >> if even half of it is true than he is toast. it is a pretty detailed indictment. and it is very damning. >> and new reactions day from capitol hill. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle give different views. different use on the severity of the case. >> the indictment it was just stunning the brazenness and the

premeditation. the active efforts to obstruct and mislead. and i think that if the evidence backed up the allegations of the indictment, it's a pretty powerful case. >> he said time and time again he's declassified this material. this is the most political thing i've ever seen. >> mr. jordan and donald trump and his defense team had tried to spin this any way they want but the evidence based on his own recording, his own voice says to the contrary. >> and a new look at how all -- feel about the indictment. a just released abc news ipsos poll finds that nearly half of americans agree trump should have been charged in this case. 91% of democrats view the indictment as serious, while only 38% of republicans do. and even if convicted, donald trump is vowing to stay in the 2024 presidential race, telling politico quote. i will never leave. there is a lot to unpack for you with our reporters.

analysts in place covering all the angles of the story. we're gonna begin with nbc's garrett haake was outside the miami courthouse where donald trump will be arraigned on tuesday. garrett welcome what are we hearing from trump as he prepares to surrender? ? >> the court has boggle become the center of the political universe with donald trump reindeer on tuesday. in the meantime the former president spent the weekend lashing out at the charges against him and the prosecutors pursuing him. donald trump this week and taking his federal prosecutors to the campaign trail. >> you are dealing with crazy lunatic's. >> the now twice impeached former president rallying his party against the dust assist in which he claims has been politicized. >> this vicious persecution is a travesty of justice. you are watching joe biden try to jail his leading political opponents. >> mr. trump's two saturday speeches in his first public comment since friday's unsealing of a historic 37

count federal indictment against him. prosecutors accuse mr. trump of illegally taking classified national security documents with him to mar-a-lago when he left the white house. storing them in securely and boxes stash and a bathroom into the ballroom stage and sometimes showing them off that conspiring with an aide to hide them from investigators. >> mr., president why did you keep notice -- >> nothing wrong whatsoever. we did absolutely nothing wrong. take a look at the presidential records act. we did it by the book. perfect. >> with the national archives they say that it requires presidents to turn over their official records before leaving office. meanwhile mr. trump's primary rivals largely echoing his claims of the department of justice weaponizing against conservatives. >> mr. trump's legal defense and his desire to go on offense politically is now basically indistinguishable and being echoed by's primary rivals, the ones who they really cannot matrimony is fundraising. the former president setting

out a deluge of emails to supporters since he was first indicted, hoping to break in cash as he did after he was indicted in the north. the cash that can fuel his campaign on to the next stop. >> okay garrett hague thank you so much for that. nbc news justice intelligence correspondent kaitlan is joining me now. also for. miami can, welcome. what do you see here today and how are things likely to play out on tuesday? >> it is pretty quiet here right now, alex. even in this area around the courthouse remains open to the public. on tuesday the arraignment is scheduled for three pm and donald trump is going to have to move here from mar-a-lago. which is about an hour away by car or more. it is not clear whether he is gonna do a motorcade or be flown closer to this location. when he gets there were told to be brought into this courthouse through some kind of underground passageway. and then the standard process for federal defendants surrendering will unfold which includes donald trump being processed by both the fbi and

federal marshals. they both of their own procedures which involve taking fingerprints and mug shots and in the case of the marshals other things potentially dna. they are not talking exactly about what they're going to do but his passport will be confiscated and he is essentially in their custody of that moment, as a federal defendants. then they will go into the courtroom for a first appearance before a magistrate judge and they're gonna combine that with the arraignment where the charges will be presented and will be asked if he waives reading of the indictments which most defendants. do we'll be asked how he pleads we expect him to plead not guilty. then the magistrate judge will have to of course talk about whether he'll be detained. no one expects that to happen but also what can get to conditions of any will be imposed upon. him for example about the things he can say about the prosecutors or the charge of the people involved in this case. because defendants are not normally not allowed to do the kinds of things that he has been doing lately in terms of savaging the court system. so that is how all of that is

expected to play out here on tuesday. at three pm. >> so it may be quiet there today but there are some people very hard at work as we know, through wsvn the reporting of barricades and sharpshooters as far as security measures and then you have the new york times reporting on violent rhetoric from trump supporters portraying this whole indictment as an active war. is there a real sense that the scene could turn violent on tuesday? >> there are very real security concerns. the things you talk about, the barricades and sharpshooters will be tuesday. right now they are not here but we expect this entire block to be cordoned off if not even a further perimeter. there are really two separate concerns which is the concern about a mass violent protest, like we saw on january 6th, and there is a concern about extremism's. right now i've seen private intelligence reports saying there is no evidence of social media that trump supporters are gathering for any kind of mass protest even though some people are calling for it. but the lone extremist issue is

unpredictable. and what we are seeing with this incredibly extreme rhetoric from donald trump and his supporters, calling the entire system corrupt, those are the kinds of things were only takes one or two people to take that literally. and decide to be violence. and that is what milan forsman sources are extremely worried about and that's what we're going to see a huge security perimeter on tuesday, alex. >> looking a little further the trump appointed josh aileen cannon is not presiding over tuesday's arraignment. however she was randomly selected to oversee the entire trial. as you well know she ruled in trump's favor appointing a special master in the fbi review of the documents that were seized at mar-a-lago. that ruling of course was later overturned by appeals court. is she likely to recuse herself? or could she be even forced off the trial? >> it is possible, alex. most people i've talked to practice down here and no candidate do not believe that she is going to recuse herself on this trial.

and they also say it is a high bar for the justice department to file a motion for her to recuse. although it is not impossible given that the appeals court really slapped her down. and most legal experts thought that what you did in terms of that search warrant and imposing a special master and interfering in the justice department investigation was really out of bounds as a judge. but it looks easy don't of this case and there are some people that think that is a good thing. because she is a very pro trump judge. and if the justice department wins a conviction before her court. well that will send a message. on the other hand there's a lot that you can do to delay this case and entertain out of bands motions. to really make up the prosecution. so there are some people who are very concerned about aileen cannon as the judge presiding over this prosecution. alex. >> can, really quick, when is this trial likely to start and how will it last? >> under the speedy trial rule it can go to trial in 70 days. that almost never happens and generally these kinds of federal cases take as long as a year to go to trial. a lot will depend on how judge

cannon if she is the judge, the pace that she sets. because the defense will ask for continuance is and will make motions. those motions could be appealed. so the drought really has a lot of influence on how fast this case progresses. but it is really very plausible that this case is still unfolding in the heart of the presidential campaign, alex. >> stunning. okay, can delaney thank you so much from miami. in the, meantime everyone, breaking news in a very dramatic scene is unfolding right now in philadelphia. check this out. that was a truck fire, clearly. but it has caused a major bridge to completely collapse. on interstate 95. look at the aftermath down there. that is the northbound side of i-95. all lanes in both directions have been indefinitely closed at this point and to make matters worse, the fire department says that the runoff from the burning truck is now causing some explosions underground. in fact, the flames have been so intense that rescuers have been unable to get to the

vehicle it is buried under there. there is nowhere yet on what has caused this entire thing to unfold. we very much for monitoring this developing situation. we'll bring you more when we have it. what you did not know about insiders in trump world and the role they play leading to this indictments we are back in 60 seconds. 6 seconds. (vo) this is sadie. she's on verizon, and she has the new myplan where she gets exactly what she wants and only pays for what she needs. she picks only the perks she wants and saves on every one! all with an incredible new iphone. act now and get iphone 14 pro on us when you switch. it's your verizon. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

it's easy to get lost in investment research. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. >> new today a fascinating insider look surrounding donald trump in the role they played leading to this indictments. among those highlighted, a secretary telling prosecutors that trump himself had been packing. and looking through boxes. and a young political lay telling prosecutors, trump showed him a classified map of military operations in the foreign country. but then trump telling him to stand back. because it was a secret documents. joining me now on the phone, we have jacqueline eliminate,

congressional investigation report is one of two byline centers washington post article. also timothy hefei, former u.s. attorney for the western district of virginia and lisa reuben msnbc legal analyst. that we have all three of you here and jackie, you first. what strikes me about what you have highlighted in the articles is how many people trump has dragged into this into his whole plans. to either not turn over documents, or move them around. >> did these people know this whole thing they've been illegal? >> that is a really good question. so far there is only been one of the personnel who has actually been indicted along with donald trump. and that was somebody who was listed as a coconspirator. well, nada, as was outlined and justified in the 49-page indictments. but it did become clear as you just noted that there were a handful of other trump employees and trump lawyers

that were involved in facilitating the former president and trying to hold on to these boxes. including evan corcoran who is described in the indictment as attorney won, according to people that we spoke with. my colleague jen psaki and i. and he was somebody who had fought against testifying in court. had sided attorney-client privilege. but he ultimately was compelled by a judge to provide a legal note which was recordings of his conversations that he had had with the former president and memorialized himself. >> jacqui, that is important because trump's lawyer evan corcoran is providing recordings. it is not often that you get donald trump on tape in an email sending a text. he is notorious for not having behaving that way in terms of communication. what did evan corcoran say? what did he reveal? >> yep. we are not exactly sure what he

recorded himself saying. we were told by those familiar with the matter that normally a lawyer way have notes on a legal path. and not memorialize them in an audio recording but that corcoran was driving to some event after a meeting with trump and instead vocally detailed all of the notes about the case. but we do know that corcoran in the indictment provided information about trump's telling him that he did not want him looking through his boxes. he also allegedly said well, what if what happened if we just do not respond at all and don't play ball with them? or he said and he said wouldn't be better if we just told them that we don't have anything there? so it seems that this came from either the written notes that corcoran turned over or these

recordings that corcoran provided. either way they are very detailed. and obviously, they are damning pieces of evidence. prosecutors included in this indictment. >> yeah. timothy you also the former lead investigator on the house january six select committee. one of the things you learned while investigating trump was how he was handling documents. what strikes me most about this case? >> yes, alex. thanks very much for the question. we learn from a lot of witnesses that there was a very cavalier approach to the presidential records act. the important obligations that were maintained in official documents. witnesses told us that the president would tear things up. and throw them in the trash. several of the documents that we obtained from the national archives appear to have been torn and taken, taped back together. consisted with what we heard about fishing stuff either the trash can. so i don't know anything unique

about the new indictment that was filed by the special counsel. but the lax approach to adherence, to the important standards of maintaining presidential records and classified information all sounds very consistent with what we heard from people inside the white house and not the presidents approach to important statutes. >> okay, lisa. we're gonna show the future some pictures a log on the campaign, still serving his valiant. duties for people in legal trouble, is this brazen? or is a business as usual? >> you, know alex i think it is really playing with fire. one of the questions you posed in your earlier segment was about what kind of conditions might we impose on the defendants during their arraignments? and ken was talking through some of them. another one that he did not to mention is oftentimes something which tom can speak about it and i. can't often when defendants are accused of a conspiracy, one of

the conditions of their not being detained pre trial is that they don't speak to each other. so they cannot continue a conspiracy. as detailed in the indictments, one of the things that struck me was that this conspiracy is alleged to have gone through august of 2022. it is not characterized as an ongoing conspiracy. that having done that, one of the conditions we might see from the magistrate judge is that trump and not to have to stop communicating with each other. which obviously would mean that they would also to stop traveling with the president as he did yesterday, alex. >> that is interesting. i'm glad you brought that up. let me talk about the indictment, jacqui. because it says that they told the fbi agent several times, he had no knowledge of how the boxes got from point a to point b. then, prosecutors presented a phone records. also text exchanges including one between ottawa and the trump family member, asking him specifically about boxes that were being moved to trump's private suite.

the woman added that there was no room on the plane tibet minister. that was a course in new jersey. there was no room for them on the plane. is there any idea which family member he she was texting? >> we've not figure that out yet. alex it obviously there are a number of women who it could be. ivanka trump tiffany trump. former first lady melania trump. we have not received confirmation of who that person is. but that is somebody who was in and out of trump's bedroom and residents. during this time periods. over the course of several days and in between trump's legal team received the may 11th subpoena and evan corcoran layer to his own search on behalf of trump. to be responsive to that subpoena he carried around 65 boxes back and forth between the residents. and trump's storage room.

so, it would've been hard to miss. but again, still unsure who this woman's. >> as a former prosecutor tim, do you think the doj has had a line? is he feeling pressure to flip? >> absolutely. the department brought criminal charges because his criminal exposure. he faces present time. and that creates a very powerful incentive for him to minimize exposure. and potentially providing information to prosecutors incriminating information about the former presidents specific intent to possess these documents which could be really important. but he met with prosecutors already. and lies during the interview. at least this one is alleged in the indictment. his role is so central as the president's personal aids just the role he played as a valley in the white house. when the president was in office. that he has a lot of information that could be

extremely useful. additional information, to the special prosecutor. i will also say that if he cooperates and again, nobody knows if that will happen. he loved rock information about the other takes the special counsel is investigating. i spent a lot of time working january 6th case. now that it was inside the, white house on january six, he had interaction with the president and others that today. he might also have very important information that would bear upon the other case with the special counsel investigating direct information on the present state of mind intent on january 6th. >> i would say he is feeling the pressure then certainly. trump's arraignment set for three pm tuesday in miami is miami friendlier territory for him than say new york? what are you expecting to see on tuesday? >> i think it is friendlier territory for him the new york and certainly friendlier than d.c. where most people thought that this indictment would be brought. alex, on tuesday. traditionally in arraignments against him knows as well, it's something that takes very

little time. it is usually perfunctory. but nothing is perfunctory where we are talking about donald. trump it is my hope that i will be in that courtroom on tuesday. and i will get to share with you and some of our viewers the ways in which this arraignment deviates from the ways in which most arraignments work in the federal system. which is quick and mostly about what is going to happen in the future. in terms of scheduling next appearances. thompson, as we talk about motion practice in the like. but again we're talking about a defendant here who is very generous not only in his acts but in how he interacts with the justice system overall. and as one former president donald trump, alex. >> we will be waiting. thank you so much for that. lisa tim and jackie thank you all. we'll have more right now on the breaking news in philadelphia. a trump fire caused a portion of interstate 95 it major national highway their, to collapse and george soliz is right near the scene. a lot is happening there, can you give us a quick update? and also there is a car that is

still stuck under there? or truck? can you explain is going on beneath what wearable to see? >> good afternoon, alex. the images certainly telling a story here. officials tell me there's a least one car still buried underneath thousands of pounds of concrete and rubble. still no word on if there are injuries here at the sites. we know that heavy machinery will of course have to come here to the sites to begin moving some of this debris. earlier of course the fires are still ongoing at the source of this collapse. fire so intense that we are hearing reports of manholes in the area that we're acting with flames and exploding. i talked one man who drove over. this he said it is a miracle that no one was on the actual highway. when it buckled. eventually first response variable to keep cars from getting there as this buckles. the southbound lanes of the highway also compromised there as well and i believe we have some sound officials here with an update from what they said earlier about this collapse. take a listen. >> we believe it is appeals. that's what you see burning right now from the vehicle and

again like everyone said, it is kind of like a collapse of a problem in the roadway so you cannot get, again, any clubs that we deal with has to move heavy equipment to get to the scene of the fire. >> alex, again we are waiting for the heavy machinery to begin arriving here on site. this is a big highway, a national highway. it is going to be a traffic nightmare to say the least. and this investigation is just unfolding, alex. >> what a. mass or the tragedy as well. thank you so much door scalise for that. can republicans be serious about saying the department of justice is being weaponized? after seeing that in detail trump indictments? congresswoman madeleine dean has an answer next on that. and is china really using cuba to spy on the u.s.? we'll ask about that as well. we could have saved on our trip instead of during our trip.

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defends donald trump over his federal indictment. >> i go on the presidents words and he did so the supreme court said that's what counts. we can have all the things the jacks mitt wants to say but everyone sees this for the political operation it is. the standard is the standard. i did not set the standard, the constitutional supreme court did. and they did it and unanimous fashion. it does not bother me because again you can't have the obstruction of somebody with no underlying crime. >> joining me now is pennsylvania congresswoman natalie dean a member of the house judiciary and foreign affairs committee. good friend to, us welcome back to the show. you just heard jim jordan defending trump. calling the indictment a political operation. what do you say to the allegations that the doj is being weaponized in this case? >> actually what we are seeing is the rule of law played out. if you read this very concise and concrete indictments, it

shows in the first 27 pages, it tells the story of how the former president retained hundreds of classified highly classified and secret documents. moved him around, he was asked by the national archives and the fbi to work with him internally documents and of course he returned some and not all. he had them he knew they were classified. he showed them on at least two occasions in july for september. september 2021. two others. and i want to read to you from page three. trump said in this was on a recording. he knew he was being recorded. trump said the vice president i could have declassified it. now i can't. no this is still a secret. he nuclei classified documents. and one of the most elusive lines he has ever admitted he was not president and he did not have the right or the authority to declassify them or to have them.

so mr. jordan has just been completely wrong. this is not weaponization in fact if there is a double standard i would say that president trump was treated unfairly fair. they tried for months and months and months to have him comply. and he didn't. and when he was subpoenaed he deceived his own lawyer who wound up returning 38 documents as trump and his aide secret it away hundreds more. >> point well taken, this was not isolated incident, a play-doh for months and months. jordan, as judiciary chair on his request for aging merrick garland to provide documents for mar-a-lago last year, that is a deadline for friday. are you concerned that he is trying to interfere in trump's prosecution? how do democrats on the committee plan to approach the oversight process? >> well this is not going investigation. and what i believe as a citizen of this country is that the independence of the judiciary. the independents of different

agencies and different branches. it would be interference for the committee to somehow try to weigh in now, in the midst of a criminal indictments multiple criminal indictments. so jim jordan is just completely wrong. sadly he along with some of the republicans have just very extreme and not caring for the rule of law. and what happens here is it is dangerous once the former president did. but compromising our national security. compromising our men and women who collect secrets, and protect them but what is happening with these republicans and their irresponsible statements some of them are even trying to incite violence around this indictments. or set of indictments. that is as dangerous as what mr. trump did. >> yeah. we're gonna switch gears here. and gaetz to spying, if you will. because for the biden administration denied the wall street general port that china and cuba had reached an agreement to put electronic

eavesdropping facilities and cuba calling it's inaccurate. now, the biden ministration official tells nbc news the china has been spying on the u.s. from cuba for years. saying that it inherited this problem and the facility was even upgraded in 2019 while trump was in office. what do you know i believe to be true? >> i have seen both of those conflicting reports, alex. i don't know the truth of it. we do know that china eavesdrops on america when it can and i don't think we have any of the facts regarding the cuba installation and i will make sure and i am sure that i'm on the foreign affairs committee as you know, i am sure that mr. recall and mr. meeks will be getting us updates on that. but it does remind me it is quite timely as we are talking about this grievous other indictments against the former president, who compromised or national security, it reminds me of how important the people are.

who detect these things and trying to discover for us where we are in jeopardy. who is listening in to what. mr. trump, obviously, had no concern for any of those heroes and american's public servants. it is really critical that the rule of law we upheld, that mr. trump be held to account. because it is as john adams said, and jv raskin so often reminds us, we are a nation of laws not of man. >> amanda, congressman madeleine dean, thank you so much for your time on the sunday. >> thank you for covering the on any fire. thank you very much for that. >> it is in your backyard, right there in pennsylvania. goodnight. all, right everyone over presidential candidate who is convicted of a crime. and that person stays in the race, running for president from prison. what would the framers of the constitution say? i will ask that very question to my next guest. to my next guest ♪ but now i've found a way that's right for me. ♪

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for his classified documents case won't stop donald trump from running for reelection. the reports one question about the possibility and iran's playing yesterday and trump said quote, i will never. leave michael waldman president of the center for justice at nyu and chief speech writer for president clinton and author of the new book the secret majority, how the supreme court divided america. it is a great book michael.

i welcome you and we'll get into the book in just a little bit. but first want to get your reaction to trump's remarks. why isn't there a provision that the constitution preventing a convicted felon from running for president? wasn't the considerations the will of the people? or perhaps it was an unfathomable scenario for our founding fathers? or both? >> i think when they set up the presidency they knew what was going to be george washington. and you really think that much beyond it. some things in the constitution orbit. this is very specific. you have to be 35 years old. you have to be a natural born citizen. so, in fact others have run for president while in prison. eugene debs in 1920 got 900,000 votes. that is interestingly not something that they planned ahead for. they also said the president is a heat, which we have not crossed that barrier yet. >> that's a good point as well.

the eugene debs story, that is absolutely fascinating to me. that was once for the election in 1920 he had been convicted interestingly on the espionage act. which charges against donald trump remains the same. he was a believe part of a socialist party and getting some sort of a war speech. an anti-war speech and those are the provisions under which he was convicted. but absolutely fascinating he ran for president from a jaelle. >> that is right. and he had many followers and was not because he gave documents to a foreign power. it was because he opposed world war i. certainly the founders and everybody sense than have assumed that somebody is going to run for president or be present would be somebody ethical enough, enough imbued by american core values, that they would not be in prison for major felonies either. i certainly think that with

president uncharted territory. >> absolutely. to your point. debs to get about three and a half percent of the vote, remarkable. let's go back to republican lawmakers and trump supporters. who as you know are slamming the indictment. weaponization of the justice department. how do you view these claims from the constitutional perspective? >> well anybody was charged with a crime is presumed innocent. including donald trump. they have all kinds of defenses they can make. it's very hard to make a case that somebody who is guilty of a crime is the victim of selective prosecution. the question about weaponization of the justice department is, generally speaking, a real one. we know that for example donald trump's attorney general told the u.s. attorney in new york to back off of the pretty important charges earlier. we always have to be careful about that. that is an appropriate question for checks and balances. there is absolutely no reason in this instance to think that

there is a problem and that merrick garland into the port's point of the special prosecutor is to give the independence of somebody not elected and not chosen by joe biden to do this. but it is of course a political matter and hard to avoid charges lycra nothing else. >> let's get to your book as i said. it is fantastic. it is called the super majority how the supreme court about america. fascinating for anybody interested in the supreme court and history around it. i want to read you an excerpt that i found particularly striking in the wake of last june, it's a remarkable three rulings we talked about. the new super majority is radically shifted the law rationale for how movements are made. the justices now claim to be guided by originalism. the constitution's meaning they the rule is fixed. their job is to go back in time to ask the founders what americans should do today. their grasp of history is ritualized and as unrealistic as the costume characters out of medieval times themed

restaurants. michael r. you say that the current supreme court is out of touch with present today country? >> no offense intended to medieval times. yes, our constitution was designed in our courts have always interpreted as being something for a modern, growing, changing country. now we are, saying no, the only way we should interpret the constitution is to say what did it mean in 1791 at the time it was ratified. and that is the interest in views of property owning white man from a very different era. black people were enslaved women could not vote. that is how the supreme court over many many centuries now has ever interpreted the constitution. it is explicitly reactionary and explicitly tries to turn back the clock. we saw that in the dobbs case overturning roe v. wade. we saw that in a really significant second amendment case. where they said they could not

consider public safety while assisting the constitutionality of a gun law with history tradition. which means what were the laws back in the colonial era. that to me isn't it's absurd way to run a modern country will create a crisis of confidence. >> i think you are 100% right, michael. it is a terrific, look everybody. thank you so much for joining us. appreciate your time on the sunday. in the, meantime the new security worries in miami ahead of tuesday, is karen lake inciting people? you have to hear what he said. coming your way, next. your way, next. w pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth lebrating.y app today. man, what are you doing?!

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kimberly guilfoyle hosting retribution -- then there is this message from kari lake at the georgia republican convention. >> if you want to get to president trump, you're gonna have to go through me and you're gonna have to go through 75 million americans just like me. i'm going to tell you -- most of us are card-carrying members of the nra. >> joining me now is don calloway, democratic strategist and founder the national voter protection action fund. susan del percio, republican strategist and david jolly, former republican congressman from florida. both msnbc political analysts. that was kind of chilling, guys. don, at the times is reporting that political violence experts say this portrayal of the indictment is an act of war is increasing the risk of actions. wordy -- where do you put the level of risk right now?

>> that was significant. i had not seen those clips. frankly, we get the briefings before we do the show. i was like of, course we're supposed to think that there is potential for violence here. that was very real. i had not seen those clips. as a guy who was six months away from january six when it happened. as a guy who's received death threats from conservative networks. that is very real and it's -- irresponsible coming from the folks who are still the flag buries a republican party leadership in 2083. i'm not gonna lie, i'm shaking here in realtime from having seen that. what i will say is four months if not for a couple years now, we have analyze what is the real utility of prosecuting folks from january 6th. this is it. we can see that people got a real jail sentences. some of the 30-day. some of them up to 18 years. -- props to merrick garland. we hope that those prosecutions can now be a deterrent act from folks carrying out further acts of violent even prospectively as their leaders called for

more violence. >> how do you -- how realistic do you think the prospects of violence are susan? >> it's very likely. the only thing that will stop it is a law enforcement. just for the record, it's law enforcement that trump supporters and donald trump himself have said are part of the deep state and you should not trust. we have to trust them. they will do their jobs. the group rallies if you will can inspire danger as january six did. it's also the lone wolf mentality of people looking to create -- make a statement if you will. and then frankly can come on both sides of the aisle. it is frightening. that a woman who i am choosing not to name was on -- trying to rally up people to get them excited to get them angry. frankly, i think she did to seek attention. so we would be talking about it. there are a lot of others who are very dangerous and it is

very concerning. >> is that what this is all about. do you think, is a people who -- are trying to seek attention. do they understand how dangerous their rhetoric is today just not care? >> look, the grifter's are going to come out. i think their worries you hear and unfortunately, her statement was wrong. prosecutors don't have to go through 75 million people. they just have to go through a jury of donald trump's peers to seek justice. that's the way this will ultimately be netted out. i would move to avenues that kevin mccarthy, ron desantis, any of the presidential candidates or house members who are using language about two systems of justice or the weaponization of justice. here is why that matters so much, alex. one, it's false. it is laying the predicate. just like on january six. the predicate was the election was stolen. at the invitation was from to d.c. on january 6th. the charge was go to the

capitol. they're laying a predicate right now. they false predicate that somehow the government has been weaponized against donald trump. the problem with that rhetoric, the weaponization. it says there is a victim. in this, case don trump is saying i'm not the only victim, you are as well. that sets the scene for what could be their lone wolves are frankly some type of organized activity we're seeing imitations now for buses going to miami this week. that ultimately leads to violence. it's a shame. i would say the people we typically consider responsible. mccarthy and others. they bear a burden right now just a kari lake did. >> okay, guys. i want to stay with me. take a short break but now that trump has been indicted, what is the 2024 presidential race going to look like and what happens when the unimaginable becomes reality. we'll explain that next. plain that next. broke grad student so i like a sale. i think it was a good gift. it blew my mind.

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scene right now live outside the miami courthouse. we're about 48 hours, that could go from calm as you see there are two utter chaos as former president on trump is expected to appear for arraignment on federal charges. my panel is back with me. dom, will go to you to. first as all trump raced to face the judge tuesday, how do you envision this all playing out over the months to come, especially with the backdrop of the 2024 primaries in the election? >> i think that everyone else

in the race not named donald trump has been waiting for the moment in which some type of indictment or some other legal machinations will knock him out of the race. another worries, everyone is running for a number two and number to mean ember one when he is removed from the proceedings. that said, there is no constitutional precedent. no one knows what has to happen in the event that he is legally incapacitated. i guess that's an oxymoron. there is no legal incapacitation. -- if he is convicted. and the prosecution had said were seeking a speedy trial with -- put him into a potential trial. prior to the 2024 election. if he is convicted, he can still be the sitting republican nominee. it's an incredible question. i think everybody all along has been running for number two on the republican side. >> i know, and that's true, but why do you think they're not taking their shots where they can right now.

really quickly, with the exception of -- asa hutchinson, nobody is doing it. >> because the people they need to vote for them are still with him. that's a question and has to be -- the republican primary. i don't know why they're still with him. >> susan, trump told politico that he refuses to back down. he's gonna stay in the race even if he's convicted. he said i'll never leave. could he plausibly still be the gop presidential nominee during a trial. could republicans hand him the mantle again or will trump eons do that when old-school republicans -- shake their heads in defeat. >> absolutely could happen. there is nothing preventing it illegally. it's a likely to happen, frankly. i'm always worried when donald trump says all never, it seems like that means the door is open to. depending on how bad the legal issues get, if it means coming up with a deal to settle things and keep him out of jail long

term, he may just say i'll take it. >> is there really a scenario, david, word from could be incarcerated while running for president. is that a seriously where we're headed? >> yes, i think a reelection to biden. we don't know that trial schedule. that will began to get a said. what we do know is if donald trump out of his own affinity chooses not to take some type of plea deal. that keeps them out of prison, he could still run for president. however, if they go to trial, the odds are pretty good it be early summer late spring early summer. alex, of next year, the gop primary will be over by the second weekend march. we could be in a situation where donald trump secures enough elegance to become the republican nominee and then faces trial before a general election. that's a very plausible scenario. we know the trial schedule we, don't know all of the dynamics here. but our system is about to be tested. we're about to undergo a significant stress test, the

previous thing about do we also see violence or some type of ill behavior by voters. i don't, know we could be in for a very dark chapter. >> real, quick my friend yasmin vossoughian here in the studio. i know she's heading to miami to cover the event on tuesday. are you worried about security, david, you are the florida guy. >> yes, i'm worried about political leadership in florida and whether or not they strike a silver tone. from the miami mayor who was likely running to president with the florida governor is running for president. to a senator who is in miami's backyard. political leadership is also going to be tested. >> my sunday family, love you all, thank you very much and that is gonna do it for me on this edition of alex lowe reports. all see you again next saturday noon eastern yasmin sudan continues our coverage now. >>ow >> >> hey everybody, good afternoon to, you i'm yasmin vossoughian. we are following breaking news out of philadelphia. a truck fire