all be joined by a harvard constitutional law professor, laurence tribe, who says the indictment is a vindication for the rule of law. and the unhinged and dangerous gop effort to protect trump, congresswoman so lofgren breaks it down with me. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. less than 48 hours donald trump would be arraigned in federal court on miami, he is expected to surrender himself to authorities, you'll likely be arrested, both taken into custody before hemiami. he'll likely be arrested, booked, and taken into custody. of course, as you may know, this is his second indictment in just three months. despite that growing legal peril he finds himself in, during an interview with "politico" last night, trump vowed to continue

campaigning for president even if he were convicted. now, that is not entirely shocking to be honest. trump never admitted defeat after losing the election in the 2020 election. he's not going to tap out of the 2024 race when it's just getting started. but there's more to this move. it's not about politics. it has a bigger strategy at its core. as axios explains, the 2024 campaign is more than a race to return to the white house. this is a fight to stay out of prison. legal experts believe it's unlikely trump's criminal trial will be resolved before the 2024 election, so whoever wins the presidency could be in a position to influence trump's case, and if trump is the gop nominee, he could essentially be campaigning for his freedom, an unprecedented scenario in this country. according to axios, winning the

presidency would give a chance for sympathy or even pardon himself if convicted. his political rivals trying to beat trump, they have signaled they would pardon him or bring accountability to the doj. so beyond donald trump t republican party seems to be condoning or approving the actions that led to his second indictment. those who don't approve are simply drowned out. has anyone heard asa hutchinson's post on condemnation? i don't think so. the stakes couldn't be higher in this upcoming presidential election. donald trump could be fighting to pardon himself or we could see a gerald ford/richard nixon situation with another republican vowing to absolve trump of his sins iechlts more than blue versus red.

it's about donald trump's freedom. joining me now is mara wiley, a former assistant u.s. attorney. molly host of the fast policy and catie beck. i'll start with you. jack smith says he wants a speedy trial. as we mentioned by most accounts it certainly would not wrap up before the 2024 election. what is your reporting telling you about the conversations inside the justice department about this timeline, and is there any way for jack smith to expedite things up? >> the justice department has said in a filing if it goes to trial, they could wrap up their case in 20 to 21 days. what would prevent this from wrapping up before the election?

it would be all of the motions that happened before a trial and before jury selection. it would be donald trump's team for motions to dismiss the case and they would have a lot of argument and discussion on what witnesses could be put on the stand and what evidence could be brought to bear. that's something that depending how the court rules on the motion, we'll see the proceedings either speed up or slow down. one thing the justice department has in its favor, the southern district of florida is known to be a fairly quick jurisdiction. they like to move their cases. judges like to get them off their documents, and they do like to have speedy trials. we'll see if he's able to stall any lead-up to any trial. >> mara, let me get your reaction to a speedy trial and what that looks like. it could be about trump trying to keep himself out of prison. what does this say both about

the state of our politics and the legal institutions to be shielded from the politics. what will you be watching for? >> i'm certainly going to be watching for how the court watches all the delay motions we're going to see. let me be clear. any defendant has a right to bring legitimate motions in the case. that includes donald trump. but what we've seen from donald trump in the past is bringing cases not many lawyers thought he would have a chance of winning like the cases he brought over and over again for witnesses that didn't have executive privilege live steve bannon or using the motions to go after new york attorney general in her investigation and claimed it was a partisan witch hunt and used the judicial process to do that. we're going to see very aggressive motion practice.

i think we're going to see lots of politicking in those motions that have very little to do with the law. many of us looking and reading that indictment are sitting there, thinking, i'm glad i don't have to come up with a defense because it's very hard to come up with one. if it were not donald trump, i promise you the lawyers or anyone facing the evidence in that indictment would be saying we need a plea deal, and that is not going to happen here, but that means they'll politicize the judicial process, and the question is the judge who presides over this proceeding going to allow it? >> molly, your reaction that trump is running again to stay out of prison because i'm trying to gain the various scenarios. even if convicted while in office and he tries to pardon himself, that will certainly be legally tested all the way maybe up to the supreme court. if he says to a running mate, i'll put you on my ticket so long as i have to resign my

position, you'll pardon me. it's going to be the final issue of his political campaign. >> you'll remember he announced his candidacy a little bit early because he was worried about investigation. so trump has always thought of this as kind of very useful to stay out of jail. we thing appointing a special master, she's a very trump-friendly judge if she ends up being the judge. you could see her and him taking a long time to delay this, but the soon earth this would get going would be around the time of the gop primary and it seems like this kind of thing really delights the gop primary base. they love it when he fights with the federal government. they feel for some reason this is an issue they relate to.

>> katie, the biden administration is not commenting on this case. do we have any sense of what the white house is thinking on that front going forward, especially as we get closer to the election time? perhaps maybe if the investigation into the biden administration or specifically joe biden and his classified documents issue is resolved, would that change the dynamic in the white house and perhaps go into a different attack mode on it politically? >> i mean i think one of the reasons why you're seeing the justice department not comment is, one, it's absolutely not something they should do. it would be a violation of the justice department policy in so many ways. they're supposed to uphold the rule of law without fair or favor. they're not supposed to be seen as an arm of the law attacking the president. it's exactly why merrick garland created a special counsel in the first plate. he wanted to create separation. because he serves at the

pleasure of joe biden, he didn't feel it would be good to be directly overseeing this case. it would put merrick garland in a terrible position. so i don't think you're going to see that. however, to your point, that does leave this huge opening rhetorically for donald trump. joe biden will stay silent because he's not supposed to be using the department for political gain. one of the things that's different this time he'll be doing it with not just one but two different criminal cases, you know, going forth during the campaign, and if judges decide that this kind of rhetoric is impacting the case and is making it impossible to have a fair trial, they could try to curb that speech. then we don't know what's happening because this is uncharted territory for donald trump and the american public.

>> maya, since this indictment was unsealed or on the rise, there are reports that some trump supporters are calling for violence ahead of this arraignment on tuesday. what are you most concerned for as we approach this date and the people that are involved in it, whether it be jack smith or the judge or any of the attorneys working this case? >> we have to be worried about the rise in hate. we're seeing a right in anti-semitism, those who hate blacks and lgbtq. it's simple to say we're seeing proportions of a rise in violence that's unique and has been on the rise since joe biden

took office. we have to worry about the individuals paying attention to the disinformation, the rhetoric ratcheting up, just as we heard the rhetoric before january 6th how organized hate, the proud boys, oath keepers who faced prosecution actively engaged and worked with one another and had discussions with one another organize, but in this case, thanks to the prosecutions, we're hearing from groups like the sovereign poverty law center, which is one at the law center on civil human rights who's tracked it. they said, look, the prosecution is good, but it's driven down to local levels, so what we have is more local organizing and those individuals who show up are the ones we have to worry about. but i will say this, because it's really important. what we saw in the mobilization around the midterms because there was a fear of heightened violence is that we saw effective management of that

threat, so i think it's important to understand there are preparations taken both from the law enforcement side, but it's really important we have community leaders and organizers organizing with one another to simply counter as you point out that joe biden can't, which is to stand up and say it doesn't matter who you want to vote for, it doesn't matter what your politics are. none of us can survive in a democracy that says people can be armed and express their hate against anyone with violence because that's simply the opposite of democracy. it's some of what we're seeing happening and some of the things we have to see we're encouraging. >> let me get your thoughts on the gop politics. it is beyond a cult at this point. even some of them are vying for the same office and want to knock him out of the race.

you would think they would take the opportunity to slam him, get ahead in the polls, discredit him, but they continue to come to his defense in a freakish way. >> yeah. it's unbelievable. i -- you know, every time, right, and we've seen them do this again and again and again. i know they won't, but maybe just this time. in fact, they just won't. i mean even mike pence, even the quote, unquote brave republicans and i'm using that ironically, of course, say it's terrible to prosecute these crimes, you know, what is the justice department doing. i mean it's just unbelievable. even like senators like mike rounds from south dakota is out there saying the justice department is weaponized against donald trump. you know, there's a real opportunity here to not do this kind of thing, and republicans just cannot -- they just love the anchor of trump so much they cannot stop themselves. i don't know that they're scared

of the base or they see no way to win the primary without this space, but they're just driving away general election voters. >> all right. sorry, go ahead. >> and they deserve to. >> yeah, i mean it's beyond shameful at this point to see how they've all fallen in line. it doesn't look like they're going to get a backbone. katie benner, thank you so much. laurence tribe is back on the program to discuss the case that the special counsel's office has laid out, but first my friend richard lui is here. >> a very good evening to you. president biden has offered assistance to state officials. a tanker truck caused fire and caused the collapse. there are no injuries. two horses were euthanized in races at belmont park in new york this weekend. both horses had the same trainer and suffered leg injuries.

in total four horses have died at belmont's spring and summer races. and the former leader of scotland nikola sturgeon arrested into the investigation of the scottish national party. authorities allege over $750,000 raised to campaign for scottish independent back fwh in 2014 were diverted last year. we have more after this break. d. we have more after this break.

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i was shocked by the degree of sensitivity of these documents and how many there were, frankly, and so the government's agenda was to get those -- protect those documents and get them out, and i think it was perfectly appropriate to do that. it was the right thing to do, and i think the accounts under the espionage act that heelfully retained those documents are solid counts. >> that was donald trump's former attorney bill barr, the man who stood by his boss for two years, shielding him from legal accountability during his time in the trump administration. now even he thinks this indictment is, quote, very damning, and trump is toast, his word, by the way, not miechblt jack smith's office has made it clear he's seeking a speedy trial that upholds the law and

honors the right of the accused. to take us through how he might do that, i'm joined by laurence tribe, professor emirates. let's talk about reactions from folks like bill barr, a key trump ally in, you know, his time as, you know -- in his time as attorney general. you know, since this indictment was unsealed, people once pivotal are speaking out about the case. what has the case laid out so far? >> the case is devastating. it's very rare i find myself agreeing with bill barr. in this case it's not a matter of opinion. a matter of i oh sense, but i would encourage your viewers to

read the indictment. it's very easy to read filled with statements from trump's own mouth, reported statements, transcribed statements, statements by his own attorneys when the attorney/client privilege was held not applicable in this matter because he was using his attorneys to commit several felonies, felonies dangerous to all of us. he was essentially stockpiling information piles of weapons of mass destruction and showing people. the indictment goes through instances, two from bedminster where he showed top-secret documents, documents about military plans, how we would react if attacked, what are the military strengths and weaknesses of certain adversaries, stuff that he said out loud, this is top secret, i

shouldn't be showing you, but take a look, this is amazing. the defense may be a judge who is in the tank. i sure hope that's not true by judge cannon, but in my discussion with others that it's important to have a speed kr trial, i'm sure it is, but a judge can slow down a trial. it's not that i've got anything against eileen cannon personally. she's a nice woman, she's a smart woman. but the fact is that when she interfered with an earlier stage of this very case, the investigation, she was outside the coloring lines. i mean she was basically seizing

jurisdiction she didn't have and a unanimous conservative 11th circuit panel, two of whose members were appointed by donald trump slapped her down and criticized her for interfeinter. she certainly has the obligation to take herself off the case. the code says if anyone can reasonly question your impartiality, you have no business judging this case. unless she does that, we may not get a speedy trial. >> let me ask you about the defense for a moment because bill barr says he thinks the charges are solid but he didn't want to wait to see what a defense looks like. it's been a couple of days since the indictment was unsealed. is there anything you cannen vision playing with the law, whether it's the national presidential records act or something that the president could possibly make as a legal challenge to this?

>> no. it's very straightforward. the presidential records act, which the president at the cnn town hall kept saying, that protects me, to the contrary. the presidential records act was passed to prevent presidents like richard nixon from hoarding documents and require they be returned to the government is part of the reason why he's in such hot water. he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. so all he can do is try to delay. he can try to get judge cannon, who as i say has been very friendly to him in the past. he can try to get her to slow things down. he can try to get her to say even though there's already been authoritative adjudication, that all of the statements by his own attorney are admissible. he may try to get her to say, well, the statements are admissible, but you can't actually use the recorded transcript or something.

but none of those arguments -- and i thought very hard what they might be. the smoothest way to look at a case is to see what are the best arguments. i keep coming up empty. i don't think they have any good arguments. >> given how sensitive the material is here, some have talked about the classified information procedures act or what is known as sipa because it deals with the country's most sensitive secrets oop, it means there will be some limits on what can be said in order to ensure the government doesn't expose the national security information of the public? some of the really key evidence might never be accessible to the american people is. that a factor in this? how do you think sip pa will impact the trial and the reception of this case especially to people who as we know with donald trump and his defenders are skeptical of it, politicize it, tell you they're hiding information, they will

weaponize every as spectd of this trial to their advantage. >> that's a very good question because sipa is the government is going to enter this trial. the special counsel has already taken account of that because of the hundreds of top-secret documents. only 31 have been referenced here. they've carefully selected those that can either be exposed now without danger or can be shown to the judge and jurors in a closed courtroom, and i think they can navigate that. by the way, i think it's extremely important, though, it would be unusual, were this trial, unlike most federal trials to be televised in real time, because the only way we can -- especially with a judge

whose impartiality may not be very obvious t only way to satisfied justice has been done, the truth has been exposed, regardless of the very detective of guilty or not guilty is to have the public watch the trial. there will be moments when certain information has to be redacted. that's normal. but much of what the indictment reveals is not top secret. the indictment ascribes the intent to hide the material, lie to the government about whether material marked top secret had already been turned over. all of that can be introduced, but it's critical, and i think the chief justice of the united states has an obligation to make an exception through the judicial conference to the usual blockouts that accompany trials. when eileen cannon, who looks

like she's going to be presiding over this case, went through the bizarre exercise of appointing a master, she was anything but transparent. she wouldn't even aloe what was going on in the courtroom until at the end of the day there would be a readout. this trial has got to be transparent. otherwise we're not as a nation going to be able to assure ourselves that in this extremely important context where he was essentially stockpiling the materials of potential treason as it was put in the wonderful essay of books that came out just a day ago, in a circumstance like that, the nation has a right to watch, not just a few reporters who got to sit in the courtroom. >> transparency is going to be the key disinfectant surrounding the lies that support this

trial. professor, thank you for your insights. up next, donald trump's unhinged republican defenders. s unhinged republican defenders. i) (♪ ♪) (♪ ♪) where could reinvention take your business? accenture. let there be change.

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the great irony of donald trump's trial is he ee's now been charged of crimes he accused hillary clinton of committing back in 2016. in fact, trump singing quite a different tune back then and our esteemed counsel took note. this is based on trump quotes cited in the indictment. >> i'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. >> we can't have someone in the oval office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "confidential" or "classified." >> one of the first things we

must do is enforce all classification rules. >> we also need the best protection of classified information. >> now trump and his republican allies in congress have completely flipped the script now. i mean, all you've got to do is look at these two, jim jordan, lindsey graham just this morning. >> i go on the president's word. he can classify, he can control access. he has the sole thought. >> did he do things wrong? yes, he may have. he'll be tried about that. but hillary clinton wasn't. is that going to change my support for donald trump. >> it's almost like they never truly cared about hillary clinton ice emails and just used them to help get trump elected. if you have an "r" next to your name, you can misshandle all the classified documents you wand and jordan and graham are going to be there to shield you from accountability. maya and molly are back. my full circle moment of trump

being accused of the same charges he leveled against clinton in 2016. >> trump never used an argument that didn't help him and consistency was never an issue, ever. always what works for me in the moment, that's what i'm going to do. he saw a political moment with hillary clinton and her emails, but what's so fascinaing is it shows up directly in the indictment. in the indictment he's actually suggesting to his attorney who he's trying to get to lie or lose documents or do anything possible to keep him from having to turn it over at least in terms of the tapes we have been told the attorney turned over to the justice department and in that he makes explicit reference to, you know, they just lost 30,000 emails, can't we just lose them?

he suggests repeatedly to his attorney this strategy he now believes worked for hillary clinton, which was the exact same thing he was on that stp utilizing to ask voters to vote for him in 2016. the other thing is what it does in the indictment. he can't say he didn't believe that national security was important. he can't say that the very documents that are described in the indictment as having information so classified because it gave away information about our vulnerabilities to attack as a country. so it's very hard to understand how anybody, any politician who says that they're for national security, that they believe in a strong military, that they are the tough on crime party can actually look at this and make the statements that we're hearing including ignoring the very inconsistency and what's in

the indictment with what trump said in 2016. >> yeah. the law and order paernlt doesn't care about the law when it comes to donald trump. molly, what do you make of the u-turn we've seen from folks like jim jordan, lindsey graham about classified materials. we know they're looking at it. to watch jim jordan try to declassified that document was probably the most awkward, cringe-worthy things i've seen in a long time. >> dana bash said, you don't make any sense. none of this makes any sense. his argument was basically she can't do it because she's secretary of state but he could do it because he was president. the point is they'll do anything to defend donald trump. again, it's this weird mobius strip. you have republicans defending trump because they're scared of the base, maybe losing it,

alienating it, maybe they're scared of the base hurting them, and then the base decides if republicans are sticking with them, they're going to stick with him too. and i think that they're sort of in a spin cycle of misery for themselves, which, again, they totally deserve. but it is interesting, and i don't know when this -- when or how this fever breaks. >> all right. maya wiley and molly jong-fast, thank you. still to come, how we got to this moment of a second trump indictment. stay with us. a second trump indictment stay with us

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to understand this moment donald trump finds himself in, you have to understand how we got here, so we want to cut through the noise and review the major actions that trump and his associates took to bring him to this moment. indicted for the second time in just three months. do that, we need to begin a few

days before trump leaves office. january 2021, according to the special counsel's indictment, trump and his white house staff packed items, including some of trump's boxes, in preparation for his departure from the white house. the indictment says that trump was personally involved in this process. at 12:00 p.m. on january 20th, 2021, donald trump ceases to be president. as he leaves the white house, the documents we now know that contained classified materials were transferred to mar-a-lago. they were stored on a stage in one of mar-a-lago's gilded ballroom and then moved to a shower and stacked near a toilet. they're then moved to the business center and then to the bathroom and shower, stacked next to a toilet.

trump directs employees to clean out a storage room in a highly accessible area on mar-a-lago's ground floor so it can be used to store his boxes. trump also directed some boxes he brought to his bedminster, new jersey, residence. the national archives asks that trump turn over any presidential records he may have kept. those requested were repeated for months. trump allegedly showed a military plan of attack that he says is highly confidential to a writer interviewing him at bedminster. trump remarks as president i could have declassified it. now i can't. fast forward to november 2021. trump directs his executive assistant and body man walt nada and another employee to start moving boxes from a storage room in "morning joe" to his residence room to review. in late december 2021, a trump

representative tells the national archives 12 boxes of records have been found. the following month trump turns over 15 boxes to the agency. the boxes are bound. they are found to contain 197 documents. on may 11th the grand jury issue as s&p to trump and his office requiring that they turn over all classified materials still in their possession. less than two weeks later trump balks at cooperating. prosecutors citing notes from one of trump's lawyers say trump wondered alouding asking about

the subpoena, what if we told them we don't have anything here. at the end of may walt nauta was interviewed by prosecutors and repeatedly lies about the removal of boxes at mar-a-lago. they then visit mar-a-lago and find 38 declassified documents from trump's lawyer. two months later on august 5th, the gist it is department applies for a warrant to search mar-a-lago citing a probable cause that additional records of classified documents were still being stored there. a judge approves the application the same day. and three days later, the fbi searches mar-a-lago and seizes 102 classified documents, and then we fast forward to november 15th, 2022. donald trump announces that he's running for president again, and three days late e november 18th, attorney general merrick garland announces the appointment of special counsel jack smith. in if beginning of january of this year and continuing for the

next few months, several trump aides and allies are called to appear before the grand jury in washington. and then on june 5th trump and his lawyers go to meet with senior officials including jack smith to discuss the status of the case. three days later, june 8th, grand jury in miami indicts donald trump and walt nauta. on june 9th, the indictment is made public and it shows that trump is now charged with 37 felony counts and nauta is charged with six. and that brings us to today, the moment in which we find ourselves. and on tuesday, june 13th, trump is scheduled to make an initial court appearance at 3:00 p.m. at the federal courthouse in miami, florida. that is how we got to donald trump being indicted twice in three months. where we go from here, only time will tell. we'll be right back. only time will tell. we'll be right back.

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politico, donald trump said this about his latest indictment. nobody wants to be indicted. i don't care that my poll numbers went up a lot. i don't want to be indicted. i've never been indicted. i went through my whole life and now i get indicted every two months. joining me now is a guest who served on donald trump's

impeachment trial. thank you for joining us. what went through your mind as you read this indictment? >> i was stunned actually. we've been reading the news reports, but the pictures of the classified documents in the ballroom that was open to the public, the spillage with classified daumts, it was just jaw-dropping. this wasn't charged, but we would be naive to think our adversaries don't have agents in mar-a-lago. anybody can go in. all you need is some money. there's no security or clearances needed to be a guest at a wedding and be close to these documents. so this is really -- this is terrible. >> what do you make of the knee-jerk response's reaction we've seen of most elected republicans, particularly your house colleagues like andy bigs

telling people to buckle up. >> it's un-american. it comes close to inciting violence, but given those two members, i must admit it's not a huge surprise. mr. biggs certainly played a role in the events leading up to riot on january 6th. you know, the leadership gave statements saying, you know, undercutting the system of justice, undercutting our american government before the indictment was even released was very disappointing. apparently they're reading the talking points. they don't care about defending our country, they're oriented toward this one man. not the constitution, not the system of government. i think it really causes me to question their patriotism. >> let me ask you specifically about kevin mccarthy, speaker mccarthy. he plans to hold this, quote,

brazen weapon of power accountable and mccarthy sent this tweet up before the indictment was unsealed. why this rush to judgment when he didn't even have the facts, you think? >> well, you'd have to ask kevin, of course, but i think, you know, some operative wrote up the talking points, distributed it to all the republican members, and that's what they said. they didn't care about the facts or the law. so it's very disappointing. you know, it doesn't bode well for the country that some of the leaders would basically try and undercut our system of justice just to support one man. it's not the way we should act. >> trump has said he won't back out of the race even if he is convicted. i have a two-parter for you. are you concerned that trump might try to pardon himself if he wins in 2024 or requires a running mate to promise to

pardon him if he's required to resign or do you think this is going to be a referendum on this particular issue in the 2024 race? >> well, i think it's a certainty that he would pardon himself if he's convicted. i don't think there's any scenario where he wouldn't do that. obviously he has a right to run for president and he is running for president. you know, we had a nonmainstream candidate in the '20s who ran from jail, so there's at least some precedent. but there's so many questions about what would happen if he's convicted. i had my staff pull out some of the recent sentence, you know, since 2015, and the only person that jumped out, general petraeus, had -- was given probation, but that was a single

document. actually most were more modest than this, substantial things. there's a lot of implications through this. i hope we can get through this as a country. i think all of us in the elected office need to get a grip, defend the united states, not undercut our country as some of them are doing. >> you and others laid out evidence against trump and his supporters to attack the capitol. are you concerned he may take a similar action to incite supporters if he is convicted against our institutions? >> well, of course. i mean some of his rhetoric is not that different from the rhetoric leading up to the january 6th insurrection. he clearly does not care about

the rule of law or our constitution. in fact, he indicated he would suspend the constitution in some parts if he were re-elected. so this is a man who's far from the history of presidents, whatever party, whatever political persuasion, he is not ready to adhere to the rule of law or to defend the constitution of the united states. a big threat to our country. >> i said it before and i say it again, donald trump continues to do irreparable damage to this country even since leaving office. congresswoman zoe lofgren, i appreciate your time. thank you for making time for us. make sure to catch "ayman" back here on saturdays at 8:00, sundays at 9:00. follow us on twitter. and rachel rah dal leads msnbc's

special coverage at 8:00 p.m. and it's streaming on peacock. i'm ayman mohyeldin in new york. have a good night. n in new york. have a good night. ♪ feels more easy. ♪ ♪ my doc and i agreed. ♪ ♪ i pick the time. ♪ ♪ today's a good day. ♪ ♪ i screened with cologuard and did it my way! ♪ cologuard is a one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ i did it my way! ♪

he's not a victim here. he was totally wrong that he had the right to have the documents. the documents are among the most sensitive secrets the country has. they have to be in the custody